FULL: Lower Greenville Community Roundtable

You know, he said, well, what would you do with the feeder? Would you tear it down? And I said, absolutely not. You'd be crazy to tear this thing down. And I didn't know if that was going to help us or hurt us. But I think that was really important to Mike, as you heard. So, you know, I think trust is earned. You guys have no reason to trust me. You don't know me. I don't know any of you. Our plans for the Granada that were in the early stages of filing with the city are to preserve the feeder. The sundown will go away, but we want to keep that facade. So I think it's a good faith. One of the things that we're exploring right now, which we'd like to do, we're going to keep the facade, whether it's landmarked or not. You guys will see that in short order. We're exploring how to designate it to make that official, because I think that's a show of something that we want to do anyway. Anyway, um... And so, you know, I'm happy to open it up to a few questions. My hope is. Dallas has this amazing community that that that was something that we thought that was a big reason we wanted to be in Dallas. I'm seeing it now with all of your engagement. We hope to be a part of that community. I hope you guys give us a chance. You know, we're not trying to do something cruel. We would never want to come in and be the catalyst for the Granada close. We're there because it was closing. And I understand that it's hard. I would be upset. And I am as a music fan, I hope that two things can be true. Upsetting that the Granada is closing and maybe some people will be excited that we're opening because that is the situation. So, again, this is not a pitch for you guys to enjoy our business. Hopefully, you'll give it a chance. Our business wouldn't exist without a great community. One day, hopefully, you guys will see that yourself. And so, I'm happy to take a couple questions. I know there's a lot of you. If you want to raise your hand, maybe that's an easier way to organize it. Go for it. Casey, I see you on there. Yep. So I first of all want to thank both of you guys for meeting with us. I think the public discourse here is really important with situations like this. I also personally want to thank Mike for 20 years of great stewardship. I've had so many experiences in that venue that I don't think I could have had anywhere else and certainly not in the city. I am curious because we've had some investors reach out to a group of us. If Mike could get a better offer, or potentially if you guys could acquire the property and even turn a profit on selling it to someone who wants to keep it as a performance venue, would you guys be open to that? Yeah, I appreciate the question. So, you know, I just want to be clear about this. And I was a late party to this. This was a three-year process. So I think Mike has proven that the economics of that are not viable for us at this point. We've made a big commitment to this and we've already invested a lot of money in the work that it takes to get to pre-development. I'm not in the business of flipping properties to turn a quick buck. We're in the business of creating something really epic that will hopefully be here for another 50 years. And so that's just not our business. I'm not looking to turn a quick buck. We put a lot of work into this. We're really committed to it. I know that's probably not the answer you want to hear, but I also know the. the logistics of this right we have to honor our contract with Mike by the time we would explore that that would create a lot of risk for us and a lot of risk for Mike and more than anything we're we're excited despite some of the pushback we've gotten we hope that we can earn your trust um you know we've done that before it's not the first time we've gotten pushed back um in the other places we've gone it's worked out really great where we've been embraced once we've been We've been open, so. I understand the interest in that. We wouldn't do it because it's just not our business. We're not, we're not, and I believe we even, I agreed to Mike. I told him and gave him my word that we wouldn't flip this property because he was willing to sell it to us for our use, and I want to honor that commitment. I don't think anyone inherently has a problem with your business. I think the city would happily welcome you. In another space, I mean, the pushback you're getting on what is is on what we're losing here, which is 81 years of history. Yeah, I personally went there as a kid, like with my grandparents to see movies and stuff. And I've been seeing shows there since 2002 when it when it opened. And I think that the experiences of I've had, you know, I hear everybody else echoing those sentiments. I'm also worried about the neighborhood, because without the live music venue, without all of those people coming. I've spoken with business owners in the area, and a lot of them are really concerned that this could lead to them losing their businesses because they're not having that traffic anymore. What do you have to say to them? Yeah, we're a large-scale business, so what we will build there is going to be bigger than the current Granada and Sundown, and we can accommodate. Great. About the same amount of people or more per day that a show at the Granada can hold. Every time we've gone into a location, we've stimulated the businesses around there. So I'm pretty comfortable that this will be a great value add for businesses and the community. So I understand that without knowing because you guys haven't been to Bath House and you don't know our business. But I mean, our finished product will be about 50,000, 55,000 square feet. And we can have a lot of people there at once. It's really hard for us to find the right venue for our products. This will get a little too nuanced, so I don't want to bore you. But, you know, we need a lot of parking in a place like Dallas. We need certain infrastructure for it to make sense. We had been looking in Dallas for over two years. Thank you. So this was a really special site that happened to work for us after a long and exhausting process. Okay. So that's why it all worked out. And look, you know, the last thing I'll say is... You know, it's interesting when we, uh, we have a big rooftop in Williamsburg, which is where our first location was. We built it. It was small and then we tripled the size of it. We took over this, we have this 120 foot long pool on the roof. And when we filed to build that, the neighbors came out. I mean, the first community board meeting I went to, there were over a hundred people there. They were lined up around the block and they were, they were really angry. They did not want us there because they were confused about what it was that whole community now. And there were a few A few key people, kind of like yourself, so we're at the forefront. They come all the time. I've gotten friendly with them. They text me. They love it. They told me, man, I'm glad that you guys open. And so I get it, you know, you have to, you have to earn this stuff. So all the questions are valid. Um, but look, our big responsibilities, I think we, we have to be, and we're up to the challenge of being the stewards of this epic iconic place that you went with your grandparents and has all this history. That's important to me. Whether you guys believe it or not, I'll prove it to you. And so, look, we can't operate a music venue. That's not my business. I kind of wish it was because that's pretty cool. But we will make a great experience that hopefully a lot of people will be really happy that it was there. And we'll preserve whatever history we can. And just to dovetail in on that for you, Casey, we run about 125 shows a year. So that's, you know, it's about three days a week. And so, you know, it'll be like Granada is firing on a Friday night every day of the week. So it'll actually help the businesses, I believe. And conversely, part of the challenges of trying to run a concert venue is this is the standard and the norm is you operate off of three days a week. So you think of any retail store that would try to operate three days a week. And they just, it wouldn't be successful. So that's yet another part of why it's so hard to run an independent venue. Yeah, that's a good point. I understand that. I think part of the disappointment is that if there was another entity that wanted to acquire it and attempt to do so, you're closing the door on that. And you talk about preservation of the inside. I mean, it was just a few years ago, a paint specialist came in, restored the paintings in there back to the way they appeared in 1946. Last night, one of your zoning guys, Mr. Baldwin, came to a meeting and stated that he would advise that we cut those out of the wall and sell them to the Jewel Hotel. Is that your sentiment as well? I haven't heard anything about that. You know, it's interesting. I was told that by many people, although I personally was unable to be in attendance. Okay, yeah, let me answer that. And I see there's a comment from Aaron in the comments. Our first priority is to preserve the spirit of the theater and the facade so that it feels kind of like it's always felt. And that's really important to us too. And we think it's really cool. So we're not going to do anything with that. The walls on the inside, I need to do a little more work on. We're going to dramatically change the programming on the inside. You know, I don't know the condition there. If it's on concrete, it may be really hard to remove those walls and preserve them to the extent that it's possible and it's feasible. I'm happy to work with people. You guys want a little piece of the wall? Like, if I can do something cool, I will explore that and give you my word that I will explore if that's possible. Sometimes with construction, when you start removing something, there's not a pretty way to do it. So I don't know the viability, but I will look into it and I give you guys my word. If you guys think those murals are cool, we will, as a function of what we're doing, not be able to repurpose those. But to the extent that they can be appreciated and we can do something with them, we're... We're happy to do that. So I'll get back to you guys on that. We have a long way to go before we do that, but we will not forget about that. Well, given your... Oh, go ahead, Kristen. And yeah, I just... Casey, really appreciate your questions. I just want to make sure that a couple other people have. Yeah, and I... Again, I don't think that anyone has animosity towards you. Maybe some people have spewed it that way. It really has nothing to do with you. If it was another guy in that seat telling us that they're going to do the same thing, I mean, this isn't personal. Yeah, no, I don't take it personally. Listen, I'm a music fan, and I'm a passionate guy, too. I understand why you guys are disappointed, because this venue has been amazing. And, you know, I think, so I, no offense taken there. I'm with you guys. I do wonder, though, given that this is overwhelmingly unpopular right now in the neighborhood, Boycotts, protests, things like that are planned. How do you plan to ingratiate yourself in the neighborhood or even overcome that when day one, everybody wants, they don't want you out. They want you to have never been there. Because if you do fail, the amount of money that it will take to throw into this place, you might not be able to find it. We could find it right now and save it as a venue. But if you do fail, after you throw a bunch of hot tubs in there, like, what are we going to... Where does that leave us? And what if the neighborhood does go down? I mean, it could be a disaster for East Dallas. Yeah, I think it shows the commitment that we're making to it and our confidence that we can deliver a great product. This isn't the first time we've done this business, but our business only exists with communities, and every one of these is a local business. It just is. We're not a chain. This isn't a Chipotle where we go in to four walls and do the same thing. We spend a... Incredible amount of time designing this thing about the community that we're building it for and trying to build something that people really enjoy. That's our risk. And I'm comfortable taking that. So I hope that people check it out. I think that the product will be great enough where people do that. And that's our burden to do. I see a question in the comments about the volatility of bathhouse business in a new market and what the exit strategy would be. We think about building a great product, and we've had this business reopen the first one seven years ago. We've got five of them open now. We've learned a little bit about this. So, you know, we're comfortable investing this money with our downside protection. And, look, guys, nothing is guaranteed. You know, it would be a real shame if people are so mad that we happen to be the suitor of an opportunity. Again, the Granada is not closing because we came in. If people protest it, that's a risk, right? Our goal is to deliver something awesome. Business is about creating value for others. It would be closing because of you if we came up with the money. But, Casey, I don't think you fully appreciate the economic side of it. I don't, but I don't do this. I'm a neuroscientist. But, Casey, let me just say one thing. Mike is an expert. Okay, I'll come in. Sorry, is somebody else trying to speak? Yeah. You know, my deal on the whole thing is there's an open building for lease just about a block up the road, and you're willing to take over a historic building that's been there for years and been a place of entertainment for years. There's a perfectly good building for your business up the road there for lease. Yeah. David, I really appreciate that. I've looked at almost every available property in Dallas, and there's certain reasons why certain things don't work for our business. And so look, Mike has explored the market because he made the decision to shut down the Granada long before we met or I knew about this property. And I've looked at a lot of other ones. So it's hard for us to find a viable one. This one is viable. um there's a lot of reasons why we can't work in other properties and look i get that you guys are disappointed i understand you guys are just hearing about this and so you assume we haven't done your homework i think the big message i want to deliver is we really have done our homework this has been a really thoughtful process um we did a huge amount of diligence to make sure that this worked mike did a huge amount of diligence because it was really important to him who he sold to I hope that you guys will give us a chance. You know, we do. I don't think it's a good use of time for us to sit here and explain seven years of context on our business, why this works for us, why the venue can't operate for Mike or any other venue owner. I hope you guys can take our word on that because we're putting in the time to show you our faces and give you the time that we feel you guys deserve, obviously. So I understand if there's some frustration about it. I understand this is an emotional thing. I really do. Thank you. But I promise you that this is not a fly-by-night thing, and if there was another... Look, this is a site where we knew how important this site was. If we didn't think it worked, or there was an easy way to go down, and Mike could keep operating, that would have been the case. Mike, do you not have any family members that could take over the Granada instead of letting Bath House take it over? Do I have family members? Yeah, do you have family members, since you're wanting out of this, do you have family members that would take it over for you instead of letting Bath House not even look at failure since the now up the road is virtually non-existent as far as business? I don't even know how to answer that. No, I don't have any family members. None of them live here in Dallas, and none of them have the ability to do what I do. And I think that extends a lot further than just, you know, my brothers and sisters. Can I make a quick comment? Because I actually can't be on here for too long. Hi, Mike. It is the first time I'm meeting you in person. It's really, really wonderful to meet you. And I also want to just speak to how incredible the past 22 years have been. It has been a huge, has had a huge musical impact on my life. And I'm a musician, my father's musician, lots of legacy musicians in my family. Hi, Travis. I'm a New Yorker. So, again, I've sent y'all messages. I just wanted to let you know my stance is that I'm an executive producer and executive director here in Dallas, an arts leader. You know, I just interviewed actually in June to be the director, the possible director for production and programming with the Forest Theater. I did not get that position, but I do feel like the universe is aligning me for something. More than anything, I just want y'all to know that I really care about spaces. I care about community, and I care about possibly keeping the Granada. Just the Granada, a performance space. I would love to initiate and bring money together, which I already have investors that are interested in creating a music hall of fame, which would honor Michael and Julia's work and all the bands that have come through there. I have some really, really neat ideas and I have a vision for that, how to coexist. I know that that may sound like a lot. I know it's a broader vision than what you and Travis have spoken about. I know that, you know, Robert showed up, we really appreciated that last night, and he spoke to zoning, so we also heard from Melissa. Yes, sir. who is our district 14 commissioner, I think like land commissioner, and so I just wanted to thank everybody, but please know that someone like myself has a grander vision. I wish more than anything that I know that you said three years ago that you would, you know, first started talking about this. I'm also on the board for the grant board for TACA, so I watched all of the theaters go through a tremendous amount of struggle through the pandemic and they were barely hanging on. but they hung on because they were a non-profit and they got grants. I know that that's a lot of work. I also have learned how difficult it is to land market, all of these things. I just want you to know I'm on board for whatever is going to happen, but I would personally love to send the vision board and the slide deck that I created to Travis. And to Michael, just so that you could just take a look at it. And just all I ask is that you exercise it, that you open the door to your heart and your soul, and you just think about the potential of more of a multi-use. That's all I'm going to ask for. I need to go. So thank you again so much for your time. I'll be in New York in a month, and I'll certainly, I've already put the bathhouse, you know, on my list to come in Flatiron and check it out. Again, it's not that, for me, it's not emotional. It's not personal. Yeah, we want to coexist, but I just would love to keep the Granada performance space. So that's all I have to say. Thank you so much. I will. Thank you. I will email you. Send us an email. Thank you for emailing. Absolutely. I will email it to you. And I just again ask that you invite. You invite it, you invite, you know, and you exercise just a broader thought process. Yeah, listen, we want to be a great member of the community and we want to do things to make people happy. So, you know, guys, I know, you know, we had originally planned to cap this to 30 minutes. I know we were late. We're coming up a little bit on time. I think the big sentiment is we understand how important this is to the community. We're going to do everything we can to try and make the community happen. it may not align with all visions but we're open-minded and we want to do cool stuff so um hopefully you guys can give us a chance and understand that mike knows the economics of the music business i understand why that's not viable i don't think it's because anybody doesn't want a music venue to continue but that was determined unviable multiple times over and so this is the best opportunity that Mike felt and we're really, you know, we feel really honored that we have this opportunity and we know the burdens on us to make an awesome place that hopefully you guys will enjoy. So look, we look forward to getting to know all you guys. Why don't I take one last question? Lori, I saw you raised your hand and you're just on mute. Yeah. Hey, I'm a news reporter for Channel 4 and I missed the top of the meeting, but can you describe what your business model is? Yeah, sure. Lori, how about if we circle up with you afterwards, just because we're a little over time here. Is that okay? Sure. We can get in touch with you. Okay. I think part of the reason this ran a little long is that the initial email that you had sent out to everyone, the link on there did not work. We had to get our council member from District 14 to send us the appropriate link so people could actually get in here, and I don't think most people got it. And Travis, I think we'd all like to hear the business plan, not just Lori Brown. Sure. So I can give you guys a quick overview. So we're a large scale admissions business. So people pay and we keep the cost really affordable, which is part of why scale is effective. For people to come in and use saunas, we have multiple different kinds of saunas. A lot of them are really big saunas, steam rooms, pools, hot, cold, neutral pools, and do contrast therapy. Contrast therapy is a really, really old practice. It's really cool because it works every time. You leave feeling different than when you came in. And people leave with endorphins and they're happy and they live longer and live a better life. And that's all been, if anybody wants to Google Finnish sauna study, they did a pretty amazing 21 year study out of Finland. That was pretty groundbreaking. And so we try and provide really great venues for people to do that. We work really hard to be the best in the market to have Best in market facilities that people enjoy. And then we try and bring a really high end, something that hadn't been done before, design standard and hospitality standard to these facilities. So that's what we do. So you come in and you get to choose your own adventure. You get to go to saunas and get hot and then go to cold pools and get cold. And then we do this programming that actually has a big music component. Um, called Aufguss, which is like a guided sauna sessions, really popular in our locations. People love it. I think there's some really cool ways to kind of tie to the history of, of Granada there that I'm excited for. Um, and so it's mostly an unguided experience that people kind of go and choose their own adventure and enjoy. And then there's a little bit of programming layered on. Um, we have a mix of indoor and outdoor facilities and that's our business. We create great venues and we work really hard to run them really professionally and well and. Hire great people that, you know, can be really friendly and help you guys enjoy the experience. And so it's a pretty simple business model. And Travis, have you looked at the demographics of our neighborhood to determine whether it's an actual viable alternative for this demographic and neighborhood? Yeah, this is a really big investment. We do a lot of diligence before we decide on this. So we've gotten really comfortable that there's a good market for this there. You know, what we're doing is novel to a lot of markets that we're going into. When we opened this in New York, there was nothing like it. You know, we just opened one in Philadelphia. They've never had. a facility like this. That was a really good reception. So, you know, we do our diligence and we wouldn't be doing this if we didn't think we could exist there. The last thing we want is for something to go in and take over such a historic and well-loved place and then have it go dark a couple years later. That's not going to happen. So, you know, we've got the resources to pull it off and we work really hard to listen. You know, a lot of how we built this. Business is listening to people and taking community feedback and trying to incorporate it into our products. So this is all really helpful for us. You know, we're learning a lot about the market as we go. And, you know, the onus is on us to build something really awesome that you guys love. Did any of those economic models happen to take into account the negative public sentiment or the impact it would have on the businesses around it? Yeah, I mean, listen, I know you seem optimistic because you've had success with this before. I'm not sure that you bought a place that so many people feel so connected to but a lot of people don't share your optimism. I understand and I think this is this is um you know some people that are passionate and Casey look I can tell that you've got some hostility about us opening and and I get that. I'm bummed I'm bummed at what I'm losing. I totally get it. Listen, man. I'm bummed at what you're losing too. I really am. I really am. I hear you. I can't say anything, but understand where you're at. Yeah. It has nothing to do with you. No, I get it, and I appreciate that. But look, again, two things sometimes can be true. I am bummed that you guys are losing the Granada. When I came in and was presented this opportunity, that was already a fact and a foregone conclusion. Except that if we get the money now, you would not be open to allowing us to preserve it. I gave Mike my word that if we did this, I was going to see it through. And, you know, it's really important to me that the young lady that had to leave early stated that the Granada and your business could coexist. But it doesn't sound that way. I want to take the whole building over and have your business there. That's our intent is the Granada was closing down. And the reason this works is that we're going to use the whole property for our business. There was never a plan to coexist that the economics of running The music venue has been proven unviable, and that's not the business I'm in. I don't know how to run a music venue. And that's where us that are interested in keeping the Granada alive as a music venue are trying to figure out a way to do this to keep you from taking over a part of history in Dallas. Well, listen, we don't take it lightly that we're taking over a part of history. I hope that can be understood and heard. Or it's. It's loud and clear, and we understand that. Um, guys, we probably have time for one more question. If there is one, then I'm sorry. I will have to jump in a few minutes. Um, Alicia, I see you raising your hand. She might be muted as well. I don't know. I was going to ask a short one. I was wondering if you have any intentions of actually moving to our community. Me? I'll spend a lot of time down there. I have, I have a family. I have two kids in New York and kids in school. So, um. I think Dallas is great. First time when I went down to visit Mike, I told my wife immediately, I called her, I'm like, let's move to Dallas. I love it down there. So I'll spend a lot of time down there. I won't move down there permanently because I have a family and we have roots in New York. But yeah, listen, you guys will see me. I'm excited to hopefully get to know all you guys. I love Dallas. Like that's not me BSing you guys. I mean, you guys have a great city. So we're We're pumped to be down there and be part of it, and again, look forward to earning all your guys' trust and hopefully do something that, you know, a couple years from now, you guys say, man, that's really a bummer that Granada closed, but man, this is pretty cool. I'm pretty excited this is here, too. Travis, I'm sorry my mic was not on. The question I just had real quick is just about kind of the long game on this. What is the exit strategy if this does not pan out the way that you're thinking it will? Well, we're committed to making this work. And so, um, you know, we don't, there's, I don't, I don't like to do things. It's not like, you know, we weren't committed to this. We'd say, oh, well, this doesn't work out. We're going to do this. We're committed to making a great product that we think people love. And so, um, that's not, that's not really something that I'm thinking about right now. You know, we're, we, we want to try and earn your guys' trust and build a great product that people like. And that's really where our head is at. Todd, I see you. And that's the last one. I think we'll have time for Todd. I think you're on mute. Sorry. I just can't hear you, Todd. I can see your lips are moving. I just can't hear the question. I'm really sorry, man. Guys, I really appreciate everybody showing up. I hope you guys, you know, appreciate how important this is to me and Mike, which is why we're here. Looks like Todd might be typing the question. Let's see. All right. Well, everybody, I really appreciate it. It was nice to meet you. I hope this was productive. You know, we're trying to give you guys as much information as we can. You know, I understand everybody's sentiment on this. It's heard loud and clear. You know, really appreciate Mike. You know, Mike's taking a big leap of faith. You know, made a big emotional investment in us as we have in him and the Granada. And so, you know, our plan is to do the best we can and try and be a really great part of this community. So hope you guys can give us a chance. And, you know, I'm sure we'll all be talking again. But really just appreciate everybody's enthusiasm and passion for this. And, you know, and I think it's a testament to what an amazing thing the Granada has been. So thank you guys very much. Well, and thank you for meeting with us. You know, it's helpful. Cool I'm glad it was helpful. Will you be holding another one since so many people were not able to attend because the link was wrong? I wonder if you would be willing to hold another one of these? Yeah let us think about that. What I'd like to do is is give you guys some further information. So maybe when there's time when we can show you guys renderings that are approved and stuff and we can talk through them. So let us come back to you. Look we're we're not trying to hide from it. You know, I hope that's apparent, you know, we're not, we're not going to get into the comments of, of, of stuff and, um, you know, um, but look, we're not hiding from you guys. We are, our goal is to be a great part of this community. So, um, thank you guys for listening. I really appreciate, um, you know, how cordial it is and, um, and also appreciate all your feedback. So all right, man. Take care of everybody. All right. Bye. Bye. Thank you.