More Big Bike Brands In Trouble ｜ The Global Mountain Bike Show Ep.15

You sceptical. Go on, go on, go on, go on, go on. We've finished that sentence. This is more like the podcast we want. High bike, different story. Well, because they were sort of innovators. They were the pioneers of e-mountain biking. We're going to have a huge deficit, aren't we? At one point, it was in the billions, wasn't it? I'm not sold on this in-frame storage that has been... Whoa. Raced an EWS on a Spice for a year or two, yeah. Race is a strong word, Reg. Hello, welcome to the Global Mountain Bike Show. Evolve or die, more big brands in trouble. Are bike parks changing according to the way we ride? If you were to design and have your own bike, what would be the three essential things it would have? Sounds like you did that off an We're off now to Keurig. No water you needed around here, Steve. Did you like that? You remembered all those words. All in a row. Wow. You guys are in shock. Very impressive. Thank you very much. How are we doing, boys? All right, good, yeah. Yeah? Yeah, even better for that. We're in depression now, Don. Well, look. We're going to put three sentences together. I know you will struggle with that. So basically, this has come up. Axel Group, which may not be a household name, but is the owner of... One of the biggest bike companies in the world, you mean? Well, it owns some big bicycle companies. Lapierre, Ghost, Highbike, Raleigh have filed for insolvency. It's quite a... Well, it's another bit of tumultuous news. I said this in the end of the show. You used that word in the show as well. I mean, it's been bad news coming for quite a while now in the bike industry since COVID, basically. And this is another big name. Obviously, Raleigh is a big name to British mountain bikers and cyclists in general. But we're talking Lapierre, Ghost, Highbike. I think some of those, I think LaPierre actually did like a post on Instagram to say they're trying to come out of this unscathed. Obviously, a lot of these brands will try and stay alive. Look down other avenues because Axel tried to get funding and failed and that's why he ended up in this situation. Shame, Nick, guys. I mean, rally, bike close to my heart. I mean, sure, all three of us. I had one as a kiddie. Did you? What did you have? Oh, I did. It was like a 14-inch tire. Was it that long or you can't remember? It was. Raleigh Mustang. I don't know. I got a picture of it but yeah, tiny little Raleigh. What you reminded me actually earlier, so I had a Raleigh chipper. I had a rally commander which some of the Best days of my life, riding off-road on. I had a bloody watch car, a Burner, a Raleigh Burner. A Burner, yeah, yeah. I had a Burner, yeah. Well, the Don just looked at it, it was 13 kilos, right? For a BMX. Yeah, that's a lot, isn't it? Well, look, 2023, Raleigh posted losses of £30 million. Oof, 23. We've also got more Raleigh. Not heritage. Me and you raced with Matt Farmer. Matt Farmer was on the rally team. A friend of mine, Matt Farmer, yeah. So back in the 90s, probably mid to late 90s, they actually had a downhill team with Matt Farmer and, oh, the Irish guy, I've forgotten his name. Glen O'Brien? No, no, John Lawler. Lawler rode for Raleigh, didn't he? Who's now Vital Raw. Yeah, yeah. So they kind of, you know, pulled out of downhill probably then, sort of turned, you know, 2000, I would have thought. But, you know. They did have a big team and they stopped with the mountain bike development and obviously Raleigh kind of faded out of view for us. Yeah, they just went to kids bikes. And it made me think about the other names we're talking about here. So Ghost, I actually worked in a bike shop for a sort of 12 months in between jobs. And they used to sell a lot of Ghost trail bikes. Sorry, can I interrupt you? What jobs were you in between exactly? So in between my downhill career and my enduro career, I had to face the reality of not being a pro mountain biker. I worked in a workshop and then became a coach. Anyway, they sold a lot of Ghost trail bikes. And then I kind of didn't see many of those. Obviously, they did and they still do have an active cross-country race team. Yes. Yeah, well, that's morphed into, like, the Lapierre team now, but it's a very successful women's team, especially. And you reminded me they had Isabeau Cajurier on a really nice-looking Enduro bike. Are we talking Lapierre now? No. Ghost. Oh, yeah, sorry. No, yeah, it's all right. I'm moving on. Yeah, sorry. We got confused because the Ghost XC team morphed into Lapierre. Right, and then Lapierre. And also, so Lapierre had Loïc Bruni. I mean, Lapierre was massive. Massive. Yeah, yeah. Vergier was on it. Finals was on it. What's matey boy? Blankensop was on it. The good enduro rider was in matey. Adrian Daly. Daly was on it, yeah. But I remember, I don't think Loic won a World Cup, did he, on a Lapierre? I remember getting one of the, actually Lapierre were reluctant to give me one of their downhill bikes because it wasn't quite finished. It was pretty heavy, it was pretty steep. But I think Lapierre made some amazing downhill bikes over the years and they had, You know, they had Nico Vouilloz, who was one of their key ambassadors. And then I've had many glasses of wine with Gilles Lapierre over the years. So did they just sort of slip out of mainstream view? Because I think their downhill team winded up in about 2015. Well, to answer the question, actually. Yeah, I think it was about 2015. So downhill was like one part of Lapierre. You know, Lapierre had some amazing trail and enduro bikes. They had the Zesty and the Spicy. Spicy, yeah. They set the standard during the... I had a spicy. Yeah, I raced an EWS on a Spicy for a year or two, yeah. Race is a strong word, Reg. Rich? Talk is a strong word for you, you cheeky monkey. Well, that's kind of my point, is that Rally would go back in the Alps for us, but Ghost and Lapierre, to me, are brands that maybe have not evolved with the times. It's all arms. Obviously, there are bigger issues in the bike world at the moment, and have been for a while, but have they kept up with the pace? You see that. Or is it, I mean, this is talking from my perspective, British market. They could be massive in Germany, the continent, as far as I know. Just from what I'm seeing in the UK, I've not seen many Ghosts or Lapierres for a long time. Yeah, not for a while, but Lapierre were definitely on a definitely upslope, upward trajectory. Well, they even redesigned their XC bike, the XR, this year. So actually, it had a full revamp. When you're talking about bikes which are really ahead of the developmental curve, like Julio's had a bike with a battery in the center of the bike. Nobody else has done that, right? And it makes total sense because when you rode that e-bike, the weight distribution front and rear was amazing. It was an e-bike where you could pick the front up and the back up. It's a great bike and it's a real shame, I think, that it's called a GXLP. It was dog ugly, though. I don't think it was. It was dog ugly. I don't think it was. Steve, you're wrong. Okay. So anyway, on to the Haibike. Haibike, different story. Well, because they were sort of innovators. So they were the pioneers of e-mountain biking. And I would argue that actually now their current range is actually pretty good. You know, you've got Pinion, belt drive, gearboxes and all sorts. So. Where did they sort of drop off in the middle, potentially? I don't think they did, did they? Is that the one? There is a story with Haibike. And so basically, Haibike were a partner in EMBN in 2017. Me and the Don have been on some great adventures on those bikes. Thanks They, you know, let's... Rewind even before that, right back to 2011, 2012, they came out with the first sort of mountain bike, really, I guess, with the Bosch motor. I remember it, yeah. They tilted the motor on it so the bike could be higher off the ground very because the Bosch motor was quite low. Then they had idler bikes back in 2013. much. I think I've still got one. They made a downhill. downhill e-mountain bike. Yeah, that triple flat one, I remember. 2014. I mean, how many downhill e-bikes have we seen? So they were very much ahead of the curve. I was actually with Susie and Felix Puello, who were the people behind that company. They're now Raymon Bikes. So, you know, what was great about Haibike is they had Bosch Motors, they had... Yamaha Motors, but to answer your question, they came out, they made a massive splash. Sorry. I forgot what the question was. It was. There was a question in there. Thanks for the reminder. Kinda. Sorry. Eurobike 2018, they came out with a high black fly-on. High bike fly-on, sorry. It had a TQ HPR 120 motor in it, which was four kilos. It was very much a sort of SUV bike, wasn't it? Sounds like a pair of jeans. Yeah. A fly-on. I mean, I shouldn't be saying this, but I remember some people saying, yeah, people who used to buy the fly-on, they used to ride up to the top of the mountain. Have a schnitzel and 10 pints of beer and then ride back down the mountain on the mountain road. You had a fly on, didn't you? Is that what you would have had then? I mean, it doesn't sound that bad. I think they had problems with it. So maybe is it a case that the market... People can't wheel in and down mountains after some time. Is the problem then that... We'll stick with e-bikes a little bit. The markets are moving so fast. I wonder if high bike might be just a... A victim of the overall group's business, if you know what I mean? I'm sure some of these businesses were probably doing fine, but the overall group, Axel, wasn't, and they've been taken down with them. Obviously, I have not seen the book, so I don't know this, but there must be a case of that in some of these brands. I mean, we're talking a huge deficit, I mean, within Axel Group. Who's that? I should imagine it's not a small amount. Yeah, at one point it was in the billions, wasn't it? Well, hang on. I mean, Raleigh posted losses of £30 million. In 23 alone, so, you know, that's just... Not insignificant. And there are more bike brands than the ones we're talking about. There are lots of other smaller, obscure ones I read as well, so... Yeah, but I guess the bottom line, it's really sad, right? Yeah. And they really hope they find their way, but... I agree. Some of them, yeah, I hope you'll see some of these brands carrying on. Well, on the evolve or die note... That's a big statement, Rich. What's the count of that? Evolve or die. It's hydrate or die, isn't it? Well, that is true, because if you don't drink, you will die, Don. That is true. Try it. But if you do drink, you'll die as well. Uh... I was going to say, Steve's an advocate for just drinking a lot and staying alive. I'm just... Evolve or die, when it comes to bike parks and the way we ride these parks, we're seeing them adapting and changing, right? I'm going to throw this one to you a little bit more, Don, off the back of a few videos and places you've been lately. Dyfi Bike Park, Whistler Bike Park in obviously Canada, Dovey in the UK, or Wales. Llandegla Bike Park. Now, these places are making e-bike specific zones, areas, and trails, right? Yeah, well, Dyfi are saying that their sort of terminology is e-bikes unlocking the bike park, which I think is true. Yeah, I think they're in phase one of a longer process of making it more bike park friendly. So at the moment, they've opened up some trails above the drop-off, if you know it. Yep. So super easily pedal-uppable, if that's a saying. That is not a saying. On an e-mountain bike. And then they are moving into phase two where you can, then once you're dropping down the mountain, you can link up trails. So you might not have to go all the way to the bottom. So you can ride one of your favourite trails and then link over to the other side of the mountain for another. Yep. I've just been in Worcester, which has been great. I've been doing the Bosch EMTB Challenge, which is, you know, I've been very sceptical about e-bike racing. And I'm still not 100% sure that it's a spectator sport, but it is a very fun participation sport, I've got to say. The trails, the layout they have there was amazing. And also what it showed me is that in the, you know, it's a short trip, we're only in the bike park, we're in Whistler for three days, and actually I rode one bike park trail. So I didn't use the ski lift once. Yeah. We rode one of the trails, you know, is it the... Fitzsimmons, you know, that side of the hill. Actually, I rode up the old GLC drop. It's stage one of the EMTB race. And then you drop down one of the other trails. And then you just head off. Into the unknown. North it is, maybe, over to Blackcomb and rode some unbelievable trails over there. And obviously, Whistler is a popular spot, but there are trails everywhere. And a lot more trails to be paddled than there are uplifted, if you know what I mean. The ski lifts do take you to a huge riding zone, but there's so much more that people have obviously been doing for years on enduro bikes, you know. I'm not chomping at the bit. You are, I can see you are, because I've got thoughts on why I think bike parks are, you know, it's business related, isn't it? It's a market that they want to tap into. That's exactly what I was thinking. I was thinking this term, unlocking the bike park, seems like a monumental... Oh, we're trying to do it for the riders. It's a monumental piece of marketing. You don't want to lose money, right? A monumental piece of marketing. Hang on, hang on. Hang on more. And what's wrong with that? What's wrong with making bike parks more accessible for more people? You sceptical... Go on. Go on, go on, go on. Go on, go on. Go on, go on. This is more like the podcast we want, I think. I think they're just moving with the times. If there are more e-bike riders, you know, I'm not saying, I still would love to go to Whistler and ride a mountain bike. Okay, my point is, what does unlocking actually mean? It just makes it, I think it offers more for e-mountain bikers. What exactly? More trails. More time riding your bike. Surely the bike park is accessible for anybody. It doesn't unlock anything. You can go anywhere you want in the bike park on any bike. You can, but obviously... Bike parks have opening times and there's a certain amount of, a finite amount of riding you can do. So hold on, hold on. Are you suggesting that Dovey Bike Park will be open any, at all hours for e-mountain bikers? No, that's exactly what I'm not suggesting. What I'm saying is if it's open, I don't know, 10 till 4, you can only ride on a regular mountain bike. You could pedal at all, sure, but you're not going to get as much riding. Okay, my second point is actually what I... I didn't, did that suffice? Peace. No. I would like to see bike parks... providing some e-bike infrastructure in terms of uphill infrastructure. I think they've been pitifully slow about it in adapting. Like, you know... As in charging facilities? No, no, uphill technical climbs. Oh, okay. I mean, it's funny because I was told by the owner of another bike park that nobody's into uphill climbing. And I don't, I actually kind of agree. I would agree as well. But it's our job to sort of, you know, to... To inspire people to get the most out of the systems on the market. Now, like, you know, the Shimano or the Bosch, they allow you to do so many different types. But we're different, I think. I think the trouble is we like... You're different for sure, Richard. Oh, thank you. And the Don. I'm going to throw the Don in on this. You know, we ride motorbikes. We like a good technical climb. I don't love motorbikes. Agreed. But I think most people like to sort of... Zip their way up in turbo, do laps. I love to do that as well. Someone in the comments said about ski resorts doing this. There was a time when they were banning snowboards when they were coming about. And eventually they commercially decided that was a bad idea and they should... Embrace snowboards, which the skeptics could moan about all day. But actually, what's so bad about them finally saying, yeah, all right, let's embrace this new part. I think my wife is saying that the Cairngorms was opening the chairlift for more mountain bikers and you can hire e-bikes and you can do a chairlift and ride on an e-mountain bike and go ride down the valleys. The times have changed. It is evolve or get left behind, right? But, yeah, in terms of infrastructure that they're providing, I think it is still hideously thin on the ground. You know, there's a lot in mainland Europe. Obviously, a place like Finale, I've seen chairlifts all over the place. Actually, I got engaged to the missus there. Did you? Yeah, yeah. Whereabouts? In the piazza. Oh, nice. Okay. She said yes, by the way. Give us a bit more information. I mean, did you have a ring? Yeah, I had a ring. Did you really? Yeah, dropped down on one knee. Did you really? Will you marry me? Yeah. In front of the big archway, for those who don't know. Oh, nice. That's cute, isn't it? And she did say yes, luckily. Right. And how long after you did that did you get married? Oh, we're still not married. All right. Are you serious? Yeah, I'm serious. When did you do this, then? Oh, don't, oh no. Yes, we'll be testing Rich's wife on this. Amy, I'm sorry, maybe three years ago? Three years ago! Yeah, but in the meantime, I have put a new roof on the house and done the lean-to. Yeah. So, Don, anyway. You need to unlock this promise. I promise. We've all won that one. I'm a dead man when I go home. Sorry, Nick. There was a comment from someone called Corren Sol, says, Sentiers de Mulan in Quebec. Quebec City has charging points. Crikey, you've spent a bit of time in Canada, haven't you? At the top of the mountain. Well, France, actually. At the top of the mountain for e-bikes. So, obviously, we have our view on where we know and where we go. But it sounds like there's quite a few North American commenters saying about how their bike parks are. Still resistant, though, right? Squamish is a great example. Well, yeah, I spent a couple of days either side of the trip in Squamish. Oh, here we go. And didn't ride a bike. You've been on some adventure recently? I haven't been on an adventure. Don has been on the most amazing adventure with Louis. And there was, you know, I still got the vibe from some of the more hardcore riders. They were... I'm reluctant to embrace e-mountain bikes. However, our hotel, in the sort of lobby of our hotel, there's a bike shop with a coffee shop in it as well. And I sat there one morning, and all I could hear was the phone ringing over and over again, and it was people booking e-bike demos. Really? Honestly, I must have heard five calls in ten minutes. I think what bike parks are going to be mindful of is the fact that on an e-bike, you can go and ride any trail anywhere. So they need, you know, because most mountain bike sales these days are e-bikes, they want to be making sure that the mountain bikers of the future are still coming to the bike parks. Because actually, and do you know what? Joking aside, Don, in terms of unlocking. I can't tell when you're joking or not. Okay, well, okay, I'm being serious, right, is the fact that a bike park or a trail center is a really good resource for lots of people because there's a cafe there. There's a certainty to a trail center. If you're limited on time, you know you can go to a trail center or a bike park, and you know you're going to get, and that's a great thing. And, and, and, and, big one is some of these, like Whistler or Dovey, have world-class trails. If it comes to a certain type of trail, which is big jumps, really progressive mountain bike trails, it's only these places that have them. And for me, that is very attractive. I love riding that stuff, and I've done less of it since I've had a mountain bike. An e-mountain bike, shall I say. And I do want to do a bit of everything. And that's the place where I can go and get it. I think if you're looking at the future of mountain biking, you're looking at the sales at the minute, there's a certain demographic going by on e-mountain bikes. And I think I'd like to see people being able to ride more blues and green trails. That's an accessibility. Because if you look at our local trail center, Pedal Away, Right, it's got 10. Severe black graded trails, which are downhill trails, and it's got one blue and it's got one green, I think. So I think it'd be good to provide more of those trails for more people. I think there's like a new one called Old Bobs, I think. And like people, honestly, we filmed this so many times and it's absolutely chock-a-block with kids and people new to mountain biking That's the other thing about Whistler, which is easy, well, easy for me to forget. I've not been there for a while. But the... There's a s- a s- So much other trail there, like in the Lost Lake part and the other side of the road. It's good up there, isn't it? So much. It's so good up there. The outer area of there is humongous. And a lot of it is really accessible for families. So I'm not just saying e-bikes for everything, but there's just trails everywhere for everyone. Do you know, I did the Enduro World Series in 2013. Not 13, no. I did it in 13, and I'll tell you another story from that. Anyway, the... The route was amazing. I'd love to go back there and do that. Anyway, the funny story I got, it was like, I was in the woods, I was shooting the event. Next thing I heard, this guy on a microphone in the middle of the woods, and he's going, Bob! I'm sitting there like this in the middle of this and thinking, crikey, there's live commentary back to Whistler Bike Park. I said, Brett, are you linking that back to the bike park? He goes, oh no, no, I'm just talking to myself in the woods. I'm like, oh my God. He's off his chops though, isn't he? That's the trouble. All right, well look, before Steve tells us another story, let us know in the comments below, is your local trail center or bike park embracing change, e-bikes, charging, et cetera, or are they a bit stuck in the mud? Right, out with Steve, in with James, because I want to talk about the bike industry these days seems flooded with all sorts of bikes from all sorts of manufacturers from all walks of life. But if you were to buy or make your own bike, what are the sort of essential things? What sort of few things would you want on it? Because there's so much to choose from nowadays. We're almost spoilt for choice. Go on, Neil. You've been in the industry longer than me. Well, we've all got a bit different backgrounds. Obviously, Neil's done a lot of downhill. I've raced a lot of enduro, XC. We all do a bit of everything now. I feel like we got a well-rounded kind of view on it. Yeah, I really like adjustable geometry. I've been able to choose how I set up the bike, particularly like chainstay. I like having potentially a bit longer chainstay on a bike. And I really like mixed wheel size. However, most bikes, well, a lot of bikes now will give you a flip chip so you can run a full 29 if you want it. Yeah, that's fairly common almost. However, I'd probably stick mixed wheel size. But yeah, there's a few things I look for. I'm not sold on this in-frame storage that has been... Whoa! It's been a couple of years of that's kind of the only innovation with some bikes. You get the new model, what's different? Oh, it's got in-frame storage. That's about it. It's not something that like... Changes your life, but I find it handy. Coming from someone who always used to wear Lycra kit, so I had like a road jersey with three pockets on, then got told that if I'm going to ride trail bikes, you've got to wear like a t-shirt. I'm like, where the hell do I put my food? Well, you're not sticking that in your frame, surely? Dude, I've put a sandwich in a frame before. I can normally get like four to eight Rice Krispie squares. Do you remember Sassio where I pulled a baguette out of my frame? So I put my food in there and then like, Like, because I don't want... I don't mind, but if you're just nipping out for an hour, I don't want like a hip pack on or a camelback. So it's nice actually just having a bit of frame storage. Yeah, saves up for the biggest. And you're just like, it's nice to ride just in a shorts and t-shirt. We'll stick with you, James. What else would you like to see if you were to buy your own bike or design your own bike? What one feature? I'm going to put my consumer hat back on again. Because there's a few things now that I'm gifted bikes that I really like. But actually, a few years ago, if I was paying my hard-earned cash for it, I wouldn't want. And one thing I really like if I'm a consumer is like everything is modular and by that I mean bars and stems can be interchanged. You don't have to have like brand specific stems. Yeah. So there's quite a few brands now of like this is going to be another one for a lot of us with like internally routed cables through the headset. This is especially on XC bikes. On XC bikes and you can only run their like brand manufacturer stem and I like to just get a bike and go oh you know what I'll try an 80 mil stem on that and I can go on eBay find a stem for 10 quid bang it on and go actually I want to go back to my 90 but now these days like some brands because of the way it's rooted you have to run their specific stem yeah it's more expensive it's a pain in the ass sorting it it's nice just go I'll try that handlebar I'll try that stem same with like a few other bits like some brands like have specific seat posts that you need for their bikes it's nice if you can just get anything I think I would tend to agree with you there that certainly on the bar stem thing, it can be very frustrating getting an exact fit and that bike to feel exactly how you want it. Especially, I find actually more with bars when it comes to upsweep and backsweep. Especially if you're doing long rides on it where it puts pressure on your hands where you don't want them. So I would tend to agree with you. What do you think, Neil? Yeah, normal set of bars every day of the week. So you don't mess it around. Just changeable bars, right? Actually, I like a lot of alloy stuff nowadays as well, to be honest. You know, having been spoiled rotten with carbon bits and pieces and wheels, you know, rims and... And bars, actually, for the most part, you know, I quite like aluminium rims, quite like the way they feel. Same with bars. However, probably on a carbon frame is quite a nice balance of comfort and not getting too weighty on things. Yeah, I think the weight is, for me, is quite key. Yeah, until last week, I didn't run a set of alloy wheels in 10 years. And I don't know, I'm never good at being able to tell stuff on my bike, but I didn't hop on and go... Oh, I noticed like the difference in feeling. Yeah, it depends if you're battering down trails or not. You don't normally... Don't look at me. Don't look at me. I sort of mean, you know, where you're riding, not necessarily, you know, what you're doing on them. But, you know, if you're out somewhere where it is rough and you're doing repeated runs, I do feel it's like aluminiums. Yeah. Safer. It's cheaper, safer, and actually feels better as well when it comes to rims. Yeah, like, I think... I do like the way the carbon wheels feel and stuff. Mm-hmm. If they go wrong, it's generally catastrophic. Metal can get you out of trouble. So something for me that I would always want an internal routing. Sounds it, but not through the headset. Yeah, I was about to say. So I've got a propane tie trail, and it's internally routed through the frame. Clean, real nice, maintenance-free for the best part, but it doesn't go through the headset, which means swapping stuff out. It does become a whole lot easier. Have you got one of those tiny little anodized tools? It's a SRAM one. It's like a little metal thing with a hole in it and threads either end. One's opposite a thread and it winds into your... Park Tool do your one as well. So you pull it through. It winds in. It's completely flush to your hoses and then you can just pull. That's like the... Honestly, I keep that as my one tool. I keep it really safe. I haven't actually used it for a while but it's a game changer if you ever have to mess it up. I like internally routing if it's well thought out. And I've had some bikes, specific to XC bikes again, where you have a remote lockout for the rear shock. And it's like they must have thought about it five minutes. And it comes out of the frame here and the shock's there. And I'm trying to like take my shock off to service it. And then I've frayed the cable about 94 times trying to put the shock back in. So it's just thoughtful cable routing. Thoughtful cable routing, I think. Yeah, I know what you mean. And I've had like certain brands that I've got like. The brake hose is routed like in a stupid position so every time like the frame grows or when the suspension like compresses it doesn't work. I think more and more manufacturers now are cottoning on to what consumers actually want when it like we went through a crazy period of like Trying all these obscure things and geometries that went mental, long, low, and slack. And, you know, I feel like on a lot of bikes we're seeing headset-routed cabling sort of slowly disappear, or the option. I think a good example of, like, the industry settling down is, like, brands are fitting threaded bottom brackets. Like, I remember... Almost standard. On, like, it was always, like, stupid, oh, we're fitting a press fit because it's 1% stiffer and 1% lighter. And even, like, Specialized on their Epic a few years ago were like, Yeah, this is the lightest cross-country race bike in the world, but we've whacked a threaded BB on again because it's way better. Stuff like that, you're just like, thank you. It's a smart choice. Yeah, it is. It is. Right. Moving on ever so slightly, or coming at it from a slightly different angle, is sort of configurators. Now, this could be choosing parts or actually customising your frame. Now, we're seeing manufacturers, and I use Atherton as kind of the best example of this, where you can actually configure Your bike. I think there's more of that. Orbea do have a really good My Opropane, I think, do it? Yeah, so those are configurators for parts, right? But not the actual frame. Atherton, you can actually choose some of the lengths. Can you choose your race day and your... Yeah, you can actually choose the dimensions of your bike slightly. I think that's great, but also that is something that could be abused. You could copy that. I didn't know what I was doing until about... I don't know what I'm doing. You could spend a lot of money on a bike that actually you'd rather someone else choose. So they do it, so there's suggested sizing, but you can say, well, I mean, and I don't think they'll do it where you go, I want a 600 mil reach kind of thing, something stupid like that. Your mate might need that. Yeah, the six or eight dude potentially, but... So there are parameters, but the fact that consumers can now even customize their, not just the parts of their bike, but their actual bikes with various brands is pretty cool. That's quite interesting, isn't it? Like with surfboards, you can get a custom surfboard made to exactly how you want it. Yeah. That's quite interesting. But I think we're only seeing that more on brands where it's... ...materials that are weldable or bondable, as you say. It's like lug design. Yeah, exactly. The process of manufacture makes it probably... 100%. You're not doing, like, carbon moulds for every person. But I do, like, if I was buying a bike, I do really like a configurator for parts as well. Yeah. Because quite often, like, it used to be Fox and Shimano and SRAM and RockShox. Yeah. And sometimes I'd want a Fox fork, but a SRAM groupset and stuff like that. Well, I like a Magura brake, so I expect, like, my Propane. Don't look at me like that, Don. I like the way they work. I don't like looking after them. Yeah. You don't have to look after them. When's the last time you looked after them? Just last week. Oh, yeah. It's nice to be able to just go, oh, you know what, I'll pick that, and colours, even just stuff simple like that. Or, like, small logo, big logo. Like, propane, you can make it real stealthy if you want. Or I can have the logo, like, massive. Yeah, yeah, okay. All right. Let us know in the comments down below, what are the three things, if you're going to build your own bike or configure your own bike, make your own bike, adjust it, adapt it in any way, let us know in the comments down below. From us on the Global Mountain Bike Show this week, cheers, boys. It's been fun. Thanks for having me. Thank you very much for watching. We'll see you later. See you.