The Candace Owens Show: Andrew Klavan | Candace Owens Show

okay okay we are rolling in to another episode of the Candice Owens show do you consider yourself to be a free speech purist or do you simply like me consider yourself to be a free speech enthusiast where do we draw the line or do we draw a line at all when it comes to free speech I know personally being a public figure it's really hard to wake up every day and read things about you that are untruths to know that there is no responsibility whatsoever for reporters and journalists to make up patent lies here to discuss all things free speech with me Andrew Clavin host of the Andrew Clavin show and author of another Kingdom welcome to McKenna's Owen show so great to be here I know I we have to start by telling people our backstory because people don't know I know so I saw you online I don't know how many hits you had but it wasn't that long now and I thought there she is that's that woman who really has got it but I have to tell you this is this is my special gift that's my superpower you know I found Jordan Peterson when he had 600 hits and had him on my show I found you when you were there I put Michael Noel's on my child will probably go to hell for that but no I've had a bunch of people III you know I grew up in broadcasting my father was a fairly famous New York DJ he was a famous New York DJ it wasn't a famous national DJ but it was a famous New York TV and I can spot a good broadcaster from a million miles away really when Ben Shapiro did that morning show I had never heard him before I would bump into Bennett functions and shake his hand say hi and all this stuff and one day I heard him on the air and I called him up and I said you know you are a big radio broadcasting talent and he was like well thanks thanks to me you know but but a couple years later he was a big radio broadcasting console I've got a I've got an eye yeah people should be paying attention your show to see what up-and-coming talent was I was little more a nobody let's see I was nobody I had made a couple of YouTube videos didn't really know where it was going to land and you were the first phone call was you and Dave Rubin and you invited me on your show first and I just talked about my vision for black America and everything that I believed and it was such such a great episode and now we're two two years later two years I know two years later and things have sort of exploded and now I have the opportunity to have you on my show how was that that's great it is great but but you had a special thing and everybody sees it now and it was it was easier to see actually I just happened to be paying attention well not with leftist they don't they don't see much um so we were having a discussion in the greenroom and you were telling me about an incident that happened at Stanford and I think it's sort of the perfect place where we can launch point brush start talking about free speech and where we're at well I was asked to go to Stanford to talk about the judeo-christian foundation of Western culture and you know I'm actually kind of sensitive to the idea that we on the right we like to troll the left because the left is hysterical and they take everything as an insult and I knew when they asked me to talk about that that the left would hear that as an insult to gay people an insult to Islam and so I was actually gonna begin my speech by saying that's not what I'm here to talk about I'm here to talk about how the things that we believe in grow up out of judeo-christian culture none of the students had any problem with me I'm usually really civilized with people I like to talk to people in opposition I don't mind discussing ideas and going back and forth the administration to women in the administration the Dean of religious stuff I don't even know what her title wasn't some kind of other you know administrative woman put out a newsletter saying that I was anti Islam that it was unacceptable and deeply disturbing that I should be coming to talk about judeo-christian culture during Ramadan during the holy month of Ramadan if there were some kind of question about whether or not our culture grows out of judeo-christian ideas which is ridiculous I mean Europe started out as Christendom it was called Christendom because that's where the Christians were and that's where all our ideas all the ideas that go into our founding come from and when I got there I stood up and I said you know what I was going to apologize and Kant kind of put out a sort of you know Softsoap opening but as it is screw you guys you know and they were sitting there I didn't know the two women were actually sitting there and they didn't announce themselves because you know Islam is not a race it's not it's not part of the image of God you're not born Islamic you know you and I are both made in the image of God and it doesn't know all the rest of that doesn't matter but your ideas matter and a religion is a set of ideas I have made fun of and disagreed with Catholic ideas my own religion Episcopalian ideas Jewish ideas of tea and Islamic ideas and if you can't discuss and mock and disagree with and criticize ideas why have universities are all right so it's part of this I felt very strongly but by the way they did manage to gin up enough excitement that some students came and vandalized the room in which I was going to be speaking so they did get at least that much excitement out of people and people have torn down my pictures as they almost always do and I go to these places but it's part of this idea that they're not we're in a fight of ideas I'm in a fight of ideas I'm ready to argue my ideas if I lose I'll change my mind if you lose I expect you to change your mind or if you don't the voters will change their minds but they're in a war of territory they're trying to take away the territory in which we speak ok and if you've ever read anything about war you know their war of ideas when you go and try to win hearts and minds you do that by arguing and talking in gesturing with goodwill but when you try to take territory you do it by force and that's what they're doing they're trying to scare us out of the universities with riots and heckling and with this kind of intimidation they're trying to hit us on Facebook and YouTube and Twitter and D platform us my videos are constantly being taken off or they won't let them have ads and things like that so they're actually trying to silence us I've almost been blacklisted out of Hollywood I had a very successful career as a Hollywood screenwriter so they're trying to take the territory away that's in which we have these conversations and watch make a fortune yeah and they want to create these topics that they believe are above intellectual debate and I see them doing it all the time so you're not allowed to talk about Islam right if you talk about Islam they will brand you as Lamba phobic why can't we talk about Islam we talked about Christianity we talked about people that are Jewish why can't we even talk about Muslim people right so if you critique someone who happens to be Muslim they will call you as al mobic which is pointedly insane right you should be able to critique people that are black white Christian Jewish anything there should be no person or no topic that's above all an intellectual debate and we're seeing more and more of them people don't really understand what exactly it is they're after when they try to deep platform you they are after your entire life they want to make sure that no one books you no one talks to you no one buys your product I mean they they have quite literally ruined people's lives by trying to paint them as extremists when in fact they aren't just are people that they disagree with because you only have to take somebody off his platform for a day to make him think twice about what he says to make him think well should I say that or should I not and they invent these phrases that are impossible to argue with like you use the phrase Islamophobic there's no such thing as Islamophobia phobia is a an irrational fear nobody is irrationally for your foot fearful of Islamic people nobody woke up one morning and said you know what I kind of have this fear of Islamic people they saw the violence that infests the Islamic community something like over 75% of terrorism worldwide is Islamic something like 13 of the 14 our gestational involve Islamic people they're fighting with Christians they're fighting with Jews they're fighting with other Islamic people they're fighting with Buddhists it can't all be the other guy's fault something is happening in Islam so there's a debate to be had about whether or not that violence is inherent to Islamic philosophy or is it a cancer in the house of Islam that can be extracted without hurting Islamic philosophy that's a good debate experts should have that debate I had I had a mom on my on my show and we discussed it and he said he thinks that Islam cannot ever be reformed well that isn't a mom saying they can never be performed he said there are Muslims who personally can be reformed but as a religion it can't be performed because it's written into the DNA in the fabric of what they believe in and we should be spoke about the Quran we spoke about the hadith and we talked we spoke about certain verses that are in there that are hostile towards Jewish people that you know are hostile towards infidels infidels would be me and you right people that don't agree with Sharia law and to someone like him say that I'm saying this is this is important he said that even within the Muslim community there was a debate and yet we are having left to censor the discussion before we can even have it in America and that to me is really alarming right if there's nothing to hide why can't we talk about that's of course that's the obvious question why can't we talk about why can't we have that debate and why do we have all these words that cut off debate you know when you call someone Islamophobia essentially calling him a bigot and which I really resent by the way because I bigotry is actually again it's literally against my religion it's not when I say this is against my philosophies against my religion so I really resent when people call you that but it does make you sort of pull up right it makes you say like oh I don't want to be called that and so you you start to think twice about what you say and that is the whole point the whole point is to make you be silent and you know it takes a certain amount of nerve to risk your career to risk your income and to risk your reputation simply to say that you believe in the things that America has always been about which are different from the things that every other country on earth has been about we're not just here to be nice we're not just here to be welcoming we're here to be free and that's unique that never happened before it never happened before the people said that government is the servant of the people and they have slowly been turning that around and that's what the real fight is about the fight is about whether we as individuals in our communities in our states will be free right so I mean this brings us to really the First Amendment right so that that is something that is so core to being an American is our right to free speech and I I'm totally a free speech enthusiast I believe we need more speech not less speech even if it's something you disagree with I always say I want to hand a platform to people that have terrible ideas I don't want to silence Alexandria Ocasio Cortes I want to hand her a megaphone because I think her ideas are so bad that I would love to talk about her ideas and debate them and I feel confident that I can defeat her ideas but I am sort of turning changing my opinion when it comes to free speech in the press right and what I mean by that is the press is constantly smearing labelling and and saying things about conservatives that they know to be not true they know to be fundamentally false right and yet when you become a public figure it's game on they can say whatever they want about you different in the UK in UK they can't they have to prove that they said something that was verifiably true they have they have a stricter libel laws and I think that in America we have to adopt that because it's it's sinister and it's a step towards deep platforming someone when I wrongly say Oh Andrew Clavin he's a white supremacist right so you could say okay free speech I don't care but I know that that's not true so if I call you a white supremacist and I'm in New York Times right and I say your wife's premise says what does that do well that then sends a signal to college campuses that they now can say that they are virtuous when they say you can't come speak that sends a signal to gangs like an Tifa they can show up and they can they can vandal you they can scream at you they can enact it they can enact violence towards you because they have just been told by the New York Times that you're a white supremacist so do you believe in that much free speech that people should be able to lie well I'm as close to a free speech purist as you can get great you're the right guy to talk to I when I I lived in England for a long time when I first moved to England I remember being a dinner party that way the guy next to me turned around said what is it with you Americans in this written constitution well I must have a written constitution I I was so taken aback because I never really lived outside of the country before they think it's silly that we have to write down our laws I think it's really really smart because if there's one thing you know if the government can get their grubby controlling little hands on it they will and in England they do I mean in England they have laws like I think it's called the secrecy Act and you say well what's the secrecy Act may say that's a violation of the secrecy Act you know it's like what it's about so the problem I have is if you look at England they're a free country they're probably the second most free country in the world they are nowhere near as free as we are when it comes to speech you can be arrested for tweeting something about Islam that they consider to be wrong you can get arrested for tweeting biological facts there was a woman in the UK that was arrested for saying that a male who was trans was a male right right and that is so we can actually make the argument and I do make the argument I don't care how you live your life I truly don't if you want to say you're a man and you're a woman that's fine with me but you can't dictate my sense of reality by telling me what pronouns I can use okay once you start to say to the government well here's a little bit of free speech of our free speech because I want to be protected from the New York Times lying about me once you give him that much give that mouse that cookie he's gonna come after the whole house you know and I think that I am really really wary because of course your speech is the you know in the Bible that says what comes out of a man's mouth is what defiles a man what tells you what's in his heart your speech is the essence of your freedom your speech is your ability to think say be who you want to be I don't want to give the government any ground on that now then if you don't get the government ground right on that and I'm listening I'm playing devil's advocate because I don't really know where I land if you don't if you don't give it to the government then you're giving the freedom to the corporation's to ruin people and I mean to to pleat completely ruin people because some of these some of these publications have so much power that it instantly becomes the truth for people oh I read it in the New York Times right that's Noble I run in the New York Times therefore it must be a truth but it can be completely fictitious and made up as we've learned with this presidency but the things can literally be made up out of thin air and what about the little people who can't defend themselves against that who get D platform and don't have a job why should we allow publications to murder the career wait you're talking about you you're putting together a bunch of different things here okay first of all you know the New York Times can't just lie about anybody it can't just lie about an ordinary guy who's walking by there's got to be a public figure right now a public figure can be a broad thing and even then if you can show that they have malice toward that figure or even towards his ideas you can sue I mean you can bring action against the New York Times now I would prefer to live in a world where the New York Times can call Donald Trump a Russian spy which virtually half and it's complete nonsense complete nonsense and but he's the president he's got a lot of power and I would like the press to have as much power as you know in other words I would like them to be able to say virtually anything about our politicians and and so you want to be careful when you start to say they can't do this and they can't do that when you start to talk about deep platforming that's a totally different thing because then you're talking about the power of a corporation to limit free speech and I hear a lot of right-wingers say well it's a private corporation they can do anything they want I don't agree with that I think if you are a platform as opposed to a publisher right if I'm a publisher and I I can say I'm not gonna publish canvas because I don't agree with her I can say that if I'm a platform I got to publish everybody the phone company has to let everybody use the phone right they can't say oh you and I are talking we're taking you off the phone because we don't like what you're saying not Facebook should not be allowed to do that either Google should not be allowed to do that Twitter should not so I think the difference in what you're saying when I'm saying is that you view these as two separate points I view these as a marriage so I think step one is you being smeared and libeled by the press right and the let the press let's use Alex Jones for an example right so based paint they they say he's a far-right extremist his ideas are dangerous he's inspiring hate in the world so that's step one is that the press has painted you into a corner step two is that then allows platforms like Facebook and Google and you know YouTube and Instagram to then deep platform you on the basis of they've done they've looked into you and they've research and they've determined that you are a hero figure so you look you think you can separate out but I think you can because I think one of them is one of them is attacking you and the other one is silencing you so one of them you know the left used to know this this drives me crazy the left used to know that a corporation can become so big that it becomes a government onto itself right remember they've left when the left would complain about corporations or the evil Bernie Sanders was still living in the 1930s is like still yelling about the evil corporations they used to understand corporations can become power centers and what we're all about in America is limiting power centers right making sure that power centers play off each other when something is powerful as Facebook which is now effectively a monopoly says you're off the book you're off our platform they become a publisher and then you should be able to sue them for every lie that's told on their website that's the that is the answer to that in other words the minute they start to act as a publisher you should be able to sue them if somebody else lies about you okay so you're you're okay with you have these publications that are saying horrible things you're not okay but then you have these platforms they're taking those together and and by the way I'm not okay with the New York Times what I'm talking about is the latitude we're talking we're not we're talking about the levels of latitude we're saying in the UK you can sue people pretty easily no matter how much of a public figure you are here you have to show that they actually came after you and meant to come after you it's a very high bar to get a very high bar but I prefer on speech the bar to be high okay because I mean I had it the other way where the Guardian said some hideous things about me and said that I supported Nazis and you know I got a lawyer to fire them a letter please prove it great you said it that's my improve it you're allowed to say whatever you want I'm okay with journalists saying whatever they want and I'm also K with the injection of opinion right so I've had articles calling me a sunken place demon right a miserable a miserable especially a satanic force there was a headline calling me a satanic doors that's opinion that's hyperbole I don't really care about that but then when you build into that and you say that Candace Owen supports Hitler Candace Owens you know is hates black people whatever it is prove it I just think it should be so basically like listen you're a journalist you're responsible t is you can't just irresponsibly say things so prove it you could probably go after The Times for even the New York Times for saying something like that is defamatory and I would almost in itself I mean but like I said I want the bar to be as high as humanly possible because see see this is the thing this is why I say it's two different fights one fight is that if everybody's speaking if everybody's yelling at one another then the power is diffuse and that's where what I like okay you have a voice you have a power you have a show you have a website we we all have these venues that we can talk on you can go after the New York Times just as much as they can come after you that's the way it should be but the left is really trying to do is they're trying to say it's okay for The Times to do this but you can't do it they're trying to get you off Twitter or Facebook off Google you know they're trying to get your algorithms off off Google and and that's the problem as long as everybody's speaking I'm okay with some people being liars because that's just life but when they start to take the territory away in which we speak the platforms that we use that are just now part of technology I mean Facebook it's too bad it's a private company but now it's a monopoly and part of technology they have to let talk they have to not be able to take us off and when you have if Tim Cook of Apple who actually made a speech saying you have no you're not welcome if you're a hate hater you're not welcome on the platform and I have a conscience which was given to me by God and therefore I know what's and I think like really you're a billionaire corporation you know you have no conscience with which the silenced me you know when did we suddenly think that Tim Cook is so such an angel of delight that he is going to be able to censor us with impunity no you know everybody everybody should talk I'm not afraid of anybody as long as we can fight back right and what we're seeing though is that you have these organizations like SPLC and they put you on their list and what then happens is that you can't do business at certain places you can't if you want to rent a hotel room they have at you know a deal or some sort of a you know back end business agreement with SPLC and if you're on their list you're not allowed to rent a certain conference room or I know there have been a few conservatives that have been banned from using certain banks from using venmo from using PayPal right right they don't PayPal that has gone off certain sites because of their right-wing affiliations listen I have stuff still in Hollywood projects still moving through and in Hollywood that probably the Stanford thing will kill them you know and that's gonna cost me lots and lots of money that's so unfair it's just well life is like the life is unfair but we have to stop we have to stand up for the territory because above everything else above this is the fight word this fight it's more it's more important than this tax policy or that policy or that regulation the most important thing is not to allow them to silence people because that's everything we can win we can win every single fight unless they gag us and shut us down what do you think we're at are you optimistic or pessimistic in terms of the way that things are trending right now I'm optimistic because I am optimistic because I believe in a certain strain of common sense and the American people where they thought they start to say like wait a minute how come he's got to be quiet or wait a minute you know when one of the reasons I think Obama lost the Democrat Party every seat but his is that people liked Obama personally but they saying to themselves well wait a minute you know why can't you use the word Islam when you use the word terrorism when the guy who's committing the terrorism is saying I'm doing this because I am an Islamic you know you should be able to say those things so there's always been the strain of common sense the British remember and all Europeans are used to top-down government we're used to like leave me alone bottom up government right and so when they come to you and say you can't say this there are a lot of people who get intimidated a lot of people who are afraid they've done everything they can to make us afraid but there is this kind of undercurrent in America is like get off my back you know leave me alone so right this minute I'm kind of optimistic I wish the president would take this on a little bit more I think this either they're doing it as the election is coming up to silence us they're knocking people off his election meddling they said his election no question about it this is the time when I think Trump should come out and say wait a minute and he did sort of say it the other day he said you can report this we have a website where you can report it but he should be much stronger about this because they they mean it they mean to shut us down and when you talk about the SPLC there are they are you know curating stuff on Facebook and and they're a totally left-wing organization I think so my theory is actually that all of the censorship actually came because of Trump so I think that the mainstream media has controlled the narrative for the masses for so long everything that they say every person that they paint up or down society as a whole believes it right they if they want to say that Taylor's whip is amazing everyone as a whole thinks Taylor Swift was amazing if they want you to think Kanye West is horrible a society as a whole people will say oh he's a jerk right and and when Trump came along he did this weird thing where the mainstream medium wouldn't give him a fair shake so he went to social media he started tweeting and the reason that Trump won is largely due to this hole if you will this vacuous space where the mainstream media was no longer in control of which was Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and he got a message that resonated with American people and now I feel in response they're realizing we got to close that hole we've got to make sure that we have control over that as well so that we can create a narrative and so they've started I think on the outskirts of banning people that most conservatives feel uncomfortable in terms of defending so they start with Alex Jones right and and if you go around the most conservatives they say I did yeah I disagree with him I think he's crazy this and that and so what does that do it makes it so that conservatives won't say anything right and and I said my biggest regret was that I didn't speak up for that because I knew it was wrong regardless of whether you agree with him or not completely banning him or D platforming him was was a pretty extreme especially because it happened on the same day it was Apple Facebook YouTube and Twitter so it should have learned every concerns of the fact that collusion amongst these companies is a very big deal you don't have to like Alex Jones to know that collusion amongst these big tech companies are wrong you know Trump has been so successful at appropriating the term fake news that you forget that it was a left-wing term it was invented by a group called first draft who were supported by Google ABC which was a big Hillary Clinton supporter it was backed up by david brock who's one of George Soros's minions at Media Matters and other sites like that Obama then picked it up Hillary Clinton picked it up it was a way of attacking right-wing speech on social media and the purpose of it the purpose of it as brock openly said was to bring in people like the Southern Poverty Law Center these left-wing groups to curate the news on Facebook and he won he was successful you know people always talk about conspiracy theories and they talk about pizza gate which was this crazy thing that the Wright picked up on that Hillary Clinton was smuggling child sex slaves through his pizza parlor well nobody knows nobody remembers is that the guy who ran pizza gate was a former lover of David Brock's and so there's every reason to believe this isn't sharyl Attkisson books us books Mir there's every reason to believe that the conspiracy itself was a way of blowing back on the right I mean this has been a a project of the left to curate speech on Facebook on you let's face it it's all right wingers I mean they threw for rockin in there as a kind of fake flag but it's all right wingers who were being silenced there's no you know my pal Matt Walsh was on The Daily wire he's he's standing up for unborn children and not killing unborn children and he's people are threatening to rape his children online and they're not being censored yeah but if you come out and say something about being pro-life you can get balanced right yeah and that's really scary when I say that I think the left is trying to do right now is manufacture reality on social media using social media as a good yeah they're very good at manufacturing reality and one of the scariest things is just how easy it is to brainwash people I mean people have completely lost their minds they will believe anything and I never knew this and I always say that growing up I remember first learning about yellow journalism learning about brainwashing learning about propaganda and not realizing that we were living in the living in the midst of it right so you learn about it as if it's separate like oh we're doing a study on world war two or we're doing a study on the Great Depression we're doing a study on this and you're learning about propaganda thinking well we're wise enough to realize obviously if we're in the midst of propaganda but we're not yeah we're not and and now I have people who legitimately believe there are scores of people that legitimately believe that I'm a black white supremacist that's short sighted oh I mean I mean I just really think I mean it's like it's so bonkers yeah and and to get these comments oh you're a black white supremacist and I think to myself how can you not have a modicum of intelligence enough to just realize that that is pointedly absurd whether you hate me yeah like me doesn't really matter right but you have to have just a little bit of sense to say well she can't be a white supremacist she doesn't want to create a society that she can't live in I'm right you know when you have journalists who are it must be I mean this is obviously an estimate but it must be close to 95% of mainstream media journalists or Democrats and they literally don't know I think they really don't know how biased they are so for eight years they cover Obama he's scandal-free I mean I play this thing on my show all the time this montage for people saying scandal-free you know use the IRS to silence his opposition he used the rapping billions of dollars into a rant scandal-free scandal-free and then when they go after Trump for something he clearly didn't do which is collude with Russia they think oh we're just speaking truth to power and when Trump says you guys are liars this is a witch-hunt it's like he's endangering the First Amendment well we are living you know it's it's almost it's almost beyond propaganda it's almost an atmosphere because they are living in it too they don't even know their propagandizing I think that they are throwing off this like smoke that we're all kind of wandering around in this fog of Democrat observation that that people like us who are using it's kind of like the American Revolution they come marching in with these huge armies of liars and we're kind of popping up from behind our rocks taking potshots at them from our podcasts and on our websites and all these places which is one of the reasons I'm optimistic by the way I mean we won the American Revolution again you know but but I think that they don't you're absolutely right about this I don't think they even know it's propaganda you don't think so I don't think it's like Pravda where they think well we can only say that I think they think it's virtue they think they're being virtuous see I don't see I I don't I I think that people like Don Lemon know he knows exactly what he's doing exactly what he's saying he knows that he's completely full of it and you know just the experiences that I've had with them in terms of how they tried to manufacture they they wanted to have me on like to talk about the black state movement but they didn't want to have me on they wanted to have someone jr. like oh just like a young kid that's at the rally no because you're smart and you know how to get the guest on that's not going to be able to answer your questions you to combat what you're saying so I actually think that they are purposefully manufacturing reality that they know doesn't exist I mean I can't believe that Jake Tapper is not smart enough to understand what he's doing and what he's manufacturing I actually think that they know exactly what they're doing but they're just paid enough to do it you know it's I don't want to talk about individuals because I think Don Lemon I I'm not even sure Don Lemon is smart enough to know what he's doing that guy right if he walked into a corner I think would take three guys I have to turn him around and get him out of there it's like he's just I can't believe this stuff that comes out of his mouth but I think that that they have so brainwashed themselves they really do believe that when I say you know I think it's not like oh it's not like I'm colorblind or anything like that I think race is a false category I think race is a false category of human beings I really do you know what do you mean by that I just don't think that you can gather people together according to their skin color or even their nationality and find out anything about except maybe what culture they came out of because if you live in Rome you're going to come out of a Roman culture if you live in Chicago in the in the inner city you're going to come out of an inner city Chicago culture but I don't think you can gather people according to their skin color or according to their bloodline and tell you very much about them except maybe what diseases they're prone to get you know and and so I think that when you see the world like that you're actually seeing false stuff so people say to me well you know what are you gonna do about black poverty and I think the same thing I do about white poverty you know you gotta build families you got to build culture you gotta educate people the same thing yeah it's like I don't think there's any difference there I don't think there's any you know kind of treating I think treating people according to race is damaging you know and and I think that when you say that they call you racist but when they create segregated dorms on college when they say this is the thing that's happening in the creative industry this is really happening in publishing and in movies and TV they have a thing called owns story which means I can't write a character who's black or I can't write a character who's a woman they just attacked Elton John's new movie because the cat guy plays me isn't gay okay that means if you think about that that means that between you and me Candice there is some block that causes me to be unable to share your humanity right well that's you know that's insane it's wrong it's completely wrong and so and so they they call they call me a racist for saying that but for segregating people for telling people they can't write about people of different colors for telling us they're so different we can't even understand each other that's somehow and that is the challenge that I think I always try to communicate to people is that they they're so progressive they're aggressive like we've realized we're so woke that we've realized that black people need their own safe spaces oh you mean like literally segregation again believe a break that's what I mean when I say they they don't know what they're doing that philosophy is so screwed up right I don't even know if Don Lemon understands that he calls everyone who disagrees with him or racist everything does he understand that he's also dating a white man that's the part that I don't write I'm like I watch him I remember watching him Sam and than I do the biggest thing he said the biggest threat is our white men he said that same sentence right but we shouldn't do nicely but the biggest threat in society is white men who literally has a bright blue eyed white male boyfriend and I just think astonishing to live your life so and authentically clearly you know this isn't true right and that's not that's no potshot to him great I am I actually am progressive I believe in interracial relationships I don't even think it should be a topic or a discussion I think it's ridiculous that people are even talking about it or people say that whites and blacks oh you've sold out if you if you're marrying a white person right because I actually am a progressive right conservatives actually are progressive but for him to say something like that is is pointedly absurd just to say the biggest threat facing American society is is white men and at the same time to be going and be so if a critical that you know you're living your life privately but that's what I mean I don't think that Don Lemon like puts on his tie in the morning and thinks I'm gonna go lie to people I think he thinks that this is that he is sharing some truth that he knows that we're just too foolish to say that's that's what I mean I don't mean to pick on him particularly although I don't really I do okay yeah yeah it's horrible I think the entire mainstream media has now developed this philosophy I mean I don't know if you I read the New York Times every morning because I write satire so I gives me good material for satire you know but if you look at the New York Times it's just it's a hate site virtually it's like Trump does this and Trump does that and this happened and it's from small it's like every single story I think if you knew you were doing that you would be ashamed right and I think they do they no longer hear who they are I think that the problem right now is that you can't differentiate between satire in reality people don't know if it's really not because it's gotten that absurd that satire has somehow become reality which makes the job really hard for satire writers like yourself they yell at me because on The Daily wire we always put under my pieces we put satire and they say who doesn't know this is satire and I think like even I sometimes don't remember whether because everything has gotten so absurd and up is down and left is right yeah and and we're at this this kind of unfortunate place in society but I agree with you I'm super optimistic about things every single day I'm super optimistic because there's something about how absurd it's got in that I almost all get had get really bad before things got better yeah and as they say the most absurd things they could possibly say about me it makes me think that they're fearful upper left is somehow fearful and they know that something is about to break and really what but I'm what I'm selling there's just like it doesn't need to be black and white anymore we can we can release this because what I've learned about the black community is that we unfortunately we've bought into this idea that we're separate from the American Dream the most harmful thing that's horrible yeah horrible we are actively taught our own oppression in school before we even get out and try before we even make an effort in society we have already been brainwashed to believe we can and it's because of people like you it's because of white males right and and and that is what actually is the biggest thing against this is ourselves yeah right if you buy into the victim narrative then you're a victim you're never gonna be able to triumph and do anything in life and if you buy into the idea that everybody everybody has to like you and be the past has to be fixed which by the way the past is never fixed the past is never fixed the past is past it's done there's nothing you can do about it it's a tragedy that's part of the tragedy of life if you get into the idea that first you have to fix the past or first you have to get everybody to like you your waste your time like right you're dissing hatred and I think it's just it's just bad advice I wouldn't give that advice to my son I wouldn't give it to my daughter I wouldn't give it to a friend it's just a terrible terrible thing to say to anybody and when I read his name goes out of my head but that guy who just won the MacArthur award he write roots the the the he racist stuff about the black body and we should have reparations and all this stuff and I just think I would never give that advice to anybody you know like let it go what are you gonna contribute what do you good best reparation is embracing your future really really that's made the repair of the past is to look towards the future it's just it is very it's dispiriting let me tell you why I'm optimistic though and this just comes from being 110 years old okay I lived in New York when New York hit bottom I mean it was unbelievable you could not go out for those days I smoked you couldn't go out for a pack of cigarettes without being afraid for your life people would not come to visit me because they were so afraid of the crime I remember my birthday we had a blackout the city went up in flames were just riots and things like this and it was terrible Rudy Giuliani came into that city and cleaned it up I mean he turned around and everyday he did that the New York Times called him a racist Times called him a tyrant they said he was a Nazi they said everything they say about Donald Trump and he turned that city around so it became the most beautiful agios dragging it back down but for like a good 20 years or more he made that city into a beautiful beautiful place probably the greatest city on earth one guy really one administration not paying attention to the to what they were calling him same thing with Ronald Reagan Jimmy Carter drove this country right into the ground I don't think he was a bad I think he's a bad guy now but I'm not sure he was a bad guy then it's just an incompetent he just believed things that weren't true kind of like Obama Obama believe things that just weren't true I thought it was easy to think that the West was over in the 1970s and Reagan came in and they called him a racist every day and they called him a tyrant and they called him a war monger and an idiot he turned the country around I mean the country then went into like 25 years of incredible prosperity so you only have to turn the ship in the right direction and things get better and I think the whole Trump has done a lot of that and like I oppose Donald Trump tooth and nail when he was in the primaries I was just wrong you know I was I was afraid because of his effect because of that you know belligerent kind of obstreperous or even boorish that you're from New York yeah I I was not as you know it is funny been in Los Angeles a little too long huh he talks just like everybody I grew you know I knew everybody talked like that yeah when that that tape about him talking about women came out everybody was so shocked I was like everybody I know Tom but and and I remember Trump from New York and I remember good things he did in New York but I was I was worried about him he's done a really good job and the fact that he is so he doesn't care what they call him he doesn't even hear what they call him I think has been the strongest his strongest point and so I'm kind of cautiously optimistic that who win in 2020 and if he wins in 2020 I think our politics will not be the same for the next 20 years I like your humility and admitting that you were wrong I find that conservatives really struggle with committing when we're just wrong right when you just like I completely called it wrong I'm willing to change my opinion are willing to change my mind and so many people were just category wrong which is understandable he just was you can't have no it you might have no worry of something we've never seen before in the political scene had no political experience and was just just out there you know just really out there and people were wondering is he sane enough to do this is he gonna you know actually do things effectively but now the results are in right so people that that don't stand behind this now how can you say your to me how can you really say you're a conservative right when everything he has done but from a policy perspective has been unbelievably conservative believable it might be the most conservative president I know I'm not saying much it definitely in my lifetime right I bet I think our argument is he's more conservative than Ronald Reagan he's I think he's more successful in a lot of ways than Reagan is at least in the first most most presidents by the way have six months they do everything in the first six months of their presidency if you look back almost all their accomplishments are in the first six months to a year so he had two years of really churning out important stuff I mean that if only the deregulation and the tax taxes and the judges that's amazing stuff that's an amazing accomplishment he's been tremendously successful he's a tough guy to deal with for people like me because one of the things about Reagan is they called Reagan's stupid every day Reagan was deeply immersed in in conservative philosophy and you get the feeling that Trump is just flying by the seat of his pants that he's an instinctive conservative but he does the right thing instinctively and that's a little harder to trust because what if his instincts go in a different way he's a tough guy he's he is you know I I really have have cheered his his successes as you say I've admitted that I got him wrong I had a video that got something like 17 million its attacking him during the primaries and I wish I could take it back is the only path to wisdom you know and you've the one you've got it wrong but I mean but he's still a difficult guy because he's ill-mannered he's done things in his life that it's hard to support I mean I don't think that's a good way to treat your wife or wives the way he has and and so you don't want to like sign on to everything right but he's only he's not my daddy he's not my pal right he's not your husband not he's none of those things it's just the President of the United States it has the president's face he's doing a great job right and it's actually funny that you say that cuz people speak a lot about the morality and I say if morality was at the forefront of why we elected politicians all of it we be tearing down the statues of every American president ever was and everybody they've never elected never elected a moral president before I talk about all the time you may have thought so because maybe the mainstream media was on their side like they weren't Obama everyone thinks he was oh my god this amazing man who never does anything wrong wrong yeah yeah wrong really you just have to remember that we're not electing someone to be the Pope it whatever happened is in a personal life that personally is between that person and their wife and their family and their kids and the question is are they driving America into the direction that we wanted to be driven into and which is sort of conservatively like you see is the abiding by the Constitution that we believe it this is the other thing about him like all you hear about him is he's an authoritarian he's a Nazi he's a dictator the dictators the knew were there and I just keep saying show me one place cuz I'm really hyper sensitive to this I believe in the Constitution like that is a big deal to me and one of the things I really disliked about Obama is the way he transgressed the Constitution again and again and nobody said a damn thing show me one place one place where where Trump has transgressed the Constitution where he has acted outside the boundaries of the law and I can't think of even one I can think of places where he's kind of edged you know that and the courts have slapped him down and he has stepped back you know I just can't clean it he does and he taps within the law they've been trying to get this guy look this guy has been at the forefront of American the American imagination since when the 80s 70s he's been around forever they've been trying to bring him down forever they've been investigating him forever they've been auditing him forever he'd be in jail if he was as bad as they said he is he's obviously not he's obviously you know he's got a bit of the carnie Barker in him he's got a bit of the you know B's a big mouth and he exaggerates but even when they talk about his lies his lies were all like oh was the biggest crowd there was I counties over exaggerations he's never say lots of relatives yes helps the economy because people here like always for America we're gonna go invest and all that stuff it's really been helpful but he hasn't said you know you can keep your doctor he hasn't said oh that terrorist was just a guy in the neighborhood when he was actually you know backing his campaign he actually has has been he's he's fulfilled his promises his promises his campaign promises mattered to him he's done pretty well and I think at this point the conservatives who don't back him who just will not get off his back and will not step back you know it's not a sin to say some of the things that I say that they're things about him I don't like that's one thing but to say that you know he's the opposition to him at this point is so Looney so anti-american so anti capitalism so anti everything we have ever stood for he's the only game in town you know and I mean he's he's doing a good job and I think that I don't understand why we can't unify around that and why we left the we left the media we're talking about the atmosphere that the media creates we let the media make us panicked about a good example a good example Donald Trump the stuff he said about women that if you're famous women will let you do things that's a fact the fact that he's buddy and he said well they hate when I say that I'm like that is a verifiable yeah but okay so you call him a bore cuz he used Boris language like New Yorkers do when they're alone almost all of us who hadn't when were alone we talk like that let's call him a bore fine but Bill Clinton was plausibly accused of rape and the atmosphere of hysteria around Trump's remarks versus the atmosphere of well you know was it really raping was a rape rape and I don't you know the atmosphere is just so different and it's very hard when I talked to my liberal friends they all say the same thing they all say well I disapproved of that too but no they didn't not to this thing up and not in the same way and not with the same hysterical you know oh that makes him unable to unfit to be President so I don't know you know this is just part of like the the the fight we're in the fight were in is to change that atmosphere to get a loud enough voice is strong enough voice a smart enough voice so that when they call us the things that they call you not that we can silence them simply we can beat them it's what I'm looking for I'm looking for us to beat him I'm looking for us to have the courage the intelligence the culture awareness which we're very weak on to fight back in the way that they fight because they fight so well they fight dirty quite really dirty no what would you say has been the hardest part for you like just and when I say the hardest part like whether it's being called something whether it's being like you know not being able to show up on a college campus what do you think it's been the hardest part because I know we both have something in common yeah where we have family members that have bought into it yeah you know the hardest part for me is professional though I mean my family members they have bought into it and I'm sure they think terrible things about me but but you know I'm a born storyteller I was born to do one thing I only ever wanted to do one thing I only ever want to write novels and my novel career became a film screenwriting career and I really enjoy doing that and they've made it virtually impossible you know I still do it I fight my way through I have this book another Kingdom which I put out as a podcast and was tremendously successful but I had to put it out as a podcast because I knew when it has come out as a novel but I knew that as a novel I wasn't gonna be able to sell it in the same way way I have to then I have the shameless plug it cuz I'm big on supporting conservatives but they try to do this to all of us you guys if you have not gone out and bought it please go out and and support Andrew clav in another Kingdom you can buy it today and it's good you know I have to say like I I think I'm one of the the best popular novels around and I do and I think I would I would put myself up against anybody there is and they've made it tough you know I mean things have happened to me like like I wrote a book for Christian young people but a series of adventure stories for Christian young people okay so they were very clean very and they had Christian heroes they weren't preachy it's just the hero who was in the adventure would be a Christian person I sold one of these series to England for good money and they were putting it out in this big way and then they wrote to me and said but you have to edit out all the references to the Bible and I said but the guy's a Christian he refers to the Bible in his mind yeah but our our bookstore water stones won't sell it they won't handle it if you don't cut it out I said I'm not gonna do it you know I can't do that that's like it you wouldn't ask me if I were Muslim you wouldn't ask me if I were Jewish you wouldn't ask me anything else except to cut out there and I wouldn't do I refuse to do it in the bookstore cut back there order to almost nothing and I haven't had a contract in England since you know and I mean I think that that's that's the the tough thing and I listen I haven't lost a moment's sleep over it because I know I'm doing what's right I'm speaking up you know and I know I'm doing the thing I was born to do and that God wants me to do and also but I won't tell you it's not painful I mean that's that's the thing I love doing that's where the thing I loved making a living at and and it's been it's been tough they have that power right I think for me it's been the more personal software it's like Yousaf yeah I mean you grew up with someone your entire life and you know them and they know you intimately and you you are just you know that there's no way that anybody could ever fracture anything between you and then there's something weird happens you become a public figure where their whole vision of you becomes a sword and they believe the articles that are being written about you so I've lost like a cousin who I was just so close with it was insane and I mean just like the closest person growing up and and one smear piece went viral or you know one one one something went viral never what it was and suddenly I blog on a Facebook and this person is actively saying something against me and saying that they happen you know disown me and I think that what to me was like I don't care about what they say about me I don't care about losing friends I call it like shedding like you know coming out of the cocoon and becoming a butterfly like those friends weren't adding much intellectual value yeah but when it hits close to home when you lose a cousin its brutal I mean that that I think has been the hardest thing for me ya know I see that I mean we you know their manure friends who won't come over the house anymore and relatives who won't speak to me and all this stuff and they don't understand like they're so immersed and this is why I say sometimes people don't even know the lies that telling this so immersed in this culture they read the New York Times and surrounds them like a fog you know and and they don't stop and say well this guy's always been a decent guy why is he saying these things immediately at least I'm lucky enough that my wife has said you know like I know I know what you want I know you want people to be free I know you want people not to be oppressed by the government so at least when I say things that might shock her she understands that I am fighting for something that is good and decent and right you know and I think that I I think that I wish more people thought that they I don't mind somebody saying you know I disagree with you I think it's more important that we let these poor immigrants in and that the country keeps its you know upholds the rule of law that's a debate I think there are all kinds of things we can debate you know I mean this is one of the things I try to tell college students when I talk to them all these there are always smart debates under the stupid debates okay so that like one side says hey you know gay people love people of their own sex and I want to be married and that's right and good because it's better than being promiscuous and being out and the other side says well marriage is a pillar of society and you don't want to change it because maybe that pillar will fall down and the ceiling will come in it's a debate - decent good people can have that debate but when you tell me that there's love and there's hate then you're like in you know you're in this kind of weird mythological territory where there's the good guys and the bad guys right how can you have a debate about that can't you know right so like when you when you tell me that some people are uncomfortable with their gender I have sympathy for that I think that must be a terrible I think we'll thing but when you tell me that actually turns them into women a man turns a man into a woman it's a stupid debate you can't have that and if I don't believe that on the hater and I'm a you know transphobic or something like that that's a dumb debate you know that we were talking about Islam the debate about how we want to treat religions with respect and we want to be open to religions but maybe some religions are actually antithetical to Western thought that's a debate that is two sides intelligent sides of goodwill that can come together when you tell me that if I say a lot of killing being done in the name of Allah and you say well you're an Islamophobe that's a stupid debate right so the problem I have is when you have a media a news media and entertainment media an academy it's all on one side right the debate gets stupid that's the problem because we could we Americans of goodwill which I believe is probably 70% of Americans you know Americans of goodwill can discuss anything you know I said this at Stanford I said you guys should be up at 3 o'clock in the morning discussing gender genders a fascinating topic with all kinds of ramifications talk about it all night yell at each other scream at each other nothing is out of bounds why should it be you're 20 years old you know it's not time to put borders on what you say or what you think it's time to expand what you think you know but we can't have this debate if every single meet form of media is populated by one side and is telling everybody that the other side is just hateful we're just Satan it's just Satan yeah and it's just I mean they do it they even get it into the language like but like I said Islamophobic you know racial racial profiling which translates means police work you know things policemen have to do you know and and they do it all the time you know objectifying women what does that mean guys like to look at girls you know that's why we're all here we're all here because because guys like the look at girls you know and you when you put these words on it that the minute you talk about them you're somehow talking to something wrong debate gets stupid and I and I just think I'd like to see one of the things I'd like to see conservatives do is is up the debate you know bring on people I constantly invite people like dry they won't come they won't come they won't come because they don't actually believe what they believe and boy you know I I we offer a hundred thousand dollars for Alexandria kasnia Court as a debate me and we are the same age we almost have the same initial C al versus the AOC you know we are just we are diametrically opposed right so what better way okay you are the ultimate socialist I'm the ultimate capitalist right you can't use your argument that you're you're a female you can't use your argument that you're a minority so you're just gonna have to think your thoughts right you're just gonna have to present your ideas right and no no thank you doesn't want to do that because if she feels safe when she stays in this space and she just says anybody that disagrees with me is a racist they might agree used me as a sexist Oh old Republican white man again disagreeing with me and the only way that you're going to be able to feed that is you have to have someone come in that is sits atop of her on the progressive stack oh well you might be Hispanic but black people have been more oppressed historically so according to your own leftist rules you can't use that card anymore your card has been trumped not let's debate your ideas yeah and they don't come because they don't believe their ideas of course everything can't be free right that's it's impossible thing that she's even advocating for but she doesn't understand what she's advocating for she just knows how to use Instagram how to use Twitter and how drum up people talking about her because she says things that are just so pointedly ridiculous and I found this to be true about all leftist they do not want to debate their ideas they will not sit down we had a Pete like you still can't say his last name why he judge number one reason he's not many presidents cuz no one can say it okay not go on the date fruit Minh Show right is he's not gonna go I'm a day proven show you have Elizabeth Warren saying that she will not go on Fox News because yeah there they are a hateful Network there are races a hateful race to Gentiles which means I'm going to stay in my safe space and no one's gonna ask me tough questions right and that's what the left is becoming and it's really embarrassing on my show because on my show I don't debate people I let them speak I ask them questions and I challenge them but I let them speak and I never shout at anybody or anything they still won't they just won't do it and part of it by the way is because they've created a world in which if if they come on your show that could hurt them sure people say well you went on that Nazi show which is ridiculous ruined they have to abide by those rules no look I hope there's a change I say all the time if there is what this politician or a leftist thought leader that might be a bit a bit of an oxymoron but if you would like to come onto my show we always invite them okay Andrew so we wrap up each episode with two minutes you look at the camera and for two minutes you get to just leave a vibration with the world you can say anything you want if everyone had to listen to this two minutes and it just had to be written into law tomorrow and they said you know what thank goodness Andrew Clavin said this now I'm going to enact this into I'm going to put this into my life and make it a thing right he's gonna time you right on your mark get set Andrew kleavon's two minutes all right the thing you have to remember about free speech is there's only two systems of speech there's free speech in which everybody gets to talk and there's speech controlled by the powerful and when I say the powerful I mean people have the ability to punish you if you don't do what they say that's the government that is people in large institutions like corporations and it's the mob by which I don't mean the Mafia I mean people who show up and throw things and cause trouble you either have free speech in which everybody talks or you have speech controlled by powerful because once you start to say oh yes you can speak as long as you're not hateful the question becomes who decides what's hateful is it going to be the ordinary Joe on the street who decides what's hateful or is it going to be the head of apples Tim Cook or is it going to be the head of Facebook or is it going to be the government it's going to be the powerful who decide what's hateful and what is not allowed to be said and so you have to have free speech which means including people that you don't like and that you disagree with your freedom depends on the freedom of the people you disagree with because you can't have one side being free and the other not free ultimately that's just a question of power as well the thing to remember is that people who are silencing people the people who are censoring people are all powerful people so the ordinary people you and me have to talk to one another we have to talk to one another when we disagree we have to talk to one another when Mirth the dinner table we have to talk to one another an ordinary conversation and not allow the powerful to decree what we can and can't say the people on the Left who vote Democratic are not the leaders they're not the same as AOC and the people who scream hate and the people who disallow right-wing speech most of the people on the left are just as sensible as the people on the right we just disagree and if we talk to one another and if we don't let the powerful silenced us the country can turn around I've seen it happen before I've been around a long time I've seen this country go right into the trough and I've seen it come up again simply good because people defied the attempts to silence them it'll happen again there we go thank you so much for joining the Candice Owen chat was great to say thank you that was awesome Thanks it's so interesting thank you guys for watching the latest episode of the Candice Owens show I hope you guys enjoyed the conversation as much as I did as many of you guys already know Prager U is a 501c3 nonprofit organization which means we need your help to keep all of our content free to the public please consider making a tax-deductible donation today I would really appreciate your support