Remote Viewing Time Travel with Lori Williams

Hello and welcome. I'm Jeffrey Mishlove. Today we'll be exploring time travel through remote viewing. My guest is Lori Williams, who is the founder and president of Intuitive Specialists. Lori is one of the world's foremost trainers of remote viewing. She is the author of Boundless, your how-to guide for practical remote viewing, as well as Monitoring, a practical guide for remote viewing and professional intuitive teams. Welcome, Lori. Thank you so much for having me, Jeff. I always love coming and doing these interviews with you. It's a pleasure to be with you. When I think of time travel, most people think of it like the old Orson Welles story, like physically going to another point in the past or the future. But remote viewers routinely go both retro-cognitively and pre-cognitively into different time periods, and I'm often puzzled about how do you keep it straight? The thing about time travel is it's much easier to travel to the past through a remote viewing session than to the future. My friend Mel Riley said, yeah, I was part of a project in which we were consistently remote viewing the future, but the darn thing wouldn't stand still. So one of the things about the future is that the future is not always set. And if you think about string theory, for example, if reality allows us to have choices into the future, every time we make a new choice, we could figuratively be stepping on a new path that takes us off into a new parallel reality. But with time travel into the past, the past has occurred, and we find that remote viewers, especially when they're doing practice targets, let's say that I am giving you a target that is a photograph from National Geographic that I've pasted onto paper and stuck in an envelope for you. Effectively, you're time traveling if you are viewing that target because that target photo could have been taken in 1965, especially if you're like me and you collect old National Geographic magazines. So that photo, if it was taken in 1965, effectively you are viewing the past. I had a student who was taking a one-on-one remote viewing class with me. And on the third day of class, her target was a photograph of a young Jane Goodall. And for those who don't know who Jane Goodall is, Jane Goodall worked with primates and especially chimpanzees and apes. And Jane was squatting, a very young, slender Jane with brown hair about shoulder length wearing shorts and a shirt. And she was in front of a tent that was, it wasn't really a full tent, it was more like a roof with on poles. And inside was a picnic table with equipment on it. And Jane was kneeling in front of this chimpanzee and she was holding the chimpanzee's finger with one hand and offering the chimpanzee something to eat with the other hand. So this remote viewer on her third day of class is describing Jane Goodall perfectly, her hair color, the length of her hair, what she's wearing. And then she says that she's holding something black and rubbery and cylindrical, which was the finger, and she's offering something to eat. And then she says, and there's a house behind her. And I said, well, move to that which you perceive as a house and describe it to me. So then she's in the tent and she says, oh, it's odd, the house has no walls. Then she said, and I'm looking at a pattern, I think it might be linoleum. And she starts drawing the pattern she sees on what she perceives to be linoleum. So once we finish the session and she's all done and I'm showing her the photograph, I'm thinking she's going to be so happy that she did so well in describing Jane and the monkey. Instead, she says, oh, oh my gosh, I drew the pattern that's on the tablecloth on those picnic tables. And I said, well, you did, you drew it exactly. The pattern on the tablecloth on the picnic tables she had drawn to perfection. And then she says, oh my gosh, that means I was in that tent. I was actually in the tent looking at that pattern. And I said, well, I don't want to freak you out, but you were not only in the tent looking at the pattern, but you were in the tent 50 years ago. And then she was really wide-eyed because she realized that she had time traveled. So it really is like going back in time. It really is. I had my first experience of time travel when Lynn would send me targets. We're talking about Lynn Buchanan. Yes, Lynn Buchanan. Who trained you? He trained me and was my mentor. And he was a trainer for the U.S. military unit prior to it becoming declassified. Yeah. And he's still active as a trainer. He still is active as a trainer. He's making some great video courses right now. So Lynn had given me a target and he told me later, he said, I kind of wondered about giving you this target because I was afraid maybe it would be boring for you. And what it was, was it was a photograph of Bandelier National Monument here in New Mexico that was the home of the ancient Anastasi Indians. And they lived in cliff dwellings there. And the photograph was just a park ranger leading a group of tourists by a rock wall. And that's all the photograph was. So we train our students not to go to the photograph in the envelope, but to actually go to the site mentally. So I was viewing it. I described the rock wall and the park ranger and the tourists. But I was worried about quitting too soon, even though I didn't know what I was viewing. I thought, well, I don't want to quit too soon because if I rescue myself prematurely, then I'm going to be missing something good at this target. So I kept viewing. And the next thing I saw were these practically naked brown people with pitch black hair, straight black hair, cooking over fires and building structures. And there were all these concepts coming in about famine and drought and persecution and things. And I realized that they had had to move. Well, when I saw what the photograph was, which was pretty much Bandelier National Monument in present day, and then realized that I had slipped through time when I continued viewing and was actually viewing the Anastasi, I was so excited. I called Lin and just, oh my gosh, I time traveled, I time traveled. And he laughed and said, I wondered if I should even give you that target because I thought it was too boring. Well, you know, since you mentioned the Anastasi, to my understanding, it's a real mystery as to what ever happened to them. Today, there are no Anastasi left. That's true. That's true. And my understanding from that very basic target, I was a new student at the time when this happened, was I just understood that they were vanquished from drought, persecution and famine, at least in Bandelier National Monument. Now, I have to mention, recently read a hypothesis, some writer speculates that there were cannibals who came up from South America. And we know that the Kachina cult, which is, you know, fascinating, beautiful Kachina dolls, but the cult was brought up by cannibals. That's known. So, one writer has suggested the Anastasi were eaten. Oh boy. Well, thankfully, I didn't see that when I removed you. Okay. But what you're getting at, though, is that there are any number of historical mysteries that remote viewers could potentially shed some light on. Yes. I have a student who writes historical fiction. And she took remote viewing classes first from Lynn Buchanan, and she then did some mentoring with me because she uses remote viewing to get lots of detail for her historical fiction novels. And she definitely looks at, you know, here's a gap in my understanding, maybe I could go remote view it and fill that gap. So, of course, it's a great tool for a lot of authors. I have a number of authors among my students, because CRV is such a great creative tool for finding out information that you can't get any other way. And especially if you're writing fiction, you don't have to worry about how accurate you were. If you come up with a good hypothesis, if it's partially correct, it could be very useful for a fiction writer. That is so true. Yes. But if you're a historian, I would imagine you would want to find some kind of confirmation, not rely exclusively on remote viewing. Right. In fact, in my experience, when we're talking about practical uses of CRV, I think that CRV is a great supplement to other forms of information gathering. The U.S. military used it as a supplement to intelligence. It was never the end all and be all of their intelligence. And when it comes to doing what we consider esoteric targets, targets that don't have provable feedback, then we want to be sure that the viewer who's viewing has a really good, solid track record, well-established, and provable targets. So, one of the things I love about the CRV structure. Now, just for benefit of our viewers, CRV is the particular style of remote viewing that you teach and that Lynn Buchanan teaches. It stands for controlled remote viewing. That is correct. And it's based on a written set of protocols that's designed to help you separate imagination from true psychic perceptions. Because that's the bane of every psychic is, well, how do I know that this isn't just my imagination? How do I know this is real information? So, this written structured set of protocols helps you kind of set these things aside and organize them onto a paper. So, with the controlled remote viewing method, you have this great structure to depend on, and it can allow you to break up your perceptions that you get into categories. Colors, textures, temperatures, smells, sounds, tastes, shapes, sizes, patterns, positions, and even conceptual information, like educational, touristy, fun. Those are non-tangible perceptions that we can get about a target. So, if you can get all this information and then score your sessions, over time, after you've done 100 sessions and you've scored how well did I do in colors, how well did I do in textures, and those things, then you have a track record on provable targets. And so, once you have a track record, let's say that you were my student, and you now have an 88% accuracy rate in colors, and you want to view the planet Zircon in the galaxy of Marconis. And you say, well, Lori, when I saw the planet, it was purple. Well, you have an 88% accuracy rate in colors, so I could say, well, I could put 88% of my belief in the fact that this planet is purple because Jeff told me. A confidence factor. A confidence factor, exactly. Exactly. Well, that's very interesting because I can just imagine a hundred historical mysteries, not to mention questions that one might want to ask about the future. But, it's interesting to me, Lori, that from what you're saying is that looking in the past would be a lot easier because the past is set. Ed May, who I'm sure you know, who's done a lot of research on remote viewing, is of the belief that precognition, that all remote viewing is really precognitive. That's really interesting. I don't know that I could speak to that specifically, but I do know from teaching nearly a thousand students now, and doing hundreds of my own remote viewing sessions, that viewing the past can be provable. The past has happened, so you can view something in the past and have proof to back it up. Whereas viewing the future, the thing that seems to be the most, the biggest foil to viewing the future, is that when remote viewers view the future, they could say, for example, I believe it was 1988 or 1985, Lin Buchanan was assigned in the military to view a future event, what will be the biggest headline in next week's newspaper, for example, and he viewed the planes crashing into the Twin Towers on September 11th. So, of course, back then, that hadn't happened, and it didn't happen that following week, so they said, well, sorry, Lin, you missed the target. He drew the Twin Towers, he drew the planes crashing into them, and then there was no proof that it was going to happen. And what was the specific question again? I believe it was, what will be the biggest headline in next week's newspaper? Okay. Something like that. And so, they frequently gave these targets, they called them, gosh, I don't remember what they called them now, but it was sort of like a free flight, just go see what's going to be the biggest thing next week. But the problem is, time is really a man-made construct, if you think about it. It's very fluid, time is very fluid, and we don't even really think that it's linear. Now we think that time is happening all at once, which would account for Ed May's hypothesis, that everything is precognitive, because if time is all happening at once, even viewing the past could be viewing the future. Now we've got listeners who are going, wait a minute, what? I know, it gets mind-boggling when you begin to think about it. It does. And so, but, you know, some people say, well, time is like a river, and so if the river is winding back and forth, and you come around a curve in the river, and you see a village of people, and they're cooking over campfires, and having a great time, and you come around the corner, you no longer can see the village, but yet, you know it's still there. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there anymore. And so now you're traveling along the river of time, and the village is now in your past. But for them, it's present, and it's still happening. And there have been documented cases of amazing time slips. My ex-mother-in-law told me that when she was a little girl, she's a Hawaiian woman, her name was Kapika Oahinui, and she was living in the Hawaiian homestead in her house, and she was a little girl, and she ran to go into the bedroom, and when she opened the door, the room was completely different. And there was an old bed with an old man in the bed, and there was an old woman in a chair next to the bed reading to him. And of course, she was scared to death. She went running out of the room and grabbed her mother and said, something just happened. I went into the bedroom, and you know, I saw this old man and this old lady. And so her mother walked to the bedroom and opened the door, and everything was normal. And she said, I promise, mommy, that was what I saw. And then her mother went and got an old photo album, and she started showing her pictures in the photo album, and then she saw the old man and the old lady, and they were her grandparents or something. But what was that? That was not ghosts. That was a time slip, you know. So she was seeing a different time, and there are many documented stories about people having this happen, where they suddenly are in a different time, and they don't know how they got there, and then they slip back into normal time. So if it can happen in just our daily lives, not that it happens to a lot of people all the time, but there are plenty of testimonials out there where it has happened, then why would we not be able to travel with our minds? Because our minds are limitless and can go anywhere. Yeah, my friend PMH Atwater, or Phyllis Atwater, wrote a book called Future Memory, in which she had experiences where very detailed memories of future events just sort of got downloaded. That has happened to me twice. Jim and I were on a trip to Santa Fe many years ago. We were just taking off for the weekend, and we went with our tents, and we camped in the Santa Fe National Forest Friday night. The next day, we went into Santa Fe, and they were having the festival of what was that, Jim? I can't remember. Anyway, they were having a big festival in Santa Fe, and we went there, and we were driving, and all the hotels were booked, and they were triply expensive. We were very tired because we'd been climbing cliff dwellings all day, and we were looking for a hotel, and we went driving down the street. I think I was spaced out because I was so exhausted, and I was just watching the businesses go by. Then all of a sudden, I said, Hey, Jim, remember when we passed by this building, the mattress company, and then there's the herb company, because I was pointing out the herbs to you. Remember when we got down a few blocks, and there was this pink hotel. It was like $65. Jim said, Lori, we weren't here yesterday. We were camping in the forest. I said, No, I have this very clear memory. He said, Well, let's go down a few blocks and see if there's a pink hotel. Sure enough, we went a few blocks, and there was a pink hotel, and it was $65, and we got a room. As soon as I got in the room, I called Lin Buchanan and said, What is going on? Why am I remembering the future? He laughed, and he said, Well, memory works both ways. You can remember the past, and you can remember the future. I had that happen to me on two different occasions where I was remembering the future, and it was freaky. Well, of course, this is spontaneous, and I suppose there's no reason why the kinds of experiences that occur in the very structured environment of controlled remote viewing might not occasionally occur spontaneously, not just to remote viewers, but to anybody. Yes. I think people do have moments of precognition frequently that just spontaneously happen where, Don't get on the airplane. It's going to crash, or you suddenly think about somebody, and they call the next day. Those are moments of precognition. As a little girl, I used to have precognitive dreams that were frightening because I would, in fact, I still have them, some occasionally, a dream that, and some of them are just funny dreams. They're not like something really important that I need to be warned about. Some of them are so random, dreaming about a lady at work whose dog has to have surgery, and she's very worried, or things like that. So precognition is definitely coming through the channel of the subconscious mind, and we find that in remote viewing. One fascinating thing is called temporal attractors. So an attractor is something at the target site that gets your attention. Yeah. So if you love sparkly things, and there's something sparkly at the target, you might just end up just... Well, like Lynn Buchanan being drawn to the 9-11 event. Exactly. 15 years or 16 years ahead of time because it served as an attractor. Exactly. So if I were to give you a photograph in an envelope of the Pearl Harbor Monument as it is today, I just got back from Hawaii, I'm going to give you this photo, and you were to try to view it as a new viewer, you would probably view the bombing of Pearl Harbor, because across the horizon of time, the bombing is much more, really gets your attention and draws you to it. And so yes, I mean, anything that causes entropy, where we have loud sounds, strong emotions, bright flashes, for example, are going to just attract the subconscious across the pool of time. But that will likely be different for each person depending on their personality makeup. And what attracts that person. Yes, very, very true. And we also find that when we can do something very exuberant, for example, they say that you can improve your outcomes of remote viewing if at the moment of feedback, you get very excited. You can kind of increase your ability to view the future and send that information back through time creating what we call a time loop. So the first time I was introduced to time loops, I was so flabbergasted, because back then, back in the olden days, there weren't a lot of books out about time travel or time loops or remote viewing even, because this was back in 1996. The program had just been declassified an year earlier. And there wasn't a lot you could read about it. And I was coming from a missionary background where I just didn't even think about those things. I didn't think about time travel or, you know, UFOs or any of those things. I just wanted to think about Jesus. So that's not bad. No, it's not bad. I think that that whole spiritual experience really prepared me for what's happening in my life now. So when I first was introduced to time loops, I was attending my very first day of basic class with Lynn Buchanan in San Antonio, Texas. And there were a number of people in the class. And Lynn said, Okay, who wants to take a guess at what's in this envelope. And this man raised his hand. And he said, I think there are flowers and trees and mountains and, you know, blue sky. And Lynn said, Okay, open the envelope. And the guy opens the envelope and pulls out a picture which had been glued onto a piece of paper from a magazine. And it was a photograph of the inside of a factory. It was, it was just machinery, right? 100% man made. Right. And so I don't remember what point Lynn was making. But he just went on and started teaching. And he was writing on the whiteboard. And then he turned around and he looked at this man and the man was holding this piece of paper up to the light. And then said, What are you doing? And the guy said, Well, I'm trying to see what's glued on the other side of the picture, you know, that's on the glued side of the paper. And Lynn said, What's there? And the guy said, mountains and trees and flowers and blue sky, everything I said. And Lynn said, Well, you just ruined your session, buddy. And everybody went, Well, wait a minute. What? How could he ruin his session? His session happened 20 minutes ago. How did he ruin that? And Lynn said, Well, let me show you. Let me give you an example. So on the whiteboard, he puts an X. And he says, This is the moment where the guy made his guess and guess the mountains and the trees and the flowers. And then if you move through time linearly, here's the moment in which he was shown the factory feedback. And then 20 minutes later, here's the moment where he cheated and he looked at it, you know, holding it up to the light. So what happened was he essentially gave himself two pieces of feedback, because he looked at both sides of the paper. So that's two different feedbacks. So his subconscious mind could effectively move forward in time to the one that liked the best and feed that information back. And it all happens in a split second. So he instantly guessed the flowers and the trees instead of the factory. So the time loop is the idea that we can affect our own past. That is right. Yeah, we can totally affect our past. And you can read about this in Lynn's book, The Seventh Sense, where he did a fascinating experience. Excuse me. He did a fascinating experiment where he literally spent about a year keeping track of his decisions and was only right about 50% of the time making good decisions. And then he decided he would track for two years if he just made an appointment with himself. Okay, so we're getting very heady here. But this is some practical stuff that your viewers can actually use. So if you want to affect your past, what you could do is you could literally, let's say that I want to buy a car, and I'm at the car dealership. And I'm sitting in the car dealership trying to decide between a sporty red two seater, that's really jazzy chick magnet car, although, if I'm going to get it, it's not gonna be a chick magnet. And this is Lynn's example, because he called it a chick magnet car, or trying to get maybe a blue Jeep that can have four wheel drive and can go up in the mountains. And Lynn loves to go rock hunting. So the idea is that you would know hindsight's 2020, right? So you would know a year from now, whether or not you made a good choice. What if you sat down a year from now, and you did a session of yourself sitting in the dealership, trying to make the choice. And you just communicated with yourself about which choice to make. And you really tried to influence yourself. Meanwhile, while you're sitting in the dealership, you do a session and you target yourself a year from now, targeting yourself a year back in the past, you're in the past, keeping that loop going. So now I'm sitting in the dealership, and I'm targeting myself a year in the future, you're in the future. And I'm saying, Hey, Lori, what should I do? And meanwhile, Lori, a year from now in the future is targeting me sitting at the dealership. So there's a link there, we're communicating with each other. And I can then get a feeling for which choice is the best, based on what I'm picking up. Yes, it's a fascinating concept. I might mention, Lori, that there is a book called Time Loops by Eric Wargo, an anthropologist. I've interviewed him on that very subject a couple of times. For the benefit of our viewers, I'll put some links in the upper right hand corner of the screen if they'd like to. Oh, that's great. I would love to read that. Eric Wargo's take on time loops. It's really quite fascinating. He, amongst other things, focuses in on natural disasters, and time loops associated like with the sinking of the Titanic. Oh, wow. And another, you know, a whole novel was written about the sinking of a large ship. I think it was called the Titan. Yes, yes. I remember that. I did read something about that. And there are definitely time loops that happen naturally. And then we can use time loops to our benefit. There is a course that I teach, and Lynn Buchanan teaches, called Associative Remote Viewing, the Controlled Use of Time Loops. And we use time loops to our advantage so that we can actually predict short-term outcomes on binary choices, essentially. Now, you mentioned earlier your experience as a missionary and how you were focused on Jesus. And I have certainly heard remote viewers say, I'd love to go back to the time of Jesus and understand what was really going on back there. I bet the thought has occurred to you. Yes, it has. And especially because there are viewers who have viewed Jesus and have really had extraordinary experiences. I wouldn't task myself with Jesus, excuse me, mainly because I wouldn't want to task myself with Jesus because I don't know that I would trust what I would get, because how much of it would be a fantasy that I was creating since I knew that I was going to be viewing Jesus, so to speak. The way to do it, ideally, is to be blind. Right, to be blind to the target and have someone task you with it unexpectedly. And then you would have this probably fascinating experience. And I've been tasked, for example, with the dark side of the moon three times over 20 years, and each time I saw the same thing, even though I was completely blind to the target. So, the idea of being blind to the target is very helpful when it comes to things that you really would love to see, and you have ideas about anyway. It's very important then to be blind to the target. But you might task other people. That is true. I have a number of students who have reached very professional levels in their viewing, started studying with me, for example, in 2012 and are still studying with me to this day. We have a mentoring club that we meet in the evenings once a month, and they have a task assignment. And so these people, I know their viewing abilities, and they are really good, and they now work professionally as remote viewers. And I find that it's fascinating to me how they are able to look at a target and get amazing information. Amazing. That just is quite extraordinary. One viewer viewed a target that I had viewed and Mel Riley had viewed, and we both had the same exact experience, Mel and I, when we viewed the target. I didn't know he was a viewer on it. He didn't know I was a viewer. Later, when we compared notes, it was like we had the exact same experience in viewing this target. And it was Mars. It was a target on Mars, and there were these obelisks on the target at the site. And I didn't feel that I was viewing in present time. I thought I was viewing maybe millions of years in the past. But these giant obelisks and the tips of the obelisks at the top were transmitting information, and they were also receiving information. So my monitor said, move to the source that is transmitting to the obelisks and describe. And suddenly, I was encountering these beings that were not of this dimension. They were definitely other dimensional beings, and they were exuding love, and they were an amazing turquoise color, and they were kind of amorphous. Well, in comparing notes, Mel had the exact same experience. So I thought it would be interesting to task some very professional-level viewers with the same target. And all of them had the same experience, encountering these blue beings that were just emitting this message of love and concern for the planet. So five viewers experienced it. But one viewer in particular, who's extremely good, I asked her to go to the source of when the obelisks began, before they were built, and to tell me how they were constructed. And she said, they grew like crystals. You can grow them. And that was not an answer I was expecting at all. So afterwards, we joked, and we were like, you can't make this stuff up. But the question, I suppose, someone with an empirical attitude towards it would say, what do you make of all of that? We haven't yet any way to verify it. That's true. We don't have any way to verify it. It's just interesting that seven viewers in total, all of a professional level, all encountered the obelisks, all had the same experience with these blue amorphous looking beings. So it's like, no, we cannot prove it. Although I have since seen a couple of articles about obelisks on Mars. I don't know that nowadays, you don't know what you're seeing, if what you're seeing is real. You can read all kinds of crazy stuff on the internet. But I have seen several articles in which obelisks on Mars were a thing. I see. Maybe it will turn out that it will be confirmed. You never know. But I would think there's also a risk of sort of a telepathic overlay. I know a study was done years ago with Alan Vaughan, who was a great remote viewer and a great psychic and precognitive. And he taught a class. I was in his class back in the 1970s. And Gertrude Schmeidler, who was a professor of psychology at the City College of New York, did a study with Alan and his students. And she found that the students would tune into Alan, whatever he saw, they would see, even if it was wrong. It was some kind of a connection he had had with his students. And so he himself, you might say, served as the attractor. And I suppose it's at least theoretically possible in this instance that Mel Reilly, a well-known remote viewer himself, whatever he envisioned, that was the strong attractor. It could be. One of the things is that Mel told me, because I asked Mel about telepathic overlay. We discussed it a number of times. And he said that in his experience in the unit, telepathic overlay usually wasn't a problem when the viewers were not viewing in the same room together at the same time and knew that each other were viewing. So one of the things we try to do to avoid telepathic overlay is make sure that any viewer that's working on a project is not aware of who else is working on the project. And that they are also quite distant in where they're viewing and when. So these seven sessions were all done at different times, very spread out over many years. And no one knew. You know, they were all done individually with me and one viewer. But I could also act as an attractor if I'm the monitor in the session. So that could also be a cause of it. So we don't really know. And we wouldn't want to put a lot of credence into anything like that. And in the discussion of time travel, we definitely want to make sure that any viewers that are time traveling have a great track record on provable targets so that, again, we can have a level of confidence. And I know since your work stems from the work that Lynn Buchanan has done, that was something he did back in the Fort Meade unit was keeping all the statistics on the details of each viewer's track record. That's right. He was the data guy and loves data. He's a lover of data to this day. And I would love data if it were easier to track. I find that I used to be a grant writer. And one of the biggest, most onerous things of grant writing was when you created a program that you were getting grant money for. They always wanted you to track outcomes and all your making sure that you were hitting the mark and all the things that you posted as your goals. And tracking costs a fortune. Now, nowadays, one of the problems that we have in tracking data for viewers is we have viewers from all different teachers, and we don't have a centralized database, which we really need. So if there are any viewers out there that are good database builders who want to create a centralized database, we need a really good centralized database that anybody from any school could put their data into. And that would be so useful in tracking how consciousness works. Well, you know, as I look at the history of remote viewing, which is another way to time travel, it started, as I recall, you know, the current wave back in the 1970s with Ingo Swann and the teams at SRI and at Fort Meade and 20 years of funding from the government, largely through military intelligence. And then that ended. And then you began to see sort of like a little cottage industry of different organizations setting up training courses and the Remote Viewing Association was funded. And your work is an example now of a, I have to call it a very successful cottage industry. And what has yet to really transpire, I suppose, the next stage would be kind of industrial level. Yes. You know, we've talked a lot about how fascinating it would be to have a full blown corporation that, and corporations now become like a four letter word because we have so much bad stuff happening with corporations. But I mean, a corporation or a company in which everyone is cross trained, because it's not really healthy to remote view every day, all day long. You know, that's not a good thing for your brain, I don't believe. I think it's fine to do a session a day, or three sessions a week, that's not going to hurt you. But if you were viewing eight hours a day as a full time job, I don't think that would be healthy. And so what I thought of was, I actually have a whole business plan for creating a corporation in which you have people that are cross trained to view, to monitor, to answer the phone, to clean the toilets, to cook the meals, seriously, you know, to do some gardening, because that's the stuff that grounds you in between sessions. You know, there's nothing like cleaning a toilet to ground you. Or putting your hands on the earth and working with flowers and things. But I thought how it would be so fun if people could really rely on a stable source of income, and have a corporation that where everyone was funded, and then we could take on really worthy projects. And I know you and I are going to be talking at some point about project management and operations and doing remote viewing professionally. But I think that when it comes to time travel, I think the important thing to know is you have to have a good track record that you can base, so you're not fantasizing or fooling yourself. And then also, one of the things we haven't mentioned yet in time travel, is the problem with timing. So Lynn Buchanan saw 9-11, and it didn't happen for many years later. And so one of the things we've developed are we've developed some tools to help us pinpoint time. And I've been fortunate enough on a number of occasions to actually accurately pinpoint times in the future. But I found though, just from watching all the viewers who've tried to make predictions on different things, that time is slippery. And it's really easy to say this is going to happen next October. And then instead it happens maybe October five years from now. Or it doesn't even happen in October, it happens in May. So I did a session in which I am firmly convinced that I viewed Hurricane Sandy. But I was off by six months on predicting when it would happen. So you know, it's just that time thing is very slippery. Some very respected remote viewers did a project in which I believe the project manager's goal was to predict when the volcano in the Canary Islands might slide into the sea and cause tidal waves and that sort of things. And one of the problems with predicting something like that, number one, we have scientists who've been saying for 20 years that this volcano is going to slide into the ocean at some point, and it's going to cause tidal waves. So we know that we have science backing up that this is an event that is probably going to happen. So the goal of the project manager was let's get a bunch of professional remote viewers together and see if they can predict when it will happen. But the problem you have is you have overlay in the person who's reading the data from the viewers. If that person firmly believes something, then all the viewer's data will be skewed by that person's belief. Because this is the person whose job it is to report the data. So if they read it and they go, oh my gosh, to me, that sounds like they're saying blah, blah, blah. Oh, to me, this sounds like this person's saying x, y, z. You get this interpreting going on. And I've seen this in a number of projects that I've seen from not just one person, but from a number of highly respected people who've run projects. And the projects are actually tainted because of the project manager's belief about something. And so I'm very careful who I accept projects from for that reason. You really need a triple blind situation. You do. And I've seen some really good viewers who, when I talk to them, I say, did you actually say x, y, z? I mean, was that your prediction? And they go, no, that's not what I got at all. I mean, if I were interpreting my information, I don't know how this person came up with that because that's not what I felt I was getting. And that kind of is like, oh, no. So what happened was something went out and said this could happen in March or April, which was at that time it came out, I think it was January. So this prediction was in four months this could happen. And a number of people sold their homes because of the prediction. They literally rushed back and sold their houses because their houses were in an area that was predicted to be hit by the tidal wave. And I told them, I said, do not go sell your house. Don't go do it. You don't need to do that. And they were like, no, it's going to happen in March or April. I said, if you knew how undependable these types of predictions are, you wouldn't be rushing to do it. And when you're talking about disasters, people get very emotional and that emotion can cloud things. I know Edgar Cayce at one time, who has a good track record in many areas, predicted California was going to fall into the ocean. And when I moved to California in 1969, I knew people who had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on rescue equipment for anticipating that event because they thought it was imminent. Yes, I remember when that was imminent too. I guess we're dating ourselves. But I do remember when that was imminent. And they were like, oh, yes, Edgar Cayce said it's going to happen. And I was afraid to live in California because of that. I remember as a young, I was pretty young at the time. I think I was maybe 12. But I remember thinking, don't go to California. My mother's from California. And I was like, no, I don't want to go to California. So I think the message is, yeah, the remote viewing does work. Precognition and retrocognition do work, but we still have a lot of work to do. We do. We have a lot of work to do. And the body is a link. You and I have talked about that before. The body is a link. So you can use certain techniques to let your body responses kind of tell you. Like you could draw a timeline and say, OK, from now till a year from now, when will this event occur now from a year to now? You could just use a pendulum to yes or no. So you need to know how to work a pendulum and how to get a dependable yes or no track record. But let's say you're really good with your pendulum and you have a good track record of accurate yeses and nos. You could create a timeline and say, from now till 10 years from now, will this event occur? Is the answer on this timeline yes or no? If it says yes, well, then you could shorten it and say, OK, how about if I make it a year from now till five years from now? Is the answer on this timeline yes or no? And let's say it says yes. Then you could shorten it from now to a year from now. Is the event going to happen on this timeline? Yes or no? And if you get a yes, then what you can do is you can literally douse the timeline. You could make monthly divisions and douse the timeline to see when it's going to occur. And I've done that with very accurate results. I've also done it with very inaccurate results. So that's the thing is you don't know, is this one of my times where I'm really going to be accurate or is this where I'm going to suck? Well, you can never erase the human element. That's right. You know, at the end of the day, we are primates. That's true. That's really true. And if you have a strong opinion about something, you will definitely influence the movement of a pendulum. So I find that pendulums work well with me on certain things and terrible on other things. And for example, maps. I'm no good with a map and a pendulum because I just automatically have an idea of where I think the target is on the map and I'll influence the swing of the pendulum. But I find that I do better with things like hotspots. Have you ever heard of the hotspot method? No. So with the hotspot method, if you're trying to find something on a timeline or a map, you can just basically say you can make up a story in your mind like there is a huge bonfire burning at the target. And when I pass my hand over this map, I'm going to feel a hotspot. So you pass your hand over and you go, I feel it right here. And the funny thing is when we're talking about senses, like the sense of hearing or smell or taste, those are basic senses. Some people have a great strength in one area and not so great in others, right? I find that one of my strengths is sound. Excuse me. So Lynn Buchanan here, he handed me a map and he said, listen for the sound of the baby crying and mark that spot on the map. So I just passed, I mean, literally like it took less than a second. I just went, oh, and I just, it's kind of like a quick memory of a sound rather than a, it's not like I hear a baby screaming in my ear, but I just went and I marked it and it was exactly that spot, which the target was a church, a Greek Orthodox church. And the priest was dipping the baby in the water and the baby was screaming. He was baptizing the baby. And I put my mark right on the church and it was a map that had all the names and things taken off of it. So. It seems as if what you're saying is you need to have just the right balance of lots of structure but also room to be spontaneous. Exactly. Because if the biggest thing I teach the students is don't second guess yourself. The faster you do it, the more subconscious it is. So even though there's a structure to it, you do want to move very, very quickly. And you're just looking for those little wisps and little impressions that are coming through so quickly, you know, that are just barely tangible, like the aperture of a camera that's so quick. Well, Laurie Williams, what a delightful discussion. I know we could talk forever about time. But you've given our viewers a lot to think about. So, thank you so much for being with me. And I'm delighted that you were able to make the short trip to Albuquerque. And we'll be doing a few more while you're here. Thank you so much for having me. My pleasure. And thank you for being with us.