Producer Ken Scott's Amazing Life and Beatles Stories Part 1

Welcome to an intimate conversation with the legendary record producer and the author of Abbey Road to Ziggy Stardust, off the record with The Beatles, Bowie, Elton and so much more, my new best friend Ken Scott. I am your host Patricia Fripp or as some of you know me as Fripp the Sister. My co-host is a 29-time Emmy winner and author of The Five Best Decisions The Beatles Ever Made, Bill Stanton. He is a big fan of Ken and his book. He said if I can co-host you can have one of my broken Emmys from my garage. It might interest you to know who is in our audience. We have Hall of Fame speakers and rock musicians and rock musicians who are Hall of Fame speakers. We have music producers and a photographer of rock stars who is also a rock star speaker. We have retired Microsoft executives who are also professional musicians plus best-selling authors, international speakers and executive speech coaches. This is what you can look forward to. I will ask Ken about his life and a couple of my favourite stories. Then my co-host Bill will ask his questions. Then we will open up to our audience for your short specific questions. As you can imagine Ken has many requests to speak. He has one request of us. How could he get representation for his speaking? You can give advice in this meeting or let us know you can help and I can put you in touch. Please stay muted unless asking a question and when possible keep your webcam on. Any comments you want to make or questions you have put in the chat. Paul is in the background moderating and chat is not to the group. I find that irritating and disruptive. Just sit back and enjoy what could very well be a once in a lifetime opportunity. So Paul if we can spotlight Ken. Ken you have had an amazing life. Let's go back to the beginning. When you were a little boy what did you want to grow up and be? Well starting at the age of 12 and a half I wanted to be a recording engineer. So I got a tape machine for Christmas and tape became my love. I loved the feel of it, being able to edit it, the smell of it. Tape has a unique smell and I grew to love that very quickly and just onward from there and even without the internet I looked into as much as I could about how to get into the recording industry and unfortunately I was told that I would have to go to university which didn't please me because I wasn't a particularly good scholar and I hated school but I stayed on longer than most of my friends. They left at 15. I stayed on to try and get A level to get the examinations that we used to have to take GCEs and to be able to get into university. And then how did you get in the business? I was fed up with school. I was taking mock exams for the GCEs. It was a Friday. I went home and determined that that's it. I'm not going to go back to school again. So that night I pulled out a phone book if people remember what phone books were like back then and found probably 10 places that I thought might need someone called a recording engineer and I wrote to them. There were radio stations, a couple of TV stations because that's what we had back then, record companies. So I wrote on the Friday, mailed them out on the Saturday, heard back from one of them on the Tuesday. They wanted to interview me the next day, the Wednesday, so I took my first trip across London. I lived in southeast London. I had to go over to northwest London all on my own. I'd never done a job interview. I'd never done anything like that before. Went there and on the Friday after the interview I heard from them that they wanted me to start the following Monday. So within a week my whole life changed and the organisation that called me back and interviewed me and had me start was a company called EMI and they started me at the EMI recording studios which of course now is known as Abbey Road, probably the most famous recording studio in the world. And within three months who were you working with? Some, the Beatles I think they were called, something like that, yeah. Side two of a hard day's night, the non-film stuff. Just, it's been my life, what can I say, it's been ridiculous. And what did you learn from working with the Beatles? Well, so much. Number one, the training at EMI for a recording engineer was incredible. At the time we hated it but looking back it was absolutely amazing starting from right from the lowest rung and gradually going up as an assistant engineer I got to sit beside seven of probably the greatest recording engineers around at that point and learn how they placed their mics, what mics they used. More importantly I learnt at that time the relationship between the producer and the engineer and the artist. I'm a firm believer that being a recording engineer or a producer, a good 85% of the gig is personality driven. If you don't get on with the act, if you don't get on with the producer or whoever's there, you're fighting a losing battle because they're looking over your shoulder the entire time and no one works particularly well when you've got someone looking over your shoulder all the time. So I learned that. Specifically from the Beatles, don't be afraid. Both them and Mr Bowie, they made records for themselves. They didn't make them for a particular audience. They made records that they wanted, they would be pleased to listen to in 10 years time and that's the way my career has moved. Once I started to have the choice of who I work with, what I did, it was purely, 90% of it was purely what I would like to hear in 10, 15 years time and here I am 60 years on and I'm still listening to a lot of it. Great. Now you told me you were very proud that anytime there's a top 100 album list out, that you have worked on at least 20 of them. Not 20. Okay, so you said on every 100 you'd worked at least 20. No, if every 100, when they have the kind of the top 50 or the top 100, I will have a couple in the top 20 but there are other people that have done that as well and so it's great to be in that position but I am unlike anyone else in the world because I also happen to have, thanks to Q magazine, I also happen to have the worst record of all time which was a Duran Duran album. So yeah, I've got both ends of the spectrum there. Well, tell us how it came to be the worst album because there's quite a story in this. Well, too many artists try and make records for a particular audience. Sometimes the act will decide, no, I'm going to do it differently, I'm going to do what I want to do and that's kind of how the album, I did the Thank You album with Duran, that's how it started. We were making a record for ourselves, it was all cover songs and it was going great. The way we recorded it, they were on a world tour and so whenever they took a break, I would fly to wherever they were and we'd go into the studio for a couple of days and I'd fly back to LA, they'd go on and play some gigs, I'd then meet up with them again somewhere else, do a couple of days recording. We were piece meeting it together like that and I would come back to LA with rough mixes and I'd play them for friends and they'd say, who's that? I said, it's Duran Duran. It's not, that can't possibly be Duran Duran, it's much too rock and roll, it's too hard edged. That's what we were going for, we wanted something different. Everything was going great until the management company and the record company got involved and said, you can't do that, it's not like anything you've done before, you're going to lose your audience, which is exactly what I'd learned from The Beatles and Bowie, is what you should do, don't try and second guess your audience, move on and take them with you, be brave. Well, unfortunately the band weren't brave, they decided, well the management and the record company know best so we should follow their advice and I was out, they brought back someone they'd worked with before and taking over three quarters of the way through an album and trying to change it, the amount that it would need to be changed doesn't work and it didn't work for that particular album and hence it became Q's worst record of all time. But we can't blame you, we can't, we blame the management. Of course, always. Yeah of course, I've heard that story before. Yeah. Now when you speak Ken, your audience likes to ask you a story about Eric Clapton. Yeah, it's probably the question I've been asked the most and from Beatles fans, from just people that like them, they don't have to be that fanatic about the band, but it's his playing on George's While My Guitar Gently Weeps and unfortunately I remember absolutely nothing about it. I was the engineer on a session, I remember nothing about it and for my book I also spoke to John Smith who was my assistant engineer on the sessions and I spoke to Chris Thomas who was George Martin's assistant and produced for a while while George was on holiday and none of us can remember anything. At the time it didn't mean a thing, it was just okay, so it's Eric Clapton, he's coming in to play guitar, great, this will be good and then we forget about it. It's only when it becomes part of history like 50 years on and people are interested and it was just another day at the office for us. Strangely enough, it sounds terrible saying that it's just another day at the office but that's the best way to describe it. I've even tried hypnotherapy to try and bring back memories of that because it is now part of history, cultural history as such and I'd love to remember it and give what I remember about it but unfortunately I can't. All right, well one story you do remember, I want you to tell our pals about your Hollywood party and the gatecrasher. Okay, here we go, Down and Dirty. So a little while ago I knocked management for a brief period of time. I became a manager, the personal manager of a band. It was a band called Missing Persons and I became involved with them through Frank Zappa who recommended them to me. So we tried all over the world to get a record deal, we couldn't get one, no one was interested in the band so we put out our own four-song EP which did remarkably well and it became the most requested record of the year on a top LA station called KROQ and round about the same time we sold out the Santa Monica Civic which is somewhere between two and three thousand people and we were finally, after those two things, we finally got an offer of record deal with Capitol, Capitol Records. I thought as the manager we need to celebrate so decided after the Santa Monica Civic gig to have a party at my house. Well even though we had security and all of that kind of thing I've been told that about 250 people went through the house at some point during that party and at various times a couple of police officers came to tell us to turn down the noise and then eventually tell us to turn it up. Well towards the end it didn't start now the party didn't start till one o'clock in the morning because it was after the show and so it was winding down almost everyone except some very close friends had left just before dawn and we thought let's go out celebrate have drinks whilst relaxing in in the jacuzzi. So I go out to turn it all on and I see this this boy that I'd no idea who he was, late teens I'd say, no idea who he was he was by the side of the pool he had his arms up like this and he had a huge grin on his face. I thought what the hell is going on? I carried on turned the jacuzzi on went on went in put uh swimming trunks on everything we all got ready to go in however many there were of us got in the jacuzzi and uh we're just chilling it was it was really nice and the sun came up and everything finally we have enough we decide to go in and uh no one's really taken too much notice of this boy who was still there with that grin on his face until I get dressed and I go out to turn the jacuzzi off. Now he's still there only he doesn't have the grin on his face anymore it's it's a grimace on his face and I go over to him I said look what the hell is going on here and he said uh my testicles are stuck in the suction. Okay I went running in as fast as I could telling everyone that was still there what was going on and one guy hadn't changed yet he was still in his trunks and he says don't worry I'll take care of it he goes running out jumps in the pool puts his arms around the guy and his feet up on the side and pulls back and I've never heard such a loud scream in my life unfortunately it didn't work the guy was still stuck there so the next thing was calling uh the paramedics after them hanging up numerous times because hello uh yeah there's there's a guy in my pool he's got his testicles stuck at that point they would they would hang up we eventually managed to get through to them there was a knock on the door these three guys in full firefighting regalia that the helmets way up they said what is going on so explain it took them out that they looked they huddled up and then one of them said uh I'm sorry we're going to have to break your concrete my wife with some very foul language uh said you're not going to break my concrete you can break his balls before you break my concrete and I said look there has to be another way and the three of them looked very sheepishly at each other and one of them said do you have any Vaseline so I went running into the kids bathroom kitchen bathroom cabinet got a jar of Vaseline out took it out to them and the one thing that everyone that was there swears they will never forget is one of these very tall very big macho fire department guys on his knees rubbing Vaseline on this guy's balls yes well I hope he never crashed another party now but I tell you what one of the guests that was there who was uh the weather girl for the top morning uh radio show in LA she took him home and was actually as she gave weather reports for the next week she was telling him how black and blue he was so he still carried on making news for the next week all right good now you've got great stories and you've had a great life at what point in your career did you get invited to give speeches and how was your speaking evolved it wasn't a question of being invited uh to start giving speeches it occurred I have never or I hadn't ever wanted to deal with my past it was always the next project the next project next project until one day and it was it was working on the Duran album uh the thank you album uh the the ridiculous things we had to put an acoustic guitar on one song and I knew it would be like a one take thing it would take five minutes but management said well where would you like to do it now I was in LA and Warren Cucurullo the guitarist was in London they said where would you like to do it and I said oh well Abbey Road of course I was being stupid I never thought that they would actually do it they booked Abbey Road on a Saturday and so I flew over went to Abbey Road we did it in like one take two takes and that was it but the the electronics whiz that was on that day at the studio had started at Abbey Road around about the same time as I did and he had specifically asked to work that day so we could have a chat and at one point uh as we were talking he said do you remember when we first started here and we got all of these incredible stories from the the old timers the ones that were there right from the beginning of the recording industry and I said yeah it was amazing he said well now we've become them the youngsters want to hear our stories so that plus the fact that I'd started working with George Harrison again on a reissue of All Things Must Pass plus I was doing a 5.1 mix of the Ziggy Stardust album the Bowie album so my past almost become today it caught up with me or however you want to think of it so that that started me thinking about that and my wife started uh me thinking about doing talk so I put something together and interestingly I think it was Brian Brian Keehew who's who's here today that uh he found a place for me to give my very first talk and it was just inviting friends and it was the worst experience ever I I couldn't look at the audience at all I was looking down the entire time and uh giving this this talk and I was given hell for the next couple of weeks by my wife you have to look at people then and I can't remember how it happened I I did I guess I must have been invited for some reason I must have thrown written some something but I got an invite to talk at uh the first year of a big music festival down in Brighton and this was better I knew I had to look at the audience this time and I'm I'm looking and I see my wife she's what what what's going on what's she doing and I carry on and I'm looking at the audience and I'm doing what I'm supposed to do and I look over at my wife and I what have I done this time anyway it suddenly dawns on me I'm I've got gum I'm chewing so I just turn around pull it out the only trouble was I had nowhere to put it so I had to stuff this gum in my pocket and carry it on and of course I got two weeks of sheer hell from my wife again for you don't chew gum yeah right well and it's just been onward and upward since then I've I've I've learned more about audiences I've I've uh certainly gained I'm I'm much more self-assured walking out there than I was to start with I found that because people are interested in my stories uh it's fun I I now understand and there was one time I I cracked a joke that wasn't I'd never thought it was just one of those off-the-cuff jokes and the audience laughed and suddenly the feeling that I got from that I understood what artists get from their performing I understand why the Peter Gabriels can be very quiet off stage but then get on stage and they become a completely different person or Michael Jackson any of those it I understood what they get from the audience that that giving back and it's been great ever since well I would say 100% of your audience today understand the experience of speaking and performing in front of audiences yes so with that for something different let's move to my co-host Bill Stainton who Bill tell everybody as soon as you're highlighted about your t-shirt and then you can ask whatever questions you have for Ken okay thanks um yeah I figured it was appropriate to wear my official White Album t-shirt I was trying to think which t-shirt I should wear but the White Album because Ken would rhyme out loud that's your album um so uh I thought I'd wear that I also want to say uh we talked a little bit uh just before everybody else joined um I have been having a blast rereading your book in preparation for this I read it when I when it first came out when I first got it um what I love about it so much is it's it's got enough technical stuff sorry uh for uh for the people who want that for people who want more of that Brian Keyhew I've got your book right here signed thank you for that um but this is also this also talks about what it's like to be as they say in Hamilton in the room where it happened whether that's Abbey Road Studio Number Two or Trident or working with you know Bowie Elton Supertramp so my first question to you is you've worked with a lot of people that we would call musical geniuses uh some of which are on this zoom right now when you're there in the room where it happens does it seem like genius or does it seem more like experimentation mistakes trying things until they till they come together I mean do you know that it's genius happening at the moment maybe you did with Duran Duran I don't it it's you're you're putting something together now some sometimes like if you if you take a band like Mahavishnu Orchestra that I worked with they are they go in and they're they're ready to go there there's you don't there's no experimentation it's just get them to get the great sound get them to play and make sure you you have the tape rolling or they can these days the computer rolling when they give that one great performance other times like my learning with the Beatles the first first time I ever sit behind a mixing console I'd never sat behind one before first session was with that band again the Beatles recording a new version of Your Mother Should Know from the Magical Mystery Tour and it was Paul wanted to try a new arrangement on it and luckily for me they'd already recorded it at an outside studio he just wanted to try a new arrangement and luckily for me the new arrangement didn't work because I had no idea what the hell I was doing I knew I could turn the knob like this and push up a fader and pull it back down what they actually did I'd watched it but I'd never experienced it it's like that first talk you've never experienced it so it can be dicey so with with the Beatles learning my craft as an engineer it there are no words to explain how incredible that that was because here was a band that had no time constraints no monetary constraints they wanted everything to sound different every time it was recorded so I could experiment with different mics in different positions as much as I wanted to and that's what they wanted they wanted that experimentation and I had the confidence even though I didn't specifically know what I was doing I had the confidence to know that they could I could get this terrible piano sound say and they could come up and hear it and there was as much chance of them saying oh that sounds like crap I hate it as them coming upstairs and saying it sounds like crap but I love it we'll use it and just just that they can accept even bad sounds will work in the right situation that filled me with confidence and and it just carried on from there and so there are various ways sometimes it's it's all worked out in advance sometimes you have to experiment and the experiments can take a long time and sometimes even a mistake uh can turn gold in in your book you talk about I mean what one of my favorite tracks off the white album is glass onion um there was something didn't you threw something up that becomes one of the to me my favorite like one second of the song is that last on the snare drum yeah that was a mistake on your part though wasn't it absolutely I punched in and erased some snares that we'd overdubbed and back then there was no cut and paste or anything like that if you erased it it was gone until Giles Martin uh does remixes of them and he copy and pastes and puts it in there so that moment is no longer there even though John liked it I liked it too um so you you've worked with uh a lot of people with big egos and you you came in the Beatles during the white album period um there's a lot of debate about how about how much friction there there either was or wasn't during that time just like there is during the get back sessions and everything but still it was a lot of individual work and things like that you had to kind of help herd all that together when you're in the room with four or more people and it's not just the Beatles you've worked with so many people like um who have very strong personalities strong egos I don't mean that necessarily in a negative way right how how do you kind of monitor when to speak up and when to hold back you know I mean I know exactly what you mean and that's one of the things excuse me when when I said earlier that uh how like 85 percent is personality driven you you and I learned so much just sitting by the engineers seeing the relationship between the artist the producer and the engineer you learn excuse me you learn when to shut up at that point or hopefully you learn at that point I've heard multitudes of stories about students that have moved on they've done their university courses or whatever and that they go actually work find a job in a studio but it's ground level it's and they expect to immediately be working on a huge band because they've gone through all of this training and they basically they know ---- when they come out of it if in real life it's one of those