The Root Cause of Fatigue with Morley Robbins: Episode 2 The Myths Around Vitamins C and A

welcome back to the Dr Doug show your resource for bone health hormone optimization and Women's Health through midlife and Beyond today I'm really excited to have Morley Robbins back on the show uh we did a uh an interview uh this be a couple weeks ago um they're going to be probably a few months between when they're posted but a couple weeks ago where we talked a lot about copper and iron and iron toxicity and and it got some really interesting feedback so I wanted to bring him back on because there are so many topics that he brings up in his book and if you haven't read his book uh called cure your fatigue it's a really good look at what's called the root cause protocol copper Copper's role in this whole situation and he brings up some really controversial points but backs everything up with a a tremendous amount of evidence and so uh today we get into Vitamin C sort of the challenges around the idea that ascorbic acid is not vitamin C and it might not act like vitamin C in the body we talk a little bit more about copper about the the thought behind copper toxicity and some of the feedback that I got uh from this first interview and then we talk about vitamin A the difference between beta carotene retinol retinoic acid all of the different versions of vitamin A uh and the impact that vitamin A can have on the body but how we might be fooled by the thought of uh getting vitamin A through beta cartine and how much beta kerotin it would really take so stick around for this interview uh I kept it short we're about 40 minutes long so I'm excited about that uh these are topics that could go on for hours so we did it in a pretty succinct way uh I hope you enjoy this all right well welcome back Morley um super happy to have you back on uh what we'll call uh number two of hopefully is a three-part series talking about all of these really fun Concepts that you talk about in your book uh for those that haven't listened to the first episode of this uh we really got into iron toxicity and we talked a lot about copper we're going to touch back a little bit on copper today I want to get into some of the other topics that have come up a lot with my own team also in questions on um on YouTube and social media Etc so we're going to talk mostly today we're going to talk about vitamin C some some myths some realities same thing about vitamin A and we're going to touch back again on copper just a little bit so morle really happy to have you back on to help us Wade through some of this information yeah great to be here delighted and there's a lot of uh information out there as we'll work our way through yeah yeah I I appreciate that so I guess actually let's start backwards let's hit copper again and and in our last episode we talked a lot about copper and how it works with iron and I would really encourage people to listen to that we tried to put it together in a succinct way um but some of the feedback I've gotten from my team is uh if we're adding more copper you know they're very much worried about zinc uh they're worried about copper toxicity and we're trained as medical providers to watch out for copper toxicity and I think this comes from you there are some genetic diseases and inborn eras of metabolism where copper toxicity is real um and so it is something that people do have to worry about but those are very unique situations and not what we in my opinion should be seeing if we're adding adequate amounts of copper back into the diet either through food or supplementation so let's hit the first part of that which is we're taught even in the functional medicine space copper and zinc will uh bind to each other and knock each other out of circulation if you consume them together or if you consume one without the other can you give us a little bit of background on what you've learned with all the providers that are providing copper and potentially not necessarily zinc uh and how you see that working out well ideally we want to we want to have a balanced diet ancestral diet we're going to get a lot of uh minerals throughout that that uh profile what's undeniable is the loss of copper in our diet and we are being drowned in zinc I mean it's it's zinc is everywhere in the supplements and the food what had be and tremendous amount of confusion about this but the confusion didn't start until the 1960s the work of Carl feifer and you got to go back to the source you got to go find what was the article that he wrote that started this process of of uh potential copper toxicity he was writing about suula Plasma in the late 60s uh further uh written about in his book mental and Elemental nutrients it's about that th you'd love it but um he talked about when culo plasma gets breached the copper becomes Unbound from its transport supp protein it's very specific about the language well you know the game of telephone you start to tell the story and suddenly the the the ending by the time you get around the circle is very different and so Unbound from culo plasma became Unbound copper became toxic copper became copper toxicity and there's a tremendous amount of uh verb out there most of it's on the internet not not so much in the literature and you know they're they're trying to blame uh heart disease on copper toxicity they're trying to blame cancer on copper toxicity I mean there's no end of of the efforts that don't go to but the the idea that copper and zinc were supposed to be IM balance was never discussed by the great researchers back in the 1920s 30 30s 40s 50s this didn't surface until the 1960s with Carl feifer you know um Oto warper he wasn't worried about zinc um Conrad elvan uh even Hans Krebs no one talked about zinc it wasn't even in the literature back then and and now oh every everyone worries about the zinc certio like we can't talk about super Oxide dismutates without saying oh the the copper the zinc copper s so it's always got to get the zinc in first and again it's part of the the brainwashing in my humble opinion and um people don't know what zinc does to COA it's it's very um George Brewer at University of Michigan do you know him he's an MD who studied I know uh Wilson's disease which you were alluding to oh the the toxicity of copper because of the gene defect atp7b was actually it's a retinol problem it's not a CO I mean does copper build up of course it does but where's the defect it's in retinol not in Copper and and so George bur studied this for 15 years at Michigan he had funding for 15 years that's a long time and he was studying how zinc blocked copper uptake so we don't get Wilson's disease it's like come on now and um and it's very effective at preventing copper uptake zinc will in fact guarantee that copper does not get into ctr1 that it cannot be absorbed in the anas site there's another thing that zinc does um you've probably have heard of ameloid plaque and the amalo precursor protein right the function of the AP peptide is Ferro oxidase it it's a copper dependent enzyme that runs AP principally in the brain well what knocks out the Ferro oxid edine function zinc interesting Ashley Bush down at University of Minnesota or University of Melbourne figured that out back in 2010 and his colleague Dr D Duce and then we have the third uh problem is uh complex for of the mitochondria it's where the action is oxygen becomes water to release the ADP well guess what zinc does zinc inhibits complex 4 so I have again you're talking to a guy who is protecting the bi availability of copper wherever possible and when I read in the literature just those three events I be to question I question is this in our best interest and the challenge we've got is that practitioners know what they know but they don't know what they don't know sure and and they don't they don't ask enough questions for my liking and I I think what I began to do Doug is began to question the narrative long ago and when I got to 26 errors in the narrative then I flipped the narrative and said the whole thing is wrong what's right yeah and people haven't taken the time to do that now does that mean that I'm absolutely certain and and I have no doubt about my position no but I I've seen so much benefit benefit by challenging the official Narrative of nutrition and medicine that if I I don't have confidence that we need more zinc I don't have confidence that we need more ascorbic acid which I know we're going to talk about yeah and I don't have confidence in vitamin D because I know those three to be a Triad to destroy the B availability of copper and I'm here to protect copper that's why that's my baby it's your mission and I love it yeah I love it so so here's where I I settled with my team is um you know because we're adding copper for people where we see it needs to be added and we're looking at iron like we talked about last time and um and my team threw up red flags and said we are going to deplete everybody's zinc and I said okay well the good news is is that we measure zinc so we measure red blood cell zinc um we can get a sense of what's happening with ink levels in the body I can tell you so far I don't see it um but we're going to do it cautiously at their at their and it's reasonable concern that's what they're trained in and that's fine so we we are you know we're collecting these data I have not seen a depletion in zinc and we're not repleting zinc in most people what I saw especially over the last three years everybody started taking more and more zinc big doses of zinc during the pandemic um and so I maybe we're just seeing a a flood of uh red blood cell zinc I don't know um but we'll see you know we'll see what happens with that but I wanted to ask you this too about about copper and copper toxicity is that um I have people that are concerned because of course they they get our recommendations they go online and I have wonderful patients that do a a tremendous amount of research so I it's fantastic I love that but when so much of the information is leading in the same direction which is in contradiction to what we're saying it can make some people uncomfortable so um I I have not seen anybody that has any signs of copper toxicity and we're using doses similar I we're using smaller doses than what you uh and the the people in your circle are using we we will be anywhere from kind of one up towards to to six or seven as a maximum dose of milligrams um I'm not seeing any but can you give us a sense of the providers that you're talking to what kind of dosing they're using um even talk you know talk about the supplement that you help to create you what kind of dosing is that and are you seeing any kinds of signs of of copper toxicity and people that are using it four four to six milligrams is where people seem to be Buy The Sweet Spot so that's the three recuperate um again when you go back into the literature uh the average American uh intank of copper back in the 30s was 4 to 6 milligrams in the 60s it dropped 2 to 5 milligrams and then now we're supposed to believe again what's the three-letter word in believe and so we're supposed to believe that we need 9/10 of 1 mg it's absolute insane people lost sight of the historical uh reference point about copper intake and the and the real issue this is my this is my uh perspective done is that copper is on this planet for many reasons not the least of which is to keep iron mobilized what what happened in 1972 Jacobs at all uh they're from Wales of whales they published a very important article in British medical journal saying oh we got to focus on the feri and protein let's store iron and up until that point up until 1972 everyone knew that iron needed to be in circulation yeah and what's really good at making iron circulation copper copper and what has happened since 1941 when they started adding iron filings to our food system that's an established fact increased 50% 1969 established fact nine different forms of iron in our food system established fact all nine caused cancer established fact is people have become iron toxic but no one talks about that oh everyone's anemic and so then you drop in Copper into the system guess what happens to the iron it gets mobilized what are two known symptoms of iron overload nausea hyperactive mind and guess what they did they just moved the spotlight from IR over to copper and said yeah see Copper's causing the problem Copper's causing that thing Copper's causing that hyper racing mind and it's like come on let's let's step back and think about this in a more historical context and people need to take the Long View about what the food was like when uh West a price was studying things around the world right the the mineral composition of the soil it's not it it's published you can go into the into the anals of agricultural study to see what the mineral composition was in the 1920s 30s and 40s and now look at it today you make sure you're talking to uh don Huber when you had that conversation at Purdue University and find out the decimation of minerals because of glyphosate and it's a very different perspective of putting those two mineral profiles side by side it's Farmers should not even be able to recognize what's going on in their farming we're living in a different world yeah for sure well that's that's a great transition point so then let's let's work let's work our way into ascorbic acid so you mentioned ascorbic acid will have a negative impact on um on copper on iron um and so for those that aren't familiar you know we when we look at Vitamin C particularly in supplementation it almost always the suppl will say vitamin C as ascorbic acid but there are a few products not many but there are a few products out there that will say vitamin C as a whole food source of vitamin C and then there's a couple different things that it could be what's the difference between those two and and how do they function differently how much sun you um so the way I describe it is um think of Whole Food vitamin C as your car that has an engine a steering wheel four wheels and a cover that's pretty much a car well that's the whole food vitamin C as it was described by Royal Lee at stainer process uh it's the vitamin C that you've heard of Albert sorgi with uh who allegedly got the Nobel Prize for quote discovering the scorc acid that's pure myth he got his his uh Nobel for the the bioenergetics of the cell and he and guess what he was studying he was studying Hungarian peppers which are a very rich source of Whole Food vitamin C he knew that he was really studying hyaluronic acid hyaluronic acid is in charge of the wound repair system guess what hyaluronic acid has inside it copper dinging ding this what hyaluronic sounds like hexuronic hexuronic acid is another way of saying ascorbic acid so there's a lot of confusion now the the letter that you may not know about or that your your team may not know about uh sun gorgi gets his Nobel in December of 1937 on July July 4th 1936 18 months before he gets the nod he writes a letter to the editor at nature Journal that's a big that's a big publication mhm it's a it's a headyy thing I've I've read the article many many times just a one page but in the article he very clearly states and I quote ascorbic acid does not cure scurvy he puts that in writing in the letter and so I don't know does he know what he's talking about and what he really talked about in the letter is that it was the permeability Factor vitamin P he called it that was in in fact principle for call for curing scurvy well we know that today as routin we know that today as quatin so it's again we're getting into areas of uh biochemistry and nutrition that most people don't know about and I didn't I didn't know any of this stuff until I started scratching the surface and so the the vexing um questions that people raise is yeah but but ascorbic acid cures cancer ascorbic acid prevented me from getting Co right right right and and what people don't realize is that as it relates to cancer what does highd do ascorbic acid do it creates a hydrogen peroxide storm and the goal is to kill the cancer cells and a lot of hydrogen peroxide will do that but but I take a slightly different stance and that and I I don't pretend to to be everyone's darling uh because I'm I'm trying to understand why these things work or what what they're doing and so cancer is a metabolic State and so think of cancer as adolescence taking drugs right and and there are there's a certain subset of the Adolescent community that does drugs what we're supposed to believe if we're on colist is we need to shoot those adolescence and kill them get rid of them is that what Society does no it rehabilitates them and I take the stance that what's missing in cancer metabolism is the ability to metabolize oxygen because Oxygen's present we have the warbird effect and what's what's really Mia by available coer what's the what's the cancer cell ravenous for iron and sugar it's going back to an earlier life form the molic state of cancer is an earlier life form and so oncologists are trained to kill cancer cells one of my clients years ago was a very high-profile oncologist with a lab at NIH and I did work for him and then over time I realized I couldn't work for him anymore and he challenged me on it he said why why won't you work for me and I said because you're killing people and he said morle hold that thought I'll call you in 24 hours so I thought sure can't wait to find get this call so he called me back in 24 hours and this is what he said and I quote I was expecting him to saying wory you're a son of a bit well you don't know what you're talking about well whatever this is what he said morally I will miss you and that was an admission of guilt as far as I'm concerned so there's a lot of confusion around ascorbic acid and what is important for people to understand is that the founders or the people who quote unquote discovered suo plasma be before Mother Nature uh were Holberg and Laurel they wrote a very important article in 194 48 about it and in that article they were very specific about how ascorbic acid blows up the culo plasman protein to create Unbound copper and what does it get bound to albumin there is no Unbound copper in the human body it doesn't even exist it's always it's always bound to something it's either going to be aluline histadine or trans coprine of transport protein it's just like transfering and inside the cell turn to the research of spet lenko who studied in Hopkins and what do we discover that it's 02101 is the amount of Unbound copper and so this idea that copper is toxic it's just lunacy on steroids and theoric acid U narrative is just that and it's it's been twisted to such a state that um the idea that well let me that back up so you're familiar with the triop of diabetes retinopathy neuropathy and nephropathy right right those three tissues can't process the sugar do you know why they can't process the sugar it's because they they're insulin independent they don't rely on insulin it's completely different completely different pathway that's used and it involves a transition between vitamin C and glucose and there's a critical enzyme that needs to be regulating that exchange and the the enzyme is called ascorbate oxidase soon as you hear the word oxidase you know Oxygen's involved you know that copper is going to be nearby and in fact what happens is as the sugars build up in the tissue the glucose becomes sorbitol Sorbitol is blowing up the cerulo plasma chelating the copper the scorbite oxidase cannot work and guess what guess what fructose and and glucose do to the tissue oxidize it burn it up and that's what happens with the triop of diabetes and it's all about a mineral breakdown and people would say oh little ascorbic acid must be just as good as ascorbate oxidase no ascorbate is ascorbic acid is the anti it's a it's actually a prooxidant or no it's an antioxidant shell that has no enzymatic function in the body from that standpoint got it so nothing good some bad and yet we take it in big doses when we don't feel well which is probably not helping us I don't think it does I yeah again I I think the um and in that case of and I used to do that Doug years ago before I did any of this work I used to do that you know whatever the little packets of vitamin C that you used yeah yeah yeah allergy C or whatever it was I mean I did that and they get us and I used to I used to take Zin losses For Heaven's Sake for years I would take that and it's just for whatever reason I've been invited into this inquiry to say is there another perspective are we missing other points of view and I I think what's important is for people to keep as you noted at the beginning of the conversation we got to keep an open mind we've got to ask more questions about what are we doing here and I think it's important for practitioners to to go beyond their training and say is there more than I was taught is there other secondary and tertiary impacts that I'm not aware of yeah I think it's um it's tough to get around the ascorbic acid because it's in so many things absolutely and a lot of times when people come into our office and we're you know we're doing a a run through of what they're currently taking and people are usually because I I I love my population of patients they are usually taking you know 30 different supplements um which is fun because we actually end up pairing that down like and say you know you need to take less um but one of the things that's always on there is you know a th000 or 2,000 or 5,000 milligrams of of a sorbic acid um and so my i' I've even before I started listening and read your book and listening to your the podcast that you've been on in the past um I always felt like vitamin C was it's easy to get through food if you eat a a diet that has fruits and vegetables in it it is still in our food supply so it's not one that needs to be uh supplemented probably at all honestly hey sorry to interrupt this interview with Morley but I wanted to let you know that if you haven't already joined our master class either on osteoporosis or on hormone optimization and replacement for women consider these free resources if you're interested in learning how we put together a bone health program how we put together hormone optimization How We Do hormone replacement both of these master classes again are free take a look at the description below for the links to that and if you're listen listen to this on a podcast go to Dr douglas.com you'll find the links on that website let's get access to the Ferro oxidase enzyme asay the colometric aay mhm it costs a whopping $4 see and that would then tell us the distinction between cerulo plasma which will show up on a blood test but we're going to get the height of it or we're not going to get its IQ you don't get its IQ until you measure the Ferro oxidase acid and then we will know what is all this ascorbic acid doing to affect the master antiox and protein and its intelligence in our body until we have access to that assay we're never going to resolve we're never going to resolve yeah um all right well so then the last thing I want to talk about today cuz I'm I am we're going to keep this under an hour we're going to do it morle U the last thing I want to talk about is vitamin A so so vitamin A I I had already gone down this Rabbit Hole a little bit before I I read your book and when most people think of vitamin A they think beta carotene they think carrots they think orange orange vegetables right um and then I remember um you know because I have read a lot of the literature around uh carnivore diets and eating liver um and there is of course fear there's a lot of fear around vitamin A toxicity so you have to sort of separate some of the big picture things here which is plant-based vitamin A versus animal-based vitamin A U you know the beta keres of which there are several and then different forms of retinol uh which can be very confusing for people um but let's just dig into a little bit of vitamin A and this is going to back into Vitamin D a little bit sure which is fine um so let's just talk a little bit about the difference between the function of say beta carotene versus retinol and why retinol itself is so important hands down I think one of its most important functions is it activates the copper pumps atp7a and atp7b and for the listeners 7B is making suul plasma very important A protein that has many enzyme functions 7A is all the rest of the copper enzymes and if people so again if you train people to be fearful of copper why would I need to know about the copper enzymes well the copper enzymes are the are what make our energy the copper enzymes are what clear our exhaust copper enzymes are what color our body both inside and out you know the the the placenta and the spleen are supposed to be very deep purple very vibrant color and if they don't have access to tyrosinase melanin can't do its job to color the body um yeah nerve nerve transmission doesn't work without so the the loading of copper to enable the vast activity of those enzymes doesn't happen unless there's retinol on the diet I didn't know that it's a and and I've seen that in one article Barbara and cousins 1987 and it's like sometimes I wonder how do they let that one article go through so it's just it's AB amazing but but the thing is we have a a c book from um The Fanny Farmer cookbook it goes back a couple hundred years goes back to Boston and and just to to see what they were eating back in the early 1800s and it was heavy cream and you know you can imagine the eggs and those recipes were from yard of course right uh butter right you know grass-fed of course and organ meats and so there were fav Foods in that in that cookbook I'd never even heard of but when you research them you find out they're they're based on organ meats and so um again we live in a different world we live in a more refined world the diet our our diet is completely refined from what our great great grandparents were eating and that doesn't mean it's better it's just more refi and so retinol um needs to be metabolized the word that you would use would be conjugate and so chemical conjugation is like when we're learning a language we have to learn how to conjugate verbs you know what what's the context for the word well retinol becomes what are called retinoids and we have um nuclear receptors that are playing very critical role uh inside uh the nucleus to make sure that things like vitamin D actually work V Active vitamin D will that work without rxr you don't and and rxr is the nuclear receptor and rxr is the nucle retive well there's R RS r o RS rxrs rzrs and so these nuclear receptors are profoundly important but how much of that is on the internet none there's no information about that then we have retinoic acids there's at least four that we know of allr is sort of the the Workhorse but uh there's there's nine cysts 11 cysts 13 cysts and these are very these are hormones very powerful hormones that help run the body and how does all of this happen when sunlight kisses our body it activates the breakdown of retinol and we've all been conditioned to just look at vitamin D and not consider anything else and so does sunlight stimulate the synthesis of D we know it does but it also stimulates the breakdown of retinol which is absolutely essential and what's the pivotal agent for both of those events benine folic acid oh and what does folic acid have oh yeah it's a copper dependent B vitamin doesn't work without copper and so this is not taught in practitioner school you're taught about folic acid not folate I didn't know about folate until I was talking to lese CL and so it's just these are the hidden gems that people don't know about that there's a binary uptake mechanism for a and d and if you flood the body with d you're not going to get a and you have to step back and have you ever studied uh emology embryology what what are only what I was required to do at Medical School yeah but what are probably didn't get into the nutrients that are essential for proper brain formation proper nervous system formation and there's three that they'll talk about when you get into the the nutrient side of it magnesium copper and retinol that beta kerene retinol again there's a there's a potency to retinol in the animal based form so you have precursor and pre formed precursor is beta keratin preformed is the animals done the work for you the right the the the beauty of the cow it takes it takes the the beta katene in the grass and turns it into retinol in the tissue right and there's a series of chemical reactions that take place that we can't do because we're not cows but but what's important is there's something called retinol equivalency unit m one unit of beta carotene does not equal one unit of retinol it's 12 units of beta carotene equals one unit of retinol you can eat a bag of carrots or you can take a spoonful of codiv oil so there's an efficiency and and a potency to retinol that's not found in and beta carotin the other point that I would make is that there's an there's an enzyme that in fact converts beta carotene into um a more advanced form of of retinol right and it's called beta carotene monooxygenase what's the battery pack for bcfo it's copper I would I would imagine oxygen and copper copper absolutely yeah that's exactly right and so there's a there's a very deep relationship between our retinol and copper in our body that is not uh carefully understood uh in practitioner circles and I I when you look at the um again look at historical cookbooks you're going to find a tremendous dependency on butter and the forms of retinol that our ancestors were very familiar with that have been been engineered out because we have a more refined diet and that doesn't mean that it's a more nutritious or more metabolically advanced diet yeah I I think what's really interesting about vitamin A when I started looking into it is I somebody uh gave me a paper on vitamin A of course they worried about vitamin A toxicity and they said vitamin A uh results in osteoporosis vitamin A causes osteoporosis and I thought that's weird I don't know why that would happen and so you look at the papers and they look at consumption of vitamin A and there is a U-shaped curve in association with with vitamin A and osteoporosis so both what that means for those that don't know what a U-shaped curve is is that there's risk on both sides both low and high one of those things where maybe there's a sweet spot and so we have as doctors we've been told watch out for vitamin A toxicity because everybody has access to Polar Bear liver and it's you know it's going to be in our diet uh which is literally it's on the the the Medical Board Test like every every year the know somebody goes hunting in Alaska and eats the liver of the polar bear because this happens a lot um anyway and so so I started looking into this and I thought okay well how much vitamin A would one have to eat to become vitamin A toxic and that's when I learned for the first time about the retinol activity equivalents most of the other nutrients are listed in the you know the minimum threshold of whatever the FD the FDA the whatever you want to call those things which are for acute illness anyway not for optimization but they're listed in milligrams micrograms you know some sort of measurement like that vitamin A is listed in Rae right retinol activity equivalents and so I had of course like I've never heard of an Rae so you go back and look and essentially what they're saying is there is no amount of beta carotene that we can say will be adequate because there is there are two issues to get it from beta keratine into retinol in the body is that you have to absorb it and then you have to convert it and like you just said morly we are not we are we are not cows we don't convert it well and it's going to be different from person to person and then the absorption is going to be different from person to person so there's no way to know is it one bag of carrots or is it 10 bag of carrots to get to what it will be an an optimal amount of rae and so that's why I started looking at for my patients and I said look we're not going to focus on plant sources of of beta katene they're Irrelevant for us at this point what we want to know is how much Rae and honestly let's just give you retino right so let's use cod liver oil and so that's when we started adding clo in um and we are now measuring retinol in blood as well right um so we don't have we don't have enough data to know now is are we impacting it positively because we're also impacting vitamin D which we're going to talk about later but I think it's interesting when you look at recommendations about beta carotene the the papers will say just eat beta cartine because it's going to be safer you don't have to worry about toxicity and you'll convert what you need and get rid of the rest and I think there's no there no evidence to say that that's true they're just leaning on this idea that well plants are safe so that must be fine well what I've come to realize is that when the when the W The Winds of of recommendation tell me that there's copper toxicity and ranol toxicity I know enough to to question that and the the thing that's important is for people to re I I had a client who actually was from Germany he presented uh what what he said was retinol toxicity vitamin A toxicity we got into into his blood work and into his I I do what I affectionately refer to as a stress Mosaic find out what's what's the pattern of stress in your life and this guy was off the chart turns out um when when all the dust settled uh he wasn't eating a really pristine diet there was a lot of glyphosate in his diet so suddenly we have a mineral Dynamic that's very different under that condition and when when we've Stripped Away all of the the verbiage from another practitioner turned out he was iron toxic to the core and the symptoms of iron toxicity are being blamed on retinol toxicity we're back to the same bait and switch that we had before Oh the the the copper causing mosia well in fact maybe it's the iron that's causing it and now we're talking about Iron's not being regulated properly because we live in a very uh cpro deficient world and and so now they're going to point at the retinol and I really think that the the glyphosate issue is compromising the copper which is affecting the metabolism of vitamin A in our body that's where I think the the breakdown is yeah yeah and you you alluded to it a little bit earlier too about vitamin D and supplementation of vitamin D through kolic calciferol is going to have an impact on on retinol levels as well even if you are consuming it which is again another reason to use cod L oil because it's they low a low amount of vitamin D is going to be found in COD L oil and it's going to complement the vitamin A rather than overload it so um well Morley I think we actually did it in a very reasonable amount of time we covered three very big topics I would like to congratulate both of us um um any uh parting words for the audience on this and and I will just say it so that I know it's going to happen is that our next conversation is going to be about vitamin D so we'll we'll talk we'll dig into the the deception as it were and um but anything uh any parting thoughts for the audience on these these three topics um I I think it's important for people to appreciate that there's more to the story and that there's a lot of opinion on the internet interet uh and I think what we have to do is take the time to to dig a little bit and see is there another perspective that I don't know about are there are there nutrient factors that I've never really been trained in like enzyme functions that are in play that might be influencing The Narrative that I'm being being trained in yeah yeah absolutely yeah I think it's great and we should always be asking questions and we should always be learning um and I keep finding over and over again that the truth is generally going to be in the minority um so we keep we keep digging and learning and uh applying things that make sense to apply and and your work has been really helpful for that morle so I appreciate that all right great job making it to the end of that video These topics are very challenging to do in a uh short succinct way so I hope you found that really helpful um if you have questions feel free to leave them in the comments on YouTube and uh myself and my team will get through all of those uh if you have already listened to one of our master classes I would encourage you if you need more more information to consider looking at our health span Nation or bone foundations course specifically for osteoporosis uh you can find out more information on both of those uh products at drd lucas.com uh great resources at low cost uh to get you information that you need and that is it so my friends remember that you are created for greatness so seek optimal not average don't be afraid to be extraordinary because you are and that's what it takes I'll see you next time [Music]