Dawgs Beat Tide, Red River Thriller, Is UCLA For Real?

All right, welcome to the show. Others receiving votes. This is the Overreaction Sunday edition. Joined, as always, by my Sports Illustrated colleagues, Kevin Sweeney and Brian Fisher. I am Pat Forty. You can find us on YouTube, SI.com, all the places where finer podcasts can be located. And guys, I felt like the season really hit a different level on Saturday. It had been, to me, I thought the first half of the season had been a little bit meh, but now I'm converted. I think we've hit the mayhem, we've hit the drama, we've hit the unpredictability that makes the sport what it is. I was at Georgia-Alabama, Brian was at the Red River game, we had Kentucky and LSU play a free-for-all. We had whatever happened in Eugene with UCLA and Oregon. We had Indiana get pushed pretty much to the brink on the road at Nebraska and plenty of other things besides. So it was a really, really fun, absurd, anger-inducing, stupefying Saturday, I thought, gentlemen. Let's go ahead and start with the game I was at, Georgia-Alabama. Hurricane was a dud. That didn't materialize. We had, like, no weather, basically. It was a little bit drizzly, kind of spitting. That was it. No wind to speak of. So the hurricane didn't live up to it. But the game, I thought, was very good, very fun. Two really good teams playing a very taut game, as they tend to do. And one really bad call that I think was significant in the outcome of it. But Georgia did what it does against everybody but Alabama, but now is able to do against Alabama, which is to grind somebody down, beat them up, and find a way to win. So the Dogs took that game and are now the last unbeaten team in the SEC. We're taping this on Sunday morning. Haven't seen the new poll yet, but they'll assuredly be number one. Gentlemen, let's hear your thoughts. I know, Brian, you were probably riding Red River. I don't know how much you got to see of the game, but Kevin, I'll start with you, what you saw from Tuscaloosa. I thought it was a heavyweight fight, right? I think it was everything you would expect from a game of this magnitude, a rivalry of this magnitude. I thought coming in that this would be a game maybe decided by mistakes, right? Would Keelan Russell, would you get enough highs to outdo the lows? And, like, I thought he, for the most part, played stable enough to win them the game. Like, it was a mature performance from him. But at the end of the day, like, the immaturity comes in the final moment for Alabama with the penalty and obviously the Kalen DeBoer reaction, which has gotten a lot of play for I don't really know what reason. Like, I'm confused why anyone is upset that a coach is angry at a player for slapping a guy in the face and costing his team a chance to win the game seemed pretty earned to me. But yeah, I thought coming in that that would be the story. Would Georgia be able to disrupt Russell and make him make mistakes, make him make a catastrophic play? And he never did, but he was just uncomfortable enough that this Alabama offense that's been so good couldn't get into the rhythm that they've found. And Georgia's just a little bit tougher, a little bit more disciplined in the key moments to win a monster game on the road? Yeah, I mean, they know who they are. They're in Athens. That is an established program. When you come in as a freshman and when you leave as a, I guess, fifth-year senior now, you know exactly what's going to happen every single day that you're going to be there. And I think that kind of showed up in this game, those repetitive reps. I definitely feel that Georgia is not only a true national title contender, But like, you know, they are capable in my eyes of now getting over the hump, getting to Vegas, winning it all. Like I felt there were some some reservations, mostly just because of the quality of play in terms of some of their opponents coming into the year. But now having beaten Alabama in this manner, you know, you think there are they're one of those four or five elite teams in the sport right now that are favorites to get there to Las Vegas. And, you know, I thought it was was interesting to like this, you know, looking at the narratives more and more so than the game. Like this was the weekend in Tuscaloosa where they're opening the Nick Saban documentary. and you know they're they're having a whole bunch of hoopla around game day and and everything happening and um you know who was the program that looked like those Nick Saban teams and those Alabama teams who was the one that had discipline it was Georgia and at the same time i actually think you can go away saying Alabama actually is is probably in an even better position yes they cost themselves at the end but in terms of Keelan Russell's performance uh you know like everybody the defense at like i think Alabama can walk away saying all right even though we lost this game, we can still make it back to Atlanta. We can still contend for a national championship. I think there were some legitimate questions surrounding this program coming into the game that I think ultimately got answered. A play here or two, that's going to cost you in the SEC nowadays, given how closely matched a lot of these teams are. I'm not expecting either one of these teams to continue to run the table, but they've established themselves in terms of having that high floor and being ultimately able to reach that ceiling of winning national title i i think you know both teams can kind of walk away and say hey we feel good about where our program is right now yeah i think so i mean nobody lost anything irretrievable that's for sure on saturday and uh the thing that just impresses the heck out of me with Georgia Brian you alluded to it they are who they are and that's who they're going to be and you can't knock them off of that right their top two running backs are injured and out doesn't matter here comes the third stringer to run for 120 yards a guy nicknamed peanut uh their backup tight end makes a 53 yard catch their receivers it's like they come and go oh you know here's a guy who hadn't made a play in three weeks so he's gonna make several plays Craig Dandridge defensively doesn't matter who's hurt they got 20 guys on defense that can come at you I mean it's just The ability to recruit talent, develop talent, retain talent, get people to buy into not being a star, per se, because you look at the statistics, nobody really jumps off the page. But then you see them, and it's just like, oh my gosh, this is just a team of monsters. And Chris Cole, the linebacker, we're talking to him afterwards, and he was great, and he is great. He had two and a half sacks. I mean, he was everywhere. But that dude is a huge linebacker. He's really tall and long and rangy, but also not many people have linebackers who look like him. They've just got those guys. They've got creatures, and they're hardworking, disciplined, physical, mean creatures. It's impressive. And the one thing I think was I wasn't sure about Gunner Stockton. This season, he's convinced me. He's played well going into this game and then in a big spot. he played very well and that a little bit was the difference between him and Keelan Russell Keelan Russell you watch him and that's he's electric he can he runs like an elite athlete he throws with elite arm talent he's got it he's just younger he's gonna keep getting it i mean i think this dude is an absolute star in the making he just wasn't the most experienced quarterback on the field and maybe didn't have the most experience around him now Georgia also as I alluded to benefited from a pretty flagrant pass interference in the end zone that would have put Alabama closer for a tying field goal or possibly go ahead touchdown in the final minutes that didn't get called I think there was some overall just some some iffy officiating throughout the game but that was a huge one but then yeah Kevin you said that the like the personal foul ended the game and I don't blame Kaelin DeBoer at all for getting mad at him what do we like are we in an era where a football coach can't get on a guy who makes a game losing decision that is not lack of effort it's just pure lack of composure uh to me that's that I have no problem with the coaching there but uh that was part actually in in order probably part three of chronological it was happening but a three-part SEC drama where it's always something uh but the the other the earlier part Red River Brian you were there for that heck of a game and I this probably is the best rivalry in terms of knowing that the underdog is going to show up almost every time and just play their guts out and that's what I expected from Oklahoma but I didn't expect them to win and they did that and in really pretty heroic fashion I mean special teams plays defensive plays incredible catches uh I mean just just everything to pull that thing out Brian tell us about the scene and tell us about what Oklahoma was able to do well yeah I mean to your point you know I've been going to Red River for you know 30 plus years at this point and uh you know I I always say this is a bucket list type of game because you you know nobody's ever out of it it just it is one of those rivalries where you know the underdog and you really can throw out the records Like legitimately, throw them out because it doesn't matter who's highly ranked. It doesn't matter who's good. Now, sometimes there's the occasional blowout, but more often than not, these are going to be back-and-forth, seesaw-type affairs, and we certainly saw that. And I definitely thought Oklahoma had at least a chance just because of the mystique of the rivalry to do something. We knew they had a good defense. It was all about can the offense come to play. We saw that in the second half, certainly. John Matessa, not the prettiest performance by any means, But he made the throws, you know, the back shoulder to Cetania that got him in position for the field goal late. Like, I mean, everything that had to happen, you know what, that they came up clutch. And that's that's the nature of this game. And it's certainly a great atmosphere. You know, I'm a little disappointed, you know, that the new press box there is sealed in. So you can't really get a sense of the crowd like you could at the old place. But I mean, it was coming through in terms of just the Oklahoma excitement factor as they kept, you know, kind of stay staying around. just kept hanging in there, kept hanging in there. And then they started to make those plays in the second half. You started to get, get a little tight on, on the Texas sideline. And you could sense that every time Oklahoma would make a, make a huge play like that half of the Cotton Bowl, man, they were, they were up in arms and everybody was, it was going wild. And I think that the team kind of fed off of that, you know, to, to be honest on, on both sides of the ball. And you know, this was a case where, you know, as, as I wrote in my column, like the takeaway leaving this one is that Texas has some issues. You know, we've seen them play one great quarter of the season and they've kind of coasted on that a little bit but beyond that you know there's there's some issues special teams has been an issue that reared its head in this game uh obviously execution on offense like you know that they go three and out more than anybody in the in the league at this point that is an issue especially when you have a Cam Coleman and Arch Manning you know some of this high price talent you bring in uh two terrific running backs and they don't you know they average less than four yards a carry again this game so there's there's there's a lot of issues there for Texas to fix but um you know kudos to Oklahoma they got the job done uh when they needed to and really saved their season. I think this is one of those momentum wins where they can coast off it and can continue to take that into a very intriguing SEC schedule coming up as well. I just think Texas lost this game more than Oklahoma won it, and I think you obviously give credit to Oklahoma for staying in the fight. In these rivalry games, that is the key as much as winning it is just hanging around, hanging around, finding a way to linger and put game pressure on, and I thought they did a great job of that, but at the end of the day disastrous pick six block punt uh just the mistakes from Texas like Oklahoma had 238 total yards in the game how in the world do you lose a football game in like when you have the amount of offensive talent that Texas has when your defense holds the team under 250 total yards and it's it's just mistakes and especially i think knowing coming into the game what you were dealing with in terms of what Oklahoma's offense has not been so far this year like i i i just think it it's a really bad really unforgivable loss to me for this Texas group and obviously again weird things happen in rivalry games and uh it doesn't have to define Texas this season but this is going to be a hard one to to remove from the memory bank because as Brian said like we we just haven't seen enough great from Texas to wash away performances like this in huge spots and their schedule is very demanding here uh in the next month this was this was one you needed to have in my opinion this is this is this is a bad loss for the long uh yeah i i agree uh and again rivalry magic that's awesome but still Texas hey show up uh i i Arch Manning gotta play better two interceptions one a pick six that really helped bring Oklahoma but back and then the interception that set up their game-winning field goal. So people continue to talk about Arch Manning as the number one pick in the NFL draft. Somebody's got to show me why. I don't see it. I'm sorry. He's okay. He's pretty good. The amount of talent around him, they should be doing much more, as Brian alluded to. There's just that firepower they brought in that they paid a lot of money for is not firing. They did have the one great quarter against Ohio State, and they made plays and they executed, and otherwise they have been mediocre. And I will say this, mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be five-star quarterbacks. It's hard out there. I was looking at this over the weekend. We've got Arch, who was the number one quarterback in 2023, and people thought, you know, the absolute savior quarterback. So far, no. I mean, not a bust, but he hasn't been great. 2024, Dylan Rayola. Oh, my. Two tough years at Nebraska, transfers to Oregon, comes off the bench and plays well in a largely pressure-free spot for the Ducks against USC. I shouldn't say pressure-free, but still had the better team that day and then gets the start here against UCLA and gets benched for a walk-on because he was so bad. Three turnovers, two interceptions, a bad fumble. 2025, top quarterback Bryce Underwood. What are people saying in Michigan? Is this what we got? Where is the superpower from him? 2026, it's unfair to really even judge these guys yet, but a couple of them that have been thrown in from the top of the class right into the fire. Bazan Brandon, Jared Curtis, not working out too well so far. Bazan Brandon was either benched for bad play or is hurt. You know, both reasons have been given, but George McIntyre has been the quarterback most of the last two games for the Vols. Brandon struggled, which, again, I don't blame him. He's a freshman. Jared Curtis has struggled. Vanderbilt, I don't blame him. True freshman. But you get thrown into these situations, you get a bag of money right off the bat. expectations go through the roof it's not that easy uh thoughts on any of those guys i mean the one thing that stands out to me is is just the lack of stability for most of them and it's not just they're transferring uh which some of them are and bouncing around and struggling to find footing there but it's the constant offensive coordinator changes and the head coach changes like and part of that is just the reality of like i i think when you get the amount of hype that these guys get that then the expectations rise for the football team it doesn't work right i think Nebraska be a perfect example of this right like Rhule comes in with all this acclaim but he had what he had i think he had two different offense coordinators and then now he's transferred and he's into a third system um Bryce Underwood second offensive coordinator like when again this is not to absolve some of these guys of their poor performances it's very real but like i think we spend a lot of time focused on man these guys have no stability because if they don't play they just transfer and they bounce around it's like they don't have stability in the environments they start at so so how how are we ever expecting an 18 19 20 year old quarterback to blossom into uh the type of player that you want him to become when he never has the same voice in his ear for two years in a row like again like we talked about Gunner Stockton right is he the most talented quarterback in college football no but there's some like real stability there uh and obviously like they like they've had they've had some things change like there's obviously been a little bit like like for the most part Georgia is Georgia Georgia is trying to be Georgia every single year Gunner Stockton knows what he needs to do to succeed in this system i think that that to me is the difference and and why like when you're trying to pick a horse to back in the five-star quarterback sweepstakes it's like who has the the right stuff around them and who has an environment where like yeah there's there's willingness to wait and develop but there's also willingness around the quarterback to put the people around him that want to work with him for two three four five years and not six months yeah i mean we see we see the same thing in the NFL right you know it's it's not necessarily even you know these talented guys that we we see their obvious uh you know what they can do with the football in their hands it's it's the the people around them it's the organizations that that fail talent and we're seeing that at the college level i think everybody comes in and yes you know pat you know to your point like you get paid a bunch of money and you're the five star and you're labeled the savior And, and, uh, nobody ever looks about like, all right, well, what's, what's your offensive line situation? Who are you throwing to? Like, I mean, truly maybe Texas might be a great example of actually trying to address a lot of those issues, but it is not aligned, uh, to, to elevate Arch Manning, you know, you know, to be one of those top tier quarterbacks, you should be elevating a team. And we haven't really seen that out a lot of those five-star guys. And, you know, truthfully, I think a lot of coaches, um, you know, nowadays, and now they're general managers to, um, you know, kind of say, you know, they're, they're, we're, we're going to be uh we're going to hitch our wagons to these five-star guys they're going to pull us along it should be the the other way we should be pushing those guys um you know just to really bring us along as a program and and making sure that everybody is is is on the same page and whether it's causing coordinator turnover uh i mean you look at that that the roster turnover as is um you know it can be difficult and uh you know it's not just a you know easy an easy bake up and recipe where you just throw it in and turn the little knob you know you got to develop that chemistry you got to make sure that everybody is on the same page and um you know i think a lot of these programs that they do kind of get a little bit wide-eyed when when they get get involved in one of these top tier quarterbacks and not kind of think about all right well how how are we going to make sure that this investment in a very key player at the most important position in the on the field is really going to pay off for everybody and i think that that's going to be the same thing that everybody has to kind of consider moving forward uh you know who is performing extremely well, the quarterback, leading the nation, the top two players in the nation in pass efficiency. Darian Mensah, who is the number 112 quarterback prospect in his class, according to 24-7 Sports. Number two, Josh Hoover, Indiana, who is the number 42 quarterback in his class. Gunnar Stockton's third. He was not the most celebrated recruit out there. Julian Sane was but uh right place right surroundings right coaching and the one place that continues to defy all common sense indiana and kevin everything you said about stability around a quarterback is true but you go to indiana and you become better fernando mendoza becomes the heisman winner just walks in and is that guy josh hoover new in the program throwing to guys he didn't know Michigan State, they bring in Nick Marsh. So far, he's been fantastic. What's the one thing Indiana quarterbacks don't do? They don't screw up because Kurt Cignetti won't tolerate it, and Mike Shanahan won't tolerate it, and they don't put the quarterback generally in a position to screw up. Josh Hoover was a little bit interception-prone before he got there. So far, zero interceptions in six games. It's just astounding what they do. And then there's Indiana West Coast version, or should I say James Madison West Coast version. Kudos to JMU Sports News, a very humorous, cheeky Twitter account, which, as they note, that James Madison itself is 6-0. JMUCLA with Bob Chesney, who used to be the James Madison coach, is 5-0. And JMU Bloomington with Signetti, former JMU coach, is 6-0. Strong start for James Madison and its satellite campuses. So kudos to them, but it is astounding what they're all doing. But let's talk about UCLA, which, like, this is wild. I mean, you go into Eugene, very difficult place to play, double-digit underdog. Let's be real. Oregon did a lot to lose this game, a lot. Seven turnovers, seven turnovers. But UCLA forced a lot of them. UCLA made the most of what they had. Nico Iamaleava gets knocked out, doesn't play in the second half. Speaking of non-five-star quarterbacks, Ty Dieffenbach, a transfer from Cal Poly where he had nine touchdowns and nine interceptions last year. Before that, had been at Pitt and never saw the field. He was number 46 quarterback prospect in 2023. He's also the nephew of Paula Boven, former sports writer, now journalist instructor, professor at Arizona State, and a former member of the college football playoff selection committee. I was kind of joking about this dude from Cal Poly, and she said, that's my nephew. I was like, whoa, good for you. Good for him. Anyway, like what they're doing is insane. It's completely insane to go to Eugene, lose your starting quarterback and win the game um kevin i know you've obviously been following chesney and the exploits there your thoughts on that one yeah it's it's funny to think back to the summer and the way we talked about UCLA and Chesney is like man the vibes are incredible but like there's surely no way that they can do the Signetti thing right i don't care how many like podcasts with Bill Simmons he's doing and you know great interviews and this and that like that there's no way it can be this good this fast and it it just is and it it hasn't always been perfect right like they give up they got punched in the mouth in the second half against Cal in the opener they gave up 38 to Purdue uh this game obviously you talk about the mistakes from Oregon UCLA made a ton of mistakes um in many ways could have lost that football game on their mistakes and just like the resilience and the joy that they play with um i don't know i think everybody's now seeing the video of them dancing the shout before the fourth quarter like yeah again Bob Chesney's superpower it seems is kind of fostering this environment where guys are unbelievably disciplined in between the lines but kind of perfect for UCLA like want to have fun want to have like a good good vibe about them like it's just it's impressive to watch the way that they attacked that environment um there was no fear uh in this group and they found a way in gritty fashion to win a really tough road game and set themselves up to be a serious playoff contender now again how good is Oregon right now i think is very much an open question um particularly without Dante Moore with Loyola struggling the way he was but at some point like these are not the games you're supposed to win if you are year one head coach at UCLA and the fact that they keep finding ways to win them uh that that he says a whole lot about Chesney as a coach and and where this thing could go here in the coming years not just this year and then you know a shout out to James Madison themselves got their first ever win in Statesboro uh this past weekend as well surviving a late field goal uh so you know JMU keeping up there into the bargain there for Billy Napier and possibly even uh remaining in this college football playoff mix just like UCLA and Indiana are and wouldn't it be something to see all three of those schools uh be there on on selection sunday or even play one of one another so um i i think you know to you know to bob's credit like i mean uh you know he he talked in the spring when i sat down with him and chatted with him like he talked about like the past is the past like whatever was happening you know and at ucla in the past like that's that doesn't concern this team in particular like it was a very forward-facing uh you know approach to not only building a roster And I give credit to UCLA. They've spent more on this roster than they ever have in school history. Like they're actually investing at a level that they want to actually get some wins on the football field. Now, are they in the same stratosphere as Oregon and USC even across town or, you know, the Ohio State's the world? No, but they are competitive, at least in the Big Ten. And I think that that raises the floor. Certainly, you've got the guys, not just the JMU transfers that Bob brought with him, but like, you know, some of the guys that they've helped fill out the roster. And, uh, you know, I think there was a lot of focus on, you know, Nico and his price tag when he came to UCLA, um, two years ago, but, you know, this was, uh, you know, really an approach, you know, kind of designed to that. Hey, you know what, we, we need some offensive linemen. We need some, some defensive linemen. We need some, some linebackers. We need some depth at some of those places. Let's, let's actually spend to get some of those guys, um, you know, into school. And then you want, it's about habits, you know, like they are building winning habits there in Westwood. And you can't ever say that was the case probably in the past 20-ish years at this point in terms of just having a pretty holistic approach in terms of every day. And this is kind of getting back to my earlier point about Kirby. They know what they need to do every day when they step in there. Yes, they're having some fun. It's nice to play with a guy that brings the energy, whether it's at practice or whether it's in the meeting room. You see that in some of the behind-the-scenes stuff that they've released. And they're going out and executing. I mean, like in the past, you know, to have those turnovers and being in Eugene and Oregon and to lose your quarterback like that, that would have been a place where UCLA would have folded, you know, 10 times out of 10. Right. But they didn't. They kept with it. They stuck with the game. They just played within themselves. You know, and that can go a long ways, especially when the other team is not executing like we've seen with with Oregon. And I'm sure we're going to get into some superlatives later in the show, but like, I mean, this is a truly disappointing season there in Eugene because this was everybody internally and externally said this was going to be the year for the Ducks. They built up their depth. They built up the starting talent. They got Dante Moore back. They had every ingredient there to make a national title run. Well, now you have an Ohio State team coming up on the not-too-distant horizon. Nine and three is not going to cut it in terms of making the playoff. And so I think for this Oregon team in particular, to not have the wins that they have, it's going to be very difficult for them to ultimately realize their own goals. And I'm going to be curious to see how that's going to impact the rest of the season for the Ducks because are they capable of running the table from here? Sure, they have that talent on hand, but we have not seen it. much like Texas, what we were talking about earlier, that we have not seen a complete four quarters from this team outside of that blowout win over an FCS opponent. And I think that reflects pretty poorly on Dan Lanning at this point in terms of some of the decisions that he has made with this group moving forward. Yeah, the thing with UCLA, they have the five-star quarterback, Nico Iamaleava, but he hadn't lit the world on fire. Again, they are doing it with some JMU guys. Again, like Wayne Knight is fantastic. He's 5'7", running back that came over, 22 carries, 103 yards, his third straight 100-yard rushing game. What they're doing is lining up and running the ball at everyone and outlasting people and winning the fourth quarter. And, yes, Kevin, they're counter-programming the third quarter into the fourth quarter. Hype music is fantastic. They had been there. The JMU guys had been there last year. That might have helped them, too, in this situation. like yeah you know it's a good environment it's not that great we can win there they didn't win there at JMU but they could at UCLA they played well in that second half against Oregon they did back in that playoff game yeah yeah they did so you know i just everything they're doing it's just so reminiscent of what uh Signetti did his first year at Indiana so we'll see how long they can keep it going just one thing on Oregon sorry pat like the thing that like boggles my mind with where they're at is in both of their losses they've basically been gifted seven points right UCLA fumbled i think on the one Oklahoma they had a one one yard drive against Oklahoma State they also had the 100 yard pick six um that should have been you know Oklahoma State could have ran away from them early and instead they they run like 96 yards back for touchdown like a team this talented you should not be able to make mistakes like that against them and win and the fact that that has happened now twice and they have been like gifted 17 points essentially in two and two two games where you're the more talented team like what does that say about this team right now i think that's the that's the thing that's so crazy it's like that they've been they've been given the breaks to survive some of these kind of weird under performances and just haven't been able to finish and execute it's it's sort of boggling it's sort of mind boggling with with where they're at just the way we looked at them coming into the year the talent i'm I'm, I'm, I'm shocked that we're here, but yeah, like, like this team has some real grit factor at this point, right? I mean, with the amount of, like with what's still left on their schedule with where they're at a quarterback, I mean, who knows when Dante's coming back and look like, should Dante more come back from a serious concussion? If Oregon's out of the playoff conversation, there's a question and you know, like very much. Yeah. I hope that's not a conversation we have to have, but like, I don't look at the schedule for Oregon and say, man, like this is a nine and three football team. like it's great that theoretically they could but like Nebraska's gonna test them next week Nebraska pushed Indiana uh Northwestern's gonna test them in a couple weeks Northwestern's a darn good football team at this stage you still have and then and then Ohio State like what if this is a seven and five Oregon what if this is our what if this is our Penn State game yeah i'm not not a fire own but i mean i mean think about going back to that Penn State game last year in terms of the fortunes changing on these two programs i think that really you know that that overtime that i was there for like that kind of set this this Ducks roster on their way uh the rest of last season and kind of they carry that over into the postseason and into here but you know this year like i i also see a coaching staff that's kind of failing or flailing almost at trying to find answers like i mean they were rotating and like they they basically changed their most of their offensive line at times during this game obviously you have the quarterback change after all the turnovers like they're they're trying to find solutions in real time they don't have a step b or a plan b uh in order to you know if something's not working in the game like they're they're like all right well let's throw this out there let's let's see if that'll work like and that to me is probably the more alarming thing if you're a Ducks fan is that this does not look like a a coaching staff a team itself that is capable of getting itself out of some of these situations that they find themselves in right now and i think that that's probably the biggest indictment i think in terms of uh the program this offseason is you know what we talked a lot about those those coordinators well it's it's not just them like this is an entire coaching staff kind of issue and uh you know the players need to own some accountability as well because uh you know nothing is working right there in Eugene especially when they get punched in the mouth you know initially um you know there's there's not a whole lot of fight that i'm seeing out of the Ducks moving forward yeah well they they replaced both coordinators and one of them is now five and one at Kentucky uh which leads us to the next thing here so a little a few mid-season uh most best worst least superlatives to give out and uh let's start with bust i think we've covered Oregon on the bust front there's others though plenty of others uh i am going to start with a guy you would think for getting 13 million a year he could win a road game but so far no for Lane Kiffin oh and two on the road at LSU lost Mississippi in an unbelievably charged atmosphere and then lost at Kentucky to former Oregon offensive coordinator Will Stein Kentucky's second straight 35 34 OT victory in which they went for two and won the game unbelievable brassy stuff from Will Stein but LSU i mean right now that is a paper tiger so far that's a massively expensive roster that doesn't travel and has not found a way to win close games they punked a terrible I think a bad Clemson team at home to start the season that got everybody excited they bludgeoned Texas A&M and boy are we going to talk about them here on the bust segment uh but I'm not seeing anything from LSU in terms of like digging in to win a tight game so far and the schedule there holy cow uh if if you've lost to Kentucky and strange things happen when LSU goes to play in Lexington that's an established fact I wrote about that in 40 yard dash last week but still losing that game that's a bad look Mississippi State coming off an open date you got next you've got Alabama Texas at Tennessee uh all in a row later in the season And the LSU fans, that ain't what they signed up for here when they stole Lane Kiffin from Ole Miss. So that's – I would say I put LSU high on my list of midseason busts. What do you guys got? No disagreements here. I think LSU, you mentioned A&M. I mean, I think the Aggies. I mean, the fact that Mike Elko is out there calling out Texags after the game, you know things are pretty bad in College Station. Texags, that's not your problem. That's not your enemy. Those people want you to be good. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, uh, Billy Lucci is, is not the, not the enemy, uh, there in college station, you know, if anything. So, um, you know, but you know, I'm, uh, it, and it's, it's interesting. I mean, you look at the amount of, you know, 40 ish million dollars, 35, you know, 30 to $40 million rosters in the sec, you have Texas at one and one, um, you know, in, in the conference standings, LSU is one and two, uh, A&M one and three, uh, you know, even some of the others that have spent a decent amount of money. I mean, vandy's own three and looks completely uncompetitive for even the amount that they're spending so um you know what that this is the thing about not only uh adding the ninth conference game in the sec but like just the nature of conferences nowadays somebody's got to lose you know what and even if you are spending 30 million dollars on a roster or 40 or 45 um you know if there's not the execution factor you know you're going to take some losses because the margins are so thin i mean he you know kirby after the game i know he mentioned it too like you know it can be the bounce of a ball almost at times in terms of just you know getting those key plays to go go your way and uh that's just kind of the nature of certainly the sec nowadays and we've seen that with Lane Kiffin faltering but yeah i mean there's there's there's little doubt that uh few few people there in baton rouge expected them to have two losses before kind of going into their gauntlet of the season still having to play texas and still having to play alabama and some of those other games those those are now must win games um if you're talking about delivering a playoff team and uh you know i think that is going to be really amp up the pressure even further there in baton rouge uh on Lane Kiffin and i think there there probably should be some a little bit of grace but um you know he certainly not endeared himself in terms of uh some of his comments and some of his actions so i i don't think anybody else in the conference certainly is going to be looking um you know uh pouring a little bit of woe is me uh for the tigers there look to me like the the best way to summarize this game is that the head coach who has made his career on being a riverboat gambler and lane kiffin had fourth and one with his uh highly paid quarterback and highly paid offensive line and he kind of went back into a shell and punted the football and said hey you go will stein and then will stein had a chance to go win the game at the three-yard line he said like the numbers say i'm right so i don't like like the there was so much time i mean that had to have been like a six minute process of of reviews and timeouts and complaints about the play clock like there were so many moments and they ran out the weird uh formation with the willy cat i think they were calling it with the tight end at quarterback there were so many moments where i am sitting there going man you got to walk away now just kick that pat let's play for the second overtime you got the building on your side like will stein was he was just more convicted in his football team i think than lane kiffin or maybe he didn't care right like there is something to being the underdog there is something to being Kentucky in that game and there is something to being Ole Miss when Lane Kiffin was at Ole Miss that is does not exist now that he is the head coach at LSU that there are these expectations about this football team and I just thought he coached scared compared to Will Stein who uh again we we talked about his brashness his fearlessness when he gets up there at SEC media day and says believe in this program because you believe in me and i i like i am uniquely qualified to get this done and like he's backed up his words but it's it's it's a lot easier to go out in front of a microphone and talk that way and it's another another thing to go out and be that way in a high level football game when it feels like your season is on the line and i give Will Stein credit for uh trusting his quarterback who made an awesome play and i believe i read that that was a check at the line that that was not the play call um that Kenny Minchew saw saw an opening said let's go get it and uh he might've, might've ended LSU's playoff hopes We'll see. Although I do think, I don't think we're making it to Halloween before we get the first, you know, actually eight and four in the SEC is a pretty darn good year now, you know, eight and four. Let's not, you know, if, if can you imagine what these Big 12 teams would be doing in the, in the SEC, you'd be lucky That's definitely coming. We know that that's definitely coming. Oh yeah. It's coming. It's coming. But yeah, Yeah, for a lot of reasons. That game was everything that so far has been wonderfully fresh and invigorating about Will Stein and also indicates that there's a bit of a burden on Lane Kiffin at LSU and he's not necessarily holding up under it perfectly well yet. So, all right, those are, I think, I'll throw in one more bust for our midseason bust. Penn State has yet to beat a power conference opponent. 0-3, they played three non-factor teams in non-conference, won those games there 0-3 in the Big Ten it was a good fun game against USC not a great shame to lose that one, although it's a whiteout you want that force of the home field to maybe carry you there, especially against a program that hasn't been great on the road recently but that didn't happen I think the worst losses were before that uh and i'm looking at penn state and thinking you could have had Bob Chesney but they didn't so anyhow those that's my bust list anybody else you guys want to put on there before we get on to a couple other things could i add the entire ACC beyond Miami and Wake like i mean sure i mean i i feel like SMU has disappointed um you know pitt obviously there's probably some injury concerns um given that they lost a quarterback louisville um you know like there's there's no way that, uh, you know, you, you look at the record and three and three is just disappointing. No, no, no ways about it. Like, you know, North Carolina has done probably better than we expected, but like you go up and down the rest of the conference, like Virginia Tech losing at Cal. I mean, that's, that's kind of inexcusable. Um, you know, even in year one for James Franklin, NC State has been terribly disappointing. Um, you know, even, you know, Georgia Tech has not, uh, not exactly lived up to expectations. They pull off the upset of Duke this past weekend so like the rest of the ACC um beyond Miami and Wake that that is that is tough going especially when uh you know there's a big game talk in terms of all right we want to get two two teams into the playoff that looks like unless there's some sort of bid thief scenario in the ACC title game uh that is a pipe dream at this point yeah i would add Washington to the absolute crumble list i mean yeah that team is awful yeah uh they were getting absolutely cut up by an Iowa offense and look i think Iowa has improved offensively give Tim Lester credit give Jeremy Hecklinski credit who had the moment of the weekend maybe when he he swore at the opposing defensive line to jump that was terrific that was awesome i mean you you got cut up like i have never seen an Iowa offense do that to a like a serious outfit so yeah Washington to me would be on the list yeah good call there that's another team that has yet to beat a power conference opponent so uh their their their victories are all empty calories uh all right coach of the year I think we've kind of taken Chesney and Will Stein to a degree off the board you guys got anybody else you want to nominate coach of the half year let's put it that way well I do mention uh I mentioned Wake so I think Jake Dickert uh deserves plenty of praise I mean five and one you can see a potential playoff path there for for Wake freaking Forest um who's spending one of the probably the smallest one of the smallest roster budgets uh certainly in in the ACC if not the entire Power Four at this point and they played Miami tough I mean that was a tough game into into the fourth quarter I know Miami was banged up in that one but like this is a a tough group and um you know they've they've really looked they outclassed Stanford uh certainly no changes everybody kind have expected that but the way they just really pulled away from NC State on the road this past weekend if they can survive that cross-country trip to Cal um you know like I mean everything is kind of shaping up to if you can beat SMU at the end of uh middle of November like you're you're looking at uh getting back to Charlotte and possibly getting a rematch against Miami so um even even at 11 and one uh this is probably a team that you probably got to say is firmly in the playoff uh consideration which I don't think anybody had uh before the season so kudos to Jake Dickert um I'm sure he's going to be one of those coaches that we're going to hear his name a lot come the coaching carousel yeah I I was going to mention Dickert as well, like the job he has done is unbelievable, right? I think when you think back to two years ago when when Dave Clawson walked away, I think a lot of that was him feeling like, man, like we're not set up to compete anymore, like this is this is going to get stale in a hurry if it hasn't already and I don't know that that has changed. I don't think Wake is Brian alluded to it. This is one of the least invested in rosters in the Power Four. Their quarterback was a bust at a rival school in North Carolina. I give them credit. Again, they're not just beating people. They are beating the brakes off people. Last year, that was like a Houdini football team. They won a lot of games where you looked up and you're like, oh my goodness, how did they do that? This year's Wake Forest is a problem. Give credit to him. Look, UCLA, Kentucky, they have They have big budgets. Yes, it was a surprise that they've done it. But to me, like, wins above replacement coaching-wise, I think Dickert might be at the top. Yes. Very high WAR rating for Jake Dickert, no doubt about it. I'll throw in one more. Jason Eck at New Mexico. We've talked about them. But lost the starting quarterback before the season. They haven't beaten anybody of note necessarily, but they have crushed four opponents and played a one-score game with Oklahoma. their turnover margin is the craziest thing in college football, they're plus 18 in five games they have 19 takeaways, seven fumbles, 12 interceptions that's probably not sustainable but they've done it this far, uh it's it's just astounding, hey we lost our quarterback, okay we'll just make the defense win the games just by taking the ball away constantly, so phenomenal job by uh Jason Eck there at New Mexico as well. Last mid-season appraisal question. Does anybody other than Jeremiah Smith belong in the Heisman conversation? I think Jesse Lagree does. Yeah, he's awesome. I mean, look, I understand that people are going to grade it on a different scale because it's the group of six, but I don't know that there's any football player that's more explosive than this guy. And by the way, he was darn good when they played Texas Tech. He was darn good when they played Houston. And, and those are very good football teams. So I think he belongs again. If this ends up being a Jeremiah, Jeremiah Smith runaway, I think we should at least find a way to get this guy in New York. Like he should, he should, he should, he should get a trip because what he is doing is ridiculous. Yeah. And I mean, and Jim Marcus Shepard, the Boise State coach, I mean, you talk about coach of the year. He is certainly up there in terms of completely flipping, you know, the, the, just the, the entire mood around the program there. Um, you know, everybody was kind of questioning, all right, who is this guy, you know, coming from, from an offensive staff in Alabama and like, and, and he, you know, this is one of the more exciting teams that they pushed to Big 12, uh, opponents, um, you know, right to, to the end of the second half. And, uh, you know, they look like probably the Boise state's biggest threat there in the Big 12, uh, which I don't think anybody kind of had on their, on their radar at this point, uh, coming into the season. So, you know, kudos to everybody there in Corvallis. Um, you know, they, they've been through a lot of these last couple of years and to see them have some some success and to see them have a player like this um you know even Atkinson the the quarterback there uh he's been phenomenal so uh kudos to everybody there um i would say to also i i do want to add in another uh coach of the year candidate uh if i may uh here at the end uh i would say uh Morgan Scalia at Utah uh that is a program that uh should be undefeated going into the Holy War um and they are also a threat i think in the beehive state to uh to potentially make the playoff and and they they've got an efficient offense i mean you look at um you know a lot of questions about, uh, you know, can they run into quarterbacks out there at this point? Um, you know, like, you know, the, the defense is obviously going to be the Utah defense that we always expected, but, um, you know, I think there were a lot of question marks in terms of the offense, but, uh, they've kept opponents off balance and, uh, they look like another threat in the big 12. So, um, you know, kudos to them. And I, I would be curious in terms of narratives about the Heisman. Yes, it does seem like it's Jeremiah Smith's to lose, but, um, you know, could anybody like, you know, have some sort of second half surge, you know, like maybe it is, Keelan Russell at Alabama. If he turns around and starts posting those highlight plays and he starts knocking off a bunch of big-time SEC opponents, I could see somebody like that, especially in that voting block in the South, just getting a lot of interest. And maybe he kind of makes a run there, not only to get to New York, but maybe threaten to kind of get the award away. As we all know, quarterbacks on marquee teams having playoff success, that is a recipe to get into the mix in the Heisman. I think that could be potentially the case for somebody like that beyond Jeremiah Smith well how about Darian Mendoza who is the national leader in pass efficiency on the on an undefeated top five team uh and we'll have a super marquee game against Notre Dame coming up November 7th CJ Carr too i he's been fine this year he's not been dazzling but if either of those quarterbacks just goes supernova and they win the game and they're undefeated i think they could also factor in one other thing i want to just point out about Jesse Legree all right he's a freshman he's from Baltimore how they get into Oregon State phenomenal but he's played a total of six college games he's had 100 yards receiving in every single one of them i mean like nobody starts their career like this it's crazy jeremiah smith didn't start his career like that now obviously a little different level of competition for the most part but as as kevin pointed out i mean he lit up Texas Tech eight catches 240 yards against them so that's a guy to keep an eye on uh all right guys uh that's the mid-season Heisman but who won the Saturday Heisman for you we we do this every week we hand out the weekly Heisman and we also fire somebody there's still people to fire out there even though we've already criticized several people but let's start with the the Saturday Heisman who you giving it to i wanted to shout out Jonas Walton from Notre Dame uh i know that obviously like they're they beat the breaks off Stanford. It feels like a lot of Notre Dame games right now are pretty unwatchable because of how much better they are than their competition. But the one thing we were waiting to see was where would the run game come from? Would it continue to come along? And this freshman has been unbelievable. 181 yards yesterday, 13 carries, two touchdowns. Was the bell cow in the second half against Carolina last week when they were in the rain and trying to grind one out. And that is a difference maker. So he's certainly one to watch and deserves the Heisman this week for me. I don't know if he necessarily is the Heisman, but I do want to give Lenora Sellers a shout out because, I mean, that was one of the more eye-opening results in terms of South Carolina going into the swamp, all this focus on South Carolina, Shane Beamer's job status. Lenora Sellers looks like the guy that we all kind of expected this season, being a veteran in that offense, making plays with his feet. And, you know, he was not like the overwhelming wow in terms of some of the numbers, but he made plays when it counted. And, you know, he kept Florida's defense guessing, you know, kind of all day. And that was kind of one of those head-turning type results that, you know, certainly you could say, all right, Florida went from potential playoff pick for a lot of folks, you know, after beating Ole Miss the way they did, to maybe their 4-4 at the end of the month. You know, and I think this is kind of one of those games that that kind of hinged on. And because of that, it was the play of Lenora Sellers. I mean, they got off the bus, and Dylan Stewart was there. And, you know, there was a lot of focus in terms of some of the guys that were coming back to the roster for the Gamecocks. But Lenora Sellers led a big-time victory. that at least cooled tensions there in Columbia for the Gamecocks? Hey, that was the classic Shane Beamer random performance generator at work, man. Like, when you count them out, they rise up. When you start getting excited about them, they fall down. That's generally the way they go. And everybody's ready to fire Beamer, and they go and not just win, but dominate on the road in the swamp. That's classic. You never know what you're going to get with Shane. Also, shout-out Noah Fafita as well. He played phenomenal for Arizona. Like, that was a track meet a little bit at times. You know, I think West Virginia ran over 100 plays in that one, and they lost by, like, three touchdowns. And it was just, you know, a wildly efficient day for Arizona, and Noah Fafita in particular. Even down on a bunch of wide receivers. Man, he was phenomenal, was really torched that West Virginia defense. And Arizona, another team in that Big 12 to watch. all right if you're giving out basically co-heisman so am i uh by design here the army and navy quarterbacks jackson gutierrez at navy who did not start the season as the starter and kale Helms at army so we're in this era where running backs if they carry the ball 20 times a game they're supposed to like just keel over and die right it's too much too much of a load right we don't do that we got to give them 15 carries parcel it out here's what these guys did saturday jackson gutierrez 41 carries for 232 yards for navy kale helms 38 carries for 223 yards for army and they got to do everything else too i mean they're running the offense they got to take the place they got to get everybody lined up they got to occasionally throw the ball no such thing of load management with the service academy quarterback so great job by them you are my uh saturday Heisman co-winners and i can't wait to see you guys each carry the ball 40 times when you play each other come mid-december all right who are we firing this week uh kevin you got somebody to fire i mean i i just think like if we're if we're calling the firing bowl the the idiot olympics like mike mike elko i mean we touched on it earlier like what are you doing like why you can survive no i i also saw a great tweet from matt brown that said something to the extent of i don't know if calling out the calling out the online fan base is a great or horrible move when gas is this expensive at texas a&m but uh i really enjoyed that one but yeah again you're going like i think there's at least a growing understanding that you're gonna have weird down years in in this era of college football that turned it over a lot just just like i would love to have seen a video of the SID uh standing there as he said yeah billy cesspool over there and he's like here we go it's gonna be a long week so yeah mike elko gets fired for the comment not for the football team which is not very good but it happens so many options uh i mean you could go with jed fish at washington uh texas you know i i think i'm gonna go with steve sarkeesian um you know like you know like we said earlier in the show texas lost that game a little bit more than Oklahoma won it, and it's Red River. It means a lot, but man, that was just like... Especially, they had a chance there at the end of the first half. They really could have delivered a kill shot. They went up-tempo. The offense started moving a little bit, and everything started running, and then they just kind of slowly backed off the pedal a little bit, ended up stalling in the drive, kicked a field goal, and didn't score at all in the third quarter, and allowed OU to get back into it. So I'm going to go with Steve Sarkisian, especially given that I think there's going to be a little bit larger questions amongst that fan base amongst that administration even um in terms of hey steve do you need to maybe give up play calling just a little bit or at least have somebody have more responsibilities on offense so that you can focus a little bit more on on game management and and focusing on where where where the game is going for the Longhorns uh in order to kind of get over the hump uh with a very high price roster yeah i wouldn't blame him for not wanting to give that up during the season that's a tough thing to all of a sudden pull off uh i think Sean Payton's doing it with the Broncos but Sean Payton's been the play caller so this this is more of a market correction i wouldn't want to be reinventing that wheel at this point the offense has got issues but but i don't think having Sark not call the plays would be the answer there uh this is a one week firing only but i'm firing Matt Rhule uh Nebraska they had the atmosphere they jumped on Indiana They took advantage for a long time. It looked like they had the better team. And then, like, defensively, they just, like, I don't know what happened. But they just gave up massive play after massive play. And the fourth and one wide-open touchdown. Great call by Sig. He said they stole it from Lance Leipold and Andy Kotelnicki when they were at Kansas together. But the, you know, the line fake. And then you've got two receivers popping. there is nobody covering either of them you gotta have three guys open on that play it's unbelievable everybody was wide open how does that happen and that's just Nebraska under Rhule close game big shot got a chance to beat somebody yeah no we're not gonna not gonna do it and you know i thought they played well and i do think they are better than they have been in quite some time but for one week only you get that chance man you've got Indiana down and this is Indiana does this they came back against Iowa on the road they came back against Penn State on the road last year and now they've done it here but you get that chance and you give up two walk-in touchdowns basically to lose the game so Matt Rhule you're fired you can come back next week but you're fired today all right and the fed uh listeners watchers you can come back uh thursday i'll be on with Gene Wojciechowski, and then we will be back for more Overreaction Sunday next week. Thanks for checking us out. Have a great week, everybody.