Shams Gives Bam His Flowers & Mike Miller Has A Message For Ja Morant's Doubters

I wouldn't be a report if I didn't ask. Jah Summer. What's the Summer look like? This guy's freaking good. He's really good at his job. I saw he was cleared for 5-on-5. I'm telling you guys right now, Jah Moran is coming for all the work this year. All of it. The OGs are back. We are at Summer League in Vegas. Breaking news. The plug. You know what? I'm sick of you being the breaking news. We're freaking breaking news. The plug. Hobbs is here. The plug. Talk to me, man. I appreciate you coming in. I appreciate you guys having me on. Obviously, Mike, I've known you for a minute now. That's right. You know, we've got to give some shout-outs. Dan Frank is someone that first told me, you know, that's my guy. You know, look out for Mike as a player near the end of your career. Now, Donnie, you know, you've got a good crew on UD. I don't know you as well, but I've been a fan from afar, and now you're taking on this new media mission that you're on, educating, providing support, guidance to players behind the scenes as well. So, a lot of respect for both of you. Appreciate you. Appreciate you being on here, man. Appreciate you guys having me on. I know you're busy. Always. If this was last week, I would have had to politely decline. I love you guys. Respect, though. Be honest here. But we would have rain-checked it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rain-checked it. Well, I want to know. I want to know the Shobbs before Shobbs. So, tell me how you got to this point. Did you know this is what you want to do? Because it'd be a lie if you said you did, because the reality of the situation is life changed, and social media and the way you put out messages has changed. I know you started in a different way, but talk to me about how that was. We'll talk about where you're at now, but I want to hear about how you got here. Yeah, growing up, I wanted to be where you were, where you guys were. I wanted to be in the NBA, but obviously that's not the reality for most of the world. I mean, it's a 1% population to make it to the NBA, right? But that was my goal. I got cut very early in high school, sophomore year, and from there... Oh, you and MJ got a lot in common. I know, but I wasn't MJ. See, I knew my role. The moment I got cut, I wasn't going to be MJ and make it to the NBA or make it to varsity or whatever. I was done. But I loved the NBA, and I loved writing as well. So, it was like really combining both passions together and figuring out exactly what my niche was going to be. And I think when you think about trying to be around the NBA, it was very specific for me. I loved the NBA. I wanted to be around the NBA in any way, whether it was writing, being an agent, being in the front office. But something about writing always got me, and it was like the transaction of the game, the behind the scenes. How did UD make it the way he made it? That's right. I loved the stories behind the game, and that's what attracted me to writing. And I started writing, and one thing led to the other. And so, long story short, it went from school newspaper to blogs. I spent three years at Yahoo. Then I went to The Athletic and Vertical. I was at The Vertical. Then I went to The Athletic. Then Stadium. And now I'm at The Athletic Stadium, FanDuel TV, and, you know, just with your other gator boy, Chandler Parsons. That's right. So shout out Chandler Parsons. But it's definitely been a process. Definitely nothing that happened overnight, but I've been really doing this since I was sophomore in high school. I was like 15, 16 years old. I mean, you had to love it to do it for free. At first, you was writing for the Bulls. Well, I was writing for school newspapers, then RealGM.com. Okay, RealGM. Actually, a subsidiary of the Chicago Tribune called Chicago Now. I was literally doing a Bulls blog for them, obviously for free. Then RealGM.com for free. Paid my own way. The first finals I actually covered, 2013, Heat Spurs, shout out my aunt, actually lives in Miami. So I only went to the four games in Miami. I obviously went to seven. I went to those in 2013. Yeah, that was... You guys won. That was the reality show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So... Yeah, talk about it. We can talk about it. I talk about my most favorite finals ever. For me, it was that game when Ray made that shot, because that was my first finals. That was my first, like, in-person moment. So that was my most favorite moment. Ours, too, is one of them. But I was paying my own way. And then Summer League 2013 was big for me, too, because that was the first time I was able to be around people, engage with team people, agents, players. And I was deer in the headlights, didn't know anyone. Knew a few people by email or text, but, you know, it's a totally different beast when you meet someone. So when you first start, when you first start, like, how are you weighing through the... Right? Because in your business, you can't be wrong. Yeah. Right? So are you ever concerned, A, about being wrong? And then how many boxes do you have to check before you actually put your stuff out there? I think that's... To me, it's interesting, because when you guys put something... You can't be wrong. Otherwise, it's not Shams. Right? So talk to me about that. Oh, we got breaking news. Yeah, it is. You just got traded. No. It's nothing. I wish it was breaking news. You want to get me out of here. No, I don't. You want to trade me to another pub head. I do not. You want this show to yourself, don't you? No, I don't. I couldn't do it by myself. You know Kane killed Abel. You know that, don't you? No, no, no. I asked Sylvester. It's not true. He has not been traded. Let me tell you something. He's still on OG's podcast. I got great self-awareness. I can't do it without him. Unconfirmed. So, for sure. I mean, that's for sure. You know, being accurate. Being 100 percent. Nothing can come out until you feel that way. And there definitely are boxes. I mean, I'm 99 percent on something. It's not going to go on. I mean, I've lost a ton of stories being like 98 percent or 99 percent. But that is most important for sure. Obviously, being first is what you strive for. But being accurate is the most important. And of course, there's going to be moments where I think now more than ever it's like weeding through the B.S. of it. I think early on it was a matter of like, figuring out who to trust. Who not to trust. Any businesses you get into, whether it's this, your business, my business. Like, the excitement of getting something done when you're young gets you in trouble sometimes. So, like, give me an example of when you posted something or put something out there that was wrong or your biggest wrong story. Those are hard. I've been wrong a lot. I mean, I think the big ones are things that could change at any given moment. Or, you know, little contract details where you might not have put in, you know, one more call to actually figure out what this detail is in this contract. You know, I remember one time. I can't even remember the player. But someone signed like a four-year deal. They couldn't sign a four-year deal. It was only a three-year deal. But like something small like that. That's not bad. But it's for sure something that eats at you, you know, in any given moment. And I think that's the biggest thing. When you're young in any industry. I started at this the sophomore year of high school. Not at this, I guess, quote, unquote, level but to some level. And the biggest thing is not being short-sighted and not taking shortcuts. And these are relationships. I mean, a lot of my relationships are relationships I've had for years and years and years now. Right? And those are the people that you trust. Those are the people you rely on. And it's one of those things you cultivate over time. It's not anything that happens overnight. It's not like stopping and reminding yourself that this is not something that just happens overnight. And I think that's something that every young person. Definitely I've battled with it. I mean, I hear you keep going back to, you know, when you were 15 years old. But, you know, I was reading up a couple of things. And, you know, your parents wanted another path for you. Way different path. They wanted you to be a doctor or a lawyer. Now this was written for me. My daddy used to roll the ball out and drop me off at the park. I'll be back when the sun come down. You know what to do. But your parents actually had a different path for you. So how was that? Like this is what.. How is that funny? Because you said I'll be back for you. I'll be back when the sun come down. You better get buckets. You know how it go. You know what I'm saying? It was written. But your parents had a different thing in mind for you. You know what, my dad actually did roll the ball out. You know, he let me play basketball. He prevented me from playing ball. But, I mean, for sure, definitely, you know, I think it was a cultural thing. You know, having.. It wasn't anything negative. My mom wanted something stable for me. Right? Like this path even that I chose, like it wasn't.. There was no guarantee. I had no relationship to make it a guarantee. But it was something that I was really passionate about. So I can't say, you know, there's definitely some like are you sure you want to do this. Even when I was having a little bit of success. It's like it's not too late to change your major. You know, like you can still go into bio. You can still do something in that lane. And I think now it's like I always.. When I meet doctors and when I meet especially brown doctors and they're like, you know, like, you know, I'm a big fan of you. I'm like, you know what's crazy? My mom is probably your biggest fan. Like not even mine. But she supports me. And I think the support is the biggest thing. She let me.. To me, like I think about she let me drive her car when I was going to Milwaukee or Indiana to go cover games. Like she did that for me. She gave me enough resources to where I can go and cover games and go get flights to Miami to stay with my aunt and go cover the finals when I was 19 years old or go to Vegas for Summer League. So to me, for sure, she wanted a different path. And I think in an ideal world, you know, I went and got my Ph.D. But at the end of the day, I think now my mom is at least off my back. Hell yeah. You said one word. And this is what I've been.. I was thinking about this earlier. You said the word relationships. What you have and what you do is so.. It has to be driven off relationships in a sense, right? How do you create those? I don't want to know who the plugs are. You keep that to yourself. But how do you create those relationships to where people trust you with information? Because ain't nobody just coming up telling you.. It has to be built. You have to build these relationships for people to talk to you and give you this information and trust you sometimes, right? That's a big word right there, trust. Trust, faith. I think equity is a big thing. Okay. And I think those values and for me it's like talking to people when you might not need them, right? Yes. The last thing I want to do is reach out to someone. Like a year goes by and I haven't spoken to this person. Like I feel awful, you know. That's the worst feeling in the world. So reaching out to people when you don't just need them and checking up on them. But trust is the biggest thing. And I learned that early on. The moment you burn a relationship or if a person tells you, you know, sometimes you have to sit on stuff. Sometimes there are moments where contextually their perspective is very important. And when you don't get that other perspective, when you don't get their side of a situation, it could definitely ruffle feathers. And no one is perfect. I'm not perfect. But making sure as much as I possibly can, checking that box in any relationship. I think trust is the biggest thing. And having their faith. And that then allows them to be more open with you and I think giving you, you know, information when it matters. Well, I've seen you look at your phone. It's a two-way street, too. It's a two-way street, too, though, you know. Yeah, that's right. Being in a position where you can, if you can't help someone out or if you have a tidbit of information as well. It felt like he was looking at me when he said it's a two-way street. He the one. I'm just saying. We don't mind. Hey, hey, hey. He said, I'm just saying. You know what that means in the streets. I've seen you look at that phone a bunch. Talk to me about the famous screen time. That's crazy. It's only 24 hours in a day. I want to know how this is possible. How is your screen time? What did you see? I've seen amazing numbers. But, like, how do you sleep? It said 21 hours and 34 minutes. Some people say that's sickening. He said it should have been more. It should have been more. Hold on. It's the first day of free agency. Deals can happen. You know, Paul George's deal happened at 2 in the morning. So, you know, deals can happen at any moment. So, did you sleep or did you have your phone? How did that play out? I slept a couple hours. I don't mean to get in your personal business. Are you married? Because you got worse hours than a cop. All the cops I know are divorced. You got worse hours than a cop. I would be divorced. But thankfully I'm only with my family. So, my family. See, it would. All the cops I know are divorced because of their hours. There's no dinner that goes by. If I'm at a family dinner and I don't leave the table, I think they feel like something's wrong with me. You know? So, like, there's.. So, it's understood. It's got to be explained. It is what it is. But you're right. It's with the significant other that it could be a problem. But I don't know. I don't know anything about that right now. You know? So.. Keep the fight. I've been divorced three times over, you know. So, hold on. What's the most your screen hours have been? I mean, I think the one that people have caught me on, probably that was the highest. 21. But to be honest, people are.. You know what's crazy? I want to see your screen time, Mike. Mine's not 21 hours. I know some people in the industry that definitely have as much screen time as me because they're on the phone as much as me. So.. I'm on the phone a ton. There's no question. But I also sleep six hours. He's on the phone. He's getting views. You might be close. No, but I sleep six hours at least. Lift has something in his contract. He has to be on the phone at least 16 hours a day. Listen, when you drink as much beer as him, you sleep six hours. Your six hours is all throughout the day. You get a three-hour nap around two. You get another nap around ten. You see why I don't like him? He's really grilling you right now. It's bad. That's my dog. But it's, I mean, it's part of the.. If I couldn't do it or if I felt like it was too much or I felt like it was hindering anything else in my life, you know, I couldn't do it. Right? But, you know, this is.. You look like you in shape though. You need to do. You in shape. You're working out because you ain't just providing information to eat. Yeah, you look like you're in shape. The one hour that you're spending on the phone, you know, you got to spend it somehow, right? I like it. You got to spend it somehow. So, give me the story that you broke, the biggest story you broke earlier where you're like, damn, I love. There's something that hooked you into this. Right? I know you loved it and you did it. But there's always some moment in anyone's career or life that they do where they're like, damn, I love this. So, the big story that you first broke. So, I'll give you two different examples. One, I think the biggest story, like, initially that I think people will be like, alright, this guy might be legit or there might be something more here. Luol Deng got traded from the Bulls to the Cavs January 2014. And I think I had like 700 followers that night. Went up to like 7,000 by the end of the night. And like, to me, it's like that was the night where I think or that was the moment I think the door kind of cracked just a little bit. So, 700 followers, you broke that story. Yeah. That's crazy. The door kind of cracked a little bit open. Right? To me, it was. And I've said this before. But it's like, what do you make of that moment? Right? Do you sit in complacency? Do you sit in that? Like, I'm trying to bust that door wide open and see what the possibilities are. It's endless possibilities. Next morning, I was driving to Milwaukee to go cover a Warriors Bucks game. This is Mark Jackson's last year with the Warriors. And I'm doing a one-on-one with Klay Thompson. Like, I was really on to the next. Yeah. Okay. And I think that mentality helped me a lot, like that on-to-the-next mentality. So, that was probably the one that I think gave me a great understanding of if you're going to be in this, like, it's on to the next at all times. And then 2020, just everything that happened in 2020 with COVID and not knowing what's going on. Like, you talk about vetting processes. Like, the night Rudy Gobert tested positive for COVID. Oh, my gosh. At The Athletic, we had, like, an hour and a half of, like, vetting. That was brutal. You know, like, that was a highly vetted story. And I think that night and just everything that happened that year, like, I didn't go to journalism school for that. But you have to be ready. You have to seize the moment. That's when a lot of people realize they ain't like their spouses. A lot of people had to find out the truth. A lot of people found out the truth during COVID. Speaking of divorce. A lot of people found out the truth. But listen, it's okay. Because, like, I understand we were joking about your hours. But I'm a little obsessed, too. Like, you got to be a little obsessed. Thank you, UD. Yes. If you want to be great at what you do, you got to be a little obsessed. So, I support your obsession. You know what I'm saying? So, you're joking about it, but you got to be obsessed. It's the only way you can be great at what you do. Hell, yeah. And it's a competitive field that you're in. So, I understand that. Just like basketball. Just like. Just like, UD, you went from undrafted to trying to make a roster. For 20 years. All-time leading rebounder. We can keep going. Backup. Three-time champion. Sixth man. Yes. Coming off the bench in this eighth-man role. Tenth man. Then you're a mentor. So, like, you're competitive, right? Like, if you just wanted to be a guy that played a couple years. And then, you know, Mike was the guy. He was a six. He's a six. Rookie of the year. You know, he had it. He had it all. He was the man. Six. That's a six. Obsessed, too. We went out there with one shoe and no back. That's what I'm saying. How many threes you made? One shoe and no back. He took that shoe and threw it. I made a couple of them. Come on, man. You got to be obsessed with this. He made a three with a shoe in his hand. That's crazy. Listen. The same. Let me tell you. We had to carry him to the locker room after the game. I laid him down in his locker. And I said, thank you for your contribution. And they put him in a casket. As y'all can hear, we're at the Summer League right now. So, Choms, tell me, like, biggest winners and losers this offseason. In your opinion. I think you have to say the Sixers are a big winner. Getting Paul George. I mean, they couldn't afford to strike out in this free agency. So, I think they're a big winner. And, like, the Mavericks. I mean, I do think when you think about that position that Clay Thompson is going to play, I mean, he's really just filling Tim Hardaway's role. And Tim Hardaway kind of became the odd man out in that environment. And Clay, I think, is going to fit perfectly there as the three man and someone that they're going to rely on. Championship pedigree. So, I think they had a big offseason as well. And, honestly, the Spurs. Like, getting CP3, getting HB. Yeah, I like that. In that rotation, like, it's crazy. And you guys have been a part of it. But, like, every year that goes on, the more I realize when one or two guys get plugged into a lineup or if they get hurt during the season, how much that affects the team. Yeah. I think even more on the San Antonio one, it's not even affecting the season as much. It's really affecting the growth and where Victor and them guys go. Because what you don't want is Victor getting used to getting his ass kicked. Yeah. Right? And being 21 seasons every year. He needs to see the maturity levels and what it actually is like winning and stuff. Because he's going to be, obviously, everyone at this table realizes he's going to be special. Yeah. What you don't want him to do is fall into that trap. Because it doesn't mean, just because you're special doesn't mean you're going to win. So, I like that San Antonio one for sure. I mean, OKC, you know, Hardenstein, getting Hardenstein, getting Caruso, those are two good guys. Caruso I really like. Doesn't even impact, like, their future. Yeah. They have all their drafts. They got a dozen first round picks to trade. They got a dozen swaps. They got everything to get any. If there's ever a star player that they want, if they want to go get Lowry marketing right now, they can go get Lowry marketing. But they like this direction of this team. And that's another guy who, you know, we'll see what happens. Got one more for you, Sean. We'll see what happens there. Biggest loser, though. One more, though. OK. Philadelphia also got Caleb Martin. Caleb Martin was a big guy. That was a big guy. It's hurting me still. I'm still in my feelings about that. Hold on a second, though. Can we talk about Caleb, though? Because I heard Caleb. We're talking about a guy who could easily have been. But I heard Caleb had 65 on the table and took 32. I wasn't there. I don't know nothing about that. I don't be in those rooms. But, I mean, it hurt that we lost him. And if that's what happened, then it sucks that we lost him when he took less money to go back to Philly with taxes and all that when he could have got 65. That was wild. I heard that. You talk about a guy who. I love Caleb Martin. With Kelly, with Oubre, now you got multiple guys that you can put on Tatum and Brown in a seven-game series, in a playoff series. And there's also a guy who you can't account for one game or two games where he might give you 17 to 20 points, like, on just random, you know, plays and different things like that, like he did for us. So, I love the Paul George pickup because Paul George shoot the clip about 52% on catch and shoot threes. That's what Philadelphia is struggling with. But I also love Caleb Martin. That's personal for me. Let me ask you this. Because out of curiosity. So, we know why Paul George ended up leaving the Clippers. Because they wouldn't give him that last year, right? Right. Ultimately, why was it that Clay left Golden State? I think there's more layers to that one. I think that one has a lot to do with principle. I think that one has a lot to do with how he felt with the organization over the last couple of years. You know, when you're someone that brought four championships there, big part of that, three for sure, like, they don't win those. I mean, they don't win any of those without Clay. But those three and then getting the fourth, you know, and then you see Wiggins get four years extension. Jordan Poole getting a four-year extension. You see J-Mon Green getting a four-year extension. And then it's your turn and the Warriors look at the marketplace and they offer him two years 48. And that's what I was told the offer was last year from the Warriors. And he felt like he deserved more years, more money. And I think you saw how his season developed. And I think there were a lot of feelings on both sides. But specifically for Clay, feeling slighted with the offer, feeling slighted with his role at different points, feeling like he wasn't given the stature that came with being Clay Thompson in that organization. And I think coming off the bench, you know, for a rookie and Brandon Podzemski and having your minutes fluctuating, I think that all played a part. And by the end of the season, I was told he was out. And I reported a few days from a free agency. He's not coming back. The decision was already made. This is going to be about where he's going to end up. And now he goes to Dallas. And he will be the guaranteed starter there. And he's going to be guaranteed, you know, whatever, it's 28, 30-plus minutes a night. And I think that was very important for Clay playing the minutes that he wants to play. And I'm told a lot of this was about principle and feeling slighted. I love Dallas. I love what they did this year. Obviously they shocked a lot of people. But having those two of the most dynamic guards in the NBA is helpful. It's going to be interesting, though, Clay, that Clay piece is going to be interesting there. And I do think obviously it's a huge upgrade for him. But he's used to playing a certain style of Golden State. It's pitch chase. It's all the way around. And now you're going to a place where it's ball-dominant guards, ball-dominant guards. So it's going to be – I'm telling you, that's not going to be the easiest. Also, it's a totally different environment. That's what I'm saying. It's not going to be the easiest transition that people are like, you know this. When you make – when we put that big three together, we started off our career there. It would be some dark nights when you're trying to figure it out. It's some dark nights. You know what I mean? Like you take Clay in that situation, and I'm glad he got what he wanted in the three years and the money. But it's going to be extremely different. And I don't care, starting, coming off the bench, I don't care what it is. To me, it's style of playing what you're accustomed to. Right? So it's going to be interesting. I'm very, very intrigued to see how that plays out. We're going to see. I like the fact that they got Jason Kidd coaching. I do too. That's what I think is going to help. I do too. But the reality of the situation is you are super successful doing it one way right now. Clay is not just a stop and stay in the corner. Now he's a lead at it. Don't get it wrong. What do you guys think about what the Warriors did though? Getting Buddy, getting Kyle Anderson. I love Buddy. Anthony Belden. I love Buddy. Buddy from down there in Miami. The Bahamas is just an extension of Miami. So I love Buddy. You just give him some cut salad. He don't like the cut. I don't think Golden State can be done. I think if you're serious about winning, they have to make a big move. And they're trying to get Larry Martin. I think they're going to. The problem is the West is hell-afire. It is only getting better. Mike, is that a – Look at this man. He can't stop working. No, I'm with you though. But to me, if you're going to be – and this is not anything anyone else hasn't said. Like Steph Curry has got so many years left, right, at this level. If you're going to try to do it one more time, you've got to go all in. Like you just have to. So it's going to be interesting. I don't think they're done. Sean, I got a question. Yeah. Orlando, KCP. Big guess. That was a team. Orlando was a team that I like. Mike represents Palo Banco. I know what the hell he going to say. But I like that pickup as well just because that's a young team. They can defend their asses off. You know what I'm saying? So I think that's a good pickup for them too, bringing in a guy that's won a championship, hold everybody accountable, championship expectations, all that different stuff like that. How do you think that helped them? They did exactly – I think very similar. You think about OKC and Orlando, they're on similar trajectories. But you think about what both of them did, they did nothing to disrupt what they have, right? Like they didn't trade away one of their cornerstone players. They didn't trade away a boatload of assets. They basically brought everyone back. They brought everyone back, and they brought in a really good veteran two-way player, makes threes. He's at, I mean, Lakers Impact Championship, Denver Impact Championship, and now going to Orlando, which kind of like OKC, you get two players that don't disrupt what you've got going on. There's no guarantee – Isaiah Hardenstein signs for 30 million a year. There's no guarantee he starts next to Chet Holgenren. You want Chet Holgenren to really embrace that five spot, but you pay him a little bit more and make him comfortable with coming off the bench potentially and being a really good backup for you and playing with Chet Holgenren down the stretch. And Orlando, KCP just slides right in as a starting shooting guard, and I think they have the pieces. No, Orlando does, and obviously I've dealt with them a ton, and I love dealing with them. But like we still got to address, in my opinion, Orlando, we got to be able to make shots, right? Like you just have to make shots. You can't be second last or last in the league in three-point shooting. But I'm saying, no, no, I get it. KCP to me was awesome. We were super excited when it happened. But the biggest thing now is, okay, when – and this is always a question as a front office guy – when is it time to make the next step? When is it time to throw the deck all in, right? Because, you know what I mean, you got Franz resigned now. You're going to have to do Paolo next summer. Like it's there for you now. So it's going to be interesting to see what they do. But they got to at some point, and I don't know – there's never a good answer for it. But when are you going all in for it? Because you have to make shots. You say one more we, you're going to have to get your French passport. Mike, I got to ask, you know, you have Paolo there. He's, you know, the face of that franchise. Yes. What does he feel about their – what does he feel about KCP? How involved is he? Super excited about it. You know, he's – listen, he's still – his biggest thing is he wants to get better. So he was like, does he want the team to get better? Absolutely. But he's focused on getting better because he knows if he's better, the team's better. So, but obviously KCP, I was in Seattle when it happened. Super excited about it. You know, but again, he's sick. Like the great ones are sick. He wants to win. I mean, the trajectory where he's been, they came in, obviously, they're the number one pick, so they didn't have a great season, right? They upgraded. Now they make the playoffs. They go seven against Cleveland. But the reality of the situation, that Cleveland-Orlando game, Orlando series, if you're really being serious about it, it was a rock fight. So if you're going to try to take on the Bostons, the Phillies, the Miamis, you're going to have to get better. You're going to have to get better wing scoring at times. You're going to be able to shoot better. And we know that. But it takes time. But they're built to be able to make advantages, almost like O.K. Seal, you said. They have a lot of – They have their picks. They got tradeable contracts. Oh, yes. So they're there. It's just that's where the thing is. Like I said, there's no perfect time. When are you going to make that move? And that's what's going to be interesting for sure. Where are you at? What do you think of Orlando? He likes the defense. We're going to guard everybody. I was the one who brought Orlando up. Yeah, you did. I threw that name out there. You like Orlando. Yeah, yeah, I love Orlando. I know how tough they are to score against. First and foremost, they can guard. They don't have a matchup that you want to go at. I know in the NBA you're going to run 55 pick and rolls until you find that one guy you want to attack every time. There's not a matchup in that starting lineup that you want to attack. Not one. Trust me, I know. I've played against those. You know what I'm saying? All of them got length. All of them can move their feet. Next time you make a post, say, trust me, I know those. I like that. Put on a t-shirt. Yeah, put on a banner. Put on a banner. You know what I'm saying? They didn't shoot it well. Let's ask this question. I'm curious on both of you guys' answers. Who is the winner and loser of the draft? What rookie makes an impact on a playoff team this year? How about Reed Shepard? Boy, he's good. Damn, he's good. How about Reed Shepard? Damn, he's good. He put that boy in the blender the other day, didn't he? Man, he out here cooking. He was frying today. He comes from a great pedigree, too. Yes, he does. Awesome. Awesome mom and dad. Listen, I like young fella Memphis, too. So that's why. I think. You threw me a softball. I think Zach Egan is going to be the guy. I mean, they lost. Instant impact. I think he's got it. Here's what makes things interesting, right? You have a team that was decimated with injuries last year. You get the ninth pick in the draft. You answer a question that was definitely needed. You need to meet Jarron Jackson to his natural position, which makes him a killer. Right. So now your starting lineup looks really, really good. They stay healthy. That's a team that I think had a great splash. I think that's a great draft pick. How about Memphis this year, Mike? They're going to be awesome. And that's why when people ask about the Lakers, they're going to say, that's why when people ask if the Lakers are going to make the playoffs, I'm like, how the Memphis going to be healthy again this year? Like, I just don't see enough. The math ain't math. Memphis is a Western Conference Finals team. They're not going to make the playoffs last year. They're a Western Conference Finals team. You got OKC. You got Dallas. You got Memphis. Who's going to be healthy this year? You got, I mean, help me out here. You got... How about Sacramento? How are they going to be? You like that UD? You like that DeMar Jones? I love DeMar. Quietly doesn't get the credit he deserves for being a bucket. I mean, if you look on the list of scores, he's like top 15 or something in the list of scores. So he doesn't get the credit that he deserves, but he's a bucket. I love DeMar. Shams, I'm glad you brought up DeMar Rosen. How come he didn't get a bigger deal and it wasn't more active at the beginning of the trade of a free agency? Well, I think when the incumbent team isn't there for you as a suitor and the bulls are moving on, the bulls are going... They're throwing a grenade on it. They're going in another direction. They're retooling. However you want to phrase it. Zach Levine, if they can find a trade for him. He didn't like the grenade word. Yeah, I don't know about that one. They're doing something that I can't really... They traded Caruso for a bag of chips and a soda. Yeah, he had a bag of chips and a soda. So why... Open bag. I'm asking you, is this... It was one in a bag that is closed, but it's halfway full. I'm just trying to set up... I hate that. I think Josh Giddey is going to have a good season for the bulls. I think, you know, he's... No, no, listen. This is no disrespect to Josh Giddey, but when I look at those trades, I feel like what Caruso is going to do for OKC is going to be a lot more influential than what Josh Giddey. Josh Giddey still has a lot to figure out. You know what I'm saying? This is not a knock on Josh Giddey as a basketball player. I have heard, though, that Lonzo Ball is looking good, though, in his workouts. I will say I have heard that. He's freaking good, too. If he's healthy. But going back to Damar, I think the biggest thing, and you know as an agent, like if the incumbent team... So your whole leverage. That's the leverage point. But this is the second straight time, you know, Damar Derozan has gone into a free agency, and he's had to go seek a sign in trade. So you do, to an extent, in a broken market, and you think about all the castaways teams, they're really all not winning. You know, Detroit had cap space. San Antonio obviously used their castaways on Harrison Barnes and Chris Paul. Orlando castaways they used on KCP. Philly used it on Paul George. Utah, they're holding their castaways. Lowry Marketing, whatever else is going on. So you look at the marketplace, same thing happened to Damar Derozan last time in free agency. So I will say the last two deals, his last two deals have been a combined five years, $141 million in a market where... That's crazy. In a market... But in a market where you're not going to a castaways team, so you're really manufacturing a market. But think about that for a second. Five years, $141 million for Damar Derozan, and these dudes are out here signing $275 million and $300 million. Speaking of $275 million and $300 million, let's go to $156 million, Jalen Brunson. Yeah, that... Yeah, great. I mean, obviously a great move for the New York Knicks. What do you think, Mike, as an agent representing players? I had this conversation on the way here in a car with people that know the business very, very well, and I can't get my hands around it. I mean, you know, obviously, listen, at the end of the day, $156 million, when people say it to me, it's like, come on, man. We worked our entire lives in this business and been fortunate as hell and blessed as hell. Didn't touch $156 million. So there's part of that I understand. But if he just plays it out, it's, what, $300? Close to it. So he gave up $113 million. Yes, $113 million was the thing that he gave up. I just don't... I don't understand it. As an agent, it's hard. Again, all the power to him. I don't know if I could ever say give up $113 million. What do you think? They offered him ownership on the back end. You think that happened? What else they gave him? Well, I'm saying because how old is Jalen Brunson? Jalen Brunson has to be late 20s, you would say. So that means after his five years... You're going to be a Nick forever. Well, I'm saying after his five years... 27. His dad is an assistant coach there. But after five years, he's 32. Put it on Tibbs years, he's 37. You're going to be a Nick for the rest of your career. And then when it's time, we're going to make sure we take care of you forever. His dad is on the coaching staff, right? And awesome people. Listen, I'm telling you, it's amazing to me. Leon Rose is a former agent. So there's a lot of family. 100%. No, no, I get it. It's just when it comes out, it's like, okay. I mean, he's going to be taken care of forever. And that came out of nowhere. Right? Am I wrong? Well, it had been out that he was considering it heavily to take that. Because this new second apron. And now we're seeing it around the league. The lack of trades, big trades at different points. Like their deals, some teams can't make. Like the Clippers, they wanted to move Paul George for another play. Like, let's say they wanted to do PG for Jimmy Butler. For example. They couldn't do that under the current system that we're in in the NBA collective bargaining agreement. So there are a lot of moves right now that are being hindered. I think with that, I've talked to league executives here at Summer League. And they're feeling the impact of that. But, you know, you have to navigate it. So this alleviates a lot of that for the next. Because they're going to have to pay guys moving forward. I heard he's taking a pay cut, too, when it's time for him to come up. I mean, there's a standard here, right? I mean, your best player is doing it. But it's like, wow, because then you've got an OG who gets to hunt 205. Man, the man is getting something on the back end. He's playing the long game. Y'all don't want to hear it. I don't know nothing about it. I guarantee he'll never wear another uniform. And I guarantee that goddamn Madison Square Garden is going to be an open door for him for the rest of his life. And it should be. If you do that, it should be. Win, lose, or draw. The problem is... When you see him in retirement, he won't be sitting courtside like a retired player. He'll be sitting in the owner's box. That's how that's going to go. You understand this, though. You understand this. And I hope you understand this. Because everybody understands this. It's not promised that this ----'s going to work out, either. Listen, they're really good. And they talk about a lot of things. But that team right there ain't just, okay, they're going to be top four in the East right now. Let me tell you something. Whether they win a championship or not, the city of New York and their organization are not going to look at Jayden Brunson any differently. Not him. But here's the deal, though. Not him. They might look at a couple of other people differently, but not him. What happens if that team's really, really bad? Nah, I doubt that. What if? And if they are, I bet the city of New York still stand behind Brunson. And that team that got immunity. I guarantee that. That's a good word. The New York Knicks aren't just going to keep you bad, though. He's going to be fine. He's got the most tradable contract. I bet he's fine. Exactly. That's why I'm telling you he got some of the back end. He ain't dumb. His daddy ain't dumb. His agent ain't dumb. So, for him to make that move, there was some conversation about you going to be all right. What happens if a trade comes up and you're bad? You ain't just hear what I said. I heard it. You don't think these dudes lie? Of course they lie. But they ain't do it to him. It's certain that you ain't going to go over. Like I said, he got the city behind him. He got Spike behind him. He got the guard behind him. His daddy on the coaching staff. They got Uncle Wes over there. Does he get a statue? If they win, he will. 100%. I'm saying right now, and I'm saying this as a way, he should have all these things. His dad's amazing. The kid was amazing. But the kid is always taking less, and he keeps taking less, which I commend. I really do. But it's going to be interesting. Because it's not guaranteed they're going to be like, Boston's going to be, Philly's going to be. Of course. Like if you're not a top-four team. Do you think they know that it's not guaranteed that they're going to win? They do. This is great. I'm just getting educated. I love it, though, because he's committed to winning. Let me ask you something. As an agent, if this is your client. I'd probably advise against it. What deal or what could a team offer you that makes you not advise against it, but say, okay, we feel comfortable doing it. There's not a scenario that I'd feel. If I was advising my client, I would say, if you're saying this stuff's all on the back end, whatever they're saying to you, you're taking that with a grain of salt. It probably is not going to happen or could not happen. And if you're cool with that going into it and you want to take the 156 to have a chance to win, that's all blessings to me. I'm good with that. Like I'm never going to say don't take it. I'm just going to give you the pros and the cons of not taking it. Right? Like the reality of the situation is he came there on a basically wasn't supposed to be a max dude, killed it, and it's been unbelievable. And now you have your opportunity to really cash in at 27 years old, 28 years old. That means you're in a situation where you only know there's one more left. So why can't it be like one of those situations where he has one of those Buster Posey deals where he just plays his career like Buster Posey played in San Francisco and went straight into the part ownership like he did? Why can't it be one of those situations? Could be. So if you're his agent and the Knicks put that on the table. But that doesn't mean it's going to happen. Because guess what? Don't just tell him no. Hold on. Let me. Can I? Because this is where we all get this banter. I apologize. For every Buster Posey, there's a Custer Cozy, a Wester Wosey. Yeah. There's a bunch of people have been promised stuff that never happened. God damn it. I'm here. I want this to be clear. I'm here for what he did. I'm just telling you that it's interesting that he did it. That's all. I'm just telling you killer that you got to believe for how much money he left on the table and how believable it was for him to do that. That there had to be a conversation. It's really. When you look at the connections, though, when you look at the connections, you understand. No, no. Yes. Familiar. That should happen. I really do believe it. Like, if that's the case, I should have it. Like all that stuff. Ain't no love for me that much. There was a conversation about what comes next. I guarantee that ain't that much goddamn love in the world. There's a conversation about what comes next. He's got the, he's got the Intel. I got karma. Goddamn. I tell you, I tell you right now. I'm happy for what happened. I hope it works out. I really do. I hope they're, I hope they're great. I really do. Cause I love when New York Knicks basketball is good. I hope it's, I hope it does, but I don't back to back, back to you, back to you real quick. When you're going to get information and drop stuff, is it through agents who are straight suckers? I hate agents. I'm just saying I'm being, I'm an agent. I'm being a funny guy or through team. Where do you get your most information from? I mean, it's any, anyone, all any, any, and everyone could, could be anyone. Wow. Could be UD. The man. If it'll tell you who his source is. I'm working. They confidential informants. They are not. He is not allowed to release the identity. Never know. Appreciate that. I respect it. I wasn't even going to ask. You know, I wasn't even going to ask. I'm going to get you to say something. All right. Being a bowl super fan. Who's the goat? Who? Who's the goat? Being a what fan? You're a bowl super fan. That's the word on the street. You grew up as a bowl super fan. Who is it? I grew up in Chicago. Yes. You roll for the bowls. You did the bowls. You were a bowls fan. Who's the goat? You really put me on spot. I know. That's my job. So for me, for me, obviously, who's your goat, Mike? LeBron. Who's your goat? You're not going to answer his question. That's what you're not going to do. He's good. You're not going to answer his question with a question. That's what you're not going to do. We got to get your answer first. Now when we come on Run It Back, I'll answer yours. Make sure y'all tune in and run it back. It's podcast. Go ahead and shout it out. Run It Back. I'll tell you who it is. Lou Williams. I know his. Okay. Now you answer and I'll go. I know his. So it's for me growing up, like when MJ won his sixth championship, I was four years old. So it's hard for me to people like, you know, watch the YouTube videos and watch the games over. Like you have to. It's an experience. I feel like the greatest of all time is an experience. Right. And for me growing up, Kobe was someone that I watched very closely. And like, you know, the mama mentality, the killer instinct. Like I feel like some of those attributes, I felt like as a young, you know, minority, you know, parents from Pakistani background, like I thought I could apply some of that in my daily life. You know, the killer mentality and like just go get it, you know, every single day. So for me, that was something I gravitated toward. But obviously, you know, as you follow the LeBron James of the world, you know, living in Chicago, like Derek Rose has come up when he was, like when his MVP year, I was a sophomore. I think I was, I was in high school. I think it might've been my senior year of high school, actually. It was, it was an experience. Like, I feel like your favorite players are an experience. And, and, you know, LeBron, I was covering LeBron. Like I was going to those games, you know? So, yeah, that that's kind of like, but I think about my youth. Just so you know, I had to ask the question. I hate the question. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hate that. And if you realize, I didn't give a full answer. Yeah, I hate the question because my biggest thing is like, Michael Jordan, LeBron James are right there. I don't give a damn who you say, I'm cool with it. I tell people this all the time, man. My GOAT is MJ. The GOAT is LeBron. My GOAT is MJ. I grew up, the mentality, watching come fly with me 15 times a day. You answer his answer. Watching come fly with me 15 times a day. It's an experience. But when you look off paper. And that molded my mentality. You look at LeBron and all of his numbers and everything he's done. That's why MJ is my GOAT. LeBron is the GOAT. You know what I'm saying? Two things can be true. You know what I'm saying? No, I'm being honest. I hate the question. I just like to ask it. You know what I'm saying? I was going to give you a chance to say something. None of those guys molded my mentality. MJ helped mold my mentality. If you notice, Mike, I didn't give a. No, you didn't. You gave me a half answer. You gave me a very good reporting answer. Hey, you know how they word one of those things where they tweet it? Sources. Rumors. I know one thing about it. Give me the rumors. One thing about it. Two damn things for sure. It ain't MJ. Because he said he was four years old. So, he was watching. So, he ruled MJ out. First of all. Between LeBron and Kobe. We knew that was going to be. Because he said Derrick Rose. He's a sophomore in high school. I mean, what are we talking about? He ruled MJ out. It's an experience. No, I agree. It's really an experience. I agree. I've said this a ton. Like, reality situation. When you ask me about top five players of all time. As good as some of those guys were. If I didn't see them with my own two eyes. I can't say he's a top five player. Yes. Like, I can't do it. Like, Shaq's my best big man of all time. Period. Don't ask me a question. Most dominant force I've ever seen. And they'll say. And God bless them. They're unbelievable talents. I didn't watch them. Yes. So, why do you want me to say that? I can't go watch VHS. But, you look at the numbers. Like, you're just looking from a purely numbers perspective. For LBJ. Yeah. Just numbers. LeBron James will be top five in every major statistical category possible. When it's all over. Yeah. I mean, he has. He has the accolades and the pedigree to say. This is the guy. He is the GOAT. MJ is my GOAT. Since we're talking LeBron. We've got fan questions here at the OGs. Fans love to ask you questions. Yeah. I don't know if you know this. Dumbass questions sometimes. They be some dumbass questions. But, don't worry. You'll take the glasses off and they'll cuss them out. Don't worry. Yeah. Why do you think the media is putting so much pressure on Bronny James? Because. I mean. You're in a position where. Obviously. Like, look. The elephant in the room is his dad. LeBron James. The greatest player of all time. And. That. Is a part of. Like. That is the legacy that he is walking into. As. And. What they did was historic. Yes. First ever father son duo. To play in the NBA. It's the greatest story of all time. Hell yes. It's. Hell yes. It's never been done. Let me tell you something. I would give anything to do that in my life. It's never been done. It's historic. Anytime you're a part of history. Or you're a part of the limelight. You're a part of the eyes. There's going to be this. And. Especially when your dad is LeBron James. There's going to be this level of. Of. Pressure. Of expectation. And. I think. I think LeBron actually spoke to it publicly. Like. The fact that. You know. Like. Bronny's just wired different. You know. He doesn't pay attention to anything. He's just. He's locked in. It's had to be. You guys. You guys know LeBron better than I. You know. Let me tell you something. Bronny James. Little Bronny is. Awesome kid. Let me tell you something. He's. No. There. I understand. There's probably no other kid that could possibly be in this situation. But there is no other kid that could possibly be more prepared. Yeah. Or handle it. For this particular situation. I agree. Or who can handle. I agree. This particular situation. As a father. As a businessman. I've never seen LeBron James. And his team. And his family. And his people. Throw. At the wall. Just to see if it sticks. They don't do that. They are calculated. They are sharp. They are smart. There is nobody more prepared. Than Bronny James. I'm wishing him the best. Stop hating out there. That's fine guys. There's some hating going on out there. Stop hating man. You talking about nepotism and all that. Stop hating. You've been watching this. Go on. For years. Especially me and you Sean. Maybe not you. They've been getting away with that. Hold on. How many times have we been. Our people got passed over. He's cooking right now. And they were god damn qualified. Somebody brought in their nephew. That's why. He told me. That's why they draft me fifth. That's what he told me. Oh man. No I ain't say no ---- like that now. You god damn. I ain't never. I ain't never knocked your towel. No. You've always been a unicorn. I agree. I've heard about people like you. Until I saw you. I didn't think my wife was complaining. And I saw Mike Miller. And I went back to Miami. I told everybody what I seen. I said I seen this white boy. It's insane what they're doing though. It's. Like this has never been first of all first of all to do it though Like the reality situation that took a person of him only him on human to do this for 21 22 years To last that's why Existence he said this five years ago and It happened. Oh, it's a while. It's well, it's To say that he's the best. He's in the best shape, but he's the best player at USA right now in training camp I know guys not the guys. I was at USA training camp. It's on it's on it's inhumane I'm telling you. He's not he's he's not he's a test tube, baby. Next question Why does why does BAM get no, that's a good question. Actually, did we talk about I want to hit it? Why does BAM get no does not get the respect when it comes to defensive player of the year conversations every year? Well, I've given him his flowers. Oh, I have a vote someone. We got to have the receipts Do you have a vote? I have had a vote the last couple. We got me we do Defensive teams, I've definitely voted him on you know, it's as as the top three in defense, but yeah But I will say I have given him his flowers. Did you go for a Rudy go bear this year? for a spot I Did You do I thought you're well equipped you're well equipped to answer the question of the BAM situation I've given BAM his flowers because there were points in the of the of last season even the year prior where you guys have had a ton of injury and You guys wouldn't even like that. He wouldn't even be in playoff contention if it wasn't for BAM's Dominance on both ends before especially on defense, which is why he I mean he's been an all-star You know that he's been the representative in the all-star game the last few seasons because he's been the guy that's led this team And has carried this team and then he also got rewarded three years 166 extension On the max extension so deserve. He's the he's the corner To certain people. I just feel like the Miami. He's not sexy enough You know, we're we're lunch pair hardhat team chop wood carry water, you know, I'm saying we just not sexy enough But at the end of the day you look at the last four or five years. It's either been us or Boston You know I'm saying that's been right there Milwaukee got in there They got one, but it's been us a Boston You know for me I think what people don't understand about BAM out of Bayou is that not just our defenses is spearheaded by him But our offense as well, you know, we always know how well we're playing by how many shots Duncan Robertson get up You know how many shots Caleb Martin get up how many shots that other guys get up and that's all built off the movement of BAM out of Bayou. I mean, he's our trigger. Sometimes he plays the point forward for us So there's so many things that BAM got a process Offensively, it's not just throw the ball to BAM and let him go Secondly defensively, you know that play the five that you can start off on Jalen Brown or Jason Tatum in the game We started BAM on Jalen Brown one game and Jason Tatum on another game in the playoffs name another five man can do that You ain't gonna get one from here. Go see now what you don't do is OG don't come with that I'm saying so when y'all sit at home, but y'all And I like Rudy, but every time he play against the Joker call the policia, oh Hold on that every time he play against the Joker. Okay. You gotta call. Yeah Joker gonna get a blue. Yes. What'd he say? I don't My friend My mind and I don't give a damn I'm never gonna change this the defensive player to you should never need help Should never need help ever. You see the player to you. You got to guard your yard and anybody in your position You should never need So I agree. That's just I never I never need to help. I sat down and guarded we talking about Always had the right mindset of being a great team Last question. All right best young team in your opinion. I think I know the answer but go ahead. I know what I Mean there are a few there are a few. Okay. I think we can still look at Memphis as a young team. I Yeah, Orlando. Okay, Oklahoma City. Yes. Yes Yes, who am I missing off the top of my head Mike? I Mean, okay. See Orlando Memphis are about the three best young teams. I mean, are you considering still consider Memphis young? And I think with a fully healthy, by the way, I wouldn't be report if I didn't ask Josh summer What's the summer look like? How's he doing? How's he feeling? How ready is he? I saw he was clear for five on five He's really good I'm telling you guys right now. John Moran is coming for all the work this year All of it How soon they forget man, that's No better source on the job They forget. Hmm. That's all I'll say. He's about to come for it. But I like I can't see a fully healthy Memphis team I am to City the city wants it. It's gonna be fun. It's me fun and like we like they have they have Marcus smart who last year Season and then he got he had injuries Dez was out a lot of games Jared Jackson is probably gonna get to see what this product looks like So I put Zack eating next to him like they lose guys in natural positions the reality situation even when Even when job was out like guys were playing and not their positions and then when jock came back They won't slid to the national position because they were good again, right? So it's it's interesting to circle back on this one because you avoided this question You kind of ducked it now how the Lakers get to do the playoff I Don't know but I think if LeBron LeBron James and Anthony Davis stay healthy you have a chance they were healthy last year And in this world we can't play in this playoffs Well some teams for some teams if it matters as much but for the Lakers it can Playoffs playoffs is the playoffs. You have to make a plan. We keep talking about putting them in but who we taking out I agree because that now one of y'all agree Denver coach, Minnesota Dallas Dallas, okay. See a C sack Sacramento Pelicans are gonna be better Well, I mean the list can go on this can go on are we missing anybody the Phoenix? What about Phoenix Phoenix? What do we think about Phoenix? By the way, hold on real quick before Houston. Yes, you know, no No is a playoffs too soon, yes too soon I like I like I like huge a lot of you Houston's young talent The thing with Houston now is gonna be is how when it comes now to it is who you pay who you don't pay We're who moves out who doesn't Reed Sheppard of men Jabari Jalen green That's where it really comes down to it that's where you make the money but it's gonna be interesting No, we played against Jabari pops at LSU. I know we did every time I see him. It's crazy I saw him at the draft cuz he's the same draft as Apollo. So we're there By the way, can we get the we get the Apollo draft story draft night? So that was the most quiet number one pick You like that? Did you get the scoop before it happened that night I think I did but it was barely barely barely it was close It was cutting it close Orlando played it Was Mike Anything about a player and broke it before the play even knew like somebody was getting traded or something and they didn't even know yet Like I hear about that all the time like players find out they got traded online and like that Have you ever have you ever heard somebody? Sometimes they're selling that but sometimes, you know good amount of times. That's crazy That sounds you're an absolute legend, man. Appreciate you guys stopping in here. I appreciate you stopping here. Oh Geez, man, check us out. We're out of here, though. All right. Thanks