'Civilian blood is on their hands' | Ukraine's access to Starlink is restricted

The latest development, given what's happened this week, there have been so many developments this week, including that diesel deal between Donald Trump and President Putin. Now we hear that speed restrictions on the vital Starlink communications network has disrupted Ukraine's battlefield missions. Some of those missions in mid-flight or in mid-operation or about to begin. And then the key Starlink communications network they needed in order to do it either stopped or slowed down. This is Elon Musk's Starlink communications network. And we know that previously, at the very beginning of the war, he offered that in support. He gave coverage from Starlink in support of Ukraine. But this is a change of tone, isn't it? And there's been a change of tone this week anyway from President Trump as well. So where does all this leave Ukraine and what's the role that we in Britain can play in this? I thought it was interesting, Andy Burnham saying very loud, loud and clear in Parliament just then, President Zelensky will not go home empty handed. We'll find out later what he's alluding to there. Sergeant Ashton Karillo joins me, a sergeant in the Ukrainian Defence Forces who joins us from Kramatorsk on the Eastern Front, which I know has seen some extremely intense action and fighting over the years. Thank you for joining me. um what what do you say Britain can do right now for Ukraine to have London backing us is a great first start the second part is even more important that quote we will not be left empty-handed uh after the prime minister's discussions with the supreme commander-in-chief President Zelensky and so all of the tools that we can put into our toolbox that are both internally created but also from our allies and partners will bring us closer to victory despite what's going on in the news. What's your interpretation of the Starlink communications slowdown? Well, we hear lots of, as I called it, rumors, but this in fact is not a rumor. And there were two different parts to it. You had the first reports of the mid-flight issues as some of the units were going on, quote, mission. The second issue is even graver. And that's the part where we're seeing the speed and it's being reported to our frontline rank and file soldiers and officers, we're seeing the speeds of our interceptors being slowed down as well, where it's even slower than the 160 miles per hour that was initially reported. And what that does is take away, you know, lots of discussion over Patriot missiles, lots of discussion over air defense. We've created amazing homegrown interceptors that rely on Starlink, and even those speeds have been slowed down. So not only is the offensive uh weaponry being taken away but in fact our defensive weapons that keeps civilians safe when we're in Kramatorsk when we're in Slovyansk when we're in Kharkiv Zaporizhzhia even the civilians are the ones that are being protected by these interceptors and so whoever's making this decision to cut the speed has the blood of civilians on their hands i mean you mentioned Kiev and those cities to the to the north and and east the northeast and east we've even seen attacks way over to the west once or twice haven't we that recent one on the train on the same route around the same time as the diplomatic train and there was a horrific attack that in any other city in the world would have been front page news a university was attacked in an evening which is far west of kiev uh nearly uh just a few hours from a bit from the border and 25 or 30 university students and employees were injured. Several died on a broad scale attack in daylight by the Russians against the university. It was not a military university. These were college kids. You say in any other city it would have been front page news. Do I detect there a frustration at the attention this war is getting or is not always getting? I would say it's less about the attention because we understand that every nation has their own challenges. What I would say is that this wanton violence has become normalized. And this violence and this terrorism has become normalized. The United States in 2001 called on the world to support them after a horrific terror attack where more than every step up. And now seeing daily terrorism that far exceeds the number of 3000. It's not a comparison. It's just that the world should never become blind to this sort of evil and terror. We're not talking military here. Yeah, yeah. So we can see easily from here that civilians are being killed in this for sure. And not to mention that the horrible military loss of life on the eastern border, definitely. You know, people here do know, people here in the UK do know, and I know you know, that the UK is full square behind Ukraine. And its most recent offering, if you can call it that, on that, was a commitment to give missile design plans and information to allow Ukraine to build some of its own missile equipment. Do you want that to be front and centre of the offer from Andy Burnham today with President Zelensky, something that can really materially strengthen Ukraine's military operation? What's important to look at is something that President Zelensky has talked about over and over. Give us the tools and the weapons. Give us the fish and teach us how to fish. And so the best security guarantees that we can have as an army, as a military and as a nation is to be able to have the tools to protect ourselves because the Russians are not going to stop. They're not going to stop this war until we defeat them, and they will continue to push against others. And so to get these designs are very important, because what it means is that we have to protect the skies ourselves. We've shown great ingenuity and technical know-how in creating things from scratch, so the ability to have these plans are absolutely vital. and we want to show that our partners are not just throwing money away in their own defense. This is a way of showing that the UK is investing in the defense of Europe and the Western world. And what will defeating Russia look like? I mean, I know war is a difficult thing to draw a line about, but you said there that Russia will not stop until they're defeated. How do you see Russia defeated? I think it's a multi-step process. There's lots of discussion over the Russian economy. There's lots of discussion over Putin staying or going. But the way I look at it is sunrise to sunrise. So the first step is Putin made the Donbass supposedly the key to him taking this Russian-speaking Russkiy Mir brotherhood back. And for those who are listening, the Donbass consists of the very vital areas of Luhansk and Donetsk Oblast, where so much of our industry is located, where I am right now. First step is to understand that we basically not just stopped their advance, but reversed it in these areas. They've been trying to take the city of Kostyantynivka for more than a year. I've been here for 11 months in this area of operation. We've stopped them from taking Kostyantynivka. There's zero chance they will take Kramatorsk, zero chance they will take Slovyansk. And what this will do is, yes, he's going to bomb these cities to a horrific level. However, what it will do is show the world that Putin is having to change his own goal lines and his own rules every time because he will not get these. And so I think that's the first step, is to show the world we can defend our city, we can stop this advance, which we have, reverse it, and then we can ask the next questions of what victory looks like. But in the short term, our victory is that we will never lose the Donbass. OK, thank you very much indeed, Sergeant Ashton Carrillo, Sergeant in the Ukrainian Defence Forces, speaking to us there from that all-important Eastern Front, ahead of the meeting that takes place between Andy Burnham and President Zelensky. John says, given President Trump's stance on NATO, punitive tariffs impacting UK inflation, buying diesel from Russia, Elon Musk's Starlink retardation that we talked about just a moment ago, we must now accept that the US is at war with Europe and has allied in an axis of evil with the Russian Federation. That's from John in Newton-le-Willows. Well, I know this is something I've already spoken about. I know James was talking about it this morning as well, to great effect. I mean, on some levels it does look that way. And yet you can't get away from the fact that America is still materially in its role in NATO, its leading role in NATO, giving a great deal of support to this war in Ukraine. But equally, you can't get away from those shocking scenes in the Oval Office, what, a year or so ago. and some of the decisions we've seen some of the rhetoric we've seen recently as well and just before we hear from Alec in Manchester just a reminder and again we can't forget the poor Russian soldiers being killed in all of this either this these are young men and some women but mainly men being sent to to their deaths I was reading something the other day about the the the life expectancy of a soldier that arrives on on the eastern front in russia is about 15 minutes once they get there i mean which is pure some territory isn't it it's just appalling on both sides it really is for the individual soldiers involved um but on tuesday um so overnight essentially russia launched 39 ballistic and cruise missiles and 128 drones four of them and 115 drones were shot down according to Ukraine's air force again which points to what my guest was saying about the need for those defensive um that defensive equipment I wonder whether that's what we'll see more of today I think we just need to lock in long-term funding so the next two three years if we can fund Ukraine right now things don't look great especially with Donald Trump completely aligning with Putin I think up to this point he's wanted to but I think he kind of just thinks he's got nothing to lose at this point i think that's the only thing that's held him back completely i mean if it was complete he'd have cancelled all the military support that that he's that america is giving and he hasn't done well no because he's using his leverage to get what he wants which is the only lifeline Putin has got which is oil money and gas money and with a trump stare that yeah minerals it'll still he'll still have that because europe still buys it the rest of the world still buys india but they cannot make as much money as they need and if we lock in long-term funding and help them as much as we can we can go beyond just money we can you know give them designs to rocket motors anything we can do to help they only need to hold out i do not believe that putin will be in power for the next fight he cannot keep up a failing war that's cost so many russian lives and hopefully one day we can trade with a Russia on a peaceful level and be you know like rebuild rebuild that relationship yeah we can rebuild that relationship and have a peaceful Russia and we'll have a peaceful Europe but it's going to take time and perseverance and we just Ukrainians are doing the hard work and it's costing lives if we stand by Ukraine and let them fight for as long as they they can they want to i think they will pull through I've always thought that and I'm more confident now than ever before it's interesting that you say you know make a make a two-year commitment it feels to me like we've made a as long as it takes commitment to Ukraine time and again Keir Starmer did I think Andy Burnham did straight off when he became prime minister but you when you say really commit you want to see the hard stuff on paper it's going to be this method this much missile technology information this much support to build them this much air defense system this much expertise on the ground that we can share with you you want it you want it that explicit frankly i want the money in an account that will be handed over automatically it's outside of government control just sat there obviously if the government takes control like say we have an election another government it needs to be in government control we don't just want to be giving no but what i mean is i'd like it i'd like it in a sovereign account where essentially they can it's just automatically passed over unless a different decision is made so it's they know the money is there and that money is waiting and it will go so and whether it's 10 billion for this year 10 billion for next year like i don't want it to just be oh 30 billion up front because then it shows Putin that we are not just sticking by Ukraine for as long as it takes the money's already there like he's got to he's got to then fund his own army to a higher level over so so much longer period does that make sense it does make sense and and europe's forget you know just it's not just britain here europe's combined support for ukraine is massive it's you know it's more than substantial it's massive now obviously america is the biggest player in nato the massive military and all of that is a is still a huge factor but it was interesting to hear the other day wasn't it on this show i don't know if you heard General Sir Richard Sharif the former deputy commander of the military in NATO, saying we should not forget America, you know, take whatever they can still offer and wish to offer. But we as a nation and as a group of countries, Europe and our Western allies, as he put it, needs to get much more aggressive with Russia. Now that on paper makes sense to me, but does it make sense to you, given what we heard yesterday from MI5? Absolutely. Frankly, I think why Putin thinks he can get away with this stuff is he flicks her ears every two seconds. He never quite punches her in the face. Well, because he did for about six years, didn't he, before anybody piped up? Oh, exactly. So the harder response we give, and this is why Churchill was right in World War II, the harder response, the more you stand up, it's this pussyfooting around where we send letters and we say, oh, if Russia does this, then we may respond in time. Like, actually respond, actually do that. MI5 honestly needs to, sorry, MI6 needs to be doing operations in Russia, performing cyber attacks, helping Ukrainians. Well, we don't know that they're not. Possibly, but frankly, I think this is part of the problem. We're too, we don't inform the public enough. I think this is one good thing about Andy. No, Alec, you don't inform the public openly and transparently about MI6 operations inside Russia. No, you don't have to do specific operations. But once those operations are complete, you turn around and say, we have done this. We are not standing by and letting Putin do whatever he wants. When he commits a poisoning on British streets, killing a police officer, we don't need to be giving sanctions. We need to be honestly targeting those generals that did perform those attacks and either arresting them if we can or, frankly, doing the same back. OK, so you so you you're full square behind General Sir Richard Shirreff there. I was thinking this morning, actually, because I knew we were going to discuss this, thinking of that day and the day that followed the day in the Oval Office when J.D. Vance and President Trump turned publicly and it was an attempt to humiliate President Zelensky and depending on you know whose eyes were looking at it i'm sure some people thought he was humiliated but i don't think he was humiliated i think he sat strongly and spoke for his country in the face of two extremely powerful bullies in that moment um and then remember the next day when Keir Starmer didn't just meet Zelensky on the doorstep of Downing Street. He walked in the direction of the gates of Downing, the security gates of Downing Street to greet President Zelensky and then gave him a warm hug and then did the photo at the door, the official photo at the door. And I thought that was brilliant of Keir Starmer. It was a brilliant way to say, let me show you how full square behind you we are after that nonsense. And then he was, after that, he had lunch with the king or tea with the king, with King Charles. And that was important as well. And I know they are just symbolic moments of support and standing with someone. But I think they matter, not quite as much as the military stuff, but they do matter. They matter particularly with this president, with President Trump, because here's what I think. I think General Sir Richard Shirreff is right. I mean, I'm no military expert, no defense expert anymore than Kemi Badenoch is. But he is. He is. He's a man who hasn't just fought in wars, but he's a man who studied war, led people in war and advised NATO, led, been a leader, a leading figure in NATO. So he does know what he's talking about. And I think he's right to say that the way we squeeze Russia is for the UK, the EU and any other Western allies who are supporting Ukraine along with us, really flex those muscles both to demonstrate to America that we're not going to follow suit and get weak and watery towards Ukraine. And I wonder whether that will just about, just about keep the Trump, well, the American show on the road in relation to Ukraine, because it very much is still on the road. Just because Donald Trump says crazy things and starts to look like he's Putin's best friend. And by the way, these are important things and these are damaging things for Ukraine. It doesn't mean the whole structure of American support for Ukraine has collapsed. It hasn't, thankfully. And I do think that if we in the UK, so Andy Burnham today in that meeting and in what he says after that meeting, and all of the European allies, there are other Western allies as well, stand completely firm and show in the way that Keir Starmer and the King showed the day after that Oval Office incident, show that they are going nowhere in the face of this Russian aggression. I think that might just about be the sticking plaster, if that's the right terminology, over Trump's what appears to be treachery. I mean, that's the word that General Sir Richard Shirreff used. You know, I do think that that's for me, for my money, that's the most important thing the UK and the EU and our Western allies, aside from america can do is really stand firm because if we wobble trump will carry on doing his crazy stuff but if we don't wobble there's just a chance if we stand incredibly firm both in a diplomatic sense in a in the the words we say but also in the actual material support that we give i think there's there's a chance that that will in a sense force america's hand force trump's hand to continue on this path um he plays all kinds of silly games that i can't quite make sense of but i think that's what we should do stand firm on every front from tea with the king to missile plans and to a full-on commitment to never abandon them if i may go over it slightly i listened to a four-star american nato general speaking in poland um and saying all the wonderful things that he should say about america backing the nato and if russia attacked any one of the nations they would do this and do that and do everything in their power to make sure that they were repulsed um however he um he could be sacked tomorrow and i wouldn't be surprised if he's not sacked fairly soon. for saying it Well, exactly, because he said the opposite, more or less, to what Trump was saying yesterday Well, Trump hasn't said, let's leave them to it and pull out all support, has he? He hasn't gone that far. well, he hasn't said, but the fact is they have I mean, they don't supply any arms to them anymore unless they're through Europe, which are paid for by Europe. And he's definitely withdrawn the support of the Starlink system and how long that might be we don't quite know what's happened there yet, do we? but it looks fishy, doesn't it? i think it's fishy. i mean, it looks like a duck and all that for too long, america, including you. sorry, europe including the UK, have treated Trump like a bit of a joke. and you know oh isn't he funny he makes silly stupid remarks unfortunately that's not him he's a despot and he will he will do whatever he wants to he likes putin he doesn't just like him he admires him and he wants to be him he wants to be he wants to take over the whole of the American continent and he wants that to be his end he wants russia he's quite happy with russia to rule europe, and, you know, that's the way he's thinking that's the way he wants it He'd like to take over Canada. That would be his area. He'd take over South America. And the next thing he's going to do is to attack Cuba. That will be after midterms. He mentioned Cuba at the UN, didn't he? Yes. I think also that there's the problem with the midterms is we can all wait for the midterms, I mean Europe now should be saying no, we're not taking this from you anymore, we're not interested in what you're doing, we're not going to accept what you say anymore because when the midterms come, it's quite likely if he loses, that he will then try to stop that election taking place call a state of emergency so it's all gone wrong well interestingly alright we'll see we'll see I don't know whether it will happen but one of his I'll have to go back and check after the programme I'll have to check which person it was but a senior figure close to him said very blithely in a you know in a kind of ordinary back and forth conversation not in a row or anything like that said well well the president won't be here by that date meaning meaning in office the president won't be here by that date so it's a it's a moot point kind of thing so there was almost like a sort of passing incidental acceptance that he's got two years left which i was pleased to hear this person say was it rubio was it marco rubio i can't remember who it was but it was somebody very close to him he wants he wants to become president himself no i know i know but at least it was a But it was a reference to him leaving. Yeah, I think that's... I'm going to have to double-check when I finish the show who it was. I think it was Rubio But that just muddies the water. It's just smoke and mirrors. Trump won't go if he can help it. And he'll try everything just to stay in power and exceed his power. let's hope that the constitution is strong enough to withstand anything like that i i really hope so i really do because i think it's it's it's so frightening now well because the founding fathers did they foresaw the possibility of of a dictator didn't they and and tried to stave it off with with the levers of their constitution yes they have but so there are ways of getting around that constitution and and if if he gets the backing if it if for god's sake that he gets the backing of of the republicans um then he could pull it off and and when it comes to what we should be doing with ukraine do you think it's now time for the i mentioned earlier that my sense is that we just need to we being the uk the eu other western uh supporters fully wrap around ukraine at this point absolutely they've got they've got to forget trump now and just pull together to try and do something Whether they can or not is another question, it's going to be interesting to hear what Andy Burnham offers today, isn't it and what they, what both leaders say afterwards, um hopefully that will be in our time but we'll certainly bring it to you here on LBC, thanks Keith, Richard in Stafford, hello Richard, hello Sheila, um I can only agree with what you and the previous gentleman have said about um Ukraine, Zelensky and Trump, Trump is a treacherous bully with no scruples and I, I would be very surprised if anybody had said anything different and you have to be very direct with bullies, I mean I thought the Iran set a good example, they stood up to him and now Trump is backpedaling as quick as he can and probably wishes he'd never done what he did in the first place, so I, I thought Burnham was a little weak with his words this morning, I think yeah, I think um he should give Zelensky as much practical help as he feels he can and be seen to be doing it and I think he wasn't gonna, he probably wasn't gonna pre, pre-announce anything in PM news, was it No, no, no, no, no, no. But I think I got, my takeaway was that he was a bit mealymouthed, but it's his actions afterwards that will count And I think he should give as much practical help to Zelensky as he feels he can and be seen to be doing it And I think what you just said about rallying around Europe to inspire his fellow European leaders to come up with a joint line, and then he should get on the telephone to Trump to find out exactly what he's doing. Even Trump's words can't be trusted, I suppose but at least he should make the point difficult situation isn't it, to say the least when you've got a leader like that if you can call him a leader these days thank you if he demonstrates that he's he's he's standing up for the ukrainians uh um at least others will recognize that and support burnham well i hope so i mean europe seems pretty united on this doesn't it i'm a bit suspicious about the germans in that they're importing Russian gas. Sorry, I shouldn't laugh, that just sounds quite... I know, I know. What was his name, Stan Boardman? I know, I know, but they're importing a serious amount of Russian gas. That doesn't show much support for the Ukrainians. Yeah, yeah, and all the while criticising Donald Trump's diesel deal. Thank you very much, Richard, Richard in Stafford.