A Conversation With A Former Lesbian

All right here we go. All right ladies and gentlemen welcome to another episode exclusively for locals. I want to introduce my cousin Ingrid to the to the program and there she is. Ingrid I think we could hear you. Hi. So Ingrid comes to us all the way from the grand state of Texas where a lot of my fellow Californians are are moving to and are contributing to the the systematic decay of Texas as well. Yes they are. Yeah it's uh it's pretty crazy stuff there but that was before Californians even showed up in droves that they are now. Yeah that's a story for another time. Well I brought I brought you on because I thought you're uniquely qualified to discuss this as I like to use that that term the alphabet community because at first it was just lgb then became lgbt then lgbtq plus and the proper terminology is like lgbtq plus aip something like that. Yeah. Do you want me to keep score because I'm not going to. Yeah no now it's going to go into symbols and all kinds of stuff so I'm not surprised at all that things are being added constantly and it's innovating that community's label basically. You already opened up that you used to live that lifestyle so for those of you that didn't catch on when she was saying she went to the she went to the gay pride parades she wasn't just an ally she was one of them so uh you were mentioning what uh what seemingly sounded like grooming uh but you were dealing with confusion too at a young age and uh like someone something or some groups influenced you in some way and that's where you that's what I'm getting inferring that that's how you fell into uh you went you dove into that confusion and said oh I must be that. Yeah I think it has you know sometimes there's certain things that you watch as a kid that you're not supposed to watch you know um certain shows or I remember you know our kind of our parents kind of let the tv big babysit us a little so you know I used to I remember watching um you know real world and stuff like that you know and so I remember watching all these shows of uh people having confusion and all these things and so the more they would they had you know some similarities and the things that I was uh struggling with at the time and so then you know as they were presenting it oh it's because it's the same sex attraction that's why you're you know and they didn't they weren't trying to um and I guess because it made for a good story I didn't know that you know because I was little but how old would you say you were um I want to say when I when it got the first times I remember feeling like I was attracted to uh the same sex I was but I kind of put that yeah I remember that because so what happened was I I grew up around my cousins uh you know you you're one of my cousins but out here in Texas you know how we you know we had the the boys here so I grew up around them and I would play outside I was the only girl I was already tomboyish but I remember they used to take off their shirts and run around and I wanted to do the same you know I want to be as strong as them I want you know and so you kind of start memory uh mirroring all the things that they would do and so you know the way that they would kind of look at you know the girls and stuff like that and so I wanted to do it too but I didn't want to tell them but I wanted to fit in with them and I knew that I was uh built different because of just I was a little bit bigger and just I was stronger and stuff like that so my mind I was like okay there's something different about me and so obviously in you know as Christians we see the spiritual aspect of that now I see that that that was just kind of uh uh something that was generational as far as uh an open door generational because we are not born that that is not a DNA thing that's a spiritual thing right um so you know that as I got older I want to say when I started getting you know developing you obviously know your your hormones you started kind of you know get emotional and mood swings and all these things um I remember that I started having a lot more struggles and um it got to a point where I started cutting myself because I didn't want to be attracted to the same sex I remember going into you know having just regular gym class and I had my friends around me and um I would stare at them and then I knew that there was some openly uh gay people as far as teachers that we all knew that they were you know um and but the way that they were so cool with everybody and you know so in a way kind of like what you said about Hollywood you know where they kind of portray it to where everybody does it it's cool like and then you see them being the funny one you know you see them being the outgoing the extrovert and so in a way you kind of start you know really trying to deflect the fact that there's something there that is different and so you want to just make yourself a positive um presence in the room and different and so that's really what began to happen I it shifted to where okay I know I'm there's something different I'm tired of feeling like this I'm tired of being suicidal I'm just gonna be fun to be around to kind of deflect that and um you know as far as watching the things that I watched you know it made me more curious to to know more about that life I remember watching there was this one I don't know when it was in the it was in the I want to say the 90s late 90s where it was a real world the one guy died I believe he died of AIDS I forget what his name was so I remember watching that and I remember thinking you know maybe he just should have protected himself or you know maybe you know stuff like that I remember watching this movie called Gia as well and uh it was with Angelina Jolie it was uh about the model Gia from back in like I want to say she was like in the 60s or 70s something like that I forget the timeline but um she was you know every a lot of people knew that she was a very uh beautiful model was a lesbian uh they say that she was bisexual but she lived a mainly lesbian lifestyle towards the end um and she was a heroin addict as well and so uh she did end up dying but you know the movie made it so appeasing and why I was watching movies like that at that age you know I just kind of we just had access to it but it does come to show you that when you when kids have access to um those type of material that type of material it does open doors as well um you know Disney I I remember people used to talk about I thought they were exaggerating you know but then now that I'm older and I start seeing it for what it is it is being used it is a tool that's being used um I remember seeing the Eternal movie of Eternal I'm sorry it really it really bothered me it really messed the movie up for me because to me let let the kids dream you know let them have their you know why do you have to put that in there that's what they're made for yeah it wasn't you know the comic books it's a fantasy world where everything is different like it it's but instead you want to put some of this world in your ideology you know you now you're you're putting these seeds into this really what it is it's a seed uh and you're putting this these seeds and hoping that one of these kids can catch on to it and that's wrong because now you're making it like uh that even superheroes can be gay you know what I'm saying um being gay is not a superpower yeah like like that makes them you know uh it makes them relatable to people that's really what they're doing it's making something relatable but the fact of the matter is is that it was a superhero movie intended for kids not like I don't to me that was just wrong um it did bug me a little bit because you know I still have friends that are are gay and I love them very much and they're not you know some of them are not aggressive about it they just want to live their life and you know be happy have a little white picket fence and then you have I have other friends that were very much aggressive they were looking for people to turn out like that we used to call it turning them out you know you you find vulnerable people that have um maybe that opened in mind that open mind to where you can get them to look this way and and get in there and and now that I realized that because I was one of them I I used to be very aggressive as far as picking out um and then I mean we're just going to be honest here you know I used to purposely choose vulnerable women that either had bad relationships have been um completely done wrong by so many men um that didn't actually have a solid sense of knowing what they wanted and so I would exploit that vulnerability and finally be able to have whatever it is I wanted from them but if you think about it isn't that what a predator does to a child a predator seeks out a vulnerable child and grooms them and gets them to finally submit to whatever it is that the person wants them to do so it's a predatory type of character and some of them are like that now I'm not saying all of them are because I know some people that are just the sweetest most loving people but they're a lot of those these activists these really angry uh aggressive activists these are the types I'm talking about they're the ones trying to set policy like that Scott Weiner California yes and I don't think that's right and I also know a lot of people that I still remain in contact with that disagree with pushing this agenda with children I actively have friends that I still talk to that are still cool with me that have embraced me in this new in this new true identity that I was meant to have and you know they might not want to change the way I did but they love me for it and they still have the same ideology I have as far as kids remaining innocent they should not be exposed to these things you know and it's I just well not to cut you off there but I just wish that those people would speak up more the problem is that they're they're too because if you disagree with those that are the loud in the front lines then either you aren't really truly gay exactly you're not and yeah you're you're not because that's some of the responses I got whenever I left that lifestyle is oh that's because you probably said to begin with well yeah and that's just it because either because to them and to most people that believe that you are born gay because you're born with it therefore you cannot go back you cannot undo that what you're born with which is something I want to address when we do the second session after but in uh in what you're in what you've touched upon because there's a catharsis to your character here how did you come back to God or come to God well I was always a very analytical person um which I believe that the Lord had to deal with me the way he did because of one my very prideful personality um which pride you know so it's not a coincidence that you know the way that it happened was so first it started with a very violent sleep paralysis episode um I was living with a woman I had been with her five years we had our own place um I had just lost my job uh about a month before that just signed the lease to a beautiful apartment and um and this was New York was it uh no this was actually that that's another relationship that I was with that was in that was also same sex uh so I was in long-term relationships you know you were in New York uh and then you moved back to Dallas was it yes so I was in New York uh I want to say I'm out there about 2000 2006 and I came back 2011 um I was in a really toxic very toxic relationship with the same you know with a woman and uh so I left out there came here um with you know pretty much partied and then met the last woman I was with uh which I was with her another five years so you know this was something that I went from one relationship and got you know pretty much into another one and um you know I was thinking about marrying uh this last one I remember we were actively looking at rings we're finding same-sex uh wedding planners and all kinds of things we had been looking into uh cryo banks um to want because I was hoping to have a gestational birth type of thing so we we were actively looking at all these things and um so I remember we had the this it was a nightly routine where we would smoke um marijuana and we would go to sleep and then this one night um and I know some people out there probably don't believe in the spiritual but this this happened this is how much I was shaking I was so there's one night uh the bed is just shaking and she's kicking and it's like a really weird high shriek sound that she was making and I try to wake up because it just alarmed me and I couldn't wake up and whatever it was was I felt like something was holding my arms down and I felt numb and I couldn't get up but I could see that she was kicking and and that weird shriek it was like a like it was just a really weird shriek and so finally I was able to sit up but I still couldn't completely move so I remember still seeing her just kind of you know doing all that finally I snapped out of it I was like babe wake up wake up but and she went back right she went back and she's like turn on the light turn on the light right now so I went to go turn on the light but you know at first I was thinking maybe something was in the house because you could feel something was there but I thought it was like a person and so you know there was nothing there and I mean it just was really weird uh it was heavy it was cold um and she was just white like like just white uh pale and I remember I went to go reach over and just touch her to check on her and she flinched and I said why are you acting like that she said you try to choke me and I said what I was like I'm over here trying to wake up what do you mean I try to choke you and she said whatever it was came at her looked like me so that kind of started like the the to open my eyes uh into the spiritual realm because I after that I began having visions and dreams of demons that I was letting in the house that were dressed as women that I used to be with you know the very lustful person very promiscuous and so all of a sudden these dreams I'm having dreams of you know these people but yet they're flipping and then it's a demon and so I started realizing all of these things and so I didn't want my parents to know because so my dad um he became Christian as I was an adult so I didn't grow up with a Christian dad you know so my mom was always a god-fearing woman um she always dragged us to church as much as she could until you know we got rebellious enough to stop and so I lasted a few days to call her I didn't want to call her because my experiences with Christianity were not good ones um you know at the time I didn't realize that it's just um sometimes you know people are not perfect and you know sometimes we just have we have certain people that don't know how to portray what God and Jesus are really like but it's not because they know better than you it's just because they're as human as you are and flawed as you are and you know um it took me a long time to understand that because you know nobody's perfect and so at the time um that's what my experiences were I finally called her a few days later and she told me you know mija I've been praying for you because the Lord told me to wake up at the exact same time that was happening to you so this is happening at that it was about 3 30 my mom said she woke up around that time which she lived on the other side of Dallas and she was praying for me at the exact same time and so I was just I refused to believe all this was really happening didn't want to seek any more help than that but I I just it wouldn't leave me alone I kept having dreams I kept having these things happen things would turn on and off in the apartment I remember smelling like a really weird rotten it smelled like a burning rotten fart you know it's like but it just I didn't know what that smell was but I remember I felt like a adrenaline all over my body like something was there and I didn't know what it was and all I could do was just scream I didn't I wasn't a Christian then so I started just cussing whatever it was out trying to make it come out and fight me and I just didn't know what it was and I was getting sick of it so finally um I got sick of just trying to be hold it all together I couldn't do it anymore I wanted to know what was happening but I didn't want to go into church so what I did is I bought me a used Bible it was a New King James Version Bible it was used because when I was looking at the more way too expensive because I'm not going to keep this thing I just want to know what it says and toss it like I just I want to know what I can get from it so when I I got it it was uh it was a hard book um kind of the binding was coming off but it was fine it did its job so I remember I I didn't know how to read it because it was just random books and so I remember I was like well I'll just start like any other book and so I remember starting to read it from Genesis and as I began to read I remember I got to chapter 19 and 20 um which is the story of Sodom and Gomorrah and how they were destroyed and just to think of the word Sodom is Sodomy um that is a very strong word you know uh for a whole city to kind of have that root that as a root word um it just kind of I was like well that's interesting and I I saw it and I realized that all the wicked things that were happening in it and so it began to kind of open my eyes a little bit um because the one thing that I remember asking myself is if God is real then why are there so many evil things that happen in his world why do things happen to me when I was little why you know you begin to question all these things and you it's hard for a person to grasp uh why if there's a good God it's so much evil and hate and all this stuff and so I remember reading through Genesis and what caught me in the beginning was let them have dominion right when he created Adam and Eve and he created everything he created man he said let them have dominion and so I realized so it's our mismanagement of this world created all this so then I started to kind of calm down like all right I see what you're saying all right let me keep reading so you know uh the more I read it I remember um when I had lost my job um she would leave at 7 30 in the morning to go to work and I would sit there in the in the on the table eating my breakfast drinking coffee and she'd be coming back from work at around five and I would still be there reading but it's like time stopped for me wow and I couldn't stop reading and I would I would get to the I remember getting to the story of King David you know and I believe it was uh second Samuel or first Samuel I always get confused with the books but the story of King David's son Amnon and his sister Tamar and how he lusted for her but it says that he was so bedridden he was so sick he was so uh he longed for her and desired her so badly that he went into a deep depression and I remember that's where the Lord gave me like an epiphany he was like all those moments that you were broken hearted over all of these women this is what it was and I was like really no I loved them no you no that's not true I remember I got so mad and I closed that book and I was like nah you're not gonna tell me this is what it was but the more that I thought about it I remember immediately getting what I wanted from people you know and then instantly just I don't care about them anymore like who else can I get it was like and I was never satisfied out I wanted the next rush and um I realized that that's what it was it was it was this this thing the same thing that he desired his sister with like that that that same thing that made him take his sister by force was the same compulsive thing inside of me that would not let me rest in in what it was that I wanted the attraction I had which I started realizing you know um and a lot of people are not gonna accept this and I I know that a lot of people are not gonna like to hear it but the compulsiveness behind same-sex attraction is the same compulsiveness as you know bestiality incest uh pedophilia you know it it unfortunately it is the same type of compulsive behavior and a lot of people are not gonna agree with that and I know that that's pretty strong yeah it is and that's that's what made me sick to my stomach I remember being so sick to my stomach and realizing that this compulsive behavior something I couldn't shut off it was beyond my control I I needed some I I was like okay well if my eyes are not seeing clearly I need help as far as you showing me the right way and I remember uh the lord started to put the desire to grow out my hair because I didn't I had an edge up so I would I would shave the sides and so I remember I got that desire to want to grow my hair out nobody told me to I did that and so it started with that and then I remember I went to Burlington and I snuck in there because I was still fully clothed like a male male you know I still wore uh briefs or boxers um sports bras I never wore you know women's clothing and so I remember going there and buying these uh outlet style makeup uh kits but I didn't want anybody to see me because I thought they were gonna look at me weird so I snuck but that's because the register was like dude trying to cross dress what yeah like I felt so weird being in the women's section and hurry up makeup kit and I'm just like you know but uh where I hid the makeup from my ex and I didn't want her to see that I had brought makeup home and so I I hid it I I remember I had a two-bedroom apartment I hid the makeup in the second room so she wouldn't see and when she was gone I would play with makeup just to see what it would look like um obviously I couldn't couldn't do I look like that barmaid from Shrek 2 you know I didn't but I listen I was looking rough but I was what would yeah but you know and so um in one line I was like I'm curious to see what in the world I would look like I desired it I really wanted it and so the more you know the more happening um she didn't like it you know she did not like it because uh I remember eventually when you know things got physical I would always go to the bathroom and start crying and I didn't know why because conviction is not something uh that can be described when you're coming out of a lifestyle like that it was hard I didn't know what convictions felt like and so I felt like I was going crazy I felt like something was truly wrong with me because I'm like well this is who I am why do I feel weird now so I remember this one day I had I felt like I was having a nervous breakdown because I didn't I couldn't get this feeling out of my gut where that I was doing something wrong not because anybody was telling me but because something inside of me didn't want this anymore but I didn't know how to voice it or address it and so I remember my my ex found me crying and she's like what's wrong with you because I was on the floor sobbing so hard I was in a fetal position and I said I don't know and she's like what do you mean you don't know I said I don't know what's wrong and I remember she looked at me with this face and I realized that she knew what was happening and she started cussing me out started cussing me out started telling me that's what you get for reading that book she said so she started just going at me and telling me like this is why I didn't want you to read it you see you're getting brainwashed and all this stuff and she thought that somebody was telling me things but nobody was telling me anything it was just it was just literally God working through that Bible that I had gotten and and it was just working me it's way into my mind and my heart and you know I remember when I gave my first gave my life to the Lord it didn't happen in a church it happened um in my living room genuinely in my living room I remember I couldn't take it anymore and I just fell to my knees and I said you keep messing with my head I kept saying that I'm like but I want it I said I want it but I need to help I need your help to change if you want me to change and this is really from you I need your help to help me change and that's really what what started it off for me um and I mean there's so much more to it it's a long story but um you know she eventually was the one that took me to a church uh because she went um on a trip that her her dad was deported so they went to El Salvador to go visit him and while they were out there they got into a car accident with the motorcycle uh guy on a motorcycle and they killed him and uh the guy died because obviously over there there's no um er like you know they can't just um you don't have the ambulance right there at your disposal to go pick up you know someone and take them you know the guy laid there in the road for four hours and he died and so she got a little traumatized from that and so um she kept having nightmares and survivor's guilt and so I remember when that happened she was being tormented so much that she said you know what I think I need to go to a church so we just chose the nearest one next to us and but that I had remained silent about my curiosity and I continued to read behind her back but at that point it came from her wanting to go and so I remember I went to the nearest church it wasn't I mean their their doctrine was a little different but it just it got me in like it got my feet wet you know and um eventually I I you know we we did split finally and I ended up leaving and even that was another warfare but um I got connected through one of my cousins here to where I am now which is Casa de mi Gloria, the house of my glory that's where I'm at now and that's where I've been since so I know just a few details out there but no no that's uh it's a redemption story and and that one that I didn't know all the details of one that I'm very glad you shared because it's this kind of like it's all been kind of melding in in the way I I expected this conversation to go uh because first we addressed the activism slash grooming that influenced you as well uh and you lived the lifestyle eventually coming out of that lifestyle and you even dropped little hints there about the Christian response on how to handle something like this here's what I gotta say about that before bringing like like seeing if you feel when we know the story now and because because of how uh you're in the spirit now you know that this is this was your path this was how you had to come to experience God uh I forged a similar path not in that lifestyle but a different lifestyle more of self-destructive lifestyle and and it's that was my path to come to this dealing with the spiritual realm and all that's just all the more true to me and that's just something that's uh is incredibly real I'm gonna share with you something that's when we're off camera that I think will really trip you out but okay but that's for later so I was expressing to my wife about that we're going to talk about this topic and what obsessed me about the the Christian church there's the mainstream Christian church then there's the liberal Christian church there's a liberal Christian church that accepts all that lifestyle it was the United Methodist church if I'm not mistaken that first that they had their first openly gay bishop Gene Robinson he was the first openly gay bishop and all this when you start hearing all this like huh so when the big catholic sex scandal popped out it actually fizzled out way quicker than I thought it would I'm like are we gonna ignore the elephant in the room here men molesting boys what could that be that's why I don't hear you yeah you might hear some jokes about that but the underlying condition there was it was homosexual behavior preying on boys yeah but that's not entirely what uh what I'm getting I just like this stuff is prevalent there's some churches that look the other way or they don't know how to handle it the Catholic church they were hiding in this and that's like dude what the heck you had to take it on head on and reject the evil for it was the problem with the church though let's call the conservative church they some of them preach that okay parents it's up to you to teach your children about sex and I agree problem is parents don't know where to begin church give them guidance on how and what to do it's not the church's job to teach them it's the parents yeah that's what my wife's like I don't know what we're gonna do when we talk about these things I've already had to talk about with my daughter she's gonna turn nine tomorrow but I started talking to her about a couple years ago because there was just no avoiding some things and I'm like well and just to keep in the simple-minded approach and as she's getting older just letting her know in more complicated terms and and not talking down to her because she's condescending she's really intelligent so she's grasping things well what I don't like is that church it comes to homosexuality they're quick like oh hold the cross to it okay let's list off the seven deadly sins it's homosexuality among them no no adultery is that's the closest thing you get to promiscuity right yeah like that one is but it isn't explicitly labeling homosexuality as one of the seven deadly sins but of the seven deadly sins how many of those do the church either condone through their actions by not addressing them immediately or not disciplining enough or looking the other way envy anger the corruption that goes into a lot of stuff that happens within the church it's that destroys a congregation when it's brought to light yeah but we're made to believe that the homosexual person that's what we talked about the activism at the beginning then we talked and you talked about it in your your experience and living that lifestyle and God getting you out of it if the church knew how to better handle that do you think your lifestyle would have like your life choices would have been different oh yeah I do I remember um when my mom uh my dad obviously handled it a little different because my dad's thing was oh well I guess you it's one less one I gotta worry about getting pregnant you know so in his mind his mind thank God I don't have to worry about you but um my mother um at the time and it's part of the testimony because she also um talks about it too but she didn't handle it very you know it was definitely something that was very hard for me um she didn't handle it very well and then eventually it turned into you know well if you're gonna live like that I don't want anybody to that knows us to see you you know and so um that which is why I ended up in New York at the time because my mindset was well I'm gonna get as far away as possible and uh you know now I know that I could have easily gone as far as maybe South Texas or somewhere and I literally went across the country so yeah so um but I think unfortunately when you're afraid of something you want to be away from it that fear makes you draw away from something instead of you know some people have that you know defense mechanism where no I punch you know some people punch as a reflex some people throw others as shields in front of them you know so you have people that are different when they face these things and um it wasn't the only person um I remember I did have uh some family members that accused me of uh possibly molesting my uh female cousins and they didn't want them around me because I could molest them because of that um and so a lot of name calling and things like that and you know from family members that I loved very much that seemingly saw me grow up and that hurt my feelings although that family member was not a Christian but it was someone that I did love very much and for him to say that he didn't want my cousin around me because I might molest her you know it just kind of just also comes to show how some people already feel instantly about it yeah and so it was a lot of rejection I went with it um and I think that even coming into the first church that I tried to go into um I nobody tried to talk to me nobody followed up with me everybody actually avoided me and um and so I realized that um when someone is intimidated by something like that um they try to kind of get away from it because they don't know how to approach it and so an instant rejection and people are very aware that you're rejecting them or not even rejecting them but you're that you're trying to stay away from them um and because of that they instantly know oh they hate me or you know in their mind that's what that's what it is because if you want to stay away from someone so badly that that's what you think it's something negative you know but really it's you're not thinking of man that person is scared to approach me because they don't want to say the wrong thing or maybe that person is afraid of what what my story can can be about because they're not going to know how to talk to me about it you know maybe it's a little intimidating but sometimes intimidation looks different you know so now I've learned that that there's different different people you know that they show fear in different ways um that's really what I learned now and that has a lot to do with the fact that uh I call it a failure of leadership to disciple people yeah that's partly because also people's fault it's not just leadership some people just go there to be bench warmers and they think that yeah I know it all you're always gonna have that judgmental Christian and the way I grew up of born and raised in the church not that I didn't go there by choice it was all by force uh and ultimately as as I grew up um to have the accusations leveled at me as as they were it doesn't make I was no saint but um accusations thrown against me as I was growing up because of my self-destructive lifestyle and the curses that were cast upon me quite literally it's just like dude then what's the point of coming to church uh I thought you're supposed to come here to feel better about yourself but uh apparently you gotta live in in perpetual shame so uh eventually when I did devote my life to God and um I just kept having those clashes at church and like I'll come I'm confused Lord I thought this is this is your house this is where I'm supposed to find you uh and instead I find myself at odds and and then I realized well he is here it's just there's some people that are not connected in the spirit so you know what I started telling some of those people that yeah I'm not here for you I'm here for God and I'm gonna keep coming here for that so you you keep doing you I'm gonna talk to God and then some of that stuff just quiet it down because hey he's not fazed by it anymore it's like what I just don't care like whatever man that the one that insults me the most is the guy in the mirror anyway so yeah I think I practiced enough I mean and that's and that is what's underlying in all that there was um I knew a groomer I didn't know she was a school this this particular girl tried to groom who is now my wife and did a really good job in almost convincing her but she did successfully groom a few of my friends that ultimately took a while but snapped out of it and I went the other way again uh and uh I'm still friends with my sisters to this day so I knew she was actively preying on um on the younger it's like if they were if they were I felt that they were of age 18 and she's over 20 if they were of age 18 they were too old for her I kept I noticed that she kept going for younger and younger and younger I'm like wow uh and it just lost contact with anybody that knew this person it's like I hope they know that she was dealt with uh like the the authorities properly I wouldn't know but there's another this was a dude who was a kind-hearted soul he just kept to himself everybody knew it's like dude there was there was just no way he couldn't be that's like the kind of approach and the judgment that people cast upon not in a disparaging way but you just accepted that the guy was definitely more feminine yeah and he had he had a lot more in common with the with the gals and with the dudes so he wouldn't go play with the dudes he would spend more time with the gals but people respected him oh man so did I yeah at first I was a little weirded out when I first met him afterwards like man whatever it's you it's you uh last time I saw him uh he he lives in Europe now uh when he came to visit um this is before covid uh when he came to visit I was like oh hey he's in town yeah sure why not let's meet up so everybody took turns meeting up with him because friends at this point were scattered all over the place I remember I need after we all some of us got together um he needed to ride home and I'm like oh dude I'll drive you say oh but it's 40 miles like yeah whatever man I'll drive you it's all good he was a little tired of having to share a particular scary event that happened and he just happened to be just a few blocks from it it was the terrorist attack in Paris and that's where he was living in France when it happened so everywhere he went he had to tell the same story over and over again so he was kind of fed up by it so and this is a moment that I had to be able to have a one-on-one with the dude and he's in fashion and all that so um like in the artsy world so to him he felt like he really couldn't relate with almost anybody here because none of them were into fashion like like he was but it's more like the artistic sense you know the the artiste so as we were driving we bonded in a way it was like I knew for a fact it was a conversation he knew he couldn't have with anybody else how do you know that how can you speak like that I'm a writer man and I and also respect arts and crafts so I definitely get where you're coming from hell I wasn't gonna be in Hollywood uh but God called me so we ended up talking we had a really good heart-to-heart all the way up there and and he knew that Andres wasn't disparaging him or looking down upon him for a lifestyle I I understood him I connected with him heck I I did like from the artistic side like for work or whatever I was doing the very same thing but in writing and other content creation he's like he he felt I could tell he felt he finally found it towards the end of his trip here that the least where he least expected it he found the person he could relate with the most and we did end up talking about God towards towards the very end there and it was just a wonderful drive and he was just so grateful for the ride and he's like stay in touch you know so that's um and that's how it was I'm older than him so we didn't go to the same grade but uh he was friends with my sister and my wife she wasn't my wife yet but um they were all friends so that's how we gave we came to know each other and my reputation to school preceded me I was only there for one year but everybody thought that I I was like I was always there like I was only here for a year but like you left an impression on the school like well I didn't know I did I I thought nobody even knew I was there but uh apparently I did so uh yeah but I I just gotta say it's uh that's what we need more of like Jesus didn't reject anybody no he called out the uh the um um those that thought themselves as the morally superior and religiously righteous yeah he immediately called them out because they were the hypocrites yeah and everybody said well how could you eat with these people you're yeah do you know who you're eating with yeah the doctor doesn't need the healthy he works with the sick that's why I'm here just that there's also the other extreme which is why there's the mainstream Christian church that's also failed it's like oh you know what God is all love you know he loves you you know it's just for who you are yeah he said go and sin no more he didn't say you do you nowhere does he say that in the word and that's that's a failure on their part no you're right um and you know it's funny that you say that because um that that scripture is actually one of the ones that made me fall in love with Jesus more than anything because the the person I that I thought in my mind who he was it just wasn't when I saw this um I remember it was uh mark 2 16 and 17 where he talked about you know the he's watching him sit down with tax collectors and sinners you know um and them just I can just imagine them just looking oh you know like why is he sitting over there what is he doing and them criticizing him and he you know he said those who are well have no need of a physician but those who are sick you know I caught I came to call the sinners to repentance you know not the righteous and so you know it made me fall in love with him because he that's the way it's supposed to be and if you really think about it the only time that he was really approaching the the the obviously he did preach on repentance but he he mainly aimed the repentant to turn from your sin and turn from your ways mainly at them openly like that at parishes mainly you know he would he would direct that type of speech to them more than anything I mean he would do it overall but a lot of the times he was more aggressive with them because of the way they were he approached the tax collectors and sinners to sit with them and build a relationship with them but with the other ones he would just get straight to the point and be like y'all need to change and um I realized that you know the repentance is repentance is it's it was there for everybody but the approach on how to teach that is different with certain people and I think that that's where they don't really study that part of how Jesus approached it with the Pharisees they already knew the law so now he could get straight to the y'all need to change but these people don't know the law so he built the relationship with them and he sat with them and and got to conversate with them and I think that's what is missing in the church is people need to build relationships they're very good speakers but horrible listeners out there oh yeah a lot of that that is something that I mean I could I could sit here and teach all blue in the face but if the person I'm teaching I know nothing about them I don't know their their name their background I don't know anything about them why would they even dare receive anything from me um I think that's the problem is we need to build relationships build bonds with people and lead them to God and not be not play the Holy Spirit in their life we need to let the Holy Spirit be the one to do the convicting because that's what he was he's here to help and he's here to convict the sin that's what Jesus said he was sent here that that the one that would uh give testimony of him you know and and and and also convicted the world of sin that's his job you know that's what he's what he's here for but instead we're doing that we're doing his job we're telling you what to do we're telling you know but if that person has no desire and no conviction to do something right but they're doing it because I'm telling them to then that's religion them doing things because I'm saying it and I think that's what has happened in not just church uh in Christianity but just any um any type of faith that is telling a person to change without the conviction of the Holy Spirit in them that's why it backfired it backfires like that and then they end up hating God because this person which is an ambassador the representative they didn't know how to display correctly what this represents and a lot of the times um you know I think of this if I'm wearing my church t-shirt right they always give those welcome t-shirts and stuff if I walk into a place and I'm treating everybody like crap wearing that shirt they're gonna be like if that's the type of people that go to that church I'm not going no and so if let you know we we need to really treat people and and and engage people as if that big giant shirt is on you telling I am a Christ follower I am a Jesus follower it's a big giant neon sign on top of you wherever you go would you still continue to do the things you do and be that representative if you know that everybody's watching you you know that you're no longer representing yourself anymore like what your approach has to be different has to be loved you know um and I think that's something that I didn't I never experienced the love of God through people it was literally him so he had to do it directly for me in order for me to know him deeper and um and I'm grateful for it now because you know now I could teach others how to do it different I have people asking me now um how do you how do I tell people or how do I approach them now I have people asking me you know as opposed to back then they used to just um already assume no you need it yes you need to tell them tell them and warn them about sin and things like that but what is your approach when you do it because there's a way to do it you know that's to me it's not the message it's the approach your approach what is what is your approach you know yeah and I think we live in a in a society of a very sensitive um coddled generation yes like keep my wife's name out your mouth it's like dude that wasn't you that wasn't you that was you that was your wife telling you to go do what she needed you to do yeah I don't want to get into that but I had to drop that mention at some point you know I agree with you on that one because he was laughing too and all of a sudden he goes up there and does that yeah I know it's like huh no Jada told you to go out to go stop before yeah I believe you don't know why I do well it's I because we're gonna have to be wrapping it up here um yeah I one of the things that I do feel correct me if I'm wrong yeah but it goes to whether it's the lifestyle I feel that the if the church wants a direction on how to approach I would say do it in the same way as you approach someone suffering from some kind of addiction if it's a sexual addiction it doesn't matter what kind of sexual addiction uh if it's uh if it's a same-sex addiction or some dude that wants to lay as many girls as he can in the lifetime you know it doesn't matter the point is it's still promiscuity and they both carry the same risks of STDs and other things yeah and it's uh all driven by lust and desire and we are we are wired with hormones just some things especially with dudes can speak to that uh are are wired uh very very differently um and it's it's almost instinctive but just like someone trying to get out of their lifestyle and you probably I don't want to name drop her but you know so and so that was also struggling with alcoholism I rejected the way that everybody tried handling it for her because like you guys are not helping you're only shaming her into going back to the bottle yes and the way she got out of it was Jesus delivering her out of it and she and she always turned to me those calls in the middle of the night especially Texas time and I'm in California time uh those those calls were um were tough to take because I'm like I wish I could be there for you yeah let me do what I can over over the phone um console you pray for you and things like that I just put the bottle down open the caps and put me on video I want to see you just dropping those into the sink those kind of things you know um but never anything about condemnation never telling her it's shameful that you turn back to this thing because like hey I deal with my own addiction I know exactly what you're going through in that sense where you feel like you have it's so am I would you think that would be an approach of at least the church can start from there to treat that lifestyle similar to how you would handle like an addiction that's called the 12-step program kind of thing yes I do I do believe that it should be approached like that because um I think that you know if you just tell somebody well just shut it off you can't you know somebody if somebody comes in you know they're homeless you know let's say that let's say you know this person struggles with homelessness right you could they come in you tell them hey just put on some new clothes and take a shower that'll fix it no that's he's still struggling in his mind with whatever caused him to get to that point you know um drug addiction they could detox but if they're not dealing with the root they're gonna go right back they're gonna go right back it's it's what you see in front of you is only the the fruit the outcome you need to get into the root of why that is like that you know which is what the you know you you lead them and you teach them to get closer to the lord you teach them to love the lord you teach them how to do it you don't do it for them you do it you help them get there it's like a chemical wash you know you tell them to go through it they get washed you know you're not doing it for them and I think that you know you love on them love them through the process because you know there it's not just going to happen one day to the next it didn't happen with me like that it was a process and I did struggle in the beginning because it's also habits you know um you know you you can be delivered from something but if you're you don't also manage your habits you can go right back to the same things if your your habits are not in line with where you're going that that's that mentality that we talk about you know um and so I do think that there just has to be a better system in churches especially culture our culture that old school culture they don't know how to love people through things you know for men you man up and that's it and for women you shut up and deal with it you know and no sometimes that's just not the way to do it and it's harmful it's actually very harmful and everybody's very much offended like you said so you're sitting here having to tiptoeing and walking on eggshells with so many different things and trying to love these people who are easily offended as well and that that could be exhausting sometimes but if you have the right heart and you you let the lord be the one to lead you it gets easier you're not doing it it's the lord doing it for you you know yeah that makes a difference and uh and on that word is we'll we'll wrap so thank you so much ingrid for joining me here on locals to have this conversation I hope you enjoyed it because I would love to bring you on whenever a topic like this comes up again yes yes right on all right well folks well folks thank you for joining me ingrid so folks this is where we'll we'll leave it uh stay tuned for the next installment where we're going to be talking about uh you could come on for this one um talking about another letter on that alphabet community uh more controversial than the news thanks for joining me everybody see you in the next one