She Called Out White Guys Who Move To Asia...

A Chinese-American woman has just written an open letter to white ex-pat men in China and it's going viral right now. Yeah, we're gonna talk about it today. Joining us is comedian Alvin Kwai. Hello, everybody. Happy to be here. Yo, hit that like button if you guys missed Alvin. Long story short, there's a website called Open Letters to People or Entities Who Are Unlikely to Respond. Kristen Moy, she is a third-generation Cantonese-American. Here she is. She wrote an open letter to white ex-pat men that I met while living in China. Long story short, she went in, right? It kind of turned into a rant. She's talking about how they judge her Mandarin because they got better Mandarin than her. They think they can make generalizations about the people and the culture. And they always date women who, you know, like local women and use them as like free tutors. So basically, this went really viral in a lot of online communities because especially, obviously, amongst ABCs or white people who had lived in China where she's directly addressing them, right? Yeah, and obviously, like, we've traveled to China. Alvin, I believe you visited China before. So maybe we've come in contact with some of these people. But maybe our experiences have been different because, I don't know, we're dudes. But I want to say that a lot of people are discussing both some white guys and a lot of Chinese-American ABCs are also responding. And a lot of people are like, what is she ultimately mad about? Is she mad about that, I guess, white people won the last 300 years of history? But she needs, I don't know, what is going on in this article? You heard it here first, white people won the last 300 years. Everyone else has just been losing. Dude, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I will say she does have some good points. You know, like it is crazy for a white person to explain what it means to be Asian to like a person who's lived it. You know, just because you can speak the language and you know historical facts and the culture, that doesn't mean you know what it feels like to be an Asian person. Yeah, that's a good point. And I think this goes along with any race, like going off to your point, like there are people who have studied your culture more than you. That's true. And you can study things. But at the end of the day, you don't like know those things personally. So it just really kind of matters your tone and how you come across. And that can really bother people. But before we continue, guys, I do want to give a shout out to our hot sauce, Smala. You can get it SmalaSauce.com, made with real truffle, Sichuan peppercorns. It is also kind of from China and also kind of not from China as well. So make sure you like, subscribe, turn on your notifications. And real quick, I guess I want to say that it's a really interesting website concept, right? Like the whole concept is you write a letter to a group of people that cannot respond or is unlikely to respond. It's incredible, dude. If you're getting in an argument with your significant other, use the website. They can't respond. Yeah, right. Write an article on this website. I mean, I think that to your point, she is pointing a lot of real dynamics because I do think that a lot of white guys that move to China, and there is a pretty significant amount over there speaking Mandarin, right? Some do, some don't. But I would say maybe like at least in mainland China, 7 out of 10 do to some level. I mean, I would imagine you're either moving for additional attention from women, which is almost like being a passport bro, feeling special. Because sometimes when you go out and you're a foreigner phenotypically, whether you're white or black, it's almost like you look like a superstar. Right, right, right. In China, people are going to stop and take photos with you, especially if you're in a second-tier or third-tier city where they're less exposed. And you might just be looking for adventure, right? Those would be the three reasons, in my mind, why a white guy would want to move to China and then learn Chinese. Yeah, I think one thing that people have to understand is that a lot of people in China, like the local people, they are very interested in foreigners. Not necessarily only attracted to them, but they just find them really interesting. If you listen to Kanye West or Israel Adesanya or any essentially athletic-looking black guy that's ever been to China, they're like, yo, that's crazy. They treated me like a star. They all took pictures with me. We even have a friend, Vince Chang, who's part Chinese, but he looks mostly black. And he gets seen as kind of like a... It's very attention-grabbing out there. So what I mean to say is that I think if you're a foreigner, and this applies to foreigner women too, oftentimes just showing up in China, depending on where you're at in the city, you kind of start to feel very special. And that's going to push you to learn Mandarin more because you're like, well, if I just learn this language, I get this extra attention and feel like a superstar. All right, let's do it. Dude, Chinese people love it. Just basic phrases like ni hao. They're like, what? When did you get your PhD in Chinese? It's annoying because we're all Asian. We're speaking English right now, but no one gives a crap. I can't go down to a Cracker Barrel in the South and be like, hello. And they're like, you can speak our language? This is amazing. I wish, dude. I wish I got credit for just being fluent in English. Wait, so when you step on stage, you do stand-up comedy, you don't feel that anybody is impressed at how good your English is? Are they surprised that this small immigrant boy has mastered the master's language enough to tell jokes in it and elicit laughter? First of all, don't call me small, dude. I'm huge, right? Insulting. Yeah, but I feel like I should get an applause break every time I finish a set just because it's like, you did a whole comedy set in English. Yeah, I mean, I think that we're all aware of this dynamic. There's so many videos of a white person or a black person just speaking Mandarin in like New York Chinatown. It's got like 10 million views, right? Obviously, the reverse would get 10 views on the internet. But I guess one other quick thought that I have before we get into the comment section is, can you fault white people for taking advantage of it? You know what I mean? Like, if there's this arbitrage to be had and they're this schlubby dude or whatever and they're not like super elevated or whatever and then you can feel like Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise or George Clooney when you go overseas and just say like, ni hao, wo shi mei guo ran. Would you do it? Dude, if your bump is that big, if you're getting a positive bump that big, then yeah, you should go over there and learn Mandarin. Like, that's like me if I knew that every time I spoke Spanish, whatever Spanish I know, if I knew every time I spoke Spanish, I would feel like a superstar in Mexico, you don't think I would spend more time in Mexico? Yeah, absolutely. You know what's funny is like, Chinese people and Spanish people are the same in that way where like if you know a little bit of their language, they freak out, you know? Whereas like French people, it's completely different because like you can know their language, but if you don't speak perfect French, they think you're a piece of crap. They think you're like the scum of the earth. Wait, did you even try? You're disgusting. I know, but I do say I feel... You are learning French in the trash can? Yeah, yeah. I will say though, I do feel kind of bad for this chick just because like, dude, she's probably getting fetishized in like the States, you know? And then she's like, I'm going to go back to China where like I can be treated like a normal person. And then you have the same like fetishers, creepy, like skinny, creepy white dude with glasses wearing a trench coat coming up to her saying the same stuff in China like, wow, you're very exotic looking. But in a different way, in the sense of almost like they know more than you. Whereas in America, they might use it as a conversation starter to get to know you better. Dude, he's saying it in Chinese now, like fetishizing you in Chinese. And you're just like, what is that? I can't escape it. Dang. So you're saying this girl was like, yeah, I'm going to escape the West and all this Western fetishization goes to China. You know what? I don't really like it here either. I don't like these white dudes on me. It's like even worse. Let's get into the comment section here. Somebody said, you know, for me, this was my experience. I used to feel so special when I lived in China. And then I came back home and I just lived a normal life. I was not a special person to be looked at anymore. I don't know. I'm having trouble coming back. I was telling my therapist about it the other day, but there's just something missing here. You know, New York is nice, but I miss feeling unique, that special feeling. Yeah, that's it. Special. Yeah, and like, again, if you really honestly feel special, and I think that obviously every person can empathize with this. That's why I want to empathize to an extent with guys who feel like they get this bump and they're like, wow, my life is so much better when I come over here. And that's fine. No one's telling you don't do it, but also like, you know, you don't have to do it that way. You don't have to be annoying. Okay, you're annoying sometimes, by the way. Even like Chinese guys, I mean, white guys in America that can speak Mandarin and they speak better Mandarin than me, right? They'll like just be kind of annoying with this sometimes. And I'm like, yo, like, I get it, bro. Shout out to you. You learn the language, but just calm down. Yeah, I would say to be fair, a lot of white guys who speak better Mandarin than you, they can say more sentences, but usually their tones are even going to sound worse. Like the pronunciation is not going to be as good. This guy is talking about, I hate shout, this is from ABC. I hate Xiaoma NYC. Think about how ridiculous it would be if an Asian pulled that ish. Asian man goes to Denny and shocks the white waitress with his southern accent. Would that ever happen? And this is sort of just already addressing what we talked about. Whereas like, you know, like the villager Chinese, they're going to immigrate to America. A white person in America is going to order like some baozi, some ro-tai-bao in Mandarin. And they're going to like, their jaw is going to drop to the floor. They're going to film it on a GoPro and get 14 million views. Yeah, I know. I mean, Xiaoma is also, I mean, he's a Jewish guy and I work in show business, so I'm not going to say anything bad about him. He's very talented polyglot, yeah. I think the Jews are the greatest people on the planet in everything you do. Alvin wants to go on a world tour, guys. Someone set it up for him. What I would say is this, like there's that one comedian, Henry Cho, who grew up in the South. He was a Korean guy. And I know that he has a whole joke about him not sounding how people expect because he looks Asian, but he kind of talks like, you know, I'm Henry Cho, you know. And the thing is, he does get a little credit for that, but it's not as wowing when you come from an elevated level and you can speak the language of the people of a lower level. I hate to say that, but you know, if you're a white guy going to a second tier rural city in China, of course you're going to globally rank higher, right? So of course it's more like you're stepping down to learn the culture of the common people. I always say this, how much of this stuff or this like rant, because she says she's third generation Cantonese American. Does it just break down and just like the Anglo, I guess the Anglo sphere being the most dominant culture of the past 300 years. But she's mad at it in the way that it impacted her. What, David? You're saying the Anglos won? No, I'm just saying that everybody like, it's almost like to me that Anglo culture is so dominant globally over the past like 200 years or let's just say a hundred years around the globe. And it's almost like we don't even know, is that just default now? Or is it still somebody won this to make everybody speak English? Do you see what I'm saying? Like, are we, what is our accepted threshold of like us feeling like we are a conquered people? That's why we got to learn their language. Or was this just like, no, everybody's, we're all just English speakers now. Well, I think people are just mad that it feels like it applies overseas when it should only, I guess, technically apply in America, that dynamic. Because I totally understand, like if you come to America, the English is, the language is English. So of course, learning English is by default what you're supposed to do, right? Well, it is weird too that like, you know, Asians in America are like treated as second class citizens whereas like a white dude in Asia is treated as like a gold star. Right, like a VIP. Yeah, it's like, why is this? Damn, everywhere you go, you get the VIP treatment? Like. Yeah, no, that's true. That is true. That is true that you get treated worse in America, arguably as a minority. And as a minority, if you do, I mean, I think it's different for black people in China, but if they do fit that Kobe, the Kobe athlete stereotype, then I think they can get it too. I mean, I remember the first times that I started, I was of partying age and I would go out in Hong Kong. Right, there's this area called Leng Kwai Fong, which is like a party area, but it's also a lot of foreigners. And this is where like the international and a lot of like the cooler clubs are. And it's like, I always felt like when I was there, that it was still ran by Australians, UK and Americans. Yeah. And I didn't like that. I didn't like that because I was like, hold up guys. If I want to go to a club that is ran by white people, I could have stayed in America. Sure. Versus now I'm coming to Hong Kong, which is in Asia, but of course a British colony. And now it still feels like it's being ran by white people. Well, here's the problem with a lot of expats in China or like in Hong Kong, because my brother-in-law is, he grew up in Hong Kong. Is a lot of these like white people in Asia do think they're better than Asians there, you know? And like them not learning the language is fine. Like you can have your cultural enclave, but don't have a sense of superiority over it. That's ridiculous. Right, right. That's the key. No, for sure. I mean, I knew this dude who worked at an Australian finance firm in Hong Kong. And he said that he would get picked on in Hong Kong in his finance firm. For being Asian. Yeah. I'm getting picked on for being Asian in Asia. Yeah. Like that would be the same that dude in schools, like, yeah, kids would like, if you go to international school in Hong Kong, it's like 50% white kids, like 40% like Asian kids, and then 10% like everything else. Like, yeah, you're getting bullied for being Asian. Right, right. No, it's true. It's like I can't even be safe in my mother, in like the motherland. Yeah, yeah. And like we said, I don't know how much responsibility is on the Asians to like boss up too. I don't know. It's tough to say. This is a lot of comments from white guys on the internet toward Kristen Moy. Somebody said, oh, my meek demure lotus flower. You are so cute when you get angry. Which is obviously kind of like playing into her stereotype of them. He said, but I'm just joking. A lot of people said they didn't like her tone. But even though she made some valid points, a lot of people said, oh, identity politics is a hell of a drug. Who hurt this woman? And then somebody was just asking for empathy for both sides. Empathy for Kristen Moy being this third generation Cantonese American, what she's going through. But also I guess empathy ultimately for the expats who went over there. I'm sure just living, looking for a better life for themselves. But obviously there is some context of superiority complex, whether it's overly conscious or subconscious involved. Let me put it this way. I think a lot of Chinese Americans go back to China to feel normal. While I think a lot of white dudes go back to China to feel elevated. And I think that's a completely different intention. Like we want to go there just to get like equal. I guess I guess contrast that with immigrants coming to America, which was technically, you know, prior to the last couple of decades, a white country. We a lot of immigrants come here just to survive. Right. We don't necessarily think we're going to become Scarface of like our respective domain. Right. Well, that's why people like the Scarface story. Right. Because it's like that guy was a Cuban who came and blah, blah, blah. Dude, I also think so. Well, he called it a joke and calling her a weak demure flower or whatever. But I do think it's hilarious that there's a stereotype of Asian women being submissive and timid. It's like, have you ever grown up with an Asian mom? Asian women are terrifying. I grew up with an Asian mom and Asian sister who like beat the crap out of me when I was a kid. It's like they're not. They're not. Dude, any white guy who's been married to like an Asian girl for like 30 years. She took his soul, dude. Right. That guy's dead inside, bro. They're not weak. Like they're like tigers. They're terrifying. That's true. Ultimately, guys, what do we think about this article and the Internet like comment storm that ended up sparking? Because I'm telling you, I was looking through the replies on Kristen Moy's article. We're talking about some of the replies are like pages long. Like, you know what I mean? Like, obviously, it touched on a nerve. Yeah, I mean, my general takeaway to kind of sum it all up is like do I obviously have more empathy for Chinese Americans, but I do think that if you do go over there and you don't know Chinese, you can expect to have some of these interactions. Like even if I moved over there as a Chinese American male and my Chinese is not very good, I'd have to struggle and build up my Chinese and learn it over there. And I still might encounter, I'm going to encounter a bunch of white dudes who speak better Mandarin than me. Right? And I'm just going to have to deal with it. Now, the other part that she shouldn't be dealing with is obviously the guys still looking at her with the same fetishizing eyes and kind of like stereotyping her like they get to in America, but they just feel like because they're doing it in Asia and they know the Asian language, they're like excused a bit. So I just think it's just the intention that they're going over there with. Yeah. Like I said, I mean, there's probably going to be a variance realistically. I think, like I said, everybody goes over there probably for adventure, probably to be seen as special and probably to get women. Maybe number four is like some deep Sinophile, like interesting and like Chinese and stuff like that. But I would say, you know, it's interesting that I think ABC women, especially ones that have been in America for multiple generations, we're all second generation, 1.5 generation. She's third generation. She's going to perceive it even differently than we do because she's almost going to see it like a liberal white woman being offended by these things. Whereas I feel like Asian guys were kind of just like, yes, unfortunate. But that's just what it is. I don't know. I feel like we would see it. There's some level amongst guys of acceptance of this unfortunate power dynamic. Whereas she's more like offended by it. Well, you're saying that she feels like she's equal with white guys so she can talk to them directly and be like, hey, white guys, stop doing this versus a lot of Asian guys just feel like, you know, that's just the way it is, man. And I don't even care anymore. Yeah, because you can't care because what are you going to do about it as an Asian guy? Obviously, some Asian guys do talk about it as well on the internet. Alvin, any final thoughts? Yeah, I just think like, dude, if you're white and you just grew up around white people and then like they try to talk minority, they act like they're mentally disabled. Like, have you ever seen like a white dude who's never been around black people and then talk to a black guy for the first time? It's the cringiest thing ever. They'll be like, hey, you know, whatever your name is, like, you know, you like to play basketball? I mean, not that you all like playing basketball, but I mean, no, I'm not saying you're like, it's like, dude, just be normal. You can't just be normal. So I almost like expect it. You know, you almost have to expect it like if you just mean the whitest person on the planet, even if they speak Chinese, they're going to say something that's mad stupid. Right, right, right. More than likely because is it because I guess like because the Anglosphere is so big and it's like can even reach overseas nowadays depending like we were talking about growing up in like Shanghai American school or Hong Kong American school or something like that where it's almost like they a lot of Western people are white people. They never have to break their frame for anybody, but everybody else is always breaking their frame to cater to them. Yeah, yeah. You have to know how to cross a cultural bridge. That's a skill which like I feel like if you're a majority in a country, you don't do that much. You know, it's the same thing. It's like white people in America. You know, it's also the same with like if you're Chinese in China and like you see a black person for the first time and you start touching their hair. It's like, what are you doing? Right, right, right. That's just like ignorance. It's the same type of ignorance. Also, one other thing is like I just feel like when like oftentimes I'll just focus on white dudes that learn Mandarin and learn about Chinese culture. They all like become Chinese teachers and I'm like, you're not necessarily a Chinese teacher. You don't got to teach Chinese to everybody. Even me, I don't go around every person that I talk to questioning, yo, yo, how come you don't know this about Asian culture? You don't know this about Asian American culture? Like even as an Asian person, that would be annoying. So I'm just saying it's an annoying thing to do period. So learn what you can about the culture and learn the language but you don't have to be annoying about it. Yeah, just be normal. Just be normal. Hey guys, open letter to white expat men in China just be normal by Alvin Kwai. Yes, yes. I do think that one thing that deserves more examination is my final thought is like you can be born into an identity that's very difficult to recognize to reconcile with the society around you and you can also be born into an identity that's very easy to reconcile. You know what I mean? Like for example, being white or for her, she's a third generation Cantonese American living in Beijing. I could see that being difficult. Like that doesn't sound like a perfect matchup to me right off the bat. You know, we're talking about MMA or boxing, like styles make fights. It just doesn't sound like an easy thing to reconcile identity with but anyway guys, let us know what you think in the comment section below. Check out the links to the article and these.