St. Paul City Council President on the city's encampment plan

Just about four weeks ago, St. Paul Mayor Kali Herr announced plans to close the city's three largest homeless encampments. Tomorrow, the sweeps begin. St. Paul City Council President Rebecca Naker joins me now to discuss these plans. Rebecca, thanks for coming on the show. Thanks for having me. Okay, so starting tomorrow, the Pig's Eye Camp Encampment is set to be moved and cleared out. Do you support this move? I support a Housing First strategy, and that's something that the mayor has been clear about as well. So the difference with Housing First is that you're not just clearing an encampment. That's an approach that we've seen fail in so many other places. It doesn't respect the humanity of the people who are living there, who are our neighbors and who are my constituents in many cases. So Housing First really says we use an encampment as an opportunity to build relationships with people, figure out what they need and what help we can provide for them. And then when it comes time, due to public health, public safety reasons, when we have to close an encampment, we're ready to help each of those individuals move into housing, into shelter, into a space that meets their needs. There are a lot of individuals right now that are asking for a 90-day pause just so that outreach groups can come up with a plan and make sure that there are enough beds and resources for these individuals who are going to be displaced. Are you on board with that 90-day plan? I've been really consistent from the beginning, and I've expressed this to the administration as well, that we cannot close an encampment unless there is a plan to make sure that every single person who wants to be inside can be inside. And we have been reassured publicly over and over again that that will be the case tomorrow. And I am going on that assumption. I think that what we're dealing with here is a short-term issue, which is an emergency issue. We are seeing public health and public safety issues. It's not safe or dignified housing for those who are in the encampments themselves. And we're seeing the long-term crisis that has been going on for decades of defunding of affordable housing and supportive housing and shelter from the federal, the state, the county governments, all the way down. I think we need to use this moment, this crisis, as a way of saying to all of those other partners, St. Paul property taxpayers cannot bear the entire burden for the entire state and region alone. We need a long-term solution that involves all of those partners proactively, not just in response to an emergency. So I'm hearing you say that there are enough beds, that you guys as city officials have been assured that there are enough beds for those who choose it, who want it. We know not all will choose that. But there are certainly so many people in a public meeting today, so many people speaking out claiming that there isn't enough of a plan in place. So do you think this is a lack of planning, or was it a lack of making the plan public? Because at least some people in your community believe that there isn't enough of a plan. Yeah, I mean, I think this is a really emotional issue. I've talked with folks who are living in the encampment myself, and every single individual person is their own universe of need, of potential, of history and experience. And so, yeah, so it is hard work to make sure that we have a space for everyone that's going to meet their needs, and to build the relationships, and again, I think this is really important over time necessary to help them move into housing. We have been assured that that is going to happen. I also think it's important to note that the sense of urgency that has been created by this deadline really brought partners to the table. I was very disappointed to learn that Ramsey County social workers were not on site working with encampment residents until this closure was announced. That should have been happening months ago. So there is an urgency that is bringing people together in the way that the administration has set this in motion, and I think that that's important. Can you just talk to me about, you know, we've heard a lot about the health and safety concerns. Can you talk to me about what you know as far as public record for police and fire calls to these encampments? Yeah, and we have seen repeated 911 emergency calls, both for medical first response, which our fire department provides, and for police issues, crime like thefts, exploitation, drug dealing. And I want to be really clear, by the way, that these are often not the residents of the encampment themselves. The folks in the encampment are some of the most vulnerable individuals in our community. But what tends to happen when an encampment gets to a certain size is that predators take advantage of folks who are in those vulnerable positions and come to the encampments to try to do drugs, to try to do whatever they're doing. So I think that that's the biggest concern is really for the folks in the encampment themselves. And there's been immense emergency response needed to service this encampment, and that only continues to grow as the encampment grows. There's been reports today about a phone call that happened last week with the mayor that many said, you know, they were expressing they wanted an extension, they wanted to delay the encampment enclosures, and they were put off by the response they got by the mayor. Were you on that call? And can you comment on the tone of that call? I wasn't on the call, and I wouldn't want to comment on the tone. But I will say that from what I've heard about the call, I think there is a very real frustration that we at the city feel, and I've expressed this a little bit in this interview already, when all of the hardest, most complicated problems in our society come to our doorstep, and we with the fewest resources and the least capacity as cities are expected to deal with all of those pressing issues alone. And when we try to use our power to do what we can, when other partners in government sort of point the finger, I don't think that's helpful. I think all of us in this moment need to take our own responsibility, including the city, to help those in our community who are in need. And that shouldn't have started a few weeks ago. That should have been going on from the beginning, and again, I hope that going forward from this encampment closure, this can be the rallying cry to bring all of those county and state and federal partners to the table to say we need the long-term funding solution. We've seen this happen before where encampments get broken up, and then they just show up somewhere else. Those residents take up another location in the city. What is the plan for when those individuals show up elsewhere? What's the city's plan? What we've heard from the administration is that there's a strategic approach to not closing all of the encampments that we know exist at once. And that's really important because we, again, we want to take a human-centered approach to an encampment. We want to build the relationships with the individuals who are there. These are folks who don't necessarily have cell phones or email addresses, so it's hard to get in touch if you lose contact with someone. And we want to be able to build the relationship to help them move into permanent housing or get the supports that they need. The hope is that by closing PIGS-I first, really focusing attention on those individuals, figuring out who needs what kind of assistance we can really triage, then those individuals who might go on to another encampment, we're able to tackle those in more manageable amounts. And again, be able to take the time to fill up and free up more shelter beds, more hotel rooms, more faith institutions. There are a lot of partners coming to us now willing to help. And so I think, again, this urgency of this moment is opening up capacity that will hopefully help in those other spaces. Wonderful. All right. City Council President Rebecca Naker, I so appreciate you joining the show today and breaking it all down for us. Thank you.