Jorge Posada Tells Us He Doesn't Feel Welcomed By The Yankees | The Show Ep. 224

Recently, I sent you a text. I said, I felt the team needed somebody standing next to Aaron Boone. Someone like you, Brett Gardner, someone who cares about the shield, the brand, the whole thing, and also has a lot of fire and a lot of baseball instincts to say, this is unacceptable. And here's why. I've lived it. A, do you think that could work? And B, do you want to do it? Yeah, Joe, it's got to be the right. I mean, I could. Uh, but, uh, but I don't think they, they want me there to tell you the truth. Uh, so why not? I don't feel welcome when I go there. John, uh, this is a good show for us for a lot of reasons. Uh, the biggest one is Jorge Posada was a favorite of both of us, uh, when we covered the Yankees in the way back. Uh, and, uh, he continues to be somebody I always enjoy talking to whenever we run into each other. Yeah. I mean, he's my favorite of the core four. I almost think Bernie gets a little short shrift in that, but I get it. The four came up together. Bernie was there a little bit earlier. He's a great guy as well. But, I mean, Posada, just an honest guy. You got to love him. You really do. He's just a terrific guy and the backbone, one of the backbones of some great, great Yankee teams and really the last really big dynasty. I guess the Dodgers are a dynasty too, but the last Yankee dynasty. Really looking forward to Jorge Posada. I'm sure we'll ask him about the dynasty. We'll ask him what he sees with this club, why he can't get to that championship level anymore. We'll ask him why he isn't around the team as much anymore, if he has some aspirations to do more in a dugout. John and I will break down some of the World Series and certainly the press conference that the three main Yankee executives had last week. We'll play hit or error at the end if you stick with us on the show with Joel Sherman and Johnny. John, you and I have not gotten together in this forum since the Holy Trinity of the Yankees, Hal Steinbrenner, Brian Cashman, and Aaron Boone did their annual dance to explain why it's all the players' fault and not their fault. Though one of them pays for the players, one of them picks the players, and one of them manages the players, it's apparently all the players' fault. um though uh uh it was not i think a great performance uh by that trio but i also want to say two things i'm not sure what a great performance would look like when you keep not getting to the finish line that you are promising your fan base so i don't know what that script would look like and i also think it generally gets lost i i told a friend of mine who is a huge yankee fan who was just treating them like and i go you know the yankees lose in october and get treated worse than the mets whose season ends about june 1st in a lot of years uh and the yankees get to the playoffs i think we hold the yankees to an incredibly high standard it is the standard that they keep telling us to hold them to it's kind of championship or bust uh take that wherever you want john the the blame game went on the players well championship or bust that's out a window at this point right i mean obviously and and again you know i i felt bad doing it saying that they should probably move on from aaron boone who's a great guy and a solid manager but uh you know i grew up in the steinbrenner era when it was championship or bust it clearly is not now but we'd like some semblance of that right we'd like to be somewhere close to that i mean i i feel like I should have asked him how in the get-together, Zoom, whatever we call it. You know, how many years do we get here? Is it 15, 20, 25 before we do something? I mean, I just think the time is up. Even though, you know, I think Boone's a solid manager. They let him go. Seattle, Houston, somebody would pick him up immediately. You know, he's a great guy. That helps him. but he has not gotten it done, and neither has Hal. 17 years, 17 years for Hal in a row. Now he won his first year when he was in charge. It happens. You know, Jeffrey Luria, same thing with the Marlins, won his first year, and then, you know, they didn't spend. At least the Yankees are spending reasonably, but I will say the one year they really spent was 2009, his first year, right when they got Teixeira, they got Sabathia, and they got Burnett, and they won that year. I mean, is that a coincidence? I don't know. Maybe we're in, I mean, here in Tampa, St. Pete, wherever we are at a World Series where we have, you know, the 19th payroll and the 20, I don't know, 25th or so payroll. Maybe spending isn't everything, but maybe, maybe they do need to do it. You know, I appreciate that Hal was at least on the call, but I do get it. You know, they have not gotten it done, which is, you know, they set the standards. So, you know, we're just going by what they said. And they really haven't backed away from it that much, a little bit. I mean, no one's going to be George, but he hasn't backed away from it that much. So let's see the Yankees get a championship. And then this World Series, we're seeing how far away they are, right? I mean, they got wiped out by Tampa. Tampa's getting wiped out, as we do this, by Milwaukee, right? I think the four, we've said this forever, that the four or five best teams may be in the National League. I'm not going to change that at this moment. yeah uh look we'll we'll get to it all uh the world series in a bit john uh i i will i i i'm not here to save Hal Steinbrenner's money but like i i when john it's my perception each year that this occurs that the Yankees don't lose because of talent like i don't like they just played the Rays and it wasn't like i was sitting and going wow the Rays are just better than the Yankees talent wise i think the Yankees had an overwhelming strength this year their rotation was outstanding uh and they were going to have that overflow into the bullpen which i thought helped and you know look injuries happen to everyone but obviously missing Judge uh was it was was a big deal i i almost wonder where would they have spent the money on who again i'm not here to do it it's like like i love Alex Bregman and like i guess they could have done Bregman eating the money on McMahon and you have just a better gamer third baseman who helps them with tenacity besides being a great player but you know like Bregman is a guy who actually hasn't been great in the postseason while being in the postseason every year he's all like a total hell get you in but he hasn't been great I love the player but as I think about where the money could have been spent is that where the money could have been spent like I'm not here to save his money I just think that the Yankees to your point about Boone whatever's going on like like if I were to conflate a little bit with the World Series John I'm watching the Brewers be savages in the box like they turn every at bat into a holy war and i think the best team of Aaron Boone's uh nine years and i don't know that it's that close was not the 2024 champions it was the 2019 team that won the division i think they won 103 games uh and from one to nine in the lineup that was that was the year they came up with savages in the box they were relentless where has that spirit gone where they fight it where they fight like like we're watching the brewers fight the same rays uh pitching staff that the yankees folded against you know you know what's funny is the guy who really is a savage in the box who fights every pitch is Jake Bauers who was briefly a yankee in 2023 he led the brewers in on base percentage he led the brewers in ops uh led the brewers in home runs he obviously turned his career around i mean i think they just do a better job getting the best out of players now does that fall on the manager the coaches whomever i'm not sure i mean i you know not everybody can be milwaukee but uh look uh you're doing an amazing job i mean to have faced uh Snell Schwell Yamamoto Rasmussen and peralta and i have gotten them to a seven era five outstanding pitchers five of the best pitchers in baseball they have a seven era combined against the brewers, they put the ball in play They do hit a lot of ground balls. You know, there's a little bit of discouragement about ground balls. We all have to have this launch angle. If you hit the ball hard on the ground, you know, a lot of them are going to find holes. But, I mean, obviously, you've got to hit the ball hard on the ground. But it's amazing what they do. They are tied for the youngest team in the playoffs with the White Sox at 27.7. They play the game right. There are very few youthful mistakes. I mean, we saw one from Cooper Pratt where he didn't really touch second base on that first game-ending play in game two. But basically, they do not make youthful mistakes. Their coaching is excellent. Everything across the board is excellent. And, I mean, look, they're a Nike payroll. They are 11th in spending in baseball, overall baseball ops. I mean, they've just done a great job. And, you know, what's interesting is Murphy, I mean, you know, he should win, probably should win manager of the year, right? But Kotak had them 82 wins. They won 103. Obviously, that vote comes out just in the regular season, but that probably should have been enough to get it. I kind of, yeah, we talked about it yesterday in the clubhouse a little bit, and Nazio was stubbing for him. Obviously, it's too late. I kind of think he's probably not going to win, but he deserves his third. And you wrote a nice column on how the Mets were close to hiring Brodie Van Wagenen at the time was the GM. Wow, what a difference. You know, and they ended up hiring Carlos Beltran. I mean, Murphy. And firing Carlos Beltran. Yeah, he didn't even manage a game, you know. And my suspicion is he doesn't have the thick enough skin to be a great player. I voted for him to Hall of Fame. I just, you know, he does not have a thick enough skin to be a manager. In any case, Murphy is amazing. and you know you see this in this throughout these playoffs where he has this one which i thought was a stupid saying win tonight he even says it during day games win tonight i i don't really get it uh but it helps them realize the urgency of things which i think has been lost on tampa and uh you know you can't be looking to lengthen your circle of trust in games one and two like the rays did with steven matz you know you got to go to your best right they haven't even use big brian baker who's been unhittable in the playoffs you know i don't think there's anything wrong with them they don't say that there is but uh you know murphy went to ashby uses ashby as the closer when necessary uh he's terrific i mean everything you see about the brewers right now is just terrific you got him credit i mean no team has swept both the lcs and world series they got a shot to do that you know john just to kind of circle back on the yankees Like, I would challenge Hal Steinbrenner and to some extent, no, not to some extent, and Brian Cashman to be, and Aaron Boone. Again, the three guys who were sitting at that press conference. And I know that small sample size and, like, runs, like, you know, we saw it last spring with the Knicks. You get on one of these magic carpet rides and suddenly, you know, you can't be stopped. Things are going well. But the Brewers are no accident. They won 103 games this year. They led the majors in wins last year. Just like the Boone Yankees, they've been to the playoffs eight of the last nine years you know this this is a exemplary team i don't know how Hal Steinbrenner could watch this and not turn to the people he's paying a ton of money and saying we just played the same team by the way we played them 13 times during the regular season and all the games that counted you know the first 11 that counted before the rays clinched the division on their home field they pretty much kicked our butt uh they won the division what why are they and against the against that same team the brewers are defying the pitching like they're not just one lane of lefty hitters who all hit the same and like are not battling and are losing their minds and and i john if you you you indulge me for a second in game one of this series david hamilton stupidly try to turn a double in the right field corner that Victor Mesa fields into a triple. He's thrown out on a relay at third base in game one when he should have clearly stopped at second base. It was a lot like game one of the DS where Austin Wells did the same thing. Like he got thrown out by Victor Mesa relay there. In game two, Yandy Diaz hits a ground ball to the left side of the infield. First batter of the first inning, Cooper Pratt makes an error. Just like Ryan McMahon did against Yandy Diaz in game two of the DS. Why do the Brewers stand up and fight back from those mistakes? They're not mistake-free, but they're aggressive. The biggest play in yesterday's game, which turned out to be a 10-1 final, might be their 34-year-old captain, who's going to turn 35 next month, Christian Yelich, getting a great secondary lead and flying to second base on a ground ball to Junior Caminero that gets overturned on replay. Remember, in that inning, they had not scored yet. That was going to be the third out of the inning. What followed was eight two-out runs. And that was because, like, what version of a Yankee goes that smart, great secondary lead, and that hard? And if I were Hal Steinbrenner, I would say, I spend a lot of money. How come this is not us? By the way, I would do it if I were the other 28 teams not playing in this World Series. I just come back to the Brewers are playing with tenacity, ferocity, and smart. Do we ever say those things about the Yankees? Well, that's a good recommendation for Hal. I wonder what goes on behind those doors. I mean, he seems to only fight back at the end, these rare zooms where he faces the media. I mean, I get that he's kind of rebelled against his father, or at least seen his father's flaws and done the opposite in so many different ways, with never firing anybody, never calling anybody out, rarely talking to the media never saying anything negative specifically about anything that goes on although he did kind of suggest the hitting coaches uh you know they were they're not doing so great apparently that was about the extent of it uh but you know i it it's it's you've said it it's toxic positivity they're too positive about certainly about each other uh they're too comfortable i i think you know they're all making a huge living uh and by the way Hal Steinbrenner I mean they bought the team for about 10 million dollars right and he paid a very small percentage of that 10 million i mean conservatively is worth 10 billion now so it's up a thousand times and you know then he tells us that you know they sold what 16 percent of the team uh to uh a group right yeah and uh and he did it for flexibility no he did because his siblings want to line their pockets what flexibility does this mean they're going to spend more uh that's what flexibility means to me it's a nice clever word uh if you said we're good we did it because we want to spend more on the team we have now a lot more money to spend on team that's great i don't think that's what flexibility means in this case i think it means uh that the richer get richer and that's the end of that story and i just think they're they're way too comfortable i just don't know when the what the end date is for when they actually do something uh drastic whether that be changing one of the big guys and i think i mean Cashman one has been in a playoff 24 to 29 times so i don't i don't see how he would be on the hot seat or they really just overwhelmed with spending. That's the way he won the one time. CC, Teixeira, Burnett. I know Burnett wasn't great for them, but that's how they won. John, you said a word that I love there. Comfortable. I think they've all been to the party too long. They've grown comfortable. I think Insular, where they think everything outside is just noise, as opposed to is there, can we learn anything from the outside world? I think, and when you have this spicy, because You know what's happened, John? They've had this feisty press conference before. And like part of the feisty press conference is, oh, you know, like I remember them like browbeating me where I was like, you got like eight right-hand hitters in your lineup. And they'd say, well, those are the best players on the market. Luke Boyd and Gleyber Torres and all the right. And I'd be like, you talk about having a lane when your pitchers pitch. You've given them one lane to pitch to. Do you not see this? And then like two years later, they go, yeah, we shouldn't have done that. And, like, this year they kind of finally acknowledge having two left-hand catches is stupid. I mean, stupid. Stupid. It's just stupid. There are a lot of right-handed catchers out there. There's a whole ton of them, right? Yes. Like, and so to me, they kind of ignore, chastise, curdle up into their insular world, and within 24 months agree, which is the Titanic trying to turn away from the iceberg. It's happening too slowly. And I think it's because it's noise. It's noise. It's not noise. You're being held to it. I think they get frustrated because they're like, to your point, make the playoffs 24 out of 29 times. Boone's made it eight out of nine times. I think Boone's played in four ALCS and one World Series. Like, they are, but we are holding them to the Phi Beta Kappa student. Like, this is, these are, this is a great team. The standard is greatness. Right. I mean, I'm sure in their minds, you know, and there's some truth to it, that the fans are a little spoiled, the media in New York's a little tougher, and they may hear a little more than most, but hey, they set the standard. So they only have themselves to blame. That's it. John, can I just, real quickly, before we get out of this segment, let's just, as John and I are doing this, the Brewers lead the World Series three games to none. It's the morning of Game 4. So, you know, by the time you hear this, this thing might be over. Can I just my my thing is like I love this time of year a little bit because I get to watch up close teams that I'm watching on television. And when they come to Citi Field or Yankee Stadium, but man, and I know you could get swept up on it. Some of these brewers are just wonderful to watch, like like Bryce Turang to me is as close to Chase Utley as you're going to get. William Contreras has by far caught the most innings in the major leagues this year and seems to be fresher than ever and his greatest skill might be turning balls into strikes on the challenge he was four on it in game three he's just great he's a two-way catcher he creates a difference at a time where there's so few two-way catchers Chirio is a great young player Sal Frelick is like a version of Brett Gardner he's just like on fire at all times playing hard to your point about Jake Bowers their bullpen is electric and Aaron Ashby's on one of the great runs of all time man there's no accident they they are up to 113 wins this year as we're speaking 114 gets them a title john you want to jump in on that at any point you rang terrific i mean defensively i think he's better than Utley i did oh yes he is defensively not offensively but He won a platinum glove, deservedly so. He makes life look easy. You know, it just points to how well they draft. I think he was in the 20s somewhere, maybe he was 21, I'm not sure, in a draft that was terrible. And the other 20 guys in front of him, you know, some of them played in the majors, obviously. It was the first round of a draft, but none of them were better than him. They've got the best player in the first round, at least, at 21 or 25, whatever he was picked. I mean, Contreras, that was a great trade. You know, I think for whatever reason, the Braves were a little exasperated by him for some reason. I don't know. You know, he's a little emotional. You know, but is that worth giving up on a guy that good? He's certainly better at Murphy. He's a solid player, but he's not Contreras, and it's unbelievable, the ABS. Even when they're like an inch, an inch inside, you see, he's incredible. When he challenges the umpires, he's got to just concede, I think, at this point. He's right every single time. Good job on Fralick and Gardner. I see that. Fralick's offense isn't quite as good as Gardner at the moment overall, but big hits, inspirational player, leader. Yelich, amazing. I mean, the guy is not young. He's one of the few guys over 30. I think they have about a half dozen guys over 30 on the team to have that type of speed and to get that lead and just made all the difference, right? The 8-2 outruns, not that the Rays were going to catch him. And the Rays, I mean, I'm going to give them credit for winning 98 games with this team. And they certainly look good against the Yankees, and I get that was one game and they had a tie run on third base and the two one-run games that they lost. But that lineup, to me, looks like a below-average lineup. Their bullpen is average, and I think the bullpen is a huge part of how you win, right? There's small market teams that have won, had great bullpens. Kansas City had an amazing bullpen. Cincinnati in 1990 had the best bullpen with the Nasty Brothers. And this bullpen from Milwaukee gives the Padres a run for their money in terms of top bullpen. Ashby is incredible. I wonder who the MVP is. I mean, Chourio is now 7-for-12 after getting four straight hits yesterday. But, I mean, for me, the MVP of the postseason, I don't know about the World Series, is this Aaron Ashby, who's got 15-and-two-thirds scoreless, and they just talk about how calm he is. That's what they said about Gasser, too. I mean, I don't think anybody knew that much about Gasser, and I think we weren't expecting as good a pitcher as he was. And, I mean, he came in a trade, right? Was that the? Josh hated trade. The most hated trade of the David Stearns era. They didn't make the playoffs. Stearns did a great job for them. There's no question about that. And Arnold's doing just as good a job. It's not better. Yeah. Yeah. Look, obviously, the Yankees have to look at this and say, man, we weren't better than Tampa Bay, seeing how they've showed up at this World Series. It's going to be a long winter with a lockout, and it's going to be a cold one for everyone from the Yankees. Don't despair, Yankee fans. Why don't we bring in somebody who knows a lot about the Yankees and winning? Five-time World Series championship catcher Jorge Posada joins us next on the show. John and I are so happy to have Jorge Posada, who's never joined us before, joining us, 17 years in the major leagues, five-time World Series champion, 275 homers, five-time All-Star, two times in the top six for AL MVP, and really one of our favorites to cover, a fiery smart spirit in the clubhouse. Jorge, thank you so much for joining us on the show. Thank you. Thank you for the introduction. Thank you very much for having me. Yeah. Jorge, I'm wondering, are you a keen observer of your old team during the course of a season and a postseason and if you do you are what here we are again right like they keep they keep getting to the same point running into a wall and not getting there you have a thought on what's going on with why the these yankees can't do what your yankees did yeah um yeah they keep coming you know up short and it's just about getting hot being healthy and all at the right time uh i felt like the pitching was phenomenal uh you know i felt like they had everything you know going forward um you know losing Judge uh not putting any excuses but losing Judge is a big piece in the middle of the lineup um you know and then you get guys that they you know they got in the in the trade and i felt like they got more of the same um so it was it was tough to to see it come up short you know because i thought they were going to go a little further all right thank you very much for joining us and as Joel said we appreciated you as a player from our perspective you're always uh cooperative and and kind i i know one of one of the Yankees came up to me at some point recently and said, you know, I hated you when you covered the team. I'm glad that you never did that. You were always very kind, and we do appreciate that. What do you think? Is there something that you could point to that they could have done differently? You know, obviously, they did bring up Garcia. They did trade for him, and he's a very good hitter, but, you know, it kind of duplicated what they had, right? Now, they have some big power hitters, but, you know, it feels like they were a little short in relief. They were a little short in a couple different positions. What would you recommend that they do, or what could they have done different? Yeah, yeah, I think, you know, now it's like moving forward. You know, like in the past, like you look and you're like, well, this didn't work out. So I think moving forward, yeah, the construction of that team has to be a little bit better uh when it comes to the team uh you know i think um we can't have you know three four DHs and three four first basements um you know you gotta have you know more of you know you're seeing in in the World Series now more of what you know we're walking in Tampa has they they're gonna platoon they platoon you know in the in the whole uh you know certain pieces are just gonna stay uh on the field at all times but if there's a lefty matchup you know you have you know a righty that's gonna you know compensate uh so i feel like they they really try to you know to fill those holes but you know a trading deadline some people are probably not available so it's hard to construct a team when they are asking for your best players uh and you can't move them because you know obviously the yankee system has good players coming up and i feel like that's the key i mean i feel like they need to deepen in more into what we have with gene michael uh the on-base percentage the guys that put ball in play the guys are gonna do um the little things to win ball games and i feel we got away from that you know jorge i think it feeds into something that when i watch these yankees and then i'm watching say the brewers uh six out between your team so like the last team to overcome two four-run deficits in the same postseason, 1996 yankees, before the brewers this year. The last team to have as good a record when behind in games in regular season and postseason as these brewers, 2009 yankees. So those are your first champion and your last champion for jorge posada. And I think part of that is about the spirit of every at-bat, every pitch, every at-bat, both sides of the ball. and to me that's what it feels like is lacking yeah like because i don't ever walk away from a playoff series and go boy that team just out-talented the Yankees yeah i don't think that i i thought your team especially like your 96 team was not as talented as maybe any of the three teams you beat in the playoffs uh and you beat them in the playoffs how does a team create a kind of for stupid words fighting spirit a better fighting spirit than it feels to me that these Yankees have yeah I think the players have to they have to push each other you know it's it's just how bad do you want it and and in 96 and you're talking about 2009 but you know that run that we had in the late 90s it was about how bad do you want it you had a core of players that were fed in their head winning is everything you know winning is the most important thing it's got hurt when you lose uh and i don't see that often not only with the yankees i don't see that overall with with the players i see i see the guys that win you know last year toronto atlanta but i saw you know toronto sorry and uh and the dodgers um i saw it more with toronto than i saw with the dodgers and and they lost but they they they got there they were that close to winning that world series and i see it with milwaukee i see with tampa it's just like how bad do you want to win um you know we had it in 96 and i go back to the construction of that team you know we had i think we were in 96 we had three switch hitters uh the the the construction has to you know balance that team and balance that lineup that if you don't do it and you get and you walk the next guy steps up and and it's got to happen like that uh we got to have guys that are on base percentage guys that put the ball in play guys say guys that make things happen the lineup has to be a relentless lineup like like the milwaukee brewers are i know you're not in the clubhouse but you a keen observer you're watching what's going on from a distance you probably read some stories you know a couple of the former great players have mentioned the lack of accountability uh that they see from the yankees that they don't really own their mistakes uh and you know this milwaukee team seems to do that um have you noticed that at all uh with this yankee team i mean there were a couple of goofy plays in the postseason and it seemed to me that there were excuses made rather than you know what i screwed up and won't happen again i don't know what do you think i i john i i it's tough to know what's going on when you when you're not there when when you know you know you see it from the distance uh i mean there were there was plays that are especially in the playoffs you're gonna see everything so you know it's so big when you don't cover second base or when you you know you don't cover first base or the you know the pitcher doesn't cover first base or you know uh you're not backing up a base all that thing is magnified during the playoffs uh so during the season if it happened and you don't address it that's when it's that's that's when it becomes a problem so you know it needs to happen more during the season and make these guys more accountable uh you didn't run to first base get them out of the out of the game make him make him you know understand that this this means something it's not a it's not a game it's really a job and some guys are not doing their job uh john mentioned use the term you're keen observer I mean I think if somebody doesn't know you're you're the son how long was your dad a major league scout in forever forever right like like it's a baseball family uh so so like when you went to Jorge Posada's locker when he was a player you were getting a very baseball life smart guy I I just want to add that you do you're not in the locker room but you do know the the principals who had a press conference the other day and they kind of all said it was about the players you know the owner you know Hal Steinbrenner you know the GM you know Brian Cashman you played with Aaron Boone uh you know them are the right people in charge of the Yankees uh yeah I think I think uh you know it's not on Booney it's not on Cash Cash tries to you know put the team together as best as he can is it on the players yes because they there are the ones that go out out there and play in the game uh do they make the decisions to not run to first base, to not, you know, yeah, I think it's on the players, 100%. You know, do they need to change a little bit? Maybe they're, you know, Boone is coming back, but you can make some changes in the coaching staff and, you know, bring in somebody that would, you know, push, you know, some of these players. You know, I think, you know, obviously it's New York, So, I mean, he's going to be a little tougher than Milwaukee, for instance. And, you know, I think that they are seeing fans that are a little bit spoiled. I think you guys spoiled them with winning all those championships. I don't think you deserve any blame for that. But I do think that is reality. You know, what do you think? I mean, you only played in New York. But you think, is New York that much different? I mean, we're seeing these small market teams now rise up. And, you know, these players in Tampa were great players. They move on. And some of them, like David Price, are still a great player. But many of them are not the same player. What do you think? I mean, I know you never played anywhere else. But is it that much harder to play in New York? It is hard to play in New York. But you have to, you know, look forward to being there. You've got to be, you know, like you say, you've got to be accountable of the things and the mistakes that you make. um you know new york is is the best when you win it's the best city in the world to you know the fans know the game so much um so it's fun to to be around a good team uh and come to the stadium and and have fun with your players and and win together that there's nothing better than that uh so you know i think uh they get the right kind of guys it will be a lot of fun uh i think they have a core of players are there are going to establish themselves they're young you know they're not it's not an old team so hopefully you know hopefully we can make some address some issues that we had during uh during this offseason you know you've used the word core a couple times i i it wasn't part of the introduction i should mention you were an important part of the core four that was that was central to all of those championships you know in your your previous when i asked you a previous question jorge you mentioned maybe you could change uh things around you bring in some kind of different fire and coaches you know this because i reached out to you i texted you you you managed for team italy into wbc uh i i kind of asked you then when i saw you in arizona training for it but i recently i sent you a text i said i felt the team needed somebody standing next to aaron boone someone like you brett gardner someone who cares about the shield the brand the whole thing and also has a lot of fire and a lot of baseball instincts to say this is unacceptable and here's why i've lived it do you a do you think that could work and b do you want to do it yeah i yo it's gotta be the right i mean i could uh but uh but i don't think they they want me there to tell you the truth uh so why not i don't feel welcome when i go there you know uh even in spring training uh i don't feel like you know i'm just like like i i don't know like i don't feel welcome i don't feel like they want me there so i don't go and where do you think that flows from what what i mean you're you're a five-time you're an historic yankee yeah i don't know i don't know uh you know what happened uh i'd rather just move forward uh my last season of the of my career was a really tough one uh when it comes to handling everything in my part and also the yankees you know uh towards jorge posada so it's it's tough to you know to go back and and feel that again well i mean uh that's uh terrible i mean uh if anybody should be welcome it's you you won five championship and i mean you know you're one of the backbones of those champion teams and i i think the fact that you were willing to be accountable and to confront guys who weren't doing the things that were right uh really just makes you more valuable uh you know that might be the reason that you were you know overtly honest i don't know is that could that be could that be it i mean i know you had a couple of little things with i and i think you've got you and Al Duke love each other but you had a couple things with him or somebody else i mean it was all on the road to championships i mean isn't that the way it should be i i don't know i'm uh you know i'm gonna express the way i feel and i'm gonna tell if something's wrong uh i'm gonna tell you that's the way i play the game uh you know we we wanted to win and we wanted to be there to do the right things and um i'm very honest uh you know and i'm uh that's my probably my toughest thing with with people uh i'll tell you straight up what's what's wrong that should be everybody's fault that they're too honest and upfront and you are you're not He's not just saying that. No, he's not just saying that. I agree, John. That was just how you were as a player and when you dealt with us. Look, you know, one of the members of the core four, Andy Pettit, is around the team all the time. He's in uniform. I think people would be surprised how much he's doing it. I mean, Jorge, I have to be blunt. I mean, your last year you obviously had struggles on the field and, you know, you wanted to play. You wanted to get to the finish line with some dignity. Clearly, if I'm trying to remember this, it's 15 years. you know it's been quite a while just is this a Steinbrenner thing is that a Cashman thing is it like like I don't I don't have any answers there uh Joe I I'll try to uh you know uh Girardi was in charge and I asked him uh I haven't had any answers uh with you know I haven't asked the question with with Cashman and you know not even with Steinbrenner you know you're not the only one we've heard this from and I think some people have come out uh some of the older players at least one or two of them have come out and, and suggested that they, they, at least not, not that they aren't welcome, but they, they, they should, they should have more of the great players around more. There are a few, obviously Pettit is one of them, but not all of them are. I mean, obviously we know Gossage had an issue. I get that one, you know, that run in with, with the GM. I understand that one, but you know, you have you've only been honest accountable and a champion so uh to me uh it is crazy so anyway so what are you doing would you like to be involved with somebody i mean you know joel suggested you know you could be a great bench coach you were i think the bench coach in it for italy right uh but you you could be a great bench coach uh you know i i you know you you obviously a very successful baseball player we don't see guys who had that kind of a career come in and be a bench coach uh what what was there a role you'd like to have in baseball and if not or whatever what are you doing now what are you up to yeah with uh you know i was working with the monies with you know the derrick when derrick stepped away you know obviously i stepped away uh but that role was was very very good because um you know i was here in miami the team was in Miami so you know for me it was a lot of uh you know it was comfortable uh New York for me is home uh but that role for me was easy because it was a special assistant to the to the to the owner uh so you know that could work because I don't have to be you know there all the time but you know if needed obviously I will be there uh and obviously I can travel uh what am I doing i you know try to stay in shape and and travel uh you know enjoy the i mean they're not kids anymore but enjoy the family and i'm a family man i love i love being around them so that's what i'm doing you know i didn't realize it until we had this conversation where hey the two people i recommended should be the bench coach are two people who are on the outs with the Yankees right Brett Gardner didn't like his end game either yeah and he hasn't come back uh to the Yankees. I wonder if there's something about being too blatantly fiery and honest for the institution. Let me ask you another big picture question. The Hall of Fame, you kind of came and went from the ballot. I'm not exactly sure that's fair. I don't like how we do that. We take people off the ballot. Everyone should be on for a while. I think you can make a case for one of the 20 greatest catchers in the history of the game, certainly one of the better switch hitting catchers in the history of the game uh i guess you'll get a shot with one of these veteran committees at some point circling back what do you what do you think about Cooperstown you know what it's hard um you know like you said uh the voting has to change you know just figure it out i mean what really really gets me is people that get the ballot the people that vote and don't don't even vote one person in that, that bugs me. You know, we play this game with a lot of integrity. I mean, it doesn't mean that I belong, but there's a lot of people, a lot of people that belong in Hall of Fame and certain people get the votes and certain people don't. What's going on? Do we need to change the way we vote? 100% yes. So that's my two cents on that. Let me just say, I was one of the few that voted for you. I voted for you and I voted for David Cohen because I believe it's the impact on the championships that really I think we overlook. That's number one. Number two is we shouldn't remove anyone from the ballot who didn't get the 5%. There have been a lot of people who got 10%. Billy Wagner got 10% or 11% at one point and eventually got in. I didn't ever happen to vote for him just because, you know, as I said, you know, I'd go on the impact. Do I think it's a bad vote? No, I certainly see the case for him. And I see a case for a lot of people. I regret not voting for Keith Hernandez. And, you know, whatever. You're absolutely right. We need to we do need to make changes there. You know, I think we've done an OK job in some circumstances, but it's ridiculous to move all the remove all that. I mean, Lofton, Edmonds, Grich, all the Delgado, all these guys who were removed from the ballot who were very very good cases and uh you know so obviously we we really don't know exactly what we're doing if you have somebody making 10 for getting 10 and then seven years later they get 80 so obviously something is wrong last question from me not related to that uh tell me i mean obviously the championship teams are fantastic we know that the core four, the prime, tell me something that we don't know. Maybe we're not know well enough about those teams that was pivotal in, in allowing them to win so many times. I mean, not only five championships, you were in the World Series a couple other times. I mean, it's, it's the, you know, a true dynasty. I guess the Dodgers are pretty close. They've done really well, but not three in a row. They didn't get to the three in a row. There was something special about those teams. Yeah, you know, I said it before, it was a job. When we finished the season, win or not, we got to work again. It was a family. We, you know, we had pretty much the same team, you know, moving forward every year. And, you know, for us was win or else. I felt like if we didn't win, we were going to get sent out. You know, if we didn't play well enough, we were going to get traded. That's the way I felt. You know, I felt like even though I had a good year, that didn't mean anything next year. So for me, it was very important to prepare, be ready for for the long run and a long October season for us. So it's got to be important. It's got to be it's got to be deep. It's got to you know, it's got to mean a lot. And we had a lot of those players always coming back. So I felt like we had a, uh, like I said before, a family and we brought the same guys because those guys that were role players were very important to keeping everything together. Uh, and accountability and relentlessness, uh, grinding players are, are very few right now. Uh, amen for that. Uh, I wonder if I could wrap up. I do think one of those grinding players is the catcher of the Brewers, William Contreras. I remember doing a story at the 2000 World Series, Jorge. I interviewed you and Piazza about what an advantage it is to have an offensive catcher, somebody who, you know, when the other guys can't. I felt it was one of the – And we should think of that when we have the Hall of Fame vote. Yes. It's one of the – I thought it was one of the reasons you two teams were playing in that World Series in 2000 is because of this disparity that you two guys created. I kind of feel that way about the two-way catcher now, the guy who's great on both sides. You have a lot of guys who frame or throw, but nobody can hit. Contreras is one of the few guys, and by the way, he's almost at 1,200 innings this year. He's doing this like, you know, like you mentioned to us, you've had some knee surgery recently, like the wear and tear on this. I just wonder, watching this wonderful two-way catcher, what you're thinking about the modern catcher in general and him in specific. You know, you're talking about, you know, the things that go unnoticed when a catcher gets behind the plate. Well, yeah, he threw a guy out. He, you know, he caught the ball and he, you know, the ABS. But the things that stood out for me was game two. There was a second and third. Tampa had a player second and third, and he blocked two balls. They were winning 3-1. Those two balls get away, that game is tied. The whole series completely changes. Nobody talks about those two blocked balls. And that, for me, is what a catcher is. You know, keeping everything, I mean, the running game, obviously, he's amazing at it. He blocks really well. He calls a great game. I mean, you see pitchers, they don't shake him. The Milwaukee Brewers pitchers do not shake him. He does a great job preparing. He does a great job analyzing that lineup. And if you have a seven-game series, He's going to know a lot more about you. I mean, he's looking at the coaches. I'll bet you the coaches for the Tampa Bay move when every time they, you know, a grip on the pitcher, all these things. I mean, he's aware of everything that goes on in the game. And he is amazing, amazing. I think that word describes Jorge Posada as well. Amazing, amazing. You were that as a player. By the way, you were that for reporters who covered the team. And anybody who listened to the past 20 or so minutes knows nothing much has changed in that way. And Jorge, sincerely, John and I appreciate so much you joining us. Thank you for having me and all the best. And I'm going to see you down the road. Let me just second that. It was a pleasure covering you. It was great having you on here. And you're always welcome as far as we're concerned. And I certainly hope that not only for you for other guys that i've heard that from not publicly but uh you know i think the great players should be welcome and you in particular because i think you were you know obviously a key part of that team and but also a great individual i think will help the team you know with your with your thoughts and i think that about you and i'm not going to mention the other ones i've heard that from but you're not the only one so thank you very much thank you very much for having me and all the best john and i of course thank jorge pasada for joining us on the show john hit or error uh i'm in a good mood i'm gonna do a hit i'm gonna give it to the brewer fans uh not just my nephew and my in-laws who are very excited uh christian yellich talked about how much it means to them uh that the brewers are doing this at this moment they haven't wrapped it up yet but We certainly expect them to. First championship ever for the Brewers, first in 69 years in Milwaukee. The Braves did win in 1957, but, I mean, they're 41st in market size. 41st, that's like, you know, 10 markets behind the next smallest market in Major League Baseball, and they're yet in the top 11 or 12 in attendance. That will tell you how much this means. And here in St. Petersburg, I didn't say Tampa, we're actually in St. Petersburg, and that's where the stadium is, too, or the Dome is, too. They had, I think, 25% of the crowd. I don't know. What would you say? About 25% of the crowd. The Yankees, this is Florida. We got a lot of New Yorkers in Florida. I think the Yankees only had 10% of the crowd, something like that. And Milwaukee, they traveled. It's not easy to get from Milwaukee to Tampa. It's a lot easier to get from New York. Tampa, you gotta get from Milwaukee, you've got to drive to Chicago, really, to get here. So I give them credit for showing up. So Brewer fans get it from them. The team's good, too, but I'm giving it to the fans. That's how I got here. I drove from Milwaukee to Chicago and flew here. So, yes, I admire them. John, can I ask you, if you were the city of Tampa, would you be concerned you're about to build a team, stadium that like allowed at least a quarter of their first World Series game played here since remember 2020 is a neutral site COVID since 2008 uh like like i couldn't believe how many brewer fans were at the game yesterday this is the first you know you've got a chance to get back in the World Series two games to one and and a quarter of the crowd at least is the other team's fans i was expecting it but i guess because i was here and they're walking around and And all the people in Packer gear, they're here obviously for the Brewers, and they were looking a little bit sad, I guess, against the Packers' loss. But certainly they felt a little bit better after the 10-1 victory yesterday. But, you know, the Tampa owners right now, they're going to be pretty excited. I mean, they just got in here. They're in the World Series, however this turns out. It doesn't look too good for them. But they got the new stadium. The other guy was there for 20 years, more than 20 years, and he never even came close to getting a new stadium. Somehow these two guys ingratiated themselves with the politicos down here and figured it out and the new stadium looks great it isn't built yet but the pictures of it looks great and it should be in Tampa, right? Because if it's in Tampa you get the whole I-4 and Tampa's a bigger city. St. Pete, by the way lovely, lovely city but Tampa's a lot bigger, much more I think they have five times as many big businesses. I was talking to the owner yesterday, but you also can draw from Orlando, although I wouldn't want to spend 90 minutes on that I-4 myself, but I think they're expecting some people to come from Orlando. Now you can't come from Orlando to St. Pete unless you're, you know, packing a suitcase. Yeah, just so the fans know what that's ultimately going to be, on the four corners of that on Dale Mabry in Tampa is going to be the Yankee minor league complex and Steinbrenner Field are two of the corners where the Buccaneers play is another corner and where the Rays play is going to be the other corner and they're going to build like what's in Atlanta and Texas like a little kind of like infrastructure around that of restaurants hotels etc it's going to be a very very high-end sports area uh John it's a tough moment with the Rays down three games to none but can i give a hit to the AL East uh i was i was just looking at it uh you know we keep talking about competitive balance we're worried about that it's about money we i know uh for for uh for this next CBA negotiations last 10 years every team in the uh uh AL East has won the division last 10 years all they've all made the playoffs at least twice uh last 10 years four of them have gotten to the World Series uh the Rays twice the Red Sox won it every year in the last 10 years except for 2023 interestingly the only year the Yankees didn't make the playoffs they've had a team in the ALCS nine of the last 10 years uh yeah i i look at this division and it has very big disparity in payrolls obviously Tampa Bay Baltimore to then Toronto Boston and New York we have two different countries involved in this division uh and it's really like steel on steel they make each other tougher at least until the World Series i if you're looking for competitive balance i think the greatest competitive balance is with the best division uh this is the best division year on year uh and Tampa Bay should be given credit they've won the division in the last 10 years as much as the Yankees three and three that's the most in the division uh and they've gone to the World Series twice it's it's an impressive thing within this division well that's a hit on the division but that to me is an error on the Yankees they shouldn't be balanced with anybody they're the New York Yankees let's be serious yep yeah i mean the one thing you could say if you were looking for a positive is uh when it comes to ALCS they've gone four times the rest of the division has gone five in this 10-year period uh okay like like like they but that's the problem is they get aside from the one World Series they kind of this is a like they die at some point here and uh please listen you said it you said it uh they play eight times they played a team with an equal or better record in the postseason and they lose every single time uh at one time step up guys come on yeah definitely step up uh our step up guys Tommy Hogan our great producer Tommy thank you so much as always Apple Spotify wherever you listen to podcasts please rate and review us uh download us listen etc uh the New York Post uh sports YouTube page give us a view and uh next time we come back john the world series will be over we'll be staring at unfortunately well fortunately a month of probably heavy-duty free agent and trade action, and then a lockout, and we'll bring it all to you if you stick with us on the show with Joel Sherman and John Heyman.