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‘This is a Battle Royal being played out.’
Former Editor of the Sun Kelvin MacKenzie reacts to claims that Earl Spencer has thrown at King Charles.
The program explores the controversy surrounding Earl Spencer's claims that King Charles reacted with joy to Princess Diana's death. The panel discusses the dysfunction of the British monarchy, the lasting trauma inflicted on Princes William and Harry, and the need for systemic reform to move toward a smaller, more normalized royal structure. It also includes a promotion for Tally Money's gold accounts.
The fact that Princess Diana's brother has written a book, one song to be precise, about
his sister.
It's been serialised actually in one of the papers, the Daily Mail, and there's all kinds
of things that are coming out of this.
Allegations that apparently Charles was, I quote, giddily elated on the night that Diana
died.
He sounded, I quote, like a lottery winner.
So much stuff has been alleged off this book.
Well, first of all, there's no love lost between Spencer and Charles.
You know, there are only two people in on that conversation.
One has now written a book and the other one has said it's not true.
To be honest with you, you can kind of, if you had had a bloody awful marriage
and you wanted to be with somebody else
and that person, the ex-wife, you did not feel warm towards, but you were now free to
marry somebody else, you might think this was a fairly accurate reflection of somebody
who had just heard their ex-wife had died.
So I don't know about it.
You can understand it from both sides.
Neither side like each other.
The one thing that I didn't, the line that I saw in the book which startled me was that
Charles said to Diana on the eve of the wedding, said, I'm prepared to marry you, but I just
want you to know that I don't love you.
I'm not in love with you.
At that, you would have thought that she would have said, well, in that case, you can shove
it, you know, and just walked out.
Now, of course, she was a young woman.
She was trapped by the establishment.
She was just about to become effectively at one stage, if they'd stayed together, the
Queen of England.
So it was difficult for her.
But on hearing that, is it any wonder that she went and had other romances and that he,
because he basically then admitted that he was having a relationship with somebody else?
I mean, these are stunning pieces of history.
And I trust that they're true.
This country, remember, was divided, wasn't it?
You were either on the Charles side or you were on the Diana side during the battle.
And now I think if this stuff had come out at the time, the atmosphere towards Diana
would have been a lot more friendly than it was.
I was the editor of a disgusting paper at the time.
I did my best to reign it back, I must say.
But and at the time, it was literally what the battle between them was making the front
pages every day.
And there was a tremendous appetite and there will be a tremendous appetite for this book.
This is modern history of a family which is still divided.
And the other thing that I find difficult to believe is that is that Spencer did not
when they were with Prince Harry the other day, did not say to Harry, I've got the goods
on this.
I'm going to publish a dramatic book about it.
This is a battle royal being played out in a book which none of us, if we had our own
in our own lives, had it played out, would we enjoy, I suspect.
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Aaron, what's your thoughts?
Well, reading through this article, it's certainly going to feed the conspiracy theories,
because, of course, they've been around for 30 years since this event happened.
Charles Spencer says that initially he was called by somebody effectively within the
palace, or the wife of somebody within the palace, saying that initially Diana had just
broken a leg.
But then, of course, it turned out to be much worse than that.
Everything that we hear and read and see in regards to King Charles, and in particular
this marriage, shows him to be a pretty awful human being.
Now, he may be a very nice father.
He's certainly a very well-dressed man.
I agree with him on climate issues.
But in terms of being a husband, being a partner to his wife, he seems about as bad as it gets.
And what Kelvin was saying about if you've got a dysfunctional marriage and you can leave
that behind and move on, there's some truth to that, of course.
But this was also the mother of his two children, and they were very young.
And I could say hand on heart, even if my wife and I parted ways, I would happily sacrifice
my life to save hers for our children, because ultimately they need their mother.
So I just find it quite extraordinary if that's the case.
You know, he was in any way gleeful that his two boys had lost their mum because it allowed
him to marry another woman.
I mean, that really, to me, is about as low as it gets.
I just feel so sorry for William and Harry, because people just seem so desperate to make
money off the back of their mum.
Why is he dragging all this up again?
And he says, oh, you know...
He doesn't need the money.
But he's saying, oh, there's been so many mistruths that have been spoken, and I want
to correct the record.
And so is he writing this book for free and donating the profits somewhere then?
Well, he might well be.
He does not need the money.
I mean, he lives, he's got a huge estate up in Northamptonshire, and he will be doing
this to poke one in the eye to Charles.
Yeah.
That's for certain.
And when you read about the battle, you see, he didn't want, I don't even remember, but
anyway, he didn't want those kids to walk behind the hearse.
And I must say, I found that disturbing when I watched it.
I think many of us will never forget that image, actually, of those children behind
their mummy's coffin, absolutely etched onto the memories of most people in this country.
Let's cross to our royal correspondent, Cameron Walker.
Hello, Cameron.
You are at the Invictus Games, are you not?
Well, I am, Michelle, yeah.
And of course, we're expecting Prince Harry to arrive imminently, actually.
This will be the first time we have seen him, not only in public in the UK, since he arrives
back in Britain on a more permanent basis, but also since those very damaging allegations
from his uncle, Earl Spencer, against his father, the King.
And pretty uncomfortable, of course, because there's some very serious allegations.
And of course, tonight, we're hearing, according to Earl Spencer, that the King
sounded giddily elated like a lottery winner when he found out that Diana
had been killed in that car crash.
And of course, the whole book is being serialised in the Daily Mail,
a newspaper we know that Prince Harry despises.
He lost a High Court case around a month ago over alleged unlawful information
gathering against Associated Newspapers, the publisher of the Daily Mail,
in which he may well have to pay back millions of pounds to them.
So I think the choice of newspaper for his uncle is certainly going to not
particularly sit comfortably with Prince Harry.
But again, also the timing of it is not going to be great either,
because Harry will want the focus to be on the Invictus Games,
just like the King wanted this day to be the focus on his AI summit
at Dumfries House.
And just like Prince William wants the focus to be on the engagements
he was doing in the aisle on Buttes.
I'm looking behind my shoulder in case he suddenly appears, Michelle.
But that, of course, is the problem.
The whole thing's being overshadowed by regurgitated allegations,
which took place 30 years ago.
That's interesting stuff.
And I don't want to be responsible for you missing the grand entrance.
So I shall bid you farewell, let you spin around,
focus on the arrivals.
And I'll probably pop back to you at some point throughout the programme.
But for now, thank you, Cameron Walker.
That's a very good point that he made, actually,
there about the Daily Mail and about, I mean,
because this will be a double whammy to Prince Harry,
because he despises that newspaper.
Yes, I should imagine he's torn, actually.
He's torn between the fact that he hates the Daily Mail
and B, that, in fact, it's a good vehicle for a book.
And people will be reading this in the millions
over the next three or four days.
The question is, why did he feel he had to write this?
I take your royal guy's point that it is 30 years ago.
But the reason it has to be written
is because it shows a completely different side
to the way that it was reported at the time.
The battle between Spencer saying
those kids should not walk behind the hearse
and Charles saying, look,
I walk behind the hearse from Mountbatten
and then Spencer pushing and Spencer then pushing back
and saying, actually, you were 30 at the time.
The point that was made there was that they were simply kids.
He was 30.
Was it right?
Are we allowed, actually,
can you get the clips of that walking behind the hearse
or is that now restricted?
I'm not sure.
I think people have to see that today.
30 years later, you could have literally been 10 years
and now you're 40.
You've got kids of your own.
Then you'll be able to see because there was a silence.
Do you remember that silence as they walked?
One of my viewers, actually, Simon in London,
he's got in touch and he said,
Michelle, when I was 12 years old,
you do tell me your age, Simon,
but I won't be so polite as to reveal it.
He said, when I was 12 years old,
a very close relative of mine died.
I was excluded from any discussion and from the funeral.
He said, I have always resented that decision by my family
because I look back on the day of Diana's funeral
and I believe it was right, basically, what he's saying.
The son's been there and he's saying
the sons should appreciate being allowed such a prominent role
because obviously Simon is still very hurt
by being denied that role as a child.
Right. Well, they didn't.
So anyway, the battle takes place.
The battle takes place and Charles,
remember, Spencer was the guardian of those two,
was made guardian by Diana,
presumably as a kind of V sign to her, to Charles, right?
But Charles overruled this.
And so none of us knew that there was this battle royal going on
behind the scenes.
Personally, I'd really like your viewers to see
if they can gain access to that clip
because anybody who watches that clip
in relation to the fight that was going on
between Ulthorpe and Buckingham Palace,
or sorry, St James's Palace,
will look upon those kids walking there
realising that they were being used in a family battle.
What I thought was interesting, actually,
is as part of this book, it claims that Charles said,
and I quote,
rest assured, we'll forget her soon enough.
And this was apparently during the argument
of whether or not those two boys
should be walking behind that coffin.
But what I thought was interesting
is that Buckingham Palace issued a statement, essentially,
responding to that claim.
And what they said was, and I quote,
the pain of fraternal grief can cloud reason,
affect judgment and colour memory.
I find that really interesting
because they're basically saying,
or I'm interpreting as what they're saying
is there's a way with the fairies,
is basically remembering it wrong.
They're saying it can affect your judgment
and all the rest of it
in ways that others do not recognise
even many years after such a loss.
Yeah, I don't buy it personally.
And like I say, you can fall out with your other half,
you can get divorced, you can be separated.
But I just think that the disrespect
to the mother of your own children
on this kind of level is quite extraordinary.
It's very unusual, right?
16 million people in this country,
there are millions of people
who've been through something like that.
It is really unusual.
And in response to that point
about why are we talking about this 30 years later,
the chap is the head of state, he is the king.
It's not like we're talking about people who've passed away.
He is the king.
And the boys that we're talking about
who were put through something, I agree with Kelvin,
that should never have happened.
One of them will be his heir.
William will be a future king.
And I think it really points to
the dysfunction of the institution of monarchy.
And we often talk about,
well, it means this in terms of land and political reform.
And if you want an act of parliament,
it has to be signed by the king.
We never actually talk about what it does to the people inside,
or we rarely do anyway.
And they're victims of this as well.
That might sound rather ridiculous,
given that they live lives of luxury and comfort,
but they are victims of it as well.
And that's one of the reasons why, at the very least,
I think we should have a slimmed-down monarchy,
a slightly more normal monarchy,
like the Norwegians or the Dutch.
I think this combination of mega-celebrity culture
with the political role that our royal family has,
is too much for these people.
It destroys them.
And it's not because they're weak people.
It would destroy anybody.
OK, well, let's look at it another way.
But in fact, supposing he led a very twisted childhood
and very odd romantic situation, marriage situation.
He's now with somebody else,
the person that he probably should have married in the first place,
but she was with somebody else anyway.
And now he seems to be a completely different person.
You can change.
And I wonder if the same situation happened today,
whether he would react in the same way.
And in fact, the answer to that,
to answer my own question, is I certainly wouldn't.
Steve says, oh, please, what a gullible man Kelvin is.