Asian Liberals VS Asian Conservatives...WHO WON?

Well, I want to be the best. I want to be the smartest. I want to be the toughest. Vice just put a bunch of Asians in a room to argue with each other. What did they talk about and what can we learn from it? I have not seen this video yet, but let me guess, Andrew, it's a bunch of different Asians with a bunch of different life perspectives just arguing about controversial issues. Yeah, we got some clips and some topics I want to pull from the video, David. We'll watch them together. We'll analyze it. Maybe we'll provide some of our fun, creative solutions. Who knows? But everybody, if you are excited about this video or you're interested, please hit that like button and check out other episodes of The Hot Pop Boys. Let's get into the first clip. The first clip is about assimilation. Assimilation. Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing? Is it a burden? Is it an opportunity? Assimilation, I think I would define that as in part, I think necessary to an extent, because we are forced to in order to navigate this country. So I would say learning the language, you know, learning how to like properly behave, for example. That's in part kind of assimilation, making sure that you are kosher in this society. And I think in part that means survival. I think assimilation is not just a great thing. It's a necessary thing. No society can hold together where people have nothing in common. They don't speak the same language. They don't practice the same things. And, you know, you may look at something like just food habits or what you eat and think that's fairly frivolous. But the truth of the matter is that on a broader level, we're talking about more big picture things, differences in race, culture, religion, all these things. People have fought wars, violent wars, killed each other over these things for thousands of years. If America is to hold together assimilation, not just good or bad, necessary. I don't think it's going to be possible for America to survive as a stable, functioning society if people don't, to some degree, say, well, here's what we're going to commonly agree upon. But who gets to choose it? The majority culture, I suppose. And what's majority culture? People with power. And who's people with power? People with power. White people? Well, I don't, I don't know. Yo, this is funny, man. Ben Lee Shapiro, he came through. And obviously, I would say, interestingly enough, Andrew, obviously you have like a left side and a right side represented in this debate. But it's not like they were on opposite ends. The first girl was like, yeah, I think assimilation is good. Maybe to a six or a seven out of level, out of 10 level. And the second guy came through and was like, how about a 10 out of 10 level? That's the way the system will work the best. And then, of course, the comedian girl at the end is like, white people, huh? Is that what we're going to have to all become? Judeo-Christian, Anglo, wannabe? Yeah. Is that what you're saying? I guess the issue is that a lot of white people are like, hey, man, back in like the 80s and 70s when these immigrants were coming over and there wasn't as many of them. And they were more assimilating to our culture at the time. It seemed like things worked a lot better. And now things are so diverse and people, they can't agree. Hey, it was fine to have immigrants to Jackson Heights, Queens, when everybody was still hanging out the Jackson Heights, Queens diner. But man, you go there now, the diner's out of business. And I've seen all these things I can't pronounce. I guess my question is like, I feel like I'm a Chinese-American who is assimilated pretty a lot. I mean, considering, you know, I don't really speak Chinese that well. You know, I eat American food pretty well versus an American culture. I have American friends. So I guess like, am I on the same page with other people? And how much more assimilated would I have to be? And would assimilation even solve the major issues? That's the question. And I think it's also like, is it assimilation from your perspective? Or is it assimilation from like larger society's perspective? Because let's say, for example, you were looking to triangulate yourself with a media entity, right? People would be like, the person you look the most like in global media is Park Seo Joon. So think about it. Nobody knows who that is in America. And probably highly unlikely that a large portion of America is ever going to know that. So you could look at that yourself and be like, well, if the people I look like the most in the media are in Asia, do I feel more Asian, even though the things that I do and the language that I'm the best at is more Western? And maybe that's why America needs to do something very un-American and start a federal bureau of assimilation or multiculturalism or something, some type of governing body that has some type of say and power to help smooth these things out. Are you referring to the organizations that they have in Canada, in Australia? Because they do actually have people that are in charge of these, but I don't think anybody's really happy with the cultural products or the shows or the commercials they end up sponsoring. Everything in America, Andrew, to me, it's more market driven where the changes are more like long lasting because it's the market and capitalism, but it's almost like even slower to come around. For example, in Canada and Australia, they've always had like government sponsored all Asian TV shows. Yeah. David, you want to hear another argument against all this? That America is actually doing pretty well considering how diverse it is. Because diversity is beautiful. It's amazing. I think there's amazing opportunities in America. That's why everybody wants to come here. But it is difficult. It is complicated to make everything work smoothly. Now, I guess the sense is that it's not working smoothly. So I don't know. Are there any things that could unite people? I don't know. It's very complicated. I think the devil's in the details. It's in the semantics. For example, Andrew, I think a lot of Daisy people, in a weird way, they act more Western on a day to day IRL basis. But they also may be more religious and have like, you know what I'm saying? They're almost like less assimilated religious wise than East Asians who are more Christian, right? Because a lot of Daisy people are not Christian. But then on a day to day basis, they may even present as more like being able to be fluid with whites on a conversational basis. So what is assimilation there? Well, I think that, and not to go too deep into it, but I think part of it is language. It's because a lot of Indians can speak English. And they would like to, they like to speak English. And they've actually had contact with the Western world. Yeah, obviously they were colonized by the British. So, you know, yeah, when you look at our Punjabi or Hindu friends, they tend to feel right off the bat more Westernized. But they also keep their Indian names. So I don't know. It's tough to say, guys. It's in the details, man. That's why this conversation, you know, topic was a little bit like shallow because it was just like, yeah, of course, you have to assimilate to some extent. Yeah, if you're playing Valorant, you got to do it different in Overwatch. Like those are different games with different semantics. I think some people just feel like, and I'll close out the point saying this. I think a lot of people feel like people are not even assimilating to the rules, to the same rules. They're playing Counter-Strike. I think culture is different. You don't have to eat the same food, wear the same things, whatever. But rules and language, I think those are the number one base things that people would, most people would kind of argue for. So anyway, the discussion, I just feel like it got to be way more nuanced because otherwise you're just going to be like, oh yeah, assimilation 10 out of 10. Oh no, assimilation 6 out of 10 is better. Guys, what happened to the United Colors of Benetton, man? I thought that that was like some type of future that we were all looking at, where everybody had like a different seat at the table. Everybody there was trying to be a London person. See, you didn't know, man. You know, United Colors of Benetton, everybody was trying to be a London chap. They were buying into the, you know, the royal family. Yeah, geez. All right, next clip, guys. What role do you think Asian Americans have as far as the larger injustices and racism that this country has exhibited and has pushed it forward in the 200 years prior to even our arrival? But I guess the easiest way to make it something to talk about is the concept of the model minority myth. When you hear that word, what does it mean to you? So the model minority myth, you know, after World War II, they used us to separate other people of color. They used our race to say that we were the best race, that we were the model minority because we were the smartest, we got the best jobs, we did these things, and we were able to assimilate to what their idea of what they wanted. They wanted an example to use of people of color that they could then use against all the other people of color. And what they also did is they caused infighting between our communities so that we wouldn't look at the actual problem, which was white supremacy. It's going through your head right now. Model minority myth, if I'm not wrong, I actually think that Asian Americans did create that, first and foremost, to push the notion that we are dangerous away. First to say that, like, no, we belong here because I promise you we will not cause harm to you. And that has trickled down now into becoming almost a curse. Historically, it was used first to be like, we're not dangerous, we're just, we're American, we are American. But later on, it has moved into this sort of weaponized term slash almost like idea concept where we get to say, like, oh, because we are model minority, like, we're not, like, dangerous and we're not this. And I think about this a lot with class. Like, a lot of Asian women who are sex workers, who are we actually taking into account when we think about model minority? And I think that that term really applies to a very specific amount, or that idea of what that looks like is very specific. Because when I think of the Asian Americans that I know, I don't think that they're worried about whether or not they look like model minority. I think they're just trying to survive. Being described as a model minority. For me, it's like, well, I want to be the best. I want to be the smartest. I want to be the toughest. The model minority thing, I've never thought about it because I'm too focused on trying to be a model American. All right, man, I'm going to be honest. I feel like the whole debate about the model minority term is a little overrated. Because you bring it up to someone who just got here 15 years ago and is trying to get their life on track. And then there's a third generation Asian American that's thinking about it, being like, yo, it was used to weaponize, blah, blah, blah. Right, who took 50 race studies classes. And first of all, when it comes to the history of the model minority term, I think there's a little bit of truth in everything that they said. Because I do think it started a while ago. It was coined by a white person. But then Asians kind of fit into it. Right, because clearly Asians cannot even agree because he said it started after World War II. She said it started, I don't know, at a non. She said Asians kind of pushed it. Nondescript time, but it came from within our community, which I really don't think is true. But then she said something I really agree with, where she said at the end of the day, you guys, you know, we could talk about it forever, but most Asians don't even think about these terms. They're just trying to get their life together and live their life and survive and hopefully thrive in this country. And she's super right. That's the only statement I 10 out of 10 agree with. And then I think the guy at the end, too, kind of supported that where he's just like, dude, I just like trying to kill it in life. Dude, do the best. And if they put that title on me, whether that title offends anybody or they do or don't like it, then so be it. This kind of comes back down to like Asians taking ownership of their identities. No matter what word Time Magazine uses, these headlines use, whatever the news want to use, Fox, CNN want to use on us. We just have to know ourselves and we don't have to be defined by these things. That's why it's important because the whole conference, kids, think about it. You got someone who's not thinking about this model minority political stuff at all. We have friends, we have literal good friends that are close to us that understand we think about this stuff a lot, but they don't even think about it a lot. They think about it like a one out of 10 level. I think that people who have thought about the same amount should debate. But if you get a 10 out of 10 person who's super thought about it and one person who's like two out of 10, it's not going to be a good conversation. I think realistically, man, we have to understand that there was a white black binary, sort of like, to be honest, as a preexisting race war in America when Asians arrived in large numbers post 1970. And you can fit into it or not fit into it. But I don't, I'm never going to tell somebody to feel bad about not thinking about it because they're just trying to get their life together. You do not have to be white to perpetuate white supremacy. No one's saying it's not hard to govern a heterogeneous society, but it is possible to do a lot better than the way that we're ******* doing it right now. It's like we've banked on this myth of white adjacency more than this model minority myth of like, instead of aligning ourselves with the black community who've been fighting for racial justice and liberation, right, and acknowledging our own privilege and putting our bodies on the line to fight for these movements. Instead, we banked on white adjacency and here we are still being pushed. Yeah. What is, okay, first of all, what exactly is white adjacency? Is it working hard, having families? I don't, no, no, no, no. I don't understand what the issue is. But then number two, wait, let me finish my point. Certainly. I think it is gaslighting when, again, the majority of violent attacks against Asians are not being perpetuated by white people to blame white supremacy. White supremacy as a construct. Is this idea, like that the norm of American is whiteness. Yes. That whiteness is the default. That whiteness is the standard that we all ought to aspire to. It's not just talking about KKK. Yeah. It's not talking about lynching. It's about a mentality that we have absorbed. I'm going to interrupt for a second. You, Ling. Oh, man, this kind of devolved into like one of those like Jerry Springer type daytime, like, you know, drama shows. But long story short, man, I mean, I do think that you can just peel back the layers to a lot of probably like white supremacy if you wanted to keep peeling the layers back. But at the same time, I mean, that's like peeling back the layers also if we peel back the layers further than that to the first lizard that wanted to become a mammal. You know what I mean? Like how far back are we going to go? You know, have you ever seen those memes? Like the lizard like looks at the land and is like, oh, yeah, maybe I'll become like an amphibious, like half like fish. And then now you got to go to work and wake up and drive two hours to work on for a 6 a.m. Oh, man. Yeah. I mean, I think overall. Andrew, the classic white supremacy talk. I mean, I think that obviously, guys, there's always going to be valid points on both sides and probably even another valid point coming out of left field that nobody's ever even considered. That's like radically centrist or radically different. But at the end of the day, he's just talking about like, how much do you blame anybody for something that had a domino impact, a domino effect? Yeah, for sure. No, listen, I mean, white people were in charge of this country solely like majority wise, for sure, for like pretty much most of its existence. Right. Maybe now it's a little bit more theoretically, you could blame all the bad things as well as the good things on white people, right? Because you know what I want to know? I want to see the plan and the proposal on what people are asking from white people. I think that's totally fair to ask some things from white people, whether it's reparations, these things, I think there's great arguments for it. I just want to know the proposal because I'm like, yo, it is tough to write all the wrongs because that's what the guy said. Somewhere in this video, he said, yo, it's time America needs to write the wrongs. I was like, oh, there's a lot of wrongs. How are we going to write them? I want to see the, I'm interested. I'd love to see it. Yeah, I think both people have really dug their feet in the sand because on the right side, they're like, man, I'm not saying history's perfect, but I'm trying to move forward. I'm sick of the fighting. And of course you're trying to move forward. Look at you. You're in the position of being a white man. So of course you want to move forward and forget about all this stuff. Right. And then the white guy, he has one of two reactions. Yes, I'm either an upper middle class or rich white man. So, so be it. Or I'm just a trucker. I mean, what do you mean white privilege? I got to drive these trucks to get my paycheck and work hard. Maybe, maybe it's true. When I turn on the radio in my truck, I get to turn it on to like my shows that support me. But man, let me tell you, man, I'm Theo Vaughn. So I'm just trying to live, man. That's how Theo, Theo Vaughn is like the typical, like non-privileged white guy. I will say the one thing that's true is that, and this is why the left and the right cannot agree on a lot of things is because the left is making solid points, but from an idealistic perspective. And I sometimes think the right is making points from like a, let's just get this show back on the road. Let's get this machinery back on the road. But obviously that's going to like overlook a lot of historic injustices. So they're both like, just cannot agree. Like literally I'm looking at the way their brain is processing history and their timeline of looking forward or looking backwards and like how much reconciliation needs to happen. I'm just like, dude, I don't think you guys are going to agree. We need plans. All right, this next clip is about affirmative action. Do they believe it's good, bad, a scam or something else? Plaintiffs challenging affirmative action rules. There are Asian Americans who are banding together to do that. I think affirmative action is a scam. It's an excuse to make race-based hiring decisions. And I think that that's wrong. And I think that everything should be based on merit. The students that are picked by affirmative action are top tier students. They're not like some D plus students that are getting picked just based on race. They already are performing at a very top level themselves and proven themselves to be picked. Despite systemic barriers. I think to a reasonable extent, you could say, okay, if someone grew up in like total poverty and they didn't have the same opportunities, then you can lower the standard a little bit. What I would still say is I think there has to be some proof still of capability. Right now there's a left-wing movement to remove SAT and standardized testing. So in my opinion, sure, the SAT may not be a perfect test. I think it's decent. That is what actually levels the playing field to saying we have to take the same test. It doesn't matter what your teacher, how hard they grade, you pay them off, private school education, you know, like that's the environment where it's like totally even. Sure, it's one way to measure intelligence, but that's also assuming that intelligence can only be assessed in one way. The affirmative action debate is a classic one that I actually think is gaining traction in 2022, moving into 2023. Asian-Americans, I see them super split on this issue. And I really think it just comes down to the implementation. Like, listen, any system you pick, it's just like any coach. If you run an offensive forward system, you run a defensive forward system in the NBA. There's always pros and cons. Certain players are going to get utilized more than others in certain offensive schemes. Certain players are going to get screwed even if they're good players, but they just don't fit the scheme that they're running, right? So that's the tough thing about society in 2022. Like there are going to be winners and losers. I do think that regardless of the scheme you pick, you can take some steps to mitigate the downsides of given scheme with, you know, execution and some analysis. Hey, you know, guys, I like to look at proposals and I like to hear plans. If affirmative action is in a roundabout way going to hurt some Asian students or, you know, some other people are going to take their spots, what are the other Asian students going to get? I just like to see the proposal. I'm not, you know, I think that ultimately a lot of smart people are going to have to make a hard decision. And like we said, it's not going to make everybody happy. It's going to offend someone. I do, but I'm just saying, what's the trade? I do think making it more based around socioeconomic status than just pure racial bloodlines. There could be a pretty good case for that. And it will still help marginalized disenfranchised communities a lot to get the extra help that they deserve due to historical injustice. And by the way, if you want to see a deep dive into it, we actually made a video. We also talked about what they're doing in Boston, which is like a multi-tier socioeconomic ranking map to determine which students are going to get a little bit like that extra bump. Yeah, but they'll come down to execution at the end of the day. If you guys know about projects, man, it's the execution more than the concept. Yeah, I just feel like sometimes people who like are not very educated on the issue and just read like a paragraph on it, arguing about it all day. Not helpful. All right. This is the last clip that we're going to watch. It's about the future of Asians in politics. So you just got in because of your race. What do you think the future of Asian-Americans in America and American politics is? The paradigm we are going through now, especially with our relations with different ethnic groups and everything, I think that we are headed towards balkanization and the future of America is starting to look like Bosnia. And so I want to avoid that. You know, within our generation, at least what I've seen, a lot more Asian-Americans who are interested in politics, who are interested in bringing more representation and bringing more saying like, we've had enough. You know, this is not how we need to be treated, how we deserve to be treated. So like, I think in terms of involvement, there will be a higher involvement of Asian-Americans. And also just the mere fact that we had Asian-American representation, whether it's Kamala or Andrew Yang just even running, that shows people that, hey, like maybe like, maybe that could be me. Yeah, I'm allowed. I think that one of the biggest things that representation does is it says, I'm allowed to do that because I see someone that looks like me do that. Yeah. Wow, David, to me, I think it just all comes back to assimilation. This whole conversation, this whole video, because first of all, I think everybody agrees you want to see more people like you in politics because your interests are going to get represented better, maybe not fully, but better, right? But you know what has to happen is that people have to assimilate into the political structure, the existing political structure. Just like if you want to see more Asians in C-suite in the corporate ladder, Asians got to climb that ladder because we're not bigger than the structure and we're not going to change the structure. So you need those pioneers, kind of like Andrew Yang, or if you want to say Kamala Harris, to make it there to be those representatives in some way. And then little by little, more and more will assimilate and climb the ladders and then become more powerful. And I actually think it's far more likely that Asians just continue to run the economic assimilation plan where we're contributing to capitalism, working within capitalism, offering value, obviously demanding monetary compensation for that value, whether that's labor or work or product or services or connections or brain thinking or whatever that we're adding to the pie. I think, honestly, that's more realistic. I don't really see a super strong political future because look at all the Asians here. They don't even agree. Like some people are far left. Some people are far right. Some people are moderate on either side. Some people are coming out of left field already. So it's like, what do you mean? But last question, last question. We're seeing more Asians join politics. Politics is becoming more and more diverse. So do you think, are you hopeful, are you bullish that Asian interests are going to be represented a little bit more and more with each person? Yeah, I do think so. Both whether the politicians are on the left or the right, to be honest, because they'll just be held to more of an Asian constituency and obviously have those life experiences to more relate to that group. But honestly, yeah, right now, even from this whole vice debate, and I see this a lot on Jubilee and I see this a lot on The Cut, I just see Asians who are still kind of like at least 80% parroting more like a mainstream talking point on the left or the right. I still haven't seen like a hyper unique Asian perspective yet, in my opinion. Hey, man, we need to hear more. Maybe it's here on this channel. I don't know. I don't want to put that on ourselves. Anyways, guys, thank you so much for watching. Please let us know in the comments down below what you thought about this video, what you thought about our takes. 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