CFB Wainwright fire recalls deadly 1988 training accident at CFB Chilliwack | Hanomansing Tonight

We continue to follow the investigation into the deadly fire that killed four soldiers on Saturday. A fast-moving grass fire ignited during a training exercise at CFB Wainwright. That's about a two-hour drive southeast of Edmonton. 39 people remain in hospital, 19 of whom are in critical condition. For some members of the armed forces and their families, the Wainwright tragedy brings back some difficult memories. A deadly training accident at CFB Chilliwack in British Columbia in June of 1988. Paul Mann was a student on training at the Canadian Forces School of Military Engineering when 27 kilograms of explosives detonated prematurely. Six military engineering students were killed, several more were injured. Powell wasn't on the range when it happened but was scheduled to go later in the day and worked later on at that same engineering school. And Powell joins us from Bedford, Nova Scotia. I covered that story in June of 1988, Paul. So as soon as I heard about what happened in Wainwright, it brought back memories for me about Chilliwack. What was going through your mind when you heard about the tragedy on the weekend? Well, thanks, Ian. You know, before I delve into that answer, I'd like to say first and foremost that my heart goes out to the families of those who are lost, to the injured and everyone affected. And though I'm not a spokesperson for veterans across Canada, I feel confident saying that the entire veteran community offers its deepest condolences. That's an incredibly different, difficult time. Yeah, when I heard the news on Saturday, you know, honestly, my first thought was for the families losing their sons in such a way. And then as you think about the wider aspects, you think for the injured and the soldiers who were there. Having experienced the aftermath of the demolition accident in 1988, I know that impact reaches far beyond those who were directly involved. And I know the wider community in Wainwright as well is also feeling the pain as well as the Canadian public across Canada. Take us back to that day in June of 1988 in Chilliwack. Where were you when the explosion happened and what unfolded after that? Yeah, so the course that I was on was a large course and we were split into two parts. There was a troop or a platoon, as some people would be more familiar with the term, that was on the demolition range. And I was in the bilingual troop and we were doing classroom training to prepare to go the range. We received word that an accident had happened. We didn't really know the details, but we knew that our training was cancelled. And as we, you know, struggled to figure out what happened and try to understand the scope of the accident, you could see that the shock and disbelief started to pervade the group. And quickly, you sort yourself out. You know, you don't want to be one of the people who has to be supported. So you learn how to adapt with the shock and move into a role where you can support others. But six people were killed and others were injured, some of them really badly injured. And I assume no matter how many warnings you get on base, because these are people learning how to use explosives. So no matter how many warnings you get on base, I assume nothing prepared you for the shock of learning that some of your colleagues had been killed. No, I think that's the very nature of training as we go through learning, learning what we want to do. You expect that whenever training happens to come home, you prepare for the dangers. You know that the military is a dangerous business, but training is supposed to prepare you for those dangers. So the shock of going through someone who's actually been injured or killed on training is unexpected. But professionals are professionals. You understand that you must carry on with either the mission or taking care of those that need assistance. so one of the great aspects of the military is that you you do carry on uh you do deal with the immediate aftermath of what needs to be done and you do find that later when your requirement to act stops that's when it sinks in a little bit more and you start thinking about and trying to process what you went through all right well don't go too far away because we're going to take a break And when we come back, I want to ask you about the investigation that followed, because I think that there may be some lessons there for the process that may be underway in Wainwright, how how good that investigation was and and what came out of that. So, pal, thank you very much for speaking with us. And we'll continue our conversation right after this. As we were discussing before the break, Saturday's tragedy at CFB Wainwright is bringing back for some memories of a deadly incident in 1988 at CFB Chilliwack in British Columbia. Well, I definitely want to know the answer. There's no question about that. And I want to know if people have did their job properly. 27 kilograms of explosives detonated prematurely at the Canadian Forces School of Military Engineering. Six military engineering students were killed and several others were injured pal man was supposed to take part in an exercise there later in the day he later became the commandant of the same engineering school and pal let's continue the conversation we were having before the break um what went wrong that day that led to the deadly explosion there were a number of factors that went wrong the investigation as you know much like the investigation that will happen now it needs to establish what happened why it happened and whether anything needs to change. There's a number of factors that need to be considered, not only the actions of those that were in the vicinity of the accident itself, but there's a whole series of things that have to be looked at. Was the nature of the explosives of good quality? Supply chain issues? Was it stored properly? Was doctrine and tactics followed when the uh when the training was done so uh to collect this information it takes time to talk to the number of people who are involved and as you can imagine in any incident everyone has a slightly different perspective and everyone's truth is slightly different based on what they've observed and what they've felt or what they were told so to collect all that information and to distill it into something that's tangible that is reflective of the most probable uh chain of events that occurred you need to look at that and while you also have to deal with what the immediate events were there you have to delve deeper and go into layers to find out what were the what were the root causes uh what was it that could have contributed to the accident and then you have to analyze and see if those things need to be adjusted changed updated modernized to prevent the possibility of such an activity happening again these engineering students these young soldiers were making craters on a road as they would in a combat zone so they were tamping down explosives into a hole i guess in a tube using a metal device to tamp them down and and i think one of the the problems was that metal that they were using to to do that i mean creating craters in a road in in a conflict zone is inherently dangerous but were lessons learned from the tragedy that made it less dangerous in the future you can never get rid of risk completely and everyone who's in the military knows that our job is to mitigate risk as best as possible. I think in the instance in 1988, there were a couple of decisions that were made that contributed to the accident. As you mentioned, it was a metal tamping rod that was used to tamp down the explosives in the chamber, the hole that would eventually be expanded. It should have been a wood rod, but the supply chain delivered something that was ordered and a NATO stock number or a stock number that was used may have delivered the wrong piece of equipment. Or they may have used that piece of equipment successfully in the past and so no one thought to question it. But it was definitely one of the things in the aftermath they examined that found that it contributed to the premature detonation. We have just 30 seconds, but let me ask you this. Based on your experience at CFB Chilliwack, are you confident that the investigation into incidents like this are done independently and properly? The military has a great protocol to do these investigations and they bring in people who are outside the event and ask the questions. I have full confidence in the chain of command to ask the questions, to collect the information and analyze that information and to determine what the root causes were and to adjust doctrine and training if needed in order to prevent instances like this from happening again. Palman was a student on training at the Canadian Forces School of Military Engineering at CFB Chilliwack in 1988 and later became commandant of that same engineering school. Thank you very much for speaking with us. Thank you, and have a good night.