Jonah Tong Impresses, Mets Still NEED Tarik Skubal? | Straight Outta Flushing

Welcome back everybody to another edition of Straight Outta Flushing, your boy Dexter Henry with my guy Tyler Ward, aka Wardy, fresh off a Labor Day weekend. We are back to work. Wardy, what's good man? Dex, I'm feeling great. Listen, the New York Mets are not making playoffs this year, but at this point, what we always say, time to focus on the positives, right? From the youth movement that the Mets have going on with guys like Joe Natan that we're going to get into, to obviously the guys who have been here and the continued dominance of Noah McClain and Carson Banch. There have been some things to clean on to over this past Labor Day weekend to be happy about, and I'm looking forward to getting into this deep dive with you today. So let's go ahead and do it. Yeah, I want to get into it because we saw Joe Natan make his first start of 2026 on Monday on Labor Day. And look, I think you're going to have some mixed reactions to this outing. Okay. Went five innings. We got the win, if that matters for some of y'all. Doesn't matter for me. Four hits, four runs, one walk, seven strikeouts, 87 pitches thrown. You look at this line, right, Wardy? I would say it doesn't really describe the outing in totality because you kind of have to take it from how things started, right? Strikes out his first three batters. He strikes out here. He generated 12 whiffs through the first two innings. That was that tide of meds that cast record for the most in the first two innings of the game. So very impressive there, right? Jacob DeGrom exists to mind you like the best. Yes. Strikeout guys to start their game. So not bad. Not bad. Right. Then if you're a Mets fan, you kind of like, ah, the second inning, it gives up four runs in the second inning. And this looked like some of the stuff we had seen from Jonah Tom before it looked like what we had heard about him earlier in the minors this year, but he's pitched well in the minors before getting called up last week. So when you looked at this, and then he settles down after that, right? And he's fine. So when you look at this, were you more encouraged by the outing than the four runs in the five innings would suggest? And really just one bad inning for Jonah Tom? What did you take from this outing, Wardy? Were you encouraged by what you saw from him despite looking at that line and saying, yeah, I mean, I was encouraged for the following reasons. We have to start with the fact that when you look at the K to walk ratio, I mean, Tom had seven strikeouts to just one walk, right? I love the fact that he was able to command the strikes in the way that he did. I also love the fact that he only allowed those four total hits leading to those earned runs. So it wasn't like he was giving up a hit sprayed as well as walking everyone, their mother across five minutes. I also love the fact that after Tom obviously got rocked there and that ending and gave up the amount that he did there in the second, the four, he settled down. And that was the big takeaway because you had Matt's fans, of course, overreacting on social media. I've been there at times. We all have been there naturally of saying, oh, well, this is, this is Jonah time. Not a guy we should call up getting, getting rocked four runs in two innings decks. Why are we even having this guy on the, on the mountain right now in Miami? What are we doing? I'm getting no family text me saying, I don't know if Jonah has it. I just said, let this marinate. Like there's a lot of relax. Like as someone who used to be so reactionary that way, like off of like the first start or whatever, like even if Tom did not look good at all, I would be saying there's a reason why they're giving him a leash now and you should pay attention whether you like it or not as a fan base. That's what the Mets are going to do with Tom down the stretch here. I mean, Andy Green just said it himself. We're going to continue to rock with Tom down the stretch for likely the remainder of the year now. So I'm very encouraged. And what we saw Tom fall short of are things that we've been pointing out all along with Tom going back to last year. I think about this start right away. Let me know if you remember the stacks. It's one of the causes I think it's as maybe his third career start. I could be wrong. We're in Cincinnati and all he does is give up around four runs and every single run is a solo home run, just middle, middle, middle, middle. Like he's, he's basically a two pitch pitcher. I know that he still looks more as a two pitch pitcher than a guy that has a full repertoire. They still working on with a cutter and everything else, but that was the big bug, but they were just sitting heater on him and he wasn't pinpointing his corners. When you look at how this outing was the first, I mean, one, when he gave up the triple to snow hot, it was literally a middle, middle again, that was served on a platter that just comes down to location for Todd. It doesn't matter how good he was throwing that 96, 97 plus when you serve it up on a tee, the way that he did, that's going to be the result. And then the grand poly home run that he gave up that made it a four to three Marlins lead at this point before the Mets obviously rallied back and won nine to four. You know, that was a pitch that was on the outside corner. It wasn't even a bad pitch by Jonah, but it was hit really well. And this was a fastball that obviously is coming across a little flat to these Marlins hitters. And they were able to pounce on him, but between only giving up four runs, settling down after that fourth inning, not letting that define him the way that this is the same Jonah Tom that on Friday night baseball against Jacob Graham last season was shaking in his boots and couldn't get out of the first inning. I don't believe he got more than what two outs maybe in that starter. So, so like, I think there's a lot of positives to take away from this outing be very different. If he was walking a lot of guys, if he was really missing location all over the place, I love the fact that he had the swing and miss and Dex, before I throw it back to you, let's just dissect a little bit on the arsenal here, right? Because you have the change-up that he threw the most in this one, the forcing, the cutter and the curveball and the change-up he threw roughly 40%. And it was sitting right around 88 miles per hour and had 1700 on the 31% of the time. This one again, got hit around a bit more that we saw city 96, topping 97, 98. And he was at 22 to 2300 on a spin rate. The cutter new pitch in the mix for Jonah are the reason why he's fluctuated with his success in triple a this year, up until his past eight starts where he posted around them to a year, right? 23% of the arsenal sat right around 91. It was right around 21 to 2,200. And last but not least the curveball, which went right can be a big weapon for him. Obviously it didn't utilize it much at all in this outing. However, we only saw one swing on it because he only threw it 8% of the time. Yeah. We're looking at 27, 2,800 on the spin rate sitting high seventies. So the takeaway here for Jonah is when you look at the whips, especially, I mean, he was able to get good swing and miss on that change-up that we saw. Yep. At 40, 42%. Yep. That's, that's not bad. You know, the four seam, it just comes down to location, you know, like it's no different when no McLean has not his sharpest outing yet. He still gives the Mets, you know, seven and he's a work of three earned runs, but he has like four walks and the runs he gave up was literally because he was throwing middle, middle, or his sweeper didn't sweep in a hunt. Like these things are going to happen, but to the Mets fans are saying, Oh, Jonah is not majorly ready. I honestly don't know how that can be your takeaway off of an outing like that personally, especially against the Marlins team. Well, they've sworn and missed a lot this year. They've also put the ball in play a lot. So give credit where credit's due Jonah, give up a lesson one hit printing that he found himself pitching. It could be a lot worse. Yeah. He had the one bad inning for me, for me, the big, there was a couple of things and you got to, you got to the pitch mix, which I want to come back to really quickly. Um, for sure. What stood out to me the most was the bounce back ability. How did he respond after the bad second inning? That was a key for me. He had a rough second and it really comes down to two pitches. As you mentioned in that second inning that went bad for him and he bounced back. When you look at a young pitcher, you want to see how they handle adversity like that. Does the game get away from them? Do they completely collapse? Jonah Tom didn't do that. You said he was shaking his boots last seat last season. And when one of his starts, we saw him, you know, give up the four solo homers in Cincinnati last year in September, this wasn't that okay. This wasn't that at all. The fact that he got 12 whiffs through the first two innings, right. It was very impressive. He was on his game. And when you look at him, I think you can look at this line and say, okay, the four runs. But for me, it's what did he do after that? And he was able to settle down and not allow anything after that really bad second inning. That was the key for me. What was he able to do? He, he retired Miami without another run, right? Over the final three innings, shut Miami down, shut the Marlins down. And so I agree with what Andy green said after the game, where he talked about the fact that Tom pitched better than his final line indicated. This is why you can't just look at numbers. Sometimes you've got to actually watch the games, right? You got to actually, well, you mean I shouldn't just scoreboard watch every day. The nuance of this matters. The context matters to all of this. You got to look at this. And I think that takes us to where we got to go next wardy, which is okay. And you kind of touched on this when you're looking at Jonah Tong now, and it's one start. We're not, we're not jumping out the window guys. We understand this is one start back here in 2026, but you're going to look the thing. I think you have to look at with him. And I think we are trying to do here. What's actually changed. What's changed from here. So you looked at the pitch mix, right? Don't, don't get caught up in the four runs. Don't that's doing a little too much. The pitch mix matters. I'm so glad you brought that up. I'm so glad you brought it up. Here's the thing. I would, this was the big thing for me watching Jonah Tom on labor day. Kenny mix it up a little bit more. Do I still think there's room to mix in more pitches as he gets comfortable with it at the major league level? Absolutely. But I love the whiff rate. He does change up 33 times in this one, right? 42% whiff rate, as you mentioned on the pitch. And he got five strikeouts on that pitch. That's pretty dope that you like there. We know about the foreign seamer. You're right about it. It's about location, location, location. Would you like to see him a little bit more confident? And I remember talking with my guy, Nick Pollock of Nick pitcher list about this. Would you like to see a mix in the curve ball a little bit more only through seven of them? Yes. You'd love to see that because if he can do that and keep hitters off balance, this is going to make him better. He's just not as confident in it yet. How do you get confidence guys? And anything comes with reps, it comes with reps. And this is what you're going to have to see from Jonah Tom. But I thought it was relevant that he was mixing in some of the curve ball and the cutter a bit more heavily in this one than we've seen. And we know the organization has been working on this with him throughout this year after we, the struggles that we saw from him in 2025 to just give him more weapons. This is what he's more weapons that he is confident in to keep hitters on off balance. And so what I would ask you with this is when you looked at the pitches that we saw him in this pitch mix here, do you think that he can start believing in the cutter a little bit more to become part of his arsenal to be harder for major league hitters to hit? And you know, I talked about Nick Pollock, my guy talking about this, he believes the curve ball is essential to him becoming a legitimate fourth weapon that he can throw. How essential do you think those two pitches are already to Jonah Tong a scene, Jonah Tom 2.0, him reaching that next level of where he believes in the Mets organization believes that he can go. Well, I think it goes without saying that the goal to see Tom is to see him have a level of God-willingly execution that we saw last year in double-A. I mean, where he was simply unhittable for those opposing batters. And a key part of the reason as to why that was, was not only his ability to get such high strikeout rates, but that curve ball had plenty usage throughout the process. Okay. Him able to tee up his fastball sitting mid to high nineties, the way that he is, I think killing you with the backdoor breaking ball after the fact, there's only so much that you can do when your team that up and not hanging it. So I think this was a nice, encouraging first outing for him, the curve ball and the change up, especially the curve ball, the curve ball is always something that you want to see and your starters mix. Cause if they can pull down their back pocket at any point and have the execution that we've seen, like when I think of curve ball pitches, I think of probably one of the best to ever do it in the game. And that's playing Kershaw, right? And when you have a pitch like dominant, like that, and your back pocket that you can use at any point, especially as your execution for your put out pitch, it's so difficult for opposing batters to try to tee you up because when you have a fast and blow by them, especially dining your quarters, or you can set them up for failure and go to the off speed and breaking, it just adds a lot more layer and dimension. Whereas currently speaking, when we look at Tom, he was effective, but there are still some levels of cause for concern that he really is more of a two pitch pitcher, again, heavy fastball and heavy, heavy change of usage. In this one. My question is next time Tom is out there, are they going to basically go with the approach where if it ain't broke, why fix it? Or are they going to go with the approach of let's now dabble a bit more? Is any going to say to Jonah ahead of time? All right. Today's game plan is we actually want you to utilize your curveball at least say 20% today. You know what? We're going to go all the way up to 30% usage on this just because we want to see the effectiveness of it. Like maybe there's an emphasis in similarity to how they went about him in triple A. Well, they go like that to be determined. They might not do that at all. And they may just say, let's focus on getting the best results that we can get and attack these batters the way that you feel most comfortable. But now is that time of year where, as we saw him fluctuate in triple A, it's okay if he fluctuates at the big league level because he also doesn't have the pressure nor expectation at this juncture in the year, which he had last year rushed up to the bigs in a playoff push and expected to be this team saving grace. I mean, that was ridiculous. So at least there's, you know, a bit more of a, I think a calmer environment for Jonah to seamlessly come in, do what he needs to do to focus on his game. And then we'll call it that on the 2026 season. Yeah. And I, this is the time to experiment for me now. You don't want to go too far where if it doesn't work well, it impacts his confidence. Right. I think there's a fine line with this. There's a fine line here in September, but this is the time for him to experiment at the major league level. You know, he got out of this start very well. He bounced back over the last couple of innings. Now you can try to see what you can do more with that pitch mix. And that's going to be very interesting to me where I want it to go next with you is I'm very curious if Tong stint here, this latest can change what the Mets need this winter. We are going to constantly be looking at some off-season talk, right? Because if Jonah Tong looks like a legitimate 2027 rotation piece, let's say we finished the season and you and I are sitting here and we're like, Hey, he's made some adjustments. We're liking what we're seeing with the pitch mix. Things are looking pretty good for him. Does that make signing the ACE, which I know the Mets fan base would like to see. And we'll get to that too. Does that make signing an ACE less important? If you see good things out of Jonah Tong or more important, where are you on that? I don't want to put too much on this young man. And like, he's got to do this for, you know, to decide what the Mets do in their off season. But I do think it's fair. If you come out of this month and say, okay, he's a legitimate rotation piece. It might think a little bit about how differently the Mets might approach this winter. Where are you on that? Are we able to lump in signing and trades, or do you want to stick with solely signing? Cause there's, I have a different point. I have a different stance on solely signing versus if we were adding trades into this equation, we're going to get to a couple of free agents after this that I want. Well, one could be a free agent after this trades are listen, everything better be on the option for Mr. David Stearns here. So, so yes, trade trades. I'll hold my opinion on the, on that player too, for a second. Cause I know I'll just say that there is a different point of view that I have when looking at signing in the market and addressing the ACE role, then trading. And I think a big factor behind that is one who's available in like how deep is the market for said types of talent versus the trade market. And to exactly what are the Mets investing in when it comes to certainty. So it's really has a lot more to do for me as to how polished of a profile would that individual be. And because Jonah's on, he could look like the best thing since sliced bread for the remaining month of the year will not change the fact that the Mets have to add another starter in this rotation that can front it. And it's not that no McLean isn't an ACE already. Cause he absolutely is. It's not the fact that Zach Thornton can't be a viable two or three because he absolutely can. It's not the fact that Christian Scott can't look like he's continuing to trend upward the way that he most certainly has. And now Jonah Todd, the Mets have a four-headed horseman of a true homegrown group. They haven't had in a decade since guys like Matt Harvey, Noah Syndergaard, Jacob DeGrom, Steven Matz, you know, and we're just naming a few there. I'm probably there's one more in that mix I'm blanking on at the moment. I said, Syndergaard, Harvey, DeGrom, Matz, Wheeler. Can't forget wheels. He was hurt a lot of the time, you know, in the early goings with the Mets. And I know Wheeler was part of the Carl's Beltron trade with the giants years ago. I know Noah came with Darnell as part of the RA Dickie deal. It doesn't change the fact that they developed here. They were homegrown talents here, in my opinion. So as much as I love Tom, I think you still need to add. So when we talk about adding decks, please enlighten me. Who do you have in mind? Well, let me ask you one other thing before we just just put a pin in that. Okay. As much as you said, as much as you love, love Tom, you believe that the Mets still need to add. And it's interesting that you just referenced the last exciting generation of young Mets pitchers to come up through the farm system. Right. And, you know, like you said, some were through trades, but yes, they were developed here. And I agree with you. Is some of your concern or reason for saying that, which is mine, I'm going to be honest, this only to me, there's so many young pitchers that the Mets can realistically put into a rotation and then actually content. If you're talking about contending in 2027, you can't bank on four out of your five starters being young pitchers in that rotation, right. Where they've only got a year or two of major league experience. That's a lot to ask. I know everybody would love it. They'd love to see it pan out that way. I just think that's a lot to ask. And for me, it would be a reason to have pause for cause. And that I would go to the point that you made, which is okay. Yeah. You got to go bolster this rotation with maybe somebody that's a little bit more proven somebody that's got the profile of, and I like making this distinction, ace or a frontline starter. Cause I think there's a difference between the two. You got to go get that is your reason that you just don't want to bank on the youth that much in the rotation. Cause that's my concern. I wouldn't do that. It's pretty simple. Zach's every single year for this Mets team, we've been banking on like absurd levels of uncertainty. And it would be great if we could go into a year where they at minimum have put someone in that position that gives you greater certainty than what even Freddie Peralta was as a profile heading of the year, which again is kind of a tall task considering the fact that Freddie was only one of nine starters or so in major league baseball or the past three years that pitched around 30 starts per season, give you 170 plus innings to like a three and a half year. Right? So it wasn't even like Freddie didn't make sense on paper because outside of the lack of length, he gives you in a start, he made all the sense in the world and it still did not work out whatsoever. So it really comes down to a specific type of profile here, but yeah, I mean, listen, no one's been awesome. Love that. No one needs to continue to be awesome because as soon as no one, for whatever reason, God forbid to say not awesome, what is your rotation look like then? Cause that's your true leading horse. Zach Thornton has been great, but God forbid, if he goes through any sophomore slumps next year, that's a problem. You're banking on him the entire time. You know, that's why having certainty is a big deal, Zach. So when we talk about adding certainty, yep. What, what comes to mind for you? Well, look, when you look, when you're talking about free agents and you're talking about the top of the list, we got to talk about three school. There's no way you can't talk about him. He is going to be the number one free agent pitcher on this market. This, let me also be clear. This is not a great picture market for starting free, excuse me, free agent market for starting pitchers. It's not okay. This is, if you're looking for a lot of sexiness here in terms of free agent, you're not going to get it. Tariq school bull is going to be number one on the list on all free agents. He's going to be the number one, uh, for starting pitchers. He's won the past two AL Cy Young awards. Look, he started this month with a sub three ERA. He's now at the Dodgers. We know what money the Dodgers have, but Steve Cohen and the Mets have money and they should have something to say. Again, we are taking in the fact that we do not know what's going to happen with the baseball season next year too. That's it. Here's the thing, David, your boy, David Stearns, my boy, your boy. Yes. This is all, this is all, this is all tongue in cheek. This is all tongue in cheek to make Ward. You feel good. I generally agree with his pitching philosophies on where he will go to sign a free agent pitch. He usually would kill, break the bank and give a long-term contract for a guy that's in the start of his prime mid twenties, 25, 26, generally not going to do that for a guy 30 plus three school bull 30. We know that your boy is averse to long-term contracts for pitchers of his age is Tariq school bull. This is the question 40. And I think a lot of Mets fans would say, should he be the Mets number one priority this off season to go out and get to most of this rotation? And is he the pitcher that is worth breaking the David Stearns rules for? Cause this is his rule. He usually is not going to give a long-term deal to a guy like that school was going to be looking for the long-term deal. He's not going to take a short-term deal and you should not. Let's start with the ladder. What you just said regarding breaking David Stearns is rules. I think the Mets have all the reason in the world to break some of those rules, given what feels like we've been just bamboozled over the past year and a half. Yeah. Like, like we're, we're allowed to have this. You might not love this David, but you know, we didn't love signing Frankie Montas initially. Right. We didn't love heading into the season, having the roster completely the way that it was. I liked a lot of the moves and I'm not sitting here saying that I don't, because a lot of people will say, Oh, word. He's a flip-flopper and things of that nature. I'm like, opinions change when results change. That's how it always goes. I'm not going to continue to advocate to have certain players on my team and they're not performing well, but I'll have a piece of the prior and they were awesome prior. Why would it not? You know what I mean? It's just, it's as simple as that. But yeah, I think we, I think we have to break some rules or bend some rules a little bit. That'll make David a bit more comfortable. And Tarek Scoble, I think is absolutely an exception to that. Now my Tarek Scoble opinion is going to continue to likely be ever changing where it is currently at the time of us talking in September 8th, 2026 is that I would love him to front man this rotation. However, I see such a world where it fails miserably of a move for the New York. I mean, I mean, that's just, and that's, and that's more, I think it's the Mets fan in me as well as now having covered the team for over half a decade, we've been through a lot of these trial and errors of like big name signings, big name moves, and they haven't necessarily went the way that we wanted them to. And putting that trust in David Stearns to be that guy, to be that acquisition is also a bit of a tall task, just given the nature of where things have been. But Scoble is the greatest certainty and an ACE caliber starter in this market. And if you're the Mets, if you're Steve Cohen, and this is potentially your last chance to flex your financial muscle to the extent that you've been able to, or the past half decade, I think you need to take advantage of that. You know, this, this might be your most prime opportunity because we're talking daughters here. Mark Walter, the majority owner for that organization is dealing with a federal investigation. Cause that's what happens when you fraudulently fund your clubs and do this whole reign with your insurance money. While that is going on, the angels have perfectly swooped in with new ownership, taken out already Marino, and I brought in the crunk, the crunky family, if I'm not mistaken, but also on the Rams that own the avalanche that own arsenal that own others. One more than nuggets. They own a lot of very good organizations. I've had a recent championship success. They're going to spend Terrence. Scoble has literally been on record already saying how, like, I believe that people that maybe initially did not want to go play for the angels are now going to want to go play for the angels because of the environment change, the championship pedigree that comes with that ownership group and their dollars that they're going to spend. They're technically wealthier than Steve Cohen, even though the funds are different, they're making a lot of that revenue through the streams of income from the, uh, from the respective teams doesn't change the fact that they got like, I think a one and a half to $2 billion more on Steve currently speaking. So it changes the dynamic. It's not as much Mets daughters as the angels are now going to be and this conversation too. So I don't know what that's going to entail come the off season. It's going to be, it's, I think it's going to be bananas, but Tarik is a guy that the Mets would be foolish not to do everything in their power to try to land because signing a player is a guarantee where you're just giving up dollars and potentially like a compensation pick or something. When it comes to trades comes to, we've seen trail here. We're dealing with a guy that's going to win MVP this year in the national league because of a trade that failed essentially right from the inception of five years ago for Zach Scott and the same New York Mets organization. So that's my stance on it right now. I'm all for it by a hundred percent. This I'm, I'm, I had that pessimistic code on me decks. I'm, I'm, I'm hoping for the best, but expecting the worst. Look for me, I, again, I said, I generally, generally, and again, everybody, there's no flip flopping. You have the right to change your opinion when you get new information, right? You, you have the right to do that. I can have an opinion on something or agree with a philosophy. And then I could get new information and say, I don't agree with that philosophy anymore. It doesn't make me a flip-flopper. It makes me a smart person, be an idiot. Somebody who just stands on business for no reason. You don't want to do that. Yeah. Well, there's nothing to just, it would be like me standing on wanting because when the PCA trade initially happened all those years ago, I was live streaming. My initial reaction was I was bummed to see PCA trade. Cause I knew he was a big deal. People were concerned about the BAP. I'm like, he's so young. Like we just drafted him a year ago topic. This feels stupid after Kellanek like that, that upset in me. Cause that was at a time where Jerry Kellanek was still a coveted piece of the puzzle for Seattle, you know, in that buildup. So I was upset on that front, but I was ecstatic on the hobby bias Frank. So I was always been, I was always been a hobby bias fan. And the thought of him playing with Lindor as they did in team Puerto Rico, that was sick to me. So in the short term, I enjoyed it. Cause I liked hobby. He was awesome here besides the thumbs down notion that I know fans still are upset about to a degree. And then he walked after Billy upwards. So we'll give you a four year, $120 million contract. He said, no, thanks. I'm going to take, I believe it's six years or has an option to get to five or six years with the tigers. And he did that. But that is a move in hindsight where he had no ----. I'm very upset that that happened. That's one of the worst moves and that's history. And they traded, they traded, they got rid of Tom Seaver at one point they traded Nolan Ryan before he hit his peak. That's bad moves. And this PCA move is already like top five. Right. And sometimes, listen, sometimes that stuff happens with prospects and whatnot. And, and what I'll say here is look, I could lie. I would prefer giving a longer term contract to but here's my thing. Are you trying to win or not? We say this all the time to win or not? At this point right now, the goal is to win a world series. It's been 40 years, it's been 40 years, but now you're just trying to see your team get back to the playoffs. That is all you, that's all the Mets fans want. Look what the Mets fans have been talking about the last two months. Oh, this team is fun to watch. You know, I like that they're playing hard. It's so much better than the first half of the season. Yeah, get it. You want to see your team have a chance, but you know, all that fun stuff, that's going to be out the window in 2027, assuming there's baseball. It is going to be about, are you winning or not? So here's my thing. We have seen the Mets historically spend to get elite talent here to flush. They went and did that with Juan Soto. If you were willing to spend historically to land one of the best hitters of this generation in Juan Soto, which I think anybody would have done and would do it again. Elite talent doesn't come around that often is the point I'm making. And when it does, and if you're serious, serious is the word I'm using here about trying to win. You have to go get it. You can't be. So what's the word you've used? Proactivity has been the word of this show throughout this season. And the other word I've used is you can't be so rigid. We've talked about this a lot. You can't, you can't half-ass something that needs the full hundred percent effort. No, can't do it. Great, great point there. No half-assing, no half-stepping, either you're in or you're out. You got to go and go for it. Are you going to be a true player for Tarik Scouble? Are you dipping your toe in the water? Cause I could tell from you already, I could tell from your energy, sir, you're not here for the dipping in the water, this off season, dipping your toe in the water. You're not here for this, right? And here's, and here's a thing, Dex. If they just dip their toe in the water of Tarik Scouble, it better be because they're going out and they're trading for an ace that was maybe younger, a little controllable that yes, you're going to give up a King's ransom for, but you just bolster your trade. You just bolster your farm at the deadline. That positions you to be able to do something along those lines, right? Sure. Have the Mets flex that beyond trading for Freddie Peralta really? No. And look what they gave up for Freddie. No. And, and definitely not for a pitcher and not for anybody else. Now, am I against using assets? Like you're saying, possibly in a trade to go get a younger, I won't say ace, but frontline starter. No, I'm not against that, but you know, it'd also be nice to maybe keep some of your farm system intact case. You need to make some other moves after that and spend the money and not be so rigid to your rules. So for me, if the same logic applied for Juan Soto, and I know there's a difference in age and years, cause I know somebody's gonna say, whoa, Dex Juan Soto was in his mid twenties. That's different from Tarik Scouble. I got you, but are you going to find a better picture on the market anytime soon that if you can't trade for, because I don't want to, I don't want to hear this. You can't come back with the mid tier. This is the time you have to fortify the staff. You have to empower the young pitchers on the staff that we're talking about. And what better way to do it than to have a Tarik Scouble in here and have these young pitchers get behind and take some pressure off of Nolan McLean, take some pressure off of Christian Scott, take some pressure off of Jonah Tom, who we just talked about. If he's going to be in this rotation in 2027, having a frontline guy that you can pay and not give up anything for, you got to do it. You got to apply the same logic. You went and got yourself an elite hitter and outfielder, not defensively in Juan Soto, go get yourself an elite pitcher who is on the market. But here's the thing. Some people might say Dex and Wardy, Hey, I don't know if you should go that way. That's a lot of money. Maybe there's a smarter alternative. Can I throw another name at you, sir? Here's another one. Go ahead. Now this person could, it's not guaranteed to be a free agent, could be a free agent. He does have the ability to opt out of his deal with the Padres. That is Michael King. I would have liked the Mets to have got Michael King last off season. I was on the record of saying that I wouldn't have minded him. He's probably going to be the second best free agent pitcher starter on the market behind Scouble. Would you go get Michael King? And would that make you, is that going to make you feel good if you don't get type school? No, let's start there. That's an easy, not a chance in hell. As a matter of fact, Michael Kane, I think is, is a far greater likelihood of what the Mets will likely turn out with as we get into 20, because I think you're thinking that he fits into the rigidity that we've seen from David Stearns. It's a David Stearns kind of signing is what, what you could see him being like, not saying that David's a bad option. Yeah. And when you look at a couple of things for Michael, because the Mets have shown interest in Michael King, this, this wouldn't be the first time that they did that decks, right? This would be the first of, you know, they'd done this last off season. They did it one other year as well. And Michael and a roughly 170, 170 innings a season as a three-year rate flat, the expected numbers aren't great though, which is not surprising because Michael's dealt with ailment on and off. That's let's not forget that he had a Cape for nine, the worst of his career as a starter, this far at 7.7 at a walks, but I have three and a half. I think Michael Kane, while he would be a nice ad, you take so much more risk with him because he's a bit of a ticking time He's not nearly as much of a certainty in health. And that's why his contract is structured the way that it is with the Padres. That's the reason why he initially signed with them for the AV that he did. And that's a bit backloaded the way that he is depending on if he opts out or not, or I'm sorry, it's not overly backloaded. That's like he likely will opt out. But Michael Kane is someone who I think makes sense. When you look in New York market, there's the client home similarity as another former Yankee reliever turn starter having success, especially Michael Kane has been very good in his career, but he would not be a needle mover the way that the Mets would need Google to be a needle mover. He would be someone that like went right as your middle rotation type starter, kind of a similar elk to either, you know, at times not the sharpest, no McLean, or, you know, a solid Christian Scott day. It's going to kind of fall in that category where, you know, yes, he might be able to handle the market, but is that enough for Mets rotation next year? Can they bank on four, either rookies or sophomores and one veteran who doesn't have the safest track record, a bill in health over a Tarik Scoble, who is a back-to-back Siena award winner is on his way to being one of the top pitchers in the game yet again, this year has he peaked already? Absolutely. And that's something that fans need to understand and buy into. You're not buying in Tarik Scoble as the guy who's been exactly the way that he has in the track record. Yes, because that's why he's getting the payout. He is, but you need to look at it from the stance of how is he going to project as he goes from age 31 to say 38, right? And that's what the Yankees did with Max free. And the first half of that contract for Max free and the Yankees will be swimmingly. The second half will likely not be that way unless he's truly a fine wine. As he gets more into his mid to late thirties, it's not impossible, but it's not as likely. That's why it's very important that when you go after guys like this, you preferably want guys that can handle, not a reliance on velocity. Another thing that Scoble obviously depends and relies on. So as Scoble gets older and gets into his early to mid thirties, how is he going to be able to adapt? Does he have a game plan to sustain the velocity or when it starts to trickle down, emphasize more of his off-speed and breaking pitches, right? Like these are game plans. I like or whoever has luxury of signing him to a long-term deal entering next season. That's very important, but it doesn't change the fact that even with the risk of losing a guy like Scoble for a year with Tommy John, the investment is still so worthwhile because if he is healthy, you really can't get much better than that, especially with having the youth movement that they have around him. Just the snarl, the personality that Turk has on the mound, pairing that with a guy like McLean, who has his own moxie, who loves to puff out his chest. The Mets can really build. Christian Scott does it too. When he gets a little piss, we see the fire on the mound. They have something here. And I think they're just truly that one piece away from heading into next season saying, Oh, the New York Mets are effing around. They have one of the better, better rotations on all the national leagues. I don't think they're totally far off as is, but that piece has to be a needle mover, like you said. And while I like Michael King and he's a very good pitcher. And I think on a really good day in your rotation, he's a very good number two to three starter for sure. He's not a needle mover. You don't want to see the bargain basement hunting. I don't want my calling. Michael King bargain basement hunting feels a little strong, but you get what I'm saying. If you got it, it isn't comparison to Tara. It's all relative, right? No, it's all relative. No, no, no, no. To be fair. But in comparison, as you said to, to Rick Scoble, you have to go get the needle mover. If you can, if you're that serious about winning, you're trying to take some pressure off these young guys. You got to go get the needle mover. And I do think he's a better investment. That doesn't mean to your point that there aren't questions about Tarik Scoble because there are right. There's no perfect signing where there are no questions at all whatsoever. But if you're really trying to go win, go get the guy that can anchor your rotation. That is a bona fide ace. And I don't think there's that many aces around this frontline starters. This is an ace. This is a bona fide, prove it two times. I young award winning ace. There's no doubt about that. You got to go get it. Let's close with this 40. I'll make you David Stearns. Your boy again, David Stearns. Well, you told me both of us agree. We're going Scoble over King, right? We're not, we're not going to cheap route here. If you want to go get Scoble, go get your guy, right? We do also, we'd like to see in this month where Jonah Tong will belong in this rotation for next year. We won't know. We got to see more from him, whether he can compete for the fourth or fifth spot next year, whether he'll be starting in triple eight. We'll know by the end of this month. I have two questions for you. Sure. I need to be close. Even if the, whether the Mets get a Tarik Scoble or not, how many young pitchers are you comfortable with them carrying into the starting rotation next year? And which of these Mets young Mets pitchers that we've seen, do you trust the most to be part of, I don't say what a championship caliber rotation for this Mets team going forward? Who's the pitcher you trust the most and how many young pitchers should the Mets carry into the rotation for 2027? Starting with the ladder, no McLean, obviously don't need to think twice about that. How many pitchers I'm comfortable with heading into the season currently speaking, I would say we're at right around three and the comfort, the comfort changes a little bit with each one, but I would say we're at three just in the sense that like, I know Christian Scott is going to continue to climb as a starter. I'm really bullish on Christian. I always have. I think back to when he wasn't even like, he still had his partially toward UCL and was putting up the best minor league numbers outside of Paul Skeens at the time you first call up. Like, I'm like, you don't just do that unless clearly you have the stuff and especially the way that his pitches are deceptive off the mound because it was high rising fastball. There's a lot to like there. Zach Thornton. Honestly, my only concern was Zach isn't the fact that he got, you know, rocked in his latest outing. He buzzed his head after the fact. So talk about making a quick change for Zach Thornton has had the perfect hair all year has one bad out. He just buzzes it right off. So I kind of, I kind of rock with that energy. It's like, if you have the mustache on it, like Alonzo would shave it off like mid game. Sometimes he was like striking out at everything. He's like, I got to do something. Zach just needs to not have the, the stereotypical sophomore slump. And my comfortability is there with him. I really like Zach Thornton. Go ahead. I like, no, I was going to say, I like your number three. I think anything more than that maybe has me uncomfortable. Now, if you told me it was four young pitchers and Tarik scuba is, is leading the rotation. I do feel different. Right. Knowing you have a guy every fifth day to take the ball and can be your stopper. If there's a two game skid, three game skid or something of that nature that feels good, but you got to have that guy three feels like the right number. I'm with you on that. I also agree. Nolan McClain is the guy I'm trusting the most to be here when the Mets have a championship caliber rotation. I'm not saying that he's completely untouchable, but I think he's as close to untouchable. The young pitchers in the rotation that you would have this all being said is you can get excited about Jonathan and what we saw on Monday. There still is more work to be done. Woody. And I know this, but I don't think this is going to change a damn thing about what we talk about in this off season, which is if the Mets are going to be serious about winning folks, if they're going to be serious about winning, they got to go get themselves an ACE. They need an ACE. You want to help these young pitchers. You want to see them thrive. I like wordy and very high and Christian Scott. I have been, I like his mix-up. I like it. I like his makeup. Excuse me. I like the way he's able to mix his pitches. I like his deception. I like the fortitude he's shown bouncing back from the surgery this season. I think there's a lot to build on there, but they got to go get themselves an ACE fan. That's it. That's all. That's all that we learned from, from, from hearing this episode. So while I'm excited about Jonathan, I'm excited about what we saw on Monday. I'm very excited to see what he does in his next start and you know, how he's able to mix up pitches. But if we want to help these young pitchers out here with the Mets, got to go get them an ACE man. So they can feel good about it. This is no different than any other heading of the off season. I feel like we've talked about either as talking heads, fans in general, every year, there's always an emphasis. You got to add to the rotation. You got to get an ACE. And every single year, the Mets have been falling short of that by like one piece. It was like under Cohen. It's feels like every year they're just one guy away. They've gotten close with guys like Yamamoto and others over the years, but they have still to miss. And when they finally got their guy last year, it wasn't their guy. It wasn't my guy. It wasn't your guy. It's it's the Tampa Bay rays guy now, apparently. So well, it's all I got for you. This will be for another episode, but some people might talk about bringing that guy back. We will talk about that. I know that's going to come up. I didn't even want to bring that up in this episode. That'll come from another little teaser. Yeah. Well, we got a lot to say on New York Mets, potentially Mets again. We'll leave it at that. But this is going to do it for this episode of Straight Outta Flushing. Let us know in the comments, what did you think about Jonah Tong's first start of 2026? What do you think the Mets need to do to bolster their pitching rotation this off season? Should they go get a Tarik Scouble? Should they sign someone like Michael King? Should they do something else? We didn't even mention trades. We only talked about free agents. There'll be more on trading for pitchers this off season that we will talk about on future episodes of Straight Outta Flushing. That's going to do it for this episode. That is my guy. Should be your guy too. Tyler Ward, aka Wardy. I'm Dexter Henry. We'll catch you next time on another edition of Straight Outta Flushing. Peace, everybody.