My Husband was Convicted/Challenges I faced as the spouse..

Thank you so much for watching the episodes, thank you so much for engaging, thank you so much for subscribing, and I said I'm going to keep up, keep up, I saw how you love the relationship topic, and I think today I have a guest, somewhere close to that, somewhere, I think it's going to be, in a lie on that side, a relationship, so today I am with Njoki, On set. Welcome, Njoki. Thank you so much, Saleh. I don't want to hear your voice. If you introduce yourself, who do you call? Oh, my name is Njoki. Njoki Mwangi. I'm a counsellor by profession. I'm a mother of three children. Nice. Nineteen, she's in university. Our first born is in university. There's a person in university? Yes. Nineteen years. Second born, she's sixteen, form two. And our third born, the baby, she's going to be nine this week. The baby is nine. Nine years. A retirement package. Happy birthday to the baby in advance. So Njoki, I came for the seminar that was happening at Daystar. Yes. And I got you to finish a very... I felt like I would get this story. I put it down, I don't know where I missed it. I think we had a meeting that day. So I told Lena, I came with Lena, our producer, why don't you reach out to this woman and tell us her story? Like, most of the times, these things, until we hear them, that's what I thought. What would I do if today my husband got arrested? What would I do? Like, where do I even start? So I don't know how it was for you. Maybe you can share your story. Nobody ever gets prepared for anything. And you're learning on the job. So for example, this case here, my husband, has been going on, had been going on for about eight years. So the first time, in fact, we met, they just called. They called CID, they said, come here, there's a case report here, come here. I was expectant with our last born at eight months. Which year was that? That was 2008 years back. Eight years back. 2004, 2014. 14. 14. So I'm expectant with her. We went and before I knew it, she was taken. He just left, and I'm thinking, hey, what's happening? There's no preparation. So you went to the CID because he was called? Yeah, in fact, we were going to pay for water. So we were in the car, we were going to pay for water. We were calling the phone, and he said, Ah, if we don't go, we'll be in trouble. We'll go through this. This is Serena. What's the name of that office? The DCI, anti-corruption, that's what it is. So we went. Before I knew it, hey, my friend. Kidogo, kidogo. We were in Kilimani, and luckily that day, as we were going, we met with my father taking a walk. We told him, dad, don't get in the car, let's go. So my dad thought very fast. Cash bail, bank, bank, he went to close it, we drove very fast, got bail. But of course my husband thought I was his sister, he was his big sister. It is a family issue. Oh, no. It's a family issue. It was a succession. Oh, no. It was a family issue. It was a family issue. It was a family issue. It was a family issue. It was a family issue. It was a family issue. It was a family issue. It was a family issue. It was a family issue. Oh, no. Yes. So see, those major crimes, just the way you're talking to your family, somebody feels you've given them a lot of money, my husband is an orphan, they're orphans, I'm one of the siblings. So their uncle didn't feel like they deserved. So they were arrested, they were forced to leave. So that is what put them in. So this case went on for four years. You don't know you're innocent. So you just go, you just go to the case, you go, you go, what? So this particular day on a Friday, I was going to visit my husband, my husband was a woman, I was going to the physio. We left, my husband was going by car, I was going by three. He was going to Halinga, he was going to Kibira, Low Court. After the physio, I was so relaxed that I didn't even pick up the phone. I didn't even hear the phone. The next thing, I went to the cashier. I went to the cashier and saw that there were 25 phone calls. People called me and my sisters. They told me, you need to pick your phone call. There's trouble. So wait, so this is after the four years then? After the four years. So now you've already given birth, you have a baby? Yes, I have a baby, so by this time the baby is four years old. So the case went on and on, we've done hearings, we've done what. So you're hopeful it will end. So you know you're innocent. It's a family case. You were telling me it was just a fraud case. So you're dealing against other family members? Family members, yeah. Siblings or relatives? Relatives, yeah. Oh no. Yeah. Our only relative. Oh, man. Yeah, so we went. So first and foremost, I see. First, I have a message from my husband. Please come to court. The worst has happened. I'm thinking, what's the worst? I know you're trying to scroll. You see messages too. They pass, they pass, they pass. Then finally, I just thought, I think there's only one person who can hear. My youngest brother. I called my husband. I told him, how are you doing? He said, why? Because the house is closed. So, him and the sister now? So, I said, why? Do you know, Sele, I lost direction. I froze. I didn't remember where I was. My brother was talking to me. Where are you? I tried to look at the streets. I couldn't read anything. So, I told my mother. She had locked the door. I told her I had lost my mind. Please talk to my brother and explain to him where I am so he can pick me up. So my brother spoke to that woman and explained it to her. So where I was, it was a bit far, and where my brother was, it was far. He told that woman, tell him to go. And this woman walked straight. Ask him if he knows where All Saints is, it's right there. You were here, you'll hear the opposite of the G.P.O., right there. That line of G.P.O., right there. Yes, that's right. So my brother told me, now... Do you think you can figure out what is there that you can remember? I told him, I think I can remember All Saints. So my brother told me, let's walk on that road. Listen to the All Saints' message and I'll come and pick you up. So that's how we connected with my brother. I don't know, I don't know how I got there. That's how people can get stuck in a car. I don't remember anything. And that's why I keep on saying, let's just be kind. Life is not just about knowing what someone is going through. You can't know what someone is going through. So your brother picked you? He took me, we went to Kibira, of course time had passed, time had already passed by that time. Asha, you're done? It's Friday. There's nothing you can do on Friday. We'll wait until Monday. So, he was there on Monday? Yes, he was there on Monday. No phone? Like, were you communicating? So, by the time we got there, we were in the cells. So, of course, I was there to see him. I'm so confused. So, by the time I mobilized my siblings, our friends, the people from the Bible study, they came. I've called a few people. So, they came. So, we found out what's happening. Oh, where are they taking him? The industry, etc. We were there until Monday. And unfortunately, that day, our lawyer never appeared in court. So, you know, sometimes you even struggle. If you don't know how to defend yourself, how are you going to defend yourself? Mm-hmm. So, in my mind, I thought that Monday we would go to court. Teeny, I'm talking. We would just go and end this story. Why? Why? Four years later. Let me ask you, how do you tell your children that their father has been put in jail? You know jail is for criminals. I know that. So you're telling them that their father is a criminal. He's a criminal. But the saddest thing is this, that time, we were going on a retreat. A new retreat. Then, my son was doing a presentation, a show, on radio. So we decided, first of all, the people at the Bible study said we should hold on to this until Father's Day. Then we couldn't break the news to my son. Because it would have affected him, the show he was going to do, the radio presentation. So we got home. Of course, they're seeing many people. And they can't see their dad. They can't see their dad. So we said, Dad, I'm in a two-place. What? We'll tell you. You know, you just, I can't even remember what I said. But my biggest fear is, what was I going to tell my children? I didn't know what to tell my children. So after the show now on Saturday, that's when we broke the news. Oh, the show was happening on Saturday? On Saturday morning. So by that time, we woke up, we went, I went to see Mwasi. We talked. And then you see him now behind bars, standing. It's traumatizing. It's traumatizing. And that was our experience for four years. It was difficult. It was painful. Who do you talk to, Selen? When I went on YouTube, I tried to find out where I was. Is there anybody who has given their story? Being a spouse of a person who is incarcerated. At least I found someone who can feel me, who can talk to me and understand what I'm feeling. Is it normal? I used to hear my head burst. I used to hear my head burst. I used to sleep crying and wake up crying. It was a difficult time. And you know, that's why I said, maybe it's okay to look for a husband. Because personally, I've never heard of a husband's spouse. And people, we have so many inmates. Like, there are so many of them. Like, I'm in Ruhiru, they've all passed away. And I've never heard of a husband saying, like, even a group of women, just to give them strength. So the ones I got are actually inmates, who are now my friends, several ladies and several gentlemen. And then later on, I decided, of course, but those who are with them, they don't want to form a support group. They didn't want. Why? Stigma. Do you know, when somebody is incarcerated, it is like you and your families, now you've become also convicts. There's a time, one of my sons, my second-born son was bullied in school. It really, really hurt me. And you know, the children were very careful. They didn't want anybody to talk. So me, I'm the person who will talk. I'll share in the Bible study. We'll pray and talk about it. But the children didn't want to talk about it. So I was also very careful to protect. So I think my son, he shared with one of the friends. And the friends, he shared with another friend. So when those stories were told at school, it was very painful. See, he was beaten up by something. I don't even know what he was beaten up by. I just heard he was in the principal's office. He was beaten up. He was beaten up. And I never knew that my son can do such a thing. And I realized, wow, my children are going through something. They didn't know. Then, another time, so we developed a system of getting to know. The lucky thing is that being a counselor, also I was doing my master's in psychology, marriage and family. So I had a lot of support from my classmates, my lecturers, my supervisors. But still, it didn't feel like it was enough? No. In fact, if I never went through counseling, I would have been beaten. But there are experiences too, you just go through them, because you have to go through them. So, as we were going through therapy... One of my colleagues, that's really my partner at Stawi Wellness, our counselling centre, he told me, I've been reading about stories of incarceration. I've seen that you can write letters. You can start writing letters. So we started developing a system to write letters. Lettuce. Luckily, my children are all day scholars. So when we say we're going this week, we write before. We write in Barua, we write, and then we exchange. What do you write in Barua? So we write, I write in Mwangi. As a spouse. And you write to your father. To their dad. And then he will reply. The last week, when we come back next time, we exchange. You take a reply. For four years? For four years. No, my daughter, you think she knew how to write. So she used to do a lot of things. To drink, to drive, to love hearts. So you were going to visit all of them? After some point, we stayed in India for a short time. He was transferred to Nairobi, near Amref. So we were going. But now another challenge is this. You're only allowed one visit per month. Even for the spouse, like the wife? Yeah, one visit per month. And this one visit is like 15 minutes. Sometimes it's 10 minutes. This is our government, Mwanzi. Now look, you're the one who gave birth to the three children and you're the one who gave birth here. So we're going to share these 15 minutes. And remember, talk to the other side. He's also responding. So you're going to tell him, Dad, you haven't even finished. Dad. So you just look at each other, you start... But initially, they were very angry. Every time that we walked out of prison, my children would cry. Especially our daughter. She was crying. But I tried to explain to her. Even after a while, after we told her, I tried to explain to her. I think we never really told her what it was. So when we went, one time I asked her, why is dad coming here? I didn't know what to say. One officer was there, he rescued me. He said, the child's dad is here at work, he'll be done at school, he'll leave. I had no answer for my daughter. That guy saved me. And it worked? It worked. So he would come to know my dad. He was at work? He was at work, he was wearing a black and white uniform. And then the second bully came one time. He was still in town. One of the children said to him, hey, are you going to go to Danganyana? So my daughter came to the house crying. That's the first time my daughter, her father is in prison. I was not with them. My house girl was with them. So I got them to cry, they cried. At that time, I think my daughter could understand what it means. So I gave her stories of prison, YouTube, we were watching. I told her, Mama, Daddy is innocent, Daddy is innocent. And later on, you got married. We got married, we got married. What was your, what was your, I want to know, what was the toughest? Like, what was, during those four years, what was the toughest moment? The toughest moment is going with my children. To see the father behind a small window, behind bars. No touch. No hugging. No hugging. In fact, there's one time, immediately, initially, they would allow us in a room. They would allow us in a room, and some people are very good. So one time I asked one of the officers, my daughter just wanted to sit with her father. So one time it happened again, they cut off the system for us to enter. I think somebody had misbehaved and it makes other people suffer. Our daughter, imagine, she was just four years old. She cried, I want to sit on daddy, I want to hug daddy. And you're thinking, so that officer said, finish talking to the director. When you finish, I will open the door for you. I will allow that little girl. She will come, hug her dad, and leave. Then another woman came. In fact, it took me therapy to forgive that woman. I had to go for therapy to forgive that woman. That woman refused. And it's only this one day in a month. And of course, now with time, the children were feeling, they were getting very traumatized, they didn't want to go to jail. So many times they were stopping coming. Then Mwangi was feeling that pain, he was telling me, okay, let's not bring the children. I told Mwangi, I won't bring the children. Our relationship will break. We have to keep on trying. So initially there was a lot of tears, then with time it started to change. And then, of course, this world has its own people, their lawyers. Everybody would go, everybody became a lawyer in that time. So they would go and say, Mwangi, the case is going to go this way, it's going to go this way. So me, I'm saying, this is where we're going. He says, this is where you're going. So it brings a lot of conflict. So, of course, at some point, we needed to make our mind and say, who are we going to listen to? Who are we going to share about this case? Because the more you share it, the more you get confused. Everyone has their own ideas. And solicited advice is from everywhere. And it hurts. Sometimes it hurts because, you know, it's like you're playing with people's emotions. It hurts. I get to see people being told, just accept it and close your sentence. Like, you know, you didn't do it, but they're telling you, And you didn't do it. Because of being desperate, you see... You can't just fire me. Probably, you don't even have a chance to go and file this case because you don't have a lawyer. So what do you do? You'd rather just, I mean, never win this case. Let me just go and do a review. I'll do what I did. I'll fire you. If you don't mind, I'll sit outside and meet with my family. So, of course, there are those options. But I kept on telling Mwangi, but you're innocent. Don't fight until the end. If you just fire me, it's over. We say we tried. We were so ready. Like, we were so determined. Let's just, this is where we are. But you were supporting him, right? And I'm saying, you see, someone else would say, if you agree, you can leave. Like, because I'm sure that when you leave, you leave clean. If you say, I did it, you're already... So you're not going to leave with a criminal record? Exactly. You've helped them with their work. You've agreed. So you're not a clean person. But you see, it depends with where you are. So, like, let's say, for example, you can't afford a lawyer. Will you accept it? Yes, I will. And you know you won't be able to live with this case. I know. And then many times, you think maybe you're going to pay a lawyer $300,000, $400,000. It's better to give your family that money. Pay your children's school fees, food, things like that. So I'm here, I'm thinking, there's a woman out there, her husband has been arrested. You don't even have to be a husband or a kid. Even a child. So I was thinking, how am I supposed to deal with it? Because I think from your experience, you can tell someone a few things you learned. What was the first thing that caught your attention? Of course, the first thing is to know. First and foremost, you're in prison. In prison, there are officers. Oh, a legal. So they understand those kinds of things. Even those who have access. So they're able to follow up their cases and get advice from the legal people. But also, there are a lot of companies in these days. Even in Gava, there are places that are pro bono. The thing is, you have to be persistent. It's not like you come today or the next day, or you give up. You have to be very consistent. There's this lady in the Bible who kept on going to the king, asking for justice. The king gave her everything. You have to be very, very persistent. But the challenge is if you've already started working. Sometimes people just decide to choose and it's not cheap, it's not cheap. So now see, luckily for me now, I have a family that was very supportive financially. Issues legal, family and friends raised good money for us. So we are able to get, in fact, at some point we had to get two law firms to represent us. So you're able, and then I had colleagues who are lawyers, they came and said, let me look at this place, let me look at this. So there was always somebody reviewing. But secondly... So I've been talking about finances. If you have somebody... So this is for the people who are having people with challenges. I can be in a situation like this, just in a minute. Immediate needs, they have finances, food, rent. If you can just support someone for two, three months, their mind can go back. They start thinking. Especially if it's a breadwinner. Do you know for one year, one gentleman, where please, we live, he took over duty. My son is a day scholar, so he's in Form 1. So when I dropped him in the morning, the father used to drop him in the morning and take care of him. Sele, because he wasn't sleeping, he was a walking zombie. So this neighbor of mine, he decided, because we couldn't manage, I would go and pick up the child at 5.30. I would take him to the stage, we would wait for the bus, he would go with the bus to school, and he would come back. So those are the things I say, my support. That guy helped me with time. After one year, I think my mind started to stop working. I didn't even remember what the tokens were. Tokens. Tokens. I used to call my neighbors, come and give me a token. I've had enough. Then I had a house girl who I told her to stay with her house. Don't ask me what I'm cooking. You just ask me for money. And then there's a time ladies rose up and did shopping. And that really helped, right? It helped because that time you're traumatised. You can't think. You just need somebody to manage you. For your things. But your mind will not return with time. It's just that you're in trauma. But what people don't understand, come on, you lose a close person. Whatever emotions that you go through, you're numb, you're in denial, you're in shock. It's the same thing that I went through. So it's just a matter of time and then you start to say, okay, you're able. But remember also, I was a lecturer. My biggest support system was the university where I was in. And you know, just when I was to graduate the following year, I couldn't graduate. Because now, even the mind to concentrate, I was doing my thesis, I couldn't. But I went for therapy. Sele, I went for therapy religiously. At some point, it was just in those two notes, one of my sons, he had suicidal ideations. And I feel life has lost meaning. And I didn't know it was on a piece of paper. So me going through therapy, he said, you know, we have to be strong for my children. Then one of my lecturers, he decided, let me pay counselling for the children. So that is what helped us. So me, as I am as a counsellor, I can never replace anything for counselling. And counselling, sometimes churches offer counselling. Some people don't say they can afford it. I go to sit-up churches. All our branches, there is always a counselling aspect. And sometimes there are many. You can go. Can you make sure first, wherever you are, wherever, either a lady or a gentleman or the children, make sure first your mental wellness is what you need. Then you can be able to make decisions. I didn't make any decisions until after one year. May God bless those people that came through for you. And then the men had a key support system. It's the main goal of Quad Missouri. They decided, so they took turns. So they would go for bowling, they would go for swimming. So they stood in, They became their fathers in my... In that space, my siblings also went on trips. Us guys, we are a family that goes for a holiday. So one of my brothers, my brothers actually started organizing to go on a holiday. One of them planned for a full week holiday for the whole family. Our family is big. So those gaps have been minimized. So now, it's normal. Normalcy was returned. So after the four years in school, now the day came when he was being released. So, first and foremost, that day came as a shocker. Like, you guys were not ready for that day? Let me tell you, we had been waiting for a date for two years. We were waiting, we were waiting, we were waiting. You know, when you go to the Court of Appeal, the judges are also very few. They are few, because there is a lot of work. So we waited, we waited, so finally, sometimes you get two emails, you're supposed to be in court. So we got up, we went to the court, and it's also a Friday. So, of course, we had pushed, long story short, we had really pushed a lot of things, gaps that were there. We had written letters to the DPP. Like you were so determined, you were going to... Yes, if we had pushed Court of Appeal, I would have gone to another court. I wouldn't have gone to East Africa. You were so sure you would not be able to do it? I had the emotion. Yes, I needed to do it for my children. Yeah, especially for my children. When I was doing my thesis, and I did try to do my thesis on families of incarceration, I saw that there were patterns. Patterns. When people are locked up, they follow patterns in families. Because there's poverty, lack of education, there's no social economy for people to support themselves. So you get those patterns that continue. I needed to change the narrative. And I said, I have to win this case, not only for my children and for myself, but for other families in incarceration. Especially because these spaces are jailer. Surely, if we could just give them space, we could just be fine. Imagine with your family. We can talk to a four-year-old child, he just wants to stay with his father. Yeah, let's talk about other things. The boys just want to have a conversation with their father. How much parental advice can you give in less than 15 minutes in one month? But luckily, twice, we got something called a visiting day. We went and sat down, ate KDFs and sodas. There you go. KDFs and sodas. I feel they need to do better, to be honest. And that's why I was saying, I remember when we were talking, I was telling you, I think some things choose you. Selah, you know, most of the biggest ministries in the world, they started out of pain. They started out of pain. And me, I feel out of the pain that my family has gone through, our friends have gone through, we've birthed a ministry. And out of this ministry... The pain we saw and the gaps, that is what we are bringing in. That we have a mental wellness space. We have a legal platform whereby we will have a space for deserving cases. That we are going to give pro bono in years. And out of that, by the way, we became my sisters, my younger sister and my younger brothers. Their church does a lot of work. I had never done prisons ministry before. Well, we also do that in our church. Really? Yeah, sometimes they go minister. So me, you know, my mentality was that we were criminals. Criminosa. Criminos. So my siblings... Until you share, no one will understand. For me, I know we have so many innocent people in prison. I hear the story of a man who missed a little bit of his life. Or he was walking for a long time. It's not a matter of time. But something happened and he was taken to the next person. And he was taken to the next person. I know we have so many. But now also... Nobody thinks about the spouse. The one locked up in jail is a criminal. One time, Mwangi, he told me, Joki, I have a roof over my head. I eat food and I have security. You, you will take care of yourself and your children. Can you start thinking about yourself? And it actually hit me. Nobody ever talks about the experience of the spouse and the children. But also they don't talk because of stigma. It becomes, they start pointing at you and talking to you. So I would understand why. So we started those prisons. I'm telling you out of the pain of this thing. We started doing that. So my sisters and my brothers used to do prisons ministry in their church. So they started inviting me. We would go to the committee, we would look at people, we would go wherever. I would just go. Then one time, two conversations too among our friends, they said, let's not let this be a wasted experience. Maybe God brought it up so that we could do something about it. So we started talking, and we started breaking up. So we started having partnerships. So we started going, and this year, like last year, we had a fight, and it was called a fight. This was in December. Oh, a fight for love. My friend, we had a fight. So we've been going to committees of women and YCTC of women, juvenile. In fact, that is my space because I love interacting with the youth. And we've done several things. I started telling him, oh, one time I went and told him, what are you going to bring me for Christmas? I thought he was going to tell me cake, soda, sweet tea. Of course, chapo is a must, and cake. He said, are you joking? Why don't you bring us our youth, our age? I thought, whoa, these conversation standards in our family. But imagine, you don't longer get to a friends. I said, what? First time we went, we went with a bus of 55 children. I mean, parents trust you with their children. Then he told me, trust me, I'm going to take you to jail. And these children were happy because now they relate to their parents. So consistently, especially over COVID, we are now supplying a lot of prisons. Tissue papers, toothpaste, toiletries, things like that, and then also spiritual materials. So now it's no longer, and it's like, we're doing this thing when my husband is in. Sometimes he would go to the minister. He was still in. He was still in. I'm thinking this is after he left. No, no, when he's in. When did he leave? He left in June this year. Wait. I thought he left in September. No, June this year. Like it's only been how many months now? Yes. Four or five months with him? Yes. So we went to prison, I think, from 2019. Immediately we went in. Because of those prisons. And sometimes, you would be invited to a jailer. Oh no, and you must see him do it. I'm just sitting there in the corner, and he tells me, I can't cry. I can't cry. I'm serious, and of course, you can't see me with your eyes open. You've gone there as a ministry. But when I leave, I feel like my heart will burst. Because other ministries were given to me by God. Even the thing that we did to start doing ministry, it was because of the pain we were going through and saying we don't want anyone else to have that pain. So you go, you take tissues, you take pictures. Even when I was looking at the picture the other day, we were on our Facebook page, you say, wow, you're leaving there. You hear your soul beating, it wants to leave. And those days, I would go home and cry. And cry. And I told, I tell God, why am I going through this? Why do my children have to go through this? And then the Lord would say, but I've chosen you. You are strong. You can do it. I normally tell guys, any assignment, like, God will not give you what you can't handle. Yeah. I know you're the best. I don't know what to say. We are better. Everybody has their own person. God will give you something. You will handle it to the best. This is what I know you can do. I'm going to give you this for this number of years. It's going to be tough, but I know you'll get through it. You know that again? He just told us he will be with us. Yes. Me, that's a testimony I can say that despite the wars that I went through, me, Mungu, I couldn't forsake. The days I felt like God was so distant from me. But now looking back, everything that the Lord promised us, it happened. And people would say Mungu hame sema Mwangi ata achiliwa. But ukifuata he got processed, unashindua, ay, ay, kitu ikai ni kama uyu mtu ata iachiliwa. Sasa venye alitoka, iyo siku, Aki, I just want to hear, like... Iyo siku sasa, of course, tumetoka kotini, tumeselebrate, and then it hits us as a Friday. If we don't run with this thing running, baka satu. Of course, tukaenda kotini, following up, due process. I think they had a lot of cases in the Court of Appeal. So the procedure took so long. We sat back and forth. I had lawyer friends, many of them, who were helping. They were saying, let me go this way, let me try this way, let me go this way. So in the end, of course, we got out. Hmm. Like that day you went home with... You remember this case, we woke up in the morning. So the children also went to school. They didn't know if we were going to continue that day. So, of course, I called and told people that we had filed a case. So, of course, people started flooding home. They were flooded. By the time we got home, my children, I want to show you photos, my son. My son, I think we forgot to tell him. He was second born. For some reason, everybody talked. Somehow, this summer, everybody forgot to tell me that his father was coming back. So, that's when people saw the activity. And then when we were entering the compound, people were already in the parking lot. So my house girl, I just heard the house girl screaming, why? She was scared, she was screaming, she was scared. So my son started screaming too. So I got to know him. So he came, he froze, he just saw his father. Do you know my son didn't talk for one hour? No. So I heard that, I'm confused, Selena Shindua now. I think I need to take my son to hospital. No expression, no nothing. Everybody else is either crying or laughing. I just heard that. I think you're a ghost. I am asking my sisters, is he okay? Is he okay? What do we do? Please look after my child. He collapsed over there. Of course, we came home, we did Thanksgiving, but of course it looked like a dream. When you wake up in the morning, you check in. I confirm that. Oh my God. You are here. Yeah. What? And it has taken long for it to be. Some days you still live enough to know. Yeah, and things change. Remember four years is a very long time. Four years is a long time. My son was in Form 1, now he is in the university. The small one was four years, now she is turning nine this week. Mwangi aliyacha watoto kwa nyumba, amepata wanaume, wanaguruma. Oh my. People have found their way of doing things. Mwangi amekuja, hakiliyake, aliyacha watoto, amepata wanaume. And the boys think we should. And then also, Mwangi aliyacha njoki, bibi, monye, alikuwa... Sine, you're almost 10. Sasa amepata a wife who's alified system. Oh, you now, yeah. Yeah, so... Of course, there's a lot of catching up. I'm from a system whereby people are looked down upon. You have to have instructions. So I'm trying to catch up in that space. Roles change. Roles change. Me, I had to empower my children. I told them, we're going to sell here. What are you doing? What are you doing? People, don't learn. I told them, my friend, we're not selling. We're going to the supermarket. Take this phone. You have a shopping list. So I had to delegate roles. I told my son, here's the phone. You have 20,000. This is my PIN. Please, young man, don't go with my money. So my children became very, very, very equipped. So by the time I spoke to them, they were like, oh, you gave them your PIN? I said, by the way, you're from Kitambo. But it has been painful, painful, painful. I am not sure we have overcome the pain. And the wounds, they're still there. I still go for counselling. My children go. The good thing also being a counsellor, now children are able to appreciate, they say, Mami, I need a counsellor. So I really, I really like that. But we've birthed a ministry, Unshackled for Life. Unshackled for Life. You have a YouTube page, Facebook? We don't have a YouTube page. We have a Facebook and we have a LinkedIn account. So later on, one of the things that we are doing is storytelling. So sometime next year, we'll start doing storytelling. Ah, it will really help. To let in the experiences. We can even get lawyers to come and talk and counselors to guide people. There are also things, there are mistakes people make. So it could be a platform to educate people. Exactly. Then it will have mental health, which now, of course, I'm really advocating for that space. For better spaces for families, policies that are child-friendly. You know, children's act, you say, is the best interest of the children. When I look at my husband when he was in your sentence, did they look at the best interest of my children? The best interest of my children was to have a parent. There are alternative sentences. I would even lock him up outside so that my children don't suffer the loss of their father. So I look at someone who has left, who is innocent, but for years, for years, how will they return? Thank you so much. Oh, my God. This is so... At least I open my mind and start to understand. There's another side of... Not always that he's gone or he's dead. There are other things that we'll go through. A spouse who doesn't have a spouse there. I feel like it's a story you hear from a long distance. Or her husband is in the military, somewhere. Do you get it? There's still some emotional bit of it that this woman needs too. Needs the support, do you feel? Because she doesn't have her husband there. And not that her husband won't come back. He'll come back. Did you say hold? Oh, sorry. He'll come back. So, we need your support. But above all, I think what I've taken from you is... If I'm that, if I ever, God forbid, I don't, I'm not praying for it, but if I ever get myself in such a position, I fight. Like, sometimes you need to step up, like for the kids, do whatever best you can. How did you deal with it? You have to, my dear. But you can't fight if your mental wellness is not good. I couldn't do it. It's only when I went to therapy that I was focused and I could make decisions. Most of the time, people don't have that capability of support. Sometimes it's finances. So community of support, what is it that you need? You need finances, a mentor. For us, of course, legal was very important. And also spiritual. We formed a group of 70 people. It was called Intercessors for Mwangi. I don't know, up to today, there are people I've never met in that group. Intercessors for Mwangi. They were praying, they were praying, fasting, they were praying and fasting for four years. But you see, God did answer. And he did it. And God cannot put you to shame. When his timing came, he answered. So we need to look at the different dynamics. Even you, as a person who would know somebody who's going through an issue, and it could be any other issue. The issues could be finances. If you're able to sort out the finances for a short while, the person will not be able to think. Mm-hmm. The issue could be emotional. Take him to the counsellor. Pay him three or four sessions. His mind will return. The issue could be legal. Maybe introduce them. Take them to government offices that are having pro bono services. Or pay him a lawyer to help him. Thank you so much, Njoki. You've told us so many things. You've challenged us. True. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. You've helped us a lot. I'm sure we won't leave here. Even these ones in this room, we won't leave here the same way we came. Thank you so much, Njoki. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. And I will call you again. I've heard that you're the counsellor for marriage... And family therapy. That's what I'm calling you. Children and adolescents, they also take care of their children. Marriage, family, that's it. I'll have you back soon. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much, guys, for watching. Till next week. It has been a pleasure having you on my show. Bye. Bye-bye.