Whiplash: A Non-horror Horror Movie

One of the funny things is I watched the entire thing and I was taken away. My mom has never finished the movie because she just can't get through it. It's too gruesome. It's too, you know, it's too much for her. And I think that really is just too mean. It's just too mean. I push people beyond what's expected of them. I believe that is an absolute necessity. I want to be one of the greats. Hi, welcome to the Real Generation Gap. I'm B.J. Kang. I'm Fred Satili. And the movie we're reviewing today is the 2014 film Whiplash, a horror story of ambition and blood. A young drummer's ambitions for greatness is challenged when his university's top jazz instructor uses harassment and abuse to push him. Nice intro. You really do that well. Yeah. What a horror story it was. What a horror. I had no idea what to expect when I originally saw this 10 years ago. It was interesting to me that they re-released it into the theater. And I never even thought of that. But then I realized that other movies had been re-released also. You know, this is the first time I went to a theater to see something I'd seen before. And just like when you go to the house where you grew up and the house is a lot smaller than you remembered and the neighborhood's a little bit different or whatever. It was that way with me with this, too. The movie seemed shorter, I guess, because I knew what was coming. In the original, the drama was real stretched out, you know, 10 years ago. And it was a horrifying ending and everything. This time, since I knew it was going to happen, it kind of compressed it. Yeah. This is not the first time I've watched it either. But I did. But I thought it would be really fun to review this movie, especially since they're having a re-release in theaters. And, you know, I've never really heard about it from, you know, a drummer's perspective before. So I thought, you know, hearing it from someone who is experienced, you know, on the kit like you are, we can add probably a lot more depth to, you know, just any other typical review, because this is a very well, you know, critically acclaimed movie. But let's see what new we can get from it. Well, I guess I better introduce myself to the audience. And and it is true what he says. I am a classically trained drummer. I read music. I've had hundreds of students over the years. And I joined the Musicians Union when I was 16 years old. I took lessons from lots of different teachers and can pretty much play anything, any style or fit in anywhere. And over time, I have done lots of different stuff, stuff I never thought I would do when I originally had my training. They didn't have reggae yet. They didn't really even have rockabilly, really, although they did. But I wasn't trained that way. So when the Stray Cats came along, it was like, what's that guy doing? I don't know how to do that. You know, it took me a little time to catch up to that little trend. Yeah. But this movie is focused on the Schaefer School, a jazz school. It's it's the best school in the country, the hardest, you know, to get entry into only the elite go there, that kind of thing. This is what's portrayed in the movie. And what you don't realize is that J.K. Simmons, the instructor, is an insane tyrant. And his goal is to push everybody to their absolute limit in the hope of creating a legendary performer. And he cites Charlie Parker, Buddy Rich. Well, Buddy is another story. Yeah, but absolutely one of the greats of all time. But I have a caveat with that. But he says that if Charlie Parker hadn't been embarrassed early on, he wouldn't have practiced so hard to become the incredibly great legend that he was. And he felt that everybody had to go through this fire, this, you know, gauntlet of hell to really get to where they've paid their dues and they've had the hardship. And so he sees in the young man some amount of potential. And he decides to, like, beat him into it. You know, it almost reminded me of Michael Jackson's father, right? Michael Jackson had the real abusive father. He sort of tortured him into being great. So I guess there is that kind of mindset, but that's not in me. So my philosophy is have fun, play drums. And when I do have a student at the end of every lesson, I ask him, did you have fun? And if they if they say no, well, I'm never coming back because that's what we're here for. And the funny part of it, it was reflected in the movie. He tortured these musicians, the brass players and everybody. He yelled at him and demeaned him. He cursed at him, you know. And then when it came time to do the show, he goes, hey, remember, guys, we're just out there to have fun. Go out there. Everybody was like, if I make one wrong note, this guy's going to stab me in the eye, you know? And he even said it like I'm going to eat your eyes. You know, it was a real weird bipolar personality disorder that he had, and he was getting away with it. Everybody was so blessed to be in his top level swing band that they would do anything to remain there. And that's terrible. Yeah, this kid really paid the price. I mean, he just was insulted and embarrassed and demeaned and every possible thing. And he worked so very, very hard for perfect excellence. But it was never quite good enough. One of the things that struck me was he practiced till his hands bled. And I had done the same thing. Really? And in fact, even all the way back in high school, I would go in and I would show Ron Lorman my blisters and he would show me his blisters. And, you know, oh, you're taped up today, you know? And we used to say, you know, if blood ain't flying, you ain't trying. That was brought out. I mean, he just practiced till he bled, you know, and that was terrible. The movie's not really about playing the drums. You know, I have heard that criticism before that it's not so much of a music movie, but much more kind of like a sports movie. You know, it's more about sort of the journey, you know, the drive and sort of the drama that goes behind getting great at something much less than it is about, you know, that specific something they're getting great at. Right. This could have been it could have been about a quarterback or a relief pitcher, you know, place kicker or what it could have been. It could have been the same movie in a completely different venue. But both of these guys did such a phenomenal job. Yeah. J.K. Simmons is just I mean, he's a monster at the monster level. He he won. He did win an Academy Award for this film. Best supporting actor. Yeah. And God, I hated his guts. You know, and when somebody can make you hate him, that's a good Hector. And and it it contradicts what I normally say. I always say yelling is not great acting. I could yell and throw a tantrum. Yeah. I mean, right out of nowhere, like I get this, you know, and it's because it's like the sensitive acting that sucks me in and everything. But he yelled every single word, except for one little one little moment where he conned him. Right. He softened up for a minute. Suck him in. Yeah. Then, you know, he gave him the knife. Right. But his yelling was absolutely superb. And Miles Teller, right. He was very convincing as a drummer. Really? I mean, it really looked to me like he was playing all that stuff. That was a question I wanted to ask you, because I know Miles Teller is not like a drummer in real life. But he's somewhat he's somewhat of a drummer. Uh-huh. But he's not that guy. Yeah. But boy, he sure looked like he was that guy. And they showed him practicing his blast beat like super fast, right hand and right foot together, like a windup toy. Yeah. And it was like, man, that's ballistically fast. You know, only the craziest speed metal blast beat drummers can do stuff like that. And boy, he sure looked like he was doing it to me. This film is a masterclass in like phenomenal acting and not just like, you know, the protagonist, but also the antagonist, obviously. Oh, yeah. And I feel like one of the reasons why you felt like the movie was so short, you know, like shorter than the first time you watch it is because there's not a single moment that's wasted. You know, every moment, every scene of the movie has purpose. Every scene of the movie adds on. It contributes. It's it's valued in its own. And so it's like, you know, a lot of movies you watch today, like, you know, they almost two hours, 30 minutes runtime a lot. You know, a lot of them just feel like they're dragging on, you know? I mean, remember how you felt with Dune? Yeah. Dune or Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes, remember? Oh, yeah. Like it was dragging on. This movie feels impeccably short because not a single moment feels like it drags on. It really is edgy or see either rushing or dragging. Right. Right. You know about that. Not many people know about the pocket, but that's a whole nother thing. Yeah. You know, when you talk about the acting, it was one thing when these two guys were at each other. Yeah. But there were other scenes that were very cool. This young man, before he before he was sucked into this web of hell, he attempted to have a relationship with a nice young girl. And they started out like a like a boy and girl do, you know. And after a while, he said, I have to devote myself to this 100 percent. And it's not going to be fair to you. And we're going to end up resenting each other. And then when it got to the point later in the movie where he was really being put to the test, he called her and he said, look, I'm going to do this all or nothing performance. I kind of like you to be there. And time had gone by now. And she said, well, I have a boyfriend now. For him, the realization, it wasn't that he was sad. It was that he like really knew he was alone. Yeah, man. There's nobody now. His father tried to back him up, but even the rest of his family, they were jocks. Yeah. And they were like, well, whatever you understand, like we play the drums, you know, boom, boom, boom, you know, you're beating the drums or something. And he really realized that, you know, he had cut himself off from everything so completely that he was going to be alone out there. I mean, even a boxer has a corner man. Yeah. But for this, it was really a personal like you. You really the empathy for him was so strong. And the and the hatred for his instructor was so strong, at least in me, and I don't know anybody that saw this movie. I didn't feel that way. Yeah. Like if you ever wanted somebody to win, you wanted this guy to win. Yeah. And in the end, the way he did was so dramatic and unexpected. He got revenge. Yeah. Upon his teacher, you know, and his teacher tried to to sabotage the performance even. But he was like, man, I'm built to handle anything. And in the end, he did overcome. And I think in great stories, overcoming your obstacles is like always the the protagonistic thing, right? And to overcome your obstacle. And he did it in fantastic dramatic style. I just think it's a one of a kind movie. The first time I saw this movie was, I think, like around 2018. Like it was a good time after it came out. I saw it at home. My mom put it on for me, you know, thought that was a good movie. And one of the funny things is I watched the entire thing and I was taken away. My mom has never finished the movie because she just can't get through it. It's too gruesome. It's too, you know, it's too much for her. And I think that really speaks to me. This is too mean. I think that really speaks to like just how well the movie is. Like it really builds that feeling of anxiety. It's visceral, you know? Oh, yeah. Yeah. When I went to see this in theaters, you know, there's a lot there's a lot of people who had, you know, of course, seen it before, you know. And so in the first scene where he's sort of, you know, chewing out Neiman and really, you know, emotionally abusing him, they're all they're laughing a little bit, you know, because they knew what to expect. But come that second time where he really, you know, he lays into Neiman. Once again, no one was laughing. It was all quiet in theater. Everyone was once again afraid. Everyone was once again tense. And I think that's really speaks to sort of like the dominance that, you know, J.K. Simmons really portrays in this role here. You know, in this movie, he makes you afraid. It's it's horrifying, you know? Right. Yeah. Yeah. You're afraid watching it. Yeah. You know, you really identify with this poor student and not only him, but other people in the band. Yeah. At one point, he says, everybody stop. One of you horn players is playing out of key. You're out of tune. Yeah. Which one of you is it? Who's playing out of tune? They're like, they're just frozen. Well, why would you want to admit that? And why would you you know what I mean? You might not know. Like, it's a minefield, right? Yeah. And he says, oh, let's just hear just the saxophones. No, it's not you. Let's let's hear the brass or whatever. And then at one point, he says to one of the students, he goes, you are you playing in tune? And he says, I don't know. Because you don't even know if you're playing to get out. You're out of the band. You get the hell out of here. This is a guy. He's it's college. He's paying. It's music lessons. Right. And he tells a guy, get out, you know, and he insults him, you know, in every way imaginable. When the guy finally leaves the room, he turns to one of the other players. He goes, it was you that was out of tune. You're a little flat. Anyway, everybody ready? You know, like it's like, why did you do that to that kid? He was fine. You know what I mean? It's like almost like a Roman thing. Like they just pick somebody out of the line and execute them. Yeah. So like everybody else, you know, like the level of cruelty of that. Yeah. I mean, to say it was like a Roman thing. I mean, like he basically had just like, you know, executed one of them to send a message to the rest. Like, I'm not afraid to to push you, to break you and to just, you know, execute you, you know? Right. Yeah. You're all this vulnerable. You're seconds away from just unreasonable victimization. Yeah. There were so many elements of that violent reprisals for tiny infractions. You know, he pitted one against the other. They had the scene where he brought in two other drummers. Yeah. He said, we're going to keep rotating you three guys. So I pick which one I like. And he honed in on an aspect of each of them to like abuse them emotionally. For like Neiman, he kept like bringing up the fact that like his mother, he he got his guards down, his defenses down by asking about his life. And Neiman made the mistake, you know, of being vulnerable and telling, you know, my mother left when I was a young age. And he just kept saying that, like your mother left because like, you know, you weren't a good enough drummer, like you just didn't cut it. Right. And for like the other student, he kept like picking on the fact that he was gay. The other one, he just randomly picked on the fact that he was like Irish or something, you know? Yeah. It was just this constant, a mental and emotional abuse and manipulation, you know? And he had them all like on this leash that they just couldn't break from. You know, they all wanted to be great. And so they all had to just take it from him. Too high a price to pay. Yeah. I would have been out the first day. You know, that's another aspect that really wanted I wanted to talk to you about. I was like, how did you feel about the soundtrack in this movie from, you know, someone who is classically trained? Like you said, how did you feel about, you know, the music that was being chosen and chosen and, you know, played throughout this movie? I never played caravan. But my mother did. Really? My mother was a pianist and a very good organist. You know, she had a two octave pedal board and she had a two level keyboard. And she used to literally practice when I was growing up. She'd be playing these swing songs and everything, stuff from the 40s. And when I saw this the first time, I realized I had never played caravan. And of course, I had never played whiplash. But that's like unknown. Yeah. You know, but caravan was the star of the movie. And you can play that at any level. Like you can play that very simply as the drummer. And you can play like an absolute maniac like he did. And it's interesting that it's the same chart. You know, they put the chart in front of you. This is the speed. This is the you know, where the breaks are. These are the changes are. And then what you do to modify your own playing. I often say that drummers, they're expected to keep time and they're expected to be very dependable. But the little tricky stuff that they throw in, most of it is like unnoticed and unknown. They're entertaining themselves, but they make the beat strong and then they add a little complication that they can do. And that's just for them. The audience isn't really real. They just see you keeping time. Yeah. And usually a lot of the rest of the band does. If you have some really hip other players usually are connected at the hip with the bass player. He knows what you're doing and you know what he's doing. You know, and a lot of times it can be that way with the pianist, but not usually with the horn guys, you know, not usually with the brass guys or, you know, their soloists, you know. Yeah. They just want you to be that steadfast thing. They don't really understand the intricacies of all the crazy stuff that you're doing. And it's it's fun to teach people how to make their playing more interesting and more spicy. The the the movie itself did not have a heavy duty soundtrack. Yeah. Most of the music was, you know, in the music that they played. Right. And I think that, you know, obviously that's for a purpose. It's a it's a movie about, you know, a band. Tiny snippets. Yeah. They didn't even show a whole the band perform a whole song. It wasn't like, you know, you saw this great big thing like the Tonight Show band and they did a song start to finish. And you were like, wow, it was great. It was they just snippets. You know what went wrong? Things that went wrong. Yeah. A lot of practice parts. It wasn't really a music movie at all. But that'd be like your one criticism of the movie that like despite it being having amazing acting, you know, a really great plot that for a movie about, you know, music, it's not a whole lot about music. It wasn't about music. Yeah, it would be wrong to criticize it for that reason. That would be a mistake on my part. If I said, well, I wanted to hear the band play a few songs. Well, I didn't write this movie. Yeah, I didn't. So you take it for what it is. OK, and they made a horror story and they just did it in this very unusual environment. Yeah, very unusual. Yeah, that was like the what I had gotten like the first time I watched it. I was, you know, at first I was like, oh, it's a movie about like a drummer. You know, it's like, yeah, you know, it didn't seem so interesting at first. But like once you really get past, like that first scene really gets you right away because like the atmosphere is built where he's practicing in that room alone and Fletcher comes in and immediately like that really great acting really takes control where you can tell by, you know, the way that they speak, you know, the body language that Fletcher is this really important guy that Miles is desperately trying to impress. And that there's something about Fletcher where, yes, you can see that he is a teacher and he's trying to guide people, that there's something off about him right from that first scene. And I would say insatiable. Yeah. And you're hooked. You know, you're not going to make it. You're never going to get this guy, I think, because he even says in the movie, he goes, you know what? The two worst things you can say to somebody. Good job. Yeah. Because then they don't strive to be better. Yeah. Got to beat them down every time. Yeah. Make them fight back every time. And I'm not like that in life. I tell people, even if it's not so great, I think, you know what, really, you know, yeah, it was really good. And I try to do it with encouragement rather than the carrot instead of the whip. I don't know how you want to put it. And I do think that, like, because of sort of the unlikely sort of setting, you know, that a lot of people are not probably, you know, familiar with that. There's a lot of probably aspects about the film that you're going to be surprised to see that you're going to be unexpected. You know, a lot of the film honestly caught me. The first time I saw it caught me by surprise. And even like the second time I saw it were there are some parts of the film where you delightfully will not know what will happen next or you are, you know, caught by surprise. And, you know, that's very enjoyable. It is because it's a horror movie. Yeah. If you want to be revolted, if you want to be truly angry at the at the screen. Yeah. This movie will take you there. Now, I'll tell you one little thing. OK. You mentioned the very beginning. The movie starts out with him playing like mad, right? The whole audience sees him playing like mad. But in reality, the technique that he's doing right there is very, very simple. Really? Yeah. It just looks and sounds impressive, but it's just one little easy technique. Now he's doing it at a good at a good high speed and he's playing loud. Yeah. So if you did it a little slower and a little softer, it might be not quite so impressive because he was doing it so fast and loud. But when one of my young students, I said to him that beginning scene, what is he doing there? And he goes, oh, that was nothing but rolls and accents. That's exactly right. So this week, practice your rolls and accents because you'll be able to knock out your friends. Yeah. People come over your house. Oh, let's let's see you play that. If you do what he did and you can, you know, you have to be. You have to practice a little bit of drumming trivia right there. Yeah, that's cool. Nothing, nothing more than rolls and accents. And then when he said to him, don't stop. Let's hear your rudiments. The kid didn't play rudiments. So it was kind of like, OK, well, somebody wrote this few filmers. Yeah. That kind of thing. And that was throughout the movie. There was, you know, some of that. Yeah. You know, speaking about the writing, the writing is very is amazing. A good actor really has to depend on the script. You know, it's really just like a good script is only shown through and through its actor and a good story. Symbiotic. Yeah. Yeah. And so one of the things that I did a little trivia behind it when I did some research was that when Fletcher tells that story about Charlie Parker having a symbol thrown at his head, the actual story goes was that whoever I don't remember who it was, whoever Joe Jones, Joe Jones. Yeah. Joe Jones didn't throw a symbol is that he dropped a symbol on the floor to like sort of, you know, grab his attention or just to make a loud bang and sort of like this sharp sort of, you know, hey, listen to me. You didn't you didn't do great. But he dropped that symbol. Fletcher always tells a story as he threw the symbol at Charlie Parker's head, and that really shows to his character where Fletcher has this really twisted sort of like interpretation of how greatness is made, that he's going to twist these stories. Or a chair at one of the kids. He did. He threw a chair. Exactly right. And he goes, like, why do you suppose I threw a chair at your head, Neiman? Like he's he's asking Neiman to like, obviously, because I want to push you. You know? Yeah. He's asking Neiman to approve of his barbaric action. You know, it's like saying I hit because I love it's like if you can't see why I just threw a chair at you and you're not able to see how it relates to like, you know, symbol being thrown at Charlie Parker, then like, you know, you're not meant for greatness the same way where he said, you know, a great drummer would have never been discouraged by what I did. And that writing is impeccable. You know, Ginger Baker's no longer with us, but throwing something in him would have been a real bad idea and something to Buddy Rich would have been a real bad idea. Yeah. You know, because those guys were both tyrants. Yeah. You know, and while listening to you talk about like all these really great drummers, I realize it's kind of like a film and an aspect of the film that's missing a little bit. It was like the whole movie is about drumming, but there's not a whole like, you know, their little, you know, talks about Buddy Rich and Charlie Parker. There's not a whole lot of talking about like this, this world. This movie is supposed to serve as an introduction for a lot of people to this world of jazz and drumming. And there's not a whole lot of this love shown for drumming and jazz music, you know, and I feel like that's an aspect of the film that might be missing a little bit. Well, that's a real shame. Yeah, because drummers are a brotherhood. Yeah. There is no jealousy in drumming. It doesn't seem like that at all, because, you know, those alternates really seem like they hated each other. Right. Yeah. He pitted them against each other. Yeah. But but I've met a lot of really famous drummers. And they're all quick to like not only teach you what they know, but learn what you did. You know, wait a minute. What did you just do? What is that? I do it this way. Oh, I never did it that way before. So that was right, left, right, right, left, left, right, right, left, right. Like, you know, and you see him like working out your thing. It's like, oh, my God, this guy's a big star. He's he's doing my shit. Yeah. You know, those kind of aspects, none of that stuff was brought up. This was just a fight of wills. Yeah. This was a battle of wills and a battle of stamina. Yeah. And a battle of resilience. I think you said in the in the intro was a horror story of ambition and blood. Yeah. Ambition of blood. And he did bleed. Yes, he did. And any drummer that hasn't bled didn't even try, you know, because you do. Yeah. You wear through, you know, the movie was not about music. It was not about drumming. It was just just a matter, like you said, a battle of wills. And the reason that it's the masterpiece and you recommended it is because it truly is haunting. It truly is revolting. I mean, you don't leave the theater going like, hey, this movie is stunning and horrifying. You know, as you go home, you need to have some comfort food. Yeah. I mean, it's like, I'm going to go home. I'm going to have a little ice cream. You know, hopefully everything will be OK. Drive a little slower. That scene where the truck smashed into his car, even though a giant tractor trailer smashed into his car, he still had to get to the gig on time and he crawled out of the wreckage. Fingers are broken. He went on stage with, you know, blood all over his face. Right. Hold the sticks. Yeah. It's like his two middle fingers, you know, were broken and he kept trying to play anyways. Yeah. You know, that's that's that really visceral, gruesome part is there's a surprising amount of blood and, you know, almost body horror that there is in this film, which is something you wouldn't expect out of like, you know, a music movie. Right. Yeah. Yeah. That doesn't happen at Jolly Hard. I hope not. No. And definitely not at Berkeley. Yeah. Anyway, I know I've overtalked this whole thing. And I think I just was so in love with, you know, you want to go ahead and go first rating a rate this movie. Rate this movie. Rate it as what? Man, it's so hard to really, you know, I can't give them all a 10, right? I mean, you have it. You definitely haven't given them all 10. If you feel like it is a 10, then go ahead. No, because it's almost a genre of its own. I'm going to go 10. OK, 10. It's a have to. It's a have to movie. Yeah. Impeccable pacing, impeccable writing and even better acting, like completely enraptured by the performances being given on screen. And honestly, a very well like structured movie. The only aspect I would say that I wish was shown a bit more that could have added depth was, you know, a more love of the music, maybe a little bit more into that world to really add on to. This is something worth bleeding over, you know. But regardless, all, you know, still almost perfect without it. So I would say I give it a nine out of ten. But definitely have to see it. You know? Yeah. Yeah. There was no pretty moment. Yeah, no. It was it was just all horror. Yeah. Have to see, though. Well, thanks for bringing this. You know, I would have been self-conscious to bring this. You could see how self-conscious I am. I would have been self-conscious about bringing this self-serving movie forward. So I was thrilled when you did. Yeah. And the fact that they re-released it in the theaters. It proves it's just that good of a movie. OK. You know, if it's still in theaters by the time this video comes out, please go see it. You probably deserve to be yelled at by Fletcher if you don't. Right. Right. Once again, thank you very much for coming to watch this episode of The Real Generation Gap and leave a comment down below. You know, what's the most horrifying non-horror movie you've ever seen? For me, this is definitely one of them. And I think it's the same for you, right, Fred? Absolutely. Yeah. So make sure to leave a comment down below and make sure to talk to us. And we hope to see you on the next one. Thank you very much.