Olympic Champion Maggie MacNeil Reflects on Her EPIC Swimming Career

Welcome to the Swim Swam Podcast. I'm today's host, Coleman Hodges. Joining us today, she has won essentially every title you can in swimming. She's an Olympic champion, a long course world champion, a short course world champion, a Commonwealth Games champion, a Pan-American Games champion, an NCAA champion, a junior Pan-Pacific champion, and now she is officially a swammer. Today we're talking to Maggie McNeil. Maggie, thanks so much for being here. How's it going? Thanks for having me. It's going pretty well. This episode of the Swim Swam Podcast is sponsored by Commit Swimming, Swim Swam's exclusive team management software partner. Since 2015, Commit has been providing coaches with swimming's leading workout management software. And now, Commit has team management software too. Commit wants to help you make the switch from team unified to a simpler, more powerful solution. Their onboarding and customer service team will walk you through every step of the way. Check them out at CommitSwimming.com to book your demo today. That's C-O-M-M-I-T-Swimming.com. So this was big news. You're just coming off of the Paris Olympics. What made now the right time to hang up the goggles and step away from the pool for you? Yeah, I ended up traveling in Europe for a bit after Paris. I was there for about three weeks with some of my high school friends and it was really nice to not think about life in general. I didn't have to think about what I wanted to do after swimming. I didn't have to think about going back in the pool. It was very much just me in the moment with my friends who I'd known for a while. For me, I'm not Maggie the swimmer. I'm just a kid that they knew in high school and we sat together learning about osmosis in school. But I think that really opened my eyes to that fact that I'm really ready to move on to the next phase of my life. That's kind of what I'm working on right now and what this fall and the next year is going to be about. I'm really happy with everything I've ever achieved in my swimming career. I think that made me feel really at peace with the decision. Yeah, that sounds like a really nice way to step away from a sport that you've been doing for as long as you've been doing it and at as high of a level as you've been doing it. Did you think that that would be on the horizon for you going before the Paris Olympics or is that something you had thought about at all? I thought about retirement probably starting in January this year. I think it was either going to happen in December or it's going to have to happen after Paris. I wasn't too focused on that while I've been training for the Olympics, but it's kind of been in the back of my mind. Obviously, I love doing short course, but I think with the way that it times out for me to take my LSATs and focus on applications, I think it just made more sense for me to get a head start on it now. LSATs. Okay, so I guess that's a great transition. What does the next phase of life look like for you, I guess, academically or otherwise? I'm really excited, first of all, to just be able to do some other sports and do some things that I haven't been able to do in the past just because I've always been so focused on swimming and going to the Olympics and not wanting to jeopardize that. I want to go get a bike sometime in the probably eight or nine. Once it gets snowy enough out here, I really want to go back on the sea slopes. Again, I haven't done something like that since I was probably like 10. Definitely a list of sports and activities that I want to do that I haven't been able to because of swimming. As far as my career after sports, I'm currently spending at least eight hours a day on my LSAT course and preparing for that. It's been a lot. Now that I'm halfway through almost, I realized that I probably couldn't do this and swim at the same time. That also worked out really well. Hopefully, I'll apply to law school this fall. They're not due until the beginning of next year. I'll get into a school for fall of 2025. Then I'm also looking to do some internships potentially in Europe in January through the first six months of the year. It's been interesting for me trying to figure out what that next stage is. I mean, having an Olympic gold medal looks pretty good on a resume as far as being dedicated and hardworking, but as far as having real life experience, it's less prevalent on there for sure. Yeah, I feel like it stands out. Like you said, it stands out in one way, but maybe not in another way. That's pretty exciting. It's also, man, no rest for the weary. You're just going straight into it. When did you start this LSAT course? It's an intensive six-week class. It started two and a half weeks in right now. It's five hours of class a day plus homework, so I'm probably spending around eight or nine hours a day doing it. Then I have a practice test every weekend. That's intense. At least you got a little bit of a break from life. You got to go to Europe. I'm guessing you got to spend some time at home and maybe just relax a little bit. Yeah, so I'm home now. It's been really nice just to be with my family. My sister goes to school here at Western and lives at home. My whole family's here. I haven't spent this much time with them since COVID. I haven't been home this long since then either, so it's been nice to have that time. Yeah, it's been great to just have a normal life and not have to wake up at 5 a.m. for practice. I tend to be more of a night owl when I am given the opportunity. That's how my life has been unfolding right now, staying up late and doing some homework and spending time with my mom and my sister who are also night owls. It's been a complete 180, but I'm enjoying it so far. That's so cool to hear. I feel like you don't meet many swimmers who are naturally night owls. It certainly doesn't lend itself to them. It's great to hear that you step away from swimming and you kind of get to mesh back into your natural circadian rhythm, perhaps, which sounds nice. In terms of going to law school, is there something in particular that drew you to that, or do you have an area of focus that you know you might like to pursue? I'm keeping it pretty open-minded right now. If there's anything I've learned from high school and undergrad that my interests have definitely changed over the course of my life. I've grown up around lawyers, my uncle and my cousins, so I think that's definitely where I've seen that aspect of my life. Obviously, my mom's a doctor, so a little bit different there, but either way, I've always known I wanted to pursue further education. Yeah, well, it sounds exciting, both athletically and academically, so good luck with the course and with the LSAT itself. In terms of European internships, what made you want to pursue that? You don't need to explain it to me, it sounds cool enough, but do you have an area in there that you'd like to, again, pursue, or maybe a country of interest? Yeah, I'm applying to a couple different ones. I'm with the UN in Geneva and Vienna just to get kind of that experience, but I'm about to finish up some applications for the International Criminal Court in The Hague to get some experience there as well. I think I definitely want to do something more internationally based, like international law maybe, just because I've done so much traveling and have learned so much and experienced so much through swimming that I definitely want to be able to capitalize on that when it comes to my career that I'm going to be doing for the rest of my life. Yeah, it adds up, right? That's so cool that you're able to apply some of the travel and international experience you've gained from your sport into a career that you might have for much, much longer. For law schools, do you think you will apply in the U.S., in Europe, in Canada, all three? Definitely the U.S. and Canada, just to see kind of where I get in, but I mean, there's something really appealing about just being able to come home and go to Western and live at home and walk out my door and be on campus in two minutes, like we live so close that it just makes sense. But I've also been away a really long time and I mean, I do like my personal space, having lived by myself for that long. So I mean, there are pros and cons to both, but I'm definitely going to keep my options open. Would law school in Canada also be a three-year deal? Yeah, it's pretty similar to the States. Gotcha. Cool. Yeah, sounds like you've got a lot on your plate. So with all this happening, have you had time to reflect on your swimming career at all? And is there anything that has stood out to you, if you have? I think I have a lot more since I've come home in the last couple of weeks. With swimming, as I've said before, it's so go, go, go. Like the minute we finished in Tokyo, we were already counting down to Paris. And I think that's something that really needs to change in swimming and probably sports in general, where we get to take a little bit of time. And that's not a bad thing to kind of focus on what we just accomplished. And like in Tokyo, we had one of the greatest Olympics at the time for Swimming Canada, and we were already quickly moving on to see what's next. And I know that's how sport is. You need to get prepared. But I think we miss out on being able to celebrate with our teammates and just celebrate with our families, especially during COVID, just those accomplishments in general. So since I've been home, I've done a lot more of that. I have all of my stuff. I've been moving it slowly to the basement from my bedroom because it's a little crowded in there right now. And I have it all set up downstairs. So I went down there the other day just to clean up some stuff. And it's really remarkable what I have been able to achieve in such a short period of time. Like, yes, my swimming career has spanned 16 years, but I have only really been on the senior national team for five, or if you don't count 2020. But it's really crazy to kind of see a visual representation of everything that I've done. And I hope to be able to reflect more on it as I'm home longer and as I'm more removed from the sport. Did your experience in Paris, I guess, first off, how did you feel about your experience in Paris? And have you reflected on that at all? Yeah, I think it was a lot of trying to process during the meet. But also, when I went away to Europe with some of my friends, like I kind of put it out of my brain for the entire trip, just because something I didn't really want to think about, obviously, not exactly where I wanted to be. And I know that I put in so much more work and training than had been reflected at that meet. But I think, all in all, in the entirety of the Olympics, it was so much more fun and being able to actually experience a games atmosphere the way it was supposed to be was worth it in itself. Because of COVID, we were so locked down in Tokyo, we really couldn't do anything or meet anyone or we didn't really have the full experience. So I think, overall, it was a great time in Paris, even though regardless of how my swims were. How did you feel heading into Paris? I mean, did you have certain goals for yourself? And how close did you get to those? I definitely had goals for myself. I don't think I hit any of them, which is not a bad thing. I think when it's swimming, you have to learn how to win gracefully, but you also have to learn to lose as well. And I think it's those swims that taught me the most about myself throughout my career, not just in Paris. But I think I was feeling pretty good going into Paris. Obviously, I hadn't raced a lot heading in since the New Year. And I think that was one of the biggest impacting factors for me in Paris was because I had raced two times, maybe before trials, and then had trials and then had the Olympics. So being out of the college system for the first time in five years was definitely really different for me. And also being the only pro at LSU was a challenge as well, because I did a lot of things by myself, which I mean, I had done a little bit of growing up, but trying to do a threshold by yourself versus being with other people definitely makes things a lot harder. But I think overall, my swimming had felt really great. And my times were the best that I'd ever done. So I was feeling good in that respect, regardless of the lack of racing. Did that lack of racing come purposefully? Did you have just meets that you wanted to target and no other racing? Or was that more happenstance? I think it was happenstance for sure. So my first meet of the New Year was the Knoxville Pro Swim in January. And then obviously, I didn't have anything with conference and NCs, because pretty much North America, there's not much to do. So during the week of spring break and women's NCs, I went to Spain for two weeks to swim with Kylie and Ben. So that was really great to get some other pros and to get to spend some time with Kylie and Ben. And being in a familiar atmosphere was also really nice. I mean, obviously, I've never been to that part of Spain before, but knowing how Ben runs his programs and, and the sets they were doing, and I had confidence in that because I had been in Spain previously or not working with him previously in lead up to Tokyo. That was good. And then our trials were May. So I had the Canadian Open in April. So that was two meets that year and then trials in May. And unfortunately, because of Europeans and where the Olympics was, they had pushed Maren Ostrom up even earlier. So because it was the week after trials didn't really make sense for me to turn around and go race for three consecutive weeks without training at that point in time. So then, obviously, with American trials in June, there weren't really any North American meets. So I think with the timing of when our trials were, and the rest of the global calendar kind of catching up from COVID, it didn't line up well at all. That Yeah, that now that you say it, it's like, Oh, man, that is kind of a bummer. Yeah, I really wanted to do so Koli. Um, some of my teammates at school were going with their European teams, but we had to come back to con for staging for Paris two weeks after. So I was like, I don't want to go over there and then come back. They didn't really want to stay over there for that long either. So yeah, really, it really didn't work out in my favor. Oh, man. Yeah. I'm, I'm sorry to hear that. Because that's obviously, you know, you want all the ideal conditions heading into a big major meet, let alone Olympic Games. But so did your Do you feel like how you did in Paris, and especially given, you know, the work you put in before Paris? Was that a factor and all it when you were deciding to ultimately retire? I mean, was there? Was there any sense of Oh, I could give it one more go? Um, either way, I think I knew that that those would be my last long course swims. So I mean, I was pretty happy with most of them, to be completely honest. But it was more kind of a decision right in the moment that I was like, I think I'm ready to be on now. There were some factors. I mean, I was like, I want to keep going because I love short course. And obviously, prize money is not a bad thing if I want to pay for school too. But I was like, I mean, I've done like you said, at the beginning of kind of accomplished everything that there is to accomplish. And I think that seemed like a really good point in time for me to be like, sit back and say that I think I'm ready to move on. And that's a really hard thing for a lot of athletes is knowing when it is time to give it up. And I've known for years that I don't want to be swimming at 2830. So I think it just fit in my timeline really well. Yeah. So you said, you said, you said it earlier, the experience of like an actual games in Paris compared to Tokyo alone was worth the Olympic experience. But for your career, like you accomplished so much in such a short timeframe, like I think within two years, you won all of the titles that I said at the beginning. I'm curious where your motivation level was, you know, maybe in this Olympic season, especially as you said, being training alone, some of the time as a pro at Ellis as the only pro at LSU, you know, versus leading into Tokyo or leading into 22 or 23, when, you know, you hadn't accomplished every accolade in the book, essentially. Yeah, that's an interesting question, because I was still really motivated going to Paris, obviously, and it's an Olympics and being a reigning Olympic champ definitely has the pressure. And obviously, I want to do well for myself and for swimming Canada and for the country. But I would say my motivation was probably the lowest right after 2021 world short course after I'd broken my first world record. I wasn't happy at Michigan and I wasn't swimming well. And I was training like a six foot tall male sprinter, which is not what I've been doing for the past three years at all. So that was I think, when I was really struggling with the why why I was still doing it, because I had accomplished all of my goals by that point. But it wasn't until I went down to LSU between worlds and Commonwealth Games that I really was like, this is why like I because I love it. And I want to keep going because I love the experiences. And there's still some other things that I want to do. And that's what kind of kept me going to Paris. Obviously, I had two huge goals, which had never been done one of them, which had never been done by anyone, which was to repeat Olympic title in the hundred fly, which which still hasn't been done yet. Maybe by LA, someone will have done that. But yeah, so I would say definitely my motivation was probably the right around conference and NCS 2022. And of course, that's when I broke my elbow and everything was just not going the way it was supposed to. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's also kind of crazy that, again, in such a short time frame, you had those huge highs and huge lows. But did you do you feel like there was a very quick learning curve for you just in terms of I mean, as you said, you only spent four real years on the senior level national team. Do you feel like you had to learn on the fly, maybe more than other athletes who are in your position who, you know, maybe have done this a decade before they rack up as many titles as you did? 100%. And I think I really was thrown in the deep end at worlds in 2019. I think at that point, I was questioning if my swim at trials when I went 2757. Oh, was like a fluke. And I was like, maybe I shouldn't be on this team. Like, I don't know if I'm good enough to be here. And I think I confirmed with winning that title that I was like, this is this is legit. And I'm not kind of a one swim, never do anything like that ever again. And I think that was my biggest worry at that point. And I think my confidence kind of just grew from there. Obviously, there's a lot of COVID and a lot of pickups kind of along the way. And something that is really interesting that I have reflected on is I've kind of looked back at who won in 2019. And he won in Tokyo in 2020. On the women's side, there are only three people that defended their titles from 2019 and 2021. And I think that's something that's really interesting and something that I'm really, really proud of, just because I can show that I was swimming the best that I ever had before the pandemic. And despite Canada being one of the most locked down countries, and Michigan was also I think, probably one of the most locked down states as well. Being able to put together a performance that helped me to succeed off the back of COVID just showed the perseverance that I needed to kind of get through that time. Michigan had some crazy, crazy lockdown procedures, right? Yeah. So I kept delaying my return in my junior year. And we kept getting different people at different variants. And then right before Big Tens 2021, they shut down the entire athletic department for two weeks. The day after I found out that I had pre qualified for the Olympics. So this would have been January 23. We started a two week quarantine heading into Big Tens. And then I had another two week quarantine in April when I came back to Canada for trials. So definitely not not the ideal condition. So I think it just makes what I did in Tokyo more impressive when I think about it now. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's so much. I mean, two week quarantines were the norm, right? It's like what, what everyone was doing what you had to do, but like now on reflection, it's like, how did anyone swim fast with with in those conditions? But yeah, like you said, like, you're swimming your best in 19, you're swimming your best in 21. You were at a low point when you broke your elbow in 22. Yeah. Do you feel like, or sorry, what do you feel like you gained from that experience of of being injured, and also not being very motivated after at a time when, again, you had just accomplished so much? I don't think it was like a mix of emotions. I mean, it was great timing, I think for me to only be able to kick because it really gave me perspective, I got to do something that I was relatively good at. I mean, kicking was always my big thing. But I got to come home to Toronto, I trained here at the High Performance Centre. I ended up swimming trials, Hunter Fly with a broken elbow because I wanted to swim at Commonwealth Games. So I think it just gave me a whole perspective on the sport. And of course, after trials, I got COVID too. So it was a double whammy. But I think that really gave me time to sit back and figure out what I wanted to do because I had committed to doing a fifth year at that point. But now that Rick had moved, I was not going to stay at Michigan. So I was kind of looking at different options. And I think when I finally figured out where I wanted to be and what I wanted to do, that really kind of relit the fire that I wanted to keep going until Paris. Yeah, it's it's always I mean, change is always hard, I think, especially for athletes who have been at a certain place or with a certain coach for a long time. You know, it can be hard to rip that bandaid off, but then you get a fresh environment, you get new training partner, I mean, whatever the case may be, always seems like getting a change or just getting a new perspective is probably going to have some positive results, whether that's physically, mentally, emotionally, whatever that is. So that's, it seems like that. That's good to hear that you were able to give yourself that. And then, I guess, moving forward, did you still have goals that you really wanted to chase at that point? Yeah. And I think when I had this renewed love for swimming, when I went down to LSU, it wasn't until that year that I realized that you should never take winning for granted and going when I initially committed to Michigan, they had just come off of three big 10 team titles. And when I said I would go there, I was like, that's the one thing that I wanted to accomplish while I was there. And ironically, that's like the one thing that I never did. But then every year we came second, which was horrible. But somehow we always pulled out the, we always won that four by one free on the last night, which always helped. But when I came to LSU as the underdogs, we wanted to do something that we never had before. And I think going to that year, and we won the first, second and third relay titles in women's program history. And there'd been a 37-year break between the two. Those are up there as some of my favorite swims ever. And I think having that mentality, wanting to win the team title for four years really took a toll on how much fun I was having and the amount of pressure that I put on myself at that meet. But coming in as the underdogs really changed that mentality. And I was like, whatever happens, happens. But I've had such a great time with these girls, and I wanted to do it for them. So I think that really was what motivated me for that period of time. And I think that everything that went right could have and we accomplished some amazing things that year. That was a super fun SECs to watch. Especially, yeah, seeing LSU win some women's relays, something we were not accustomed to, but super cool to witness, especially after having me personally gotten to see you all train just a couple months prior to that. Super cool. So I guess, again, just kind of reflecting on your career, I guess you mentioned one thing, winning a Big Ten team title. Were there other things that you didn't get to accomplish or goals you had that you didn't quite hit in your career? Honestly, there's not that many. I mean, I won all three of my individual events at some point in NCs, I broke in a couple of NCW records. So I mean, the team title at Big Tens was, I think that one that stings the most, probably more than not breaking a long course world record. But I think those would be maybe the only two things. I mean, I never went to a Panpax, but I think going to Junior Panpax and winning that should count for something. Totally. I, yeah, I mean, not going to a Panpax. I don't want to speak out of turn, but that seems like the meat to miss. I don't know. In terms of things you did accomplish, or just experiences you did have, are there things that stick out in your career of like, oh, this was, I mean, again, you mentioned winning relays with LSU, that were some of the funnest swims you had. Were there other points in your career at that, whether it's a championship meets or just throughout a season? Yeah, oh my god, there's so many. Another one that sticks out to me is probably my NCAA title in 2021 in the 100 fly. Being the first person to go 48, I think coming off of COVID and lockdowns and everything, just that swim was, I mean, I wanted the ring. I think that was the main reason behind why I wanted to win a team title, but I got a ring anyway. So I think that was great. And I didn't realize until later on that I had broken 49 when I was doing the race. So that one is up there. I mean, I think winning at the Olympics is definitely up there. I'm not saying that it's not. I mean, obviously I wish it could have been with family and in different circumstances, but I'm still really proud of everything that I'd gone through until that point. Gosh. I mean, I remember my first world record and backstroke. That was another pretty, pretty crazy one. Um, Pan Ams winning five gold medals was also another, another highlight being part of Pan Am sports. The team was also really incredible getting to meet other athletes from different sports. That's not something we got to do in Tokyo. Um, this could go on forever, but I think those are some of my main highlights. Yeah. Looking at that, at that 2023 Pan Am games, you won seven medals there, which is insane. Uh, as you said, five gold, a silver and a bronze. Um, I feel like that's kind of an underrated meet just there's always really fast swims there. As you said, it's, it's a games environment. So I think you'd probably do get a lot more intermingling of athletes. Um, so it's yeah, but what a performance there did you, you had to have one swimmer of the meet there, right? Yeah. I won, um, I won athlete of the games at the Pan Am sports boards in December, but that was my first time swimming freestyle internationally. So that was a big step. I think for that part of my swimming career, I'd always done backstroke short course a little bit, but my freestyle had kind of been one of the slower ones to come around. So being able to win a hundred and tie with the 50, especially when my dive I entered, like I was having this real hard problem in 2023, the fall at the Athens world cup, I dove in like Superman and I couldn't get my hands together for multiple races. And I was like, this isn't good. Of course, in the 53 at Pan Ams, but yeah, but being able to do freestyle and just kind of show my range was something I'm really proud of too. You dove in like Superman and you still won the 50 free. Yeah. Cause like my hands, they'd come together, but then like somehow they'd like separate or I like miss them completely. It was fine. I, do you, do you know if a race video of this exists? There's a race video. You can't tell super well, but I think you can, if you like look closely. Yeah. Okay. I might have to go do some research. Commonwealth games, 50 fly. I also dove in with that. In the fifties. That's like the amazing part. Right. Like so many things can go wrong, but I guess for you, it doesn't matter if they do, you can still do it. The short course 50 fly from 2022 worlds I think is also up there. I was eighth at the 25 and tied the 50. So there's those funny ones where it's like, I don't know how I did that are also funny ones to kind of think back on. You were eight. Okay. I have to go watch this video now too. That's amazing. Yeah. 2464 tied with Tory husk for gold. Wow. What, what, tell me about that race. What, how do you analyze it now? I just think it's kind of funny. I mean, the 50 is so short, there's not that much you can analyze anyways, but I had a really great meet at the Toronto world cup. That would be one of the highlight meets. I think for me, just because we hadn't had a really, really big crowd in sometimes, especially in Toronto, because swimming in Canada is getting more popular, but we're still not at the level of Australia or even the U S but that meet was really great. We had so many little kids and, and to have an international competition in Canada was great. But I had some great races there. I think it was a 24 or seven in my 55 there. So heading into short course worlds of Melbourne, I just wanted to be around the same range, I guess, but I went to best time, which is good, but yeah, definitely not how you should swim up 50. Did, uh, do you remember technically like anything about the race? I mean, did you, did you, you did Superman on the start or no? I took two breaths on the first 25. I need air. What can I say? Are you someone who would know breath of any 50 short course or a long course? I think when I went my best time long course, I did, I did a 50 fly in the 50 free at trials last year, 2023. That was my five, seven. And I think I took eight breaths. I think that's a world record. Yeah. I don't know. As an asthmatic, I think I just take air whenever I need it. But I think I've been, I've done some studies with Gary Hall some year before, and I think we determined that breathing for me makes no difference. So he's like, take care if you need it. So I think I've just always lived by that. I do feel like that's one thing that doesn't get talked about enough in, in I guess, mainstream swimming is like, obviously, typically breathing throws your body position out of whack, but then also oxygen helps you swim faster. So like kind of balancing that, depending on what race it is. Definitely give and take. I think, I mean, my fly breath is so quick, but my freestyle, which you would always say I could throw it. Like, I could catch a fish from your mouth because your mouth is hanging open for like so long. So I think definitely it's different. He tried to get me to go no breath for 50 yards, but I couldn't do it. So I did one on the first 25 and then no breath on the second. No breath is a no brainer. Definitely not. I, I always, I always feel that way. I think it's easier to take a breath on the first 25 than it is on the second, but I feel like a lot of people don't. And I'm curious, what is your rationale for that? I think because my underwater is so strong, I need all the oxygen I can to maximize it and do it at the level that I know I'm capable of. So I think if I was oxygen deprived already, it wouldn't, wouldn't go very well and it wouldn't be to my advantage. I appreciate hearing that. Yeah. Okay. Just as I suspected. Nice. Okay. These, this is, this is so fun to geek out about all these different races. You still have the world record in the 50 meter short course meter backstroke. Um, it almost got broken recently, but it didn't. Do you think it will withstand until 2025? Definitely not. I definitely don't think so. I was texting with Kaylee after her 100 back and I was like, can you go break my 50 now? I hadn't told her that I was retiring at that point. She's like, I'll leave it for you. But no, I think Kaylee definitely deserves it. And I think it'd be cool for her to get it. Cause I think that's the only one that she hasn't had, but I think that would be really awesome. Really awesome. She's so good at backstroke. As, as someone who dabbles in backstroke, what are your thoughts on Kaylee McHugh? I mean, it just seems like we are in such a backstroke rich era right now. What does it feel like for you? I'll rephrase the question. What does it feel like for you to be a world record holder in a time when we have Kaylee McEwen, Reagan Smith, Kylie Moss? I mean, that's just the tip, right? Like to have your name etched in there as well. It's crazy. I mean, I love Kai so much. She's one of my best friends on the national team and it's been great getting to know her and she's taught me so much over my short couple of years on the national team, but world backstroke is truly incredible right now. And I got goosebumps watching both of her races in Paris. They were all so close, but Kaylee is one of the funniest people that I know. And as a Canadian, we love the Aussies for sure. But the fact that she's also blind, as blind as me, I think definitely bonds us a little bit more. Whenever I see a picture that she posts of her squinting, I'm like right there with you, bud. She's, she's great. And, and it's really amazing what she's been able to accomplish in adversity and just put up fast performances all the time, even like at the beginning of the year. No kidding. Like this time, you know, it's like take a break and she can't even do that. She's like, I got, I'm bored. I want to go race. Yeah. That's yeah. That's insane to me. But it's you've again, you've done it all backstroke freestyle butterfly. Are you the kind of now swammer who will like not touch a pool for years? Or will you stay in touch with the water for a while? So funny enough, I'm running some clinics. I have one this weekend, actually, and I have to get in the pool. So it'll be the first time I'll be in a pool in a while. But I have given myself like a five year clock before I do any type of training in a pool. There's a bunch of other sports that I want to do first. And I think I would enjoy that more. And then if I decide to get in just for fitness, or if I decide I want to do masters at some point, the option is there. But I know it's such a great way to stay active when you get older and just having the low pressure and being in the water. But yeah, right now, I'm definitely not not heading back into a pool anytime soon. What does that mean? A five year clock? Like you want to be out of the pool for five years? Oh, right. So you're you are you are committed to not to not swimming. I love it. Yeah. Good for you. I feel like that is a downfall of being a swimmer is that athletically maybe we're not always the best on land. Yeah, COVID was hard for that reason. And that's why I opened my backyard pool because I'm like, I can't run. We got an elliptical in the basement. But I was like, don't really like that either. So swimming was was it? Yeah. Well, good for you for getting out there. Getting on land. That's admirable. Wow. Well, Maggie, thanks so much for taking the time to sit down and dissect your entire career with us. It's it's been a blast. Any parting thoughts, any any wisdom you want to share with the youth that you've learned from swimming before you sign off? I don't even know. There's so many things I would tell kids, but I think just to have fun. And that's something that has wavered for me during the course of my career. And I mean, obviously, it's easier to have fun when you're at like a conference meet versus the Olympic final. But just remembering why you got into the sport to begin with. I mean, I've shared a lot of young pictures of myself lately. And just having to dig through those is it's really cool, because that's who I was when I started swimming, obviously speedo all the way for sure. But just loving the water and loving being around the friends and people that I've I've made over the course of my career. And now that I'm done with swimming, I can't wait to travel and go see some of them and not just see the pool in the airport. You've been listening to the Swim Swam podcast. Stay tuned for new episodes every week. You can take Swim Swam podcast on the go by subscribing on your favorite podcast platform. Look for links in the description below. And be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel for more videos as well.