Robert Hanna on Legal Innovation, Podcasting & the Power of Human Connection

Look, collaboration is domination. So the more people you can collaborate with, the more impact you can do to amplify. [Music] [Music] Welcome back to Super Entrepreneurs Podcast. I'm your host, Shahed Dani. The show where we dive into the minds of high-erforming entrepreneurs, innovators, and worldclass leaders. If you're someone who's always looking to grow, push limits, think, and do bigger, you're in the right place. Today, we have Robert Hannah. Rob is the founder and managing director of KC Partners, a global leader in legal talent solutions. He's also the host of the acclaimed legal speaking podcast where he explores the dynamic world of law with industry leaders and innovators. Rob is also deeply committed to advancing mental health awareness, diversity, and inclusion within the legal profession. He gets his inspiration from his grandfather's legacy as the pioneering lawyer in the 1950s. Rob, it's a pleasure to have you on the show, my friend. Right back at you. I'm a big fan of the show and really appreciate the the warm introduction and even how we're kicking the tires off air and I think that's the beauty of podcasting, right? You get to really connect with people and yeah, I love it. Love your energy. Love your show. Pleasure to be here. Oh, yeah. Same here. It was great. Right off the bat, when you meet someone right before the recording, you just know it's going to be a phenomenal episode. The energy speaks so much louder than the words can ever. So yeah, I'm grateful to have you on the show and see how we can add value here. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm very much in your hands, but I always say everything is energy. I think if you can put everything into it, same here. And it's reciprocated and I think that's really been we'll probably touch into entrepreneurship and all of that good stuff. I think it's the energy that really is almost a superpower in some respects. Yeah. And so do you find are you aware that depending on your energy levels throughout your career, throughout your life? if you're a young guy, but I'm just saying throughout your career, did you notice as your energy levels elevated, your success elevated, or did you notice a connection between how you felt, how you were energized, and what you were doing? Yeah, I think now as I'm late 30s, one thing I have noticed is I need to put more in to keep the energy levels that I had when I was in my sort of early career of my 20s and building and starting businesses etc etc. But it's now as of today coming on to this podcast my my energy levels are the same but I'm making sure that I'm doing the run. I'm looking after myself. I'm putting all the work in to ensure that I can keep those energy levels nice and high. And the other thing I always say you've got radio be that mentors, be that family, people that you look up to who can coach, teach, bring good energy your way. That's super helped. So I learned quite early on into my journey of business that I want to be around a lot more radiators than people that necessarily drain your energy. So that's been super important for me. Cool. Yeah, for me I shifted that all around. what you're saying I completely agree with because your environment has a lot to do with the type of energy that you hold because it influence you but what I did and the people that we work with what we do is we shift that focus from outside to internally. So when we shift the focus internally we only concentrate on the energy levels within. So we amplify the feelings, the thoughts, the feelings and we amplify how we feel in our body in momentby-moment basis throughout the day. We practice it like a sport. And then what we do is then we interact with others not having them allow them to have an impact on my emotional state but respecting and dealing with them just from a gap if that makes sense. Now things can become sometimes chaotic, but you're just step away and you're dealing with life from that gap and it just makes everything more easier because now you're a beacon for goodness because you just feel phenomenal and then you experience that phenomenal around you in experiences because you start seeing the circumstances situations they start shifting to match that energy. Yeah. And I think it's almost setting and protecting your boundaries. And a mentality very early on is have a concrete mindset. And so the more like to you're saying setting that distance, setting that sort of that for me is like what I call a concrete mindset in terms of I'm not prepared to let these sort of maybe a ne because every idea and what you're saying off air as well. You're one crazy idea away from a very successful business, a very successful we were just talking about. Yeah. the one that we're not going to share that's highly under NDA from both of us. I usually share everything, but I out of respect for you because you're in a legal world and I want to be very careful. Yeah, I've already got the word NDA in there. What am I talking about? But no, I think I'm a big believer in be around big thinkers, different thinkers, innovators, because most people will think your ideas suck. And if you look at any breakthrough technology, you look at any breakthrough business, logically they don't make sense. but they make sense to the people that have these big ideas and visions and carry it through. So yeah, I'm a big advocate for if you're get around a lot of people that say those ideas aren't right, those aren't ideas are right, don't do that, never do that, never do that. Maybe some of them might be right, but you might want to also go in a room where certain people have an open mind to build on an idea. Yeah. Yeah. I'm also impressed how you're trailblazing the podcasting world when it comes to legal profession. Can you share what inspired you to start that podcast? It's a it's very dear to me. what I did and this pivot I did during co but I just wondering if there's a story behind your podcast. Yeah. And if you'll just humor me for a moment just to put some context. You very kindly gave an overview at the beginning. I guess why I do all of this have a podcast this that and the other is it does go back to my late grandfather as you referenced there and I'll just share a very quick story. Many years ago when I was a young kid I went to his house and he would have been 10 15 years postretirement at this stage. So he'd ran his law firm, retired, exited, and every year I'd go and there'd be more and more Christmas cards delivered to his house. And I'd say to my grandfather at the time, "Wow, I didn't realize you had that many friends." And he would say, "They're not all friends." And I said, "Who's sending you Christmas cards?" He said, "Clients." And I was like, "But you retired 15 years ago." And he says, "Yes, but these are clients thanking me for the work that I've done and the generations beneath them's children that have been grateful for the work that my firm did, updating me on when they're having children, grandchildren, all the amazing work that the firm did for them and help them throughout their journeys." And that really stuck with me and that was in an offline world and I knew that one day I wanted to set up some entrepreneurial I wanted to carry on that entrepreneurial flare and indeed carry that legacy in legal. And so 2016 I set up a legal recruiting business. But I know very early on that being an early entrance and new entrance into that market, I needed to do something which was different, which was new, which was alternative. So we became the first UK legal recruiting podcast. Okay. So we launched that very early late 2018 because people were like, what's a podcast? What is this? Like particularly over here, we're always behind the US anyway and Canada. So it's nice to nice to be early to something. And I use that as a thought leadership tool to business develop to get out there. But also principally because I have a mission which we call is to inspire legal minds and transform legal futures. I'm I'm leaving a digital legacy, a traceable legacy. My daughter one day wants to go and see what dad did when he was on Shahed's great podcast or when he was doing this when I was collaborating with Gary Vaynerchuk on a LinkedIn live or whatever it might have been that I was doing that she can go and reference that and it's there because that's the only thing that I can't at the moment is it's only in my mind from those memories but I can't go and search anything because I was in an offline world. So my purpose is linked back to continue that legacy to do well to influence and inspire people in the legal community but in an forward innovative different fashion. So we were the first legal show to do web three to look at some creator coins to go into discord to gify the show to bring Carol Baskin from Tiger King on at the time when Netflix was the most Tiger King was the most watched show in the world and link that to the legal audience. So we're always pushing boundaries, doing interesting things. But that's really the wise. I want to carry that legacy on in legal and just beyond your family, beyond your kids, even generations, great grandkids, right? They're going to be also looking at this and also people that are out there part of the show, you will just evolve with them as generations progress. Because with AI, who really knows if this will ever end because the AI is going to become more and more intelligent. So even when we pass on, who knows what will happen. I'm not saying the end result, but I'm just saying that there might be a potential where we live on to add value in a more artificial way that still gives a good punch or good value punch to people, but it because it's evolving, is getting is understanding it way better, it's becoming more intelligent, is providing more value where it's needed at that time because everything can shift in time. So, we don't know where this is going to go. And I'm very similar to you with this show. I struggle so much in business and I see so many people very frustrated especially people that go into business from 9 to5 they were thinking that it's something glamorous and they and I was the same way thought it would be easy and I was working double the time that I did at a job and I and there's a lot of people out there like that they don't realize it's the internal that needs to shift to make the outside different so that's why trying to bring that voice out but on top of that my kids because with kids is just it's different relationships with kids, parents like you can try to coach them but say dad or blah blah you know what I mean it's oh again you're going to say that again it's different that when people want help when they ask for help is completely different but later on as kids mature they start grabbing that that internal value they have for their parent and what they did and I'm hoping you know the content is going to be out there I'm hoping they're going to watch it and gain some knowledge to what they need to do wisdom what they need to do internally from all these wonderful people all over the world sharing their vision, sharing their message to help them make it create a better comfortable life because everything on the outside is going to be chaotic but we need to be more stable within and that's what I'm hoping with the show. Yeah. And I think you're doing a tremendous job with the guests that you're bringing on and and the way that you're obviously creating huge reach and that's one of the beautiful things of podcasting. And if I go back to my journey to the question you said there was a huge COI which I call everyone think focuses on ROI which is obviously return on investment but cost of inaction I think is so important to consider and cost of inaction good there would have been a real cost like we wouldn't starting the podcast to be as a feeder to my legal recruiting business which now has helped in terms of candidates come to us clients come to us we can engage we can build community but then it's moved into now it's a legal media like probably of your show you have sponsors you have we're lucky that we started from in a room nobody listening to us being top 1% in the world. We're sponsored by a three billion dollar the world's largest legal tech company in Cleo and we've retained that relationship since 2021 through to now I invest in legal tech businesses and so none of that would have happened none of these opportunities LinkedIn top voice helping LinkedIn with product rollouts getting into businesses fast growth businesses sitting at the table none of that would have happened if I'd have focused on the ROI I focused on there's a real opportunity and I don't want that COI to go missing so anyone sat there particularly when you talk about AI because none of us can predict. I think it's I think it's crazy if anyone thinks they can look into a crystal ball because AI is what when you get super intelligence, they're already going to be bigger and better than the human brain. So, no one living on this planet can actually currently tell you what it's going to look like. If we can have educated guests and opinions, and of course, that's a scary thought, particularly someone, you know, we're bringing children into this world. But, you got to think about it. If you're thinking about a business now and it's a crazy idea in your head, I encourage you to get in a room where you're around people that will actually flesh out that idea more because we're living in a world of a value pyramid with AI. So technology is coming in. So imagine technology is coming through the pyramid. So you look at a lot of things. Let's use legal as an example. The world that I'm in, I recruit for technology is coming in that can do basic level research that can do first level drafting with generative AI now. So unless you're as a lawyer or whatever profession you are, doctor, accountant, unless you're moving your value proposition up this pyramid, then you do run the risk of potentially AI taking over or indeed adapting and reshaping that role. So you've got to ensure when you're looking at these crazy ideas that I encourage everyone to think about that it's going to be ahead of this kind of pyramid that I see and the way I describe it. I really like the cost of inaction. And the COI is is amazing. And what we do when you add value to others is you're participating in a law that the Emerson called the law of laws. The law of cause and effect. Y when you focus on adding value, when you focus on doing good for others, automatically as a side effect, goodness comes your way. Hey, I know a lot of people don't believe this, but man, if you just practice it, if you just give it a shot, if people are genuinely go that route and we focus on others, ultimately we see that coming not from that person. You don't really expect it from that person, but it comes from various areas. And the partnerships that you made and the sponsor is so amazing. I didn't really hustle to go and find global PR agencies and firms to work with us and all that. I didn't it just came. I'm not trying to see it's how many views I'm going to get, how many downloads I'm going to get. I'm just doing my best. What we could do is take something from you, give it to the people so we can impact together. We can impact a life. Even if we impact one life, hey, that's good, man. Good day. It's amazing. And look, collaboration is domination. So the more people you can collaborate with the more impact you can do to amplify and what you're doing and similar to me is you're trying to be authentic and you shouldn't we are being authentic and that's where people that's where you can build trust and you can build relationships and you can we're no longer in this friends of mine describe it as B2B B toC it's no longer that it's H to H it's human to human connection it's how can we increase that human connection and love it I think it's really important that people understand that don't just be straight out for what's the immediate win for me. Put good things out to the world and you will attract your tribe and you can speak to that. I can speak to that. And I can tell you the other thing that's really important, luckily enough, I've been in sales and done deals and you can do millions of pounds of deals and all of this great stuff. But the intrinsic value you get from saying, "Hey, I just listened to that piece of podcast Rob you did and that helped me get that piece of wisdom that got a job application." That for me is like the intrinsic value you get from building community, putting things out there is it's just good for the soul. And that's something to me and you look at to the legacy piece and you think that's doing the job. I'm doing the job. Yes, of course you need to make sure that whatever you're doing in business, if you're for profofit, you need to get the numbers right. But I tell you once you get to a stage in business, that intrinsic value is a worth 10fold. Yeah. Man, we can I love this because I just another idea just came to mind about our idea that we talked about in the beginning when you were speaking. I'm sorry if I probably missed some of it because my mind went to the idea. You never want to do that right before you record a podcast about a phenomenal idea. But anyway, a unicorn idea, but hey, you know what? Yeah, it just hits you, right? The ideas keep coming afterwards. It's like you just tapped into a connection of some source just keeps downloading information. But no, it's phenomenal. I'm grateful to met you, man. And some of my most incredible relationships I'm building is through this podcast all over the world. and genuine. It's what can I do for you kind of attitude and is I'm so grateful to attract people like you into my life and I just want to share share a thank you with you right to that we met and how we met and how you came on this show and everything is just little things that have happened dots that have been connected to make this happen right now but I'm just grateful overall for this opportunity especially for what you're doing for other people because the heartto-heart is so important that we more of it and we're seeing more of it especially since co is there's a lot more focus from the macho to more to love and the love is a foundational energy that is phenomenally powerful once you tap into it once your heart is filled with it and you just good things just keep happening and this is another example but another question I have for you can you share some innovative strategies that you have implemented that helped you grow the firm in this competitive market. Yeah, I think let's use the podcast as so originally the podcast that I started was you imagine I'm I didn't come from a legal recruiting background. I came from procurement, energy, supply chain. So I had about 10 years and I was a director in other business. But remember go back to my why. I wanted to do something in legal. So, I got to the stage where I was like, I want to set up a legal business and use my talent and skills, which at the time was that talent solutions recruiting. And I knew very early on that I can't compete and ring up a partner of a law firm or an owner of a law firm and say, "Hey, I'm I can help you with legal recruitment." Because they're like, "We've been using the guys down the road for 15 years. They placed the last 100 people with us. We've got great terms. They're amazing. We know them. We trust them. We like them. They're everything we ever wanted. You've just started. Why should we speak to you?" And right that's an extreme example but that's where the reality is right and so I was thinking what could I do differently in the early late 20s like I said in terms of that sort of 2017 thinking about things 2018 started and it was like why don't I switch the narrative rather than calling these people and saying can you help me why don't I ring them and by the way legal is very behind in terms of because regulated there's risk lawyers jumping on podcast way back when it's not quite as you know now it's obviously a lot more common but back then there was still a what's a podcast what do I need to think So, I would I would rather reach out to them. I'd say, "Hey, I'd love to I'd like to switch up the way that you go about talent attraction. And I'd like to do this with just 20 minutes of your time at my office with coffee and biscuits where I'll record 20 minutes asking everything about you, your show, I mean, your practice, why you're great to work for, your career journey, the challenges, the opportunities, and you'll have a wonderful experience. I just need 20 minutes of your time at my office, which is only 2 minutes away from around the corner. And through that 20 minutes, I will produce six months worth of content for you that you can pass on to your marketing team for free in the form of blog post, short form videos, SEO compliant blogs, articles, shorts for YouTube, Tik Tok, Instagram, etc., etc. That will reach out exponentially, which is going to work way better than your current marketing strategy from your law firm. Also create some bespoke job descriptions or talent attractions descriptions that are different and alternative that will make your opportunity as and when you're hiring or if you're talent pooling over your competitors that are offering the same money, the same opportunity as you with the similar clients. This is going to help you stand out. How does that sound to you? So it's oh by the way I'm going to put your voice in six and a half thousand cities around the world a podcast get exponential reach. It's very hard to say no go away. It's like a really powerful offer, right? Yeah. It's a loaded, it's a triple loaded value ad and then they don't really know at this point. So, they come and they do this. We do this amazing thing and then we just do some follow-ups. And by the way, if you're ever looking and then of course we're top of mind, right? We're top of mind for when they're hiring. We've given them all of this great stuff. It's a great entry point. So, I think that was the most innovative business development strategy of all time. And then you come in with even and then when you're like, how do you get it better? Let's go and get the world's best legal technology company that's on an aggressive growth drive to then go and business develop further. So when we're talking to partners and more podcasts come about. What's our USP? We've got exponential reach now because we're partnering with the world's best legal tech company and we've got an overarching bigger mission. We're helping when it comes to diversity, equity, inclusion, which your law firm clearly states that you're passionate about. We're helping when it comes to mental health. We're also helping with the almost multi is a multi-billion dollar access to justice gap issue where legal technology can reduce that for good access to justice so people who can't afford legal services get the work. So again, you're coming in with value ad when podcast become that's just another podcast with different angles, different things, different value proper propositions. When that partner in law firm isn't just another partner on a show, they're part of a community that's adding value to broader prospect to a bigger reach, bigger opportunity, then you get the world's best law firm owners on, then you get certain people coming on and all of these amazing things. But yeah, it's thinking strategically. It's putting yourselves in the shoes of the people that you're trying to approach. So that's probably been our most innovative business development strategy where we're so early out the gate and now we welcome competitor organizations and you see them set up and try and do similar things that we do but we're already thinking about what's next. So it's you're now at level one podcasting. We're like okay we're here. We've moved into experimental events. We've moved into monster trucks outside on beaches to bring in experential bigger brands, bigger scope, bigger audiences doing fun different things. We've just taken the show to Dubai. We just did some interviews on yachts with some of the most prestigious people in the legal world. We're off to IA. We're going to Koala Lumpa. We're taking the show on a world tour. We're always like to stay at number one and to have the best, you got to be the best, right? You got to keep momentum. It's like the flywheel effect. So, if anyone's read the book Good to Great by Jim Collins. It's a great book, but basically it's all about harnessing momentum. He talks about this flywheel. Once you start a business, you need to keep energy inputs to keep inputting energy like we talked about before. And the more that you can impoke the energy, the more the momentum builds and builds and you keep going and you're never going to go that way. Whereas certain companies, they make a bad hire or they make a bad decision and suddenly they start that momentum fades. So just have good energy people, be good with your quality hiring, have good people around you. And so we're always thinking about that, always innovating. So yeah, a few different directions there, but hopefully that adds some value. No, it was great. Wonderful answer. It's getting those kind of details in your answers is very important for the audience obviously to understand the context of what you're saying and the key word the key component there is that you were you're thinking big. Yeah. to make those kind of partnerships. And unfortunately, if we start our day and end our day with comparing ourselves to others or if we're negative or we just dwelling over what has happened in the past, it's really hard. It's very difficult to allow the mind to come up with these bigger ideas because you're scraping stuff on the surface. Your energy is down here and you want to be up here but you're operating down here. It's very hard to go there and you create momentum. We need to shift the way we see our business and ourselves first. It's internal work to create that momentum. When you create that momentum, we start calming the mind. When we start calming the mind, we come up with some bigger, greater ideas. And we don't fear because we believe. And we approach people that might otherwise seem, "Oh my god, they'll never work with me. your confidence speaks a lot more when it comes to those kind of relationships and yeah and again everything that I do is COI back to COI cost of an action so people will be like why is the guy gone out to Dubai and suddenly done this whole series and spent a week there doing this on his podcast when it's already global off the back of that we've only like four episodes into releasing that we've got some of the top three names in the legal tech space in the region that are now not just doing something in Dubai but want to do something in the United Arab Emirates and the Mina region with us again not bothering to think different to do things differently and a lot of people with these ideas I don't know if you've heard James Clear speak but I think I've done a lot of keynotes and listen to a lot of keynotes but I listened to one of his keynotes actually at our podcast sponsors events in Austin Texas and he talks a lot about replace goals with systems so I'll give a very simple example let's say your goal is to run a marathon that's a great goal but how are you going to get there so he talks about small habits 1% daily so if you want to run that marathon Start by putting your trainers by your front door every day. That's a cue. It's a cue because if you walk past those trainers every day and you don't put them on, you don't decide to run. Then you know how are you going to reach that goal? Then you might want to start having a straa app for example which gives you a pop-up reminder. Yeah. And so you in back to this kind of inputs, energy inputs. And so have systems. Everything that I do is I've got a system in place to make sure that we're going to go towards the goal because crazy ideas are great but then let's get to actually understanding right what systems processes and by the way AI is a game changer for all this. You can leverage AI to the hills for this in terms of even finessing the idea but then putting in AI agents and all of this great stuff to to really make it work. So yeah, I would encourage your audience to to go and check that out a little bit more and and replace goals with systems and you'll see a lot more success. Yeah. And then believe in achieving that goal. Believe in yourself, you know, shift that self-t talk from impossible to possible because it really is that the human committed decision is super power like super powerful for individual human being to once we make that committed decision, it's very hard to stop that person. Nothing will get in their way when they really believe. I absolutely agree. You have to have selfacountability in business and entrepreneurship. I remember a guy said to me very early on, "If it's meant to be, it's up to me." So, it's so important that you have this idea or you're going to push through like you're going to have setbacks. So, everything we're selling is all rosy and lovely. The reality is like I'm getting hit by setback. I was about to close quite a good deal yesterday and it just fell out of bed. It fell out of bed and it was six months of work and it would have been a great deal and made the year and I could easily have just said, "You know what? It's their fault. They've not given me all the facts." Fall into that trap, right? Yeah. And if it's meant to be, it's up to me. So then what do I immediately do? I then go into a radiator. I go and read a mentor straight away. I go and ring someone that I trust, the voice to get good energy inputs, get that people around me because otherwise you can get into dwelling. And so the reality is most of these ideas, amazing businesses, they go through so many hard times that Yeah. Yeah. Just keep that self accountability. If you've got that self-belief, that belief to achieve, you'll make it happen. But remember, if it's mentally, it's up to me. So important. Yeah. You started mental health and diversity in the legal field. Can you see how that's going to impact the legal field in the future? Yeah. This is where I talk about tech for good. Historically within the legal industry, it's been a charge by hour. So if anyone's instructed a lawyer, an attorney over the years, they're probably paying by the hour. And where I see is hopefully that billing model will eventually move to a value a value based pricing model or fixed fee model or whatever it would mean. But when law firms run billable hours and they're trying to compete on billable hours, what they're ultimately doing is getting their lawyers to work lots of hours, right? To increase that profitability. So there's lots of stress. There's demands on that. You get overworked. N when I started the the legal recruiting, I was amazed how many people would say, "Yeah, I'm working on a Saturday. I'm working on a Sunday." Not their own firm for someone. I've had to miss my daughter's wedding because that's an extreme example, but I can't go to this and this. But that's the reality. There is a lot of stress, pressure. Obviously, it's a very important role being a lawyer. When most people go to a lawyer, typically I believe that technology can actually be a huge enabler of removing a lot of that leg work, those the due diligence, the hours of research, the hours of drafting. And so hopefully that will improve the overall work life balance, the overall less levels of stress, worry, anxiety, many things. And we've had something we've had a and I'd highly encourage people to have a look at an organization called Law Care. We've had the CEO of Law Care, which one of the biggest mental health charities, and their CEO come on to our show and talk about the amazing work they do, and it still amazes me. She even says after 17 years or 18 years of being there, the amount of lawyers that ring her up are just like at breaking point. And so, you just think this could and I know it's not just unique to lawyers and there's a very every industry and by the way, we all have a health. I know we talk about mental health, physical health, but it's health. And this is the important thing that I want to stress. And we're all different. We what might be a worry for me might not be a worry for you and vice versa. And I'm and so I think the work that they're doing and the work that we try to do to collaborate with people to amplify that message to let people know there is help and support and resources out there is very important. And equally on diversity, equity, inclusion, myself, I'm half Iraqi, half English. I think the legal profession is doing better, but there's still more work to be done in terms of the the number of people that are actually at the top of the law firms. I think it's not as diverse as it could be. There's lots of data and statistics to back that comment up as well and I'm happy to share with your listeners a lot more details. We want to ensure that we're bringing conversations and also the thought leaders and the people that have done it to share their experiences, but we also partner with lots of organizations doing great work within the DE and I spaces as well. And I think it's yeah, it's only a positive and more diverse thought you can have. The more law firms, legal firms will will flourish basically. And so I'm passionate about it. Awesome, man. I hear your passion. I know everyone's going to experience that passion and I want to say thank you so much for giving me or giving us your time and sharing your wisdom. We'll do what we can to expand your voice as far as we can. and I'm looking forward to building something strong here and see how I can help. But yeah, it was great talking to you today. Yeah, and likewise and you're obviously an amazing host and it's a great show. And I guess I'll just leave with probably my my favorite quote for anyone when it comes to business. The magic you're looking for is in the work you're avoiding. I think if you can really met that land, beautiful, it will change everything. There's something in your life right now that's in the kind of need to do or I want to do and there's the magic. So the magic you're looking for is in the work you're avoiding. If you take that head on, I guarantee you'll move a lot more forward. Yeah. Go towards the discomfort. That's where the gold is waiting. My life has shifted because I became comfortable with being uncomfortable. The reason why I do that is is because it does open up a new level of energy in a person. Thank you so much for sharing that. No. And I'd like to make an offer as well. If anyone likes my hoodie, if anyone shares one lesson that they've got from this episode today, tags me and tags leagues podcast, we will choose the favorite one and we'll send them out a free hoodie. Beautiful. Thank you so much, Rob. Great offer. [Music]