Europe riots: 'I'm FRIGHTENED this will come to Britain' as Andy Burnham's priorities questioned

So why are you still here? I love this country. You can't just keep spending money and spending money and adding to the credit card without consequences. Well, I think we are going to have an economic crash without a doubt, because as you say, we cannot keep going on like we're doing. Look, I've got two boys. One loves Jeremy Corbyn, the other likes Donald Trump. You know, he could get further apart. Well, I don't think so. I honestly think Nigel Farage will be a fantastic Prime Minister. I really do believe that. I want the best for this country. And I can see how great it can be again. And looking at what's going on in Europe, I'm frightened it's going to come here, Will. Hello and welcome to Fire at Will. I'm Will Kingston and what a pleasure it is to be joined by GB News fan favourite, socialite, former WAG columnist, political commentator, mum, Lizzie Cundy. Lizzie, welcome. What an intro, Will. Thank you. Did I miss anything there? Author. Did you say that? I was in a musical, WAG the musical. Former Bond girl. Former Bond girl. I've done it all. Well, you have done it all and that's why I wanted to chat to you because we've done several shows together now. I hear your political views every week, which are insightful and entertaining, but I think your personal story is one of the great modern British entertainment and media stories. Oh, thank you. You know, how you go from, as I said, you know, that term, which sometimes has a negative connotation, but for you I see it in a positive light, socialite in inverted commas, it girl, to being one of the most respected political commentators in this country. So I want to understand you, Lizzie. You know, I want to get my Parkinson on. I want to understand you. Thank you. That term, as I said, socialite is an interesting one. Yeah. And again, sometimes it's used in a faintly derisory way. You know, it could be seen as being a bit. Vague, a bit lacking in substance. How do you feel when you hear that term and you're referred to as a London socialite? I don't mind any term anyone gives me. I find it hilarious, to be honest. I mean, I was always called the original wag, which I thought made me sound very old. But I made a living out of it. I thought, hey, there's business in here. And I did a musical called Wag the Musical. I did a book. I did a show where I went round footballers' wives' houses, I was on Footballers' Wives, a drama series, really I milked it for all it's worth, and socialite, well, I'm invited to every party basically, but I used to do OK TV, so I used to get the interviews and was part of that. Back then, so I did get every invite. So I understand it as socialite, but I quite enjoy it. I don't mind any name anyone wants to call me. It's interesting because it's interesting how you saw the business opportunity in that term WAG and the... The coverage that you've got on the back of it, I imagine this is before reality TV. This is before it becomes almost a genre with shows like Real Housewives, for example. Yeah. In many ways, you blazed the trail for what became an entire industry in this country and in the US. Well, yeah, I mean, when I was married, they weren't, you know, first got married, we didn't have mobile phones, I don't think. So there was no social media, none of that. And I just could see there was a business. The papers were writing about these footballers' wives everywhere. They were front page. And I thought, you know what, there's an interest there. So I somehow got in touch with the England manager and I said, look, I want to cover the World Cup. And I will distract. You don't want your footballers on the front page. You want them on the back page for the right reasons. I will help you do that. And Sven, who was the manager at the time, said... This is genius, let's do it. So I went out there, reported, you know, went to Baden-Baden where the girls really, it was crazy. It was like the Beatles had come to town. And I was there with them reporting, doing every newspaper, every channel and loved every minute of it. Were you covering the football or were you covering what happens behind the scenes of the football? Well, I was doing a bit of both, to be honest, but the interest was in the girls. They wanted to know what they were wearing, who they were with, what designer handbag they had. And they knew, you know, if their partner scored the goal, the camera would go on them. So I did a bit of that. But I knew the players, knew John Terry, you know, Wayne Rooney. And it was great. And I'd help the girls out if their partners got in trouble, which they, you know, fairly did most of the time. And I became kind of like the WAGs arm. The WAGs arm. The WAGs arm. I love it. It's interesting you had that insight into football culture in the 90s and early 2000s. You know. Talk me through what that was like. Talk me through, again, sometimes, again, there are very negative associations with that sort of culture in terms of what the money can do to those types of young men who many of the time don't have a lot of education behind them, thrown into the big leagues when they're still not fully developed as human beings. How did you reflect on that culture and how do you think it's perhaps changed, if at all, in 2026? Well, I mean... Jason, my ex-husband, wasn't on those huge big bucks. I mean, I mean, still great money. But you've got to realise, from the age of seven, they are told what to do, you know, training and all of that. It's just football, football, football. Thank And, you know, you're with a footballer that doesn't know how to pay their phone bill or know about mortgages or anything like that because all they think and breathe is football. Well, and And... I'm not saying, you know, feel sorry for the footballers' wives, but it can be quite tough and you can leave, you know, where you're home at a drop of a hat. you. They change clubs, change schools. You have to get to know someone. Going into that players' bar is like the first day of school and it can be quite bitchy, let's put it that way. And other players want the position of your husband's position, you know, and it's quite cutthroat. Yeah. But I could see the good and I could see it. Football is a business and there's no sentiment in football. There's a lot of money. But I think sometimes footballers think they're invincible and they can do what they want, throw money at it. I kind of could see it for what it was. I never took it seriously, but I could see there was money to be made out of it and the wag culture. So I kind of made the most of it. As I said, I did even a musical in the West End called Wag the Musical. It did better than Simon Cowell's musical. It was sold out. So, you know, I've always loved drama and dancing and singing. So I kind of just made the money out of what I could see, which everyone was talking about at the time. But I'm good at reinventing myself. I can't even be good at that, Will. What's your current stage of reinvention? How would you frame that today? Well, I love the politics side. My father was an art director with Saatchi and Saatchi, a big advertising agency. I used to work for M&C Saatchi, but they're not the offshoot of Saatchi and Saatchi. Oh, wow. And he worked with Margaret Thatcher. He did the campaign, Labour Isn't Working. So at my house we had many politicians. I had a huge interest. My favourite show was Question Time. It was a little girl. It was a lot better then than it is now. No, the best time. We went very often with Robin Not We won't vote you off. This was when BBC was slightly more respectable. Exactly. And I, you know, just had a huge interest. And there were a lot of celebrities who did adverts. So I was very at ease at a young age with people that were famous or politicians and always had an interest. So I think that's where I, you know, love. You know, doing a bit of politics and commentating and doing shows with you, Will. Absolutely. Well, interestingly, so your father was on the creative side of the marketing business. Again, it's interesting that the Saatchis were, I think Maurice Saatchi was the Conservative chairman. So Whereas today, marketing is seen very much as a left-leaning industry. That's quite unusual when you look back now to think of, you know, so that marketing doyen on the conservative side of politics. you, And marketing on the creative side, I would suggest, is even more left-leaning. So how did you gravitate to the right, given that that sort of creative sphere you would Tim. normally associate with the left? Well, my dad was more on the right. And as I said, he worked with Margaret Thatcher, and he did that great campaign that, you know, Labour isn't working with the queue of unemployed people. and My mother was a Liberal Democrat and I just remember as a little girl going, you know, my dad would have a sign for the Tories and my mum would have the Lib Dems on the other side of the window and it was very confusing. It's amusing. I think at that stage the Liberal Democrats actually kind of stood for something a bit more. You know, when they said they actually took the Liberal bit seriously you. in terms of individual freedoms and civil liberties. Paddy Ashdown was a very serious figure. Thank you very much. They weren't the... Joke, I would argue, that they are now. Exactly, they weren't a joke. They weren't going and like Ed Davey is in water parks, dressed, you know, he thinks like he's campaigning to the under sevens, I think. They don't have a vote, Ed, I realise. So, no, and... I, you know, I was kind of central, right, always have been, and though I did vote for Tony Blair, that was my one big mistake, I'll be honest, but look, you know, I've always had an interest in politics, and my dad was very vocal. And I loved having different points of view. We'd have dinner parties and they'd have proper rows and debates at the table. And I love that. And that's what GB News does, really. You know, good debates. And then after the show, we're all still friends. We may not agree, but we're still mates. Well, that's an interesting question as to how the culture perhaps has changed for the worse. In the dinner party where you can have political debates with people who disagree with you. Look, maybe I'm going to the wrong dinner parties, but I feel like increasingly it is harder to do that in this day and age. I think maybe Brexit was a catalyst for these sorts of conversations taking on a more toxic personal edge to the extent now that if you were to have an Islington cocktail party, I would suggest that if you were to come in with a particular set of views, let's say GB News views, There isn't that same good-natured discussion from people who disagree with each other. There's something that's changed in the culture that says, if you disagree with me, you're not merely wrong, you're a bad person. Do you think I just touched you? We have divided without a shadow of a doubt, and I've got a lot of friends in showbiz. And they say to me, Lizzie, please don't bring up politics or don't talk about Nigel Farage or reform or who you want to vote for, because it does divide and people get very hot-headed about it. And, look, I've got two boys, one... loves Jeremy Corbyn, the other likes Donald Trump, you know, you couldn't get further apart. But we decide not to talk about politics when we're out. I find that fascinating. I'm going to put a pin in that just for now, but I'm going to get back to how you can actually raise kids in the same environment, they've got the same genes, and they can split off like that. I find that fascinating. But before we do, you mentioned your particular views in an industry, again, where having high status opinions is important. And, you know, You know, high status opinions in this country means... Pro-Remain, it means that sort of progressive centre-left establishment, let's all be warm and nice and kind to each other nonsense. How have you observed as a very prominent figure in the entertainment and media realm in this country with, I would suggest, unfashionable views? How do you navigate that? Well, there's a lot of champagne socialists, shall we put it that way, who love the lifestyle. They all love to be on a boat drinking champagne in Barbados, but they will say, you know, that they're left and believe in the sort of woke ideas. But really they don't practice that. And there's a lot of that that goes on and they're not true to themselves. And a lot of them come up to me and say, actually, I totally agreed with what you said. I caught you on GB News. I agreed with you. But they won't admit it. And there's a lot of that going on. And I do think if. And when there is a general election, we will see a lot more people voting for the right because they just don't want to admit it. They don't think it's socially acceptable to say you are leaning to the right than the left at the moment. Do you think it is just a matter of cowardice, effectively? I think it's cowardness but I think once it really does hit home to them, when we have this economic crash which I think is coming and it affects them really hard and affects their family, their children, they will change their mind and I think that's what's going to happen. I mean we've got the Burnham bouts at the minute and yeah he's a great communicator, far better than Keir Starmer but then... So is one of the Wooden Tops. But I do believe people will change their mind because it will, you know, it's going to hurt them. And I have a lot of friends that are leaving this country. I mean, sadly, a lot of my friends who have businesses that are millionaires have left. So they can't see a future here. Yeah, it's interesting you say that. James McMurdo, the Reform MP, actually said he... Has he taken back into reform yet? He hasn't, has he? No. So I'm technically an independent MP. Wrote a really good post on social media and he basically went through all the different tax settings at the moment. And the line which hit me was we have created a culture where it's just so easy to say, why bother? When if you're going to earn over 50K effectively, you get into a high tax bracket when the minimum wage is 27K, that wage compression. Yeah. It's like, why bother striving an extra three hours every evening to get that promotion when, you know, the extra 20K that you're going to get in that promotion? Most of it will just be chewed up in tax. Well, that's it. And I just spoke to a friend before I came here, Will, who said, look, I work so hard juggling the kids, work every hour, get home, I'm shattered. And my neighbours who've got the satellite dish and the lovely car are all working the system. And I'm afraid there are many that are doing that. That is the problem. And it's frightening times. And look, we've got the budget. They're not going to cut the welfare bill. You know, this country's on its knees and they need to do something. Let's turn to politics more directly. You're right, I think Keely has just sat down from speaking as we're chatting. Yeah. I haven't had time to fully digest it, but it doesn't look like, from what I can see, that he's really seriously addressing the... of severe macroeconomic problems this country faces. To your point, there is a crash coming because you can't just keep spending money and spending money and adding to the credit card without consequences. All But unfortunately, the Labor Party has too many people on the take. There are too many people who are actually on the government teat. And as a result of that, they know that if they're going right. to take money away from them, it is going to be electorally disadvantageous for them. So they're not going to do it. I often think, you know, Given that we've now created this huge welfare state, is this even a problem that can be solved by politics, or does it have to be some sort of a crash now? In order for us to recognise that you can't just keep living in this economic fantasy land forever. Well, I think we are going to have an economic crash without a doubt because, as you say, we cannot keep going on like we're doing. Plus, you know, we have a prime minister who was unelected, parachuted in, and I'm afraid he's a local, he's a mayor, and I don't think he's up to it, he's inadequate. And sadly, we've had seven prime ministers, one after the other, that have all been... inadequate and we need someone that is going to be strong enough to do something about it that isn't scared of the back benches it's going to put its people first and take a leaf out of Trump whether you love him or loathe him he puts his people first and we haven't got that and you know the welfare bill needs to be cut and we need to put more into defense. That is simple, and Andy Burnham has shown his two colours, but he keeps changing like the wind. The Andy Burnham of yesterday says things very different than the Andy Burnham of today. He changes, and it's a worry. Yeah, you said that we've had seven Prime Ministers in a row that have been inadequate, and I agree with you. It raises an interesting question, because if you look at Australia, for example, it's been much the same over the last 15 years, a high turnover of prime ministers, they've all largely been duds. I like a couple of them, but, you know, something like a Tony Abbott I really like, but, you know, none of them you could say had a successful tenure. All right. And it raises the question, in countries like Australia and the UK, have we just been unlucky? Have we just had a rough trot of 15, 10 or 15 odd years of just poor political leadership? Or is it now almost impossible to actually be a politician in this day and age and no matter who we put in from this point on, they're all going to fail? Well, I honestly think Nigel Farage will be a fantastic prime minister. I really do believe that. And I think if Andy Burnham, which we seem to believe, wants us to have a referendum, maybe, or he wants to definitely go back to the EU, and he's changed his mind on what he said at Makerfield, and I think if he brings that argument to the general election, Nigel is going to win it, hands down. And he's going against the will of the people, going against democracy, and he's not honouring. Our vote. So I think he could be in hot water because when you challenge him, I mean, today in prime minister's question time, he doesn't actually answer a question. He's actually more slippery than Starmer. He's very good at it, though, because he's a better communicator. But he doesn't answer a question. And we deserve better. We deserve someone that is going to put these people first and deserve a prime minister that's up to the job. Yeah, I get a sense that Farage secretly is delighted that Burnham has just opened the door slightly on the Brexit conversation because that's Farage's happy place. That gives him a fight. I know. And it's a fight he knows he can win because he has won it before. And I think he needs a fight. He needs something to galvanise the Reform base. It is no secret now that they have dipped in the polls. It does feel like a bit of their energy around the movement has dissipated. Are you excited? What do you put that down to, and do you think Farage needs to take a share of the blame for where Reform currently sits, which is, on some polls, behind the Conservatives? Well, I mean, the polls have shown that he's behind Kemi at the moment. But you have to remember, firstly, they're a new party, and he's done phenomenally well. But there are a few bad apples there which he's had to get rid of and will still get rid of. And I think, yeah, he's had to really look at what is going on. But I don't know a party that has had so many stings. You know, spies in the camp trying to do bad stories on. And if we look at the Labour Party, I mean, God, how many bad apples have they had? Look at Mandelson, an MP fighting in the street. So when you talk about bad apples, you're talking about bad councillors. You're not talking about Conservative defectors? Well, yes, there have been a few of those. But what I'm saying is I don't think there's been a party that's been scrutinised as much as Reform has. And the ITV thing wasn't helpful at all, of course not, and I think that's reflected in the polls. But Reform have got a great campaign. They've got a lot of support. And I think, especially if Andy Burnham's going to bring up this Brexit debate again, my word, you know, Nigel being in his element, there'll be rocket fuel in his shoes to take off. Yeah, as I said, I think he would love that. It's interesting, the dip in the poll broadly correlates with the Zahawi and Dorey's defections amongst several others. Uh, now. Now, again, is that causation? Is it correlation? Who knows? Do you think Farage should be here? In his quieter moments, regrets those appointments or those defections? I don't think so. Look, he's got a big job to do. And as I say, it's a new party. And I think the problem is, is with Rupert Lowe, that's, you know, throwing missiles at any opportunity. And I think... Him, as a person, he literally despises Nigel more than he loves his country. The feeling, I think, is mutual, I would suggest. Yeah, and I just wish in some ways the right will come together and say, look, we could literally have more years with Labour and what it's going to do to this country and maybe make some sacrifices. And I think now, looking at it, that's what they have to do. Yeah, look, the Lowe and Farage thing is... If they lose this next election, it will go down as one of the great political tragedies. And I do believe if some left-wing coalition of the Lib Dems and the Greens and Labour bandy together to beat a divided right, then I'm not interested in blaming one group. I blame all of them. I blame Badenock. I blame Farage. I blame Lowe. I blame all of them. I think they all deserve to go down as traitors to the country if that happens, because this next election is too important. It is. Yes. So... Look, I go back to your once fave, Tony Blair. I love it. He was. I loved Tony Blair at the beginning. A very smart politician in that he recognised he needed to keep a left-wing coalition together. He was doing the whole New Labour thing. He said, we need to cut the socialist stuff of the past and be more appealing to more people in the country. But in order to do that, he didn't cut out the toxic left-wing elements of the party. If you remember, someone like a Jeremy Corbyn was there the whole throughout the Blair years, and apparently Tony Blair, every couple of months, would sit down with Corbyn, and Corbyn would rant about some nutty thing, and Tony would just go, yep, yep, yep, thanks, Jeremy, thanks, Jez, thanks, tea over, and it would somewhat keep that left-wing flank of the Labour Party together. Now, I think some would argue that Farage had the same job on the right and Lowe was the right-wing flank of Reform. And you need to have those right-wing kind of people who are saying the stuff, which is pulling the party in that direction, and then you can always row back from it. Do you think he made a managerial error in not holding the right flank of reform there and enabled it to then splinter off into this movement that we now see as Restore? Yeah, I understand everything you're saying there. And I think possibly in reflection, Nigel must think, I didn't realise that Rupert could be so dangerous and vindictive and is going to do what he's doing. I mean, it really is like a hate campaign. And. As Reform said, we really need those restore, you know, people to come back to Reform and whether that will happen or not. But Nigel's got to make it happen. There's got to be, I feel now, some sort of, you know, gathering of the right because we can't go on. And as I say, Tony Blair, you look at the beginning. Great communicator, very charming, you know. You haven't met him, by the way? I have met Tony on quite a few occasions. What's your reflections on him personally? Ah. I think he's actually a despicable human who took us to war on a lie. And I think he was like the lapdog to Bush. And sadly, there was a big cost in blood and treasure. And I... He fooled us, but he was very good at it, and it was my one regret, is voting for him. So he's very charming, you meet him out socially, you want him at your dinner table, because he's great fun, but... And I can see this in Burnham. He's got that same way, but don't be... But I don't think he has the intellectual depth behind him. Blair is a smart guy and a smart politician. I think Burnham's political instincts are better than Starmer's, but I don't think he has the intellectual gravitas behind him that someone like Blair did. I agree. And look, we've got Europe is burning. Look what's going in France and all of that. And we've got Burnham who is doing Gogglebox and talking about noise levels on trains and cowboy builders. He's very local. He isn't up to the job. And I think it's going to all unravel. So if we get everyone saying May general election, I think it's going to be not quite as everyone thinks. That's what I say. As my dad said, don't give in to socialism, don't ever, because they'll always come back wanting more, and we're seeing this in this budget. So for restorers, I guess, you know, it's interesting. Reform is almost wedged at the moment in that you have kind of the old wet Tories to the left, you've got Restore to the right, then you've got Reform somewhere in the middle of this hodgepodge on the right. On the left, I would suggest, although some would argue that policy-wise now, the Conservatives and reform are pretty difficult to split. It's a trust issue. Do you still trust the Conservatives or do you trust reform? So how do you feel Kemi has gone on with the Conservatives? In one respect, it feels like she's got a bit of momentum behind her. At the same time, it feels like whenever she builds a bit of momentum, some wet Tory pipes up and says something stupid. For example, I think in Parliament the other day, I can't remember his name, Palmer? Palmer, I can't remember his name. But basically in response to Jenrick, Mitch saying we need to cut all foreign aid. he just yelled out, you're a Neanderthal. Completely missing that the Overton window has shifted, you that the mood on the right has changed. very It just feels like she is desperately trying to move the Conservatives, but there are all these wets who just want to pull it back to where it was. Well, she goes one step forward and then goes two back. much. And sadly, Conservatives lost their way. They forgot what Conservative was. They forgot the true blue. They went wishy-washy with Cameron and all of that. And I'm afraid. Kemi was a bit slow off the blocks to start with. I used to call her Kemi Bad Enough. But she's got so much better. And she's quicker and she's saying the right things. She'd sometimes miss the open goal. Like today at Prime Minister's Question Time, she was on at him about Brexit, going back on what he'd said originally, Why, you know, we'd make a deal. And I think she's doing far better. But can people trust the Tories again? We've had 14 years that we were let down. In so many ways, you know, there's so many examples where they lie to us. And I don't know whether the people can trust them again. That is the thing. But I do, and you said it once on a show, I was with you, that the right have to unite. And I have to say I've got to possibly agree with you. Yeah, this is the thing. In a perfect world, do I think the Conservatives deserve another chance? No, certainly not at the next election. There needs to be a punishment for the level of betrayal that we saw. But we don't live in a perfect world. We have to operate under the circumstances that we have. And that is that you don't say, well, the alternative is either some sort of an arrangement with the conservatives, acknowledging they may not have fully changed, acknowledging there are still wets in there. Okay. Or it is more Labour. Now, I still prefer wet Tories to Labour and Dems. That is the choice that we have. It's not do you want the Conservatives or do you want reform? The choice is do you want a coalition on the right or do you want a coalition on the left? And I think a lot of people still have their head in the sand about that when they say... When you hear the online debate, for example. Well, exactly. And I mean, look, we have to blame the Tories. I mean, we had Keir Starmer. Sure. He wouldn't have ever got in if we hadn't been so let down. But the Tories didn't have the political will to do anything. They should have left the ECHR. You know, look what's coming over. stop the boats and Rishi he couldn't stop a pedalo it was embarrassing and I think we have now got to really look at what's going on and I think after this budget people are going to see how it is going to severely affect them and this huge welfare bill the net zero madness I could go on forever but we can't we can't do this we were three trillion in debt you know and We have to do something as a nation and get great again. And looking at what's going on in Europe, you want to be in the EU? Look at what's going around us. And I'm frightened it's going to come here, Will. I will. And we have to do something. And the right have got to get to their senses and hopefully group together and conquer this Labour government. You've given that bleak set of circumstances you just laid out and I think... Yeah, everyone would agree with you. It's, you know, they are pretty dark times in many respects in this country at the moment. Given that you said, you know, you've got a lot of friends who are deciding to go elsewhere, whether it be the US or Dubai or Australia. Thank you, Elliot. And, you know, I imagine you're not short of a few bob. If you wanted to do that, you probably could. So why are you still here? I love this country. I love it. I love everything about it. I love the traditions. I like going to the pub with my black Labrador. I love, I just, you know, I want the best for this country. And I could see how great it can be again. And I hope it can get back there. It won't with this government. But we can do it, and I believe in it, that my sons have left. My son went to Sydney. He's an entrepreneur. He missed home too much. He's come back, and now he wants to go again because of his mum. It's so tough here. Yeah. My oldest now wants to go to the States to work because it is very hard for the younger generation and we're losing our young entrepreneurs, we're losing our wealth, the millionaires, but we're losing our businesses and we're losing our youth. That's my worry and we need to bring some aspiration and hope back to this country. So, you know, if you're a politician, I said this, who was I saying this to the other day? Sarah Hockey, former Australian treasurer, politicians have to say our best days are ahead of us. It's one of those clichés that every politician going for president or prime minister or whatever, it's almost their final line, our best days are ahead of us. But when you look at the outlook for, say, kids your son's ages, how old are they? 25, you know, 20, 30, just turned 30. Yeah, okay. And so them and even younger than them, you know, it does look a bit grim when you look at it. Can we say our best days are ahead of us? You know, is there hope of some form of renewal? Or if we're being pragmatic, is it just this drip, drip, drip of slow managed decline? Well, I don't know how we're going to get out of this mess with this Labour government if they're going to continue this huge, whacking welfare bill, which is $350 billion and more. We have to stop this. And this whole, you know, people... Just because they've got a bit of anxiety, not going to work. We've got to make work, you know, it's good for you. It's great for your mental health in every sense. And we've lost that somewhere along the line. And you said about my boys, one supporting, you know, more left-leaning, like a Jeremy Corbyn, and the other is far more right. But I blame the schooling. I mean, my son literally came out of drama school and I felt, wow, he totally changed his views. And I really feel that it's a lot to do with the teaching, that teaching all this woke-ism nonsense really to our kids. Yeah, interesting. Well, so for reform, it's what? It's Suella, I think, who's in charge of their education portfolio. Yeah. And. And? I know they've made noises about getting rid of stupid nonsense woke degrees or not funding them, I should say, subsidising them. But you're right. Like whenever the conversation around is woke over comes up, my instinct is no, I don't think woke will be over for some time. I think some of the really loony edges of it, like gender ideology and taking a knee for black people and all that sort of stuff, that stuff may fade away. But... In terms of the core tenets of wokeism, which is treating identity politics, this victimhood mentality, thinking of the world as oppressive, the oppressed, I think that stuff will endure sadly for some time because of the education system. Because at the moment, from the age of six through to the age of 22 or 23, if you go to university and finish there, that's what, 14, 16 or 17 odd years of just consistent indoctrination. And it doesn't matter how well-adjusted you are as a kid. It's very hard to come out of that and not have a warped view of the world after that amount of indoctrination. And it's happening, and it's still happening. You know, I was talking to my son. He said, you know, the teacher had a pro-Palestine badge and had the flag up in the classroom. And it's just not right, okay? And this has to change, and we have to get our youth back into... Working, that working's good, and not having these anxieties and not being hurt by, you know, hurty words. This all has to change. And, you know, my father was pretty tough. You know, he worked with Margaret Thatcher, who he adored. But I would just think, what would she think of this country now? And everything with the Czechoslovaks and everything like that. I mean, we aren't the same country and we need to get back to being Great Britain again. We really do. But I've got hope and I'm staying here, Will. You're not getting rid of me. And I'm trying to cling on to my sons to stay. But it is tough and it is tough and it will continue and only get worse with this Labour government. Well, Lizzie. Keep fighting the good fight. You are one of the favourites of listeners and viewers of GV News because you say it as it is and because you're just so damn fun. Thank you, Will. Keep doing what you do and thank you for coming on. Lovely to see you. Thanks.