Pat Murphy Regrets Yankees Comment + Should Mets Go All In For Tarik Skubal? | The Show Ep. 225

I mean, I called Brian Cashman right away when I heard it got out. I didn't want to talk like that. But I heard the next morning we were at the parade and everybody was talking about it. I'm like, what? How did they hear that? You know, hot mic. And I'm like, whatever. So I picked up the phone and called Brian right away and had a good conversation. And the best I could try to explain that I wasn't talking about the 2026 Yankees. John, we shared the World Series together. Now we're going to share another part of that. Our perhaps most frequent guest, Pat Murphy. I think so. Who is now a championship manager of the Milwaukee Brewers, joins us on the show. Championship manager, champion of the show, a fantastic interview, obviously a fantastic manager, probably should be manager of the year, third straight time, third year, three out of three, incredible, and he has a great interview, and we're so thankful that he's coming on our show after appearing on SNL and the Today Show. Uh, and, uh, you know, we love the guy and, uh, it's great to have him on once again. So great job by you to get him, Joe. Yeah. Thanks. I'm sure we're going to ask him, uh, what made the Brewers champions. I'm sure John and I will sneak in a question where he kind of seemed to rip the Yankees to Jake Bauer. I'm sure we'll get into that. John and I are going to talk a little World Series up top. We're going to talk a lot of free agency, Yankees, Mets, trades, where we think the two teams are going. We'll play hit or error at the end if you stick with us on the show with Joel Sherman and John. John, you and I spent a lot of time sitting side by side at the World Series. It's been over for about a week. A little later on, we're going to have Pat Murphy, and we'll definitely delve into a lot on the World Series. But can I give one overriding impression? You tell me yours, which was mine is. The Brewers, just as stupid as it sounds, they're just really good at everything. They weren't good at one thing this year. They finished next to last in homers during the regular season, and then they out-homed their opponents 13-4 in the postseason. So they even got good at that. They even got lucky at that, right? There maybe should have been a fifth homer by Ty France early on. Who knows what that would have done for the playoffs. You know, if you're average at everything, you'll win 90 plus games. They're kind of above average at almost most things, except for the power. And then they added the power. They're one impressive team. They do everything on a baseball field well. Absolutely. Fantastic job. And I mean, look, I give them credit for even being 19th in payroll with probably the worst media deal in baseball, which I'm not blaming them for making that deal. I mean, you know, Milwaukee TV market is not great. It's the 41st market. It was a great story. I loved it. I know the ratings aren't great, as great as when the Yankees or Dodgers are in, but this was a complete team that played the game right, that did everything right. And And I thought it was a great story. Some initial impressions, I mean, Duran, he's won the Platinum Glove. I think we can both see that. You commented to me as you were sitting next to me. The guy's just unbelievable at second base. Brilliant. Right? Unbelievable. He might be the best second baseman I've ever seen. Yeah, I mean, we've seen Robbie Alomar. We've seen some good ones. He's amazing. I mean, the energy from certain guys like Frelick and Churio, incredible. Contreras, I think he stepped up his game. He's just so talented and so good. One of the. He might be one of the best players in the game. He might be the best catcher. I've always said Will Smith is the best catcher, no matter who's hitting how many home runs or doing anything. I've always felt that Will Smith was. It might be Contreras. You know, and I... Aaron Ashby, have we ever seen a reliever have a performance like that? Just incredible. I mean, the guy... Amazing and amazing. If you gave a postseason MVP, it might be Aaron Ashby. Yeah. You know, look, we have a relief pitcher of the year award for the first time, the BBWA this year. I think that award, if you're going to give it out, we shouldn't give it out. If we're going to give it out, it should be from the beginning of the season through the playoffs because that's when the relievers are the most important. And I think if we did it from the beginning of the season through the playoffs, it wouldn't be like Luis Varland or Mason Miller. It would be Ashby because he was exceptional all year, especially late. And then he was a difference maker for a championship team. John, I've been thinking about this a lot in the last 48 hours. This is a little bit of a transition into the Mets and free agency. If you were a Mets fan, would you feel any better? Because I know at this point, there's a collective downturn against David Stearns. But if you're like the worst moment for David Stearns as the GM of the Brewers, like the thing he took the most abuse for was when he traded Josh Hader at the trade deadline in 2022. And he will even admit he didn't do a good job in their clubhouse explaining what he was doing. There was no immediate. impact from it. And it's the only time in the last nine years the Brewers haven't made the playoffs. But you sit here today, Robert Gasser looks like the real deal. He pitched well in the World Series. They got Estery Ruiz in that trade and turned them into William Contreras. Like that was David Stearns being pretty crafty, even at a moment. And it's almost like, can I make a case Something really good came out of something really bad. He is a good executive. If you give him time, something positive will happen for the Mets. Or am I really reaching at this point, John? Well, maybe a little. You know what? He obviously had a great career in Milwaukee. He definitely has the potential to be a great executive. I think he just has to transition from being... A great small market executive to become a great big market executive. Look at all the deals that he made. You know, obviously, we're not going to go. Crazy again about Alonzo. But to sign all these guys, they were like all small market deals, these short-term deals for guys that he's going to get out of. Even the Bichette deal, he thought he'd get out of it after one year. Now it's not going to be one year. It'll probably be two years if Bichette has his normal season. But to sign Polanco and all these other guys for short deals, it's. Not the way to operate in New York, right? He's got the ability to really go out and get the best. And he needs to really transition to become a big market GM. But certainly a very smart guy. He has the ability to do that. And so, yeah, I don't think it's a complete reach, no. John, the largest contract in history was done. I know it was probably a lot more Steve Cohen than David Stearns, but they did do Juan Soto. It was Scott Boras' client and clearly the biggest free agent. And it feels like Secretariat at the Belmont. It's like Tarek Skubal and who's the second best free agent in this class. It's not that impressive of a class. If you're looking for a bat in this class, good luck. Uh, yeah. You know, it's going to be all guesswork. You might get lucky, but there's nobody who looks anything like 80% of Juan Soto here. Do you... I think we both expect that the Dodgers and Mets are going to be significant players on Scooble. Well, uh... Do you think that the Mets are in this to the finish line? And do you think anyone else is in it besides these kind of two coastal powers? Yeah, I mean, there are going to be other teams in it. There were other teams in it on Soto. Ultimately, we know the Mets did get him. The Dodgers, I think, finished sixth, something like that. In this case, it's interesting to see what the Dodgers actually do. Obviously, they have an interesting situation with ownership right now. The owner, Mark Walter, has been selling off pieces of his empire. He says he's not going to sell the Dodgers. Is he able to and willing to go big with Schuble now? There are other owners with the Dodgers. So I kind of think the answer is yes, he's not a full-time. It's not Steve Cohen's situation where he owns basically 80%, 90% of the team. He owns a percentage, a smaller percentage of the team. So I think the Dodgers will be in it. I know, I'm sure the Mets will be in it. But I do think there will be other teams in it. I am going to be surprised in the end if the Mets or Dodgers. are not able to outbid the other teams. I'm not saying there's a 0% chance, but so far the ones who've offered the $50 million plus contracts and the biggest contracts when it was $40 million, two were the Mets and the Dodgers. So I'm going to be surprised if it's somebody else, but you never know. If you were advising Steve Cohen and David Stearns, Scooble guys had Three different elbow surgeries. He had the nanoscope this year. It got called the scuboscope, I think, right? By Scott Boris. And he came back and he was 90% of who he usually is. Which, by the way, 90% of... Tarik Skubal's still a top 10 starting pitcher in baseball. Is this a guy you would go all out for if you were the Mets, especially considering that their history at the top of the market isn't the greatest history that there is? It feels like they should do it, and yet it feels like, man, it'd be hard to tell Steve Cohen to put all that money. Like, Steve Cohen's wasted a lot of baseball money these last two years. Uh, what? Would your advice be go for it? He's so great, you got to go for it? I almost think he has a little choice, right? He's had two disastrous years in a row, right? The first one at the end, and the second one throughout the entire season. Did do a little bit better at the end, to be fair, but basically two disasters in a row. As you said, this market is very top-heavy, incredibly so. So, you know, there's one guy who. Who's the best pitcher, arguably, in baseball? It's either him or Yamamoto, in my mind. Probably, most people would say he's the best pitcher in baseball. Paul, you know, You know, nobody's perfect. Every pitcher's got some issue going on. You know, everything will be considered. With everything we've seen, he's won Cy Young the previous two years. This year, he was one of the better pitchers. He's not, obviously, missed six weeks. He's not going to be a Cy Young contender this year, and he switched leagues. But I think he has little choice at this point, unless he thinks he can somehow cobble together from that other group. Uh... You know, turn the – what did the Mets win this year? How many games did they win? I'm not – something in the 70s, right? Yeah. Turn that into a World Series winner. I don't know. I don't think there's any choice that he has, really. Yeah. I think the most fascinating thing on Shohei, John, is going to be, is he like eight at four, like whatever the high end, or do people say, look, we do have enough concern about this, but we recognize you're great and it's four 55s or something, you know what I mean? Something like that. Do you, do you, my suspicion is. He'll get what he wants. Let me ask you two questions because I always end up asking you because I think few people know the market as well as you. Does he get short with a high AAV? And I have yet to talk to a person, John, who does not think he signs before December 1st. Like people think he's going to come off the board before a lockout. And a lot of big players will do this. That happened last time with like Simeon and Seager and all that shortstop class in 22 before we had a lockout. We're anticipating December 1st, 11:59 p.m. The owners are going to lock out the players again. I think Shohei's coming down. I'm not sure if it's going to be big and long or just short and high AV. What do you think of those two issues? Yeah, all these players who are at the top end, they all end up getting a long deal. Right. I don't see how he's going to get a short deal. As you mentioned, the history is all part of it. So that might affect the total or the number of years. But by the number of years, it's still going to be a lot of years. Right. I don't see that. The ones who have to do a shorter deal are the ones who had a bad year, final year, walk year. Like a Jazz Chisholm or somebody like that did not have their typical season and they're going to have to do a shorter year with opt outs or whatever, like Bichette did the year before. He didn't have to. Obviously, Philly made them that offer of 200. But he opted for that. But, I mean, Schobel's not only the best pitcher in baseball, he's by far and away the best free agent out there. So he's not going to have to do that. I do think that some of these predictions are a little bit over the top. We'll see. I mean, did anyone think Soto's getting 765? No, I don't think anybody saw that one coming. And some of them, some of the times I've gone over on different guys and they weren't able to get what I expected. He's not going to have to do a short deal. I'll share a story with you. When the bids started to come out on Soto in the 700s, where the Yankees and the Mets were, an executive from a non-New York team texted me. I think at that time was Trout the largest contract for something. And the guy sent me a text. What happened to 500 and 600? Like, and I was like, well, I could tell you, I've talked to people from both the Mets and Yankees. They are both corroborating to be there in the 700s. So, so. Right, and Ohtani. I mean, Ohtani was at 700, but we knew that the value of it was closer to 450. And this guy was a great hitter and a great pitcher. So, you know, it sort of went beyond what any of us prognosticators figured that it was going to go. Uh, You know, the market is a funny thing. And certainly this year, we've got the. Lockout coming, and that changes the equation even further. So as hard as it is to predict normally, it's even harder this year. Yeah. Look, you mentioned how bad the Mets—it's not just bad, disappointing. You could argue they've been the most disappointing team in the sport the last two years. I kind of wrote this for this morning, John, that got posted on our Sports Plus. I said, you know, it is interesting that an annual right of fall is— Like the Yankees won 93 games. It was the second best record in the division, in the league. They won a round of the playoffs. They make the playoffs every year. And then the moment they are eliminated, they get clobbered worse than like the Mets have the last two years. And I do think, look, one thing is they put themselves in harm's way. We know it's bullshit, but they keep saying it's championship or bust. So if you're going to say that publicly, then we're going to hold you to championship or bust. That's number one. Number one. Number two. I do try to treat them like a student. Like, I think that they are very well run. And therefore, like, I'm not curving, grading on a curve. Like, you've got to, like, do well. And they do well at a lot of things. You know, one of the things they do well at? High-end free agency. Like. Cole was a success. Freed was a success. Judge was a success. Bellinger looks like a success. It's something they actually do well. And yet, I don't think they're playing in that pond this year. I think that they're going to try to get deep in their bullpen, find a right-hand hitting catcher, find a right-hand hitting third baseman, and find a defensive center fielder. And I think they're going to do it not trying to go deep on the credit card. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, he's always said 300 million should be able to win at 300 million. Well, they haven't been able to, but he thinks that they should be able to. And I don't think he's going to 400 million. So I think that would, and this is not a great year for free agency. And the one great player, one truly great player, I mean, there's some very good players out there, obviously Suzuki and Arozarena, Lau. There are several very good players that are out there, but this isn't the year to dive in unless you need a starting pitcher. And right now, it doesn't... It doesn't seem to be a good reason for the Yankees to go for Schubel. You know, it would be quite an undertaking to then... I had to sign Schubel and then trade somebody or do something. So I don't see that. You never know in free agency. I don't see that coming. They have obvious holes and needs and thoughts. And certainly they got to think about second base. They probably have somebody within if they can figure that out, whether that be Volpe or Garcia or whomever. Third base is a question at this point. Is catcher a question? They've got some. They've got, you know, a lot of money on the books and some pretty apparent holes. And they've got to get, I think they need to bring Bednar back, you know. They offered a QO, obviously, right? Right. And he's not going to accept the QO, I don't think. You know, I think the one guy who might is Bauer, is maybe. We'll see. And he deserves it. He did fantastic. But, you know, they need to bring Bednar back. Look, Blackburn is a free agent as well, and he was fantastic, right? So they need to enhance that bullpen. It was really good in the regular season, in fact, the best ERA, but they were worn out by the end, at least Hedrick was, right? And Hedrick's the only significant reliever they still have under control. You mentioned it, Blackburn and Bednar are both gone. Fernando Cruz is hurt. I think there's a decent chance he's going to be non-tendered. Uh, you know, Tim Hill is gone. Like, like, like they've got to rebuild a whole bullpen. John, as a way to end this, let me, uh, I'm sure over the coming weeks, you and I will dive into lots and lots of issues, especially on the Mets and Yankees, but it's hard for me to have just watched a World Series between the Brewers and the Rays where the games are played really fast, you know, and they're such great athletes. I know the Yankees want the bats. But this idea that Luis Garcia Jr. is going to go play second base, like Washington knows him best and took him off the second base, put him on first base, and suddenly his offense blossomed. And if I were the Yankees, I would be trying very hard to trade Luis Garcia Jr., not because he's a bad player. I think it's quite the opposite. I think the offense is real. But he's a year from free agency. You have Ben Rice. I don't think they're just eating Stanton's money, so they're going to show up in spring training pretending at least he's the DH. By the way, if he's not, Judge should DH a whole lot more as they look to preserve him. And I think you just can't look at this World Series and go, we're going to put Ben Rice at first and Luis Garcia at second, have no range, no athleticism at those two positions. I think you try to... That's a way to address bullpen or third base or center field or catch. You use Luis Garcia. It's just one issue. What do you think? Yeah, I don't think Luis Garcia ever fit the Yankees. I mean, when they traded for him, they did it because they desperately needed offense. They weren't finding the bullpen pieces that they needed and the other pieces that they needed. It was just a bad market for them. And their offense was floundering with Judge and Stanton out. They thought, well, add some power. He certainly performed pretty well. He's a very good player. But, yeah, I don't think he really fits the Yankees unless they believe he's a second baseman. And I don't know. He doesn't look like a second baseman to me. I don't recall him playing in Washington, but I've heard it didn't go very well. That doesn't mean he can't learn how to do it. But, you know, he doesn't look like a second baseman. I mean, I don't know. I have to sit down. I think he's a valuable trade piece. That's the way I look at him, yes. Yeah, I'm with you, John. Hold on. You know, we mentioned that World Series, Brewers and Rays, Milwaukee obviously won it. Their championship manager is Pat Murphy, and he joins us next on the show. Well, this person's been a frequent guest, and I... Usually would introduce him this way, three-time NL Central champion, two-time NL manager of the year, up for it again this year, two times best record in the major leagues, but I get to do this for the first time and it's a joy to do it. World Series champion, manager, Pat Murphy, thank you for joining us on the show. That's really my pleasure. Uh, it's really our pleasure, Pat, uh, uh, Murph, I, I wonder, it feels like when I was down on the field afterwards, it felt like it feels on the field after every World Series, which is it's fast and it's a haze and the hugging and alcohol. What, what lingers for you, uh, in, in, in the time since, you know, reaching, I'm sure a career and lifetime achievement. Yeah. I think the most, uh, thing that surprises me is that I practiced for so long staying just even and I didn't let my emotions go either way too much and I didn't really get as excited as I thought I would be. I haven't really let it go. There you go. So for me personally, it's been just joyful, you know, just seeing my family there, seeing all the lives of the players and their families and how that affected them. And how great they feel about themselves watching them celebrate, watch them do the parade and then rally after and then go to the Packers game. And then now last night they were basketball and just seeing the joy in their eyes of their achievement fills me up inside. But I've I've just I've been very busy. So it's been it's been no time to really just sit back and relax yet. You have been busy and you were on SNL, you were on the Today Show, so we're very honored. You are probably our most frequent guest, even beating out all the Yankee and Met people, which is really something. So we really do appreciate that. I know you told your players in spring training that you felt the team could win, but when did you really think this team could win and when did you think you actually would win this? Yeah, I mean, I didn't know we would win the World Series. There is, you know, You know, there's a lot of great teams out there, very powerful teams. And I didn't know that. I just knew that this group was a great group of guys and they would pull together. They would have that mindset that said we can overachieve or whatever that is when the team pulls together and you play winning baseball. And when it started out early, I didn't know for sure. And I was saying all year long, like we really never got on a roll. I never felt like, wow, this group's special. I did see special things, but I never felt like, wow. But when the Padres series happened, the first series of the postseason for us after the bye, and we won the couple games the way we did, one and two, I'm like, you know what? This Padres team was really, really good. And I'm like, and they were hot. And I'm like, wow, you know, we might be able to do it. But we had the Dodgers looming. So then, you know, but during the season, I never, even though we won 103 games, I was just like, for whatever reason, it was daunting thinking about how hot the Padres were, how good the Cubs and familiar with us they were. So we had to play the winner of that. And then obviously if the Dodgers get through, wow, you know, we got that, that repeat series. So it was hard to have that feeling like, yeah, we're going to do it. You know, Murph, watching your team play, you know, when you watch a team for a week, you know, I think the national perception is, oh, there go the little Brewers. And I'm like, little Brewers? The little Brewers have great players. Like, Chourio's a great player. Terang's a great player. Contreras is a great player. contours, this version of Ashby, McGill, Abner, Uribe. I mean, let's not kid ourselves about this. And so I just wonder, once you have the great players, how much of this... Is a journey of toughening up, of losing to the Dodgers four in a row and learning what that feels like and learning how to get through rounds of the playoffs and holding off the Cubs year after year. And finally, is that the last piece is kind of learning how to get through rounds of the playoffs? Yeah, I think it is. And it's not just like. Anyone can do it. Things have to go your way. You have to have the team, and then you have to have things kind of go your way. It's a crapshoot in the playoffs. I mean, look at the Padres. We get a ball knocked off the roof that we catch, whether or not it's a home run or not, whatever. That could change the game. And then we have the incredible walk-off at-bat after the at-bats to load the bases against Miller. I mean. So that's putting yourself in a position to do it, but then also doing it and having that ball hit two inches to the right is caught by Cronenworth and the rest might be history. Thank Having the team that's willing to endure, the team that's willing to play that win tonight with that win tonight mantra, that's the key. And then if you have that, and then those players look a little shinier because they're playing with each other. They're playing to win. you. You're not looking at their numbers. Like you're saying, you're not looking at Churrio's numbers. You're saying, that kid's a great player. Well, look what he hit in the postseason. And you're not going to say, oh my God, that was unbelievable. You know, you're just going to say. You know what you know from watching. Same thing. When the guys are playing winning baseball, And they have confidence. God, that's scary, scary. Joel's right that you do have great players, but you were predicted to win 82 games. And I mean, you have one $100 million player, which is not very many, particularly in that tough National League. I mean, you probably should win Manager of the Year for a third time in three years. What is the secret sauce? Why have you been so... I mean, this is your first... Full-time managing job at the Major League level. What is it that has made you this successful this quickly? Well, I don't consider myself that successful in my own mind. You know, I just don't. We can go off on a tangent and talk about that. But what's more important, what the secret sauce is people. And we've got the right people. You know, when you talk about a Churrio, you talk about a Terang, you talk about a Yelich, you talk about a Contreras. Those dudes are willing, you know what I mean? That's what it is. Those dudes are willing. You know, the answer to this might be that those dudes are willing, but I do wonder, you know, it became a question, I think, over the course of the season. You manage your players in a certain way. You're not... You have a standard, and if your players fall below the standard, you're not afraid to deal with it, including publicly. And there is maybe this feeling that could work in Milwaukee, but would it work everywhere? Now, I call bullcrap on the big city guys who say it wouldn't work there. I think players want to be led, but you've got to have a standard. Would the way you manage work Chicago, New York, L.A., Boston, Philly? I don't know. I got my hands full here in Milwaukee, so I don't know. I'm talking more about the style, Murph, even the overview, like the ability to publicly hold players accountable. Well, it's no different than you writing in St. Louis. Could you, in your style, write in St. Louis? I was there. I'd have to keep the door locked, but yes. But of course you could. You know what I mean? We are who we are, and I'm going to get better, and I'm going to, you know, and if I'm managing Jazz Chisholm or I'm managing Paul Goldschmidt, you know, then it changes. You know, not your philosophy, not your standards, but it changes because it's just dealing with individuals and saying, do you understand the standards, you know? And don't put me in a position. Where, you know, you're falling below the standards or ignoring the standards. And if you are, then I've got to act. You're basically slapping me in the face or spitting at me saying, hey, look, I don't care about your standards. I'm going to do me. Well, if you're going to do you, then we're going to struggle. So let's get it out. What is you and what is me and what are the standards and how can you understand it better? And having those critical conversations. I think is a key. Now, I'm not saying I'm better than anybody that's managing in those cities. Please believe me. I don't look at myself. I just don't as a great manager or as better than someone. I don't compare like that. I can't take the time. I got my hands full. The point being is. The way we lead people, I think that everybody has to be led a little differently, but in the general sense, it's not too far away. It's just getting to know them. Joel, once they know you really give a damn about them and you love them, love them to the point of like, I care a lot about your life, about your success. I'm in the boat with you, but these things have to happen. And if we don't agree with that, then let's talk about it. But once we agree with it, then let's go. And we're going to have, we're both going to have crappy days. I mean, Yelich came into my office at one point during the year. He wasn't going good. And I could tell our relationship felt strained a little bit. I don't know when exactly it was, but more than half the season, more than the halfway point. And he came in and sat down and he said, you know, and he started going. I said, let's just talk. I said, tell me some of your frustrations. Tell me what's going on. We had such a great conversation, but it wasn't easy. You know what I mean? It was him expressing some things, and I really thanked him. I said, that's awesome, man. I'm so happy you did that. I don't want this to be a big thing, but it really helped me that he gave me the perspective that he thought. Um, in the, in the kind of the way I should go down the road going forward, uh, knowing me as well as he has in the last eight years, whatever. So it really, it really was helpful. Since you asked the question, I'll try to answer it. You certainly would play in New York, uh, Joel in St. Louis. I don't know. I might have to think about that one. Joel's a New Yorker. Let's, let's be fair, right, Joel? I think that's fair. I didn't mention I'd have to lock the doors. Of course. So Contreras, you mentioned him earlier as one of your good guys on your team. Now in Atlanta, they traded him, and that was a great trade by the Brewers that was really worked out fantastically. And part of that was because Atlanta somehow just didn't love him personally. I think there was something. He was too emotional. They thought he was selfish. I don't know. Tell me. I know you obviously, we know that you sat him for not hustling one time, and then he dived into first base. Head first, and you said, this is how we communicate. Tell me, really, how was your relationship with Contreras, and what are your actual thoughts about him? Yeah, I mean, first and foremost, he's a great player. Like, this kid's so capable. Like, the better version of Contreras is out there. I'm telling you. He still can get better. You know, way better. Because offensively, he's so dangerous. And he doesn't... He doesn't understand that yet. You know, he doesn't have the discipline at the plate yet. But he is a, you know, top 15 hitter in the game, potentially. And then defensively, his feel for the game, his willingness to lead, his feel for calling pitches is really good. Now, it gets sidetracked, too. But giving him that opportunity, Atlanta wasn't giving him that opportunity. And he was a young player, and he's emotional. And you make mistakes like that. You know, you do. You make mistakes. But I will tell you, Walt Weiss called me, and he said, Murph, there's a lot of good in this kid. I'm telling you, there's a lot of good in this kid. That's all I needed to hear. And Walter and I are really close friends. And that's all I needed to hear. Now, has it been easy? No. Because getting through to some players is tough. And what they respect and what they don't respect and learning them, that's our job. So if you can't coach William Contreras, you're not going to be a successful coach in my mind. You've got to be able to coach that guy. You've got to be able to coach that tough personality. And it's only tough because he's really a beautiful kid who just holds everything in, doesn't trust a lot of people, and has really, really high standards for himself. It could come off as selfish. But it's a good selfish because he understands how to be a winning player. So, yeah, I joke about it, but it was a great thing. We would never have won without him. He doesn't play good or he's being selfish or he's feeling slighted. We don't win the thing. You know, Murph, maybe the World Series is kind of as close to a New York feel as you're going to get. And one of the things you learn along the way is the cameras are always on. The microphones are always on. So let me ask you about something you got caught saying during the World Series. Harry's, uh, you- It was really a nice gesture by Jake Bowers, right? He had the final ball that he had caught for the final out to end the World Series. He gave it to you. Uh, which I thought was a beautiful moment of, uh, appreciation and, and justice there. And, uh, he's going to, he is a free agent now. And you said to him, and even the New York, I'm going to bleep a little here. Uh, you're going to be a rich bleep. Uh, just remember that when you were on that horse bleep Yankees team and you guys are all playing for yourselves, just remember, this is the way we used to do it. I want to talk about what you were going for in the Yankees in the middle. And I will say, Bauer was a Yankee in 2023. It was the only time in about the last 10 years the Yankees didn't make the playoffs was 2023 when Bauer was there. And Bauer wasn't this Bauer. Right. So we had a little thing going. Once the regular season ended, I told him, Jake, you're going to be a rich son of a gun, you know. And so after every celebration, I'd shake his hand. I'd say, you rich so-and-so. I said, you're going to leave us. We're not going to be able to pay you. You're going to leave us, you know, and you're going to forget all about how we did things, how you were using the opposite field, taking your walks. All the things that made you great, swinging, you know, not auto-swinging 3-0 or 3-1, understanding the offensive game, understanding how to help your team, passing the baton. I would just give him this rhetoric every time. Oh, no, you'll forget all about us, you know. You're a rich guy now. You were one of us before. You know, you were a junkyard dog. Now you're going to be rich. So I didn't mean to say. Like these Yankees, like the 2026 or whatever Yankees are selfish. I was just referring to the teams that have a lot of, you know, high paid long contract players that, you know, sometimes it's harder to get all those guys together to play together. And, you know, I use the Yankees because I knew Jake was with them before. But, yeah, I mean, I called Brian Cashman right away. When I heard it got out, I didn't know how to talk about it. But I heard the next morning we were at the parade and everybody was talking about it. I'm like, what? How did they hear that? You know, hot mic. And I'm like, whatever. So I picked up the phone and called Brian right away and had a good conversation. The best I could try to explain that I wasn't talking about the 2026 Yankees. I was just kind of referring to the teams with a lot of money that signed a lot of players that Sometimes end up, you know, not being that little, you know, little engine that could, so to speak. You know what I mean? More of a high expectation. I got to get mine. I regret saying it. But, yeah, that was Jake and I's humor behind the scenes. And, yeah, I got caught. Did Cashman buy it? He's just such a good guy, man. He's just a level-headed. I mean, he's been through so much. He's got, you know, how many years has he been in New York? Oh, 29, 29 as GM, uh, probably 40 since, uh, you know, the beginning of the organization in the late eighties, he became the GM in 98. Yeah. I mean, that's iconic. You know what I mean? He's been through everything, you know, I wish I had his, his demeanor and his, uh, way of, uh, handling things. Um, but yeah, I felt, I felt, uh, horribly if I slandered the Yankees because I was just, kind of referring to them as this iconic machine that maybe isn't as, I don't know, it's just an easy way to refer to it. It wasn't smart on my part. I'm sorry about it. Let me just say, this is what makes you special. I heard a lot of people complaining that that got out. And, you know, I mean, I guess it's kind of a gray area. We were kind of in the afterglow of that. You were the champion there, but we're all on the field. The media is there. There are cameras there. There are mics there. I don't know exactly how it got out. It wasn't me, but... Well, it sounded like you were trying to admit something there. No, no, it's not me. I, I, I. I'm not very good with technology, so it was not me. I will say, I appreciate the fact that you apologize and you talk to Cashman and you don't blame the media for, because it is unusual that something like that, which is a private conversation, although it kind of happened in a public setting. So anyway, so I appreciate that. You're in a public setting, you're in a public setting, you have responsibility. And those words, I mean, I could have, I could have said, Jake, don't forget about us. You know, don't forget about us. You know, you're rich now. You know, don't remember little people. I did not have to refer like that. But that was kind of Jake and I's thing because he came back to being, I don't want to hit homers. I don't want to just hit homers. I want to be a complete offensive player. You know, he had 10 bags. Thanks, He played hurt, you know. And, again, his walk rate has got to be the top in the league or one of them. You know, those are things that make guys special. And he had never done that, never got that opportunity. So I don't know, man. And I, ugh. Yeah. guys. Well, you were right again, and I'm not quite as cautious as Joel. He is now a rich ******. So he is getting, I did get the qualifying offer, right? So 23 points. So that qualifies by my standard as rich. Yeah, that's rich. Let me ask you about the other team, because you came very close to becoming the Mets manager. You had three interviews. They flew you in, I believe, three times. Uh, and I, Brody Van Wagenen, who was the GM at the time, was going to hire you. I think that is clear. He's my, he's my agent now. He is your agent now. So that shows you how much he likes you. Uh, it shows all of us how much he likes you. Uh. Obviously, they decided to switch at the last minute. It wasn't Brody's call. They hired Carlos Beltran. He didn't last one game. We'll get into all that at this point, but I wanted to ask you about that. What were your thoughts at the time? I know you were a bench coach, so you're going to be manager. You're probably taking the job, I assume, but you let me know that. What did you think about that? My understanding, I heard that when they flew you in, they didn't exactly get you the top ticket on the plane. I was wondering if you could talk about that a little bit. It's a little surprising. Now you want me to beat up the Mets. Now you want me to say something negative about the Mets. You can lie. You don't have to beat up the Mets. You don't have to say it was 34B. Maybe, you don't have to. 36. 36B. 36B. I'm sorry. God damn it. We talked about it and I forgot it was 36. I mean, you're getting a big job. You should be flown. if not private, at least first class. Anyway, tell me about that situation and what you think now. I think the plane thing was just more a matter of it was hurried. When can you get in here, whatever. And I think it was hurried. I told them I wanted to fly direct. I didn't want to jump all over the country. And that's what led to the 36B. And I had no problem with it. Well, it wasn't very comfortable, but you're not you're not a small man, Murph. Yeah. So sure enough. Sure enough. Yeah. I was excited about the job, you know, and I was excited to meet Brody and all the people that I met through it. They have a great interview process. I mean, it was it was tremendous. I mean, literally, I was sitting there at one point. At a round table, they showed video of a game, and then they would stop it. And I was armed with all the information, who was available in the bullpen, who had pitched recently, what the game score was, what the situation was, I had the game card in front of me, and they were giving me situations. What would you do? Think about this. What are your considerations here? And then they did another portion, and they did like five or six scenarios there. Then another portion of it was, was doing a mock press conference. And then it was doing a mock post game and they brought in employees from the Mets to sit in the, sit in the crowd. And then Jessica Mendoza was one of them. We laughed about it this week. Thank But, you know, they had, so they had those experiences and asked tough questions. Robinson Cano is over 24. Is he still your three hole hitter? And you got to answer right then, you know what I mean? And some of it's, you know, hypothetical, whatever. you. I mean, all of it's made up, but there's some really good questions. And I love the process. And then I got to meet with the owner, and, you know, it is what it was. But, yeah, I thought 100% I was getting the job until that last meeting with the owner. I kind of knew they were going in a different direction, or he was going in a different direction. So I was I was I was upset about that. I put in a lot of time. I wanted to do it. You know, my daughter lives right outside the city there in Jersey. My grandkids are there. You know, I wanted to do it. Yeah. And just to be clear, the owner we're talking about at that time is Jeff Wilpon, right? Yes. Yes. You know, Murph, when I worked on that story, I called Brody and something stuck out to me that you had you had recruited Brody to try to come to Notre Dame. And like when he went to Stanford and I realized probably over the last 40 years of baseball. There's like six degrees of Pat Murphy. Like somehow I can connect everybody to you. And now I think to the champions go the spoils. Maybe it's outside of baseball. You were part of Saturday Night Live last week. All right. And why don't you tell us some of the famous people you ended up sharing some time with, Thank not only on air, but apparently off air as well, right? Yeah, I wasn't going to go to the after party. I'm I'll take your tickets, man, anytime. starting Yeah. Lauren Michaels and Tom Hanks and Steven Spielberg, you. we all went up in Lauren Michaels' office with Yelich and Terang, to and we just sat there. speak Abrams, the guy that developed, the producer that developed Star Trek. J.J. Abrams, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Seven of us sat there. now. No beverages, just sat there and conversed. I gave Tom Hanks my game hat from the World Series. I didn't wear it on the show, but I had my game hat with me from the World Series, and it fit perfectly, and he said, I'm not taking it off for him. I'm wearing this. So it's going to get paint on it. It's going to get garbage on it. The next time you see it, it's going to be dirty. I'm not putting it on a shelf. I'm wearing it. And, uh, we had such great conversations and, uh, you know, Lauren's a huge Yankees fan. So he ran down the whole hot mic thing with me and, you know, you know, gave me his opinion and all that kind of stuff. And I was just like, wow, you know, um, And I, you know, Aaron Boone, I've gotten to know him and I really, really like him. You know, I really, really like him. So Lauren and I were discussing that. Hanks is doing a movie about being a pitching coach. You know, he's going to be a pitching coach in a movie or something like that. So he said he was he was studying my mannerisms. And he goes, ah, I really didn't get much from you. You just got the same face for nine innings. Thank It's just wonderful to be around such guys that have achieved so much. Uh, last thing, Murph, uh, our mutual friend, uh, and colleague, uh, I think it was in Tom Verducci's article, uh, closing the World Series that before the finale, you were working on some you. stuff for 2027 and spring training already, which of course, probably just like a, like, like a glove. I wonder what you just think about the near future. You're going to be a championship manager. Like, what do you, what do you, what do you think moving forward here? Yeah. I mean, Um, I love that thought, you know, I sat at my table this morning, the same table I'm sitting at, you know, did the same thing, did more notes on individual players and maybe things that I'd like to leave them with that they can work on when they begin their workouts. Um, yeah, I mean, it's what you do. It's not, that's not surprising. You know, that's just, that's what you do every day. It's your club. I tell people, you know, I write their names down on a yellow pad. Um, And if you have the longer legal size yellow pad, you fit all their 26 names on it easily. And there's more than 26 because there's guys on the fringe. And then you just. What's a message for them or what's something I need to remind them? Or, I mean, it could be something personal. It could be something about their conditioning. It could be something about their repertoire. It could be something about, you know, something simple. You know, how do you stay behind the ball when you're not feeling strong? You know, you're not feeling, I wrote this morning, when you're not strong and it's game 132, how do you keep yourself from drifting and feeling weak so you feel like you've got to generate more? How do you do that? What's the reminder? What's the key that you can tell yourself so you don't do that? You know, just little things that it's fresh in your mind. So, you know, one of my key takeaways is like in the World Series, in the playoffs, you're not going to get a matchup. You know what I mean? You can fight for a matchup all you want. You're going to have to hit left on left. If you're a right-handed hitter and you don't deal with right-handed slider well, well, you're going to get beat. So let's work on that now. In the postseason, you've got to be able to be productive somehow. I don't mean hit .500. You have to be productive. So how do you do that? And if you're a pitcher, you've got to get out the opposite hand of people. You've got to be good at it. You've got to know how to not give up damage, take advantage of guys that are emotional and want to swing. I mean, there's a lot of guys in the series that I notice that just are in a hurry to get their bat over because they're uptight. How do you fight that? You know? You know, I did hear that you were preparing for spring training right after you won the World Series. I'm wondering, first of all, it's four months to spring training. And if we are even having spring training, it might be six months or eight months. Who even knows? I mean, as you think about this, and you're a very smart guy, does this strike you as crazy? And did anybody stop you from doing this and say, well, let's celebrate. This is a pretty good thing we just did. Um, it doesn't strike me as crazy. Uh, although one might say I am, but, um, or maybe more than one, uh, it's just what I do, you know, like, it's just, that's all there is to it. I mean, this is, this is my life and, uh, I'm not going to Europe. I'm not, um, you know, I'm, I'm just not interested in, in, uh, I got my kids and, and, um, you know, this job, My health and things like that. I don't have. I don't have a lot of other things that motivate me the way impacting players motivates me. You know, Murph, that's the perfect way to end it because I think the column I wrote at the end of the World Series was the right team won. The team that had been best all year won, the team that played the best in the postseason won, the best team won. It was right that the right manager won also, a baseball lifer. Like you just said, and look, we're selfish, John and I. You're a friend of the show, and when I saw you down on the field, it made me feel good to go up and shake your hand and say congratulations on winning, and I feel good that I get to do it again. Murph, congratulations on something well-earned, being a championship manager. Well, hey, man, thank you, guys. I appreciate you guys. Yeah, I respect what you guys do. You know, and unfortunately, Unfortunately, I don't read your stuff, so maybe I wouldn't respect it. Thank you for that. Well, maybe if I move to St. Louis, you'll read me. So apparently that's a big part of this. I'll be really interested in that. I'll be in your division. Let me just say, you're not just a friend of the show. You are the friend of the show. I keep score, and you've been on here more than any Yankee. I still can't believe it. You're like Tom Hanks on Saturday Night Live. You've got to get one of those jackets. Come on here. You better check your ratings then, because the boring guys usually don't get good ratings. Well, I mean, you were on the Today Show, SNL, and now you're doing us. So we're flattered. We really are. Murph, all the best. Have a healthy offseason. And I hope we do see you in regular spring training. All righty. Look forward to it. All the best, Murph. Thank you, guys. John and I, of course, thank Pat Murphy for joining us once again on the show. John, hit or error? Yeah, Murphy's the best. I'm tempted to give him the hit, but I'm going to give the hit to contact hitting. I'm glad to see that back in baseball. The two teams in the World Series were the leaders in. It's hit singles, batting average. It's not all about launch angle. Thank God. Hopefully we're through that. It's a copycat sport. I'm hoping other teams do copy them. I think now with the average fastball up from where we used to be when I started around 90, now it's around 95 for the average fastball. I think the launch angle stuff and the going for the home run stuff, it's over at least temporarily. And you got to put your bat on the ball. And congratulations to the Brewers. and the Rays for being ahead on this. It might be partly because they couldn't afford the power hitters, but they're also very smart franchises, and they did do a great job as well. Yeah, I wonder if the Yankees hear you on that, John. I don't know that they believe that. Thank you for that. I'm going to give an error. Not because there's not great people on this new, the new era ballot, the contemporary ballot, what used to be the Veterans Committee, eight people were mentioned. I think we all expect that Dusty Baker and Bruce Bochy are going to emerge from that eight-person ballot and be elected to the Hall of Fame next month, early December. There's a 16-member committee. You've got to get 12 votes from that committee to get in. John and I, this is a smaller committee John John and I are not on like the big. Big one for the Hall of Fame, for the BBWA. But I'm confused. Lou Piniella and Dusty Baker are on the ballot, John. And I'm here to say, yeah, great. The Hall of Fame, both should be in there. Tell me how they separate themselves from Davy Johnson and Felipe Alou, who are not on this ballot. Like, I think all of them have very similar backgrounds. They were all well above average baseball players who were not Hall of Famers as baseball players, but like who wouldn't have taken every one of their careers? They were all long. They played long and played well. They all managed in multiple places and succeeded. They all, except for Felipe, won a World Series championship as a manager. Felipe, though, I would say more than makes up for that. He was the first star born and raised in the Dominican who played in the major leagues. He is the patriarch of the first family of Dominican baseball. We know one of his sons is Moises Alou, who was a great player. We know well his other son, Luis Rojas. Who was manager of the Mets and has been third base coach of the Yankees. Please, uh... I just feel like Davey Johnson has passed. Uh, Felipe Alou is in his nineties. Uh, it's worse if you're, if, if we're going to get to this and you're going to do it 10 years after a guy passes, I think you're missing an opportunity to celebrate a great baseball, great baseball lives while people are here. I know you could probably say that about all eight guys who are on this, but I just don't see how, like when you're splitting hairs on these managers, why are, why, why are. And you know we love, Dusty's a friend of this show. Lou Piniella's been great to us over the years. Like, they belong in the Hall of Fame. This is not a rant against them. It's a, how do they separate themselves from Davy Johnson and Felipe Alou for me? I miss this. Yeah, I have a thought on that. But my bigger thought on it is that the Hall of Fame is too exclusionary. The idea that we knock people off the ballot if they don't have 5% of the vote, that doesn't make any sense. We've knocked off so many guys who are... Have excellent cases for the Hall of Fame with 3%, 4%, whatever. We just look ridiculous. Let the ballot be bigger. I don't know. They like to have so many committees. They have some committee that limits it to eight. I don't know any reason why it had to be eight. Certainly, Davy Johnson and Felipe Alou are deserving of certainly very strong consideration. are in that category. It is a difficult thing. There is a lot, you know, it's all very gray area. It's all, you know, unless you're Ken Griffey Jr. or, you know, Bruce Bochy, you know, you're probably borderline, right? You know, it's not easy, but I'm with you. I agree. Certainly both Piniella, certainly both Lou and Davy Johnson deserve it, as well as, as you mentioned, Piniella and the others that are on the ballot. Yeah, I'm not sure. Some of it, my smaller point is some of it has to do with marketing, right? That's life, right? Yes. Somebody has a big name, it goes beyond their actual record, and that has helped enable some people with one World Series win. As a manager, to get into the Hall of Fame, and others who have two to not even be on any of these ballots. Like, Cito Gaston is not. Tom Kelly. Tom Kelly. Yeah, Tom Kelly won two. Right. They're like the Tom Flores. I think it's marketing. Tom Kelly retired quickly and is a quiet guy and isn't out there and isn't. Funny, like some of the guys who've gotten in or have a big name and a big market. **** it, you know. That's life, though. That goes for everything, not just the Hall of Fame. Marketing is, unfortunately, a big part of things. It's about perception as much as reality. I wonder what you're talking about there. Anyway, what we're talking about here is what a great producer Tommy Hogan is. Thank you, Tommy, for helping us as you do every week. Apple, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts, please rate and review us. The New York Post Sports YouTube page, give us a view. And the off-season is off and running, free agency trades. And please stick with us on the show with Joel Sherman and John Heyman for the entire winter of transactions and more.