'Quite horrifying': Afghan economic crisis leaves EU deportees with 'very little' to return to

The EU says it does not recognise the Taliban regime that rules Afghanistan, and yet EU leaders from a number of member states are in direct negotiations with them. EU countries all shut their embassies in the capital Kabul after the Taliban retook control in 2021 and imposed their strict interpretation of Islamic law. Among other things, they're forcing women to be almost entirely covered when they leave their homes. They've banned them from a host of public spaces, including parks, gyms and schools, after the age of 12. And yet the EU has opened the door to dialogue. Last June, it welcomed Taliban leaders to EU headquarters in Brussels and a majority of EU nations are holding bilaterals with them, including here in France. Well, European officials insist it's not recognition of the regime, but technical talks aimed at speeding up the deportation of failed Afghan asylum seekers, people who they say have committed crimes. Well, to get more insight on it all, we can speak now to Pakistan and Afghanistan Bureau Chief for The New York Times, Ilan Peltier. Ilan, you've recently published your investigation into this story. I mean, it made the headlines back in June when we saw those members of the Taliban welcomed to the European Commission, in fact, in Brussels. But a lot has happened since. It sounds like lots of bilaterals, notably in Germany. What exactly is going on? So the talks have been continuing since this first meeting in June when five Taliban officials visited Brussels for a meeting with about 20 European delegates from more than 15 European countries. There was a bit of a lull over the summer, but talks have now resumed, primarily with France, which has agreed on principle to deport Afghans back to Afghanistan in partnership with the Taliban, even though the details are yet to be finalised. I mean, are there Taliban members then regularly visiting European states? Do they have a presence on the continent? Yeah, it goes both ways. So Germany, which has been leading the effort here, has welcomed Taliban officials in the country. You have consular officers appointed by the Taliban government in Bonn, in Berlin, and so far more than 260 Afghan men have been repatriated from Germany to Afghanistan in partnership with the Taliban administration. But what our investigation shows as well is that even though on paper European governments do not recognize the Taliban administration, in practice they meet much more frequently than most of us know. They meet in Kabul, where the European Union still has delegation and representation open, even though the embassies of member states are closed. They meet in Doha, they meet in Istanbul. And so in June, for the first time, they met on EU soil in Brussels. It does sound like de facto recognition, you know, the Taliban gaining from this international interaction. Is there anything else the Taliban are gaining from this? I mean, any money been exchanged? Any other details you can bring us? So there's the symbolism. First of all, a Taliban official told me that this meeting in Brussels was like putting a step in the door for them and that they would expect more from them. And what we also revealed in our investigation is that during this meeting in June, the Taliban made two requests. The first one is to have access to more embassies. They don't have the keys to the actual embassies of Afghanistan in so many of those European countries. in most of them. And the second one is economic assistance. For now, European governments are limiting the assistance to Afghanistan to the Afghan people, mostly through humanitarian aid and emergency funding. But they're not supporting the Afghan institutions, they're not supporting the Afghan government, which is of course controlled by the Taliban. And so back in June, and increasingly now, the Taliban government has been asking for economic assistance to its own government, which for most of the EU countries would be a red line. Anything about the people being sent back, Eliane? You know, do we know anything about what happens to them, the conditions under which they are returned? So most of them have been criminals, meaning they've been convicted of crimes in mostly Germany. But the conditions they're returning to are extremely dire. I travel to Afghanistan every six to eight weeks and the economic situation is is quite preoccupying there um you on top of that have millions of other Afghans who have been expelled from Pakistan and Iran and the Taliban administration is extremely cash strapped so they're coming back to a country that has very little to offer in terms of employment and other opportunities which is exactly what the Taliban administration has been arguing or mentioning to EU countries. In substance, if I had to paraphrase what the Taliban officials have said to European officials is, you're asking us to take back some Afghans, but if the economic conditions are not there in our country, those Afghans will just leave again and try to come back to Europe. So help us address the economic challenges that we face so we can welcome back more Afghans. Thank you so much for bringing us more insight on that investigation you carried out for the New York Times into the EU's negotiations with the Afghan Taliban.