Will the racism in Reform topple Nigel Farage? | The News Agents

They're behaving like criminals, they need to be prosecuted, we will prosecute them. He's not talking about the candidates, he's talking about journalists who've done the undercover work. Senior party officials are heard in some of these clips saying they have to defend the indefensible. Posts from Perry on social media said that the then Deputy Prime Minister David Lammy quotes, must go home to the Caribbean where his loyalty lies. Questioning David Lammy's patriotism is straight up and down racism. The News Agents podcast is brought to you by HSBC UK, opening up a world of opportunity. This is a global production. But above all, what we are going to do from today is we are going to professionalise the party. We are going to democratise the party. and those few bad apples that have crept in will be gone will be long gone and we will never have any of their type back in our organization you have the 100% promise, my one hundred percent promise on that promise made promise broken Mr Farage because that was in 2024 and what we've been treated to over the past couple of nights is a slew of allegations of racist, homophobic, misogynist counsellors that are still there. The ITV undercover investigation is continuing to produce some extraordinary undercover footage of how reform really works from the inside. Is Nigel Farage about to get caught in its trap? Welcome to the News Agents. the news agents it's john it's lewis and um the ITV exposure program a year with reform um which is going to air on Sunday as i was saying continues to produce some extraordinary revelations about how reform candidates and indeed the reform leadership operate on a day-to-day basis and on Thursday night a new set of clips and new set of allegations were brought forward which go up to and include in various ways Nigel Farage himself so just to recap as to what came out last night senior party officials are heard in some of these clips saying they have to defend the indefensible on a regular basis in one case Reform's director of comms himself says that a reform mayoral candidate should be sacked for being a racist so he comes out with some credit after he questioned black and Asian politicians loyalty to Britain but party leader Nigel Farage allowed him to stay and there's a clip on that insisting that he simply be allowed to apologize instead might be worth since we're on that just playing that clip and hearing it apologize to Lamb yeah that's what he's doing if David Lammy's mistaken he's not too happy with it i'm sure but we just need to do it can move on yeah yeah i agree tell him that properly yeah you can text him he's showing a bit of a bit of salt i'm sorry it's probably a good thing yeah don't use the rear app that's the problem the audio is not great there but just to remind you in terms of what they're talking about they're talking about David Lammy and the person that they're talking about the person in question was at the time Reform's candidate to be Mayor of Hampshire, Dr Chris Parry, and a post from Parry on social media said that the then Deputy Prime Minister, David Lammy, who of course actually was born and raised in Britain, quotes, must go home to the Caribbean where his loyalty lies. Now I think we can all agree that there is only one word for that, and it is completely racist. It's complete racism, because clearly he would not say that about a white politician And he's assuming that Lammy is from the Caribbean because he's black. It's also interesting about why Nigel Farage wants to protect this particular individual, whereas others he's been happy to see kind of be discarded with. And it sounds like the guy who was the mayoral candidate for Hampshire is posh, is well-to-do, is an ex-Royal Navy officer. And so surely we can find a way of accommodating him. if he just apologizes a bit we'll forgive him and you think well hang on just how can we reconcile that with you saying those few bad apples that have crept in will be gone will be long gone and we'll never have any of their type back in the organization quote unquote from Nigel Farage after the general election in 2024 I mean that as you say Lewis is straight up and down racism you know questioning David Lammy's patriotism loyalty to this country and he really needs to go back to a country he wasn't even born in particularly um sticks in the craw you might say when we remember that a former uh leader in wales from their own party is literally in prison right now because he was basically committing treason in favor of the russian state so you know if there's a question about some people's patriotism maybe they should look a bit close to him it's also worth saying that he did apologize to Lammy he did show that sorrow as Farage was encouraging him to do and he was allowed to stay as reform was mayor or candidate even after that might be worth noting that he was finally suspended from the party months later pending investigation over controversial comments about a Jewish neighbourhood watch group and the reform have not revealed or indeed published the results of those allegations or those investigations I should say so far so it might well be that Mr Parry had some form as it turned out in these matters You see, so I thought what was interesting is that, you know, the expose last night from ITV was the result of a huge amount of work. But this was inside the HQ. It wasn't just a few random counsellors that you found on the streets in, you know, Solihull or wherever it happened to be. These are people at the engine in the engine room. And actually, you know, you thought the press officers were trying to do a good job. I mean, you know, we are having to defend the indefensible on a regular basis. Well, the director of comms is clear in those clips, and I say emerging from some credit, for saying that Mr Parry, in his view, was being a racist. And I think what's particularly damaging about that clip for Nigel Farage, who has been clear that he wanted to get rid of these so-called bad apples, saying it's just a bad apple problem, isolated cases. What you don't hear him in that clip say is really engaging with the substance of whether he's been racist or not and saying, right, if he's been racist, we don't want him as our candidate, right? what he's doing is he's managing the press he's sort of saying well just get him to show some sorrow apologize to Lammy and it'll be fine which of course might question someone to ask whether Farage actually is very serious about changing some of the culture in the party and of course this wasn't all because there were other things that were revealed um last night as well um the undercover reporter also found that one reform councillor was allowed to stay in the party after being found to have been registered on a white supremacist dating website which promoted nazi propaganda um inside reform press office they said it wasn't wasn't a resignation issue i mean i wasn't actually aware there were white supremacist dating websites but i mean i suppose i suppose they must exist i suppose it's quite helpful for mi5 to find a compendium of all the fascists out there they're all out there just sort of copping up with each other well yeah exactly trying to find all white restaurants or whatever it is i mean you know but apparently that wasn't a problem either um another one undercover reporter in chester also witnessed how the vetting process encouraged possible candidates to delete their social media accounts before applying to disguise any links with far-right activists tommy robinson in greater manchester a candidate who stood for reform in the local elections in may said he had initially failed vetting twice because of his support for tommy robinson and sharing offensive posts about Keir Starmer but later had someone ring up from reform hq saying no you must stand like come along we really want you within the party and indeed even um one of their elected mps was recorded talking about the culture of the party this is sarah poaching who of course won the runcorn by-election here she is talking about the culture within reform i'm a press officer i'm starting in january oh my god i thought we so need women press officers yeah they are so ******* chauvinistic I go out on all the shows to go oh that's lovely so welcoming ---- what do they do well they just exude you if you're a woman there's a bit of a male issue there you have it Sarah Poaching just talking about what a sexist club uh reform hq is um and i think that that comes off the back of what we heard the night before with those two guys in the pub talking in the most disgusting terms about what they'd like to do with some reform candidate which started with the word um as they were discussing kind of her attributes and i think this is a problem and i know that i mean reform's approach to this is to revisit bad apples but also to say why why is everyone ganging up against us why is the mainstream media just going after us and i would say well two things to that it's not just you any party that aspires to be in power is gone after but without investigative journalism would we have known mr farage that you got a personal donation of five million pounds from a crypto billionaire who lives abroad and where you suddenly seem to have crypto policies that are very advantageous to him it's thanks to investigative journalism that we're finding out stuff that broadly speaking the british people need to know if we're going to be deciding who the next government is going to be and who the next prime minister is going to be i think that the look i i think there are things you can say in reform as a fact i mean there's been some people in reform today i'll talk about that in a minute but i think that i think one of the things you can certainly say as a point of critique in this is a bit a bit as i was saying before with farage in that clip where we don't hear them or hear him anyway addressing what should be the concern which is has this guy been racist or not and what kind of message does it send not just about us as a party but about such casual racism to have such a hype to retain him as a candidate i think there are other examples of that i think what is one of the more damning things about this is that there it feels as if there is just a tininess and a lack of sensitivity to the question of racism itself so for example on that white supremacist thing this absurd thing this guy Gavin Beals who's a reform candidate a councillor in North Northamptonshire registered on a white supremacist dating website a newspaper reported the site was exclusively for whites and Europids seeking tribal love which had promoted the survival of the white race you know the reform press officers in question here seem to be unaware or unconcerned about it in the clip so you hear a senior press officer saying you get muslim dating sites you get christian dating sites you get black dating sites you get jamaican dating site it's not great but another one says it's not a resignation issue is it that to me reveals what is simply a kind of complete lack of intellectual curiosity or understanding about what racism is you cannot compare ethnic groups or dating websites which are dedicated to particular sorts of people with a website or dating app which is dedicated to what is essentially a fascist ideology based on racism itself it is different from it would you know i mean you could say i suppose the consistent thing to say would be if there was a white only dating website but we know this is this is we're talking about a white supremacist dating website you might as well have nazi dating website right it is different for having dating websites which are dedicated to particular groups of people who might want to meet other like-minded group or other groups of people who share that particular characteristic as opposed to a dating website for people who want to embed racism and white supremacy and the fact that that is not obvious to those people i think is a revealing thing and i think they should ask themselves some questions about why it's not obvious and how that suggests that frankly they are being not only insensitive but deeply incurious about the accusations that are being leveled at them yeah and it's kind of interesting to listen to Nigel Farage i mean he cancelled a news conference uh yesterday he has appeared on a Daily Telegraph uh podcast where some of these allegations have been put to him he's much more exercised by the journalists that have done the investigation rather than what they've found have a listen they're behaving like criminals uh they need to be prosecuted we will prosecute them for what they've done um but yeah i mean what they're basically doing is saying to the world that you know i'm fair game we're fair game i mean it's just it's incredible to think that our democracy has sunk to these depths they're criminals they're going to be prosecuted he's not talking about the candidates who've been found to express he's talking about journalists who've done the undercover work well or indeed yes candidates who however fleetingly might have indulged an interest in white supremacy you know i mean i've heard of swiping right but that's taking taking it to a whole nother level i mean like this is just this is i know but like but but look what what's the defense here well i think some of this stuff in fairness and they've obviously committed huge resources ITV to this some of this stuff i think that they put out i think actually you might hear in any political party or dare i say for example you hear about some of these press officers talking about some of the nutters they've selected you'd hear that in the labour party hq you hear that conservative party hq dare i say you'd hear it in newsrooms that sort of language being a bit like because and this is the other thing which is one defense i would say for reform would be to say that look they have it and this is a matter of public record they have invested a lot of money in trying to vet their vetting procedures because they are a new part ish party and they're not like the labour and conservative parties which have deep roots in local communities and normally the way it works when you've got a local tory association or a labour clp they kind of know who the local people are and who the weirdos are and who they can try and siphon out they don't always succeed by the way and if you were to apply this level of rigor to some local government selections even in the labour and conservative parties you'd find some pretty fruity characters some interesting characters some characters with some pretty eccentric views so i don't think that is unique to reform and i think it is certainly true that you know then their status as a newer party is going to mean that you can that certain they will have certain candidates because they're standing so many new candidates across the country who you know frankly do not pass the sniff test to put it mildly i think the critique though which that doesn't seem to occur to them is this what is it about all these people with far-right views which so seems to attract them to reform exactly it is not a coincidence right and it is not a coincidence and could it be for example let's be let's be frank there have been plenty of examples from the top of reform leadership down and where they have used language and tropes of the far right Suella Braverman which when she did this when she was a Tory minister in fairness but you know talking about an invasion Zia Yusuf tweeting about a Somalian politician suggesting that we all know what's going on here nudge nudge wink wink Sarah Poaching talking about how when she's watching TV she sees too many black faces for her liking Robert Jenrick when he goes to Birmingham saying you know he didn't see a single white face when he was that you know on and on it goes and each time they make an excuse and each time you can sort of maybe logically occasionally sort of see where they're coming from and you defend it and they survive and whatever but taking in the totality has it not occurred to them that these things from the elite level of the party might just might just attract the sort of person who might be interested in going on a white supremacist dating website and until they acknowledge that tension and as I say I defend them to some extent on on the difficulties of candidate selection being a new party I think that's all fair enough but two things can be true at once it can be true that vetting is difficult they're a new party they've invested a lot of money in this sort of thing but it's also true that sometimes moths are attracted to a certain type of flame exactly and that's the point isn't it it's also true as you say Lewis that if you look at some of the conservative candidates some of the liberal candidates uh some of the I mean I was you know I used to live in Winchester and it turned out the Liberal Democrat MP also had a pretty fruity lifestyle that led to his demise and exiting from... It's Mark Otten we're talking about here. This is Mark Otten. Look it up, everybody. If you haven't heard the story, just look it up. Don't do it at lunchtime, that's all I'd say. Not before eating, certainly. So, I mean, you know, it's absolutely true. But what you're seeing are people with the range of human frailties. You know, they may be fraudsters. They may have dabbled in kind of weird sexual practice. They may have all sorts of things on which there is a consistency of what you're finding in the recordings when ITV go undercover. And it is racism. It's bigotry. It is misogyny. And that is the through line that runs through all of it. And so there is a particular problem. And as you say, you know what Nigel Farage and Zia Yusuf and Richard Tice and Jenrick and others do brilliantly is they go up to a line and know that they mustn't cross it because they will be accused of racism or sowing racial discontent or whatever it happens to be. but make an argument very cleverly and they've got thousands of people who have suddenly been brought into a party where it's not the same where they don't know and haven't got an instinctive understanding of where that line is and articulate things now it may be that in the hours and hours and hours of tapes and recordings there are an awful lot of reform councillors who may be helping little old ladies across the road and being perfect model citizens we don't know you know of the people that have been focused on whether that was all they got you know every everyone that they aimed for came up with something racist or whether there were huge piles of reform councillors doing decent work and being decent human beings we don't know that but i think it is telling a story itself and i think actually in some ways the reaction of reform to these disclosures is telling in itself i mean have a listen to this clip because this is the undercover reporter exploring how you get through vetting in reform previously got an account where i've denied some sort of support like tommy robinson might be tweeting some stuff like that i don't what were they on twitter and well x isn't it they're there but i can find them delete them i think tommy robinson is outdone too yeah and i think the bulk of what he says i agree with right not all but politically he's toxic and what Nigel Farage has learned over 30 years of being in politics is we've got to play the game a little bit yeah so just do what's necessary don't worry about your links in the past just you know wipe it i do i do go back to this point And again, I think Reform's biggest problem is that clearly internally, I just don't think they have a very consistent understanding of or sort of logic around racism itself. And if they take in some of these things more seriously, at least the case of Mr. Parry, then they'd be on sort of firmer ground. But again, I mean, I saw Kemi Badenoch tweeting about this yesterday saying this just shows how different we are to Reform. It wasn't so long ago that Kemi Badenoch was defending a man who had literally gone to prison for anti-Semitism, allowing him to stand as a candidate, and who had harassed and made the life hell of Luciana Berger, now Baroness Berger, a Labour Party peer. And, you know, people sort of forget this now because the news cycle is so fast. But, you know, I mean, a truly horrific case. And Badenoch was saying, oh, well, I just believe in rehabilitation. so there is a you know there is a there is a problem particularly in local government i'm amazed to this day i think Badenoch got away with that extraordinarily and if that had been a reform if that had been if they had if reform right if that had been a reform guy and they'd found that we would be hearing about it for days and weeks and i think that you know there is a i think that they have some some some some legitimacy to the critique that the burden on some of their candidates and the scrutiny, I think there is a greater than there would be at the moment for some of the mainstream parties. I think that's true. I think that's true. They brought it upon themselves to some extent, but I do think that what happened, for example, with Badenoch and how she was basically allowed to sort of sail through that, and I know some of the people involved found it extraordinary that she was able to do so. I think if that had been Farage and Reform, I think that it would have been a far bigger story for longer. I think that's a fair point. I think, look, we covered this on the news extensively and saying, you know, how is it possible? But lots of people didn't. Yes, I know. But I just kind of, I suppose when I hear, oh, this is just the media and they never attack anyone else. And I'm thinking, Christ, well, we took Badenoch to task very firmly over that and thought it was the most extraordinary misjudgment. We were at the Green Party conference and I don't think anyone could say we gave the Green Party an easy time. And do you need to go undercover with the Greens when everything, frankly, that they're doing is so out in the open? You know, they're kind of doing stuff where you think, my God, are you really hoping you're going to win over public opinion doing stuff like this? And, you know, and we went after Labour as well when there were kind of stuff about, you know, Keir Starmer expressing, you know, accepting suits and glasses and whatever else it happened to be. because that's that's the job of journalism is to hold people in power to account and that's what we're doing and do we get it wrong sometimes I mean arguably you could say that Reform have had it easy for a very long time from large sections of the media where they have been given a free right now you know there's a huge volume of opinion on the left that is furious with the BBC at how often Nigel Farage washes up on Question Time or wherever it happens to be. Yeah, and look, I think it is true that certainly in 2025, Farage enjoyed a great press. Reform enjoyed it as well. I think there's no doubt, we've talked about it on the show before. Obviously, this ITV expose has been in the works for a long time, so I wouldn't include this in it. But as I said before, I mean, I think there's no doubt that over the course of this year, the Conservative press have decided, much of it, you know, the Daily Mail, The Times, others, Telegraph to some extent have decided that they want a Conservative Party revival that they're backing Kemi Badenoch to the hilt she enjoys as I've said before I think an extraordinary press really I don't think there's been a single negative article about her in any of those papers for for a very long time and I think Reform have felt the heat as a result because suddenly the press that they had enjoyed for quite a long time suddenly the eye of Sauron is turned upon them and uh you know we've seen over the course of the year that has had a cumulative effect that's not to say that any of that journalism is wrong by the way and particularly the stuff around Farage's finances and so on but I think that they have had to inhabit a media environment which has turned noticeably cooler and I think they're feeling the pressure of that I think the other argument that they would put um is you've committed all these resources to finding out wrongdoing in Reform but you haven't laid a glove really on Nigel Farage I mean that's that would be there so you you haven't heard him saying something that oh my god we've got the quote now we've got him he's we've exposed him as this or that I mean yeah he was forgiving and wanting to get move on with the guy in Hampshire um fair dues and you've got him sort of a bit in the Channel 4 documentary where kind of but you know he's got some plausible deniability there as well and I suppose that you know is it does it go to the very top of the party I think that Farage will take some comfort from the fact that it probably you know at the moment doesn't look like it's got there well I think that all of this still augments the idea um or strengthens the idea that you know we really can't be certain that Farage leads the party into the yeah election because we know that Farage hates this sort of stuff. He certainly hated all the stuff into his finances. He hates this. I think there is a feeling, I think I could completely imagine a resignation speech where he says what he believes, and listeners and viewers can mock this and find it risible or even pathetic, but this is definitely, I know, what he believes, which is that the establishment, quote-unquote, are out to get him, are out to destroy him, are out to destroy his party, will not allow reform to survive, will not allow reform to contest an election in a fair way. As I say, you can think about what you like about that, and I've certainly got some views about that, but nonetheless, I think that would be a fair reflection of what his belief would be. And I think that there will be an ongoing... There's a sort of question which I don't know the answer to, which is, does this strengthen his resolve to try and beat them, all of these continued stories, or does it actually make the allure of the MAGA circuit and television appearances and Bitcoin and crypto So on all of the stuff that he can go and enjoy, a very nice life that he was enjoying before he got back in in 2024, does it make that allure and that pull all the stronger? And in a moment, we'll cross the Atlantic and Donald Trump and the latest posturing over Ukraine and the war there. Now time to thank our partner, HSBC UK. So what actually makes a bank account premier? Well, an HSBC Premier account gives you exclusive access to plenty of perks that make you feel extra special, including offers and rewards across travel, dining, shopping and experiences. That sounds great, but I'm particularly intrigued by the experiences bit. Yeah, through Premier Lifestyle, customers can now enjoy priority access and exclusive ticket allocations for major music tours, sports events and theatre productions. Nice. So it's not just about what your bank account does for your money. It's about the extras it can do for you too. Exactly. Everything's premier when your bank account is. Search HSBC Premier. At HSBC UK, you're backed by the current account switch guarantee. Ukraine has lost so many of its men and Russia too, but Russia is a massive country. Russia has millions of people. to 150 million people. Does that war end before you leave office? It should end soon. I think they actually both would like to see it end. But I think I find Zelensky to be more difficult to deal with than Putin. OK, I find Zelensky to be more difficult. Could that have anything to do with the fact that Donald Trump wants essentially for Zelensky to surrender, for Ukraine to give over land that Russia hasn't even conquered yet? And Zelensky, funnily enough, doesn't think that's a particularly alluring prospect and so keep saying no to the terms on which Donald Trump would like Zelensky to accept a peace deal with Putin I mean when you're on Putin's side I bet Putin is a pussycat to deal with and when you're giving Putin everything he wants as Donald Trump seems to be doing given his behavior of the last week I bet Putin is the easiest the nicest unkindest loveliest person to deal with, well we have yet more uh evidence if any were needed don't we John, that you know Putin has played Trump like a fiddle for the last two years and for the four years before that when Trump was president before um look I mean Trump clearly believes Trump has a sort of electoral prize obviously because with the midterms he thinks that Russian oil is some sort of potentially sort of flip to him and to the Republicans for the midterm elections. But again, and we've talked about it on the show many times over the last two years since Trump came back, you can hear it in Trump's voice again now Trump is frustrated and irritated and annoyed because he believes that the country he is able to pressure, i.e. the smaller country, does not give in to him and to Putin because they, in his head, are both stronger than Ukraine than the weak country and Trump can't compute he can't understand that in his mind Russia's bigger America's bigger therefore you little Ukraine should just do what we say which is a you know a deeply kind of um realist attitude to international relations a deeply cynical one it is you know the poor must suffer what they must it's always Trump's sort of analytical framework and what he doesn't spend a moment to it seems to to think about is that being easier to deal with i.e. Putin, is not the same as being more willing to make peace. The Ukrainians would love to make peace tomorrow. All the Russians have to do is stop fighting. I mean, at the very level, never mind even leaving the disputed land If they could get to an agreement on a ceasefire to simply pause where things are at the moment, that would at least be a start. But it's not something that Putin wants to give. And it's not something we can even see that Trump is especially asking Putin for. So as you say, John, it is not especially surprising that Trump finds Zelensky harder to deal with because Trump cannot understand that Zelensky simply doesn't submit to him. I say this kind of cautiously, but I do think that this is the one of the greatest stains on America and its history of foreign entanglements that far from standing up for the underdog or fighting communism, which it tried to do in Vietnam, albeit absolutely cack handedly and awfully and losing. this is about america siding with the aggressor siding with the autocrat siding with the kleptocrat i mean it is just incredible that a country that wanted freedom and that wanted democracy and that wanted to be firmly into the west's orbit is finding itself being treated as an enemy by the united states of america and i find it as a piece of american foreign policy incomprehensible that donald trump there is something bizarre about donald trump and vladimir putin which we've talked about before but it really feels to me like you know that song in the jungle book i want to be like you i think king louis donald trump wants to be the guy who's got the secrets of everything and just being king of his own jungle isn't enough he looks at vladimir putin thinks he's got everything i'd like to be an autocrat like that i'd like to have control over my country like that i'd like to have the longevity that you have i'd like to be able to control the industry and the firms and have people paying me off in their billions that would be my idea of heaven and he hasn't got it well i mean the remarkable thing john isn't it is this week is that russia has made precisely zero concessions in exchange for trump's decision to to lift sanctions yeah like none no like as far as we know trump didn't even ask for any right the white house hasn't said that he'd asked for any um and and on top of that at least you could say well if it's had some effect on on diesel prices in the u.s but no effect at the pump whatsoever average u.s diesel price 632 a gallon on thursday compared to 629 a week earlier so all he's achieved is given vladimir putin a multi-billion dollar bone a mil yes and also also a clear signal that the americans are not actually that interested in his stopping the fighting fundamentally i mean trump promised everyone will remember to end this war within 24 hours then it was by easter then it was a year then it was you know it was just yet another fantastical you know fragment of fiction in trump's head um but what trump has basically done is is actually inflame a war right is actually intensify basically a war that he promised to end because he's basically given a very firm signal to the russians that in exchange for some pretty paltry transactional politics he's not interested in exerting any pressure on the aggressor and that's been a theme that's gone on throughout the war look there are people who say and i think you know we should listen to this i think you know you and i both very much firmly of the view that you know ukraine needs to win this war there is obviously a perfectly legitimate critique to say this war has gone on for four years for four years it's longer than the first world war it's been extraordinarily bloody on both sides ukraine has defied all the expectations and even the expectations of trump a year ago him and vance basically saying you're losing if anything ukraine has been on the offensive but we kind of know look there's no end in sight and it isn't clear that the current strat you know this could go on for another two years or three years or who knows so it's probably legitimate to maybe say right do we need to adjust the strategy here or ask some tough questions about what the future might look like but that's not what trump is doing trump is just basically insisting the ukrainians acquiesce to him for american national economic interest whilst paying no attention whatsoever to clear ukrainian economic and political and security interests which obviously is just absurd the thing that kind of puzzles amazes bewilders me is that you look at trump he is a proud man he wants to be seen as a winner and he's being treated as an absolute schmuck by putin who just walks all over him who humiliates donald trump donald trump says there's going to be an energy ceasefire and russia goes and pummels the ---- out of ukrainian power plants and leaves you know hundreds of thousands of people sitting in dark unheated rooms because of it and again and again Putin is just laughing at Donald Trump and Donald Trump like some pathetic lapdog says oh I'm going to come back for some more because I really love you Vladimir it makes no sense at all but you know look it's not about any longer Donald Trump finding a way to pathway to peace which was a noble ambition and I think he's sincere when he talks about the thousands of lives being lost and how awful it is but he has come down on russia's side now and that is a judgment that he's made and that is a judgment he will be judged by do you know what i love you vladimir in russian is john well i i look forward to you explaining to it uh vladimir okay for any russian listeners no they're not allowed please mark lewis goodall just do it one more time who needs duolingo when you've got lewis goodall we'll be back in just a moment so we're thinking about having a new kind of section on the podcast i don't know how long it will last it might be quite short but i think it's russian lessons with lewis no it's not going to be russian lessons with lewis it is zakaria watch katie zakaria is turning out to be the gift that keeps on giving uh we saw her first press briefing as donald trump's press secretary where it seemed that she'd only just learned to read and now she's done an interview with the friendliest of friendly fox hosts sean hannity which didn't go that brilliantly when hannity started berating her about only taking questions from three news outlets, all of them friendly. This was Katie Zakaria's explanation. I think it's been mixed, Sean, because they've said I only took questions from conservative outlets. However, the Daily Mail is not known to be a conservative outlet or friendly to conservatives. So I do challenge that narrative. And then, as I should have, I ended the conference And I left as as I believe, given the fact that I'd been on the job less than maybe eight hours and had a briefing book in the morning. I feel like I did my very best, Sean, to deliver for the American people that day. What's Sean about? What's she saying? I don't know. I mean, honestly, if the Daily Mail isn't right wing, they've spent an awful lot of money upsetting the wrong people, haven't they? Yes. Had she ever read the Daily Mail, I wonder. Well, it is a broad church, to be fair. It's full of people who think that immigration's too high, ranging all the way to people who think it's far too high. So I suppose, you know, in a way, in a way, she's kind of right. Yeah, it's a really tough audience when you're, you know, when the only people you're taking questions from are from the Daily Mail and from Fox and Breitbart. They'll be pissed off, won't they? Basically being suggesting they're lefties. I know. Paper which backed the Nazis in the 30s. Oh, oh dear. The Rothermeers won't like that. Never mind. Never mind. We'll be back next week. We'll see you then. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. The News Agents podcast is brought to you by HSBC UK, opening up a world of opportunity. This has been a Global Production.