Flavio Bolsonaro claims he is Brazil's true leader after fleeing to US

This is apropos. Brazil's defeated right-wing presidential candidate Flavio Bolsonaro is in Florida after arriving in the U.S. by private plane defying a court order that had banned him from leaving his country. The 45-year-old, who's under investigation for alleged corruption and money laundering, claims he's the victim of a witch hunt. In a series of confusing statements on X, he also declared himself the true elected president of Brazil before publishing a different version using the word leader. Karis Garland has the latest. Three days after losing a bid for the Brazilian presidency, Flávio Bolsonaro, along with his wife and two daughters, disembarks from a private plane in Miami. The U.S. State Department said Tuesday that it would issue visas to the right-wing senator and his family. President Donald Trump, an ally of Flávio's father and detained ex-leader Jair, said he would approve of the younger Bolsonaro coming to the U.S. Bolsonaro's arrival on U.S. soil marks the end of a journey shrouded in secrecy. He first fled Brazil to Argentina by road and then took a private charter flight to Ecuador before carrying on to Miami. On Monday, Bolsonaro said the Supreme Court had ordered him to surrender his passports. Considering him a flight risk, he said he would comply with the order, but he ultimately failed to do so, leading authorities to cancel his documents. The politician is under investigation for alleged corruption, money laundering and tax evasion in two cases. He denies the charges. The 45-year-old loses his immunity from prosecution when his Senate term ends in February. Bolsonaro is yet to officially concede defeat in Sunday's runoff, even if his Liberal Party has acknowledged the results, which saw incumbent Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva garner 51.8% of ballots. Well, for more, we're joined now by Fabio Adisa e Silva, Associate Professor of International Studies at the University of Oklahoma. Thank you so much, Fabio, for being with us on the program. Let's go back just a little bit. What exactly do we know about the circumstances surrounding Bolsonaro's decision to leave Brazil? We know he is tonight in the U.S., presumably still in Florida. But talk to us a little about what's been happening over the past 24 hours. Well, I think you're, first of all, thank you so much for having me on the show again. It's a great pleasure always to address you and the audience of Friends24. I think your reporting did a very good job in terms of summarizing those facts. You know, Bolsonaro was defeated on Sunday. He gave a statement that same night saying that he would lead the opposition. He questioned the results, but he really played demonstrated an intent to stay in the country and to lead the opposition. But then the next day he was, you know, out. I mean, people were looking for him, trying to put him to talk a little bit about the elections and so on. There was no success in reaching out to him. And then we learned that he had crossed to Argentina and then come to the United States. Now, in this meantime, there was this order issued by the Brazilian Supreme Court just demanding that he gave his passport because there were investigations that were looking into his relationship with somebody who was accused of handling money laundering schemes. there was a dispute about that about whether or not the court was right in doing that but he then said that he wanted to stay and to fight this order to demonstrate that he was innocent anyway he left and he's just published a series of defiant messages on social media talking about being the true leader of Brazil alleging there's been electoral fraud in Sunday's vote talking about a witch hunt this doesn't bode well for what happens next does it Fabio is there a risk this is going to turn you know a domestic political dispute into a much wider international issue i think that's what he's trying to do with that but i don't think he's going to be successful you talked about the two dimensions that we need to be looking at the domestic and international I think domestically he loses a lot because he loses the grip of, you know, the leadership of the opposition. There is a vacuum now that others will seek to occupy. And then internationally, I think that the Trump administration welcomed him. And President Trump gave a statement saying that he was sorry for what happened and that he would authorize Flavio to come into the U.S. But he also said that he didn't take sides in the dispute and that he likes President Lula. So I think at most there's going to be some level of accommodation. I don't think that the U.S. is going to get involved into questioning the results of the presidential election or not recognizing President Lula. There might be, you know, it might take a few days for President Trump to do that. But I think eventually, with all the leaders in the world having recognized Lula and with Trump himself having to go through midterms in the next couple of days, no one knows how that's going to turn out. I think his choice will be to accept the results and to work with President Lula. And in the meantime, Flávio can stay in the U.S. I don't think that's a problem for Lula either. And what options do Brazilian authorities have here if he does decide to remain in the United States? You know, what kind of impact is that going to have on the various investigations that are ongoing and potential future legal proceedings? Well, some of the investigations can still go on. Eduardo Bolsonaro, his brother, came to the United States fleeing the same kinds of... Actually, I mean, he came, you know, and then he started lobbying here in the U.S. for the U.S. to impose sanctions against Brazil. That gave rise to an investigation there for violation of certain laws in Brazil. He was investigated. He was tried. He was convicted. So these proceedings can go on, but they are a matter for the police and for the courts to deal with. And I think in terms of international relations, Brazil and the U.S. will try to find their common ground because that's what is in the interest of President Lula, for sure. And I think of President Trump as well. There are some elements in his administration that like to see this fight going on and want to drag him into them. But I don't think President Trump personally has any stake in into this fight. And what are the implications then for, you know, the judicial institutions within Brazil itself when we see such a high profile figure fleeing the country after being ordered to surrender his passport? Right. There were questions about whether the court was right in doing that and whether it was some sort of vengeance, especially because the justice who issued this order is Alexandre de Moraes, who is, you know, an antagonist of Bolsonaristas. However, I think the facts proved that he was true. He was doing this by request of the federal police. So there was actually a risk of, you know, this escape, right, that justified the measure. And the measure was very mild. Just give us your passports. There was no, you know, ankle monitor or any arrest order or anything like that. But, of course, so there are questions about what the judiciary is doing. But at the same time, I think there's evidence that, you know, it was necessary. Now, Flávio Bolsonaro escaped. Right. And that obviously frustrates, I think, those who expect the judiciary in Brazil to be investigating high crimes and corruption. But I think they still have the means to do it. And do you think authorities were caught off guard by all of this? You know, his departure from Brazil has drawn comparisons with the situation involving his father, former President Jair Bolsonaro. He traveled to the U.S. also after losing the elections back in 2022. This is an interesting question, right? Because, again, the courts had this order and people were questioning, calling it disproportionate and so on. And he eventually fled. But even his people from his party were actually surprised by this. They were not expecting this because, as I said before, Flávio Bolsonaro had made all those strong statements about the election and how he wanted to stay and to lead the opposition. So I think to some extent, yes, they were surprised. And how is all of this playing or likely to play out among supporters of Bolsonaro himself, opposition supporters in Brazil, highly divided society after leading up to the, you know, very, very close fought elections? Does this risk kind of making those divisions even more serious, even more polarizing? My understanding is that this is going to weaken Flávio Bolsonaro's and the Bolsonaros' position in their camp on the right. Like I said, there is no vacuum in politics. Somebody will step in and fill in this gap that he's leaving. There are certainly more radicalized supporters who may buy into this idea that there is a persecution and they may try to, you know, take more aggressive actions against Brazilian institutions as they did in the past. But I think the most likely outcome is that divisions will grow within the right. And it might be the case that the Bolsonaros will be replaced as the, you know, face of the opposition to the Lula administration in Brazil. And again, this is something that will cause noise but right now I see it as only favoring President Lula because it weakens the opposition it fragments the opposition and gives Lula actually the chance to you know try to bring in some parties from the Brazilian center or centro as we call into his administration and Bolsonaro himself describing you know himself as the true elected president of Brazil later changing that, describing himself as the true leader, but at the same time saying that he's going to be running the opposition from Brazil. Are these kind of contradictory positions? What does it suggest to you, this kind of series of rather confusing messages that he's been putting out tonight on social media? What are his actual plans, do you think? I don't know. I think that maybe the failure may have gotten in his head, right? It's very, as you said, contradictory. It's all very, very inconsistent, right? And I don't think that's the kind of leadership that Brazilians want, and even those on the right want Fabio, we'll have to leave it there for now. Thank you so much for being with us on the program, as ever. That is Fabio de Sa Silva, Associate Professor of International Studies at the University of Oklahoma. Well, that is it from us for now. Stay with us, though, for more world news on France 24.