614 | Darren Waller + Deonte Banks | Giants Player, Profile & Projections

Welcome to Talking Giants player profiles and projections. And today we are looking at the Giants first round pick and the Giants prize free agent slash trade addition in Darren Waller. But we are starting with Darren Waller who's 6'6", 250 pounds. He'll be 31 three days after the season opener. Coming off of two years where he's missed some games. He's missed 14 out of the last 34 games after two full seasons for the Raiders, was traded with a third round comp pick that was brought over in the Caderia's Tony trade, as well as Trey Hawkins, the draft pick he's on that. Justin, this guy's a star. The only question mark is, how many games will he'll play? We'll go into it all, we'll talk about how he wins versus man, how he wins versus zone, and how does he affect the offense. But it's just, this guy is a star player and the only question is how many games does he plays? That's the only question mark with Darren Waller. How many games does he play? He has not been slowed down by injuries one bit. He didn't show that last year. He hasn't shown that at the beginning of camp. And you can see how excited I am. I have like 25 pages of notes. I have not been as excited to watch a player since Daniel Jones as a rookie. Right. 2019 to 2020, he combined for 197 catches, almost 2.4K thousand yards. 12 touchdowns during the 2019 to 2020 seasons. He trailed only future Hall of Famer Travis Kelsey among tight ends and catches and yards during that stretch. Yep. While ranking fourth at the position for touchdowns, but forget that. That was a long time ago. 2019, 2020 is a long time ago. 2021, 2022, Waller has been a hurt player. But even at that point, Bobby, let's just say Darren Waller hurt this year for a portion of Giants plays 10 to 12 games. It's still a massive upgrade to this Giants team. Because really the biggest downside to this Darren Waller acquisition is that he isn't healthy and he doesn't produce. But even if he produces at the same rate at which he did in 2021 and 2022, it is still the best weapon that we have had in the passing game since Odell Beckham Jr. Well, also he's missed 14 of the last 34 games. It's not like this guy has been just like out, right? Like he's had some injuries, but I don't, it's not like, I don't view him as the same way as I view like even Aziz Ojolary, where it's like, man, you got this, this, this. And like, you know, and obviously not, you know, former Giant Cadareous Tony, who he's traded for essentially. But last year he had 28 catches, 388 yards. That would have been third on the Giants in 2022. The year before, that was in nine games. In 2021, he had, in 11 games, he had 665 yards on 55 catches. That would be second on the Giants last season. And then like you mentioned, the 1,200 yard seasons, the two years before, only after Kelsey. But injuries, the injuries are just, is he on the field? They haven't slowed him down one bit. And also when we talk about this, when he was actually traded, why it's even like, it'll be depressing if he doesn't, if he's missing games, but it was also a very low risk move for the New York Giants. He traded a third round comp pick and his contract at the time had no dead cap when the Giants traded for him. Now it does, they restructured a little bit. Yeah, so like if they cut, so he's signed through 2026. If they cut him and this off, he's gonna be seven and a half mil with dead cap. And then two and a half mil the last season. Or it'll be seven mil this next season, five this season after that, and then two and a half the last season with 14 and a half, 15 and a half, and then 17 and a half cap hits the last three seasons. But so there's not much risk. Even if the guy had a career-ending injury next year, they would still save over $7 million in cap space by cutting him. The biggest risk is, damn, Darren Waller's not on the field. Yes, that is the risk. It's like the guy that is gonna almost transform the offense won't be on the field. But he's just bigger and faster than everyone else. Like last year in nine games, I know you probably have this stat. Sorry to steal it from you. Oh no, you're gonna take, can I say it? Say it. Darren Waller, 20 plus yard catches by year. 2021, he had 13 and 11 games. 2022, he had nine in nine games. 2020, 16, 20, 19, 14, when he played the majority of games. Darius Slayton had 12 20 plus yard catches. Is this where you were going? Well, even just air, like 20 plus air yards. Okay, well, let me finish this. Darius Slayton had 12 20 plus yard catches last year. No other Giants player had more than three receiving plays of 20 plus yards. And even in nine games in 2022, Darren Waller had nine, and that would have been second on the team, which is outrageous. But you're talking about 20 plus air yards. Tell me about that. Who led the NFL last year for tight ends in 20 plus air yards? If I had to guess, since Darren Waller was mostly an out wide receiver, it would be Darren Waller. Darren Waller. And that's just air yards. It's not air yards per attempt. That's just total air yards, right? Just catches of that, the ball travels more than 20 yards. So that's a volume stat. And the fact that it was in nine games is pretty impressive. Yeah, he led the NFL in those. Yeah. Let's just talk about him as a player. He wins, he is bigger and faster than everybody, but that's not just what he is. He plays a very, very smart game, and it really comes down to the release. He wins at the release. Whether it's someone trying to press him up, he has strong hands to throw those guys to the side, but he also, his route tempo is elite. If you want to go check out the film breakdown I did on him, I just went through the release on a bunch, and it's just like, man, this guy is just smarter. He knows, he's just two steps ahead of DBs or linebackers, whoever they play on him, and he's just able to consistently stack them. And you look at him on man coverage, when he's going up against guys like Minka Fitzpatrick, James Bradbury, Derwin James, Fred Warner, and he consistently dusted these dudes in man coverage. Dusted them. And that's in man coverage versus the best, the players who are supposed to be the best at covering Darren Waller. Which is like, if you had a guy who can cover Darren Waller, these are the guys, and they cannot cover Darren Waller. And that's why he is so productive in the games that he plays. And that's why, like you mentioned, the two years he played full games, you know, in the last four years, he was second only behind Travis Kelsey, who was arguably a top three tight end of all time. He was a Hall of Famer. Yeah, like not even thinking about it, a Hall of Famer. So he's just able to win those, and he can go up the ladder, and adjust to the ball with high pointing it, adjusting to bad passes. And then versus zone, like he works leverage really well. Whether it's the quick game or down field, he's able to manipulate defenders and get their hips going one way, or get them going one way and then go the other. And then versus your base zone defenses, he's just able to like go and outrun guys and find holes in it, and he's a big target. He is like, he is legitimately an offense changing player. And we got heat when we said this, if you asked me going into the season, the guys that are gonna play games, who would you like on this team? Darren Waller or Saquon Barkley? I'm taking Darren Waller 10 times out of 10. Yeah, yeah, and a lot of people would disagree with that, but I mean, I'm not, to me it's not, I am adamant. I don't think it's even close. If you ask me which player did we have to miss this season, it would be Saquon Barkley. Right, and that just comes down to throwing the ball and having a passing game that is explosive is more valuable than a running back that can get four and a half, five yards per pop. I also think Darren Waller's better at his position than Saquon Barkley is. And I know this isn't a, like a Saquon Barkley, but it's not to put down Saquon, obviously Saquon's a star. Yeah, it's to elevate Darren Waller at his best. It's to show you what I think of Darren Waller. Yeah. Like I think it's just play games. Like that's really all it comes down to with Darren Waller, play games, and he is going to be sick. He's gonna be so huge. We already see the connection with Daniel Jones in a week of camp. Like they're gonna be creative with him. We could talk about that and the projections because we don't need to project stats with him. We could just project how he's gonna be used. Like this coaching staff, Daniel Jones' accuracy, I think is, it legit could get the best out of him that we haven't even seen yet with Darren Waller. Yeah, maybe, maybe. And we know that he wasn't fully happy with his role with McDaniels. Like they were putting him out wide, which is why I'm curious to see how often he's been lined up out wide in camp. But we'll talk about that. But you were talking about him at the release. I've been coming to training camp since 2017. I've been a Giants fan for a long time. You know, I haven't been a Giants fan since like the 80s or the 90s. I'm not old enough for that. But Darren Waller is unlike anybody that I've seen, I'll say since Odell Beckham Jr., as a weapon and as a receiver. Like I didn't see Cruz in camp. I would have loved to see Cruz in camp and Cruz at the release. And I guarantee you, that would be another one that he would just win. He would win the play right away. But even so, that was so short lived. Darren Waller at the release, especially for how big he is, is like nothing that I have seen as a Giants fan. And it is a tremendous difference maker. Like we were talking about the explosive plays and those are going to be there. But what we've seen so far in camp and what I am excited for is just Darren Waller's ability to be a quote unquote security blanket for Jones where he can snap the ball and then that average time to throw of 2.5 to 2.7 seconds. Darren Waller is going to be open and there is no waiting for routes to develop. We'll have those long developing plays and Waller can be open on that. And there's even a, you know, Waller had 50 receptions on crossing routes since 2019, the third most among tight ends. Daniel Jones targeted crossers at the third highest rate in the NFL last year. So those explosive plays are going to be there, but also the quick developing plays and the short area quickness that Waller has. It's a total complete package of what we got. He's unguardable. He is elite at every level of the field. And like you said, what you're doing is if you're going to put a focus and double team, well, guess what? That's going to make other guys open. If you're going to man up versus the best safeties and linebackers manning up tight ends, he's going to defeat them. You know, you can throw the ball to him 30 yards down the field and not have it be accurate and he will go and make a play. Versus guys like Nick Fitzpatrick. And Jones has shown this camp, and this has been a critique of Jones in the past. It's like, dude, I feel like, you know, maybe we got some guys that you could throw the ball to them and maybe they can go up and make a play. Guys don't have to always be totally wide open for you to throw the ball. And we've seen it with Waller this summer. Jones says, I'm going to see if you can go and get this. I'm going to put this ball in a place that maybe most of my receivers in the past wouldn't get. But can you go up and get it? Because you're so big and you're so freaky athletic. And most of the time this camp, the answer has been yes. And I love that Jones is experimenting like that because that is what, like those jaw-dropping plays, like that is what can make, you know, a game, you know, that's what can go like, you know, a third down stop and you can pump the ball or you can get an explosive play. It can be a touchdown or in a drive can continue and sustain itself. Let's talk about how, and here, let's put, let's say, we've been super, he's a bad blocker. Okay, yeah. Like he is a bad blocker. And it looked like this past year, there wasn't, this is questions of, like with years before, it's like he at least showed effort. He didn't show the same effort this past year with the Raiders. Hopefully that effort is renewed with not being with Josh McDaniels. He may be a little disgruntled, yeah. Who, Josh McDaniels is maybe my most hated NFL coach of all time. But I also think Josh McDaniels just misused him. Where Josh McDaniels had him in the slot 72% of the time last season. If you look at his career before that, the three seasons before, he lined up in line between 59 and 65% every year. Line him up in line. That is where he's going to be able to make the most of his mismatch. Obviously, you're going to line him up in the slot. Like that's going to happen. But in line is where I think he can do the most damage. You know, you just get more mismatches out there. And that's what I want to see with him. But I think this coaching staff is going to be very creative with him. I think they're going to do like, not full-on trick plays, but like plays that have some disguise of what they're trying to do. And in play action, I think it's just, it's going to be deadly. Like we know this coaching staff likes to use play action a ton, especially last year, because of some of the deficiencies they had. But even like, I hate to reference Kamp in these PPPs, but they lined up in 13 personnel with him. And they had all the tight ends on one side. And you're thinking like, okay, even if they throw this ball, it's not going to be explosive. Nope. He catches a ball like 18 to 20 yards down the field out of that stuff. So I think there's, we saw how creative the Genes coaching staff could be last year. And that was without an elite receiving weapon. Now we have an elite receiving weapon. And I think they're going to be really creative in getting him the ball. So you would predict that he is going to have more snaps as an inline tight end than as a slot slash outside wide receiver this year? I hope so. I think it's going to be close, but I... I think it'll be closer than the 59 to 65% inline. Yeah. But I want it to be over 50% at least. I think he's going to line out wide more than inline. That is something to, that will be something I'm monitoring throughout the season. Not like when we go back and do a tight end review, like where do... No. That's something I want to monitor in season. Week to week on seeing where he's lining up. And I wonder if that's like a mid-season adjustment that they make? Well, even if they do, it's like, hopefully at least they do it better than Josh, again, Josh McDaniels. I hate Josh McDaniels. So, but he seems refreshed. He seems happy, man. And I think him being with Daniel Jones, I think it's going to be really, really nice to see. We've never seen Daniel Jones get to throw to somebody like that before. Can I make a prediction? Go for it. Darren Waller is going to win the Good Guy Award this year. He will win the Good... That's actually, that's going to happen. It's going to happen. That's going to happen. If he's healthy and he plays and he's available to the media, then he's going to win the Good Guy Award this year. He will win. All right. So remember this when they vote on that. The odds are out. I'm putting $1,000 on it. Justin, why don't you talk to us about Manscaped? Manscaped, that's right. They're sponsoring the PPPs. They're sponsoring camp streams. And I can't thank Manscaped enough because they have the Platinum Package 4.0 and they want to take care of you, every single part of you, from the Nina, the Pinta, to the Santa Maria. You know that song, Stepbrothers? You want to finish it? Yeah, we know it. Yeah, you know it. It's the one-stop... The Platinum Package 4.0, it's the one-stop shop for the man who deserves it all. They designed this package to allow you to... Is it sad that you, when you think of Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria, you think of Stepbrothers and not... And not the historical boats? I probably do too now. But at least I started on the historical boats. Nope, I started right away with Stepbrothers. The Lawn Mower 4.0 trimmer, we know about that. The Weed Whacker Ear and Nose Hair Trimmer. I am a stan for the Weed Whacker Ear and Nose Hair Trimmer. And the Ultra Premium Body Wash 2-in-1. Shampoo and conditioner plus deodorant. And they have so much more. I want you to get 20% off and free shipping with the code GIANTS at manscaped.com. That's 20% off with free shipping at manscaped.com. When you use code GIANTS, use the platinum package because the gold standard, it's no longer good enough. Get out of here, gold standard. I like platinum. Platinum. P's. PPP's. You'll be glad you did. Trim your PP. All right. Deontay Banks, cornerback out of Maryland. The Giants' first round pick was picked 24th overall. They traded up one spot. They traded the 25th pick as well as a 5th and a 7th round pick. And Justin, at 6 foot 197 pounds, he had an elite combine testing with a 4-3-5-40, a 42-inch vertical jump. Like he is a great athlete who does move around the field effortlessly in both man and zone coverage. And he has like, you don't see with a lot of corners, he has a lot of press man experience in college. And he has the athletic profile to pull it off. So you see the fit with Wink Martindale. And I remember I even tweeted about it in March before the draft. It's like, man, he's got some flaws. But I can definitely see Wink Martindale wanting to get his hands on Deontay Banks. And he did. And we saw that. And we saw how excited he was when they drafted him. We saw how big Wink's forearms were. Yeah. That was my note. Yeah, that's true. So after, you know, he missed his sophomore season. And then, you know, or he missed his second year in college after starting as a freshman and then came back last year. Only gave up 43% of the passes targeted. Did give up four touchdowns and had one interception. But eight pass breakups. Overall, 4.3 yards per attempt when targeted. Justin, we'll talk about the scouting report. And this will be a lot like the draft recap. And we've seen some of that stuff come the first beginning of camp. But I fully expect rookie struggles for Deontay Banks. And for Deontay Banks, this season, the Giants do want to win games. So I do want to see him be at least close to good by the end of the season. He's a first-run pick, you know. Yeah, there's big expectations on him. We should see growth by the end of the season. But I'm not expecting that in the beginning of the season. But I do want to see some linear growth throughout the season. But I expect the Giants to give him help. But also like, hey, there's going to be put in situations where he's going to need to be trusted. And hopefully, I don't want to see at any point of the year where he's just flat out picked on and he is like a meme for how bad he is. But there will be struggles. Deontay Banks is now the first pick that we're going to have as Giants fans where it's like, yeah, this is where we should be picking from now on. No longer the top 10 players that are, you know, you feel like they virtually should be just slam dunk players. But the Deontay Banks pick and Deontay Banks as a player is like, well, you know, this is really the big test for Joe Shane to be like, well, if we're going to be picking at the back end of the first round from now on, like we want to, you know, can we pull out some good players? And corner is a risky player. I think banking on this is just me personally. I'm a fan. I'm a Giants fan. I'm a fan of football and the Giants are my favorite team. Anytime that we pick a corner in the draft and we're going to be investing in them and we're going to be trusting them to take a big leap, or especially if we draft them early on, like in the first and second round, I get nervous, man, because it's a really, really difficult position to transition to. And especially since Deontay Banks was, you know, touted as like maybe this late first, you know, maybe early second round grade, like what grade did you have on him? A high second. Which in this past draft turns into a late first. You know, so we're, you know, a guy with that kind of grade on it, on him, we're going to be trusting basically in year one to be a starter. That makes me nervous, but I like the athleticism. I'm trusting the athleticism. And I'm also trusting Jerome Henderson to get this guy right. Because Jerome Henderson has gotten a lot of guys that have had worse athleticism and probably a worse profile than Deontay Banks, and they've been fine. Yeah, and we do, like, you see great corners, you look back at it, and like, let's just go look at the Giants' best two corners recently. James Bradbury and Adore Jackson. Adore Jackson did struggle as a rookie. I don't know how much, but like James Bradbury as a rookie was maybe one of the worst corners in the league that year. Like he was picked on, but obviously he was a late second round pick compared to a late first. But let's talk about it. He is a great athlete, like I said, who moves effortlessly around the field. And he has reps of press man coverage where it's like, this is sick. And not a lot, like, even against Marvin Harrison Jr. It was a cool game. Like, you go watch, like, and go, you know, just search, you know, Deontay Banks, Marvin Harrison Jr. There's reps where he is pressing, he is, I mean, he is getting in Marvin Harrison Jr.'s chest. So he has all that ability to be that strength, play with that demeanor, and the speed to stick with guys. And I think he's got, he's never going to be an interception guy, but he's good at breaking the pass up guy. You know, he's kind of good there. Which, that seems like a theme in Wink-Martindale's defense. Low interceptions for the corners, but you still need to make a play on the football. Yeah, so he's gonna, like, he fits what this Wink-Martindale defense wants. And, you know, to quote great, the great, the late, great Dave Gettleman, you can never have enough press corners. Like, it's the tight, like, corner, you can talk about this system, this system. Press corners fit in every single system. Whether you're playing a base zone, like, you can put a press corner in that system. Like, he's got great change of direction speed and break on the ball. Like, he's coming out of his back pedal, he's, I mean, it's effortless, and he explodes out of it. Which I think he's going to be better at zone to start in his, in the NFL. But where I do worry about Banks is, as much as you see the highlights at the start of reps and press, I think he loses the release way too often, and is often playing from behind. And you can get away from that in college. You can't get away from that, away with that in the NFL. You have to be much more consistent. You can't just have highlights at the line of scrimmage. You have to be consistently good at the line of scrimmage. If that's the way you're going to play in the NFL, and you're not going to play in, like, a, you know, an off-man coverage type system, you have to be consistent. Because you can be great 75% of the time, but if you're really struggling 25%, you're giving up 80 yards a game. So that's where he needs to get better, to me. I think if he gets better there, I think all of the other issues will improve. But it all starts at the release. And we've seen it at camp, where it's like, he just loses the release, and he's five yards behind. Or he's overextending, and guys sit on a route, and he's, you know, he's continuing the running. But I think it all starts with the release, and some overthinking, and man coverage. But tell me why, in zone, like, losing the release isn't as demanding if you're a man. For the most part, you're starting in a backpedal. And he's got all the athlete, like, you know, he explodes out of the backpedal. Like, he's got good instincts out of that. But you're not, the release isn't as important. And that's where he just, he just looks more comfortable there. Like, obviously, he's drafted to be a man coverage, but he looks more comfortable playing in those zone coverages. Like, kind of reading and reacting, instead of, like, let's just go one-on-one. But once he's connected, if he does win the, you know, doesn't lose the release, he does stay in the hip pocket of receivers, and obviously has the athleticism and ability to, like, make plays. So do you think if they ask him to not jam as much, or to not be as physical, where simply he's just focusing on his footwork, and he's getting kind of out of his, like, two-point stance, do you think that can make his job easier year one? Or is it a little bit more complicated with that where Ben just needs to react quicker? Yeah, I mean, his footwork is iffy right now. Like, it's hit or miss. So it's not just when he's pressing guys up. It's just he loses the release with bad footwork at the start. But like you said, when you're in zone, you're starting out of a backpedal. But, like, if he's just playing press and not jamming guys, there's still a lot of issues there. But eventually, he's got to get better at that, because that's what he was drafted to be. That's what his athletic profile says. Yeah, if receivers aren't running, if receivers are running, like, clean streaks without any kind of, like, nuance to their game, I'm not concerned with Banks kind of, like, allowing just, like, a big 40, 50-yard bomb down the field, because he's going to keep up. But I think it's when receivers kind of add the fancy little nuances to route running that maybe they'll struggle, especially at the start and especially at the release. So that's where you see the speed and the, you know, the change of, you know, I was not, maybe the change of direction, but that's where you see the speed really come in, is he can keep up with guys running down the field. And also, another area that, I know the Grump talked a lot about this, and I saw this too at certain times. You can send him in on blitzes, and I know this is going to be a very low percentage of the time, but Wink Martindale likes to do this. You can send him in on some blitzes, and it's going to be fun. And he doesn't need, like, a running start either, where a lot of times you'll have corners kind of, like, show and fake, like, they're going to, they're in, like, that running stance, like, okay, I'm going to come and blitz, and I'm not going to drop back. He can be kind of, like, in that two-point stance, where he is square towards the line of scrimmage, and square towards his receiver, but then he can break just as effectively if another corner is lined up in that sprinter stance, like he's going to blitz. So I'm excited to see what Wink Martindale can do, and how maybe they can get creative with banks. Yeah, last thing, he was very grabby in college, and got a lot of penalties. So, like, he would get beat on the release, like we said, and then he would just, like, tackle guys. So that's something that needs to be cleaned up. All right, anything else on Deontay Banks? No, it's, and I kind of have here, Banks is a guy who I have hoped for, that he has a confidence and a swagger to him. And I think he does. It's like, so that's the, that's, like, just don't lose your confidence and put in the work, but I think he's going to be a good player. Yeah, like, I hope year one, if there is going to be some sort of struggles, I hope it's not enough of a struggle, where he's looking himself in the mirror, and being like, damn, can I, can I really do this? Which, hey, we've seen corners in the past. Like, I thought Jeff Okuda was going to be the, the cleanest prospect out there, and now he's on his second team, and, you know, he's, it's not looking too good. He, you know, that second contract of being that, you know, top end of the first round draft pick, it, that second contract is not going to be pretty, and it's not going to match what he got. You're going to get a one-year minimum, dude. Yeah, it's, it's, it's going to be crazy. So, you know, there's, I hope that Deontay Banks has that confidence and swagger to him, and I trust that Joe Shane and the staff, like, they, they value the character of a guy, and I know that Banks is going to have it, and he's going to battle through whatever struggles he's going to have. All right, that's a PPP. We will see you guys tomorrow. Until then, let's go big blue.