How To Find Suspension Noises 101 - EricTheCarGuy

Hi kids, Eric the Car Guy here. Today we have a 2005 Acura TL. I know, Eric with another Honda, but the principles in this video apply to many, many vehicles and situations because this vehicle has what the owner believes to be a suspension noise, and I've had a lot of requests from you about, you know, I've got a noise, that kind of thing. Well, this will help you nail down a suspension noise, and that's the purpose of this video. So the first thing we do, if it's a customer's car, of course, if it's your car, you already know when the noise happens, but you need to get in the car and you need to take it for a drive and see if you can reproduce the noise. So we're going to drive around and see if we can hear the noise. All right, one of the first things you want to do is try to identify the type of noise. Is it a knocking noise? Is it a squeaking noise? Is it a squealing noise? I mean, noises come in all shapes and sizes, but they can point you towards a given, you know, a given component or area to look. If you've got like maybe say a steering noise, like say when you turn the wheel, you hear like a rusty hinge kind of noise, or you maybe hear the belt squealing, that kind of thing. You can best hear that noise if you're just sitting still. So start your checks by just turning the wheel from side to side, and I'll shut up so you can listen. I don't hear or feel anything abnormal here. I mean the steering feels a little, uh, nope, nothing here. All right, now let's drive. Now I can hear it a little bit there. Now the owner says that this noise is coming from the right front. I don't know how well that microphone is going to pick that up, but quite a bit of noise there on this bumpy road. Why don't we take a trip? Oh, there it is a lot. Also, see how the steering wheel is moving? If it's moving at lower speeds like that, that's a tire issue. That's either a tire or wheel. Something's not round is what that is. So tires are always suspect, always. Just driving normally, I don't seem to hear the noise. All right, let's turn around and head back to the shop. Okay, here we are in a smooth parking lot, and I was actually hearing it a little bit, and we're not even going over bumps. I'm gonna go play some miniature golf. Of course, it's not doing it now. I'm just gonna try something real quick as I pull out here, and that's getting on it hard. Also pay attention when you brake. Is there a noise when you brake? Is there a noise when you change direction? When you go from drive to reverse, is there a noise then? The idea is to do as much testing as you can to try and figure out what duplicates the noise. So is it, like I said, a change in direction whether going from reverse to drive? Is it when you're turning the wheel? Is it just going over bumps? Is it just going over a lot of bumps? Is it only going over big bumps? Is it going over bumps when you turn the wheel? Is it making a noise only when you're turning the wheel? Is it a clicking noise? Is it a thumping noise? Is it a squealing noise? Is it a noise like a rusty hinge? I mean, all these things can give you a clue to what you're looking for, but I think we're gonna get our best results when we get this into the shop. All right, now we brought our TL into the shop. Let's start shaking it around, rocking and rolling. Start looking for loose parts. I started by popping the hood because I like to take a look at where the struts mount up on the top along with any of the other things under and around there that might cause a noise. All right, now let's open the hood. And what we want to do is, I like to, I can't really see the upper strut mounts in this, but I can listen in that area. I pull these covers off, but you might not need to start with that. But what you can do is you just kind of shove the car around, move the suspension, see if you can make it make the noise. Actually, I kind of hear it right there. Watch out for these hoods. Sometimes they don't like to stay up. And if that's the case, I got a little trick for you. Since we know our noise is over in this area, let's jack up this wheel. All right, now that we've got the wheel off the ground, we're down to its level. I've only got it on the jack, so you don't want to be under it. But grab the wheel at three and nine o'clock and wiggle back and forth. Grab the top and bottom, wiggle here, wiggle it all around. And what you're feeling for is loose parts. Okay, I've got it supported on this subframe now that we're under here. But these are the parts you want to look for. You hear a rusty, hingy, squeaky kind of noise when you turn the wheel or sometimes when you go over bumps. Ball joints are a big cause of things like that. So when you're pushing the wheel up and down, back and forth, you may need a buddy under here looking to see if there's any movement here where this boot is. Some suspension systems, however, when you jack things up off the ground like this, will actually load up the ball joint and you won't be able to see any movement in it. In cases like those, what you need to do is put the jack up underneath the control arm and different systems call for this. So in other words, just do this check anyway, no matter what. But look to see if when you put the weight of the car on the actual suspension and jack it up under this control arm, then take a pry bar and put it in here and pry up to see if you've got any movement in this area. And then try it like this and try it once with the jack underneath here. If you don't have any movement there, you don't have any movement there. That's one of the places to look. Next, you want to check your tire rod ends right here. And that's the one, and this connects to your power steering rack. And you want to look back up in this area and you want to look back up in here. And when you're moving the tire, like back at that side to side, this is where you'll be looking for movement. But look for movement in here or sometimes in here. If the movement's back here, it's an inner tire rod. If the movement's out here, it's the outer tire rod. Watch the power steering rack video and you'll see how to do each of those. The other thing, if you remember from the element video that I did, stabilizer links. So you want to make sure that these guys right here are not loose, broken. These are the enclosed style of links, but some of these links are like stacked up bushings, things like that. And I've seen those break quite often. So you want to make sure that you might even want to get a pry bar in here because sometimes, especially these that are sealed like this, you won't see the movement. So you'll have to like get a pry bar up under here and move, actually move the bar and see if you hear or feel any clicking that's happening. If you don't, then you can rule those out. Control arm bushings. So look where the actual control arm meets the body and look for any movement there. Sometimes you might see movement or something like that in that area. That's another place. And back to steering, sometimes I've seen the mounts, watch the Pontiac video. Sometimes I've seen the actual mounts for the power steering rack be broken loose or cracked on the subframe. And in that case, that would be obviously a different type of repair. If you have a clicking on turns, CV joints are big for this with a front wheel drive car. If you're turning right and you hear the clicking, then it's the left axle. If you're turning left, then it's the right axle. So that should help you identify it. If you don't see like a split boot or something like that, sometimes you'll get a remanufactured axle and it's not so good. Another place I want you to check is these other upper control arm bushings and ball joints. Sometimes you can squeeze these and you'll see movement here, but when you move the tire in and out, you'll see some movement here. Also the bushings in the back where this attaches to the actual body, those are also suspects. So it may be that this whole arm starts to move. Next, look at the coil springs. You may see like a broken coil or something like that. You also want to take a real good look at the strut itself. If you see any oil residue on the outside of the strut, then the strut is probably bad because they're filled with oil. And once the oil starts to leak out, they don't dampen as they should. Some places call these dampers. Now lastly, if you're having real trouble finding the noise, you don't find any loose parts like I'm not finding here, here's something I want you to try. Bottom line is you check in everything that moves on the suspension. And if you're in a position like I am now where you've checked all the suspension parts, there's no leaking struts, no broken coil springs, no loose ball joints, no loose upper ball joints, no loose bushings on either one of the control arms. Inner and outer tie rods are good. The rack is seemingly good where it is. And you're like, what the heck? I hear the noise and I'm still not finding where it is. Road simulator. Simulate a bumpy road and hit the tire with the hammer. But hit it like in the tread, just like it would if it was driving down the road and hitting a pothole or something like that. You become the pothole. And then give a listen for around the suspension. I am not hearing the noise at all. A lot of times what I find when I do this is reach your hand up and put it on top of the caliper. And that's what I'll do while I'm beating on stuff is I'll like grab different components if I hear the noise. And you'll actually be able to feel it as you're hitting the tire. I really should have put my safety glasses on to keep this dirt out of my eyes. I don't really hear the noise. But this, this guy here will help you find the rattles and things that are here. And if you've swing on it and swing it from like, don't just do it like in the tread, do it on the side a little bit, hit it there, hit it here, hit it, hit it all around until you can really get the noise to resonate. You do. And then just put your hand on the suspected part and you'll feel the noise. You'll feel the vibration that it's making. All right. Something else I forgot strut rod bushings. These strut rods run from the core support to the lower control arm and pretty much keep the lower control arm located in a certain spot. If these bushings go bad, you'll, you'll hear a clunk like either as you accelerate or brake. And just as you have that backwards or forwards movement. And this is what it looks like outside of the car. But and this is actually from my clutch video, but you can, you can check these bushings and if the bushings are bad, they could be responsible for a clunk. So make sure you check as many parts of the suspension as you possibly can and try to move it around as many ways as you can before you're done. Okay. We've shook the suspension by hand and pried on it with a pry bar. We've looked for leaps in the struts. We've looked for broken coil springs. We've looked for broken parts. Another thing I want you to look for is anytime you see a fastener with like orange dust or any bushings or anything like that with orange dust around the outside, that's a loose part. Cause a lot of times what happens is, is whatever component it is, that's loose. We'll get a little bit of moisture in there and it'll start to rest up. And as it moves, that rust will come out. So that's a good indicator that you found your noise. If you see like orange dust around the outside of like say a bolt or a bushing or, or anything like that. But now that I haven't really heard it, but yet I heard the noise when I was rocking the whole car back and forth, I'm starting to suspect something else. So I'm going to remove these plastic covers, get a look at the upper strut mounts, which these are underneath this tie bar up here. But wait a minute. I think I just found the noise. All right. Now I haven't seen this too often cause it's gotta be pretty bad to get to this point, but take a look at this here engine mount. I saw the cracks to start with. When I pull the rubber back, see all the shiny metal, look at that. And you can see that this piece of aluminum is sitting right down on top of here. And I bet you, if I put my floor jack underneath this, it would lift up and come right off of there. Cause I don't think that's a mount motor mount. And he won't look at that. I'm just moving the engine with my hand. You're going to be jacking under the oil pan, put a block of wood between your jack and the oil pan. Okay. We got our jack in position. Yup. Yeah, that shouldn't happen. So destroyed engine mount is the cause of our noise coming from the right front. Not really a suspension component. Okay. I'm not, this isn't a video about how to replace engine mounts. It's it's a video on how to find a noise, but here's the bullet points. Take it for a test drive. Listen for the noise. Listen to if there's any specific thing, like, is it turning the wheel? Is it just driving over railroad tracks? Just driving over speed bumps? Does it happen slowly? Does it happen quickly? Is it like a rattle? Is it like a bang? Is it a thump? Is it a thud? And then also don't forget that there's wheels in the back too. So it just could as easily be coming from there. Something I'd also like you to try. And I'm going to show you that real quick. All right. Now here's another strange one that I've found that might help you. Here's another check if you've got a rattle or noise. In the past, I've had cars that have been in rear end collisions or had aftermarket exhaust systems on them. These things are on rubber hangers. So this will move. So some of these will move quite a bit and you'll be able to take the whole muffler assembly, but just grab the muffler assembly and shake it back and forth. Because sometimes where they mount on the rubber mounts, sometimes those break. And like I said, sometimes the components themselves get bent up. But I've seen on a couple of occasions where it was actually the exhaust that was bouncing around causing a noise that somebody thought was a suspension issue. Okay. So here's our old engine mount. We don't need no stinking engine mount. As you can see, it's destroyed. So let's take it for a drive and see if our noise is going. All right, here it is. Moment of truth. Yay. No more noise. One last thing I'd like to mention before I let you go is tires. I know I talked a little bit about that wobbly steering wheel earlier. In addition to that, you need to make sure that they're at the proper pressure. If the tire pressure is too low, every time you make a turn, it'll sound like you're in a Starsky and Hutch episode. And if they're too high, it'll bounce like a basketball all over the place. So too high a pressure is going to make the suspension work a lot more because the tires are going to be all bouncy. Too little tire pressure is going to make the tires scrub quite a bit, particularly on concrete. You're in the parking garage, you're going to hear a lot more of that squealing than you normally would. Those are also things to watch out for. And watch the wheel bearing video for that noise. But something to keep in mind with that noise is it's not always a wheel bearing. In fact, oftentimes I find that that's also a tire issue. So if you've got abnormal tire wear, that's another thing to look for. Run your hand along the top of the tire and feel for any high spots or any abnormalities. It should be relatively smooth. I mean, not so smooth you don't have any tread left, but your hand shouldn't be catching on stuff. If it is, it could represent an alignment issue or something going on with the suspension that's affecting the alignment that's causing the tires to wear unevenly. But uneven tire wear could cause also a low groaning noise as you're driving down the road. So keep that in mind. But it could also be a wheel bearing. And what you do to confirm it is you just swap the tires. Take the tires in the front, move them to the back, and then take it for another drive. If the noise changes or goes away, it's a tire issue. But if stays the same, then it could be a bearing issue. And see that video for how to pursue that. There's a couple more things I thought of since then. All right, back to you, Eric. I've also seen situations where somebody had some stuff in their trunk that when it shifted it would make a lot of noise. It'd be amazing the things that I found in people's trunks. I'm kind of scarred from it actually. The main point is look for loose stuff. Look for that orange dust. That's an important clue. Use that hammer. Hit that wheel. Try to reproduce that noise. Don't rule out brake calipers. If you do get a noise out of a brake caliper, I've serviced them. And sometimes it's the brake pads. Some brake pads are better than others. Some brake pads fit a little loose. If that's the case, they'll rattle around inside the caliper when you hit bumps. I've seen that a few times. And I usually start with servicing them. And if that doesn't work, I usually end up... Well, let's put it this way. If they're really cheap pads, I recommend replacing the pads and going from there. Look for missing shims on the brake calipers themselves. If those shims are missing, yeah, things are going to rattle around. So if those little shiny pieces of metal, they need to be there on some calipers. Not every caliper has them. Of course, if they're missing, how would you know? Good question. Parts guy should know. You should check with him to see if there's supposed to be any shims in there because many times they'll come with a new set of brake pads. Shake the wheel side to side, top to bottom. Look for loose ball joints, both upper and lower. Look at the bushings where they attach to the body for the control arms, both upper and lower there. Look for broken coil springs. Broken coil springs honestly don't often make noise. What they do is they affect ride height. So if you've got a broken coil spring, the car will have a tendency to lean to that side with the broken spring. So if you've a car, you look at the front, it's got the Detroit lean going to it, then you might suspect a coil spring issue. If it's not broken, it could just be old and sagging. Some people are heavier than others and they're a little harder on the suspension. It's usually on the driver's side that you'll see that. Particularly if you go to put it on an alignment rack and you notice that the numbers are way off on camber. The only way to correct that is actually to replace those springs because springs control ride height. We'll get into a whole suspension video. Now the wheels are at some point and we'll talk about all the different parts and what they do. Look at the dampers, shock absorbers, struts, whatever you want to call them, and check them for leakage. If there's any oil leaking out of those, it's a good indication that they're bad. So you won't necessarily hear the noise like when you hit the tire or anything, but if you see leaking struts, that leaves an air pocket inside the strut and the strut will bang around internally. Also check the nut, the nut where the top of the strut goes through the upper strut mount. Look at that nut. I've seen times where the bushing that the strut goes through inside the upper mount will get loose and that'll rock back and forth. That was the part about bouncing the car and rocking it back and forth. And lastly, like the cradle bolts, like the whole subframe on front-wheel drive cars in particular. There are times when you have to remove that whole subframe like say to put a transmission or an engine or something like that in. And let's say somebody was in a hurry and they didn't tighten everything all the way or, you know, for whatever reason those are not tight. Once again, look for that orange dust. That's usually a pretty good indication you got a loose fastener or something like that. I've cured noises just by zipping up a bolt. But you've got to be thorough. You've got to be methodical and you've got to pay attention. Ball joints also, they sound like rusty hinges. Particularly if you just, like the first test we did, just sitting there turning the wheel back and forth. You hear like a grinding noise, squeaking rusty hinge kind of noise then. Put your hand on the ball joint. Like just leave the car on the ground, have a buddy turn the wheel back and forth and just put your hand on like the lower control arm and feel around the ball joint. Keep your fingers out of those moving parts. But you can usually feel where a noise is coming from the closer you get to it. Lastly, chassis ear. We talked about it before and finding a noise. I've actually had to spend days sometimes putting chassis ear in different parts of the car, parts of the suspension to try to figure out where the heck that noise was coming from. Those were tough. Those were really tough. So there are some that are going to be hard to find. And this one, this one's a little tricky. I'm glad, I'm glad we saw this because don't rule out those engine mounts. And it was interesting how it acted. It wasn't, it didn't necessarily make the noise all the time, but pretty much when the engine got a chance to rock back and forth and sort of ride on that mount. So it was good to have that information. I've about talked this one out. So I'm Eric the Car Guy. You can always find me at ericthecarguy.com or follow me on Facebook and Twitter. You can visit me over on the forum. We talk about stuff like this a lot of times and and how we fix them and we try to solve people's problems. It's a good time. Be safe, have fun, stay dirty. I'll see you later.