Do Yankees Need More Than One Bat? + A.J. Hinch Talks Tarik Skubal Trade Rumors | The Show Ep. 210

I think we agree they're going to get a catcher or try very, very hard to get a catcher. Do you, watching this offense and having mystery about Judge and to some degree Stanton, do you think they need to add a bat someplace else as well? And if so, where and how? John, we're edging ever so close to the trade deadline, 6 p.m. on August 3rd. There probably is no bigger story than is he or isn't he, that is, is Tarek Scouble getting into the trade market or not? And we do have Tiger's manager, AJ Hinch, to discuss it with us. Yeah, Hinch is a great guest. We've had him on multiple times in the past. Good for him to come on here when we're about two weeks to the deadline. And that is the biggest question out there still, will Tarek Scouble be traded? So I'm looking forward to hearing what AJ Hinch has to say about that. Yeah, we'll cover that. Well, certainly part is asking him does he think the Tigers are real contenders in both the AL Central and for the wildcard and in the whole league with or without Scouble. John and I will do a deep dive at the top, especially on the Yankees, but we'll talk about the Mets' trade deadline situation as it approaches. We'll play hit or error at the end if you stick with us on the show with Joel Sherman and John. Well, John, another week has gone by and I will say this is the Yankees are comfortably the top wildcard team. They're a game and a half behind the falling rays. And yet it feels like at least the three alarm, if not a four alarm blaze in New York, because they just it doesn't feel right. Right. When you're watching it, the offense has been albeit they on Monday night against the the Pirates, they got their act together. But that was before that they had scored more than five runs once in twenty seven games. That was the second time that in twenty eight games they've done it. The offense has been so bad without Judge. The absence of judges just felt daily. The Yankees aren't like handling it great. John, just just focus. What what kind of team do you think the New York Yankees are right now? Well, I certainly would help to get Judge back. And we don't really know if he's coming back. They're expressing confidence that he's going to come back. But we really have no idea. They waited, what, how many weeks to retest them? And, you know, they said there was some progress. But what progress is there when they have to, again, retest them? And hopefully then he can begin making his way back. They will need Judge. Obviously, they have not been the same team. They've been a lot worse than I thought they would be. I thought they would weather this storm a little bit better. You know, you had a stat. Basically, they lose every year when he's out, you know, and they win winning with him, obviously. So he is extreme. And I'm not saying we don't know, but he's extremely, extremely valuable guy with him. They should be the best team in the American League without him. Let's say it doesn't come back. Can they get can they make it? I you know, in this league, almost anything can happen. They're going to probably get in the playoffs even without him. Right. I mean, how do they not? There's still more than 10 games over. Right. I mean, you basically have to be a 500 team probably to get in. So I still think they're better than that without him. So, you know, but the whole key is, is Judge coming back? And we don't know. We have no idea at this point. John, you know, I'll say this. The American League is obviously not very good, but, you know, like steadily, it was like usually like three or four teams over 500. I think we're up to six or seven now. And other, you know, obviously Boston is surge. We think Seattle got itself over 500. I think Texas is a game over. And I still think you're going to need 85 at least to get in. We'll see. Maybe I'll be wrong about that. But like both of us were talking about it when we were at the stadium over the weekend, we and you were so much better at this than me last year, that was the Mets. And it was impossible in mid-June to imagine the Mets wouldn't make the playoffs. They had the best record in the major leagues through June 12th. And when they began to play poor for the next poorly for the next month, I was one of those guys, okay, this is just a bad month, but they're a good team. They're going to pull down and they didn't. Now I think the 2026 Yankees are better than the 2025 Mets, but I think they've opened the door here of some 10% possibility that should and probably would get everybody fired if they somehow like just plummet out of this. And I think it's a bad reflection on everything about just how badly they don't just have like struggles. Hey, we lost seven to 10, but then we got it back together. Their struggles really last too long. And they look like they met each other in the parking lot and decided to play a baseball game at this point. John, I think they're going to be fine, but I thought the 2025 Mets, I said that almost to the end and you kept saying essentially in the nicest way possible, even for you calling me an idiot and I, and you were right that they were in much bigger trouble than I thought. Are the Yankees in trouble at all? Well, thanks for crediting for seeing, and I still thought the Mets would probably make the playoffs. I just thought those fan graphs, 95% were way wildly too high. I mean, to me, I was looking at it as more like 60% at some point with a week to go, not 95%. In this case, I do think the American league, I know that there are more teams now around 500 or slightly over. I don't think it's going to take 85 games. Took 83 last year for the Reds and they got in on a tie break with the Mets. You know, my guess, you're probably right. I was saying 500, I split the difference. It'll probably be 83. It's hard to see them not winning 83 games. It's not impossible. I still think it's probably 95% chance that they do get in, even if Judge does not come back or comes back late in September, which I think in September, it looks like the best guess at this point. I mean, I'm not on here saying I don't think he's coming back. I would say that he's more likely than not coming back. We just don't know. I mean, they have too much pitching to me to completely collapse. And so I don't see them winning 82 or 83 games and being, you know, left out of the playoffs entirely. They still have, you know, as much as I said, let's improve the bullpen. Their bullpen has still been good overall. And particularly at the back end, I got to give Ben our credit. I've been saying, go get a closer and making the setup, man. He's been a good closer so far. That doesn't mean I don't want Mason Miller for the Yankees. That would be fantastic. But they're starting, they throw out a serviceable or better starter every game, pretty much every game. Now they've had Elmer Rodriguez, who will be good at some point, I think, come up occasionally and throw a game. But I think compared to the other teams, their pitching is too good to not make it. Yeah. With the chances of getting much better, Fried and Rodan are both making strong inroads to coming back in a way like we're not seeing from Judge, right? Like those guys we actually see at the ballpark throwing the ball that Fried is out on rehab. The spillage of that will be that either Warren or Weathers could go to the bullpen. Clark Schmidt, I keep seeing at the ballpark and he keeps giving me thumbs up about how he's doing. I think he just likes you. I don't know. Yeah. But I think he could become a hybrid guy late. I do think they're going to trade for some relievers nevertheless, at least one, maybe more. Though to your point, Bednar, Hedrick's arguably been one of the two or three best lefty relievers in the sport this year. Cruz, notwithstanding the blow up the other day against the Dodgers, has been really, really good. Paul Blackburn has been really good. And I don't know what to believe about Angel Shibihi, but it's been for six games and you got to keep looking at it to see what it looks like. I think they made the right choice to get Jake Bird off the team. I think eventually that will happen with Duvall as well. But it does lead to this question. I think we'll agree to agree they're going to add at least one reliever, maybe more, and try to do the other stuff internally. I think we agree they're going to get a catcher or try very, very hard to get a catcher. Watching this offense and having mystery about Judge and to some degree Stanton, do you think they need to add a bat someplace else as well? And if so, where and how? Well, I shouldn't advocate against adding wherever you can add, but I think there are limitations. Realistically, I think the best route to go is to improve the pitching and to get a big hitting catcher. I think Hunter Goodman is probably unlikely with three years to go. I don't think Alon Delirious is too likely with a couple years to go. Brian Jeffers is the obvious guy. The Twins are trending down. I think he would fit into the clubhouse. The guy's got a 900 OPS. I would say get that catcher and improve the pitching. So, I'm going to live with Lombard as the shortstop. I don't know if you are or Caballero as the shortstop with Volpe. They've got three possibilities there. I'm going to bank that one of them is going to come through rather than give away prospects for Pena or whomever could possibly be out there. That would be my thought, that I would prioritize the catcher and bullpen and not worry about the shortstop issue. Yeah, you know, John, I would prioritize the shortstop issue. I think that Volpe and Caballero, I don't think, look, the Yankees, because of the pitching and judge, if they have it right, might win a championship anyway. I did see a World Series where Anthony Volpe was a starting shortstop. He played well. He played well. I don't think either guy is really a top-end starting shortstop that you trust. I don't know how much the Astros will sink. I don't know if Jim Crane will ever accept selling. I don't know if he sells, if he'd ever sell to the Yankees. But if Jeremy Pena were available, I would very, very strongly try to get that. Because I think if you don't, you do have to bring up Lombard and see. I think they will. I think they're going to bring up Lombard. I'm with you, John. I think they will as well. But it is a lot to put on a 21, 22-year-old in the middle of the pennant race to do it. But I know this is where metrics versus eyesight, the metrics like the Yankee shortstops. I'm not a big fan of Yankee shortstops defensively. I think they're okay. They're okay. Especially when Volpe plays, there's too many double plays not made. When Caballero plays, he's always trying to do this spectacular to me and botches the routine. I just think you need a steadiness there. And it comes with Jeremy Pena's bat, which is above average as an experience in the postseason, which includes an MVP in the ALCS and the World Series. I just think if he gets out there and the Astros would ever deal with the Yankees, I think you've got to think seriously about it. Yeah. I mean, I think they have faith in Lombard. I mean, the more you hear about what they're saying, it feels like Lombard is going to come up and they're going to test it out. I like Caballero better as a utility guy. And I get it with Volpe at this point. He's not providing any power at all. They do need a little more offense. Lombard, it's mixed reviews on the bat, but his defense is spectacular. I mean, we know the makeup from everything you hear is fantastic. I think they're going to give him a shot. I don't know. I mean, Crane does not like to trade and give up. He doesn't. So I don't think Pena has a great chance. It does feel like the Angels might actually be sellers for a change. What do you think of Neto? I kind of like him as a player. I love the offense. He's a bad defender. I think if you're going to win a championship, catcher and shortstop, it's a little bit my Hunter Goodman issue. And I don't know enough about Hunter Goodman. I haven't seen him play a lot. And we were talking about this yesterday, John, is the people I talk to say, ignore the defensive metrics on Goodman. He is not a good defensive catcher. So like I think and I think the Yankees and I understand they have to hold their nose a little bit because they're getting so little offense out of the catching spot. But they just they just really believe in the framing and the pitch calling and controlling a game. It's why Austin Wells is still in there. He's exceptional at those three things while not hitting at all, really. And so I just think they're going to be a tough time. Your point that you made is the right one. Ryan Jeffers is the perfect plug and play guy for them because he's good on both sides of the ball and he has history, lots of history, with the Yankees current catching coach. And so they feel they could probably plug and play him. So I just think that's the guy if they go there. And I think it helps on both sides of the ball. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not really. I mean, I just threw Neto out there. I think Neto, you know, I've seen him play. He's feels like he's got pretty good range. He is a little bit. He's a hit and miss a little bit at bat, but he's a good offensive player, obviously. I don't know. I wouldn't be stunned if his name comes out there, at least. I will be a little surprised if they do trade him. Abrams. Yeah, you know, he's a great offensive player also. So he's probably not going to fit their mold as more offense first shortstop, even if he is out there. And at this point, I would say not that likely. That's around 500. But, you know, we'll see. I mean, they could still trade some of their guys who are free agents. He's got a look. Big picture than that. Yeah, I think so. I don't know the first year guy in the executive chair there. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. But I'll live with this. I'll live with the shortstop situation. I think the catching situation needs to be improved. That's my thought on. Yeah. The one that I think is the dumbest. I keep hearing people try to associate Raphael Devers with the Yankees. I would say that Raphael Devers has the most underwater contract in the sport, perhaps. I think people forget what like just what his behavior was in a couple of different places now and things like that. I told somebody yesterday, they asked me and I said, that's like being hungry and buying a restaurant. Yeah, yeah, that make any sense. Like, like, like you have an itch right now, you scratch it with a one or two year guy. You don't bring it. That doesn't sound like something they would consider for a second. I don't know. Told you that came up with that. But I mean, you know, they still have some hope. I don't know how realistic it is that Stanton will be back. He's at the age Devers is at the age, I think, for most teams and for the Yankees, right? Yeah. Yeah. All right. Look, on the subject of misery, if I could go there, the Mets are 42 and 59. And I think over the next two plus weeks, they might trade more players than anyone else. And the question is, how deep do they dig? And, John, I'll just set it up and when I'm done, you just tick them off and tell me if you think they'll go. I think, obviously, Minter-Raley and, as bad as he's pitching, Peralta, because they're all in their walk year, go. I think Tyrone Taylor, somebody he's interested in, also in his walk year. He's a good extra outfielder who's actually hit a little bit this year. He goes. So those are the obvious ones because they're all walk year guys. And I think Holmes goes because I think, even though there's always talk about, can they extend them? It's Steve Cohn. Have your cake and eat it too. Trade them and then sign them back and do it both ways because he's obviously going to opt out at the end of the year. So I think it's that. Do you agree with me on those five? I do. Could they potentially keep Holmes and give him a qualifying offer? And then maybe that leads to an extension at that point. I do think he, provided he looks pretty good in the rehab, he probably is traded. I personally think they should trade the guys who have years to go as well because they're more helpful to a contending team. Isn't Luke Weaver more valuable? Weaver and Brazoban are the next. Now, Brazoban has a few years to go, but Weaver has one more year to go. So he's got one important year with the Mets plus this year. And if he's traded, he's got two years with another team. They should be able to figure out a place to trade Weaver. And I think that's true of Holmes as well. I don't think Lador is going anywhere. And I wonder, is there any hope to trade Devin Williams, Peralta, Robert? I don't want to pile on because I think David Stearns is taking even worse than he might deserve. I don't know, but he took the five big moves. And I love Simeon personally, but the five big moves, Peralta, Simeon, I mean, none of them have worked. None of them from the last... But 0-4 with four strikeouts is a golden sombrero. What's 0-5? I think they have a thing for it. I don't remember what it's called, but... Whatever it is, he's done the executive version of that. I think he has. Yeah. Right. Bichette. I mean, Bichette's been fine at third. He's fine in the clubhouse. I know he's been hotter lately, but he's still got less than a 700 OPS. It's $42 million. I mean, is he the fourth? He might have the fourth highest salary of any player in Major League Baseball. I'd have to look at it. Bellinger's higher at the moment, but not per year. So he might... Maybe it's fifth. But I mean, he's not a $42 million player. And then he's got the opt-out. So to trade him is very complicated. Although he is certainly more... There are teams that are going to want him because he is a very good player. He's not a $42 million player, but he is a good player. It'll be interesting to see. I don't think Lindor is going anywhere. I think they want to win next year. I think you can make up... As much as we love Luke Weaver, and he's a friend of the show, I think you can find a reliever. You cannot find a shortstop on the free agent market who's a 30-30 shortstop. And I think this year is kind of a fluke for Lindor. I mean, he's still a terrific player. The best shortstop who's a free agent is J.P. Crawford. He's hitting like 210, right? I mean, I know Lindor's not hitting well right either. But I mean, you've got Mateo as a free agent shortstop. You've got Ha Sung Kim as a free... I mean, none of these guys can be the shortstop next year if you want to win, right? You've got to hope that Lindor and Soto can be the lead guys of a winning team. So I don't see... And he's got full no trade as well. So there are a number of reasons why that's not happening. But what do you think? Can they deal any of these other guys who they obtained last year? I mean, Semyon's... I don't see that one, right, at this point. Because he's played enough for people to say he may not be that good anymore, right? But could they trade Polanco or Robert? We think they can trade Peralta, but can they trade Devin Williams? That was the fifth of the moves. Yeah. You know, Jon, just to double down on Lindor, you mentioned the shortstop. It's just a bad free agent class for position players. So if the Mets want to revisit this in the offseason, his five at 160 will look a lot better whenever we play baseball again and whenever there's an actual free agent market. Right. You've got to take a chance that he can do the 30-30 thing again and he can be the shortstop that he's been. I'm with you. I think he's still a really good player and I expect him and Bichette to both play well the rest of the year for whatever that's worth. And I think potentially make them valuable in a bad free agent market for position players. If the Mets are sitting with Bichette at two at 84 and Lindor at five at 160, they're both underwater a little bit. But comparatively, if Jas Chisholm is the best free agent hitter available or Gleybert Torres, I think that they could at least revisit it in the offseason. They have other stuff to do here. And I'm with you. I would do everything. I would move Weaver. You mentioned Brazoban has more service time, but he is older than people recognize. I think he's like 36 years old. And he's at his peak of probably value right now. And seriously, my conceit if I'm David Stearns is in a crappy year, I did put together a pretty good bullpen. I believe you could at least do that again and go get the extra pieces now. I would do all that. My only thought on them being able to trade the guys you mentioned is can they bundle some of them and take on a distressed asset like Willie Adamas? Can you put two of them or three of them together and say, hey, San Francisco, we'll take Willie Adamas off your hands or Devers? Or is it worthwhile to say you've got to take Senga, Simeon, and Polanco and we'll take Devers or something like that? Yeah. That'll be a funny trade. How do the two teams sell that trade? We got rid of the worst guys. We're happy with this trade. Our guys that we traded are worse than the one we're getting. Yeah. By the way, I wouldn't do it. If I'm the Mets and I have Steve Cohen's money, the one thing that David Stearns valued and prioritized was to shorten the years on orders. So I just, instead of thinking on something long and bad, I'll just create dead money by eating the bad contracts or try with Polanco and Simeon again. I do think, I'm not sure about Simeon. It just feels like he got old quick. I think Polanco, if he could get his, I think as a DH, get him off the field, I think Polanco will hit. Can they get his legs good enough to hit 110, 120 games next year? And then maybe- I mean, the guy's a good hitter. We've said that when they signed him, they got a good hitter when he plays, certainly, but what's that worth as a value, a DH who's a good hitter? I mean, he's not Stanton. He's not Devers as a hitter, right? He's a good hitter. Teams don't want to tie up the DH spot. The Mets didn't think they were doing when they signed him. They thought he was mostly the first baseman, right? So yeah, these guys don't really have any value, I don't think, in terms of trading them. I think you just got to live with them and or eat them or give another shot at what you think it looks like. I mean, they totally turned over the last year's team, which won 83 games, right? And now we're going to come back with the same team that's going to win way fewer than 83 games. That's going to be a little bit odd. Maybe there'll be a way. It is funny that the free agent market, the two best hitters possibly are Jazz Chisholm, number one, and Glaber, number two, Yankee second baseman. I mean, neither one of them. I mean, they're both very good baseball players, obviously, but it's pretty clear. There's not only no one Soto out here. There's no perennial all-star on the market. I think Chisholm is the best of the whole group, and he's showing that the last couple of days. I mean, they're good players. Dalton Voorstra is a good player, Rosarina, but you're not rebuilding the offense. So to trade Lindor, even in the, and that's easier to do in the off season, right? But even in the off season, why would you want to trade him? I don't see it. Yeah. Look, it's not been a good run for David Stearns in the Mets. A team that got off as bad as the Mets was the Detroit Tigers, but since June 1st, they've been one of the best teams in the major leagues. And they're, are they, are they not in the race? Does that mean they're going to trade or not trade Tarek Skubal? We have lots of questions and we have Tigers manager, AJ Hinch, to join us next to give us some answers. AJ Hinch, 2017 champion with the Astros. This is his sixth year managing the Tigers. They've made the playoffs the last two years. And of course, they're one of the most interesting teams as we head towards the deadline because they're kind of in it. Maybe they're totally in it. We'll ask AJ about that. And what does it mean for Tarek Skubal and others if they're not? AJ, thank you so much for joining us on the show. Thanks for having me. You know, AJ, I got home from the Yankee game last night and I flipped on your game and I saw the last two innings of it, which felt a little Russian novel, novel-like watching the give and take. Does it feel different at this time of year to play a game, understanding the implications of which way things go, that you're a buyer, a seller of both where, I mean, are you even managing the game like a playoff level game because of that? Yeah, I think that's a great point because we have to pay attention of the urgency of the time of the year. I mean, obviously, we've been getting asked questions about the deadline far before the deadline was even necessarily in front of mind. But I think there's an urgency to us. We have to answer the questions. We know where we are. We dug ourselves a huge hole in May. Now we played incredible baseball for June into July. Now we're in late July and then we know what's ahead. So there's a little more edge to these games in July than normal because of the conversation around our team and the hole that we dug ourselves. So we're embracing it and just understanding it's part of our day by day. Yeah, I like Joel's inside baseball question, but I'll jump to the $64,000 question. I'm trying to be nice to open up here, John. This is that Northwestern thing we were talking about. You go mean quick. All right. Well, we're tough there. We're tough in Evanston, Illinois. Is Scoville staying? I'm shocked that's a topic. I mean, I'm shocked that you would ask that. I mean, I only get asked that in every city that we go to by some of the writers. And I say the same thing, like, I don't know. I think part of the conversation around the deadline is you go to the records and you see where everybody is and you go to, you know, everybody thinks they have access to your best players. And then the reality sets in of like you win a series, then you sweep a series and you win another series and you look up and you feel like you're in it. You know, August 3rd is the deadline. Everybody knows it. It's circled on the calendar. It's just a long time between now and then. We got a lot of baseball to play, but we put ourselves in this situation where we have to talk about it because of the, you know, the record and how poorly May went. But I keep preaching to, like, control what you control to our guys and play the games and we'll see where it leads us. Well, just to put a final point on, like, the rollercoaster. On May 31st, you had the worst record in the American League. You were 22 and 38. Since then, you're 25 and 15. Only Boston 26 and 15 is better. And we've seen what happened to Boston. They totally flipped from, hey, they were getting asked all those questions, but they didn't have Tarek Skubal. And now they're buyers. It's left you six and a half out in the AL Central. It's left you four and a half out of a wild card. AJ, is there, like, numbers where you have to say we're going for it? And are there numbers back where you have to say we're not? Like, are you and Scott Harris saying, hey, if we're here, we've got to go for it. And if we're here, come on, man, we got to be honest with ourselves. So we haven't gone there yet. You know, I think it's important to realize, like, what you just said. Like, Boston rattled off 14 straight wins to get to that record. We rattled off a bunch of wins. We won some series. And then, you know, every loss feels like a big deal. You know, we lost a one-run game in Anaheim the other day. We could have swept and said we won two out of three. I've never really complained about winning two out of three in a series in my career. But all of a sudden, it feels like, oh, you let one get away from you. And so, you know, I think there's, obviously, this is a win total exercise. The playoffs are a win total exercise. You got to get to a bunch of wins in order to factor in. Now, the wild card has changed that a little bit. But, you know, the decisions at the end towards the deadline and what you're doing and what's available, like, I try to keep all that stuff out of the clubhouse and even away from me so that I can focus on what my job is, win as many games as you can, win a bunch of series. We are, you know, a crazy intriguing team because I think we, like I've said a number of times, we're a good team with a bad record. And that often complicates decisions that come around these deadlines. I mean, I still am curious myself of what's going to happen. But when I look up, I'm like, now I'm at Wrigley, I got to play the Cubs. We have a four-game series against the Royals, a three-game series against the Orioles. We go out to Sacramento, we have an off day, and all of a sudden the deadline's going to hit us right in the face. So I know if we win a ton of games, we make that decision later and later. And we probably should as an organization, but also as an industry. How many huge trades do you see that are done, you know, 10 days out of the deadline? And the answer is not many. You're not your average run-of-the-mill manager. You went to Stanford, you were in the front office, you've got quite a great reputation, you've been in the playoffs a lot, you won a World Series. How much input do you have on this trade situation? And are you in there telling, I'm assuming you'd like to keep Schuble as the manager, right? You have a vested interest in that. So are you in there talking about it all the time with him or? Yeah, not really all the time. I mean, again, I think our office, Scott and Jeff do a great job of keeping, you know, the lines drawn of where the jobs are. I mean, we have different jobs. You know, my job would to get the players ready to play and push and get them to execute and motivate and move them around during the game and stuff and try to win games. And the broader view of the organization, the front office handles. But I, you know, I'm aware of everything that's in front of us, but I'm not on the phone. I don't do any of the deals. And so I try to stay in my lane of do my job and offer my opinion as we get closer and closer to the deadline. It just right now, again, like, you know, a week ago, you know, Boston was a mess. They won seven in a row in the last week. Now we are, you know, won a series coming out of the break. We have a chance to win a series in Wrigley tonight. I just think we should pay attention to where our feet are. You know, I know you pulled off a miracle a couple of years ago when you were a seller and actually sold Flaherty and some other pieces and then still made the playoffs. Is there a possibility to trade Scouble because he's an exceptional case and could bring back a lot? And really, I'm assuming you want to keep him, right? Well, I, listen, who doesn't want Scouble on your team or any of your best players? This guy won the Cy Young two years in a row. And so I, you know, we're very motivated to win. We want to win. We want to win with Scouble. I, again, I think where the record stands, it creates a bunch of dialogue around our team. We can run from it or we can just deal with it. And very similar to how it was the last couple of seasons, we've had to deal with two monster conversations around our team. One was we sold a bunch of players and made a bunch of trades. We went young and we found ourselves one of the better teams in baseball the last month and a half and in the playoffs. Last year, we jumped out way ahead. We ended up sort of creeping back towards the field. Cleveland goes off and gets the division. We go beat them in a playoff. Baseball's crazy. So I think we should just do our part to win as many games as we can. And of course, I love writing Tarek Scouble's name in the lineup, man. He's one of the best pitchers in baseball, if not the best pitcher in baseball, and that makes your team better. But you've got to keep earning these opportunities by winning games. You know, AJ, I wonder if I could double down on that question because it was something I was thinking of asking, and I think it is an interesting point. So again, just to draw a fine line, since June 1st, when you've begun this good streak, you lead the major leagues in starting pitcher ERA. And that means more than Scouble. You have other guys pitching very well. Mize, Valdez, Cato Monteiro, like others. Milton. Milton, too. Milton has been terrific. And by the way, Jackson Jobe, I noticed, made his third rehab appearance and got up to 45 pitches. You could tell us what's going on with Justin Verlander. You could get somebody out back for Scouble. Can I make the point that in the best interest of the Tigers would be, yeah, go get as much stuff as possible for Scouble because he's so good, and you're probably not going to be able to retain him long term. But don't wave a white flag. Keep Mize, who's a potential free agent. Keep Claiborne Torres, who's a potential free agent. And just have a cake and eat it, too. Is that a sound strategy at this point? And I'm asking you to put your executive hat on to some degree. Well, I think everybody has great ideas, and I think it creates a huge conversation around what the deadline is. I've been part of deadlines where there's been massive sell-offs. I've been the buy-sell. I've been the just-sell. I've been the stand-pat. All those happen across the entire game. So I'm not skirting the question. I have no idea what we're going to do or what's possible, but I think the conversation around your team is you want to keep your strengths a strength, and you want to address the weaknesses that you do have. Now, with a lot of teams, weaknesses might be just get your guys healthy. And we love getting Claiborne back. Javi Baez is going to start a rehab assignment tonight. We've got to get Parker Meadows on the mend and doing his thing. We miss Will Vest in the back end. Last night, I was going to go through every reliever I could to beat the Cubs. We had every reliever available. I pitched everyone that was available. So the best interest of your team is always to keep your strength a strength and try to address your weaknesses, but you've got to earn that through the opportunities ahead. All this conversation, again, this used to start just in July, where we would talk about it in July, and I understand we're in July now. We've been dealing with this since May and June. People ask me about the deadline, the first question in the month of May about the deadline, and that's because we were losing games. So how do you combat all this and guide your own destiny, so to speak? You've got to win games, and we've been doing that now for a couple months. We've got to do it more. And by the way, when the deadline comes, no matter what happens, as a manager, the season still goes on. I still look at it. I've got the Pirates twice. I've got the Dodgers coming to Comerica. We've got to play the White Sox and the Guardians who are in front of us. So the deadline's just a day, and then things are going to happen around the league. There's going to be an emotional reaction to it, and then we've got to go play more games, and you've got to keep winning in order to get to the playoffs. Yeah, look, I remember in 2019, AJ asking Davey Martinez, so you've got to trade Max Scherzer, right, when they were, whatever, 1931 in May, and then I saw Davey Martinez pouring champagne on Max Scherzer in 2019 at the end of the year. So I know how that could work, but if I could just... You know how you talked about Heyman being the one that's mean, asking questions? That 2019 loss still hurts. Oh, I'm sorry. You know something? I forgot as I was asking that question. Well, I think you shouldn't say I'm mean. I think you should say I'm stupid because I forgot you as I was pointing that out. I wasn't going to bring it up. But to get back to mean, I wonder if I could just drill down again on essentially that same question. If Tarek Skubal, you know, obviously I am not wishing for the whole thing, but if he came in today and said, oh, you know, I pulled my hamstring, and he couldn't pitch the rest of, whatever injury, you wouldn't give up, right? Like, I think you could look at your team, rightfully, even your rotation, which obviously would be hurting. You're not only losing an ace, you might be losing the ace of the sport. But I guess what I'm saying is if I took him off your team, you'd still think you could win, wouldn't you? Yeah, of course. We're still trying to win no matter what. Injuries, no injuries. Trade, no trade. Availability, no availability. That never stops. That's a great point of we are going to play the games. Again, I try not to get too cliche, but we're going to play the games and see how many wins we have at the end. And there's a chance, regardless of anything, we have a chance to win. We have a chance to win tonight. And we're not pitching Tarek Skubal, or I'm not pitching Jack Flaherty, I'm not pitching Casey Mize. We're pitching Fran Bervaldez, and we feel good about our chance to win. And so I think our mindset downstairs in the clubhouse is keep plugging away, keep taking a step forward, keep going. And that doesn't change, and it shouldn't change regardless. And we have an experienced team that's made moves both ways, both incoming and trading out where we won at the end of the season in advance of the playoffs. So our mindset is going to remain the same for sure. Yeah, how confident are you that you can win this division? I mean, you were the favorite going in. You've managed a lot of teams I think that have overachieved. Now, obviously, you had a ton of injuries in May. I think that really caused the 6-20, but you are trending upward. But the White Sox have been a little bit of a surprise. The Guardians are always tough. What do you think? Do you feel pretty confident in this division, six and a half out? Yeah, they play their games too. I think it's always important to play the teams in front of you and take care of business when you do. And we hadn't done that up to date. We had a pretty good series against the White Sox. We've had a couple good series against the White Sox. We've struggled with Cleveland dating back to last year. And so we are going to have those teams in front of us that we're going to get to play. We haven't played a ton of division games, and we're all the way into late July. So our confidence is that we believe in our team. I love getting Glaber back last night and being able to slide Dingler into the 5-hole. We slide Torkelson down in the order, and all of a sudden, those 18-19 homers in the 7-hole feel like a strength as opposed to the bottom of the order not swinging the bat as well. Those things, I think, are important as we get healthy. We've played better defense. That leads to more confidence. We've obviously pitched really well. Like Joel said, our rotation has been awesome. Even though the last couple of starts, I've had to go out and get starters early. Again, win totals are win totals, and we're going to need to increase those to catch those teams. The good thing is we're going to play these guys in this back 50-60 games. How much does that matter? Is that part of the discussion that the teams in your division are littered on your schedule the rest of the way, where it is in your hands to some degree? Is that part of a discussion on whether to trade a little, whether to trade a lot? By the way, we haven't asked this question. Whether to buy and try to go for it? Yeah, we're going for it either way. I think transactions don't mean whether you're going for it or not. I think it's the public version of changing your roster, but you're going to still try to win. Again, I think tonight's game can springboard you forward, or you're going to take a step back. That's the reality. Tomorrow's the same way. What I heard coming out of the questions in the media was, hey, you've got to get off to a good start. Okay, we've won three of the first four, and it doesn't matter unless we continue that trend to improve our trajectory. Right now, the accomplishment feels like winning series and getting ahead of the pace that we were on when we were headed south. We've done that so far. We've got to keep doing it for us to factor in and be relevant like that down the stretch, playing the teams in front of us. We saw a couple of Tiger All-Stars, at least I did, in Philly. We've talked a lot on the show about McGonigal. Obviously, he's gotten a lot of publicity as one of the favorites for the American League Rookie of the Year. How about this catcher? You were a major league catcher. This guy, Dingler, where did he come from? He looks really good. Yeah, draft and development. He came pretty high pick out of Ohio State and worked his way methodically through the minor leagues. Everybody says catchers take step-by-step process. He did that every level. He conquered it, and then he would come, and then he was the backup on that 2014 that made the playoffs with Jake Rodgers doing the majority of the catching, and then it flipped. Jake got hurt. Dylan came in. He took advantage of his opportunities, and he's taken off and been arguably one of the top catchers in baseball, performance-wise for sure, but also stability-wise. Everything he does behind the plate is plus. Everything he does at the plate is productive. I've moved him up from the bottom of the order. Now, he's primarily hitting second, third, fourth, or fifth. Then last night, he had a couple homers. He exceeded the 20-homer total. Just an incredible person to be stable behind the plate. I'm very catcher-biased, but I get asked about him as much as I do McGonigal or Tarek or Casey. Our players, like Riley Green, other managers ask me a ton, and they're always intrigued by what Dylan's doing behind the plate. You'll never see a good team without a good catcher. You need a good catcher to be the best version of your team. He impacts the game on both sides. I think in this age, where it's hard to find terrific two-way catchers, if you have one, the advantage over the other team I think is the greatest advantage you can have, and I think you've got the best, actually, in the sport, especially dollar for dollar. It's scuba adjacent. Could you give us an update on, do you expect Jackson Joe back this year in your rotation? Where is that? Do you expect Verlander back, just in the idea of, if you have to fill in, but you are going to try to keep going and winning, could these guys help you along the way? For sure. Jackson is trending pretty quickly. He's well into his rehab assignment. He's going to pitch again this weekend and have good starts along the way. You guys in New York saw this with Garrett Cole and going through a very long spring training-esque type build coming out of Tommy John. Jackson's doing that. He's going in the upper 90s. He's hit 100 in every outing. That's both encouraging and scary, meaning he is locked in, throwing the ball as hard as he can. I think he threw three innings in his last rehab start. Again, you're going to end up challenging him to four, challenging him to five, and build his pitch count up. We do expect him to contribute and pitch for us. I don't know when it is because we're paying attention to rest. We're paying attention to his recovery. This is a Tommy John rehab. It's not coming back from a sore quad or a sore back or anything like that. We'll be excited to get him back in the mix. Then Verlander is the same way. He's just behind because he's not doing rehab outings yet. He hasn't pitched in a game in a while. We're going to need to build him. I love what the commissioner did to acknowledge his career and pay tribute to what he's given the sport and his excellence. He announced this is going to be his last year. We're all really motivated for him to contribute to a winner. We want this guy to finish in our uniform and have that moment where he's able to go out there, but also be good. He's working towards that. He's really motivated to pitch. He's had a heck of a time getting himself back to 100% after the hamstring injury in the beginning of April. I've got a close relationship with Justin. I'm rooting for him. I'm also rooting for us. I do want to acknowledge the greatness that we had around us. He's impacted this team in a positive way, even though the innings have been light. He's obviously a first ballot Hall of Famer when that comes up five years after his retirement. I thought the Tigers, the Yankees, and the Mariners coming into this year with a class of the American League and Boston was that next thing. I'm sure you felt some way about it. A hundred games into the season, as you're thinking about things, does it matter what you think of your team anymore? Or the reality is you're six games under 500, and that's the only thing that matters? I don't think that's the only thing that matters. I just think that's the reality of the situation that you're in. When you start the year, you start with a little bit of an illusion that you're going to have this team for the remainder of the season. It never works out that way because guys get hurt. You have good performance, bad performance. Then we get to the deadline, and all I hear about is changing your team. Even when we predict things at the beginning of the season, we have no idea how July is going to go. When you go through the season and the grind, there are these peaks and valleys, and there are teams that get injury riddled and struggle to maintain themselves. Then there's also teams that jump out and fade, and there's teams that get off to a slow start all of Boston. All of a sudden, they're on a massive sprint towards wins. I think it matters that you can accurately evaluate your team, that you know what your strength is and how to maintain that. You know what your weaknesses are, and you try to address that initially in the year with young players or six-year free agents or your minor league depth. Then you get to this part of the season where you have to declare a little bit of where you're at. That's the beauty of this sport. You go through multiple seasons within the first 100 games. You've got to have belief in your team if you're going to maintain that mental consistency to bring it every day. Those 100-plus win teams that I've had in my past, we've had six, seven, and eight-game losing streaks. That happens in this sport to the best of teams. I've been around the game long enough to know every team's going to have to deal with this stuff. You've got to stay focused on what you can control, when you can control it, and ride this roller coaster of 162 games. It doesn't mean you have to know at 100 what your full season is going to look like. Stay positive and keep reaching for wins because they matter at the end. AJ, I hope I'm speaking for John also. We get our guests every week. This is a time of year where most people who are involved in significant news stories run away from us and don't want to do this. They run away from us anyway. Yes. They run a little faster in late July, I've noticed. AJ, you've been on the show multiple times, so we're always thankful for that. You're doing it at this time where obviously you have the player, maybe him and Mason Miller, that most people are talking about right now. They're actually going to get out to the market. John and I truly appreciate you joining us on the show. Enjoy it. See you guys. Thanks, AJ. John and I, of course, thank AJ Hinch, the manager of the Troy Tigers, for joining us on the show. John, hit or error? I got another error. I'm on a run of errors. I got to go with Jose Caballero with his stall tactic in the box. Okay, he's annoying the pitcher. That's one thing. He's also potentially getting a pitch clock violation. He's done that two or three times. He earned himself three balls or four balls or something like that. He's annoying everybody else with this too, though. It is not worth it. What if everybody did this? Everybody tried to outsmart the rule. Okay, give him congratulations, found a loophole in the rule where he can maybe get a minor advantage, two or three at-bats out of the 500 he's going to get this year. It is not worth it. It nearly led to a fight yesterday. I don't blame Santana. I don't want to go out there and fight Caballero, not only because I wouldn't beat him. It's not worth it, but he's got to cut it out. MLB's got to tell him to stop it. That was not the intention of the rule. Can I love and hate something at the same time there? I really hate watching it. It is annoying. As somebody who believes everyone is way too friendly on the field, and especially before games now, the fact that he pisses everybody off, I kind of like it. I think it's a competition. What if everybody was doing that? Well, it would be terrible, John. I said I hate it. The game would be ruined. We have a three and a half hour game. I think I said I hate watching it. I think part of who he is is he wants to annoy the crap out of everybody, and that includes me and you watching the game. He's doing it. He's succeeding at a very high level, but I think he's bothering the other team. Is it working? Because he isn't hitting, really. It isn't like he does this and he gets a big advantage at the plate. John, I think I want to give a hit for this, but I'm not exactly sure that's the right thing. The best thing that happened to the Mets is they didn't sign Kyle Tucker. I just watched him over the weekend again. If you remember when we were doing shows, one of the things I said all the time about Kyle Tucker is, you and I, go back to 2015, especially 2017 because of the sign stealing. The Astros became the Red Sox to the Yankees. The Yankees hated them. Their fans hated them. The games were big. I know I covered tons of games in Houston regular season, Yankee Stadium regular season, all the postseason games. Those were big games. I would leave the ballpark and go, God damn it, Jose Altuve is a timely player. God damn it, Alex Bregman could field the ball in the eighth inning or whatever and take a good at bat. Jeremy Payne, you're Don Alvarez. You could have convinced me Kyle Tucker didn't even ... You'd have to remind me Kyle Tucker played in the series. I'd go, really? He was there? He was in the series? When people were saying what they thought of him and how much money he was going to get, I'm like, I don't know. I saw him on a great team and I didn't even know he was on the field. I covered a lot of big games between those teams and a lot of big Astro games where I just forgot it. He just played a weekend series against the Yankees. You would have to remind me again that he played in the series. He went two for nine with two singles, struck out twice, and it felt like every time I watch Kyle Tucker, he had a card in his hand, was putting it into the time thing to prove he showed up for work, and then that's it. I guess the good news for the Mets is they could have signed that contract and been into it. I would rather have Bechet for the three- Oh, absolutely. Than Tucker for the four. After watching it, it's just like, I just think he's an incredibly talented. Yeah, he might be. I don't know. Is he the 12th best player on the Dodgers? I don't know, but I mean, obviously he's not having a good year. It is something that you and I do not see that the two highest priced GM determined that he was the guy to go for last winter, that they had to have him to the point where they're going to make him the first $60 million player. You got two teams to offer him $60 million. I'm with you, Altuve, Bregman, Alvarez, Pena. There were a number of players who were the marquee guys on that Astros team. Now, was Tucker a very good player? He's better than this? Yes. He was a very, very good player offensively and defensively. Right now, he's an average player both ways. Yeah, I don't get it. I mean, every team makes mistakes. We'll see. There's still a little bit of time to go. Maybe he'll turn it around, but I'll never understand why two teams thought that he should be the highest paid player in the game. John, I'll even go to this, and this is one that I was like, I had lots of analytical people, not even nice, tell me I was wrong and an idiot. I said, I just watched Cody Bellinger play a whole season, and I leave the park every game that Cody Bellinger plays pretty much and goes, wow, he impacted the game on defense. He impacted the game on the bases. He impacted the game left on left. He's just a good five-tool player. He has struggled without judge because I think what Cody Bellinger is is as high a level co-star as you can. Whoever the third billing is in a great movie, that's what he feels like, but stealing scenes where you watch him and you're like, man, he is a good baseball player, high baseball IQ, plays with some oomph in his step. When people say, well, the Yankees, Hal Steinberg is cheap. They should go get Tucker. I'm like, I guess they could spend more money and get Tucker, or they could spend less and get the better player. To me, in Bellinger, the guy who's played in major markets and not been afraid of it. I didn't get Tucker for either team. I didn't get him for the Yankees. I didn't get him for the Mets. Yankees and the Mets have two right-fielders in the game by encountering the offense with Soto and Judge. As it turns out, the Mets have a full outfield with Ewing and Benj. We wouldn't have even seen Ewing if they signed Tucker. To use a cliche, sorry, they dodged a bullet there. Obviously, I think you are absolutely right. You've been saying this all along. He is not a passionate player. Can you be a very good player for 20 years when you're not passionate? I think it becomes a little more difficult at some point. Bellinger is that passionate player. He was a superstar. He had that terrible injury. He had to recreate himself. He's done everything he can to become a very, very good player. He probably is overpaid as well, but he is a very good player, and he does impact the game. There is a strong value to him. I'm lost on Kyle Tucker. I think Cody Bellinger is overpaid in a small market. In this market, when he proved he could play in Los Angeles, Chicago, and New York, and he is so additive, again, I think he has struggled without judge. I talked to him yesterday, and I asked. I said, are you feeling like I have to do more? His numbers have cratered without judge. He insisted to me he didn't, but I feel good about it in some ways if I'm the Yankees. He feels responsibility. He cares. He really cares. He's really interested. He cares. You feel his passion about it. The person who we know is a star and worth every penny, Tommy Holt, our producer. He doesn't get Bellinger money. He doesn't. We're working on it, Tommy. We don't either. On Bellinger money for a week. Apple, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts, please rate and review us. It does help the show. The New York Post sports YouTube page, give us a view. Look, the trade deadline is two plus weeks away. Nobody, no redness, nobody works harder at it and does more interesting work around the trade deadline than John Heyman. Please, nypost.com, give me a view, and we'll talk about it all here on the show if you stick with us.