Texas Revolution 185th Anniversary: The Birthplace of the Republic of Texas

Good morning everyone. Welcome to this webinar from the Texas Historical Commission about the birthplace of Texas. My name is Ken Wise. I'm the host of the Texas History Podcast Wise About Texas and I'm pleased to be part of this event. I want to say thank you to the Texas Historical Commission for allowing me to participate. 185 years ago today, Texas was born. Just like July 4th, 1776 is the birth date of the United States because that's when our Declaration of Independence came into being, so too March 2nd, 1836 is that same birth date for the Republic of Texas. But though it is important for a nation or a state to have a date on which to celebrate its origin, the total picture of history is bigger and more complicated. The Texas Revolution didn't just arise all of a sudden. There were events that gave rise to the dissension among the population. There were changes in laws, changes in leaders, even a big change of mind on the part of one leader in particular that led to the problem with the Texians. There were even different factions among the Texians. Some wanted war, some wanted to actually go invade Mexico, some wanted to negotiate, some just wanted peace at whatever cost. But when Santa Anna changed his mind and his bearing from Federalist to Dictator, the die was cast, revolution was coming. And when the Mexican army tried to disarm the population of Gonzales, shots were fired and the revolution was on. But where did it really begin? Can we say for sure that there's one place where Texas is born? We're going to see if we can't figure that out today or at least make some progress. I'm joined today by Texas Historical Commission representatives from four of the important locations related to the Texas Revolution. And I'd like to introduce them now. And this is in no particular order arguing for any particular place. But we'll start with Kate Johnson from the San Jacinto Battleground. Helena Stoddart from San Felipe de Austin. Mark Osborne from Varner Hog Plantation in West Columbia. And Kevin Malcolm from Washington on the Brazos. And what I'm going to do is give each of these great panelists a few minutes to tell us why they think their site is the birthplace of the Republic. And then I'm going to throw out a few questions for the group for discussion and maybe even a little debate. But after that, we're going to spend some time answering your questions. So as you think of questions you'd like to ask the group on these subjects, please use the Q&A feature on this webinar to enter those questions. And we'll get to as many of them as we can. And you'll find the Q&A button on the bottom of your screen. So let's get started. And I'm going to ask Mark Osborne to start us off discussing the Varner Hog Plantation and West Columbia. Mark? Well, thank you, Judge Wise. So as a representative of the Varner Hog Plantation, I'm actually here to, even though members of the family that owned the plantation were much involved with Texas Independence, I'm here representing the town of Columbia, which is now West Columbia. So I'd like to begin with a very brief introduction to Columbia, perhaps the least well-known of the sites represented today. When we talk about Columbia in 1836, we're actually talking about two places. Marion, or Bell's Landing, founded in 1823 on the banks of the Brazos River, and Columbia, two miles to the west on an open prairie in 1826. Marion grew as a port town, while Columbia became an important economic and political hub for the growing plantation economy of the region. By the mid-1830s, large plantations had begun to use enslaved laborers to produce and ship sugar, molasses, bricks, and cotton. Businesses, churches, schools, large homes, and government buildings soon followed. Next slide, please, if I can get the there. So why Columbia? What made it the choice of capital following the Battle of San Jacinto, and after the provisional government had moved so much without finding a suitable capital? We've already established Columbia as an economic hub, but it was also an established political hub. In 1834, Columbia had become the seat of government for the local Mexican municipality. Leaders like Stephen F. Austin knew the town well, so much so that twice in December of 1835, committees met nearby and made the second and fourth recommendations for a Declaration of Independence. Most importantly, Columbia's citizens promised ample accommodations for both people and government, like the Amon Underwood House pictured here, but also the old Alcalde's office and all of the tables and chairs necessary for both houses of Congress. One historian has said that no other place other than maybe Nacogdoches at the time had, and I quote, sufficient house room to meet the emergency, end quote. We also find Gail Borden in Columbia in September of 1836 commenting in the Telegraph and Texas Register that a committee had been appointed to prepare necessary buildings and encouraged Congress to make Columbia the new capital. The next slide, please. From October 3rd to November 22nd, 1836, the first Congress of the Republic of Texas did meet in Columbia in a building similar to this replica that stands in modern-day West Columbia, and the Congress enacted legislation that was essential to Texas emerging from being a provisional idea to a fully formed fledgling republic. The first elected government of the new republic was seated here. Sam Houston was inaugurated as president with Mirabeau B. Lamar as vice president. The judiciary, the general land office, and postal system were established here. Texas's borders were determined, at least initially, and an official state seal was authorized and approved by Sam Houston on December 10th, 1836, among many other acts of legislation. In the end, Columbia was critical to the economic and political birth of what makes Texas, Texas. Thank you. Thank you, Mark. I'd now like to ask Kevin Malcolm from Washington on the Brazos to talk to us about why he may think Washington on the Brazos is where Texas was born. Thank you, Judge. As already mentioned, my name is Kevin Malcolm, and I represent Washington on the Brazos, where Texas became Texas. When we think about the founding of Texas, it is worthwhile to draw parallels between Texas independence and its closest relation, American independence. Jamestown and Plymouth Rock may be where the cultural roots of America can be found. Saratoga and New Yorktown may be the forging moments of America's military. New York, and later Washington, were indeed the first capitals, but none of these are known as the birthplace of America. Next slide, please. The federal government recognizes Philadelphia as the birthplace of America because it was there that the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were written and signed. It reasonably follows that the same would be true for Texas. It was in Washington on the Brazos that these momentous acts occurred. Furthermore, as the judge already indicated, the 4th of July is formally called Independence Day, but is also known as America's birthday. Given that today, March 2nd, is known as Texas Independence Day, it follows that today is also Texas's birthday. The only significant event of the Texas Revolution to occur on March 2nd happened here in Washington. When we insert the phrase birthplace of Texas into google.com, the following sources link that phrase to Washington on the Brazos. Wikipedia, Texas A&M University, tripadvisor.com, Encyclopedia Britannica, the Texas Historical Commission, YouTube, texastimetravel.com, underthelonestar.com, thedaytripper.com, and even out-of-state sources like the Coloradoan and the Oklahoman recognize Washington as the birthplace of Texas. In 1844, Herman Ehrenberg, Goliad massacre survivor and Texas Independence veteran, linked Washington and March 2nd to the birth of Texas. In 1915, while authoring the Washington Park Bill, Judge Sam B. W. Lowe said this about Washington, quote, to honor the spot where liberty was declared, the Republic of Texas was born, unquote. Next slide, please. In 1935, while preparing for Texas Centennial Celebration the following year, Governor James Paul Ferguson added this while referencing Washington, quote, we as patriotic Texans should save to posterity the beauty and glory of this memorable spot where first the birth of a new nation was announced to the world, unquote. My colleagues across the various sites of Texas history are not wrong to argue the importance of their sites. They surely are highly significant to our shared history, but there is only one birthplace of Texas, and that is at Washington on the Brazos. Thank you. Thanks, Kevin. I'm now going to ask Eleanor Stoddard from San Felipe de Austin to tell us about her site and why San Felipe might be the birthplace of Texas. Yes, I'd like to argue that San Felipe de Austin is obviously the birthplace of Texas, and more rightly, we have strong arguments that it was the birthplace of government, culture, and the military. So, San Felipe was the administrative center of Austin's colony, the first and most successful effort at recruiting and settling immigrants to Texas. The conventions of 1832 and 1833 were held here, as well as the consultation in November of 1835, which formed the first formal war government, declaring Texas as a standalone state of Mexico and vowing to remove a despotic national regime. From November 3, 1835, San Felipe served as the capital of the provisional government until the convention of 1836 met the following March of Washington on the Brazos. The government formed here was birthed into warfare and issued the solemn declaration as a justification for overthrowing Santa Ana's government. So, we had an early printing press since 1829, and we could circulate the news of the greater area and the world. Provisional governor Henry Smith initially argued that the government could not go somewhere that didn't have a printing press, as the business and effort of government had to be communicated. The reason why Santa Ana came here after the Alamo and not Washington on the Brazos was because this was the known political center of immigrant Texas. The Telegraph and Texas Register was published by Austin loyalist Gail Borden and ended up being the voice of the Texas Revolution. San Felipe was the hub of the Texas postal system until the revolution, and pretty much every major Texas historical figure passed through here at one time or another. There was no militia in San Jacinto, but there was here under Captain Mosley Baker. We've got two distinctive flags with military connotations that are directly associated with San Felipe. The constitution or 1824 flag and the Baker militia flag, which was proposed as a national banner by Stephen F. Austin in early 1836. Basically, San Felipe de Austin is the complete package. Even the Texas State Historical Association says, and I quote, the town generally called simply San Felipe was the unquestioned social economic and political center of the Austin colony. So I've got a few comments for my colleagues here. So West Columbia, San Felipe was the center of government in Texas long before Columbia was. Washington on the Brazos, we've got a stronger argument for being the birthplace of government than anyone else, seeing as Washington and the Brazos was only a temporary location. Plus all the meetings leading up to independence had already been held in San Felipe. In San Jacinto, 18 minutes, come on, the main work of forming Texas was already in place long before the battle. We don't call the site of one battle during the American Revolution, the birthplace of America. So thank you very much. Well, it appears shots have been fired. So on that note, let's go to the site of the final battle of the Texas Revolution, San Jacinto, and call on Kate Johnson to talk to us about why San Jacinto might be the birthplace of Texas. All right. My name is Kate Johnson. I'm the educator here at the San Jacinto Battleground site of the final battle of the Texas Revolution. My colleagues have made some really good arguments about the preeminence of their site and why they should be considered the birthplace of Texas, but they're all overlooking something that's very important. 1835 to 1836 is not the first time Texas declared itself independent. If we go all the way back to 1812 and 1813, the Gutierrez-McGee expedition led a rebellion against Spain. They had a string of military successes culminating in the capture of San Antonio on April 1st, 1813. And then a few days later, Gutierrez declared the province of Texas independent from Spain and drafted a constitution. So that might sound a little bit familiar with the Texas Revolution. However, that August, his army was defeated by royalists at the Battle of Medina, and the first Republic of Texas dies on the vine after just a couple of months. A couple years later, June 23rd, 1819 in Nacogdoches, a group of men, mostly very recent immigrants from the United States, organized a provincial government, declared themselves, declared Texas independence, and raised a small army under the command of Colonel James Long. But June 23rd isn't Texas Independence Day because Long was never able to back those claims up with a lasting military victory. He was eventually captured by Colonel Ignacio Perez and taken to Mexico City where he died in 1822. Then it keeps going. 1826, after a dispute with local authorities, Hayden Edwards, an early empresario, a contemporary of Stephen F. Austin, he decided he wanted his colony to be separate from Texas. And on December 21st, he declared independence from Mexico. But rather than stand and fight, his rebels fled to the safety of the United States, and the Republic of Fredonia is a footnote in Texas history rather than the start of something new. And these aren't the only examples of Texas declaring itself independent. Texas has done this a lot. What's different about 1836 is that after independence was declared, that nascent Republic of Texas was able to back those claims up with a decisive military victory, which is one here at San Jacinto. Without San Jacinto, the 1836 version of the Republic of Texas would have been just another failed rebellion. Words are great, and they're important, but you have to be able to back them up with action. None of those previous examples, which have a lot of parallels to these other sites, were able to back those words up with action. Sam Houston and the convention's words up with action here at San Jacinto. And that's why this is the birthplace of Texas. Great. Thank you, Kate, so much. And thanks to all the panelists for those excellent presentations. Those were very insightful. What I want to do now is ask a few questions generally to the group, although I may direct them to certain folks, about what y'all have just presented. And I'm going to remind everybody watching this live, the Q&A function, and it's a little chat box marked Q&A at the bottom of your screen, is a place where you can type questions to a panelist or to the group. And if you'll type those in there, they're being reviewed, and we're going to answer as many of those questions as we possibly can. So, as we go through this, please do so. And this first question I want to bring up is really just for the group. Can we say, when Texas, we're talking about the birthplace of Texas, do we say that Texas was born when the government was formed as an idea, when the government was proclaimed? You know, the Declarations of Independence of both 1776 and 1836 did what such documents always do, which is start a war. Is that the birth, or is it born on a battlefield? And I'll just let anybody that wants to jump in, jump in. I suppose the corollary follow-up question to that is, which government? I mean, San Felipe had their government in 1835, but that was an unelected government delegate who basically appointed themselves as the overseers of Texas and its future. It wasn't until 1836 in the convention that actual elected delegates from the people of Texas gathered together with the authority of the people from whom the rightful powers of government derive. So, I mean, it depends on which government we're talking about. Are we talking about the interim government? Are we talking about the government that was formally established by election following the ratification of the Constitution? It depends on what we're referring to as the government. Anybody else want to weigh in on this question? Well, I guess I'm going to say that, you know, San Felipe didn't really wait for permission, that they, you know, it was more that the ideas, they were fleshing out the ideas, they weren't really waiting for permission from anyone. So, the delegates choose, you know, back in 1835, the government. So, yeah, I think it happened a little bit sooner than the formal declaring of independence in 1836. I think all the groundwork was laid long before that. I would argue that the government of a state that doesn't exist. Kate, what were you going to say? I would argue that, as I pointed out, you can declare yourself independent all you want. That doesn't mean anything until you prove that there's any might behind it. The delegates were part of the consultation that were going on. So, they did have some formal representation of the greater public. To Kate's point, the Treaty of Belasco is a non-binding agreement. By your logic, the actual birthplace of Texas would be Chapultepec or outside New Mexico City when, in 1848, the government of Mexico, by virtue of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, actually recognized Texas as an independent nation separate from Mexico. I'm not arguing that the Treaty of Belasco is where Texas was born. That wasn't signed here at San Jacinto. It's not about words. It's about being able to back those words up. Texas proved at San Jacinto that it could defeat the Mexican army. Mexico was never able to come back and have a decisive, lasting military victory. Texas was born here. Until 1842, when they re-invaded the Republic of Texas and captured… Decisive, lasting military victory. That was a brief blip. Okay. They did it, what, twice? Three times? And yet, they kept going back. I will note that, in 1842, they took the district judge hostage, which is one of the great tragedies in Texas history, but that's a different discussion. So, the argument seems to be, well, if you can't back it up, then whatever you say doesn't matter. But, on the other side, it's, well, if a state is not a part of a… come into legal being in some sort, then it doesn't really exist. So, I'm going to throw this out there. I mean, there was an election in September 1836, and an organization of government with officials, for the first time as an independent nation, in Columbia. Why isn't it Columbia? Why? Because we had burned down. I think if our town hadn't burned down, we would have been the perfect site for this. Texas is already born by then. It can't be born twice. No, I'm going to say, I think all of it leading up to Columbia is, it's still an idea. It's still gestating. It doesn't get… and I'm going to run with this, that it's not until you have a real government formed that is now involved with foreign relations, you have a judiciary, you have this country, new country, actually formed and birthed, if you will, before anything before, it was just… even with a decisive battle, it was still an idea until Sam Houston and the rest of the government met and actually started putting a real country together. Well, you invalidate your own argument then by saying foreign relations, because the consultation at San Felipe in 1835, and then later, the convention at Washington in 1836, had representatives sent to a foreign country, the United States, as early as November 1835. So there's your foreign relations right there. And so, Columbia, you invalidate your own side by that argument, which is fine for me, because that basically goes to, it's either San Felipe or Washington on the process. Well, one of the… my day job as a court of appeals judge, one of the counties I represent as a justice is Chambers County, the county seat of which is Anahuac. So, if there were shots fired in Anahuac, there were government-esque activities in Anahuac, there were resolutions of a population near Anahuac. Why aren't we talking about Anahuac? Because I think for today, we are keeping it to these four sites. I'm always trying to stir something up. Well, one of the things that you hear a lot of people talk about is Texas as a state of mind, and I think someone actually uttered the phrase Texas as an idea earlier. If Texas is a state of mind, and certainly we saw independent-minded folks in Texas for many, many years before 1836, as Kate pointed out, can we legitimately say that Texas was really born in the spirit of the populace, going back a lot further than maybe we think? Maybe none of us are the birthplace. It was already born before any of us got involved. Well, I would also argue that this topic is concisely referring to the birthplace of the republic, not the birthplace of Texas as an idea. Texas is an idea, and I think many of us believe and embody the idea of the Texas mystique, but if we're talking about the Republic of Texas, we are talking about a very specific, concise idea of an independent republic that existed from 1836 until 1845. And given that, the first time a, quote, Republic of Texas is actually put down in name, in writing, signed by delegates who are elected by the authority of the people from which all governmental power derives is in Washington in 1836, when the Constitution is written and the preamble is written declaring the Republic of Texas is founded on this date period. What if we'd lost the revolution? Then we wouldn't be having this conversation. It would just be one of many failed republics. Gotta be able to win. So if it's signing a document, why aren't the other republics just as valid, the ones that Is it a signing of a document, or is there something besides that that can bring into being a republic? Two things can be true at once. A document can be signed, which indicates the birth, but in order for that to have legitimacy going forward, there has to be some sort of military backup. But just because we say, like, this document wouldn't carry any validity without military enforcement, that does not make the site of that military enforcement a birthplace. The birthplace is where the document was forged and signed. The military location, San Jacinto in this case, is where that was set in stone. So you're sort of arguing that the birth date of Texas, March 2nd, no one's arguing that. But you're saying that because that date, what happened was that the convention, that Washington becomes the birthplace. And I'm arguing that could be a really drawn out labor, let's be honest, six weeks. The birthplace is where that's actually backed up and reinforced. Well, if your birth date is on a specific date, I mean, the date where you are when that birthday is declared, I mean, if you're having a six week long labor, then that's not your birthday. Your birthday, March 2nd, is what happened on March 2nd, the Declaration of Independence was signed. There was that in Washington. It wasn't in San Jacinto. San Jacinto was nothing on March 2nd. It was a field between a bayou and a river. San Jacinto was nothing. Washington was an established town where the declaration was being written and signed by delegates elected by the people. Go ahead. I still think the consultation in November 1835, when you've actually got a formal war government, like that's huge right there. Okay, that's got to count for a lot. And I think that's an important part. Sure, absolutely. Overlooking. So, yeah, I want to throw in that, yeah, I still think we've got a pretty good argument for being the birthplace of Texas. When you're going this far and you're making stuff like that, you're well on your way to becoming Texas here. Let's look at something. Let's look at it from a different angle for a minute. We've looked at documents and battles. Let's look at it from a different angle. Let's talk a little bit about the people involved in the Revolution. Who were the most important people to lead, and were they at your site, or did they pass through, or have some sort of important position or activity at your site? Anybody? I think we've got... That and Sam Houston. Sorry, Kate. That's all right. I overcome it. That and Sam Houston. She started with Sam Houston, the birthday boy, born on this day in Virginia. We've got everybody. Everybody came through San Felipe, I think, except for Davy Crockett. He's the only one we can't trace. Who did come through Washington? Okay. Well, that's one person. We've got Travis here. We've got Austin. We've got a lot of big names here. We got Henry Smith. So, I think if you're talking for important people, San Felipe definitely claims that title. Well, and two names come to mind when we think about the founding of Texas, Stephen F. Austin and Sam Houston. To Eleanor's credit, Stephen F. Austin was based for his entire tenure there in San Felipe. So, she's got that to her credit. And Kate has Sam Houston. That was sort of the pinnacle of his significance in the Texas Revolution was that... What he bases his political legitimacy on. Right. Correct. But Stephen F. Austin, when he becomes a representative to the United States, is working on behalf of the government that is established in Washington on the Brazos. And Sam Houston doesn't actually become General in Chief of the Texas Army until formally declared so by the Convention of 1836, which is convened at Washington. And it's not until after he is appointed by the delegates that he takes his proper authoritative role under the civilian government as the General Commander in Chief of the Texas Army. And that's all happens here in Washington, where he is in residence at the time. But we'll point out Columbia had both Sam Houston and Stephen F. Austin, where Sam Houston becomes the first elected president of the new republic, and Stephen F. Austin wanting to be president, but being made Secretary of State. And eventually, unfortunately, very soon in December of 36, dies very, very close to Columbia. So, we can all claim one or both of Sam and Stephen. I'd also point out that Sam Houston wanted the capital of Texas to be in Washington on the Brazos, which is why it was moved here in 1842. That doesn't really have any relevance. I'd also like to make the comment that Stephen F. Austin was already in the United States long before he was declared by the convention. He was already off in the U.S. drumming up support for the cause. Right, but then he subservience himself to the authority of the convention at Washington once and then to the government that is appointed, the interim government that is declared in Washington after the fact. So, even he sees the legitimacy of the Washington government once it's been established. Yes, but he was already out there laying the groundwork for his support. I would argue that, well, Washington is where it's born, San Felipe is where it's conceived. Everything else is kind of window dressing. Oh, I'm sensing compromise here. Are we sensing compromise? Let me move on. We've got so many questions coming in from our viewers, and I've been trying to, it's going to be sort of an art rather than a science to curate these questions, but I'm going to do the best I can to get there as many of these as we can. Before I do that, let me tell everyone watching that we are going to put a live poll up, or we are not, our host, our technological wizard is, and you can vote for which of these four sites you think was the place where Texas was born. So, go ahead and do that while we get to these questions. I'm going to start for one directly. Now, these are all going to be good questions. They're going to be all over the place. Mark, this one's for you. I've read that sugar production really began in the 1840s, not the 30s. What's the best source to read on this? So, I did see that question, and thank you for that one. I, by the 1840s, sugar production was reaching its peak, but our first settler on the plantation site, Martin Varner, was producing sugar in his 10 years between 1824 and 1834. So, there was already sugar production. It wasn't at its height. I have, I am new to Brazoria County, so I have relied on a book by James Crichton, I'm going to say his last name. It's a fairly old edition of the narrative history of Brazoria County, but what he does in this history is go through, and there are really excellent charts of production over, you know, leading up to the Civil War. So, I would put that as a good source. Great. Here's an interesting question, and I'm going to take this one as the lawyer of the group, although Kevin's right behind me on that talent-wise, for sure. When the Republic of Texas joined the USA, why didn't it negotiate the right to subdivide into five states, and how would it be in its interest to do so? That's a very interesting question, probably a little bit outside the scope of this discussion, but we can, we still do have the right to divide into several states, and it's interesting to think about what Texas, of course, it would cease to become Texas at that point, but what, how would you divide Texas into several states, given the tremendous resources that we have? Okay, a couple more questions. If I had only one site to take my children to visit and learn the most of Texas history, what site would you suggest? There cannot be only one. You must visit more than one, so I would read as many books as you can, and then hit the road. All right, here's one that I learned most. To that point, the nice thing is we're all relatively close. You could do all four of our sites in two days, a weekend for sure. Definitely do it in a weekend, yep. So definitely make a road trip, make a plan, and come and see us. Yep, and it's a beautiful drive to all these spots, so it's really worth pursuing. Here's one for anyone that wants to comment, and I kind of want everyone to comment. The question is, do you think General Houston planned that spot? I'm going to interpret that question to mean, do you think Sam Houston intended to fight the Mexican army at San Jacinto, or was it somewhat accidental? This is a great, one of the great debates of Texas history. I will jump in there. I'm going to say yes to both. It is a bit of an, we know that Houston knew roughly where Santa Ana was. He was in New Washington, which is south of San Jacinto. He also felt pretty strongly that he was probably going to be trying to get to Lynch's Ferry, which is like a mile down the road from here. So he wanted to cut Santa Ana off somewhere along that road. It happened to be the best place to do it with San Jacinto, so yes to both. I think it's a little bit random that it ended up, as Kevin said, this was a cattle ranch, but it was based on what was geographically around here. The corollary to that question, what's the significance of the infamous or the famous wrong turn in the fork in the road where Sam Houston wanted to go one direction and his soldiers wanting to fight went the other direction? How do you see that factoring into Sam Houston's decision at San Jacinto? Well, it depends on where he was in that column, and nobody really knows. He claims he was at the always planning on doing that. Some of his men claim that he was kind of loitering towards the back and that they just started marching south, and he chose to follow the army as opposed to trying to turn them around. We don't really know. Thank you. Anyone? Well, I'll go ahead and broaden it, as Kevin suggests, because there's another question referencing New Kentucky, which of course is the location of what we now call the Witchway Tree, where the army turned towards San Jacinto. What are the other panelists' thoughts on the army's turn towards San Jacinto versus Sam Houston, perhaps stated, perhaps not, desire to drag Santa Ana's army to the United States? Yeah, that's a harder one for me to comment on, so I'm going with Kate's interpretation. We were just trying to slow them down. We did what we could, burn the town, so that was our contribution, unfortunately. Mark, do you have anything? All right, here's a question, and I'll see if anyone knows this. This is sort of an archaeological question. Can anyone discuss the making of cannonballs or shot on the banks of the Brazos River in connection with the military? All right. I can. Okay, here's an interesting one from a seventh grade class from Johnson City watching this. Johnson City out in the beautiful hill country of Texas. The seventh grade class has decided that San Jacinto makes it the birthplace because of the battle. They are really smart. But we would like to hear the thoughts of the panel on what rebellion, meaning what of the other rebellions that we've mentioned today, would be considered the biggest failure? There's an interesting one for you. I'd argue the Long Expedition, myself. Remind us what that is. The Long Expedition was in 1819 to 1820, and they failed to grab any significant foothold other than in Nacogdoches. That was a group of folks predominantly out of Mississippi who came over to Texas under James Long to attempt to wrest Texas or the United States, and never really made it out of eastern Texas, never really got close to San Antonio, the sort of center, the big prize in Texas. That would be my thought. I kind of go the opposite direction. I think it's the Gutierrez-McGee one, because they did have so much initial success. I mean, they took San Antonio, they took the governor there. I feel like they had the best launching pad to actually getting something to stick, and so there seems like a bigger kind of collapse because they got closer. I was going to say Gutierrez-McGee as well. Although, you know, you could also say Anahuac. Things might have been different had that succeeded. Interesting. Okay, here's a good question. Did any historical figure of the time, for example, a San Houston or someone like that, ever state what they considered to be the birthplace of Texas? Well, Herman Ehrenberg was a survivor of the Goliad Massacre, and he linked the—I need to pull up a quote here—he linked the birthplace of Texas or the birth of Texas to Mark II. He said, quote, in his book, which was published in 1844, and he was a veteran of the Texas Revolution and survived the Goliad Massacre, he says, quote, on the 2nd of March, our first Congress had solemnly proclaimed independence of the former province of Texas from the Mexican Confederation and declared the district lying between the Rio Grande, Sabine, and the Red River from this day would take its place among the nations of the earth under the name the Republic of Texas. Today was as stormy as was the jubilation that swept through the colonies and the new star that waved over Goliad for the first time today trembled on the blue flag, but barely had it waved from the walls in its splendor for an hour when suddenly a new attack of the storm hurled the flag, star, and staff in a terrible world down into the fort. This was in fact an evil omen, but what state, just springing into life, will not have to battle against reverses for the sake of independence? After a short time, the blue banner again waved among the raging elements, unquote. Go ahead. I was going to say that his illusions, and this was all written in German, by the way, he published this in Munich, I believe, he went back to Germany after his time in Texas, but his reference to just springing into life is a direct allusion to birth, and his celebration, or his references to the mass celebrations that had spread all across the provinces is indicative of key links, the birth of Texas to March 2nd, and the events that occurred in Washington with the Congress. All right, let me, oh go ahead, Kate, were you about to say something? I was going to say that for kind of all the figures who were involved in it, at least anybody who was writing kind of at that time, it would have been really hard for them to know that this was the start of something versus was it going to be a failure, was Mexico going to be able to retake it, so I don't think you really see anybody at the time who was writing contemporarily, because I don't really know how it's going to end yet. Histories were looking back at something. Yeah, good point, good point. All right, here's an interesting question, and I'm going to say something about it and then throw it to the panel. At what point in time was the organized government actually able to enforce its decrees and laws? So organized government is purposely vague, able to enforce its decrees and laws, and what I will say about that is before, after San Jacinto, but before the election, ratifying the Constitution or the organization of the government at Columbia, there was a court that was functioning. It was created purportedly for a specific purpose, but was kept open and functioned, so the people certainly thought that Judge Benjamin Cromwell Franklin had some authority, but there was no Constitution or laws at the time, which is an interesting dilemma. So what are y'all's thoughts on that? When were we able to really up and run as a legal republic? Well, definitely after the drafting and ratification of the Constitution, March 17, 1836. One of the issues with the government that comes out of the consultation of 1835 at San Felipe is that there's a whole big mess, and a lot of it is not just questions of legitimacy, but it's also a lot of political posturing on the figures themselves. Who's actually in charge? The governor fires the cabinet, the cabinet impeaches the governor. There's all this back and forth about what is and isn't legitimate, but with the establishment of the Constitution, you have an actual functional government, which then Sam Houston recognizes as legitimate government. As commander-in-chief, he reports then to Burnett and De Zavala as the interim government, and they are the ones who set up the framework for the election later in 1836 to actually have a declared government that is then in residence there at Columbia. Go ahead, Eleanor. Yeah. San Felipe had already gone through this before, these weird in-between times, because remember when Mexico first declared independence, it took a while for all the laws to be codified. You have these situations where everybody's not really sure what rules to be following, how things are going to run. It's just another period of waiting to have it all figured out, if that makes sense. It definitely took a while, and some would argue we're still figuring it out. All right. I want to say hello to the fourth graders from Yorkshire Academy asking about Philadelphia, comparing that to Washington, which Kevin did earlier. Here's an interesting question. Very astute. Very astute. Well, they didn't decide one way or the other. They just mentioned it. Okay, here's one. Since the birthplace of Texas is debatable, is there a location where you would say the death of the Republic of Texas took place, or the beginning of the end of the republic? Where was the annexation ceremony held? Here in Washington. And life imitates art. It's sort of poetic that the birth of the republic and the death of the republic happened in the same place. It was in 1845 here in Washington that the Congress of formally transfers power over to the United States. So you could argue that the death of the republic occurs here in Washington. And again, you know, poetry imitating real life happens here as well. Are you planning on dying where you were born? Again, art imitates life. It's poetic. This goes all the way back to sort of biblical precepts and things like that. Well, some might argue the death occurred in the treasury because we had no money. Okay, here's an interesting thought, an interesting perspective. Which location wins out in terms of infrastructure? What were the most important roads, waterways at the time, and thus the most accessible for the population? That's interesting way to view. I'm going to throw in San Felipe. We had the Brazos River. Like pretty much every road comes through San Felipe. We've got a lot of them. You know, when you look at a map, we're kind of the center of Austin's colony and everything's leading into here. It's important to know that San Felipe was like totally destroyed. So Columbia was the only place that had enough infrastructure at the time following the battle for everybody to make their way here. I'm not going to get into too much debate. There was another question about transportation, and I think that's really key to where these locations were. Of course, the waterways were much more important. The Brazos River, being able to get from San Jacinto down the bayou and into the bay, Galveston Bay, and out into the Gulf. So trying to bring people, I mean, you could get across land, but as we know in leading up to San Jacinto, you know, there were roads, but not great roads. And so using the waterways and making the way first to Velasco and then up the Brazos to Marion or Columbia, that was very important. That was an important piece of infrastructure, was the Brazos River. Somebody had mentioned, should the Brazos River really be the birthplace of Texas? And that's an interesting idea to me. I thought that was interesting too, because to Mark's point, by the end of 1836, there's nothing at San Felipe. They burned their own town completely to the ground, and following that, as far as infrastructure goes, we had the La Bahia Trail and the Brazos River. It was a major crossing point here in the Republic of Texas and in the colony of Texas prior to that. So following Eleanor's logic, considering there wasn't anything at San Felipe, by the time the Republic is actually formed, the answer actually is Washington on the Brazos. All right. Well, this has been a great discussion. We're running a little bit low on time. I want to give each panelist an opportunity to talk a little bit about what's going on at your site this spring. Do you have anything, any event you want to talk about, any events in connection with the Revolution? Tell us what we're going to see when we visit your site. I think we'll, Mark, go ahead and start. Okay, I'll go first. Oh, okay. I'm sorry, I should have called you. Okay. So, yeah, I didn't see the slide. So, yes. So, Varner Hog Plantation. Somebody asked about where to see a lot of Texas history, and I think our site, I'm not going to say we went out or anything, but it's a good place to get from settlement. We start in Mexican Texas and go all the way to the 1950s, and so you see this real broad scope of Texas history. And a very important part of Texas history, and a lot of what goes in, this is a whole other discussion, another day, the question of the peculiar institution of slavery in Texas and how much it impacted much of what we're talking about today. So, even after Reconstruction and what continued to happen before our famous Hog family finally came to the site in 1901. So, this month, we're not doing, probably the biggest program I have is later in the month, we're doing a series called Historically Well, and I'm going to be talking about the owner of the plantation, Columbus Patton, who was declared insane in 1854. And so, it's going to give me an opportunity to do some research and look into the state of mental health in Texas between about 1850 to 1900. So, I hope you'll join me. That's a virtual, it'll be on the THC website soon. Great, thanks. Kevin, tell us about Washington on the Brazos and what you all got going on. So, we are going to be commemorating the 185th anniversary of the Texas Revolution through several things. First of all, we're going to be documenting day by day a brief on what happened during the convention for the 17 days the delegates are assembled in Washington. We're posting that on social media, so keep your eye out for that. We hope to give you sort of an insight into what was happening at the convention as the town spoke of Washington, and then the citizens of Texas would have gotten that information as it was being published. And then, most excitingly, because we're not doing an in-person Texas Independence Day celebration this year, we are releasing a short documentary film, a docudrama, on the convention and the founding of Texas called Independence, A Lone Star Rises. That will be coming out on March 31st, so stay tuned for that. And later today, we'll be releasing a theatrical trailer from the film, so be sure to follow our social media both at Washington and also with the Texas Historical Commission for that. We're really excited about this. We've brought in a lot of great folks to put this together, and we're excited to share this story with you in a dramatic and upfront and personal way. So, be sure to look for that as well. Thank you. Great. That's exciting. Eleanor, tell us what's happening in San Felipe de Austin. Well, we're going to be having a lot on social media celebrating the printing history of San Felipe. So, we're going to be talking about Travis's letter, the printing of his letter from the Alamo, the printing of the Declaration of Independence, because it was printed here, the capture of Borden's Press at Harrisburg before the Battle of San Jacinto, and the championing of Baker as the deliverer of the Remember Goliad, Remember the Alamo speech. We've also got an upcoming History at Night webinar in late March, all about the runaway scrape, and we will also be commemorating the burning of the town on March the 29th. And more importantly, in early summer, we'll be opening our new Villa de Austin development, which are reconstructions of some of the buildings that existed here in San Felipe. So, you'll be able to come and get an idea of what it might have looked like here in San Felipe. Including the old courthouse, as I recall, near and dear to my own heart. Kate, tell us what you're doing at San Jacinto this time of year. Great. So, the San Jacinto Monument is hosting their annual fun run. It's going to be virtual this year. It's from March 6th to March 14th, so you can still sign up. There's also going to be a mini exhibit in the lobby of the San Jacinto Monument that's going to be looking at some of the artifacts that were discovered out here, specifically from where we think Almonte's surrender site was. And I believe that is opening to the public on March 12th, but I'm not 100% sure about that. I think it's still a little bit up in the air. But if you follow us on Facebook, we will be posting a lot about that once we have a confirmed official date. And it's going to be really, really cool. These artifacts haven't been seen by the public yet. And then, like Washington on the Brazos, we are not having a big in-person event this year, but we are going to be filming the reenactment, and we're going to be releasing it in four segments, the 19th through the 22nd. So, one each day commemorates the runaway scrapes, then the skirmish on the 20th, the battle, and the capture of Santa Ana. And that will be released on our social media feed. Great, that sounds great. All right, at the moment many have been waiting for, I'm going to ask our technologist to put the poll results up. Who won the... All right, a lot of people are all about declaring independence at Washington on the Brazos. Well, I want to thank our panelists for participating today. This has been very educational for all of us. Rest assured, everybody viewing this debate was good natured. All of these sites are critically important to the birth of Texas, as are several others. And I would encourage everyone watching to take some time this spring and go visit the great Texas Historical Commission sites. One of the things that is great about visiting during the anniversary period of the Texas Revolution is you get the blue bonnets start to come out. So, I know that'll be a welcome site to all of us after the recent freeze. I want to thank everybody for tuning in today. I hope you will go see all of these sites. The Texas Historical Commission, thank you very much for having me, and thank you for all you do to preserve the sites that are important for Texas history. Thanks, everybody, for tuning in today. Happy Independence Day, and God bless Texas.