Why Your Bike Will Be Obsolete ｜ The Global Mountain Bike Show ep.6

I really do hope this is an op- I can't even say anomaly. Have you got your teeth in, old boy? I think all e-bikes will be obsolete at some point. That's why all mountain bikes, cross-country nature, that's why they all look the same, same as birds. Do you know what? It's kind of inevitable given there's so many system brands, but I hope this doesn't happen too often. Is data overrated? Do we really need it? Hello, and welcome to the Global Mountain Bike Show. This week, it's myself, Rich Payne. I'm joined by Steve Jones and Adam Scroggston. We've got some banging subjects this week. Could your EMT be becoming obsolete? Garmin have collated a whole load of data from the cycling world, which we're going to be diving into, and have bike designers got lazy? Have they just stopped trying and has bike design become the same? All that and more coming up on the show. Gents, how are we doing? Let's kick things off. First up, could your EMT be become obsolete? Now, this comes off the back of two things I've been thinking about. Firstly, standards in the mountain bike world change like hot dinners, all the time, but recently- Why do hot dinners change? Well, because you have a different one and then you have another one. Recently, Porsche MTV and Fazua have shut down. They are no more obsolete. What's going to happen to people with Fazua-equipped bikes? Yes, first of all, Rich, it's a shame, isn't it? Such a great company, great people working for Fazua. I was fortunate enough to go and visit them a few years ago. Some great bikes. They were very much the pioneers of the lightweight e-mountain bike system. Came out with the Lapierre E-Zesty, I think it was 2018, I think it was. That paved the way for the other brands to follow suit, such as the Levo SL, the TQ, the Bosch SX. In that regard, very much pathfinders of that system. I guess there's two things, right? There's like, okay, what's going to happen to people who've got the system that might have some parts? That's the big one in my opinion. But then there's a secondary question, which is about obsolescence. I think we should tick off the first one first. What happens? You'd like to think that they'll, for a certain period of time, will keep the stock. I'm sure there's some examples out there in the market. That's it. YT are a great one, actually. I've got a quote here from them. YT say, following news of the closure of the Fazua-Porsche e-bike performance systems, YT confirms its support for the existing and future Decoy SN customers. Now, the Decoy SN paved the way for the Decoy X, which now uses a different motor system. Obviously, should you be worried that if you have a Fazua-equipped bike, in a couple of years' time, you're going to be done for when it comes to parts and things? I think one way or another, you are probably going to still be able to get parts because it might not have the Fazua branding on it. It's like the car. It might not have the genuine part fitted to it, but there's going to be a third-party supplier that makes a component that is of equal standard as the original part. I think there's a couple of things. I think lots of the component parts of an e-bike motor are probably fixable, replaceable, or rebuildable. The hardest bit is the PCB board. That's going to be the most difficult thing. If that goes, you're done. Actually, YT go on to say, for those needing support, the YT service process remains in place while parts will continue to be available. I think that's the important part. Directly through the Fazua dealer network, ensuring customers see no disruption to their warranty coverage. That can only last so long. Surely, then, there's that opportunity for a third party to come along and be like, right, we can make all these parts and there's going to be a demand for it. Can we talk about the bigger picture of obsolescence? In the mountain bike world, generally, because- That's a big topic. I'm not sure we've got enough time in the show. I think it's got relevance to what we're talking about with the Fazua because the marketers love the term obsolescence. It creates a slight bit of panic, doesn't it? Oh, we're going to get the newest thing. It's a bit like phones and stuff like that. Replace them every few years. Let me give you an example. Specialized Levo 2, 2018, 150-mil travel, 29-inch wheels, 700-watt-hour battery, 90-nitometer motor. You can still buy the batteries online. If your motor breaks, you can still take it to places such as the e-bike motor center in Ringwood. You can repair that for about 200 pounds. It might not be the latest and greatest, and the marketers will want you to think you need the latest and greatest. That's where we get caught up. Agree. It's not a **** basically. It is. I'm not saying nothing. The big question is though, should people be worried? Obviously, one, not just about Fazua shutting up shop, but also the e-bike world has a lot of these smaller brands, motor companies that are popping up. Should we be worried that we should be reliant upon the big companies that we know work and we know can be serviced, Bosch, Avanox, etc., specialized, or should we give the little guys a try? Can I actually bring one more thing into this chat? I've just been thinking about this as we're chatting, is the fact that we've got Porsche, which we're about to launch a new system, and we've got Fazua, who had an established lightweight EMTB system, I think there seemed to be a trend which was happening. Like I said, Fazua came out with a lightweight system. Lots of brands followed suit. Those lightweight motors, when I say lightweight, I mean low torque, low power, they seem to be getting less and less because the trend was more, for a case, the likes of the Amflo, which was Amflo was a bike which had the same weight with more power and more range than a so-called lightweight bike. I think the lightweight e-bike motor market was possibly thinning out anyway, so there's two things going on here really, isn't there? When I was working in shops, I remember it being like a super sort of niche sell, for want of a better word, because everyone that sort of came to, oh, I want an e-bike, they wanted to kick up the backside, you got with like a Bosch at the time, and then as much as they needed the bike with the lighter motor in it, that sell was always a little bit harder than the full fat bike. Yeah, 100%. And especially now you can get a full power e-bike for the same weight, bigger range, more power, etc. So, back to the question then, should we be just on the tried and trusted, sort of will the weak be weeded out, what do you think? So, I think Porsche and Fazua are trusted companies, for sure. I mean my 911 is still going fantastically, GT3 RS. So, I think it is concerning, Rich. So, you go to the likes of Eurobike Show, right, and there are so many, there are dozens and dozens of e-bike system brands there, all wanting part of the action. You've got some very established brands. I mean, Bosch is a classic example because people like Bosch because there's service centers, there's backup. We went to the Bosch e-mountain bike challenge in Ghada recently. There's a service truck there to give you a hand if you've got any problems. So, the peace of mind that comes with that, I'd like to think that Fazua is an anomaly, but at the same time, there are simply too many e-bike motor brands out there, I think. Yeah, exactly. All right. Well, look, let us know in the comments down below, or answer our poll, which you'll find linked as well. Would you try a smaller, more boutique motor brand, or would you stick to one of the big Wayne ones? But for now, that's it. Adam, we're going to have to swap you out because I want to bring James in for our next topic. James, welcome. Right. Me and James have just come off the back of BC Bike Race. All right. Where was that, Rich? In British Columbia, Canada. Okay, right. Nice. But recently, what got us thinking, that was a Garmin-sponsored video, and Garmin have released loads of data on cycling trends, who's doing what, when they do it. And it's some interesting numbers in there. Some you'd expect, some you wouldn't. So I want to dive into the data a little. I don't know if you're up for that. You use Garmin, don't you? A hundred percent. I live my life by Garmin, dude. Wow, okay. He's committed. I do. I'm obsessed. Oh, I thought you wouldn't be a data-driven person. No. I thought you were quite analog still. Yeah. Data-informed, not data-led, right? Well, cyclists apparently average 28.6 miles per ride and spend about 115 minutes- Can I qualify that? On average, on each ride. When you say cyclists, is that cyclists in general, or is that- It's cyclists in general. It'll be any activity that's recorded as a bike ride. I don't know if e-biking counts, does it? Oh, here we go. Is this why you called this gentleman in? Is it really why you called him in? Go on, let's hear it. Cyclists recorded- By the way, what were you doing in British Columbia? Just this little thing called BC Bike Race. Go on, I think the audience would like to know a bit more of that. Don't be so modest. I'm sure you wouldn't be more modest, would you? It's a seven-day cross-country race, back-to-back stage racing. Located in? Vancouver Island in British Columbia. All down the East Coast, mostly. What kind of distance each day? Altitude, all that kind of stuff? Not super far, anywhere between 30 and 50K most days. Not particularly high, actually, because a lot of time you'd be at sea level. I think we went up to about 1,000, 1,200 or so meters. Surely it's quite rainy on the West Coast there. It can be, yes. We had one day of rain, but otherwise, we had stunning weather. How many hours did you beat Rich by? Oh, a fair few. I spent an hour of it crying, but you'll have to wait to watch the video for that. We don't want to give too many spoilers away, but yes, we had a good week. He didn't say a number though, did he? A number? We're going to talk about numbers. Folks, please watch the BC bike race on GMBN. It'll be an absolute, I'm going to be watching. That'd be cool, right? Yes, it was an epic week. Just to get that data. Back to data, right? Back to data. Okay. Cyclists recorded most of their rides on Sundays, and the most popular month of the year was August. I don't think that's a huge surprise in any way. That seems like a good month. Pretty obvious. Everyone has their rest days on Sunday, right? But the average bike rider, like we said, 28.6 miles. Cyclists in Italy recording the highest average miles, 34.7. Okay. Interesting. I don't know why that, I mean- Mediterranean diet, it's good for you. Yes. Good weather. Where have you just come from? I've just come back from Italy, actually. Hold on, was that after British Columbia? It was, yes. Okay, I get the idea. Good weather, good riding, good diet, healthy people. Explains that. Interesting data, Rich, on the time of day that people ride their bikes. Yes, seven o'clock. Seven, eight o'clock in the morning is peak time. And it blows my mind. I don't think I've ever been on a bike ride at seven in the morning. Whereas I now find myself going at six o'clock rides. Really? Yes. And why is that, Richard? Not for the love of it, I can tell you that. It's because basically the little one and the missus are still asleep. I can get out for a couple hours. Well, you're a lucky person to have a bambino who's sleeping that time of day. I know, that's right. That's why I go out at six to get back. I find that interesting. I'd love to see the sport-by-sport breakdown of this. Your bike is probably out in the middle of the day because they're all retired. Dude, I'm literally not up in the middle of the day. I'll be going out on my bike ride like mid-afternoon. Yes, exactly. Especially on a Sunday. After a Sunday roast, right? There was an average VO2 max. There is. What does that mean? It's the maximal amount of oxygen you can uptake while exercising. Right. Measured in millimoles. Have I got it on my Garmin? Yes, so this is all measured on the Garmin Connect. Was it 51 was the average VO2 max? The average VO2 max for all Garmin cyclists was 51. Data also indicates that the more miles cyclists recorded each week, the higher their VO2 max was, which makes sense. Little top trumps. Really? VO2 max. I've never looked at it. I look at sleep score. Oh, I don't want to look at that one. So I'll go first. Mine is currently 70. It's down from 76 in February. Okay. My VO2 max is also 70. Nice. Yes, mine is 69.8. But more importantly, Yes, hold on. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Your VO2 max is in the top 20% for your age and gender. Yours is 69.8. Let me see. Okay, can I just say your VO2 max is in the top 1% for your age and gender. Yeah, mine too. Oh, dude. That is amazing. That is superb. Mine is also in the top 1% for my age and gender. What I'd like to know is- Let me see yours a minute, Steve, please. Oh, a battery, dude. Okay, but underneath that- Sleep scores. No, no. Underneath that, it also says view your fitness age. Oh, get out of here. I'm quite interested to know. So mine is actually, I've got a fitness age of 18. And how old are you? I'm 27. That's brilliant. So I'm obviously 41. My fitness age is 36. Nice. So I'll take that. No, you guys are blowing me out of the water. My fitness age is 62, actually. That says that's your- I'm joking. I'm joking, I'm joking, I'm joking, I'm joking, I'm joking. You're reading your VO2 max. 56. 56? Yeah, can we get sleep scores, please? No, let's see your VO2 max a minute. I'm sorry, I swore there. I shouldn't have sworn there. What's your mental age? Does not compute. But what I think we can take from it is that obviously, so much data can be collated from Garmin, the Kinect app, the stats that it will give you, especially if you hook up to power meters and things like that. But interestingly, I mean- What's a power meter, James? You know what a power meter is. But interestingly, what I think is that more people are using data than ever before. Certainly for us racing, we used it daily, during the race even. You know, I used to think it- I didn't think it was a gimmick, but I used to think like, I very much think you should listen to your body and train off feel and sometimes data can inform you the wrong way, but actually since I've started using it, I do believe in it and I do use it. Because sometimes I think your Garmin can say, you're fresh and you might not feel fresh, but actually I do use it a lot more than I thought I would to inform me. I've always used head units, but I've never had a smartwatch like I used to have before. I can't believe- So it's got the HRV status thing on it and if your HRV status is in the bin, it normally means you're going to get ill in a couple of days and nine times out of 10, it's correct. If my HRV status says it's low, two days later I'll be sick and I can't believe how- Just for those who maybe don't know, what's HRV status? It's heart rate variability. So I think it's the difference between your diastolic and systolic- Oh, this boy's on fire. Correct me in the comments if I'm wrong, but I think basically if it's the same all the time, it means your stress levels and health is good, but if it goes up or down, it means something, you've maybe over-trained or your sleep's been bad and it will inform your overall health levels in a way. Rich, these seem such wise words from someone with the mental age and physicality of a 16-year-old, right? 18. 18, yeah. It's been proven it's 18. No, but it's- I mean, obviously, you know, James is like our top NXE guy. He does know. So I'll give you an e-mountain bike perspective on Garmin and all that, is that I've started running, have I told you? Oh, yeah, you mentioned it. Finding my heart rate, right, I'm in zone three, but my e-mountain bike rides are frequently like zone four and five. I'll use my Garmin to make sure, I'll try and go and do an e-bike ride which kind of surpasses the last one in terms of physicality. The chat years ago was like, e-bikes make you lazy. I think I use it to keep me honest. I really like it, and it's a great tool to have. And the great thing now with Garmin is it's connected to such things as the Bosch system and stuff like that. Connected to the Bosch system, which is wonderful. Yeah, a great briquette. Yeah, it just, you know, the data release baffles me and the data that can be used nowadays I always find is actually so interesting. You can actually get baffled, can you? Baffled? Okay, right. I do enjoy it right now. Like sometimes when you're doing the hardest training week of your life and then you look at your Garmin, it's like unproductive. And you're like, Oh God, I just smashed it. So that's it. Means after this, every day after this race, it basically said, it recommends a recovery time. Yeah. Because it can work that out from the power and all the data you essentially fed into the computer over the course of the race. And every day was like 70 hours recovery. I want to go into my HRV now. Oh God. My HRV is balanced. Yeah. So that means you're ticking along nicely. 41 MS. Yeah. Is that good? Well, the thing with HRV is, there's no like good or bad. It's about being consistent. Yeah. So like some people have 100 MS, but it doesn't mean the better. It just means if it's always 100, it's good. It just needs to stay that same level. Dude, 40 beats from resting. That's good. 48. Yeah. Crikey. You need to be careful. You need to be careful of the side of that is. It's not. Okay. Well, let's do say your heart rate goes down with age though. There we go. Yours should be lower. Should we move on? We should move on, but do let us know in the comments below. Are you a data-driven rider? Do you use data? We'll also put a poll up that you can answer as well, whether you go off numbers, off stats, or you just like to go or feel like James kind of used to. And let us know your fitness age and your VO2 max. Is it better or worse than ours? What was yours, Steve? Don't be baffled by Richard. And welcome, Owen, to section number three of the show. I've saved the best till last, I like to think, because this topic, it kind of really got me thinking the other day, and it is that bike designers or bike design, has it become boring? Have we stalled or have we reached a peak? Now, before I can see so much you want to say, this is off the back of kind of the XC bike trend at the moment. Now, Orbea released the latest Oiz with that kind of shock under the top tube mounted quite far back near the seat tube as well. We've got the Lux, sort of Canyon Lux looks the same, the Supercaliber from Trek, the Specialized Epic. You know, they got flex stays, they've got, what, 100 mil give or take either way. 120 now, come on. Well, the Trek's got 80. So it's, you know, I'm averaging 100 mil. You know, I get why they've settled on this design. It's stiff, it's efficient. It's got the right amount of travel, give or, you know, give or take. Minimal hardware, which again, saves weight. But it's boring. They all look the same. Um, okay. So there's a weird thing with birds. This is a segue. Have you got the bird app? I haven't, no. But Neil's got that. It's good, isn't it? Yeah, really good. Of course he does. You've got, I think it's Swifts and Swallows, which feed on the same insects, yeah? And they kind of look the same, but they're not the same. Their evolutionary route's completely different, but they've morphed into what they are because they're chasing the same thing. I think that's the same with a lot of bikes in the fact that what they're chasing and trying to do is perform well on a really, like, tight track. So I think that's why a lot of these sort of, like, designs converge. It's called convergent evolution for those kind of nerds out there of what happens. Because it's not just, there's fish that do it too, that look similar because they're chasing a similar prey. So I think that's what happens. Just to get this right then, so mountain bikers are now chasing insects? Well, some of them are. They're really quick. Comparable to birds. What insects are mountain bikers chasing then? Wow. Worms. Worms? Do you know what I think? It's a bit boring. Like, to me, I always, remember back at, Steve will definitely remember back. You both will. We're all really old here now, let's face it. Bike design was cool and there were so many different bikes. None of them really looked similar. There were so many different experiments going on. Have we peaked? Is that the problem? Have we found this design the best for its purpose? I'm talking about XC still at the moment. It works the best for what it needs to and therefore, because of that, we've settled on it with slight refinements here and there, but otherwise it's kind of that way. Well, I was just going to say to a degree, yeah, I think you're right. I don't think it's necessarily boring. I think there's a level of sophistication and nuance between all these different designs. So yeah, silhouette, it's probably a lot harder to see the different bikes, but there are differences. A bit like hardtails. You look at a hardtail and you're like, well, they all look the same, but they don't really. Just got to be a bit more nuanced. Yeah, they do. I think they do, but I hate to break it to you. So going back to your point, actually, experimentation took place because mountain biking was a new sport. It's still a relatively new sport. I tell you what, you can guarantee the mountain bike industry to be like sheep, right? You can. Another animal reference, lovely. Yeah, that is true. They've learned to copy each other, right? What's the latest thing? Those bar ends, right? I got my own new bar end. Oh, gosh, yeah. Oh, is that built in, that bar end? It's a built-in bar end. You haven't put it on the grip. You just put it directly on your finger. Yeah, do you know what I mean? But you can, though, can't you? 100%. One person has a go. It kind of does all right. So then they jump on the bandwagon. I would hate for there to be design for design's sake. You could argue there's a few brands doing that at the minute, maybe. Yeah. Yeah, I think there is definitely a function, no, form over function, where some people and some brands think that styling is more important than function. And for me, that really rubs me the wrong way because a mountain bike, I've done a whole video on why weight doesn't matter as much as we think it does, but it's still a factor. So if we add a fin on or a whoopty shape on, because I think it looks nice, well, does it actually function? Is it useful? I like a whoopty shape. I love a whoopty shape. Because I got a little bit excited the other day. I saw La Piez got a new cross-country bike. Yeah, it looks like a Spark from about four years ago. So then I was like, oh, flipping. But with a bucket for mud and water. Yeah, but do you know what I mean? It's like, it's not that different from a Scott Spark. Great bike back in the day, great bike now. And actually one of the few bikes with a vertical and hidden shock in the XC world. So it's like, well, at least they're pushing the boat out. They are, but then it loops back to this feedback loop of like, you've got to have two bottles on it. You've got to have two bottles on it. Well, there's certain requirements, right? Yeah, and that means that if you want to have the shape of bike that you do, which I guess it does make it boring because there's so many things that are fixed. Maybe 32ers will change that. Maybe we'll have some wild designs to kind of shoehorn those in, in a good way. But I guess downhill isn't quite as unified. It hasn't all pulled in a line, has it? No. Because there's a lot. Okay, we've settled on mixed wheel sizes being fast for most people. I think for taller riders, 29, 29 will work. Maybe 32, 29. You wash your mouth, Owen. I know, but I guess downhill hasn't settled. The tracks are settling to a bit. I've got some great examples here as well. Far away. So I think big companies are slightly more scared to push the boat out a little. So if you look at the silhouettes- Specialized? Scared? That's mad. Come on. Hang on. That bike's wild. It's got two chains. If you look, so does a Brooklyn. If you look at a Trek Session from over the years, not evolved. It has changed, but not evolved hugely. Neither has a V10. Specialized are a good example of how the demo looked very similar for a long time and then they rewrote the rule book on that one. Now though, we do have some smaller outlying companies really pushing the boat out. So to talk about downhill, right? So what you say is design getting boring, right? Yeah. If we just focus on downhill, a downhill bike and a downhill racer has two things to achieve on race weekend. The first thing to achieve is to figure out the puzzle, which is a downhill track. The line choice. Yeah. The amount of power you can generate from the terrain. And the second one is your bike setup. So the more you simplify that, the easier it's going to be for you to win a World Cup race, right? My second point is like, I've been fortunate to have ridden most downhill bikes over the years. And for me, I hate to go back to it. You know where I'm going, don't you? You know exactly where I'm going. I tell you. The Miliad bike, right? So there's the design element and there's performance gains. The Miliad bike, in my eyes, did have performance gains. For the mechanic, it had a single-sided swinging arm. Yeah. Easy to get the wheel off. Big bearings, big hooks, all that kind of stuff. It had a hermetically sealed drive train. Low maintenance. Chain can't get snapped during the race. It had the gearbox, which means the rider could go down through the gears or up through the gears without having to pedal. So performance gains there. Custom forks and shock as well, right? Yeah, custom forks and shock. Another story. I mean, it was there on a plate for the mountain bike industry. What did they do with it? Oh, no, we want to do our designs. They ran a mile. They ran a f***ing mile. Similar timeframe. Look at Honda. Yeah, I've got Honda in my little notes. Okay, yeah, because they're big notes. That Honda is a big note at the time, right? Yeah, I mean, well, that was an experiment for them and nothing more. Well, yeah, it was just an experiment, but what an experiment in the fact that we're now getting bikes. We, you know, I said about Specialized taking risks. Their bike's got two chains. I think there's similarities between that bike and the Honda. Okay, the Honda, you could argue, is still ahead. Okay, it's got little wheels and there's lots of other stuff where the geometry wasn't quite there, but it was still... It's got a 52mm bottom bracket. Right, cool. And I measured it and got told off. Sorry. Yeah, don't measure it. He didn't say that. He didn't say it really. But yeah, and it was, I guess, there was lots of hype in terms of what's inside the box and some, I guess, sadness that it was just a derailleur in a box. But that was still an advantage. But no one had thought of that. Not really. Wow. Not really. There's Buffalo Concept Designs who were making wild 29er carbon DH bikes with bonkers multi-track sort of like... So I say multi-track, the rear axle, because it had two shocks, would do different stuff. We'll try and find some random picture because that was wild. But again, people looked at it and went, I disagree. I've seen some beautiful downhill designs over the past six years. I'm not saying there aren't. Yes, you did. No, I'm exactly saying here, in downhill is where it's actually slightly different. Backpedaling. Which you couldn't do on the Honda, right? Backpedaling pain. You couldn't go backwards on that because it'd mess up the gears. Ah, yes, we're saying. I'm saying in downhill is actually where we are seeing some people, some outliers, push the boundaries like Gammax and my favorite so far that we've seen this year, Antidote. So they've got... The thing with the Antidote, Owen, is the Antidote the same as the Antidote from 10 years ago? Because that's probably the best downhill bike. Downhill bikes I've ever ridden. It was a mix of Kevlar and Vectran and something else, but do you know what a beautiful- Alligator skin and pixie dust and God knows what. A beautiful bike with a genuine pace to it. So this is Antidote Solutions, which is like a racing division of Antidote bikes, as far as I'm aware. So that would say, yes, it's similar. But I think where this bike is interesting and it kind of takes on, I guess, some of the aspects of Honda. Honda were really amazing. The fact they came in, they used the application of all their motorsport, all their motocross, all their moto trials to go, cool, how could we engineer and look to create a better bike? They also mimicked somebody who was doing something similar. And I guess this is what these Antidote guys are doing, which is not data capture, it's actual telemetry. So this is where you've got data coming off the hill and it's actually updating on the laptop live. They literally pride themselves, saying, oh, I'm rallying. I mean, they say this is inspired by F1 and MotoGP. Modular chassis, that's pretty, I mean, you could argue that you could change front and back ends of bikes, but modular chassis, data acquisition and real-time analysis. That's pretty cool, right? And it doesn't look like every other bike out there. It is super cool. I would say downhill is a far cooler sport than F1. Oh, I agree. But I think there's a bigger thing that I want to hook you into, is that Commencal slash Sun were doing this way, way. Way back. At least a quarter of a century, right? Yeah. Like those early Sun bikes that Nico, that Francois Garchet, that Gracia, ACC were riding, and having all the data and having the suspension set up with Olivier Bossard, they were light years ahead. Light years. So basically, I've been fortunate, again, to be, to go inside Olivier Bossard's place in Toulouse and he's got all the data from all the bikes. From those years. So they used to change linkages. They used to each probably have a different shock tune, different geometry. It's like, it's mind-blowing. And they knew exactly what they're going to do for different tracks. So like, it comes back to my point earlier, is like, it's always a compromise of downhill, right? Yeah. You're trying to do the best you can in a very small window. Yeah, that's the key. More complexity is not necessarily a great thing. I think just in downhill, that is where we're seeing people push the bar and try new things, especially in bike design and new concepts. Whereas I think, I feel like XC is like, settling. I think we need a poll of like, let us know on the poll, bike design, boring or is it changing? Are we seeing these stuff? And also, is it important? Like, it's a beautiful bike. Does beauty trump functionality? And who's going to catch those insects? Yeah. But gents, that weird note. Thank you very much for watching this week's show. Don't forget, let us know in the comments down below on all the things we've spoken about this week from the three of us. See you later.