Select Your Weapon - Lethal Weapons [Retro Rifle / SMG] Match

This video is brought to you by Slate Black Industries. For grips and accessories, visit slateblackindustries.com Ohayougozaimasu. This year I'm going to a lethal weapon 2024. Do you like guns? Well, I hope so. Welcome to the wonderful world of LARPing and lethal weapons. And with all honesty, I have not gone to a match for 15 years, so this may be a time for my basic skill set to shine, or it very well could be a reckoning. That said, of course, being fans of classic weapons, I could not miss out on another lethal weapons year. What is lethal weapons? I will direct you to the Lethal Weapons Texas website and Clayco47. Lethal weapons is a match that will challenge you to bring one of your old dusty collectibles that's just been dying to go to the range. An old bolt action gun, an SKS, your dad's Daewoo, or maybe an A2 carry handle M16. In a nutshell, it is taking classic 80s and 90s guns. This is a wrong one to show. 80s and 90s firearms and shooting matches with them and enjoying and LARPing and having a great time. So, of course, first thing is, which one am I going to choose? And I got together with Josh and we started talking about which one of these I should choose. When it comes to being prepared for a shooting match, there's some things that are very important. These are carryovers to many things, you know, important things that you might be doing in your life in general. You have to really be on point if you're going out to compete and be effective. One of those things comes down to making sure that you're hydrated and making sure that you don't eat really crappy food the night before. Because if you do, you'll end up like this. Henry, what's going on? Are you dehydrated, bud? No, I'm good. What did you eat last night? Was it spicy? Yeah. Now we're out on a range and there's not a lot of area for Henry to relieve himself. Just give me a second. Ladies and gentlemen, mostly gentlemen, we have a table full of lethal weapons. Which incidentally, lethal weapons is the name of the competition that we're going to partake in. That you're going to partake in. We're going to partake in. Alright, so Henry has signed up to go compete at lethal weapon. Now, if you're not familiar, lethal weapon is sort of a carryover match that's connected to Kalash Bash. It's the same dudes who run that. Clay and Tony and the dudes at Dissident. And what's the idea, Henry? It's a throwback style match. It's a 90s, 80s, 90s gun match. Yeah, so obviously being a match, one part is skill. The other part, Josh, which I am so intimately familiar with. The vibes. The freaking vibes. So LARPing is not a suggestion, it is a must. Okay, so LARPing is required. Now, I know there's a bunch of different divisions at this match. What division did you ultimately choose to shoot? So, first of all, I have not shot a match since my early 20s. Which was like 15 years ago. But I am actually 25 this year, so it doesn't matter. So I have not shot a match for 15 years. Feeling a little limber. Let's go. So... Nice. You alright? I pulled this a little bit. Yeah? You old man yourself? I wanted to shoot PCCs and ask the former GM himself on... I don't know what I'm doing anymore because it's been too long. It's been 15 years since I've gone to a real match. So, that's where we're at. When you are getting ready to go out for a match, you want to make sure that you're eating clean, eating good, being hydrated the night before. Don't go out drinking with your buddies. You can save that for after the match. Don't go out and have a bunch of crappy fast food or spicy Korean barbecue, because then you'll end up like Henry. That's a nice little tip from me to you. So, I have no ability to help you on the vibe area, but we're going to work through a couple of drills here and determine the best way, or at least, let's say, an entry way that someone, maybe someone who's thinking about going to the event and trying to decide what gun they're going to shoot. Here's some of the stuff that you might be able to go through and some considerations you might have. So, you said you're going to shoot PCC. Yes. And then, as I understand it, the standard division for PCC is irons only? This year at Lethal Weapons, you will have two full-blown eight-stage competitions to choose from. The first one is the sub gun match. Let's talk a little bit about that. Now, this match will primarily consist of steel targets. However, you will encounter a lot of paper targets as well. Each of the stages will have their own unique theme to try to immerse you in the 80s, 90s, and what was really cool about this era of firearms. Now, this match will only have two divisions. Sub gun iron, sub gun open. Sub gun iron means no optic whatsoever on iron sights. So, if you look at USPSA rules, you're either shooting production, anything with an optics is then in the open category. So, it doesn't matter if you're just with one red dot. See how old Henry is and how long it's been since he shot? He doesn't know all divisions have dots now. There's two divisions in my mind. Sub gun open is literally any optic of any kind, so long as it does not change the overall silhouette of the firearm. That will allow you to shoot the open division of the sub gun match. The idea here is we don't want to change or manipulate the theme of the match too much by letting people shoot open. It's literally just allowing you to put an optic on a gun. So, one of the major considerations we're going to have here is, if you can do it with irons, because of your skill with irons, I think your skill with irons is disproportionately higher than other people who do most of their shooting with optics. So, the general competitor base here, if you look at your skill set overall in match settings, you will be disproportionately skilled with irons. So, basically, my weird-ass skill set because I was a poor in college puts me at an advantage in this particular division with irons. Yeah, I think you will have more experience shooting irons than the majority. Most people are probably more used to shooting optics, whereas you're not really. So, I would say straight away, I'm probably going to be thinking we want to put you towards the iron division. Okay, so, we'll still shoot this. I still want you to shoot this and get a flavor for it, but I think ultimately we're going to lead towards irons. So, look, what we've got set up here is, again, super, super basic. I don't want anyone to take this away and be like, this is the only thing that matters and this is so important, but it's going to draw some baseline fundamental pieces, okay? So, we've got an option of five particular firearms. The MP5 KPDW, the Colt 635, the P90, the M1 Carbine, and, of course, the H&K UMP. All five of these are iconic in the pop culture sphere and things that I could do very many larps with. But, Josh being Josh, places efficiency over everything else and wanted to make sure that I didn't eat shit coming out for the first time in 15 years. So, he did a little bit of an evaluation to figure out which one I should choose. And so, we started with the MP5 K. The MP5 K itself is a storied little thing. We've made many videos on the MP5 and one particular one on the MP5 K. Specifically, the MP5 K is known sort of as, you know, the PDW specific, is a more covert action type. Think Secret Service, think CIA, think downed pilot, any of those classic 90s PDW scenarios. So, this is a system that I am intimately familiar with. Let's see how I did. Yeah, good, get in your good stance, get everything good. Here we go, stand by. Okay. So, your split was a .16. Both of your rounds are just below center on the target and no real vertical dispersion, okay? So, you're really just seeing a little bit of horizontal movement but the gun vertically tracked back to the exact same place, which is good. And frankly, not really, I wouldn't expect any less from the MP5. Academically, I love the P90. I think there's a lot of late Cold War theories and employment and design characteristics that were put into this thing. If the cutoff date was 1990, this is as late towards the cutoff date as you can get it and still be in that competition setting. Now, as far as LARP goes, everybody knows about Stargate. However, there's also other things that I grew up with like Counter-Strike, Rainbow Six. The P90 has actually been in a fair amount of video games, more so than movies. That said, let's see how I did on the controlled pairs and if I could work the trigger well. So, with the P90, here we go. Are you ready? Here we go. Okay. Also, rounds right next to each other, really, really tight. Split was a .26. So, almost a tenth of a second worse than the MP5. So, it's double the time than the MP5. Not quite double, but it's about a tenth more. The MP5 is .16. Okay. So, next up, we have the Colt SMG. So, this is an H&R or PSA copy of the Colt 9mm. It is a direct blowback 9mm. Now, shooting with iron sights, you get all the perks of an M16's ergonomics with the last-round bolt-open, paddle mag release. However, you get a much harsher direct blowback into your system. That said, the system runs a lot faster and as far as how LARPs go, it would be one of those federal agent LARPs. So, think maybe not exactly ATF, some ATF, but really you're thinking DEA in the Miami scene. You're thinking about this isn't the DOE, but the DOE had their own version of this. And so, think federal agent when you're thinking about this. So, blazer, big yellow letters on the back, no knock warrants. Let's see how it does. Let's go with the Colt. Oh, this bad boy is going to... This is not the most rocker of all of them, but let's just say direct blowback is great. OK, right on, hyper-focus on that dot, stand by. OK, again, rounds right through the same little rat hole there. What did it look like? It lost it, so I'm going to have you do it one more time. OK. Sorry about that. All good. That's an interesting indication. OK, here we go, stand by. OK, again, right through the same little rat hole. Split was 0.16, so exact same as the MP5K. OK. And rounds, about the same dispersion as the MP5K. I will say that second shot, so that felt more violent than the MP5K. So, the second shot was fairly instinctive, I almost feel like. So, you're running a hammer, right? You're assuming that you're going to be driving it back with your eyes and with your body and your mechanics. Correct, yes. But what you're saying is that you weren't sure that it was going to be back. Correct. But it was. Yeah. OK. So, next up would be the M1 Carbine. Yes, before you say it, I know, I know, it's a little bit dated from 1990. Yes, it was around in 1990, maybe in the 1980s you still saw them in select police departments, but really not that many. The M1 Carbine has a special place in my heart. I love this thing, that's why I wanted to see if this was even a viable option. Larps-wise, I guess post-war Japanese, you could have that, or you could be 442nd, which I do, in fact, have a World War II uniform with a 442nd patch. So, this would have been pretty cool, but let's see how it did. The M1, here we go. Standby. OK, was that actually the fastest you could press the trigger? Let me try that one more time. OK, rounds, one slightly above the other, both are there. That was a .31. Here we go. Standby. Yeah, that's as fast as I can go with this thing. OK, got it. All right. So, of course, the best performer at the very end, right? The best performer. The UMP-45 has had a reputation of being a jumpy fella, especially when you take the optic off. Now, in the past, Josh and I have been able to shoot the UMP-45 fairly well. Doing doubles at 25, that's not an issue with this thing. However, that was with the Red Dot. And the Red Dot provides two distinct things. Obviously, it's a good aiming solution. The other thing is, it gives it a little bit of weight, which this thing sorely needs if you are trying to really zip those targets quickly. Otherwise, it becomes a little sloshy, if you know what I'm talking about. That being said, as far as 90s aesthetics, the UMP is a pretty aesthetic firearm. And there's likely not going to be many people shooting the UMP at the match. But how well can I shoot an iron-sighted UMP? That is the big question. As far as LARP goes, you're talking about Alejandro from Sicario. You're talking about any video games from the 90s. So you're talking about Counter-Strike, you're talking about Rainbow Six. This was supposed to be the next generation of submachine gun employment. Obviously, it wasn't. But still, it holds a special place in my heart. Oh, also, if I wanted to shoot up a Porsche, I suppose I could be bad boys too. Although, I don't entirely fit the demographics. Anyways, how do we do with this? Oh, no. Goodbye, optic. Yeah, this is going to be... This, ladies and gentlemen, you don't realize how much this does to the UMP. It's not just the optic. It's also the weight that the UMP actually needs. But we'll see. We'll see. All right. Here we go. No, I should use a sight that I'm going to use in competition, right? Yeah. All right. Just focusing on that center dot. Stand by. Okay. That was a .25. That didn't feel like the fastest you could pull the trigger. But the dispersion was the biggest we saw. And that wasn't even the fastest you could hammer the trigger. You want me to try it again? I want you to hammer the trigger. Okay. But focus on that center dot. Stand by. S***. Okay. .29. So, worse. Yes. And you... I believe what you did is you drove your second shot down because you're over... You're trying to drive the gun back. You're not trusting that your body is going to bring it back in that time. Yeah. Okay. So, what does that tell you straight away, Henry, from a shootability perspective? Which ones immediately are ruled out? Immediately? Come on. Come on back over here. Which ones are immediately ruled out, Henry? The two that Josh is holding on to, those are veteran mode on the video game. This is recruit mode. And this is also recruit mode. Now, this is really important to draw this delineation and this distinction. Does any of this mean that with multiple reps and some additional practice, Henry couldn't be shooting and returning this effectively? No. Of course not. What we're doing here is we're putting some guns down on the table about, what, a couple weeks ahead of the match and saying, which one are we going to go with? And the one that you're shooting the best with right now is probably going to be the one that we're going to go with. So... Surprise. The one that... How many MP5 reviews have I done on this channel? It's almost as if time behind the gun matters. All right. So I'm going to wipe these two off of it straight away. Oh, are you serious? Oh, yeah, dude. Yeah, these are done. There's no way that I'm letting you take either of those. What about the P90? How are you feeling about the P90? The P90 actually, okay, so if you're on target, the P90 is actually fairly fast. Yeah. I mean, it's a very small round, so it's not a... High cap magazine, 50 round mags as well. But the optic, what about the optic? I mean, it's a VCOG. Sorry, it's a mini ACOG. I know, but are you going to shoot optic? All right. We'll keep it in. We're going to keep it in for now. All right. So that was the first drill. Again, really basic. What we're doing here is not end all, be all, don't take this away and go, well, this is all I got to do. No, we're very, very basic assessment. Now we're moving on to the next one. Okay. All right. All right. All right. Let's get the cameras repositioned and I'll explain the drill. So unfortunately, Josh had to eliminate two of my options based on the loadout. Now, again, I think the UMP could do a lot better, but I may actually need a red dot on that thing to perform without a lot of training. So we're ending up with three different firearms and Josh is going to essentially have me present and drop a control pair at a 25 meter steel C zone target. So now we're going to build it out a little bit. Okay. We're going to work on mount and site acquisition, as well as tracking the sites, quote unquote, meaning how well you are able to visualize the target and perceive your sites in relation to the target. Okay. Now, normally we would do this with some movement, some other stuff involved in it, but I'm trying to do a lot with a little here. Okay. Let's do it. All right. We're trying to see how fast you're able to acquire the different sighting systems and how good the mounting positions are and how consistent you are with the mounting positions. Right. So this one, we're actually going to run like a couple of different ones and we'll do some averages of your total time. Because there's a little bit more going on here. So we'll start with the MP5 and then the P90 and then the Colt 635 and we'll see how we do. Stand by. Point one, one point one four. First shot was in a point eight eight. Split was point two six. Stand by. You missed. Oh, I did? Yeah. Sorry. It was a one point oh nine, which was really sexy until you missed. Stand by. Okay. That was a one oh three. That's I think about as fast as someone's probably going to be able to do this drill. A point eight five first shot and a point one eight split. So I like that. This at about one second. That's I think that's really good. Okay. So your mounts were all consistent and tracking back. It probably perceiving that the sites are in the right place. So are you trying to look at sites or are you staring at the target? Okay. Which which are you doing? Do you know what you're doing? I was looking at a target. Yeah, I think that that's right. But make sure that by that before you hammer that second shot, that your sights have come back. Okay. Before you hammer that second shot. Okay. Try one more with that with that in mind, because now I have this knowledge. I want the one point oh three is about as fast as I think you're going to do this. But if you can do it even faster. Great. I don't know if I could do it faster, but maybe I could kind of more consistent. Yeah. Stand by. Nice. That was sick. That's a point eight nine with a point seven first shot and a point one nine split. Okay. That's pretty banging, dude. So that's pretty good. All right. So I mean, like towards the towards the end, I felt a lot better with. I mean, me, I'm just thinking about this like off hammer. I don't think I do it any faster than that. Like I wouldn't look at that and be like, oh, yeah, I can definitely smoke that time. A point eight nine total time. Mount from low ready mount and double tap at twenty five with irons. It's pretty good. Okay. All right. Now this is not irons, though. That's right. Okay. So in this in theory here, you should be even better with this one, right? In theory, you got an optic. You better be better. All right. Stand by. One point oh two point eight one and point two one. Stand by. Missed on the second shot. It would have been a point seven nine, which would have been really cool. But you missed. Stand by. Nice. Point eight seven. What are you seeing immediately here? I'm getting used to the recoil impulse. So the P90s recoil impulse. It's not that it has low recoil. It actually retracts right back. But you need to be able to position yourself to do that. The other thing is the way the mini ACOG works. Yeah. You kind of have to suck your eyeball in and get used to it. Now, how much of this Henry are you are you basing because you're beating your times on the MP5. Okay. Okay. How much of that is based off of you being able to just see where the reticle is? It's an optic. Yes. I know what Josh is getting at. This is damn optic. Okay. I get that. Thank you, Josh. Optics are faster. Yes. Stand by. Nice. Point nine. It was a point six nine first shot and a point two split. Okay. So let's put this down. So this straightaway tells me that in spite of the fact that you can you could shoot the see, this goes back to you were being a liar about how fast you could pull the P90 trigger on this target because you're shooting a split faster at 25 than you are shooting at 12. And all I wanted you to do was focus on your split. So you were lying on the first time. I'm glad we didn't disqualify the P90. Now let's go on to the Colt. Okay. Okay. Again, get that sight picture, see what you're going to see, and then go ahead and drop down and come come back on the buzzer. Okay. Drop that gun just a touch. There we go. All right. Stand by. Second shot was low. That was a one oh two. Stand by. Shit. That was a point eight one, which was like really fast. Stand by. Hey, both over the top. So these are headshots. Maybe. Okay. Maybe I shouldn't aim over the bore. Yeah, go ahead. And oh, you're trying to look over the sights. Yeah, that's what I was trying to do. Because that's what I done with a carbine. I aim it over a bore. I put the U on the bottom, but that's not very precise. Okay. So you're not perceiving. Yeah, you're just throwing the sights up below the target. Okay. So that I shouldn't do that. I would say that it just use the actual sight at that distance. You're not going to be able to. Well, what we've just proved is you're not going to be able to reliably do that. Okay. So I actually have to look through the ghost ring. I would say that that's probably going to be accurate based on what we just saw. All right. All right. Stand by. Stand by. So this right now is enough to tell me that whatever's going on, you're not perceiving this the same way you can perceive these other two guns. So I would eliminate this. This isn't it. We could spend some time and sit here and try to work on what's going wrong or what you're not seeing or perceiving correctly or whatever else. But that's not what we're trying to do here. You know what I mean? What we're trying to do is get you selected a gun that you're already very comfortable with and that's working well with you. So we're down to two options. We've got a P90 with an optic and we've got the MP5. You shot the P90 like crap up close from speed perspective for some reason. Because you were submarining it and you're sandbagging with it. And on the MP5, honestly, you're able to shoot it very well at the distance target. Especially after you started to get a feel for what we were trying to do. I mean, you were hitting sub-seconds. Even I think you had some down in the 0.9 area. And you are getting the hits. I'll tell you, the P90, the recoil sensation between these two could not be any more different. For both of them having relatively low recoil, right? It is a very different relatively low recoil sensation. There's a lot of movement to the MP5. Don't get me wrong. It's low recoil, but there's a lot of movement. It's a very snappy movement for this, but it stays really close on target. So look, there's one sort of defining element then. Which, frankly, we would need to probably spend a good bit more time. We need to open up the course here. We need to see your movement with the guns and the balance with the guns. And how you're able to move in and out of positions with the guns. Because one of the things you're going to see at this match is tons of moving, leaning, having to take awkward positions. Breaking the gun down and sprinting with the gun. Potentially shooting on the move in some capacity. All of that is going to be stuff that you have to deal with. So we do need to work through some of that. That's a factor as well. I would be inclined to believe that when it comes to some of those things, you'll be better with this. Because of comfort and familiarity. But, I don't know, that's something you're doing really well with that gun as well just seeing how you've been shooting. So, I have helped you rule out down to the final two. And now I think it's time for you to take this away, Henry. And give the people what they really came here for, which is the drip check. The drip check! Ah, yes! And the why. Now the final piece. MP5K or P90? But turns out the choice is already made for me here. The P90 is classified as a rifle cartridge for Lethal Weapons Texas. Now, annoying as that is to me, I get it. They have to deal with the consequences of people trying to game the cartridges or whatever. But the P90 is sadly not a PCC and therefore eliminated by virtue of that. But, the MP5K PDW is still an excellent choice with iron sights. So, I am going to go shoot Lethal Weapons with the SP5K or MP5K PDW in semi-auto form. That being said, Josh did an excellent job when we were out on the range and calling me out. Because I was like heeing and hoeing and saying, oh, everybody's going to have an MP5. I do think this is going to be the year of MP5 at the match. But, the MP5K PDW I think is going to be very popular because of how freaking good these things are. Not just the Ks but also the full size. That being said, the big thing that I would like to pose to you guys if you've made it this far. What kind of LARP should I go as? What kind of LARP works with the MP5K PDW? Now, I will leave you with that question. So, please feel free to write it in the comment section down below. And, until next time, thanks to our sponsor, Slate Black Industries in Midway, USA. And until then, we'll see you on the range. Or if you're going to Lethal Weapons, I will see you in the squad. Take care guys. Actually, tell you what. We'll put together a livestream kit review. What are you wearing to Lethal Weapons this year? Or if you've got aspirations of going to a future Lethal Weapons event, what is your peak 80s or 90s competition rig setup? Tag us at 9HoleReviews on Instagram or send us an email, 9HoleReviews at gmail.com. If you're going to put a hashtag, put a hashtag, LWKitRev. If you do that and tag us, shoot us a note. I'd like to pick some of the best kits out there and do a livestream next week. Rate it live with Josh and ask you guys what you think. Anyways, we'll see you guys out there. 10-9-6, this is 10-4-1-6, roger, over. 10-9-1, 1-pack, green, green, over. This is 10-4-1-6, roger, over. 10-6, 15-9-2, 1-victor, 2-fax, recon 1, over.