P!nk: 'TRUSTFALL', Touring & Motherhood | Apple Music

I'm going to say it again for the people so they know exactly what was going on behind the scenes, but I'll only say this, you're the best. You are the best. I'm so happy that we're finally getting a chance to meet face to face and talk about this amazing record. And oh, there's so much to talk about. I have that feeling in my stomach of excitement and anticipation because we've never really... I have the same feeling. Well, you said something really telling before, which I thought was really lovely. You're like, I'm just getting my feet wet. I'm getting back into it. And I think we have to acknowledge and not take for granted that life is very multifaceted. It's not like there's one lane that we stick to. There's a time to be pink and there's a time to be mum and a time to be a member of the community and a time to crouch at the bar and a time to stand up straight. And what I don't want to ever assume with artists in particular, artists like yourself who've achieved so much is that just because you have an album to come, that you're like, oh, my cape is on. It takes a second to warm up, even though you actually have a cape on. I do have a cape on at this moment. Yeah, no, for me, I am always the same person, but I have to remember that now I'm speaking to a larger group. So I have to actually think about the words that come out of my mouth. Do you, though? I think about them as I'm saying them. That's not why we love you, by the way. My feelings are like spaghetti. I throw them at the wall and if they stick, that's actually really how I feel. But I don't know it until I say it out loud. I'm an out loud processor. Okay, so I'm actually an internal processor. I'm an overthinker and I question everything. And there are times when I step out on a limb and only at this mature age have I been able to recognize that it's okay to say something that makes me feel a little uncomfortable in the moment. Time will probably be kind to that statement. How do you sort of process your thoughts outside of music? Because you are an outspoken and brilliant human who stands up for righteous things. I don't. I don't second guess that. My dad raised me to be a fighter and yeah, I mean, I credit him. He believed that one person could make a difference. He was a letter writer. They called him Mr. Cause. He was a Vietnam vet, loved music, and had me marching on Washington since I was three years old. My stepmom was partly responsible for erecting the nurse statue in Washington, D.C. And my whole family is military, so I'm used to people being of service and being involved. My mom is a nurse. I just feel things deeply and passionately and I never get behind something I don't truly believe in. But if I really believe on it, I will die on that mountain. That's going to be my mountain. And I think I had a conversation with my daughter, a kind of teary conversation, because we have security and I'm not a person that ever uses security because as my security says, I'm not protecting her. I'm protecting you from her. But I have a lot of death threats all the time. And so when you have children, it's like, yeah, you can't play. So Willow said to me, why do you do it? And I said, wait, why do you do what? Have security or put us in a position where we have death threats? Put us in a position where we have to fight. Why do you fight? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why do we have this attention? Yeah. And I said, because it's in me and it's the right thing to do. And you know, I want to live forever. I want to live forever. Of course, I want to be with you forever, but I'm not going to be here forever. And so I have to use my time. What are you going to do with your one precious life? I'm going to use it. I'm going to use it until it dies from it. And if you can help, you should. If you can reach behind you and help somebody, put your hand back and also be humble enough to receive. Put your hand forward sometimes, too, and receive the help. But if it's not in you, then you can do it in other ways. You can donate. You can vote. You can petition. You can go read a book to an elderly person that's alone, deliver meals. There's so many ways you can be involved and help me. I have a platform. I have a mouth. I have I am educated and engaged and I participate. This is how I participate. Yeah. You're inspiring in that regard. Did she get it? Did you see it in her eyes? She did. She gets it. And she's also an internal processor. So I have to give her time. Which is my lesson. It's interesting, too, because if you talk about the generational difference, you as a child watching your parents come from military backgrounds and from just that brief statement, your father came from fighting a war to fight to fighting for what he believed in at home. Both fights. Your mom was fighting to save people's lives. And erecting statues. First generation game changers. You are now first generation successful out of the park. Without them, it wouldn't have happened. But the point being that the way she processes that is so different to how you process that. You were raised in the fight. I know. She's still seeing you fight, but she's like, I don't see a fight around us. I see what mommy and daddy have achieved in a strange way. So it's an interesting. But she's also been around the world with me. My kids come with me on tour. So we've been all over the place. We go. We visit children's hospitals. We you know, she donates to charity. She she head rate. She works the tour. So she works dancers quick change. And she gave all her money when I gave some of my money to a hospital in Philadelphia. She wanted to give her money to the local hospital. She's involved. She's smart. And she's also allergic to injustice. So I think she's asking me, she's needing reassurance, I think, from me that I know what I'm doing. I don't think any of us have that anymore. So we just have to. I was going to say, there must be times when you're not even sure. No, I'm not. The world we live in now, it's like, that's why the album's called Trustfall. That's right. But that's true. That's where it came from. That's true. And I picked it up straight away. And even though you're talking about very specific subjects in some cases, at least I took them as such, and you dial into the detail in the most beautiful way, there is an overarching sense of fighting for what's right on this record, personally and beyond. Yes, there is. And then there's also the part where you're like, you know what, I'm going to dance. And there is that too. I'm so exhausted. I'm just going to dance. I'm going to take my clothes off and I'm going to dance. I'm going to roller skate. Which is really, for me as a fan, is really beautiful because when we first got to know you, the fight was there, but it was like, you were fighting the individuals at the party. It was like, I don't know what's going on outside this room. I won't fight anybody. Right? And then it became this thing of like, to your point, that allergy to injustice started to rise to the surface and met the voice that you had developed and boom, we started having impact people. It's nice to hear you get back to that place where it's like, I can do both. Yeah, you have to. You have to. And that's sort of like me getting my feet wet is also, I can do both. I will be at my son's basketball game on Friday and they're sick. So that's hilarious. There's always one kid, don't you find when there's six, no disrespect to the other kids, but one kid is the only kid that that's winning everything, right? When our kid was six feet possible, there was one kid who could shoot threes, one kid who could loo layups, one kid who could really dribble and everyone else was like, yeah, that guy. Well, I tried him out in soccer and he was like dancing and popping and locking and picking flowers and I'm pretty sure he didn't even know there was a ball. I got told off by my grandfather as a kid because I was waving my arms around on the field and he was just like, dude, there is a ball out there. You can go get it. I kept saying that to Jameson and the coach was like, dude, you're off sides again. And he's literally like, he's like the Viking in that on YouTube and he's so cute too. It's very charming. Yeah. So we're trying out basketball. There's no waiting around in basketball. You can run all day in basketball, nonstop. You'll wear them out. That's a good idea. I mean, and then I'm also putting out a record. You're also putting out a record. Yeah. I like, I like, I like life. I like that you like life. I like life. I like that you take time for life. Yeah, I really do. I like that you check out completely and you go, nah, I'm, I just toured the world three times over and, and I just had a massive success with this album and people love it and that's a good place for me to go and do something else from it. Yeah. I do do that a lot. What does it feel like outside of this? Having a family was really important to me because my family life was screwed as a kid and I'm super affectionate and cuddly and goofy and just doing music wasn't enough for me. I was lonely. I was so lonely. It's a very lonely business. And I really wanted to have a family and it was just as important to me as ambition. And so, cause I didn't want it if it was just, if this is the carrot, I've eaten it. I'm still hungry. I'm hungry. I'm empty. And I love writing songs. I love singing songs. I love performing. Sitting with a guitar is one of my favorite things I'll ever do, but cuddling with my babies and, and taking them camping and being dirty for three days is also one of the coolest things I'll ever do. And making wine also happens to be pretty cool. Yeah. It's down here. It's not as cool as cuddling and camping and performing, but it's, it's cool. It's pretty cool. It's, I mean, you literally are grounding yourself. You're literally grounding yourself and finding a way to get back to that thing that inspired you in the first place. And you strike me as the kind of person that got your hands dirty before you owned a winery. Oh yeah. I'm a student. It's such a funny thing because I'm a high school dropout and people hear that and they're like, wow. Yeah. Okay. What did you learn from that? From dropping out of high school? Not at the specific time, but looking back on it, what did you learn from, from the fact that you didn't necessarily fit into that box and yet you've broken out of every box throughout your whole life? I mean, I have such opinions about the school and authority and, um, education and where it comes from. So I might not be the best person to talk to about that. Most people with opinions are the perfect people to talk to about things. I think if you're paying attention, life will educate you as much as a textbook. And I knew that I was not going to follow the traditional path. I was, my parents were like, you have to get an education. You need something to fall back on. I was like, but I'm not falling back. But bless them. I'm moving forward. The fear our parents had of us not being ready, right? And now you're a parent, you understand, like the biggest fear we have is that they're not prepared. I know. But I'm a girl from Doylestown that said she was going to be a famous rock star. My mom was like, that's adorable. Please God, do something with your life. But I feel like I signed up for it before I got here. So I knew there was no telling me no, and there was nothing that was going to stop me. So I just went. I love learning. If I ever went back to school, it would be for psychology, but, um, I, I love learning and I've gotten to learn a lot from traveling too. People should just travel before they talk. I was going to say, I mean, I'm sure you do have a couple of honorary doctorates, but you definitely have an honor. I did win an argument with my therapist and I was pretty proud about that. I've yet to do that. I've gotten really close though. You know, I get, I kind of revert with my therapist where I, when I know I'm right and he knows I'm right and he doesn't want to give it to me. I just, I'm like, oh, you're such a jerk. He should give it to you. Yeah. He's doesn't want to, you don't want to hand me any W's in a hurry, but it's good. I love it. How long have you been doing therapy? Since I was like, well, my mom threw me on a therapist couch when I was 14, but that didn't work out. Um, I think the therapist told her that the wrong person was on the couch and then we ran over a lot of bushes on the way out of there. Yeah, it was pretty, one of my, it was a good day. That's a good day. My first assistant was my best friend. She was my everything and she kind of helped me put my life back together. And she was, she was my assistant, but she was really my priest, my lover, my mother, my friend. And she wanted to quit me and go have a life and not tour anymore. And I was a person that would just move on from people. I was just, I would lost so many people too. Right. I'll leave you before you leave me. Yeah. And just how a lot of friends die too. So I'm really good at saying goodbye. As in you're terrible at saying goodbye. You just bounced. Yeah. I just bounce. I just walked backwards. And then she made me go to therapy with her. She made me go to couples counseling so that I wouldn't never speak to her again. I think at that moment I was, I was thinking you can quit, but I can't. And so you, but then she's, she's a God mom of my baby. She's, I'm the God mom of her. She's my friend. I wish friends, more friends went to therapy together. I agree. You know what I mean? Agree. Like it's like a very important relationship. We are close. I think as a society to getting past this idea of therapy being this narcissistic, desperate solution. I actually think the idea of they got a lot of for it. And I've said this to them for what it's worth. I think Chris and Gwyneth that conscious uncoupling idea of going to therapy to separate. Yeah. Absolutely. If Carrie and I ever do it, we're going to throw a divorce party. Yeah. Like a wedding. It's going to be awesome. It's going to be so fun. I mean, you've already been, yeah, but I'd expect it from you too, because you know, even when you had to acknowledge the challenges in your relationship, you put it in videos, you were open about it. That's cool. I mean, it's a part of it. Life is messy. That's why it's so great. This album is like, just to me, it is such a mood board of, of, of passions and interests and maladies and ideas. And there's just nothing off the table here. I mean, there is a full on, full blown, authentic, deep club record here. The title track is a deep club record. You're not flirting with it. Like this is like, you could put this at one in the morning at Pasha and it's going to hold its own. I was a candy raver. What's that? Okay. I'm from, I'm from New Zealand via London. That's new to me. Candy raver? Yeah. Uh, early nineties raves. I used to dress up like a bumblebee occasionally. Pop some candy. Yeah. I once woke up in a bathtub full of Vicks Vaporub. How do you fill a bathtub with Vicks Vaporub? It's a very small. I didn't do it. I was at a friend's house. I mean, I guess you'd call them a friend. I met them. That's not a friend. Friends don't do that. Yeah, they do. It was awesome. That's an overwhelming experience. If I put a, if I put an index finger under my nose with a full blown head cold, I'm having a rough time. You slipped in a bathtub. Vicks Vaporub. That was awesome. I like candy necklaces on. That's amazing. Oh, I'd imagine it took you three weeks to lose that smell. It's like a butter croissant. It's like patchouli. Yeah. Right? You just never get rid of it. Never get rid of it. You know those like extra potent croissants and you're like, why the f**k does everything smell of butter? It's been three days. Yeah. The trust fall. It is. I mean, Fred and Johnny just, I just. They're delicious human beings. Well, they get you. They put you in a place where you've got to lean into that space that people don't know you for, but you know it. And what's really cool for me is that now I know you get it as a fan of that music. I'm not like, oh, she's struggling with, she's struggling there. She, she loves it, but she doesn't know it. Yeah. You know it. Yeah. That's been really fun to record that. It was really fun. And it's, it's also fun when, back in the day, I believe it was a woman's day. Yeah. Um, it used to be all these big, big studios with big boards and the vocal booth, and it was all just so professional. And now it's like, I'm hanging out at my friend's house with a mic that looks just like this and we're done. Yeah. That's it. It's the best. Let's have some wine. I'd imagine that wine comes pretty quick for you in the studio when you feel it, because you have such an innate ability to perform. So for someone who can step on a stage, have the confidence that you can hold those notes, entertain and do it with feeling. How do you get to that place where you challenge yourself on the record, where you really dig deep? There's some powerful performances on this album. What do you have to do to get there? Because sometimes having, I say to my kids, if you have talent, you got to work three times harder. I always am so jealous of like halfway decent singers because they sound so freaking cool and I try to sound cool and I'm like, you sound like Celine, I'm not as good as Celine Dion, but you know what I mean? Yeah. Like I sound like I'm on Broadway and I'm trying to be so hard to be cool and I'm never going to be cool because I'm a trained singer. You were blessed with that voice and you were blessed with it too. But it's like when I was doing Just Give Me A Reason with Nate, he's also, I believe, belongs on Broadway, but he's like, oh yeah, and he's got that like, cool. See, I can't even do it right now. It's got that like cool thing. And I'm like, oh, he's like, yeah, maybe not. This is not Annie. I was like, this isn't Annie? Like, how do I do it? It's not, how do I not Annie? He's a keeper. If he can be that honest with you in that moment, he's a real friend. He's a keeper, maybe less Annie. I'm trying to be cool, Nate. I walk around like an open wound, so it's not hard for me to get places. I like to be uncomfortable. I like to sing. I like to, like Linda Perry. That was where that came from for me was listening to her voice. I could feel her pain and she's not the best technically trained, like she's not. Um, I just lost who I was thinking of. Mary Poppins. What's her name? Mary Poppins. Julie Andrews. Thank you, Julie. Oh my God. My brain broke. Don't worry about it. Um, like Julie Andrews, she sings like Linda. Like she sings what went, what Linda went through. And that's where I live. I'm just living that. Bono, man, for me on his day. Yeah. Crazy. Doesn't get enough credit for it because of the success and everything that goes with it. Hear that guy sing with or without you live. Yeah. Beautiful, beautiful. No one else can do it. And that was what Sinead used to do for me too. I'm trying to think of a few that really kind of get me there these days. I mean, Tom. Beautiful. Tom, you're, I mean, just, just people who can actually get to a place where it goes beyond the note. It's like an, it's like in between the notes. And that to me is where the emotion lives. That's where, and there's some real moments on this album where that, where that happens. You know, that song with First Aid Kit is beautiful. I love First Aid Kit. And what a, what a wonderful collaboration. It's so wonderful to think that you're able to bring First Aid Kit, Lumineers, and put them on an album with a song like Trustful. I know. Isn't that fantastic? But I've, I have fought to keep that, that jar open. I've always been a mystery bag. For some reason, I think I'm excited about this album in the, in, in the way I kind of was excited about Misunderstood because I, it's just, it's a body of work, even though it's all kinds of genres. And I think it's awesome that I can be this pop star, right? The polarizing pop star that then is like, Hey, Lumineers, you guys want to do a song? And they're like, yeah, cool. I'm like, awesome. Stapleton. You want to sing a song? And he's like, absolutely. First Aid Kit. I'm like, who am I? This is rad. And Eminem and all, and everything in between, whatever. That's so, yeah, that's what being polarizing affords you. That's what you want to be, right? If, if you were in one box, you want to be like, I don't fit into that box you're in. Right. You know, you are a trailblazer. We'll get to that again in a second. But what's really interesting to me about being a trailblazer is I, and I said this some of the other day, is that that's actually quite a lonely place to be because you're forging forward and trying things first and doing things. And even if you're successful at it, everyone thinks that you're weird and you're this and you're that, and they don't realize that's the strength of it. Has it been at times quite. I don't look at myself as a trailblazer. Oh, wow. Really? I mean, I guess like, okay, I fly and people think that's weird. No, but no, but what's, no, but what you sing about, what you, what you and the way you present your songs and the fact that you're absolutely genre agnostic. I know that term gets thrown around, but I've never heard it and I like it. I can, I am, I'm an atheist when it comes to genres and lines. There's a, there's a hybrid there. And Kiwi's are really good at hybrid words. There's a creative atheist, there's a creatheist. That's fantastic. I'm going to drop one for myself. You're a creatheist. I'm a creatheist. You know, I, I do think you're a trailblazer. Um, and people keep calling you that. That's what, that's really, yes, pink. I hate compliments. You came to the wrong place, man. I really do much better with criticism. Positive reinforcement is really not my thing. So how does someone who struggles with, um, positive reinforcement get to the point where, you know, you're playing to millions of people on every single tour? Cause that's like group therapy. That's not like, Hey, look at me. Hey, everybody come look how cool I look. I hate to break it to you, but when you step on stage in a stadium and it's your show, there's a lot of hate. I mean, it's freaking cool, but it's not, but I'm not doing that. Like, Hey, look at me. I'm doing like, you're on a trapeze, but I'm like, but I'm trying not to die. I'm having fun. I literally sit in this harness with my two strongest rigors under the stage. And I'm thinking to myself, like, I'm tired. I'm, am I sad? Willow was sad when I made her go home tonight and now she's having a bath and I'm not there. She didn't like her chocolate and then bam. And I'm like, it's awesome. It's so good. Yeah. I'm trying to figure out though, in our first proper sit down conversation, our chat, our first get to know our first impression, I'm trying to figure out how much of this is humility and how much is just outright denial because, you know, you've sold a hundred, because you've sold 135 million albums. No, I haven't. That's a lie. Okay. It's outright denial. We have, ladies and gentlemen, we have our verdict. It's outright denial because that is factually correct. I don't know about that. You've sold a lot of albums and a lot of singles, a lot of songs, a lot of records. Um, and you know, over the last 10 years in particular, people have been queuing up to tell you what you mean as a whole. Now you're someone who's creatively restless and looking for new challenges all the time. You don't make this album unless you're ready to make something new. That's true. New, new, new, new, new. And yet everyone wants to give you a star here and call you an icon there. And the greatest woman of music of the last 300. No, but you know what I'm saying? Now, hang on. There's a sting in the tower here. I get it. No positive reinforcement. So here comes the sting. Give it to me. Right. I love it. How does that feel for somebody who doesn't like positive reinforcement, has no idea how many records they've sold and doesn't really consider themselves to be a trailblazer when people tell you from a podium, our guest today has sold this many albums, has achieved all of this, and is standing here today to receive this. It must feel awkward. It's awkward. It makes me nauseous. And then I have to talk in front of people, which is my also one of my least favorite things to do. And then they're going to record it. So it'll be like, I can't deny it. I said that. And then I get out of there as fast as humanly possible. Well, here's the good news. Pretty much all of them have been given to you now. I mean, there's a few real lifetime achievement ones coming in the next 40 years, but I know, but then it makes you feel like, am I being put out to pasture? Well, no, because like I said, only you can decide that. No, I'm still good. I'm stronger than I've ever been. This is one of the best albums I will ever make. And I'm going on a stadium tour in America. That part's cool. That I can feel because I had to eat so much in this country. I would go over to New Zealand and Australia and I would play a hundred arenas and I would come back to America and play the 930 club. And there'd be like 12 people there. And it was humbling. And I loved it. I was going to say, that's what you want. You don't want to be a positive reinforcement. I know. And I loved it. I did love it. I remember this. They sent this limo to pick me up and it was so old. It had the curtains that you would pull across the window. It's not like, yo guys, we made it. Like Bruce does millions. It was very humbling. But now, you know, but I think if you want to be a great performer, you have to be able to play every kind of venue, every kind of venue. So for me, when I put a show together, it's like, all right, yeah, it's a stadium, but not to me, to me, I want to be sitting with the person that's in the very back and how do I do that? And then yeah. Okay. Smoke and mirrors, but all of that has to be able to be stripped away and you have to be able to sit down with one guitar and sing the entire set and it has to be beautiful because at the end of the day, it's about the music. So can you pass an instrument without touching it? Can you, do you feel drawn to the guitar every day? Do you love to just- I like piano the most. I'm trying to get my son to be a drummer. Cause he likes to hit things. I was going to say most young boys and girls are dying to be drummers. Yeah. In fact, it's the parents who are just like, why don't you just put the piano on a slightly muted setting and play that? That would be really helpful for me while I'm working. I like noise. Yeah. I love it too. And when you sit down to play, what is it to you when you're not writing, when you're not doing that? Is it, is it a piece? Is it just a place of peace? Yeah. It's just peace. To play piano and sing is just, it's so beautiful. And I can only play three songs. I'm, I'm not actually a musician. I can play like three songs on the guitar. You're really stretching me now. Three songs on the piano. You're pushing my patience. I'm not lying. I know. I'm sure, but you know, I'm sure. When you were growing up, you know, your parents, like we talked a little bit about it, they had other priorities, but what role did music play in it? Why did you want to be a rockstar from a young age? Music was everywhere. In our house. Like what? Oh, um, my dad was into Don McLean, Billy Joel, Credence, um, Great American Songbook. Yeah. Rod Stewart. With a bit of Scottish tone. And my mom was like Patsy Cline, Johnny Cash, um, Patti LaBelle, Dionne Warwick. And then my brother was Two Live Crew and Tool and Metallica and Guns N' Roses. Wow. And then I was Annie, of course, one of the greatest things ever written. Um, Les Mis, Phantom of the Opera, Madonna, Bette Midler, Whitney Houston. I was like real pop, but it was all around me. And my dad could play the shit out of a guitar. And he was a finger picker and he, he and I would harmonize together and every night before bed. That's beautiful. Just loved it. That's beautiful. So what was it like when they started to see things happen for you? Because it's one thing to be living with that music and okay. At some point they're going to get past that whole preparation to fail. They're going to stop preparing you to fail. Yeah. And they're going to accept that you're going to succeed. Never happened? Not really. I got kicked out of my house when I was 15 and I dropped out of school and I was homeless and then I got a record deal. So it was a rocky road there, but, but I begged my mom for singing lessons at nine years old and she said yes. And she found the money for it. And I started bands in junior high school. I sang in church. I was all over the place, but it was, it was on, it was on. It was like, if you don't get out of my way, I'm going to walk over you. I'm going to do music. Let me ask you a broad question about your experience. Cause the music industry is one thing. The arts and being creative is one thing. The music industry is a whole other thing. You've been able to bend it to your will, but how has that experience been for you? When I first started, um, I'd say about four years in, I wanted to write a book called Artist to Artist, How to Get F***ed 101, because I felt like I had done all of the things that you shouldn't do, or all of the people around me that were supposed to be trustworthy were not. And they screwed me over so hard that I managed myself for a long time. And I also had the benefit of having a record deal and not getting to put an album out for four years. So I'm 16 to 20, 19 and a half, and I'm up at the record label every day cause I'm bored. So I'm learning what every single person does, pestering the crap out of everybody. What do you do? What's your job? What do you do? Can I hang out with you today? And then I was so bored. I got a job at a gas station cause the per diem was broke. Yeah, that's the other thing about the industry is they pay you nothing. They pay you nothing. And I was like, where, how am I going to pay for my weed? So I, and I really wanted this catsuit at BB. That's what I renegotiated my record deal for. It was a catsuit at BB. It was really cute. It was like velvet. Yeah. I had a hard time. I had some real teachers, real teachers in my life, but it taught me. And then I happened to have now a 21 year relationship with the greatest manager that's ever lived. He's incredible. He's the best. I have to be careful not to gas him too hard. Cause Roger Davies, Australians don't like positive reinforce. And I was like an abused puppy when I met him and he was kind of slowing down possibly. And I was right before I was like, and I want to do, I want to get the party started to be the first single. And this is what I want the video to be. And, and my business manager. Who's I've also been with for 20 years now. She said that he called her that day and said, she's a brat and she's going to be the next one. And he was not lying. He was not lying. It's interesting. You know, that relationship is so fascinating. Not enough emphasis gets placed on the, on those core values, the core values of those were kind of relationships because they really are enormously important toward helping you form and hold onto the identity, the only identity that matters. They protect your identity from everything else. But to your point, Roger had achieved so much already working with other artists who came in who were probably kind of broken and is obviously has a very high IQ and an amazing ability to speak human, not just industry. And, and yet you chose to work with him when there was probably 10 or 15 young height managers down the corner who had hit artists who would be chewing at the bit to work with you. So why did you choose that? What was the drawing? What was the gravity? Um, I, I trusted him immediately and I didn't believe in that word. That was the first time you really felt it. I felt trust and I was like, well, I'm going to let it kill me. And also, you know, he, you look at who he was working with also. He's working with Joe Cocker, Tina Turner, Sade, Cher, Janet Jackson. That's your gang. And I'm like, well, that's what I want to do, right? I want to be a performer. I'm never going to win the popularity contest or be, um, like the, the pretty one that can sell perfume, but I know how to work hard and I know how to pound the pavement and I know how to do this. And he was going to help me do that. And so I inherited years and years and years of the best team on the road. And I have the best team, 200 people, the people that build my stage every night. Like I would, I would throw someone else in front of a bus for them. That's good. I'll remember that. Um, no, I mean, what, what, what you achieve when it's time to take the music to the people is like one of the finest pieces of machinery I've ever experienced. Yeah. It's kind of amazing. Yeah. It's building a city in a day. It's like Ferrari Formula One. It's just like. Yeah. It's why I also, it's why I believe that diversity works because we're a small village and we're all different. We're all different. We, we disagree on a lot of points. We, we look very different. We come from very different places. We worship different gods, but we love each other. We, we fight, we argue and we work hard and we play hard and we love each other. We're family. It works. It's beautiful. And I mean, these people work harder than anybody. I really love the way that you relate to humanity. Like you get the important stuff and you put it through your music and you bring it to the people. But then right now the relatability factor within our species is bad. It is. It's really rough right now. Well, it is. If you're listening to the loud ones, I think that there's a lot more beautiful than ugly. There's still a lot of beauty and the beauty always shines brighter. But it's a tough time. It's a tough time. It is. And not all of it is a choice. You know, a lot of it is you want to create a great uncertainty. You want to create fear on mass and fear leads to ignorance is the great Yoda God in one. Um, create something that we can't understand that we don't know how to cure and we don't know when it's going to be cured and feed it to the world. That's it's going to send everybody upside down. So, you know, we're dealing with that trauma and you seem to really feel like, I think a lot of your fight comes from like you're an empath, right? Yeah. You are for sure. You are. Yeah. You feel deeply. I do. So it must be tough at the moment. I feel it. It's really, really, really tough. And I'm also a mom and I have a lot of dear friends with children. And, um, it's, it's a really tough time for people. People are having a hard time. Kids are having a hard time. That's why I wrote the kids are not. All right. Like the kids are not. All right. We're not. All right. And I'm, I'm thinking about them and, and what kind of a world it's breaking down and where does hope come from? Where do we find our hope? And, and that's something that we think about every single day. And so for my kids, I think they're, they're lucky because I'm their mom. Of course, but I think they're lucky because I have a really great sense of humor and I'm open, like super open, transparent, like, no, you're, but this can also be true at the same time. It can also be true that you just had the best day of your life at a time where things are completely upside down. It can also be true that you hate this, but that you're surrounded by so much love and you know, it can also be true that you, the potential in you to be great is amazing. And the potential of you to be awful. It's also amazing. And it's a choice. That's, you just summed this album up to me. It is 100% dealing in those really wonderful contradictions. And we need contradictions. Like it can't be one way or the other. We should be contradicting each other openly way more than we do. Yeah. Without the right to get up and leave the table. Correct. That's the moment it's broken. Yeah. When you, that whole thing, that ego thing, I think I'm figuring it out. Like, I think you're absolutely terrified of ego. Me? I am. I think that's why when I throw numbers at you, you're just like, shut up. Yeah. It's, it really comes through in this album. There's some really beautiful moments. You and Chris, uh, magic. Oh, I mean, Chris Stapleton. You'd have to be really bad to screw that up. What's that song? Either way. People say this, but he could sing me the phone book. I said that to my daughter the other day. She's like, what's a phone book? I'm like, Oh God, nevermind. I have no idea. I don't know what that is. A phone book. Okay. Do you know what a phone book is? Thank you. He's not far off. Give us an actual willing candidate who can ask that question. Honestly, I have no idea what that is. He could. I actually did that to Patrick Stump from Fall Out Boy the other day. It's the only time in my life I've ever done it. I said, some people say you can sing a recipe. Yeah. There you go. And he's saying, yeah, he did. He sang an apple pie recipe or something. And it was so funny because he goes, it's early in the morning. So I mean, you're not going to get me belting. And then sure enough, he was like, yeah, a little bit of cream. And he went for it because you know, you artists, you can't help it. Yep. If it's to be sung, it should be expressed. It should be sung. You know, the tour is coming up. The stadium tour. I know. I'm so excited. I forget how much fun I get to have. I just had our first tour meeting, like official meeting where we're seriously starting to plan and build things. And I walked away going, oh, I get to do all that. It's a playhouse. I get to do all that. And you get to invite friends along for the ride as well. And you want to talk about really righteous human beings who've got their priorities straight. Brandi Carlile is right up there. I mean, she's just one of my favorite people on the planet. Me too. I've loved her for a very, very, very long time. We wrote a song together like, oh, God, 16 years ago. Wow. I'm obsessed with her. And she's so welcome as well. Yeah. Like, I got to spend some time on her amazing compound. Have you been to a place outside of Seattle? No. Yeah, no, it's nuts. Like, she did it. Like, they just did it. Like, there are the twins living over there and over there and family and friends and everyone's like, you know, 10 acres away, but everyone's got plots of land and the whole thing is just like, ah, it's like, that's what she did. She figured it out. Like, you bring it home. Yeah. You leave home to make a home. Yeah. You just got to make sure that you do it in time. And I think that that's, again, something that I really appreciate about your journey is that you chose home at a really, at a time when there was probably every incentive to keep running and traveling and building and running and. No, everyone told me if you have children right now, your career's over. Who? I wish I could put a face to someone who would say that because I know that's true. Who the says that? Somebody who it behooves for you not to stop working. But I think interestingly enough for me, everyone has this idea of me that I'm just my singles, right? That I'm the snarling, man-eating, angry, like, she-man, right? And if you, it's obviously we're all much more complex than any of that, but when I had a child, I think it softened me to the world, the part that didn't understand me. And I think that's when my career began, really. I mean, I did a lot of stuff before that, but really, truly, I think it's when I started to really understand myself and understand the world and my place in it. It's funny, you know, because the voice is an instrument, it has to reflect the moment, it has to reflect the mood and the feelings and what's going on in life will come through. And so not everybody can, you have a voice that's going to resonate with your life at all times, that it's going to vibrate. And I think definitely, you talk about softness, I just felt purpose, like your voice changed a little bit and things just started to have a little different, a different urgency to them. Yeah. And you know, it also takes you out of that room because when you're in that room in the EMTV, no disrespect, it could be any room, it could be the Apple room, it doesn't really matter, the room where everybody is, your peers, it's all just a big cluster. It's just a jostle, right? It's just a jostle. And when you start having a family, you can leave that room. Yeah, yeah. And people go, oh man, you found something that's more important than this room? Yeah. What's your secret? I just don't care about you. You don't cuddle quite the same. Exactly. I've never loved being kicked in the face more. That's true. And man, my kid, that boy, he likes to make contact in the night. In the night. He'll just keep punching you and punching you and punching you. Our kid was, you know, when Homer goes on the ground and he goes, woo woo woo woo woo and he runs on his side, that's what our kid used to be like when he would sleep in our bed because you'd wake up and somehow he'd be, his head would be off the side of the bed, all our pillows would be surrounding him. Why are you laying like that? 100%. How did you even get there? My kids still sleep in my bed. Yeah. It's, they're rude. They're rude co-sleepers. It's, I slept in the dog bed a couple of nights ago. I was so over it. How big is your dog bed? It's like a little circle. It was enough at that moment. I was so over it. That's adorable. Somebody took a photo, you curled up in the dog bed. My kids are just splayed out, living their best life and I'm curled up in the dog bed in the corner. It's great. When they get to come out on the road with you, as they get older, obviously, and there's going to be more pressure for them too, whether we understand the infrastructure or the architecture of education or not, there's such a thing as take and leave. And so, you know, how does that sort of work for you? You know, can you still take them out? Can you still, can they come and experience things with you? Yeah, this one was a lot trickier than the last one. They've always just been with me, which has been incredible and impossible. It's the hardest thing I've ever done, but also the best. This time was weird. I had to plan. She's 11 and she's like 43. She has needs. And I had, I don't know why I thought I'd have till she was like 14. But I said to her, I said, listen, I do not honor my adult choices more than I honor your childhood. So we're going to have to just figure this out together because I need to know how you're feeling about things, what you want, what you don't want to miss, what you might miss, how you feel about missing me occasionally, because we've never been apart. And it was very teary. And I was like, also, I love what I do. I love it. It's not my job. It's my passion. And I worked my ass off for it. And I'm one of a handful of women that have ever gotten to do this. And I love it. And I'm good at it. So I'm not going to apologize for it. And it also affords you a very nice life. But it means you're going to have to miss me or miss them and or maybe part of both. And we could compromise. And she's like, I don't want you to quit, mama. And I'm I want to I really want to do theater. And I was like, I will never make you the month of July is yours for the rest of your life. Like you can and I will be home for your and I can call it like I'll be home for your performances and I'll be gone here. And the key word there was honor. Yeah. You say I honor it. Honor her. And then but then I'm exhausted and my eyes are puffy from crying and I'm tucking her in bed and she's like, but when are you going to Paris? It gets so much better as well, the older they get, you wait, it's just like, you know, my mom, you just belong to everybody else. But by the way, can I have tickets to go see Playboy Cardi at the Palladium? My son said to my best friend the other day, he's six, but when he was five, he goes, do you know that my mama is the best singer in the whole world? Keep him. And she goes, I do. And he goes, do you know Mama Stingsborough? And she was like, we're going to have to work on that math. But, yep, I do. You should keep him. Oh, he's delicious. I put a dress. I live in basically yoga pants just like everybody else. And I put on jeans for you today. Thank you. You're welcome. I put on pant heels. Oh, those are incredible. Look at those. These are incredible. Wow. They're great shoplifting pants if you're into that. And I came out in a dress for dinner and he goes, come on, Mama, what am I dreaming? You look so beautiful. I was like, I will buy you a El Camino. What do you want? I will get you a pony. What do you want? He's cracked it. He figured it out. I was also like, where are you from? Because you sound like you're from Long Island. What's your favorite record song on this album? Do you have one? Oh, darn it. What's my favorite record? Just now, today. What do you love? Oh, man, that's impossible. Well, OK, let me let me tell you about when I let me tell you what I think about when I get there. OK, so that's not a song people start albums with. Oh, it is, though. We've got to just dive right into it. That's what I mean. That's kind of how it is to sit with me, though. It's like, hi, do you want to hear about that one time? Yeah, I just it's mind blowing the way you start the album. It's like I saw Prince live once at the end of his life. Sadly, he started with Purple Rain. You only do those things. You only start with when I get there, when you get there, when you realize like, huh, I can do this and it's not going to reflect on the rest of the album in any other way except powerfully like it's an incredible song. Thanks. Yeah, that's kind of like it's time. It's time to sit down. Let's talk. Yeah, that's what that is. It's like an invitation to take the walls down and cut the bullshit and let's just talk about real stuff. So, OK, you're singing it. I wouldn't it came to me. I would never have when my dad was sick. That's what I'm looking for. And I said, this is my song. This has to be my song. This is my song. And I was able to play it for him before he died. And that's just a beautiful thing. And I played it for my best friend and her mom has passed and she's still not speaking to me. And I don't know if I'll ever be able to get through it live, but it is a beautiful song. It's just one of those simple. How do you write that? Right. I couldn't write that. I was not I'm not ready to write that song. So that it came to me at this time was not an accident. It's the closest thing. Yeah. That's a suitcase I haven't started unpacking yet. You know, it's coming. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Can't avoid that stuff. I'm in some pretty deep moments. It's really interesting. It is interesting. Yeah, I'm in this drywall between rooms where I'm being in my situation. It's as soon as I start talking about my life, everyone behind just disappeared. They've all gone to get coffee. No, the whole team was there. Now it's like it was bounced out. No, it's interesting. You talk about unpacking the suitcase because, you know, I'm definitely there. And it's and it's it's so funny, you know, like change is afoot. How do you how are you with change? I'm terrible at it. Being terrible. I give you a great line. My therapist gave me to help. Think about change. You have to try to accept it. So it's an absolute fact that you're always going to be one step behind. Yeah, I know. I yeah, I always tell other people like it's inevitable, you know. We don't believe it. I don't believe it when I say that. What is happening? I don't even like it when people move my spoons. That's how much I don't like change. Like, no, my spoons go there. Yeah. But let alone something important. Yeah, no. I am also terrible at surprises. Has anyone ever thrown you a surprise party? No, no. I would walk out. I'd be like, no, I didn't plan that. Even when I didn't plan this, so it wasn't planned correctly. And I'm out. You're the best. I was so excited. I don't even know. I think we're well over an hour and it has gone by like five minutes for me. I have no idea where the time's gone. I just knew that when we finally got to talk, it would be this. Like, I just knew it. I just knew it because I'm a fan and I know that that's who you are as a person. But I just knew it. I was like, man, yeah, it's going to be really fun. Yeah, I knew that when we talked on the phone all those years ago. Did you pick up that when I called you back and tried to style it out the second time that I called you by accident? No. So what happened was I was like, oh, yeah. So I just want to tell you once again, it's going to be so much fun. You're like, oh, no. Oh, cool, man. Nice. Nice one. Yeah, that's great. You call me back to tell me what you just told me 10 seconds ago. You're a real one. Now, what happened was I went to call up my friend who I work with. This is no word of a lie. And go get in. She's going to do it. She's going to do this show. I don't know what's going to be, but she's going to have a go at it. I was so excited. And then you answered. You're like, hi. And I was like, I go home and told my wife. And she was like, oh, man, babe, you did not pull that off. She thought, well, funny. I can't wait for everything to happen for you on this album and for people to love it and appreciate it. There's just no there's no slowing down for you to. I really respect you. Thank you very much. And I really love this record. And thanks for taking the time. I appreciate you. I'm really happy. I'm I'm like like numbed down a little bit because I care about it so much. So I'm like, yeah, right. We'll see how it goes. But don't you feel like now you already see it like you made it? It exists. It's beautiful. You can play it. I just love it. The music will do the work. It always does. I love Turbulence for that reason, because it's I played it for my friend's teenager and she was just reduced to tears. And I knew that it was speaking to her anxiety. That's what I got from it. And I just I I hope that that song helps a little because it's such a nice idea. It's, you know, as bumpy as it gets, it's just scary as it gets. It's just Turbulence. Yeah, I'm such a terrible flyer. No, but it's so funny because I immediately didn't take a literal meaning from it. I was like, I wish I'd had that three to three years ago when one of our kids was really going through in quarantine. I mean, I just felt like I couldn't get through. And thankfully, he's come out the other side and he's flying. No pun intended. But I mean, he that song is such a beautiful. Yeah. Description of what it is to feel helpless trying to help someone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You do help people. Thanks, friend. Can you take that? Yeah. You'll take that one. Yeah.