Moments That Make Us: Reese Witherspoon Sees Women as the Heroes of Their Own Stories

I'm endlessly curious, and I always have. I loved school. I was that nerd in school. I mean, the nerdiest nerd who ever nerded. To celebrate turning 60 this year, I chatted with women of all ages about their biggest life transitions. I'm Melinda French-Gates, and these are the moments that make us. Reese, I'm so glad we can have this conversation. Thanks for doing this for my birthday. I know. I'm so excited. I'm a little more than a decade ahead of you. I'm having these conversations for us to all be able to look back on different decades of our lives, because we all evolve as women and as human beings. Can you start by thinking back, like, a decade ago? Like, would you have imagined your 40s the way that you've lived them? Oh, my gosh. I feel like if you had told me that my life was what it is right now a year ago, I would have said, I don't believe you. I've really made peace with, and this is my work in life, is just that change is inevitable, and not knowing is OK, that lack of certainty in different areas of your life. And sometimes you have things sorted out, but then you have one piece that's missing. Or sometimes things are humming along, and then the bottom drops out, or the rug gets pulled out from under you. And I think what I'm always stunned by is women's resilience. In your 20s, like in your early 20s, even before your first child, did you know you wanted to have a career and be a mom, or did you think you wanted to have one or the other? Growing up, my mother worked all the time. So she was a pediatric nurse, and she taught nursing at the State University. So there was never a question. Of course, I was going to be a mom and work. My grandmother, however, was a stay-at-home mom. She had been a kindergarten teacher, and when she had kids, she stayed home with her kids. And then when we were little, my grandmother raised us when my mother was working. So we had this really nice family system that helped support my mother as a working woman, but she never shamed my mom. She never made her feel guilty, that I know of. But I was raised with these really positive ideas of women working and being moms. I knew I wanted to be a mom, even though it happened earlier than I thought it would happen. But I remember being 23 and being on movie sets, like Legally Blonde, and I had a baby, and I was like, well, that's just what you do. And you find your village or your network of people that help you, whether that's other moms or a nanny or a caregiver. I knew I had to make enough money to afford childcare. So there was a lot of calculations I was making, but I never thought of it as mutually exclusive. I didn't think I had to do one or the other. We're gonna talk a bit about how Hollywood is going through a transition, because you're outspoken about that. Sure, yeah. But even from back then, so when you had your first child and you're in your 20s and you're shooting this movie that becomes iconic for you, and maybe a breakout movie, have film sets changed since then? Are they more responsive to having kids? Was it less responsive then? How has that changed over your career? Have you seen an evolution or not really? Absolutely. I used to feel like I had to hide the fact that I had kids. Oh. I wouldn't talk about my kids at work. I wouldn't bring it up if somebody brought it up. I wouldn't talk about it. I would bring my kids probably when it was times when I didn't think the producers were around, because I didn't want to look distracted. But being a mom, your children are always on your mind. Right, always. There's not a, I call it the ticker tape, because I'm like, okay, how's Ava doing? How's Deacon doing? How's Tennessee doing? How's Ava doing? How's Deacon doing? How's Tennessee doing? And it just goes in your brain like that. Yeah. But I do think things have shifted in Hollywood in so many ways over so many years. But I remember when I first had kids that, yeah, it wasn't the most nurturing environment for young moms or any kind of mom. I think back now, at the place that I founded Pivotal Ventures, of course we have a room for breastfeeding. It wasn't even a question. But I think of my friends who had kids before me when I was working at Microsoft, they laughed those women out of the room when they asked for a room for breastfeeding. So I look at society and I think, okay, we've come certain distances, or now finally women are in Congress and saying we have to have a place to bring our children breastfeed, but that's not true yet in state legislatures. You have been really outspoken about equality and gender and progressive issues in society. Why is that? First of all, I grew up with a very strong grandma and a really strong mother. So I had these really great role models of positive female influences in my life who told me that anything was possible. I also went to all-girls school in high school that I think had a lot to do with how I felt about what women were capable of and the opportunities that we got and we didn't get. So I was really aware of that early on. That said, I had to pay my dues. I went through my first 15 years in Hollywood, did what I was supposed to do, and I showed up and I worked to the highest of my ability. But around the time I was like 34, I started getting really irritated with the lack of diversity in the movie scripts I was seeing and the lack of female representation. And that the women inside those scripts were just either the wife or the girlfriend of somebody, but not the lead character. And so I went around to every head of every studio. I had worked at every studio at that point. You started when I was 14 and I was 34, so I'd been there for 20 years. And I said, you know, what are you developing for women? And every single studio head said to me, we're not developing anything. But if you wanna bring us something, that's fine, but we're not gonna do it on our own. Except for one studio said, well, we have one movie with a woman starring in it this year we can't make two. Oh. Yeah. Only one. Okay. At the same time, I was watching my children use social media. It was around 2013, 14, so that I started seeing this emergence of communication and community building online. And I thought if I could merge these two movements, plus streaming was emerging, right? And we needed tons of content. I feel like this could be a good time to start a company that focuses on female storytelling and female filmmakers. So, like I see you as in these circles as this continuous learner, and then other people look to you, you have a book club. I mean, where does that come from? Well, thank you, first of all, for saying that or noticing that about me. I really appreciate that. I'm endlessly curious. And I always have, I loved school. I was that nerd in school. I mean, the nerdiest nerd who ever nerded. And books were where I learned to have this imagination and curiosity about life, and that life was bigger than me, and the world was bigger than me, and I couldn't wait to get into it. So it's a natural extension of my curiosity to then be an educator of the things I learn. And I try to be very judicious about what I share to make sure it's based in real data and science, because that's very important. Very important. You need to have some backup when you're serious. That's for sure. But yeah, I've been lucky in that. And when you start to open up like that, or you start to get curious, your world just expands infinitely. Do you feel like you could learn anything? Well, I didn't go to business school. You know, and I started a business, and I sold a business, and it was a big deal. We do get kind of fear-based in the idea that only certain people are allowed to succeed in certain areas. And I think it's really important that we think beyond those constraints, because we really are infinitely capable. It does take insane amounts of hard work, and it takes good team building around you. For sure. And also, when you're building something that has purpose and passion, People connect to it. People connect. Yeah. Were you afraid when you went out to raise money for this production company? Were you afraid, oh, I might stumble, I might not be able to raise it? Where did you find the courage to keep going? Like, do you turn inward? Do you turn to somebody else? I mean, because we all need support in life, right? Because that's hard. Well, if I'm gonna be really brutally honest, I don't get, when I get no's, and I got a lot of no's from a lot of, I'm just gonna be honest, venture capital men. Okay, I got a lot of no's, and I got a, that doesn't make sense, that's not a good idea. Or like, why you, you're an actor. Like, you're gonna, are you really gonna do the work? A lot of doubt. I don't get depressed or sad. I get angry. Me too. I'm like, forget it. I'm not gonna prove to you. Are you kidding me? I get a little chip on my shoulder. Yeah. If somebody tells me I can't do something, I'm like, what? And maybe it's because I'm somebody's little sister. I had a big brother growing up. I'm like, really? You think I can't do it? I'll fall over trying. I will wake up earlier. I will stay later. I will read more. I will do anything to make it possible. Basically because I just relate to that underdog value. That's funny though, because your breakout role as Elle Woods in Legally Blonde, which I know well, I just have to admit, my oldest daughter's now 27, and I was very judicious, especially with her, my first, like which movies I was gonna let her watch when she's like nine. And so that was one she watched over and over again. You play a character though, that like was up against all odds and wouldn't take no for an answer. Was that a purposeful choice or did it just kind of come to you? Well, I read the script and I was one of three other people they were considering and I had to audition and I had to go in and I had to dress the part. And I was sort of like, I was trying to find my way into the character. I had this one moment where I was like, am I gonna do this movie? I'm not gonna do this movie. And I saw Goldie Hawn being interviewed by Gloria Steinem on a television show. And it was like a lightning bolt to me because Gloria Steinem said, Goldie, you are a feminist. And when you made Private Benjamin, which is about this woman that was underestimated and she seemed kind of like materialistic and obsessed with her clothes and her hair and her outward appearance joins the military. But she overcomes everything and she's worried about a man and then she gets the end and she punches him in the face. That's Legally Blonde. And to know me is to know how much I love Goldie Hawn. She was my idol. So that was the moment where I was like, I have to do this. And seeing that interview changed everything for me. And I went back in with the amazing writers, Karen and Kiwi, rewrote three pivotal scenes that were really important to unlocking her deep insecurity of feeling underestimated and not good enough. Tell us about one scene. Well, there's this scene at the very beginning where her parents say, honey, you don't wanna go to law school. It's for boring, ugly people or something like that. There's a moment in the middle where she looks at her boyfriend who's dumped her and said, you're not a serious wife material for me. And she goes into the bunny costume and all the girls are making fun of her at the Halloween party. And she turns to him and she said, I'm never gonna be good enough for you, am I? And she starts to cry. I mean, it makes me wanna cry now. But we've all had that moment where you're across from a romantic partner and you're like, I'm not the girl. I'm not your girl, am I? Oh, okay. I gotta be my own self. Now I'm gonna be my own self. Bye. You know? And I'm enough. Enough for who I am. Yeah. For me. Yeah, and it makes me cry now. Yeah. I didn't even think about it, but that was such a huge thing that we got on film. I'm so glad you did. And that starts the second half of the whole movie that's like, no, she's gonna do it for herself. I've had conversations now with other women who I'm also interviewing and it keeps coming up between us. They will often bring it up, this perfectionism or this enoughness that we send our girls out in society. And even if we've raised strong, competent young women, they get out in society and then there are these constant messages of you're not enough, or no, or you can't be an investor, or how could you start that, or stay in the box of being this one thing that you set off to do, right? And society gives us all these messages and so we have to learn to push back on them and remember that we were enough the day we were born. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And all the way through, but we don't always get those messages. And some kids aren't even fortunate enough to get them when they're young. But I see you as a trailblazer because you're knocking down these barriers in Hollywood. And then when you started your production company, you were very, very specific about, I'm gonna create strong female roles. I want women and men to be able to see women in all kinds of strong roles. Yeah. I think that's so important. Well, I'm inspired. I mean, I'm so inspired by you who's taken a life that people think they understand and know, and you said, no, who I am is something totally different. And I'm gonna start to show you a little bit of who I am. And then a little bit more, a little bit more. But the impact that you've had in the world, and this can make me cry, just by your deep care for women across this planet is so profound and important. And it continues. This is just the beginning too, which is so exciting. And it matters, I think us saying those things to one another as women, or we'll have a male who's a friend who writes and just says, keep going. I got you. What else can I do? I've been using a phrase more and more, Charlie Munger, who passed away in this last year, he was 99. He talks about a web of deserved trust. And so I sort of look for this, I've learned over time to look for these deep connections that just sometimes come, but then this web of trust that when you go through a hard transition or a hard time in life, because we all go through it, that you can lean back into your web and they've got you, right? And it might not be somebody who can even show up for coffee but they just say something to you, or they send you a phrase or a poem or a book. We all need that in life. Hopefully by the time you get to the falling, you've done enough supporting that people are excited to be, not excited, they're not delighting in your misery, but they're ready to support you. Totally. And they're so happy to be there for you. For sure. And your job is to lean into it. What did it mean to you to go to an all girls school? How do you think that shaped you? In ways I think it was this formative experience for me that's always made me feel like this deep kinship to other women. I was just surrounded by their fears and vulnerabilities at a very young age. And then in other ways I think, sometimes it's hard for me to talk to men because I'm like, thank God I had a brother. But there's certain things I'm just like, don't understand their behavior. I'm like, why would you do that? Well, it's funny. So I went to an all girls Catholic school in Dallas. I got to college and I went into classrooms and it was just like, they felt so free to just shout out the answer when the professor asked a question and I thought I was supposed to raise my hand. I had a very class that had a lot of camaraderie. The young women who were really into athletics or those of us who were into drama or I was into math and science. It just felt so different. Like it took me a beat until I could sort of figure it out. Form a team, just like I formed teams of women or they formed teams and I was on them. Form a team of amazing people around you and you can get great things done. That's really well said too because a lot of my professional life is team building too. A lot of it from a movie set to building a company but I want to go back to the all girls education. What do you think it is? I think when I had, in my case, I had really strong female teachers who were obviously very smart, good at teaching but they opened up the world to me and I saw that women had done really neat things. One was in computer science, one was in the arts and so I said, oh, I could be like one of them. Now I'd never thought about women in politics but they absolutely told us and my parents both told us we could be anything in the world. And I think that was just so formative at that time. Yeah. Now you raised, or you're raising, I should say we're still moms, we're always gonna probably feel like we're raising kids. We're always raising Melinda. Yes. Okay, so two boys and a girl. The two who are in their early 20s, how have you tried to raise them to see society or push on society? How do you think about that as a parent? I think my mother just instilled in me so many positive things about being a mother. So much is about joy and experiences so it was really important to me that my kids are well-traveled. And I'm really proud that my kids are hardworking, that they don't complain, that they come from a background where they're grateful every day for everything they have, whether it's their healthy body or a great education. My kids are really deeply appreciative and curious about other people because that's what really makes life fun. For sure. My dad used to say to us kids, it's the people you meet, the places you go, and the books that you read that will keep you kind of the most open and learning in life. And I have to say, I felt lucky that I was the kid just because we happened to move into a house right before I went into high school that the bookshelf was built in in my room so I got to have the Encyclopedia Britannica in my room. Oh my God. And I was the nerd who, I didn't read whole chapters, but I'd pull things off to look them up. But yeah, when you get to meet other people and learn about what they're interested in or learn what they're doing, or you get to travel somewhere, you read. I mean, you read massively. The two places I go for book recommendations are, I have to be honest, first, my oldest daughter, who's 27, who grew up watching Legally Blonde. I go to her and then I go to your book club, Zach. Thank you. What made you start a book club? Starting a book club was sort of an accident. I was posting on Instagram books that I liked. So the first thing we did at Hello Sunshine, my CEO, Sarah Hardin, and I, was create the book club structure. What are we looking for in books? What books do we want to share? That's the main metric is, is this book shareable? Absolutely. Because you can read books that really, like, wound you or they, like, take you to your knees. Really the most important thing for me for community is, do I want to share this with somebody? And does it have a strong female point of view? Is it written by a woman? And is she the hero of her own story? I really, I'm just allergic to victimhood, you know? I want to see women as survivors, because we are. There isn't a woman who hasn't saved herself at some point in her life. We need to start lifting women up and also financially empowering women. Financially empowering, because when women have money in their hands, they will tell you no matter where they are in the world. It changes everything. I didn't understand the power of storytelling until I got older, which is what's made me respect so much what you and others are doing to tell powerful stories about women or other people in societies. But one thing I learned this actually from a woman in Kenya, we were out doing a research project actually asking these women about contraceptives, what they knew, what they had access to. But it turned out what they wanted to tell us when we started asking about their families, how many children, is they wanted to tell us their story, their story of their life. And when we went back around to survey them a year later, what had changed their life the most was, yes, they had access to a contraceptive, but they said, you asked me my story? No one has ever asked me my story. And what it said to them, and so we said, well, what does that mean to you? And they said, it means I matter. And so I think, as we try to look to these next generations and I feel like once you get anywhere close to 50, it's about also about teaching the next generation. We need to teach young women and boys that we matter. Like we are enough the day we're born and we matter and our stories matter. What you're doing to tell strong female stories is just, it's not only changing Hollywood, but it's changing things in its role modeling for young girls and women who they can be in life. Have you had moments like that where you thought you were doing one thing and then it ended up being another? Definitely, I wrote a book five years ago and I just, just the people who've come up to me and said, I read it and guess what? I had my son read it and we formed a young boys book club to talk about this is what the world could look like. Like I just never even dreamt of that, right? So yeah, I think all of us being able to put ourselves out in the world is hugely important. I want to thank you for celebrating my 60th birthday with me and for being a role model to so many of us and so many young women and young men about showing them, you know, what can a woman be in society? Basically anything and everything, which is what you are. Well, thank you and I'm so happy for you. Happy birthday and I'm so happy that we're friends. Me too, I feel lovely. Happy birthday.