Les Secrets des Chemises et des Cravates !

My God, my God, my God, do you realize how much a simple shirt like this becomes an object of almost incredible technicality? Let's talk about buttons because they are in front of me. Poplin, cotton twill, a little bit of Oxford, we can do a little dobie because it's nice, it brings a little variety. You were also telling me that the thing that really blew your mind at home was all the shirts in cotton denim, so in jeans. I can't even turn it around, it's not very easy. It's the hundreds and hundreds of collars that Howard's made. It's feeling beautiful, feeling better about yourself and understanding what you're wearing. And I think we have an absolute need. Ladies and gentlemen, I vote for superficiality. My condolences to all the well-thinkers. Ladies and gentlemen, hello and welcome to this new episode of Sartorial Discussions. As promised during my interview with Frédéric Costa, we meet again around this table to talk about semantics, to talk about technique, to talk about the insides of a shirt and a tie, and to give you a little bit of a clue about these two objects of sartorial art that may seem a bit trivial to non-connoisseurs, but you'll see that there's a lot of technicality behind it. And many of you always ask us, but what is it, Mr. Jacob Aikin, a triplet? Do I have to take with or without lining? How is a collar mounted? So there are a lot of things that are not easy to master. And so, with Frédéric, we decided to dedicate a show. So I was going to say a short show. The problem is that at home, as soon as we say short, you're already shooting for 20 minutes, at least. So we don't know the duration of this episode, but in any case, we're going to take our time to try to explain to you or give you a whole bunch of information on the slightly more technical aspect of a shirt, and which can, I hope, guide you in your choices when you go to see Frédéric. So Sonia made me a slightly special request. She would like Frédéric to give an introduction and say hello to people with two or three sentences in Italian. Could you do that for us, please? It's a pleasure. Hello everyone. My name is Frédéric. I am very happy to be here today with Hugo. Thank you very much for the welcome. Of course, of course. Thank you very much. That's it. She wanted that. It's a little personal gift for Sonia, because she knows we have a lot of subscribers in Italy and I know it will make them happy to hear a little Italian about sartorial discussions. I don't know if that's how it's said. You have to be careful not to speak too much with your hands. Exactly. But I think I must have very, very far from Italian origins. By the way, my name, Giacometti, sounds a little Italian. Let's get back to our sheep. And I don't think so, because in this case, it's not a sheep, but what I have in my hands. Ladies and gentlemen, tell us what this thing is. So it's not a wig. It's not for me. What is this thing? It's cotton. It's Egyptian cotton. All right. So Egyptian cotton, when it's, how do you say, it's already transformed, when it's harvested. And the raw cotton, in quotes, to start making a shirt, it has this head. It has this head, it's hand-harvested? Yes. So the two biggest cotton producers, in luxury, there is Egypt. There are also the cotton a little bit more particular, which we know under the name of Sea Island. So they turned it into a label. Sea Island, it was a region of England at one time, right? So, in fact, it's the Barbados Islands. In fact, what happened is that we made some... You can continue, it's pretty nice. We made a label, in fact, if you want. There are people who took Egyptian cotton plants on the Nile Valley, who planted them on the Barbados Islands and who turned it into a label. They have a climate that is a bit equivalent in terms of heat, humidity, and which is conducive to the development of cotton. Okay, so Sea Island is rather a very thin, very, very thin, long fiber cotton. Rather summer, normally, Sea Island. We can make it in winter too. We can make it in winter, it depends, but you really have to see it a little bit. If you compare it with wine, it's like a millesime, in fact. Okay. There's this really millesime label side. There's a production that's reduced with very particular criteria. These are extremely long threads. Okay. So they're thinner. Yes. Now, if you stay in Egypt, it's one of the most beautiful cotton in the world too. Egyptian cotton is one of the references. A little point of detail before you put a lot of comments on the subject. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, I'm not wearing a tie today. Obviously, ladies and gentlemen, for the simple reason that I'm wearing a hard collar, a straight collar. And so it's a prototype. I'm lucky. So I set myself a challenge during our last episode with Frédéric, because when he made the prototype of this absolutely splendid shirt, which he calls the Nido, I told him, I want to be the first to wear it. He said to me, you know, we've already received a lot of requests because I put it on Instagram and we're producing it. So I don't know when this show will be broadcast. Here we are at the very end of March. It's March 28th. There's a big demonstration in Paris at the moment. And so he said to me, you know, I'm not sure, but I'll send you the first prototypes. And luckily, I tried the prototype that he had at home today. And it fits me like a glove. So here it is. So it's a straight collar shirt. Very pretty. I think it's very, very beautiful. And it's the fabric. It's a dobby fabric. With a little bit of texture. So here it is. It's a shirt. So I'll show it to you. So Frédéric told me, don't advertise too much, because we might have this just at the beginning of the summer. Exactly. It's in production today. But look at how classy it is. It's both relaxed. It's pretty. It's going to be around 250 euros, a little less. We're trying to do a little less. Okay, so I answered your question. So no need to comment, but your shirt, etc. Watch the show and you'll have the information. And if you want to know more, send an email to Frédéric Costa. I secretly dream that he's overflowing with emails from you, but that's just my dream. Thank you, Hugo. Anyway, let's go back in time. So Egyptian cotton fabric, which is the standard goal. It's really the standard for quality shirts. Because there are small quality shirts that are not made with cotton. Exactly. There's a lot of cotton from Ukraine. Okay. And from America. Okay. America is a big cotton producer. Yes, of course. But then it goes through China. It's woven in China. Yes. And so it comes out on levels that are lower than Egyptian cotton. Okay. So let's talk quickly. We had already addressed the subject in the previous episode together. Large fabric families, large cotton families. And with the large cotton weaving families. So remind me of the four or five important style figures to know. For the most important ones, we could mention poplin, which is a smooth fabric. Yes. Twill, which is a diagonal structure. Oxford, which is a kind of little bee's nest. Zephyr, which is a derivative of poplin, but a little lighter, rather intended for the summer. Okay. Filafil, which is very, very, very business. It's where we give a little different color. Exactly. A thread on two. So there's a white alternating thread and a colored thread. It can be blue sky, gray. Anyway, that's it. Filafil. Always the same, with a fairly light hand. Yes. We could also mention the giro inglese in the summer. The what? The giro inglese. So it's a slightly Italian term. Giro inglese. Yes, yes. And so that makes you think a little bit of this very airy mesh, like silk grenadine. Okay. But on shirt fabric. So it's something very, very, very open. Okay. Very airy. We can also talk about jersey, possibly. The jersey. A little more polo style. Very, very beautiful. Very, very beautiful that we have been using for a long time. For a few seasons in polo shirt. Okay. That is, in mixed polo shirt. Okay. What do you call the dobby? And the dobby, which is also part of the family. That's dobby. Yes, that's a dobby. Okay. With a little texture, actually. Yes, exactly. As soon as you see a slightly textured fabric that is not on an oxford structure, not diagonal, it is often a dobby. So if I start, as we have already explained, but it's good to remind them. So if I start, I buy my first shirts, I make twill of cotton and poplin to have the big basics. Poplin, twill of cotton, a little bit of oxford. We can make a little dobby because it's nice, it brings a little variety. Okay. And above all, people will say to themselves, I have a blue sky shirt, but it is a little bit worked. Yes. And it's still nice to look at someone and say to yourself, he doesn't have a simple shirt that you see everywhere. Of course, of course, of course. So I would like to show our listeners and our subscribers how cards are presented. So I don't know how to say it, we say liasses for the fabric, but it's rather cards. That's it. That's how the fabric looks like, the shirt fabric. So of course there are, there is a card on hundreds and hundreds and hundreds. Cheche Alumo, very beautiful Swiss manufacturer. They are Swiss. So I said, we're going to take it at random. I took Seuil et la Royale. So it's still there. We are in the very, very, very high range. So you see. So if you make a tailor-made shirt at home, you have access to, I don't know, hundreds, if not thousands. Thousands. Yes. Thousands, thousands. Yes. So what you have to understand is how it is distributed. I work with everyone. It's Italian, English, Swiss. Okay. So here we are Swiss. Here we are Swiss. Here, Thomas Mason, it's Italo-English. Because there's DJ Anderson, I think he's very famous. Exactly. Here, I don't want to show you everything, because there are hours and hours, but you see. So that's really the basis. That is to say that you start by choosing your fabric. So if you are ready to wear, obviously you buy the shirts that are in the range, but even ready to wear, how many different fabrics do you have? It's huge. Yes, we have quite a few. Depending on the collections, by collection, we make about thirty, plus the permanent ones, we have to get to maybe, I think we have 111. 111 fabrics? Yes. One, one, one, 111. Ready to wear, yes. And then in size? In size, we counted, we stopped at maybe 4,000. 4,000. Because what you have to understand is that in fact, we work with all the weavers. Yes. So in Italy, there are already a lot. Okay. And then we can have affinities. Yes. So we have customers who will come and say, I love Alumo, I want to order something from Alumo. That's very good, Alumo. It's very, very good. It's a little more expensive than in Italy, because it's Swiss. Yes. So we're going to work with Alumo. Yes. So we're not just content to have a stock of fabrics and offer that this one, we're going to buy the fabric cut from Alumo, we send it to the workshop, we're going to cut the shirt, or the shirt, for the customer. And we do that with all the weavers. Okay, okay. You were also telling me that there was something that was really up for grabs at your place, it was all the denim cotton shirts, so in jeans. Exactly, in denim. It gives a slightly more relaxed look. The denim shirt, it has something, how to say, magical. Yes. That is, you know what you're ordering, you don't know what you're going to get. Yes. So it can scare people, but I love this frisson. Because it's a product where it can be a little more washed out, it can be according to the dye. Exactly, of course, the dye. And in fact, you won't have two shirts like that. Oh yes, because it can't be exactly the same thing. By the way, to tell you everything, you know it very well, even in a suit, when you think about it, when you make a tailored suit, it happened to me, that's why I always advise you, ladies and gentlemen, it's a little aside, to make two pants when, if you have the means, make two pants when you order a tailored suit, because when, in particular, it is large-scale, it is not necessarily a large production, and so they simply order a tailored suit. And it happened to me, to crack a pair of pants on my first tailored suit in 2008, it dates a little bit. And after 10 years of good and loyal service, the pants, he couldn't take it anymore, he gave up. And I said to myself, well, it doesn't matter, it's a T-shirt from Draper, I'm going to ask Lorenzo to call Draper, but he said, no, because the baths and the dye, it's never the same. You can't have exactly the same nuance. So on a very dark color, it can work, but for me, it was impossible, I could only see that with the eye. So finally, I decided to transform my blue cross into a blazer by changing the buttons, which is another little technique to make a blazer last much longer, if not for what concerns me all my life, because now this blazer accompanies me pretty much everywhere. So that's the fabric, let's say, seen from above, because there are still plenty of things potentially available. Once again, go visit Frédéric and you will have a special course on fabrics. I hope I'm not advertising too much, that there won't be a line in front of your house for a particular course, but I know you like to do that kind of thing. So now we're going to talk about the shirt. So here, fabric is, let's say, the raw material to make a shirt. Now, we're going to try to describe a shirt, let's say, starting with, so what are the, I was going to say from top to bottom, but to make it even simpler, what are the two very important things? Once we've talked about the cotton, which is the body of the shirt, the two very important things are the collar and the wrists. Exactly. So tell us a little bit about collars, how do we choose, how do we draw? So I'm going to show you something, ladies and gentlemen, which is going to, so I was surprised, so I don't know where it is, it's here. This is a book, I'll try to show it to the camera. It's all the collars, I can't even turn it, it's a bit, it's not very easy. There you go. It's the hundreds and hundreds of collars that Howard's has made since the creation, that's it. Yeah. How many are there? 150? In this book, there are 123. 123. 123 different collars. It's completely amazing. So that means that, of course, after you wear it, you always have a dozen collars, nine, nine, that's it. But on the other hand, you can choose anything in the 123 collars. So that's what we found easiest with the partner factory I work with, to reference and so that it's as clear for a client as it is for me. Okay. To understand each other. Yeah. That is, you come in and say, here, I love this collar. We're going to call it, I don't know, St. James. Yeah. The next time, you're going to say, my collar is the St. James. Okay. So you referenced it while at first, when I started, it was completely different. It was a Western. Okay. We were in, you know, the Italian collar with a point length of 6, a collar fold of 3.8, etc. So you referenced it over the years. Little by little, we referenced it. So at first, we started with numbers, a bit like perfumes. Yeah. Then we said to ourselves, well, it doesn't speak to people. I can't say, my collar is 509 from SJ, because the guy, he's lost. Yeah, of course. You see? So we started giving them names. Yeah. Then we found it easier. And the same goes for the wrists. The wrists, we could have given them names, we could have given them numbers. Yeah. You see, so there's the wrist, one, two, three, four, etc. And then, from year to year, we make them and then we go up, we go up, we go up. Great. So I love that, because it's all a bit technical. So let's talk about collars in particular. There's everything that's the assembly inside. So, show us, show us this thing. So this is a collar. Exactly. This is a... It's two collars, in this case. So the collar, we start with a drawing. Yeah. We start with a drawing, so on paper. Yeah. We could make a collar per customer. Okay. Okay? So in the ready-to-wear, obviously, we've predefined things, because otherwise people won't get by. Of course. And we're on very small variations. So imagine that a half centimeter on a collar, it becomes huge. A half centimeter, yeah, it changes everything. It changes everything, the proportion, and in fact, it doesn't suit everyone. Yeah. So, in fact, you'd almost need, I'm not going to say a collar per customer, but not far, if you're really stingy. Of course. But you have to do that on the measurement. You can't do it on the ready-to-wear. Remind us of the price of a measurement at home in a shirt. About 250 euros. 250 euros for a shirt on measure. So it's a semi-industrial measurement. Of course. But it's tailor-made. And you choose the collars, the stitches, everything. With a lot of alterations. We've pushed the button as far as possible over the years to make something that is as clean, as precise as possible. Okay. And by comparison, the ready-to-wear is around 150. Exactly. So 150 for a ready-to-wear, of very high quality, made in Italy. 250 for a measurement. I can testify that it's very competitive on the market compared to the competition. It's competitive. It's organized for being. I mean, I do the market the day before. I know exactly what's going on everywhere. And not just in France. Everywhere in Europe, and even a little further than Europe. Okay. And that's my business. That's how it's been working for a long time. And that's how I see things. I wanted to have your opinion on this. People who put their foot in your measurement at home, do they manage to come back in ready-to-wear? Or is it difficult? It's difficult. Yes. After that, there are some, I think, who do a good job. Because if you want, they're going to buy ready-to-wear products that are on collection, with exclusives, things that they can only have at the moment. Okay, okay. And that's still great. Because I'm a bit like that. So, I do the measurement shirts, of course. But it happens to me when I flash on a fabric or on... And you're right, exactly a denim shirt with a buttoned collar, etc. I willingly take it ready-to-wear. And somewhere, it's nice, I was going to say, to let yourself go. Yes. To go home and say, I had no idea. Oh, that's great. I would never have bought it. But since I see it, you see, I'm going to take it. And then I have an opportunity tomorrow. I'm going to wear it tomorrow. I agree with that. I like that magic side. To say, I didn't expect this. I would never have bought it. But since I see it finished, I'm going to take it. So, tell us about the collars. So, this is a collar. So, we start with a pattern. Yes. Then, we're going to choose what we put inside. What we put inside is called the triplure. Okay. The triplure, in fact, is a small strip of fabric that is made in France by a company called DHJ. Yes. And which, in fact, is based on... In fact, it's used to reinforce the collar. To reinforce, yes. Okay. So, a collar potentially without a triplure, that's what we call a flexible collar, right? Italians do it from time to time. Well, not necessarily flexible. We would put a triplure, because it's still better, but it would be very light. Very light. You have triplure books that are thick like that, with different weights, different compositions. There could be cotton, etc., etc. Okay. You see? You really have something that is very, very, very comfortable. And here, for example, what you're showing me is different soft triplures. So, I always like, with people, to go as far as possible and give them as many tools as possible. So, on the same fabric, on a thread, we just changed the thickness of the triplure. Okay, I'm going to show it to the camera. The thickness is different. So, this is a hard collar. What we call, it's really very rigid. And there's the whole range, but this is a little more flexible. So, basically, you have the choice, even to the extreme detail, to see the collar, how do you say, the hold of the collar. The hold of the collar, depending on the client, on his feelings. When I met you 10 years ago, you liked very heavy collars. Very. I like that it's fabric. It was very, very straight. I was wearing English collars at the time, collar-straps. Very straight, with a very small collar foot. Maybe today, you're a little more Italian. I'm a little more loose. Yeah, we'll say it's fine. So, we bring a little more flexibility. We have the banana movi, but behind, we have a lot of lightness for the fold. On the other hand, we have to reinforce it a little bit. So, all of this, if we want to make a parallel, for the readers, for the listeners, etc. For the subscribers. For the subscribers, sorry. Imagine we're talking about seasoning. You're going to want, I was going to say, a little more salt, a little less pepper. Well, in the triples, we're right in there. We're in the taste. Generally, in over-measurement, you aim in the middle, a little bit at the level... We talk a little bit with the client. No, I'm sorry. In close-up, you aim a little bit in the middle. I imagine that in over-measurement, the client... In close-up, I'm really going to say things. I take full responsibility for what I do. Okay. I leave nothing to chance. Of course. Because if you want, it's in a very, very scientific way, on light fabrics, to arrive with a very, very thick triples. Yes, it doesn't work. Lifetime. It's not going to hold. I understand. So if you want, I take the front ones. I tell myself, I think as best as I can for my client. Yes. But that means that... My question, actually, that means that on each model of ready-to-wear shirt, you take the lead to know which one is the best triples. Yes, we put in place large lines because we're still here to be optimal in terms of preparation time. Okay. On the ready-to-wear, we said to ourselves, on all these fabrics, all these hairs, we use this category of triples, etc., etc. We made a little bit of... Here you go, large road sheets so that the girls at the workshop don't get it wrong and they do what they need to do. Excellent. Let's move on to the wrists now. I have a little... I could play with it. All pink or all blue. So there, the wrists, same thing. Well, if we're measuring, you have a choice... Same. ...completely unlikely. A lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of choices. So the two big style figures, that's what we call the simple wrists and the musketeer wrists. So, for a musketeer, I imagine it's a very small part of what you sell. It works a little bit for the wedding. Yes. Ceremonies in general. Yes, of course, of course. It takes up space, it's nice. But after that, we sell a little less anyway. Yes, of course. For years. Even in special orders, even in measurements, we still have a lot less in demand. So, simple wrists, ladies and gentlemen, for those who are not used to this nomenclature and semantics, simple wrists, well, it's just a wrist like me, with a button. Buttoned. Musketeer wrists, we have to wear cufflinks. So, there are several schools on the subject. I think I wear musketeer wrists from time to time with cufflinks, especially for ceremonies, a little special parties, etc. I'm less fond of cufflinks, let's say, for a little business outfits. But that being said, it's strictly subjective. It's a matter of taste. And so, at your place, so, in measure, I imagine, the sky is the limit in terms of wrists. You want to make them rounded, cut. And there's this famous, this famous... So, I call it... So, it has 50 different nicknames, this famous wrist that makes... It looks like it's a musketeer wrist, but in fact, there's a button in the middle. The Neapolitan. So, I had other nicknames, which is quite pretty. And I think it's a bit of a middle ground like that. I know that. It looks like a musketeer wrist with buttons. Exactly. Or a button. Yeah, exactly. You know how to do that, of course. Of course, of course. And in ready-to-wear, it's... Well, I imagine you have two styles. The simple wrists you offer in ready-to-wear, generally, they're straight, quite simply, cut straight. They're bevelled, a single button. Because we tend to go to simpler things. A few years ago, we had two buttons, rather bevelled. But, there you go. Depending on the school, even in ready-to-wear, I don't hold it in place. I make variations. So, we'll have a French collar a little longer, with a round wrist, a single button. Okay. A buttoned collar, with a bevelled collar. You mean, you put the collar in relation to the wrist. It has to be consistent. It has to be consistent and a little different. I like to give... But, actually, it's still the big lines. Generally, I don't touch them because the customers, once they've tried it, they don't want to touch it. My God, my God, my God. Do you realize how much a simple shirt like that becomes an object of almost incredible technicality? Let's talk about the buttons, because they're in front of me. Exactly. The buttons are... Coral pearls here. It's a whole story. It's hard to show. We're not going to show them to you. Look, I have a handful of buttons, ladies and gentlemen. This is Mother of Pearls. It's coral pearls, right? It's Mother of Pearls. So, it's the most beautiful nacre. It's nacre from Australia. It's nacre. That's it. From Australia. Very good. And here, we have almost infinite color variations. That's it. So, we work with an Italian manufacturer who specializes in nacre buttons. Okay. And we spend time, every year, selecting them, dyeing them too, giving them more or less shiny, matte or colored aspects. Okay. And that means that even on the same shirt, there are never two buttons that are exactly the same. So, we're very careful because that's hand-trimmed. They're all hand-scratched, so they're as beautiful inside as they are outside. Yes. We even go very, very far. I've worked a lot on this, but I've worked on every little detail. I remember that the people who followed me at home were going crazy. Because I was telling them, we're also going to calculate the depth of the throat so that the sewing thread doesn't freeze in the drum of the washing machine to avoid abrasion. Mr. Frédéric Costin, who's not a gift. He's a gift for his customers, but he's not a gift for his producers. No, but at the same time, he found it interesting. He said, he's passionate, he goes all the way. Of course, of course, of course. So, he didn't say no. Yes, yes. So, of course, rule number one, no plastic buttons. Once again, these are the tips we give you. A plastic button, it immediately degrades a shirt. You can see it. It's not very pretty. But it's mostly that it doesn't go with it. At a certain level, you need acrylic buttons. It's a bit like a pretty car. You can't have pretty buttons. It goes with these two series. Of course. You see, there would be inconsistencies. So, there are some who make these inconsistencies. There are big, big names worldwide. Because the impact on the price can be considerable. The buttons, it's very expensive. It's huge. That is, you will go from a few cents, from 0.001 to 0.005, to 50 cents. Oh yes, so it's huge. A button like that is 50 cents an euro. Okay, so that means on a shirt, you already have one for 5 euros. Yes, between 5 and 7 euros. If you say that in a world like this, people really take you for… But that means that someone who produces thousands of shirts, right away, we're talking about thousands of euros of difference. Exactly. The little bag I brought you, there are some for 1,500 euros. Yes, but I'm going to keep it. You see, well, I doubt it. No, I'm kidding. Well, let's continue. So, we've seen about… Then, on the details of a shirt. Grab a shirt. No, you have it in front of you. There you go. So, show him things, for example. So, the whales, of course. We're talking about whales. So, the whales, that's what we put in the collar. Yes. It's this little part here. Okay. So, they can be removable. Here, there you go. That's a removable whale. They can be removable. So, that means that they can be removed or they can be integrated. Okay. So, there are two collars on this one. I was like, ah, always removable, etc., etc. Well, I know, personally, I used to wear integrated collar whales. Well, that didn't change my mind. I still prefer removable, because I like this little movement. And I think it's… Well, I don't know. It's almost a ritual at home. When I… Well, first of all, remove them well when you put them in the washing machine. Removable whales. But it's to stiffen the collar. So, then, go ahead. Take a shirt and tell us if you had to tell me about this shirt. So, five minutes. Tell me about this shirt. Five minutes. First, just to go back to the collar story. Yes. Indeed, in 2023, removable or integrated, it could be discussed. Yes. If we're on the semantic, a removable whale is better. Well, yes. Okay. Now, from a technical point of view, we have developed, precisely with the company with whom I work on the triplets and the whales, special editing. Okay. So that people save time, especially during the interview, don't lose the whales and don't end up in a meeting and say, oh, dear, there are the whales. We did a very special editing which, by the way, is much more expensive than making a simple removable whale. Oh, really? Yes. It costs more. Well, at home, yes. To produce it, it costs more. Yes, I have a whale on the right, a whale on the left, a special edit. Okay. It was really a small factory, really something very special. So, it's a scoop because in the minds of many people, a non-removable whale is a little more expensive. So, I have a lot of shirts ready to wear that have integrated whales. Yes. But it's to make it easy. Yes. Because I thought about it, I said to myself, if we are easy, we buy more easily and we wear more of mine than those of my colleagues. Okay. You see? Historically, I've been doing this for exactly 24 years and I don't have a client who comes and says, oh, sir, I have a whale problem, I have a broken whale that comes out, etc. Yes, yes, yes, yes. You see, like what, you have to... You don't have to rely on... Well, there you go. It's good to keep things from the past. Of course. But it's also good to look at what's going on in the modern world. Yes. And in the modern world, we're moving forward on a lot of things. So, it's also part of my job to go and see what's going on and bring it to people. And, all of a sudden, as we just did, to some ideas received, especially in terms of removable whales. So, Frédéric, I propose a little challenge to you. We took a shirt from Howard's, of course, in front of us. And tell us about this shirt, technically, in five minutes. Come on. So, this shirt, it may be the most particular of the shop. Oh, good. So, in 7 minutes and 30 seconds. Yes, we'll try in 7 minutes and 30 seconds. Okay. It's a shirt that's entirely hand-made. Yes. Okay? So, it's our... That's what we know best from a technical point of view on our shirts. Okay. What you have to understand is that it's not because it's technical that it's better. Yes. So, you have to be careful that... There you go. It's not because we put you through a lot of hand operations that your shirt is of better quality than a shirt that's sewn to the machine. Okay. Okay? So, that's a very, very important point. It's a real debate by purists. So, I've always had the tendency to say that what the machine does better than the hand, let's take the machine. And what the hand does better than the machine, and what the machine will never be able to replace, let's take the hand. But after that, it's always a nice gesture to have a shirt that's entirely hand-made. And it has a very... very hand-made, very Italian side. Yes. And sensual, in a way. Exactly. So, in a way, it brings a little extra soul. So, show us this shirt. Tell us about the construction, the sewing, the sewing stitch, etc. So, on the choice of the collar, we're a little bit on what we said. That is, the customer will choose their collar. You comment, and I'll listen. He'll choose his collar. It's still something very personal. We discuss it, etc., etc. Okay. Same for the collar structure. We saw it earlier. You can choose the thickness, what we call the tripling, and the hardness. Okay. We haven't talked about anything about collars. Yes. But I'm going to talk about it very, very quickly. Yes. On the assembly of the collar, it's a bit like on suits. There are assemblies that are called completely thermo-stitched. Yes. Others, semi-fabricated. And others, free-stitching. Free-stitching. Yes. There you go. Of course, these options are available. Okay. And we recommend you the best depending on the use you have of this product. Okay. That was the small part. The standard is rather semi-fabricated? Semi-fabricated. Yes. Okay. Again, for questions of use, ease of use, maintenance, etc. Of course. Okay. But it doesn't make a difference. I mean, it doesn't have a strong impact on the price. So you shouldn't... Okay. There you go. Okay, okay. We're clear on that. Then? Then we're going to choose the throat. The throat is the front part of the shirt. This is what we call a simple throat. Yes. You'll see it with a small seam. Yes. It's called an American throat. That's it. So this is a simple throat. We don't have an American throat in front of us. Actually, a throat... Yes, on this shirt. Ah, there you go. On this shirt, the throat is American. This is a simple throat. Okay. I'll show you. I'll hide behind the shirt. Hop! There you go. So here, you see, in fact, it's just one fold at the zipper level. There you go. Whereas the so-called American throat, here there is another small seam. You see, this is an American throat. Okay. And there are things without a throat for slightly formal shirts. Exactly. We can cover it up. We can cover it up, that's it. A covered throat to go get the ceremonial shirts. Okay. Or we don't show the buttons. Okay. We hide the buttons. Okay, very good. Let's continue. So that's the first thing. Yes. On this shirt, we notice very small points. And there, I told you, it's a bit of a special shirt. This shirt is entirely handmade. Yes. It has all these operations that are done by hand. So we have a whole bunch of options on it that are not necessarily useful, but we're in the mood and it feels good from time to time. Yes, of course. So the seam, because it's still very, very important for people. There is a big debate about the simple needle seam and the double needle seam. Exactly. I've always learned that the simple needle was more handmade. It creates a very small burlet. That's it. Whereas the double needle is a little flatter. Exactly. And it's more industrial. That's it. It's a matter of equipment. Yes. So when we go through the workshops, there are very high-end workshops that are equipped only with a simple needle. Okay. And others that have both. The two production lines. So it's a story, I was going to say, vulgarly, of bookkeeping. When we do close-range. Okay. I mean, on which line do we want to produce? Okay. Okay? There is a price difference, I imagine. There is a small price difference. But again, here we are talking about a few euros. It's not something significant. Okay. Here we are on a simple needle. Yes, we are on a simple needle. Simple needle. So it creates a very small burlet on the side of the shirt. That's it. It's quite easy to spot. When it's all flat. And with, anyway, we see the two sewing lines. It's a shirt a little more, let's say, industrial, but especially with a double needle technique. And here it's the simple needle technique. Simple needle. And here there is this famous armhole offset. Yes, of course. So there too, that too is something. Once again, we are in the detail. But I find that it still brings a little more comfort. Okay. Because if you want, mechanically, we will tend to have the arms that turn a little forward. And the fact that we don't have the seam, the same seam that connects the sleeve to the body. You see the seam of the sleeve, the seam of the body. They are slightly offset, which means that it gives more ease. Exactly. Okay. That is to say that if you move your arm, you don't move your torso, in fact. Exactly. You can just move your arm. So by slightly offsetting the seam, what you have to see is that also from a workshop point of view, it is an additional operation. That is to say that the girls, they will finish, they will sew the body, they will sew the sleeve, they will sew the sleeve. So it's two operations. Okay. So from a financial business point of view, it costs more. Of course. It takes more time. So it's more money than a shirt sewn in one go. Of course, of course. Yes, of course. So here we are really in the details every time. But it's by adding two little euros here, five euros there. Earlier we were talking about buttons. It's the sum of the details that also makes it an exceptional shirt. Of course, of course. So here are some nice buttons. This one, this button, these buttons are made of padigalina, so made of coque. Made of coque. So padigalina is an Italian term that makes it look a bit like a clover. Yes, that's it. There are others who call it pointe-de-florence too. Pointe-de-florence. So that's really the purists. So I admit, I like that. I think it's pretty, and I think it's classy. So these are really very small points of detail. It won't change your life if you don't have a padigalina on your shirt. Exactly. It's complicated. It's done by hand, but there are machines that know how to do it. There are machines that know how to do it. OK. There are machines that know how to do it. Yes. We do it by hand on our shirts, but there are machines that know how to do it. Yes. It's not a problem. After that, you can have a very, very nice button sewn in a cross, or sewn in parallel, or sewn in an H, or sewn in a Y, or sewn in whatever you want. OK. As long as the button holds, that's the most important thing for us and for the customer. If we go down a little bit, we have the irondelle de renforts. Exactly. We give you the semantics. Collar whale, irondelle de renfort, padigalina. You noticed, it's very animalistic. The whales for the collar. That's true. The padigalina, the shell legs for the buttons, I had never noticed. Yes. The irondelle de renforts. Yes, because it makes you think a little bit about the irondelle wings. But I don't know where that comes from. I mean, this whole semantic thing, like that, you have to dig it up again, how they put it in there. It's possible. Because it's very poetic, from the whale to the irondelle, going through the shell. It's pretty funny, so it's a bestiary. So what's that for? To reinforce a little bit the front and back part. Yes. By putting this little piece of fabric. Historically too, on the shirts, as at the time, there was no ready-to-wear. Yes. It was a place where we signed our shirts. Ah yes. When we made tailor-made shirts, it was a way to put our mark without it being ostentatious. Yes, and on top of that, it also allowed us to locate the shirts. So, of course, it's not monogrammed by definition, because it was made in person. Yes, that's right. So, obviously, you know that. You can put your initials. So, historically, I'll give you... It's always interesting to know why we put these initials on a shirt. So people say, ah, because it's sophisticated, it's chic. Not at all. At the time, long before the era of the shirt, in quotation marks, of mass production, people, nobles, wore white shirts, all white shirts. That's why we say a blue collar, a blue collar for people who weren't nobles, because people who weren't aristocratic, couldn't wash their shirts at the laundry constantly. So they wore blue shirts that were less dirty. And the aristocrats, or people who had money, put their shirts to be washed at the laundry. The problem is that, as they all looked the same, there weren't even curved pieces. They were very straight things like that. All the shirts looked the same. So we had to put a monogram by hand with the initials to know who the shirts belonged to. It's the origin of the monograms, which we call numbers, and which we put on the shirt. And since then, it's become, let's say, a little sign of sophistication. Let's say, so there are people who put it very, very contrasted, very high, even on the wrist, so that it can be seen. I tend to put it three quarters on the belly and rather tone on tone. But it's a little signature. I put an H and I put an S in the middle. It's my wife Sonia and J. I like to have my wife always a little lower than the heart, but on the heart, exactly. My wife, who almost passed in front of the spotlight just because she hadn't noticed. You see how natural we are here, that we were recording. She thought we were having a little discussion because with Frédéric, we talk nonsense anyway, all day long. So we did about the whole thing. Oh no, there's a trap. We didn't see the sleeves. Oh yes, go ahead. We didn't see the shoulders. Go ahead, go ahead. The shoulders on this shirt, we realize that they don't have a seam. They have a very small hand stitch. You see? And in fact, I push the plug even further by asking the girls at the workshop to have much more tightened stitches at the bottom, which increase because we have a lot more torsion at the level of the armpit. Okay. Wow, that's very, very good. And so all of this is done by hand. It makes something very, very clean. Same here, the square, what we call this part. So obviously, for people to understand, a shirt made by hand like this is generally tailor-made. Yes, it's tailor-made. And here we're talking about what price? Well, you take the tailor's price, which is around 250 euros, and you add another 100 euros. 100 euros for all the stitches by hand? Because it's hours of work. It's hours of work. In fact, it's calculated, I was going to say, by the stopwatch. Yes. Okay, so we're not, I was going to say, Stakanovich of the thing. We're not going to stopwatch behind the girls at the workshop, but there's still a notion of profitability, to say to ourselves, if we do something, if we take 20 minutes to make a buttonhole, it's not possible. Yes, of course. We have to sell it more expensive. But it's a nice object. Okay. And there's a real supplement. You wanted to talk about the handles, right? The handles are the same. We saw the sleeves go up by hand. Yes. Same, when you add little reinforcements like that. So, this, Travetto? Travetto, yes. Travetto. So, we can also put it here, we can also put it on the bottom of... We put them everywhere, in fact. We put them on the closing points, each time on the throat. Okay. It's a little higher, look. A little higher. And inside. And we put them on top. And here, that's it. So, Travetto, it's this little... A lot of people love this little thing. It's a little signature like that. Everything is in the little level of detail, but it really has a function. Yes, it's supposed to be on paper, in any case, reinforced. In fact, it's pretty. It's pretty. And then, as I often say to my clients, because there are some who say to me, but what's the point of all this? It's chichis. Yes. I say, yes, but chichis are good. Yes, of course, of course. Somewhere, it's reassuring to have someone who... I always come back to the notion of superficiality in the world, in the literal sense. I think we need it. Nietzsche said that the Greeks were superficial by depth. You know, I have two obsessions. Baudelaire, modernity, and Nietzsche, superficiality by depth. It's reality. What do we need from superficiality? Today, we take everything seriously. Everything is very serious. Everything is very coded. It has to be concrete. We have become slaves to the concrete. Even journalists, when they say, but yes, but concretely, what does it mean? But I don't know concretely what it means. Beauty is not concrete. It's subjective. It's pleasure. It's rejoicing. It's joy. It's feeling beautiful. It's feeling the best of yourself. And then understanding how we behave. And I think we have an absolute need. Ladies and gentlemen, I vote for superficiality. I wish all the well-meaning people the best of luck. Have we gone around this track yet? No, not yet. Maybe we have. We could say that we have almost gone around it. We have to be careful, for our young listeners, about the number of points per centimeter. That's very important. The more points there are, the smaller the seams are, the more we are on something of quality. We are around 9 points per centimeter. We are on something good. Can it go up to 13, 14, 15 points? Yes, but then you don't have to race either. I agree. It's like the super numbers in fabrics. Super 250 doesn't mean much anymore. And then stay on the fundamentals. That is, if we are in the chichi, as we often say, the base must be perfect. That is, a beautiful fabric, a very nice cut, and a nice tip so that the person has the right collar and the right wrists. And after that, the rest is almost... I was going to say, it's the little cherry on the cake. Exactly. But the cake must be top. Exactly. Very good. So you had the anatomy of a shirt. I think you know pretty much everything you need to know. Then we could go into a more technical level of detail, but I think you would be less interested. Let's talk about ties quickly to conclude this show. So show me this thing. I think it's really funny and pretty. What is this thing? He's going to show it to the camera. We're going to take it both ways. Explain to us what this is. I imagine it's a tie. It's a comb that's provided for that. So this one, I had it made in England. Yes. On one of the most famous weaving crafts. It's not a flag of a country, ladies and gentlemen. It's not a nation. It's the International Sartorial Federation. Exactly, it's a beautiful flag. So that's when you had it made, a tie. Why? Well, that's before the birth of ties. That is, we take a drawing. So I take it out of the archives, it's in black and white. And then we're going to color it. And to color it, we're going to choose threads in a chain and in a braid. So here we have all the chains alternated with the braid. Vertical chain, horizontal braid, or the other way around? No, it's in that direction. The chain is like that, and the braid is like that. And so, in fact, it allows you to realize the rendering. The rendering. And then you didn't make all the ties. You look at it like that, and you say, that's pretty. You got it all. You do this gesture, by the way. Yes, that's exactly it. So if we really go all the way, we cut the ties at 45 degrees. So we fold them all at 45 degrees. Machinically, we fold them all at 45 degrees. And so we're going to say, well, on that, I'll see that. Okay, I got it. It's going to be pretty. What do we do? We throw it. Bim, we throw it. It's funny, it's funny. Okay, so that was a little detail, but I love it. Here we go, we're going to throw it over there. Boom, let's go. So let's continue now. So that, I have a weird thing in front of my eyes. I have two, by the way. That's what we call a... A triplet. A triplet of ties. So that's the inside of some ties. Of the vast majority of ties. Okay. Which is actually an ultra-technical element, once again made by companies who do their business by doing things like that. So you have to understand that in each tie, when you're a tie-maker, you've chosen the triplet. Okay. That is, on a light fabric, if I want to get this hand, which is called the hand, I'm going to put this triplet. I have to have that inside. Exactly. So that's the front of the tie. That's the back. Okay. They're already pre-cut for precision and time reasons, because we're still conditioned by time. Of course. You see? But it's from that that we get the shape of our ties. So, on a tie, three folds. Generally, you can put the triplet. If it's doubled, you put it all the way down. On a seven-fold tie, generally, it stops... It depends. You can make doubled seven-folds, others non-doubled. Okay. With triplets or no triplets. You can do whatever you want. It depends a little bit on the philosophy we have. And that's up to each person. Yes. Do you leave a little bit of triplet, even on a seven-fold, at the top of the tie? Well, look, I'll give you a parallel with gastronomy. Yes. Maurizio Marinella in Naples, he likes very thick hands. Yes. So he puts triplets. He puts triplets. Yes. Okay? Even though he's one of the most famous tie makers in the world, but he likes triplets. He likes triplets. He likes that they have a little bit of a firm hand. Yes. Jean-Claude Colbon in Paris, at Charvet. Yes. He likes silk to speak on its own. Okay. He puts a very light triplet. Yes. He wants that when you touch the tie, your hand plunges into the silk. I've seen ties in Naples without triplets at all. Yes. It's special. Of course. With Calabrese, by the way, our friend and I made a series of 12 folds. It was a little delirium when we did it. It was very special. On the other hand, it consumes a lot of silk, of course, because it has to be a hand. And I'm not convinced that... It's very beautiful. We'll do it again. I don't know if we'll do it again one day or not, but it was just a little performance we could do. We made 12 models. Yes, but it was nice. Yes, it was very nice. It's a form of delirium, a form of art. Yes. I like that it's curious. You see, we use words, it feels like we're talking about fresh cream. It's true. No, I promise you. It's true. People hear us talk. You're wearing a 7-fold. It's a simple 3-fold. It's very pretty. A normal 3-fold. There's a 3-fold here. There's a 3-fold, there's a double. Because it's double. You see, it's double. Exactly. So you can hide this thing, the 3-fold that gives hand. So there you go. You see? No... How do you say it? And if you want, it's not because you have a non-double 7-fold at 179 euros that it's better than a tie like mine, which costs a hundred euros. Yes, that's it. It's a matter of taste, of day, of approach. Yes. So I can tell you, I have a lot, a lot, a lot of ties. I have 3-folds. I have 7-folds. I even have 12-folds. I have triples, no triples, with doubles, no doubles. It's not very important. I think that, once again, your best friends in the sartorial world are your eyes and your hands. And your nose too, a little bit, because I like to put myself on ties. I think it smells good. We talked about it in the previous show. There's something very sensual in all of this. I think we've about done the trick. So, to sum up, quality shirts have given you a few points of reference. We've given you the big basics. Pay attention to the collar. Choose well. Oh yes, there's something we haven't talked about. I think the choice of a collar is also dictated by the morphology of your face. That is to say, if you have a very small head, don't put on very generous collars because you're going to be completely lost. On the contrary, if you have a big head like me, I didn't say the big head, I said a big head, well, I need fairly generous collars because I have a fairly voluminous head. So I also think there's a respect for proportions, but again, with someone like Frédéric in the boutique, he will advise you on this kind of thing. Proportions are really the key to everything in the art sartorial. So there you have it, Awards, 45 rue d'Amsterdam in the 8th arrondissement of Paris, the border between the 8th and the 9th, custom costumes between 1,200 and 1,500 euros with an extraordinary work done in Italy, custom shirts and ready-to-wear shirts, about 250 for the custom shirt, about 150 for the shirt and about 150 for the shirt ready-to-wear with a completely plethoric choice. So, for him, the choice is inversely proportional to the size of the shop. Yes, that's what you often say, very small. But there is a choice per square centimetre which is absolutely delusional, even if in terms of collars I advise you to go and have a look at all the collars that are available at his shop, it's a hallucination. So, that's the shirts, the accessories, the ties, the three pleats, the seven pleats, the pockets, mostly in Italy, for the most part, almost everything, everything is made in Italy. Because in France, we don't have much left, unfortunately. A little bit in England for the suspenders, with Albert Hudson who still has a nice English house. And that's about it. The rest is in Italy. Yes, but for questions of know-how. Yes, of course. So, you have to work with people who have the know-how that we require. Exactly. OK, thank you very much, Frédéric, for your visit. I think we have maximized the time, as we say today Once again, Awards, you know, we are friends. I have always supported this house for almost 10 years now because I know Frédéric does a remarkable job. I have no action at his place. I put you at ease right away. I am not paid for the commission on the sale of ties. Without that, I'm kidding. I would have made a lot of money. No, I'm kidding. It's just that I cherish him. So, it's just because here you are in the type of person we love and support, lovers of the sartorial thing, enthusiasts who, beyond selling you a product, are looking for something different. And even, we could say that, well, it's true that on a very small shop like this, it's still better than if you bought it. You don't have to do tourism to go see Frédéric Costa, but I'm sure he wouldn't knock on your door if you wanted to know more about ties and shirts and take a picture with him because this gentleman is becoming very famous. I give you an appointment. So, thank you, Frédéric, for your visit. Thank you. Thank you for welcoming me. And thank you for this very nice shirt. I am very proud to be one of the first to wear it. You are the first. So, I don't know when this show will be broadcast, but as soon as it's recorded, I'm sure I'll be the first. I give you an appointment for the next issue of our sartorial discussion. Take care. I hope things will get better in Paris. I imagine that when this show is broadcast, things will get better. Dress up, be chic, be beautiful, be nice, be elegant, be graceful. Take care of yourself, take care of your family and take care of others, especially. See you soon, my friends. Goodbye. © transcript Emily Beynon