Who are the Yankees Trade Targets? | Pinstripe Post

Hello and welcome to a bonus episode of Pinstripe Post. I'm Ryan Samson, but he's the star of the show, Joel Sherman. Today is Friday, July 24th. Joel, we're a little over a week away from the trade deadline, so I thought I'd get you back on here to talk about some of these names that we're seeing out there with the rumors going around. It's crazy, the hot stove season right now. But before I get to any of that, as always, I got to start. How are you doing today, sir? Oh, you're always nice, Ryan. You always ask. So I want to make sure I send it back. How are you doing before I answer? I'm good. This is the grind. But you are grinding more than anyone else right now. This is a time of year, you know, like I can't... I had breakfast with somebody in the industry this morning who I thought might know stuff that's going on. I hope the phone likes paying my bill on text message. There's certainly been a lot. There's some calls I made walking home from breakfast. You know, it's just you're trying. It's liar's poker. There is a certain amount of blindness. And by the way, justifiable blindness. We are talking on Friday afternoon. The deadline is a week from Monday at 6 o'clock. And when I ask people, do you know who's in this market or not? They are still telling me that it will go through at least this weekend. I had multiple executives say, I think some teams will push it to next weekend to declare buy or sell. And what makes it fascinating, Ryan, as the big picture thing I would leave you with right here, is if we decide the two biggest names who could be traded in this market are Tarek Schuble, the starter of the Tigers, and Mason Miller, the closer of the Padres. Those are two of the teams in the middle trying to decide whether they buy, sell, etc. And they both have pressures to do both sell and to buy. For example, I know we'll get into it. The Yankees, more than anyone else I think, want Mason Miller in this marketplace. So, for example, I'm just going to throw out a name. I'm not sure the Mets would make a trade with them. But I think they like Luke Weaver a lot also. Well, you can't spend the capital on Luke Weaver and then find out three days later the Padres are trading Mason Miller and something they wanted, it was in the Weaver trade. So part of the delay here is, especially if you plan on eating at the top of the market, is you have to wait a little bit to, even at this late date, I know it feels like a lot of fans and, trust me, a lot of reporters and a lot of executives are like, come on, man, let's go. But until some of the teams fully declare and you know the full marketplace, it's hard, like again, I know we're going to get into all of this, but say the Yankees wanted Shea Langeleers and he was available, which I don't know if he is or he isn't. Do they have to know if Adley Rutschman is getting traded? Do they have to know if Hunter Goodman is getting? So there's just still enough moving parts that, and look, the one thing is, starting about five years ago, Waver trades were removed. Remember, it used to go to August 31st. The last one the Yankees ever made was Andrew McCutcheon in, I think it was 2018. Used to be if a player gets through Wavers. So there was a little leeway to not do something before this trade deadline. 6 p.m. on Monday, a week from Monday, is pencils down, Ryan. The test is over. That is really your last moment where externally you can improve your team. So you want to fully know what's available and what the true costs are. Because, again, deadlines create real negotiation or create deal. A team could still ask for its A package back today, but Saturday, next Saturday, next Sunday, certainly next Monday, they might say, I got to really get this money off my books, and I'm willing to say, you know where I asked for these four guys? If you give me three, I'll do it. So fans know that's part of what's going on is as close as the deadline seems, there's still not full definition of the deadline. No, I mean, part of that definition, Joel, is what you're hinting at right now. I mean, the Tigers are looking at four games back of the wild card right now in the American League. The Twins, we've heard Ryan Jeffers' name. Maybe that's something we're going to mention a little bit. They're two and a half games back in the wild card. So some of these teams that you would think might sell some of these bigger pieces, they still have to figure out where they're positioned right now in the season, whether or not they want to go for it or they want to sell off some of the pieces that they have that are worth the value. So I think for this episode, what I want to ask you is, who are three names that you think are realistic that Yankees fans like myself should be watching over the next week and being like, all right, maybe this is someone they could be targeting, and what that package back could potentially be? Well, this is the moment where I know I'm about to waste my breath and say, this is based on reporting, and none of it may happen. And our aggregator friends are not going to care about that, but I am willing, because people are nice enough to watch this, I'll share with you what I'm hearing. And I think that there's two things the Yankees want to walk away with from this marketplace 100%, which is a really good reliever or two, and a right-hand hitting catcher who can hit lefty pitching and maybe even play halftime, if not more, with Austin West. Yeah. And if there's a third thing, I would put it someplace between righty bat, probably extra righty bat with some flexibility, and or an extra starting pitcher that might make the ability to trade a Ryan Weathers or Will Warren a little easier, and or, this is me, I don't sense it from the Yankees, which is still middle infield. Yeah. And I do not sense, when I talk to non, not the Yankee executives, executives elsewhere, and I say, what do you feel from the Yankees? Ryan, if they're looking for middle infielders, it's not happening to the group of people I'm talking to, which again, those are people who talk to me. I don't talk to all 30 teams. Right. People on teams I talk to who are not final decision makers, who might not handle everything, but just so I always want to be transparent to people nice enough to watch. I'll start with number one. I think if the Yankees got Mason Miller, it's almost anything else that would happen after that would be thought of by them, and I think probably guys like you who are Yankee fans and other fans as a huge victory at the trade deadline. Will Mason Miller be traded? I hate to give a number like an odd, like 50-50. If I had a guess, I would go lower than 50-50. I don't think the Padres want to trade. I think they want to go for it. I think that becomes a little harder and harder for them as this goes along because they have so many issues that they must solve, and they need multiple starting pitchers, and I talked to somebody in the last 24 hours who's like, I have no idea if Joe Musgrove, Hugh Darvish, or Nick Pabetta are pitching again this season for San Diego, and they might need three or four starting pitchers to feel good. They need a bat, one at least, maybe two, and you know what they don't have a lot of right now? A lot of collateral because good for them. They've really gone for it these last few years, and so they're not as stocked, but conversely, this is the greatest period in the history of the Padres. They've never made the playoffs this often in their history as they have in this last five- or six-year period under A.J. Peller. They've never had crowds like this. They draw over 3 million people a year, and they have new ownership coming in that's going to get approved sometime in August, and so there's a new ownership as their first act would like to be explaining why Mason Miller is no longer a Padre. Now, I think it could be fan-friendly to just be honest. I always be honest with your fan base and say we can keep him, but having a great closer on a not-great team is like having a great roof on an outhouse. The fact is the ball doesn't get to Mason Miller with a chance to win enough with San Diego. They could turn around and get four or five players from Pickett, Seattle, the Yankees, maybe Tampa Bay, maybe Milwaukee, maybe the Dodgers. If he's out there, they can do a lot of restocking. I think that what the Yankees have is an ability to use Ryan Weathers and Will Warren as a front piece of, hey, you don't want to give up right now, right? Adrian Morihone or Jeremy Estrada or Jason Adams gets healthy, can close. Can they close like Miller? No. You know why? No one on the planet is going to close like Miller, so everything's going to be worse, but your bullpen would stay somewhat strong with a legitimate closer without him. You can get a starting pitcher who goes right into that weak rotation right now, right? You can get, again, I assume, let's say Lombard is off the table, and I'm not sure you could take him off the table in this trade, but let's just say he's off the table, and there's going to be other minor leaguers involved, Dax Kilby or Henry Lane or Carlos Legrande. They could also say, if you're trying to win, does Anthony Vogt be playing second base? Is it a better option than what you have with some control? You don't hit enough home runs. Do you think Spencer Jones could go to center field for you or left field or whatever and help your team or Jason Dominguez? I think there's some extra stuff. Again, I don't want this misinterpreted. Joel said Anthony Vogt could get Mason Miller. It's going to take good stuff, the stuff that's going to hurt the Yankees to include in a trade, but the Yankees might be able to help their major league team right now when San Diego wants fans to keep coming and doesn't want to quit. But you know what? So could Seattle. Seattle has six starting pitchers in their rotation right now. You know what else they have? The number one pitching prospect in the sport, Kate Anderson, ready to come up right now. By the way, they have one of the other better prospects, Ryan Sloan, who will be up next year. They have Logan Evans coming back from Tommy John next year. So could they take a Bryce Miller or an Emerson Hancock? So if he's really available, it is going to hurt the Yankees so much to go get this player. It's going to be like where you just can't say, well, that guy's off limits. It might take Lombard and then you're going to have to decide. Do you really know Lombard to me? I think the Yankees are holding back on Lombard until after the trade deadline, because if you send Volpe to the minor leagues, does it bother anybody in the industry a little bit if you're thinking of trading for him? They think so little of them. So I think that George Lombard is an August 3rd and after decision. And I think he is a decision for them. And if he is playing shortstop sometime in August for the New York Yankees, I would be 0% surprised. And I think the Yankees very much in any trade might just say everyone else, but not him. And then can they pile enough else in it to do? So you have to play the game if it's not Miller. Why? I think you've got to give a call to Cleveland and say, would you trade Kate Smith? My suspicion is they would not. I do think Toronto has gone into sell mode, but that's probably their walkier guys. Kevin Gosman, George Springer, Dalton Varshow. Tyler Rogers has two years left after this. Can somebody talk them into Tyler Rogers? Maybe. But the question is, would they try to restock big with Louis Varland, who you could argue after Miller and maybe Durant has been the best guy? Sure has. Like Kate Smith? I don't. I would think not. But I think you've got to make the phone call. So now you get to the next level. The next level to me includes, hey, San Diego, you're going for it, but you don't want to trade Mason Miller. But Adrian Morihone is a free agent at the end of the season. He does. But by the way, I'm about to say he does what the Yankees like. He does what everybody likes. Wipes out a ton of people and keeps people on the ground. So if you're thinking of – and doesn't walk a ton of guys. Like in a relief pitcher, we're drawing it up. Oh, I'd like a lot of strikeouts, a lot of ground balls, and not a lot of walks. He does that. Would you like to take a couple of our guys for a walkier guy where you still have Miller and all those other relievers, where maybe you take a shot at it? Maybe that's the trade that Ryan Weathers is in or Will Warren is in is to get someone like Morihone. So I think that he's that kind of guy that's in it. Or maybe Jeremy Estrada, if he's healthy. Or if they thought – I don't think Jason Adams is going to be healthy enough by the trade deadline where you could do it. Here's the other one, and I think it's a good $64,000 question. Would the Yankees and Mets trade with each other at this time of year? In Brian Cashman's time, they have traded player for player at the trade deadline one time in nearly three decades. The Yankees acquired Armando Benitez for three nothing pitching prospects and flexed so much of Armando Benitez that within 10 days they traded him again for Jeff Nelson to Seattle. So it was a very minor trade. The Yankees still love Clay Holmes, and the Yankees still love Luke Weaver. Now, I would think whatever the price is on those guys, and they will have good prices, would be – if it's $1.10 for everyone else, for the Yankees I think it might be $1.25. Because look, we both have friends who are Met fans, right? This has been a horrible, horrible year for them. If you were thinking about what would make it worse, it would be Luke Weaver and or Clay Holmes going to the Yankees and helping them get a parade. That would be a storm flushing moment if it happened. So I think that David Stearns is a pragmatist, and if he's going to move one or both of those guys, it would probably be for the best package. Does somebody like Steve Cohen step in and say, I don't care what the package is. You can't trade them to the Yankees when our fans hate us this much right now. But those are kind of the guys I'm thinking about and the Clay Holmes one goes into your rotation now, folds into the bullpen in October. I mean, Yankee people love Clay Holmes. Like, Clay Holmes is not a Yankee anymore because of any burned bridge or anything like that. He got a lot of money to start, which he wasn't going to get with the Yankees. But he has nothing but a fan club in the Bronx. I think all of the names I just mentioned are of interest to the Yankees, and all of them for a variety of reasons are very, very, very tough to get. And if you forced me to pick a guy, I would pick Morihone as kind of a middle ground guy who makes a lot of sense even for a San Diego team that doesn't want to give up to go ahead and maximize right now. And I could see the Yankees trying to do a lot to try to win. And then the question becomes like, is that a place where you get your extra righty back by saying, we'll give you those guys if you make it Morihone in Thai France. For example, like a right-hand hitter who can play a little third when you don't want to play McMahon against a lefty. First base is not a big deal if you're keeping Goldschmidt, but in theory he could do that. He's a guy on the bench. Do you think he's better? I think it's probably becoming a little harder and harder for the Yankees to think that Omar Rosario is going to make it to the finish line with him because he was so good for about six weeks and it's really gone bad. So I just wonder if that's a place they have to upgrade by the time this is all done. Then there's a next level down, Emilio Pagan, players like that, where it's like you start thinking more, these are seventh inning guys on a championship team. And I think, look, you know what the reality is. Why I would move heaven and earth to try to get Miller is pretty simple. I think by the time you and I on this show start talking about bats, as much as we can make a case the Yankees need bats, it's my thing I say on this show all the time. There's not a store on 35th and Madison where you could just buy bats. It's going to be a horrendous market for bats. It's like the free agency class coming up, right, Joel? Correct. It's a bad market for bats. And I think the Yankees might have to double down on run prevention. And this is why Miller is a dream. And it might be beyond possible, the impossible dream. But if you had Bednar slide to the eighth and Miller in the ninth, and now you have that other group of Hedrick, Cruz, Blackburn to work fifth, sixth, seventh whenever you did. By the way, you might get Clark Schmidt back as a hybrid guy to join that at some point. You might get to a point with a fully healthy rotation where you have 13 pitchers you're comfortable pitching in a postseason game. And what you are going to go for is extreme run prevention at the highest level so that if you're having trouble getting to three or four runs regularly, you are in every game. As we've seen, the Yankees aren't losing recently because they give up too many runs. It's because they score too few. And I'm not sure that this marketplace is going to help them score more. So you might have to have a situation. And no team in the history of the sport should understand the value of turning a game into a seven-inning game like the team that had a dynasty because it had Mariano Rivera. Now, nobody is Mariano Rivera. Nobody, including Miller, is Mariano Rivera. But he's pretty unicorny. And if this is the version of Bednar you're going to get to the finish line, you might be telling everyone else in the sport, hey, if you don't have a lead after 21 outs and seven innings, good luck. By the way, it's been a long time since Brad Hedrick has given up runs. It's been a long time since Paul Blecker. Maybe I'm shortening the game to 18 outs. And by the way, the front 18 outs are Cam Schlittler, Max Fried, and Garrett Cole, and Phil Carlos were done. I think that in this marketplace, if Miller is available, and again, I have no idea, but if they could get to Miller, I think you have to experience the pain and go get Miller because the shortest distance from here to the Canyon of Heroes is taking what's already, by the way, the major league leaders in ERA. These are no slouches today. And literally beginning a game by saying, good luck scoring against us. Good luck if you don't have the lead after the fifth or sixth inning against us. And I think because of that, they need to experience pain if Miller is on the market and do everything they can to win for him. While it does not address the reason they are losing in the short term. But I can't buy a five-room house if they're not available. So I have to get the best three-room house. You know what I mean? It just might be that what you want is not available, if that makes sense. It does, Joel. I see the path that you're talking about. If they were to lean fully into it, if Miller were to become available, why they would go fully on board in trying to get him, it would be delicious as a Yankees fan, I won't lie, to see something like that. And obviously, like you said, it would hurt. But at the end of the day, prospects are prospects. They're not up here. You're going for it this year. This is what this is supposed to be. You're hoping Aaron Judge can return in September, probably, if you can get lucky then, and make this team whole. All right, so the relief pitching is one thing. The right-handed catching, you had alluded to it earlier about how maybe half or even more. Now that, to me, since from what I'm hearing, being a big-time catcher, who are some of those names that we should be paying attention to there? Yeah, look, take it for what it's worth. Austin Wells, for about his last six or seven games, has hit the ball a lot better. I don't know what that means. I think the last time we did a show together, I mentioned something that Paul O'Neill told me 30 years ago during the dynasty, which is, if you win a championship, everyone had a good year. And I think that someone like Austin Wells has to convince himself there's nothing he can do to make his numbers pretty for the season. The most encouraging thing about Austin Wells to me over the last week is he started to draw walks again. When we liked him, when we would talk about him in previous years, when we thought he was a good hitter, he was constantly drawing walks and hitting in good counts. He had become such an easy out who never got on base beyond hitting the ball occasionally. And so if I was looking, and it's a week, man, you're talking about small sample size, they need a catcher. I'm not here, but I'm not saying it's impossible that you're going to get a better version of Wells the rest of the year. And by the way, even if the Yankees get a catcher, they could really use a better version of Wells the rest of the year, because if it's a right-handed hitting catcher, you'd still like Wells to get tons of reps against righty pitching. So let's deal with the top. I know there's a lot of Hunter Goodman talk. I put it at a very low percentage without saying zero because I think he's the kind of player the Rockies are not talking about. But if you want to make a phone call to them, they'll listen. And to move it is going to take, I think, a package the Yankees aren't going to be comfortable with, especially the publicly available stuff on Goodman is he's a good catcher. But I have talked to multiple executives in the NL West and they've told me, ignore that guy. Metrics, yeah. They said he's going to end up a first baseman DH. Wow. And we can't ignore this. One of the reasons Austin Wells has continued to catch is he's an extremely good catcher. Yeah, and he was thought of as just a hitter, first baseman, preacher DH. And Ryan, this is like one of those things. At some point, we always have to say, it doesn't really matter what Ryan Sampson or Joel Sherman was. The Yankees... So Tyler Stevenson is a right-hand hitting catcher in his walk here for Cincinnati. He literally has the worst framing numbers in the major leagues. Literally has the worst... The idea that the Yankees would acquire the catcher with the worst framing numbers in the league when they were at the vanguard of making framing what it is today and continue to believe even in an ABS world, in fact, they believe it more in an ABS world, to steal strikes now, is valuable. I would say that's a hard one to believe. Now, these are the Yankees. They could be desperate. Hey, we've got to get somebody who hits the ball a little bit and we'll put them with our catching guy and we'll make terrible somewhat passable. Maybe. But I think it's got to be a guy who's better on defense. Shea Langelaers, I think, is in the same category to some degree as Goodman, though because he's closer to free agency and because he's already turned down an extension and because he's represented by Scott Forrest, I think you make the right offer, you get the player, I think. So this is what I mean by you have to exhaust the market to know what's available. The Yankees want to use their A package to get Miller. They don't want to, say, trade for Langelaers today, then find out Miller is available. Because, again, and I think you and I would have it in the same order, right? We'd put number one, Miller. So they've got to know, and I don't think the A's are in a rush to do this, so the A's could take it to Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and at that point, do the Yankees pivot with aversion? The A's desperately need pitching. The Yankees have minor league depth in that area that is close to or in the major leagues. So I think that they could match up. I think that it's still unlikely, and this is the moment where you need to know. The Tampa Bay Rays are looking for a catcher and have a better farm system than the Yankees' perception in the sport. The Chicago White Sox are looking for a catcher and they have a strong farm system. The Dodgers are worried about if Will Smith is coming back or not. The neck injury, yeah. And they need a catcher. So the Yankees are not running alone here. Now, I don't think the Dodgers are looking to expend big capital to get a catcher. I think they want more of a backup type, but they're also playing for third straight World Series. They're not just going to be like, oh, we're going to take Joey Barton, that's good enough. They're going to get somebody they believe could start in a playoff game if Dalton Rushman doesn't start, and they don't have Will Smith. So there's that. Adley Rushman just went on the I.L. for the third time, this time with an ankle injury, but I keep hearing it's not debilitating, going to keep him out a long time. Do the Orioles deal with the Yankees? Do they actually trade the Yankees a guy who is the number one overall pick in the draft ahead of Bobby Witt? I find that a little bit in the Met category. I don't think it's going to happen. And so I could keep naming other catchers, and all roads lead back to Ryan Jeffers. And I will offer this insight. Almost no team in the major leagues keeps three catchers in the major leagues. You know, you only have 13 position slots. People are playing matchup more than ever. Since the day Ryan Jeffers came back from his hamate injury two weeks ago, the Twins have kept three catchers. Why do they keep three catchers? Well, the other two, Victor Caratini and Alex Jackson, they do not have options. So if you were to go to two catchers now and then trade Jeffers, then you'd be scrambling for your other catcher. So I'm suspecting. Now it's also possible they trade Victor Caratini and they keep Jeffers because the Twins are... So this is one of those moments where you don't want to insult Twins fans. They're in the race. Yeah. They're in a not very good division. I think any fair rendering, if you look at the Twins from 20,000 feet, is they should maximize a walkier guy like Jeffers at a time where multiple good contenders need a catcher. And if you're still trying to win, then don't trade Joe Ryan and Byron Buxton now. You could do that in the offseason. But trade Jeffers now and you live with Caratini and Alex Jackson. You were playing fine with them. And go ahead and like, they need bullpen help. And like, this is one of those things. And again, if the Yankees do this, they're going to have to give up a good prospect or two. But one of the things the Yankees could do is say, hey, Jake Byrd and Camilo Duval are not working here. They are not working here at all. But they've got good stuff and they might just not handle New York. Do they help finish a trade because they go into your bullpen today? They don't really work in our bullpen anymore. We're going for a championship. We're not going to give them the ball in a big game ever again. I mean, we saw it. Will Warren pitched the other day instead of Duval. Crazy. Byrd got sent down. So to me, like, are those guys finishing pieces in a trade for like, where you include a good pitching prospect? Ben Hess, Bryce Cunningham, Thatcher Heard, you know, pick your guy who they might like, maybe another prospect in that. And we've mentioned this many times during the show, but because we're so close, I just want to mention it one more time. Brian Cashman, in his 30 years, has acquired a significant catcher one time at the trade deadline. It was Padre Rodriguez, who's actually a Hall of Famer, and he hated every second of it because even 20, 25 years ago, it was hard to integrate a catcher into your program this late in the year. And so he kind of vowed never to do it again, and he hasn't done it again. But he's at a crisis point right now. And he said to the media the other day where he said, catcher is a problem right now. And so if you were going to introduce somebody, it would probably be someone maybe your catching coach has a lot of familiarity with. And Tana Swanson was part of the, he did the video work literally on Ryan Jeffers when the twins drafted him, and then was one of their catching coordinators for Jeffers' first two years in the system before he came to the Yankees. So he is just the most logical guy. So if you're starting to build it, and I told you nothing else about the Yankee deadline, and they ended up with Morahone and Jeffers, that feels like par, right? Like you would walk away and say, they're better at catcher and better in the bullpen. Like they got one of the 15 best relief pitchers, and they got a guy who could start a playoff game at catcher. And it's an immediate upgrade offensively at catcher too. Let me throw in one thing about Jeffers you've got to worry about in the playoffs. He does not throw well. You know, he is not, it's going to be up to your pitchers to control a running game. And Max Fried's good at that, but that is not a reason to run away from this, because he's a good framer. His reputation is good game caller, and he's clearly a good offensive hitter, especially against lefty pitching. So like, I think he's the right guy. I also think there's other teams that have needs. One of those teams, the Rays, is actually ahead of the Yankees still in the AL East. They're not just going to like gift the Yankees something that helps them. On the other hand, the Yankees don't want to, so that's one of the reasons I think the Twins should act here, is I actually think they could get at least a bidding war between those two teams, if not the White Sox and Dodgers, and maybe some other team I don't realize wants a catcher, but I know those four do want a catcher. And so I think this is a moment in time where the Twins, like maybe try to have their cake and eat it too. Like they're not giving up by trading Jeffers, but they're still at a moment in their history where I think they have to look at it from 20,000 feet and what's good for the big picture. And if I were doing that, and I was advising their guy, take the Yankees out of it. The Yankees, Austin Wells is playing like an all-star. They should trade him to the Rays. Like I'm not doing this because, oh, this is better for the Yankees, whatever. I think they should trade Jeffers because he's a free agent at the end of the year who's probably going to make a nice amount of money because catching is hard to find. It's certainly the name that everyone keeps circling, Joel, and it's been like that for a while now. They clearly need to make this upgrade. Like you said, though, even if Austin Wells' seven-game stretch, you're encouraged by what you're seeing a little bit at the plate. It's been too long of a season where you can't live with what you've been getting offensively. Because even if Wells is going good, it's okay to have another one. Yep, completely. So you mentioned finally a right-handed bat, which is interesting because it's a little bit different than what we had talked about with Luis Urize, which I saw John Heyman's note last night about that on Postsports Plus, talking about how Urize, the fit for the Yanks, and we talked about this on the show, is it doesn't make sense really where would you play him. So can you talk more about the right-handed bat options you think that are out there and why Urize, if you agree or not, that he wouldn't make sense for them right now? So Urize makes sense if you could trade Jazz Chisholm. I've seen some stuff about moving Chisholm back to third base. I think that would be an unbelievable mistake. He was not real good there. Whatever you think of Ryan McMahon, if Max Freed and Rodon are in your rotation, and even to some degree Ryan Weathers, there's just a lot of ground balls to third base. You can't, you know, the Yankees defense, when McMahon plays third, if McMahon, Wells, and Bellinger, and when Judge plays, besides that, they're a negative defensive team almost every place else. I would not turn third base into a problem. I have talked to a lot of NL, like, you know, all those NL West teams I was talking to about Hunter Goodman? I asked the same question. Luis Urize's defensive numbers this year are very good at second base. As opposed to Goodman, they said, believe him, he is playing the hell out of second base. So if you told me there was a trade Chisholm and put Urize second, because I hear, look, I think if you acquired him, he'll do what you say, I assume. I've heard he does not want to play first base. So I think, could he? Yeah, but now, like, start playing the game out. He goes to first. Ben Rice goes to DH. Do you wave Goldschmidt? What happens when Stanton, if Stanton comes, I wouldn't make plans around Stanton, but he might come back. At some point, you're going to have an inflexible bench. So to me, if I'm going to get a rise, I've got to know I can trade Chisholm. And I would do that because I think one of the things the Yankees are lacking, even in this day and age when there's not a lot of respect for it, is I think they're lacking some batting average. Sure. I think they're lacking some get the ball out there, force the other team to play. And I think Urize would really help with that. Having said that, I also think the Yankees' greater need is a righty hitter. I would not ignore Urize if I could make a double move and I'm sure the Yankees are investigating. The Yankees, again, as opposed to whatever social media world things, are a very well-run team. The person I had breakfast with, we were talking about the Yankees. Again, somebody who is not affiliated with the Yankees and we've made the point. The Blue Jays got within a pitch of winning the World Series last year. They're in last place this year and are probably sellers in the next week. The Mets are spending $380 million in the same city and they're sellers at the deadline. The Yankees are in it every year and I think there's probably a little less respect for that generally than there should be. It's hard to be this good every year if they're this good every year. Having said that, they still obviously have needs. I think they need a righty back. Draw it out. I think Casey Schmidt of the Giants is the perfect guy. I think because he can play anywhere, he's had a breakout year. He hits lefties, etc. Do I think the Giants are trading Casey Schmidt? I think you would probably have to make an incredible offer that is unlikely to happen when what they're looking to do is get out of their moneyed guys, etc. But I would call the Giants and say, remember the Yankees made a big... You're most likely to make trades with teams you've made trades with. It means you think of value players in a certain way or whatever. It probably means they really extensively watched your system last year with Nilo de Val trade. So there's probably four other guys they liked that are sitting there in the minors. And I would at least say... Because I can make a case a little bit like Jeffers would become the primary catcher. I can make a case that Schmidt would become the primary third baseman. Though, again, I like the idea of him everywhere, playing a lot, and whatever. But I could put him at third and I would be real comfortable on both sides of the ball. What's the next one? So a name that's come up a lot is Spencer Steer. I was going to mention him. I wanted to know if that was real or not. Oh, I think he could be gotten. I think the problem for him is the Yankees think his best position by far is first. Okay. And they think he's not good in the outfield. Like, not good in the outfield. And so... Would that be the worst thing, though, Joel? I don't know if you put him at first and you put Ben Rice as a D.H. So you don't know when Stanton comes back. It's like the Louisa Rice thing. You have to be comfortable potentially releasing Goldschmidt or Stanton. Because you can't have just a non-functioning... Neither guy could pinch run. Neither guy's going in the field any place but first base just for Goldschmidt. You're going to have to come to peace with releasing really decorated players at a pretty late date in the season. And I don't think they're there. So I think that they don't want to get locked into a guy who's at first base. Because I think if you ultimately end up where you're like, I want to improve at first base a little, I think you can get an outfielder and put Bellinger at first base. If, like, everything else... I think their best defensive first baseman is Cody Bellinger. Yeah. He's so damn good in left field, though. That's why you don't want to move him. So I'm going to throw a name out. It's a player they've liked in the past. I think it's a player who can play all three positions. I think it's a player who could hit lefty pitching. And it's Lane Thomas of the Royals. Recent power surge. So, like, I would say ultimately, especially if they've got to use Dominguez and or Jones in a trade, but even if they didn't, would you rather have Jones and Dominguez in the minor leagues and Lane Thomas taking it fast, especially against lefty pitching and playing the outfield and having some versatility, at least in the outfield. He can't come to the infield. He's not like Schmidt or a little, like, stair where he can move around. And I would still, I keep looking for the player who's versatile enough to help them outfield infield. It's hard to find. Unless the Tigers become sellers and maybe they have some guys. And even then I'm not sure. So the Royals are open for business. Totally. They're going to trade Daniel Lynch. They're going to trade John Schreiber from their bullpen. You know, I think teams are going to come hard and at least talk to them about Michael Wacca. I'm not sure he gets moved in this marketplace because they want to try to win with Bobby Witt next year and Wacca would be part of that. So he's just like, he feels like the deadline is six o'clock on Monday. In the Austin Slater, it happened at four o'clock on the deadline day last year. That's what it feels like. We've exhausted everything else. We've told the Royals, if we can't get A, B, C, and D, we're going to come to you at E with this guy. Are you interested? And so, and now I throw it out to you, who's a Yankee fan. If the trade deadline ends up Maura Hone, Jeffers, and Lane Thomas, I look at that as kind of like a B trade deadline, especially because a lot of fans have their hearts set on bigger people, especially Miller. I think that deadline helps the Yankees, especially, and it's the duh moment. They need Judge to come back and come back in full. Otherwise, it's going to be hard to get to the finish line the way you want to get to the finish line. I think those three players with a healthy Rodan, Judge, Schmidt, again, it means health the rest of the way. They're not going to have that. Judge is going to regret something, but they do have a way, and again, who knows? Stanton's a wild card in this. We've seen Stanton dominate postseason series, and if he's fully going in your D-H spot, it's a real threat. Right now, they're too easy to pitch to. There's no threat. I talked to a coach for another team, and he was like, the only guys who really work counts are Grisham and Rice. He said besides that, we're throwing it like we're challenging. I've been surprised how bad Bellinger's been at the plate with working counts at least lately, too. The strikeouts are disturbing because it's not part of his portfolio when he's white. He's such a good contact hitter. I think I mentioned this last time. I talked to him, and I asked him if he felt he was trying to do more without Judge around. He insisted he wasn't. I wonder if he is, that it's just subconscious, and it's hard not to do it. But yeah. So I think like, am I going to be right about any of those three? I would bet against me. I bet I go 0 for 3. But if I were playing a game of what their deadline could look like if they don't get Miller, and again, we could play the game. If Scooble's out there, will they make calls on Scooble? Probably. Why not? Maybe the Tigers like a couple of guys the Yankees have that the Yankees don't love as much as they publicly say. So you got to take the phone call. But Brian Cashman seems to be kind of a literalist. Yeah. I think he's like Dave Dombrowski is like this with the Phillies, or wherever he's been, Boston, Detroit, when he was with the Marlins. If he needs... There's a lot of people in the analytic world who believe fully in the you can... To improve, you can score more or give up less. And they're like, oh, if I need a shortstop and I can't get a shortstop, I'll just get another pitcher and give up less. I think Cashman is a literalist. If he needs a catcher, he isn't going to get a third baseman. He's going to try to get a catcher. If he needs a relief pitcher, he's going to try to get a relief pitcher. If he needs a righty bat, he's going to try to do that. Now, I did say at the top of this that because bats are not really out there, I think that they, even though the strength of the team is pitching, in general, I think that they would double down on Miller just because they'd be so tough to score on in the postseason. And it's okay. And then, like, dream on it. Judge and Stanton come back. They add someone like Jeffers, another good righty bat. Now, you're rolling and you're like, if it is a series against the Dodgers or pick your team, you feel like there's more than a puncher's chance at it. And I think they're going to try for it. I do. I think if Miller's out there, I think it's a white whale for them. They're going to try like hell for it. But I'm not, here we are, nine days to the deadline, and I'm just not sure that player is getting out there. And if he gets out there, I'm not sure that the Mariners don't say, here's one of our starting pitchers that you really, really like, plus three prospects from a, probably a deeper farm system. And the Yankees are then scrambling around and seeing if the Mets will do Luke Weaver or if the Padres are in a full cell and will do Morihone or, you know, I'm sure there's a relief pitcher or two out there that the Yankees like the underlying data on. Is there a next Clay Holmes? Is there next Paul Blackburn? Is there next Luke Weaver? I mean, you can't be, you can't be discouraged, Rachel, if they miss out, like, let's say like someone outbids them for Mason Miller. You can't be discouraged. Like I'm sure Cashman has on the board, you know him more than anyone else. Like he circles like other names. Miller doesn't happen. Here are the other names we're targeting and going after. And I don't think that would affect ultimately their team. Like you said, Miller would be the more than just the topping. I mean, he would, he would truly take them over the top. It feels like in terms of where they're positioned. But I think if you address, if they address the bullpen and they get Jeffers or that right-handed catcher, I think like you said, who knows what happens with Lombard? That might be one more righty bad. That's significantly better than Austin Slater was last year. Like, like that, like somebody who actually starts a playoff game against the tough lefty, like Lane Thomas probably would, you know, I don't know if he's right. And he's been, he's been pretty good for like the last two months. And I, he's a player. This is the problem is I, I remember him with Washington and watching him play against the Mets a lot. And this is why I probably can't be in charge of something because as opposed to data, I like Lane Thomas as a player. So I've probably overinflated him here. And maybe even that the Yankees have a sincere level of interest. He's a player. I like historically. He's not that player anymore. Is there enough still left that he would help the Yankees? I like the player, you know, it's, it's one of those things. And I actually am a person. I like arise for this team. I just think that it's a, it's chess moves. You got to make a bunch of moves to get arise, to make it happen. I would think seriously about making those moves. Like again, I don't, so I'm not going to mention a team, but I would say to a team for the player. We want this player X. We're going to give you all the prospects you want, but you have to take just for the rest of the year and then turn around and get a rise. Like that's the, or by the way, say to the giants, we'll give you the prospects for a rise, but you got to take chisel. Like we'll give you the prospects and chisels a free agent. The end of the year, by the way, if we do this today, you've got a week to try to trade them too. Right? Like, I, I think that the batting average in an era when people don't care about it, but I think when you don't have enough and the Yankees don't have enough batting average, the bottom of their lineup is two one 70, two Oh five, two Oh nine ish. I am willing to give away some slug and I'm willing to give away some on base percentage for a runner on third base. And this guy comes up, you've got to play defense against him because he's going to put the thing in play against any kind of lefty, righty, good, bad, indifferent pitcher. And so I think he, I like the player, especially because I trust the people I talked to in the NOS to tell me the second base play is real. Part of the problem is with jazz. This year is jazz. Hasn't played well at second base. Like I think it's in jazz to be a good second baseman, but he has not been a good second baseman this year. He has not been man. He almost cost them again yesterday, the last game by being caught, flat footed on a ball. And I actually think the guy was safe and they didn't get old. I did too. I was crazy though. And so to me, uh, I would get out of kind of the drama of Chisholm and a lot of things and get to the batting average and believe that if, and when judge and Stanton comes back, I'll make up for the home runs, the jazz. And by the way, jazz has had probably five hits that this year that have been substantial hits. It just hasn't been enough of them. No. And there hasn't been enough overall play. And I'd rather get to the batting average. I think that it's too complex. It's probably easier for me and you to talk about, Hey, I'm going to move this here. Then I'm going to make that. Especially in what? Nine days, eight days. Yeah. When, by when any team that wants Louisa rise might just say to San Francisco, here's the uncomplicated way for us. You know, like, like you could make a case. No team has a lower strikeout percentage in the major leagues than the Tampa Bay rays. They also have among the worst production at second base. I can make a case that he fits the rays, like, like glove on hand and that they're the team that should go get Louisa rise. Cause he also plays defense, which is something they like this year. At least you're getting defense out of, out of her eyes. So like, like it's the problem for all this. The Yankees are not alone in the marketplace for anything. Sexy. Brian Cashman's history is when he has a good team. And I think even though they've stumbled for a couple of weeks here, I think this is a good team. I think this is, they've got the bones of a really good team because they could pitch. Yeah. So well, like if they just hit a little bit, they'd be far better, but I think they've got the bones of a team that can win and win big. And that when he has that, he does make multiple trades at the deadline. That's his history. And I would be very surprised if I made the over under two and a half trades, I think he'll go over final thoughts, Joel. And this is my last question for you. If they're not as active as we're saying here to over two and a half trades, would that signal to you internally that Aaron judge is not coming back this year? This is a good question, Ryan. I like, look, I think the Yankees could be, I want to use the right word, squirrelly about injuries, but they have definitively said on the record, multiple people, including judge himself, that he is going to be back this year. So in less, this latest round of imaging was like, not only is it not healed, it's not close to heal. I don't know enough about, right. It's such a unique injury. It's such a unique injury, right? This is not a hamstring where I go four to six weeks or, you know, no bleep that's two months or whatever. This is a football injury of contact at the top of the body football injury that he got diving to avoid jazz Chisholm. Right. And then played with for about three weeks and probably made worse by creating a stress fracture because he felt the obligation to try to play through pain. And then the pain became too much as we saw, like his numbers began to really tilt downward in late May. And he's out now. And I'm, I'm not the belief. I believe a player like even recently, I know he first went on John boy, and then he said it to the, at a press conference that he expects Stanton back sooner than later. All right, cool. I'll believe it when I see it. And I'll believe he could put five games together in seven days when I see it. Like, that's what I believe at this point. I, I'll say this is, I would make no plans around half. I, I think you've got a plan as if you have judged back. Okay. Yeah. A lot of this is probably like, you're not going to quit because you do have itching. You could have the pitch. Absolutely. Right. Like, like they played the Dodgers pretty closely for all those three of those games. So, and that's as good as it's going to get in the sport. Can a team without judge win a series, maybe multiple series, maybe the whole thing, who knows? But like, I feel it's academic if they don't have judge. So I think you have to, unless their medical people are saying, you don't have judge. Right. And they're don't want to let the industry know how desperate they are. Right. Maybe we'll know something more at 6 0 1 PM on August 3rd. Yeah. They've traded for a bat. We didn't see coming and, or they admit to us that night. Oh, by the way, he's out for the season. He's now going for this procedure. Yeah. You know, thoracic outlets or whatever. And so they've been, they're always closed mouth about judge. Uh, they've been particularly closed mouth, but the one thing is they are on the record saying he's going to come back. And so I would never plan around Stanton because it's never going to be for very long. And I think that's sad. I actually, of the guys in the clubhouse who I like to talk to, I'm not sure I wouldn't rank Stanton number one. Uh, and he's not around as much when he's injured, he's mature and he has a more perspective and the ability to look at things from 10,000 feet. I miss when he's not in the clubhouse, uh, selfishly. Uh, I think the clubhouse misses him too, for that leadership part too. I think he brings maturity and a perspective. Yep. Things, things, uh, you could use in your life and certainly in a baseball clubhouse. So I think that it's a loss not to have them around, uh, selfishly for me. Uh, I like them. Uh, but even first career, he might not hit 500 home runs now, Joel. And I, but I can't, if I, if I'm advising Brian Cashman or I have Brian Cashman job, I can't be, Hey, don't get this guy because Stanton's coming back. I just, at this point, it's pretty close to a sunk cost where you just maybe have to, you know, he's got one year left. Do you just even say, let's just eat it. So we're not playing this game anymore and using a 40 man roster spot or whatever's going on. And I think that's sad. I, the guy's had a great borderline hall of fame career. Uh, and, uh, I don't like to say a sentence like that because that, it feels like I'm disparaging a guy and I'm not, I want, I hope that guy selfishly. I hope that guy comes back. Then the Yankees healthy. I actually want every player in the major leagues to stay healthy. I like seeing the best players play. Uh, I, you know, it's true in every sport. Like if I'm sitting down to watch a basketball or football game, I'm not like, Oh, I hope the quarterbacks hurt. You know, you want all the players to play and see who actually has the best team. Um, but, uh, I just don't think you could plan around it. It's just been too much for too long. Certainly feels like a fascinating stuff, Joel. Uh, thank you so much for doing this for us. Uh, like you said, nine days away from the trade deadline, lots happening. Uh, we'll see how it all unfolds, which teams lean more towards the sellers, which more of the buyers. And we're all going to be paying attention to that. Mason Miller. What happens there? Obviously Joel is. So, so, so I, um, one of my best friends is a Yankee fan. And he asked me, um, I think he's crazier than you. Uh, and he asked me, uh, what do you think? And I said, uh, do you root for the Yankees to win every day? And he said, uh, yeah, I said, root is hard that San Diego loses every day. Yeah. Because like at some point, I think unless it's so obvious to AJ Prowler, whose instinct is to go for it, that he has no hope. And look, because he has control of Miller for multiple years, he might even decide if they fall to 55 and 63 or whatever by the deadline. Screw it. I'll just trade more alone. I'll trade Jason Adam. Maybe if he's healthy enough, I'll trade a lot of them. I'm not trading Miller. Miller is great. I'm not, I'm in the business of acquiring great players. So I think that there's, even if he surrenders, he might not trade the guy. But I said to my friend, if I were a Yankee fan, like if I'm a Tampa Bay Ray or Milwaukee Brewer fan or someone like that, who's really made one Tarik Scoogle, I'd be like root for my team and root for the Tigers to lose. Joel, we appreciate you, man. Thank you. As always. Uh, we're looking forward to catching up with you the next week. Hope we get some rest, even though it's a busy time for you, man. No, it's a, it's a good time. You know, this is an interesting time. I know how much fans are, you know, this is one of those things is you hope you never do anything just into a void. And the number of questions I get at this time of year is a reminder that people really care about this. And it's important to kind of grind and see if you could explain and find out some stuff. And, you know, hopefully a show like this helps some Yankee fans through it all. It does. It's a therapy for us. Thank you, Joel. Peace.