River Fishing Etiquette

Hey, what's going on guys welcome to another addicted fishing podcast We are sitting here tonight and we are going to be talking about a little bit of a sore subject around the northwest and You know, it's not necessarily a sore subject unless you know what you're doing But we got a lot of new anglers and we got a lot of smaller areas to fish just on the account that well Things aren't as open as they were before. So I brought in two of my best buds here We got casey kelly and ryan mcconn in the house both Guides on the columbia river and a lot of the tributaries around southwest washington and oregon Actually, ryan's probably a little bit up north, too But my point is these guys do 250 plus days in the river. So I thought I couldn't think of anybody else better to see all these interactions and Talk about exactly some rules of the road and some etiquette That needs to be kind of occurring out here in the northwest. What would you think the uh, Kind of current state of affairs are right now ryan Like what are you looking into coming into the winter season and where are you going to spend most of your time? You're gonna be on the bank. You're gonna be on the boat sled Mostly out of the sled for me. They shut down a lot of the rivers, you know that um I fish completely shut them down where you can't even float them or anything um But I know going into this season just knowing what goes on that I plan on Mentally going into this season knowing that fisheries are going to be overcrowded And just kind of preparing myself to deal with some bad attitudes and people that don't have a clue out there and you know, maybe that's a maybe that's a huge takeaway just to start this off is uh, Having probably so you're saying you're going to need to express a little bit more Patience, I think you need to start mentally prepping about two months in advance so you don't Want to drown somebody else on the water. Well, no one wants nobody wants to do that. Well It's been half it's happened before in the state Well, that's not what we're going to encourage on this podcast But what you're saying is that you are you are going to not have the expectation of showing up to any of these steelhead rivers By yourself running only your program having all the fish in the world to yourself in the bank or the sled And not see us all right, no not at all even to have multiple options you should know that there's Generally our rivers or rivers usually have five good holes that everybody really wants to get into And knowing that that you might not get into it that day it might be you might not get a fish even that hole till the next day, but uh Yeah, it's just everyone's gonna have to show a little bit more, uh respect patience and courtesy towards one another I think is probably the main thing So I know we like to bring this up a lot in for winter steelhead season because everyone's getting on the banks and stuff like that but you guys we fish year-round so You know, let's talk a little bit about the guys, you know when we're participating in these crowd of fishery like casey What do you think is like probably? one of the Probably one of the most things that you got to realize like when someone shows up to a new fishery Or they're new to this and like you're trying to explain like how do you feel your way? Into a fishery boat bank, whatever it is. Like what's what's probably some of the key takeaways? I always go into the situation like Uh think about what i'd want people to do to me or what i'd do to people uh as far as being polite and uh, just um being courteous to people before You make big decisions and just keeping your eyes open and uh paying attention to situations situations will vary river to river, um If you got a hatchery hole and there's a thousand people lined up you know, you're not going to want to run through it and just Blow everybody up. You're gonna make a lot of enemies real quick. Uh, so just Always just stay away from those high traffic areas and and you won't have any problems. Um If you go if you go into a different situation where you have a lot of boats And you don't really know what's going on. It always pays to just sit back and watch for a while you can really learn a lot by uh just Observing for a half an hour and just seeing what the the cadence of the the drift is before you go Diving into it. Yeah, I mean And I there's a couple fisheries that we participate in one that we can think especially that You know, you get a bunch of boats working around there and they're all kind of doing the same thing They're all trolling up one way moving boat or trolling down one way pulling their gear at a certain spot dumping their gear in in a certain area And it does seem like the guys that just see the fish getting caught or see something coming in they just jump right into the mix and People see red a lot and they like it just too excited and start making you know, stupid decisions and oh god There's a fish. Let's get down there and get after it and then uh pretty soon they're you know, having a guy jump their butt because they uh low hold them or Cut in line a little too close or Drop your anchor right in the middle of a thousand boats trolling. Yeah, so you can anchor fish But they have the right to fish they have the right to anchor there Don't they you can do whatever you want, but at the end of the day you're making Maybe your friends happy in your boat, but you just upset the thousand other people trying to fish that stretch of river social media these days you know it uh It can go bad for you real quick I always feel like if you do something that works for you, but it messes up everybody else around you It's probably not the right thing to do Um, there's another you know that saying there's more than one way to skin a cat Do do something that possibly will work for the crowd and the people around you Not saying your dad or your grandpa might have showed you this method and it works But if you're really upsetting a crowd of people, is it worth it at the end of the day? Now switch your program a little bit and and you might not catch as many But at the end of the day, you might have friendships or or you'll be more successful More. Yeah, and as I say like just like what case said when you you get to the areas instead of just diving right in And then running your program Sitting back watching observing like okay, and we don't talk a lot of river names here but i'm just gonna bring up one because it's to prove to put our point across I guess you'd say like Let's talk about like the toilet bowl at drano like you're not going to be the guy That goes in there with 40 boats trolling that tight air who's going to drop his anchor in there, right? No one's gonna do that But the reason why no one does that is because most people that would probably participate in that fishery Would launch off their boat check it out and be like, you know what? No one's dropping their anchor here. Like this is probably something that and if they did they said they'd been doing it for 30 years That is true Which generally usually don't you notice how like don't you notice how like the people that say that that kind of stuff? We're like, you know, i've been doing this since my mom's years like i've been fishing over the last 10 years I've never seen you. Yeah, and it's like they're always the guy that's in the wrong. But You know, so when in rome, you know do as the romans and like casey said just looking back observing kind of seeing what's going on Also, too if you're like, you know, and this just doesn't go, you know for the boat stuff but this really goes for a lot like some of these crowded steel steelhead areas like hatcheries and whatnot too and um, you know, we're seeing a lot of that now rains are heavy fish are moving up to the hatchery probably a little quicker than Some of us would like to see but let's be honest That's where a lot of those fish are going to be there too So let's talk a little bit about like, you know Some of the on the bank stuff because i'm a steelheader and I think that every hole that I walk down I should have a hundred yards down below me where no one's going to fish. Thank you very much How's that going to work out for me? You know a lot if you go to canada, you can probably get some Areas like that where you can get away from crowds, but I don't know about in the lower 48 Yeah, most of us got our starts, you know in hatchery settings where fishing is a little easier than than most places. So You get this mindset to kind of get in where you fit in and if there's a hole in the line jump in there and start casting don't be the guy that casts, uh, uh over other people's stuff and you learn that quick, but um when you step out of step off into a setting where you're walking a mile in and there's uh, there's a guy, you know fish in the top of a riffle and and you you come in there and I've had so many times where I just walk in there and i'll i'll walk up to the guy and i'll just start chatting with them and We'll start talking fishing and a lot of times I never even make a cast I just you know, and then by the time he's done i'll say do you mind if I take a cast? no problem and Sometimes it pays sometimes it doesn't but you just gotta talk to people one thing. I gotta say on on Talking to people when you come into a hole also, especially for beginning anglers and people that haven't experienced the attitude possibly a bank fisherman and one thing is Don't believe everything that you walk into a hole. You might want to fish it. The guys are just rude mean to you And in reality, they're just trying to push you out of there because they don't want you fishing not anywhere at all So a lot of times don't read Everything they're saying but use your best judgment Communicate what casey said communication is key, but you know where if there is that opportunity It's always best to communicate and and this go that goes for a lot of interactions I mean boat to boat boat to bank bank boat bank bank, whatever it is but what ryan is saying too where Don't necessarily think that if this guy's walked a mile into some sacred little steelhead honeypot that he's necessarily thrilled to see your ass walking Yeah, I mean i'm guilty for it too I could have I could I could have landed 17 steelhead in this hole and you come walking up to me i'm gonna be like Yeah, it's kind of tight in here and the fishing's no good Right, right in reality. It's a small stream mentality So I walk in And I walk in and I talk to a guy at the top of the run And let's say the run is 200 yards on let's say it's a big Area big big cut of land and I walk up and let's say I get that negative interaction Hey, I was going and you just kind of oh it's going And like oh you mind if I maybe step in below you and like well, I was gonna fish that like then What do you do? I go above it and work the water behind him because then you're not stepping on his toes and if honestly if That guy's a good fisherman, you know cameron if steelhead's in there He's gonna bite obviously if he went through and he didn't get it to go i'm gonna give it my shot Now if you drop him below the guy instantly, you're gonna have a negative interaction with that person again He doesn't own 200 yards of water. Does he i'd say give him a good, you know At least at least say hey, man, can I drop in 50 60 yards below you? And if he gets all worked up about that, i'll just go find some new water. Yeah, it's not worth it to you It's not worth it. Yeah, and generally like for me too. It's not like It's never worth it just because you're out there to have a good time like you're out there to to enjoy nature You're out there to and the other thing catch a fish I mean, I like catching a fish too and like you but what rising is like, you know Being able to go in behind people work the water behind or find somewhere else Sometimes it you're in a no-win situation and there's no there's no recipe that you can be right on because I had an incident I'll talk about on our coastal river winter steelheading Where jet boats and drift boats are kind of intermingling and floating through drifts. So i'm like cool i'm gonna stay above a guy well This guy in this drift boat watches hook three Within eyesight of him above him and on our third fish He starts screaming at me In front of my customers and I said, hey, dude, I never dropped below you one time You're high holding them. I would and I said i'm sorry. I high hold you all day but we we never did anything and the guy just had a bad attitude and kind of lit me up in front of my Customers and I just kind of said well we did everything we could to stay so I mean What why was what was he? I mean Was he like another guy that you and it wasn't a river like I could see If it was a river that he could float it twice in a day, but this particular system. It's a one float System. Yeah, so maybe he thinks i'm stealing fish that he might have got on his second float on rivers Could he have like used his electric and gone out or anything like that? No, like and most of this stuff I was on my gas powered kicker Fighting these fish. I mean super strong current. There's no way he was just another one of those guys you're just not gonna win with well, it's just it's Especially if a guy is struggling there's fish around being caught you just gotta what i'm saying There's no exact recipe to making people happy around you always just do the best you can Do stuff like casey said treat others like you want to be treated I wouldn't like it if I was working a 200 yard stretch and a guy worked the last 60 before I got to the tail Out right now if he goes to the head of it and starts ahead of the hole and works whole thing Like I did cool and truth be told I can't ever think of a time where I was in my raft where a guy like It was in a raft off the bank sled above me and like I turned around and he caught a fish Like well damn I just went through there, but I never would think of a moment where i'd actually get mad at him or yell. Oh good Hey, nice work. I mean like well, I learned something new today I see a lot of bank guys they love it when I pull up my sled on small rivers because It gets the fish moving. Oh, no, it spooks them all and generally I noticed the the people that haven't done a lot of plunking or bank fishing for winter steelhead They get all upset and they're throwing their hands and the guys that have been doing it for 40 years They're they're giving me the thumbs up and rooting me to because every time I go by it blows the fish and they get bit You know, I was gonna say so my next question to you guys. We're gonna be like, okay So we're talking a little bit about the boats and the small river interaction But like I was gonna say, how do you interact with the bank guys? And so you are under the firm belief that fish move around the boats Right fish fish can definitely do that. But and sometimes That movement is a good thing and sometimes it's a bad thing, but you think it's more good than bad, obviously Yeah for me If a guy's been so I start out my morning I see a guy's fishing a hole say two three guys Three hours later if I come by and those guys are still fishing that hole cameron That steelhead would have bit right? Now i'm gonna go there might be a pot of them. They're all bunched up because they It's just similar to an elk or they bunch up when they get spooked, right? Well, they won't bite when they get in a ball you get them broken off. They'll start snapping left and right and that's What happens when the motor goes through the holes it breaks up that that ball that's just Getting out of the way of the jig or the bead that the guys from the bank are continually just to throw down the same Seam 500 cast, right? right, there's no question in my mind, especially if the fish aren't like moving like, you know, if you're You know river stale low water, whatever like those fish the fish that are going to be targeted by those bank guys is drifts You know float drift fishing whatever it is, but where that presentation is going to hit them right and if You're right if they're there two three hours later They're probably going to get the ones they're going to get and maybe they need something to shake them up Because there's no question we've seen it with coho too Yeah, you know coho ball up somewhere you catch one you break them up You spook them you move them out into the run you do this. Well next thing, you know a few minutes later You're picking those fish off too. Yep. Yeah when they come back, you know 30 minutes later in the same same pocket Yeah well, I mean because a lot of people don't like it when they see the boats, let's be honest like I mean There's a lot of rivers that I drift and oh, there's two things that are the devil on small rivers guides and jet boats. Oh the devil We've all had crazy crazy interactions with people on certain rivers and I mean There's just sometimes there's just nothing you can do it. There's there's a certain mindset on Smaller rivers. It's different than than larger rivers. Uh, I call it the north county mindset. Um, i've had guys, uh Not even fishing a spot and i'm back trolling. Uh some bait and a guy drives down his driveway to a plunking shack and sees me and Full-on gets out of his car in a rage and tells me he's gonna throw that at me if I don't move my boat And I was there already 30 minutes before that and so it was even fishing he wasn't fishing yet But he wanted to be fishing. It was it was his sacred plunking spot, you know, and uh, I was in it So I was like, hey man, just give me five more minutes. I'll be out of here No, you if you don't want lead slung at you you're gonna move So I had you know, I had a group of guys on the boat and I said, all right guys, let's split and We did but you took you took the bigger man better option for sure there But I didn't know what he was talking about when he said let some lead sling. So I just assumed I didn't know if he was gonna cast it at me or shoot it at me. So We just failed and the speed's a different variable We all have stories like that where we come across the right the mindset of the guys just there's nothing you can do just bail But one thing that he just said when he was talking about that um there's not A lot some of these new anglers don't know How the river works. It's a first come first serve. Yeah, and a lot of people don't understand that even if that guy had Fished there his dad's dad and his whole family have caught a thousand springers out of that hole The fact that casey was there first that day means it's his until he's done fishing and I think that's something that Everybody has sportsmen and fishermen Really needs to understand if you want it. There's no question get there first Yeah, yeah You own that water as long as you're fishing it and if you have to get up at two three in the morning to get That spot and it's not worth it. Well time to find a new spot to fish. That's how it should be. But like I said, uh certain mentalities exist in Certain river systems and uh, you just do what you can to try not to Get killed or kill somebody Well, there's no question. I mean and i've had a couple instances on a very popular where she's gone now Thank god that there was this one hole that I would always drop my anchor on And she'd come out her back porch and yell at me I can have your anchor on this half of the river like she knew and then we had an incident too, right? Let's not get into that No, no, no, no, we're not talking no we're not talking the place affectionately named the wildebeest hole But is it still called that after I named it that day called it that anyways, uh Side story, but sometimes property owners do on the property they do on the riverbank Down underneath the water where you're correct. There's no high water mark on a lot of smaller rivers yeah, so like there is there is a little bit of I will give like A property owner like that benefit of the doubt. Yeah But it's also like I said, it's also a little bit of an attitude thing so if you're I mean I could imagine like property owners in certain situations have seen have dealt with nothing, but Yeah that particular day when me and you were fishing we did everything nice and the lady just had a super sour attitude when all You were trying to do was just retie one leader really quick literally the anchor touched the bottom and she was honest story was Same kind of situation like casey Brian and I are floating down a beautiful winter steelhead day incredible like catching fish having a good time sunny nice, she was out taking a walk on her property and We saw him and we just said I I saw him coming. I'm like, hey tone it down We don't want to be all pooped and you know this, you know, I mean like you try to be discreet you know you don't want to be all like partying down there because I think 90 of the problems we have on the rivers with property owners because the swimmers all summer long but that's for another That's for another podcast And yeah, we had our anchor town and we said I turned to her said good morning And as nice as I could like, hey, man, happy to be here and everyone's enjoying the day she Looks at us and puts her head down and then I think you then like looked at me and then you like No, I didn't get a fly and then ryan goes good morning or something like that to her All she was I said something like top of the morning to you And it's really loud. So she definitely heard at that time and then all she does she snarled dude You you know your anchor can't be on the river bottom and I went oh i'm sorry And actually her words were your anchor's not touching bottom, you know better. Oh, yeah, you know better and I went oh Sorry, and I I reach over and it was like a stagnant Flat yeah spot so I reach over with my rope my hand. I pull it up to six inches and I went got it You have a good day And they went about their way and we continue to catch fish there I guess telling people good morning these days is not uh, not good anymore. So so I hear on yeah, well, it's really weird You're not supposed to say good morning She was walking her dog with her husband and her husband just cowered when she was saying that stuff He didn't even look up at us. He wouldn't even look And now we know why the name of the hole is called the name of the hole Anyways, so yeah, sometimes those interactions with property owners can be you know A little bit a little bit tough, but what about like bank anglers though? I mean like I mean I I know that when i'm in my raft and we've got a lot of water to fish and I and I understand not having I understand some of these rivers. They don't have a lot of access and I understand like, you know If i'm in my raft, i've got a lot of water to fish so sometimes like i'll come by a bank angler if I have the opportunity to I generally try to row over the water They're not fishing at and if that means I have to row a foot away from the bank that they're standing on and just say hey and I'll literally let them know i'm like Hey, i'm just trying not to blow your water I'm just going to kind of slide by You know because like you said some people get really mad when you row over the fish and the guys have done it forever They don't really care because they know they're going to boom around it. Exactly. No, maybe somebody doesn't matter what you do, right? Yeah, right No that that or that and that to the opposite and how many times have you tried to go around a bank? Hung your own boat up trying to do everything right to tippy-toe around them and you hung up and you look all dumb And then they're still upset at you when you tried everything in your power, huh? I tried to stay off this guy's seam line We were flowing down from marlin's birthday trip and this guy was fishing this inside seam and I knew when I was coming down i'm like, okay i'm gonna put my boat on the right side of the river going down because I knew he was fishing the slack water on his coho twitching And so I go down the right side and I like wedge it on this damn stick and it like sticks the boat We like spin sideways break the stick just total cluster and I I look back up at the river the guy's smiling and shaking his head and I go I go. Sorry, dude I go I meant to stay off your water and then he I guess he watched the video like a couple days later when we put it out and he's like, oh he's like Thanks for staying off my water. Yeah hanging yourself on that stick just a total dope move on my end But uh tried made an effort put said I was gonna do it made an effort to try to stay off the water Oh, yeah made me look like an a-hole, but it just uh, you know trying, you know putting out that little bit of extra effort Uh, definitely did he did he yes Did he did he give you a thumbs up as you're going by finally when you uh went by or was he like hung up? Just below him, but when I looked back up he was shaking his head smiling like you dumbasses Which it literally was but that effort, you know to go when you know coming into those bank and boat interactions like Except that effort of trying to just do what you can like sometimes you can't I mean There's definitely holes and runs where you're rowing through or you're running a sled through um situations like that where uh, you know you you can't And honestly for me i'm not trying to go out there and mess up anybody ever right because that's I don't want it to happen to me, but You know, you can only do what you can sometimes you got to go over the water, right? So Yeah at the end of the day safety is going to be number one for a boat operator over People in his vessel guide non-guide Over making sure you don't drive over a little stretch of river for a bank and go so i'm going to say that I mean Personal safety and boat safety is going to be number one number one. Yeah, um And then after that just try to tippy-toe around everybody out there on these small little rivers, right? Right in the winter time. Everybody's uh Seems like everybody's on edge in the winter time too. I don't know what it is. Oh, I agree with that whole You see you see more Drama on facebook or you know, uh fishing forums during the winter months than any other time because people are bored and They're looking for a reason to to fight So a lot of times they'll get on the river and they just their patience is that much thinner Well, and you know, like I said, there's also a lot of crowding that too There's you know, not a lot of places to fish I think there's a lot of passion into winter steelhead fisherman too My winter steelhead crowd is completely different than the rest of my crowd The rest of the year and they're the hardcore hardcores so you put people that are that passionate You're gonna have more attitudes and flare-ups You're not having you're not having the family business guy out there when it's 35 and raining sleeting on you For six hours. Well, you're the king of kokanee, you know that clientele base It's the opposite of that the guys that I have shown Exactly. It's the opposite of that the guys that are fishing with me in may I will never see in my raft ever That's such a good point Um, I do, you know, we talked about um, you know the boat to boat like I've got another story where you know, sometimes people also don't you know when you talk about safety and understanding what's going on and I remember there was a video one time that we shot where we were running a sled down river and there was another sled down in the hole um and uh And as I was approaching the hole I I slowed down because I wanted to make sure that the guy because it's really tight in that spot I wanted to make sure that the guy that was sitting down in the hole knew that I like I was intending to come Down, but I was kind of getting off plane until I saw him Come up and he waved at me and he waved me to come down and I knew and and this guy he'd been fishing there Forever still does excellent fisherman and he knew like, okay, i'm gonna try to get down I'm just gonna get down and rip by him, but he's ready for it And let's just do this just to get me out of his hair so he can go back to doing his fishing well We shot it. We shot it in a segment of a film and this was before this was like way before addicted and uh, we go and somebody like found the video like Years later and they like put it up on ifish and it was like this like giant stink and the guy's like What if there was banking like just made something out of like complete nothing? He's like, I can't believe a guide would do that to another guy He didn't know the context of like the the shot like and then he's like see there was even a bobber over there on the bank Well, it probably was a barber that was broken off. There was nobody on the bank, you know but like all of a sudden it got like so spun up into this like just complete amount of just bs I was like What is going on? I mean he waved me down and I went by and like but and then it turned into you had the worst etiquette Oh, I was just oh, I can't I can't believe anybody Worst kick anybody would go fishing with cameron He's reckless and just and it's like this is this is common practice every day in the fall on this river like every day And it's just like taken out of context, but obviously you had a situation Where a guy didn't know and like, you know, and and those are the guys that like I said, those are the guys that seem to make The drama makes the facebook post made the stick and it's like dude. It's like no no, no, no, no check yourself Check yourself boys Yeah, if there was an issue the guy in the boat would have said something or not waved you down or anything Or an idle through even yeah, just whatever my guess winter months Uh, that was fall but low water Fall schnooking, but it's close to winter. The winter was in the air. Maybe we had our first frost He'd been on the couch for a couple weeks It was just starting to get was just starting to get rolling here. We good Yep, we're just starting to get roll. Well guys. Thanks so much for tuning. Thanks. Casey brian for coming in and uh, Give us some perspective on your 250 plus days on the water each for you guys A couple reminders if you guys are out there Uh out there going after it getting after these winter seal these and you're passionate about it You want to catch them, you know communicate, you know when in rome do what the romans do don't try to mix it up and just Like be happy for once just be actually happy. Yeah That's your winter steelhead fish and I just want one last thing on it If you're not what real experience don't throw yourself in the gauntlet go to an area get comfortable with your rod Your raft your power boat, whatever it may be Putting your waders on and go get comfortable before you go into those terminal zones where The attitudes are going to flare up and stuff like that. So when you're in there, you're more comfortable And take advice take advice open-minded patience and be safe. Most of all. We'll see you guys later. Thanks