The Chancellor refuses to make 'crude cuts' to welfare bill

Chancellor, as recently as June, the Prime Minister said we'd have an end to neoliberalism. This was his, and your, first budget. As the Conservatives pointed out, there's 4p off the price of gherkins, 2p on a pie possibly, and a return to public-private partnership. This is not groundbreaking, Chancellor. I dispute that. They can decry the small things that we're doing, and if we can do them, we should do them. And I have, taking some of the tariffs off those sort of imports. But I've also frozen fuel duty. That helps farmers. That was already frozen, wasn't it? Where's the big, bold ideas, Johnson? And then the big political choices, they're on energy. It isn't just the household energy payment and asking the banks to help fund that for households. It is the... Abolition of standing charges for gas bills not being done before and makes people feel like this is really unfair. I'm having to pay regardless of how much I use. Beyond that, I'm taking, we've seen for 15 years, the costs of other policies put on levies on household bills. I'm drawing a line on that, and I'm set to soar on gas bills, Chancellor, by over £400 in January. That'll wipe out. Generous as that is, that's wiped out at a stroke in January. You know that. So that's why I bought the £100 payment to try and help people through the winter. There'll still be £300 down. But in the end, you can't remove entirely the pressures on families and on bills. What you have to do is tackle some of the causes that make these bills higher than Europe in the first place. When you were in your defence, you had a reputation for being fairly plain-speaking. The reality is, you need a general election, don't you, to be able to put in the policies that you and Andy Burnham want. That's the truth. Well, there will be a general election. No, but now, sooner than when the time... But the Prime Minister, Andy Burnham, has entirely ruled one out for next year, which is what some people are speculating about. We heard from Kemi Badenoch saying in the House of Commons, complete rubbish. What we're concentrating on now is giving people a bit of breathing space, both from the cost of living for households and the cost of business for those trying to move beyond next year. Could you go after next year? For a general election? Well, this parliament can run until 2029. Yes, but would you be keen to go to try and... Look, there's this matter from the Prime Minister, but he's absolutely said there will be no election next year. So, as Chancellor, I'm concentrating now on how do I help people where I can with a bit of breathing space on energy bills, axing standing charges on gas bills. We're extending the VAT cut on electricity bills, but making sure that we deal with a system at the moment that doesn't let business compete or households cope. And to change that for the long term, we have to make some of the big changes to our energy system, which I've also, for the first time, set out today. You spoke at length, and clearly you feel the need for growth. Isn't the reality growth would be stronger if we were in the European Union or the single market? Well, I don't actually accept that. I mean, it's been, it's certain. Brexit has certainly hit our level of growth. It's certainly hit our level of trade. But we had a referendum out of the European Union. The challenge for me now is how do we make the best of an economy, which this year has proved remarkably resilient. But would a return to the single market be another boost, Chancellor? I read some people suggest worth 4%, 5%. Isn't that the reality, a return to a single market? That's part of a bigger conversation that the Prime Minister wants the country to have because he recognises, and many other people do, that our Brexit deal was not a good one. It's not been good for Britain over the last decade. But my job now is to try and make sure, and you're talking about growth, is to try and reinforce that resilience in the British economy. I'm encouraged that the Office of Budget Responsibility has increased their growth forecast this year. Yeah, and... Really, in the last two years under this Labour government, we've seen government investment up. Right. We've seen private and business investment up. We've seen productivity up. And what I've done in the budget is to reinforce the fastest growth firms. Okay. Those who are innovating that will create the jobs and wealth in the future. When will my listeners feel things are getting better? Manifestly better. Well, I hope if they're in a business which has got the potential to grow, they will see this budget and they'll say, look, there's some steps in there to help us. If they are used to going out on their high street or working a shop or a salon, I hope they're going to say, hey, this is a government which wants to back our high street businesses, the pubs, the cafes, the bakeries, the pubs, the salons. The pubs are closing at the record rate, Chancellor. So that is the reason that I'm asking. Vape shops, online sellers, gambling, to pay a bit more so that I can take 70,000 of our high street businesses entirely out of business rates, because in the end, they're the ones that give our communities their character. They're the ones that make where we live a place we love. You talked about the millions of homes getting £100 towards their energy bills, perhaps zone band A through D. If this is the rental sector, how can you guarantee the landlord will pass on the money? In the end, it's, uh, it's... This is the most direct way that we can put money into people's bank accounts. But it won't work out. It will go to the landlord. Well, most people pay their own council tax. Right. And with the 20 million households, we're hitting four in five households. And for those that are concerned about, is this well targeted? I would just say to them, look, nine out of ten of the poorest households live in council tax. You think they will all get the money, Chancellor? I, I, look. Whoever's paying the council tax will get this payment, and it will be part of trying to help. But if it is a landlord, he or she will get the cash. The pressures. And you can't get around that, can we? The majority of householders tend to pay their own council tax bills, and generally, in my experience, you find tenants have to pay the council tax too. You said people and businesses and the economy are feeling the pressure and need breathing space. How are you feeling the pressure? Well, I'm feeling the pressure by not sleeping, preparing for a budget, actually. More broadly, financially, in your pocket or your wallet. Are you feeling pressure? Certainly I'm not, in the sense that I am a government minister and I have a... I would remind you, HP Sauce has gone up by 9% over the last 12 months, Chancellor. I mean, you must have felt the pressure of life. Well, I've certainly bought one or two bottles of HP Sauce in the last few months. You also talked about the importance of enterprise. Quotes. I know starting a company means taking risks. How many companies have you started? It's not about me, it's the people who are my friends. But you did say that as Chancellor. Do you think you're fully okay with that? I know you're a journalist, and I know you then worked in the charity. I've done all of that. Do you really know what it's like to run a pub? Or a nail salon? Or a hairdresser? Well, I think, you know, when your circle of friends, the people you mix with, you drink with in the pub, the people who are running the sort of kids' football club alongside you, Happens for me and other. They're the ones who are self-employed. They're the ones who are getting businesses off the ground. And part of my job as chancellor is to speak to businesses, be with businesses, visit businesses. And that's part of my job as a government minister, not necessarily to be doing the business myself, but sufficiently. I'm capable of understanding the pressures and I hope that those people who are starting up businesses with fast growth potential say, hey, this is a Chancellor that's on our side, given the measures I put in the budget. You want the UK to be a global leader in the sense of data centres. Why? Do you know how many we've got now and why do you want that? Why is that so important? 100% because unless we have data centres in this country, then we will not be able to be sovereign. Secure and in charge of our own AI future. But if I were to metaphorically take you to Slough, there are 40 in Slough. You said we will, quote, protect water supplies. You know how much water, obviously, there is. How are you going to protect water supplies? So this is a covenant which will require anybody wanting to build and get permission to go ahead with a new data center to demonstrate the community benefit, to control the water supply, and to make sure they create good local jobs. You ask me why we need data centers? How do we protect the water, Chancellor? If we want our NHS data to be secure where they are, we have to have it in this country. To have that, we have to have our data centers here. We've had droughts already. If we have hundreds of water... How will you protect the water? You can't protect the water, can you? What we said as part of the covenant is that they've got to develop their plans for building data centers in ways that deals with the water pressures. that produces community benefit and we've also said because we need this, Britain needs this, if we can make sure we can be secure about AI but also get the opportunities from it, we have to have these data centers and the system at the moment has been holding them up. You said welfare reform will be done, and again I quote Chancellor, in a Labour way. Could I ask you to expand? What does that mean? How will you reform that sector? Run a Labour way. Two things. First of all, we've got a million youngsters. Not in training, not in education, not in employment. 60% of them have never worked. And unless we get them off benefits, into work, with the experience that allows them to fulfil their potential, then they'll never produce their contribution to the country for the future. We'll give them support. We'll expect them and require them to take the opportunities we offer. And that's the way that crude... The alternative is just crude benefit cuts. And that, especially when people are suffering at the cost of living, There's a pressure too far. We can bring the benefits bill down, and we will. Prime Minister said that. I've said that. But we will do it in that Labour way. Lastly, 2007 was when, incredibly under Gordon Brown, the production of Brown's sauce left the United Kingdom. Chancellor, can you give an assurance you'll do everything you can to get the production back in the United Kingdom? God, I'd love to do that. And if there's a factory opening somewhere in Britain that's making HP sauce, I'll be there. I'd like to take you and we'll cut the ribbon together. Chancellor, thank you very much.