Hochul defends New York pause on AI data centers over power concerns

Thank you, Mike. Well, Governor Kathy Hochul is taking action against A. I. Data Center. She made New York the nation's first state to impose a moratorium on building new centers. This is in part meant to give the state some time to assess the impact on both the environment and surrounding communities as the centers have caused controversy over the amount of resources needed to operate. The governor is with us right now. Nice to have you back. Good morning. Good to see you. So tell us about why now put a pause on this because we have like what? 100 and something data centers already up and operating and a few more in the pipeline already under contract. Well, there's different kinds of data centers. We have the back office operations for a bank or a hospital or a university. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the hyperscaler massive, uh, the ones that consumes and guzzles so much energy. Do we have those already here though? Some, but there's many more that are applying. All of a sudden there's been this sort of wild rush to get applications and all over the country because I think the president had telegraphed that he might want some change. So everybody flood the zone. And so now we're dealing with this huge spike in the number of applications and a lot of our little communities upstate, they don't have the sophistication to be able to negotiate with a major A. I. Company and major tech company and really get good community benefits. Make sure that they're not taking too much water. And I said this in my state of the state, if you want to come here, you have to bring your own power or pay a premium to use our grid. This, these, this is what I need for the moratorium for lay out the framework. You can come, but the community has to welcome you. You have to give substantial benefits. I'm talking about millions of dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars to communities and benefits. They're doing it in other parts of the country. Yeah, because you know, you talk about upstate citizens budget, commit, uh, commission, which, you know, is a nonpartisan group, watch fiscal watchdog group. They said this would have been great for upstate new york, which you know is, you know, they don't have a lot of jobs up there. They could use them. Well, I was just at micron announcing a major milestone. I was so proud to recruit the largest private sector investment in american history. 50,000 jobs making semiconductors innovation. These are the jobs you want. I will invest the energy, the space, you know, the resources, the power into a place that is creating literally tens of thousands of jobs, a giant data center, that 1 50 megawatt center, which is what our standard is. Anything higher is now under the moratorium. That one size consumes as much power as 50,000 homes. And I've got an energy grid that is already overtaxed. You heard about the possibility of brownouts here in the city because of the heat wave that we had this year. Last summer we were perilously close to having people have to be in the dark and I can't have that in new york. So I have to manage the limited resources we have a power trying to create more power generation. But in the meantime, I can't have it spent on energy or energy consumers. That's why I'm saying bring your own power, contribute more, give more of the community and you shouldn't be getting tax breaks. I'm sorry, you're getting a tremendous benefit. I'm banning tax breaks. I'll be doing that next year's legislative session. So I have just a thoughtful approach. It's not a no, it is saying what businesses want is certainty, but new yorkers want protections and I'm going to give them both zooming out a little bit. Artificial intelligence itself is now at the center of so much of the global race to sort of get control of this thing. And some critics might say a move like this sort of puts the US behind if other states start to follow your lead. I mean, how do you react to that? I disagree. What I say is new york will always be the epicenter of innovation. We've had more technology companies lease long term space in new york city than ever in history. This is the place you want to be because we have the exceptional talent. They know we have great educational institutions. We have the smartest people coming right here to new york. So we'll always be that center of innovation and I welcome that. I am personally using AI at the state level. I'm using AI to rethink every aspect of government. I took every rule policy regulation fee and just got a report just took a couple of months instead of 10 years and I now have the results of how I can make government more efficient and get a government that's not on your back but on your side. So I understand the power of AI, but it's also wildly disruptive to the workforce. This is what I'm also focused on is all the young people who went to college and studying coding or computer sciences and the stem degrees that everybody told them to get because they'll be jobs forever. What happened to them when their jobs are being displaced by artificial intelligence? We have to manage this now because these young people are feeling hopeless. Why did I do all this? What's will the innovation economy replace me and I'm working on all the aspects of we're going to get it right. New York. We enjoy being first, but I want to make sure we're first first ones to really get it right. Just want to follow up on one thing that you said there because you're talking about these AI jobs that could potentially take other young people's sort of workplace opportunities. But one thing that is real is actual construction jobs. I mean, that's something that I can't take away. And these data centers, when you create them, you create thousands of jobs in the construction industry. How do you sort of balance that economic opportunity with these environmental concerns? I want to make sure that when localities are considering whether they want to welcome a massive, large scale data center that they also consider getting good paying jobs from the labor community. Yes, that is an important dynamic of it. But those jobs will go away after a couple of years. The jobs I'm creating at Micron, they're building out over 20 years. This is what I'm talking about. I'm thinking big here. I want my limited resources spent on the huge job careers. We're not saying no to this more from we've gone in the year. But during that time, we're gonna be smart, thoughtful about it. Put New Yorkers first because the success of one company is important to us. But you can't have success on the backs of New Yorkers. They shouldn't have to sacrifice their future so you can build yours. And that's what I'm talking about. The noise of these facilities is so loud and amazing. It's loud living in Manhattan. I have an apartment here. You know, the sirens, the police vehicles try living next to a data center and that noise that goes on all night long. So I could protect our communities companies. You can get it right. You know, the people who created the power of a technology that is changing civilization. You also can figure out how to make them quieter, how you can make them use less power, how you can make them use less water. I'm challenging them to be smart about coming up with the solutions that allow us to embrace this even further. Speaking of living in New York City, we deal with a lot here, including right now we have a very bad homeless situation and this encampment on the is growing near the intrepid. I believe it's 12 blocks long and some of these people are tapping into the utility, which is illegal and the mayor is has not really addressed the problem. Yeah, if crimes are committed, they have to be addressed full stop. Also, it is not compassionate to leave people on the streets who have mental health problems, which is why I've invested over a into more supportive housing, getting more beds for people who really have a mental illness. And this is why we changed the law to allow, you know, communities to remove people who are not able to take care of themselves. It's a new law enacted last year to say this is not compassion to leave them there. I think action is warranted and our administration is working with the administration. So let me ask you something because the mayor has a different proposal in a way of doing things here, right? He wants homeless services to take care of this. So they got seven days to try to figure this out. I've seen them and they try their very best. Would you like to go to a shelter? No. What are you going to do? The police is standing by, their hands are tied and it's growing. I mean, something has to be done. We have to get everything under control. New York City is a wonderful place, but we also have very generous services to take care of people, offer them supportive services and that's living on the streets is not compassionate for anyone. Do you think the mayor needs to change his approach a little bit? He's working on his approach. He's working on his approach and we're supporting, you know, working with him behind the scenes to help, you know, and I've seen you do news conferences all across the state talking about affordability and housing and as you mentioned, billions of dollars that you've invested here. So then why are new yorkers still seeing encampments like this? I do think what Rosanna talked about hit it on the head. There are services, there are support mechanisms, there's mental health beds and a lot of our facilities. Uh, sometimes it's a personal choice, but sometimes people do not have the mental capacity to make that decision to do the right thing. That's where we have to step in and show who we are, show the humanity of these people that I understand you may think there's a right to live on our streets, but if you're living on the streets because you cannot, you don't have the mental capacity to know when to come in in these heat waves or to come in from the cold in the wintertime or to dress properly to keep yourself alive or to feed yourself. That is not what compassion and humanity is all about. We have to get them off the streets, get them into a hospital for evaluation, get them treatment and put them into a long term care plan, which is exactly what my law requires. Does the city have the policy in place to do that? Now, state law now, this is state law. There's the ability to uh, you know, it's called involuntary commitment, not to an institution, but to a health care facility that has to evaluate over a certain period of time and not just cycle people in and out. That's what's happening. People, okay, drop them off here. They're Bellevue for a day. Okay, go out. No, no, no, no. That's not how you get people on a long term path to recovery. Let's be smart about this. And I will say we've made a huge difference. We have over 1000 people who used to live on our subways. When I got elected four years ago, I said we're not, this is not sustainable. And we work with them. We send in these teams that I funded to and the city has their own teams working together with us to talk to individuals, tell them what's available, encourage them to leave. We have 1000 people no longer living on the subways. This is how you make change. Can we talk about the latest report from the Citizens Budget Commission? And I know you're very aware of this and sensitive to big businesses leaving New York City. Their latest report basically said, um, wealthy individuals are moving out, families are moving out and single filers are coming in. People who really can't afford New York City are coming here. You had to bail out New York City $8 billion this budget. Uh, they're saying they see a $10 billion budget deficit. What do you think? How do we stop this? Well, first of all, the data that came out is from 2022. Do you think it's any better? I mean, we had an eight, we had an $8 billion budget deficit this year. Let me, let me explain. Yeah. Back then, big driver people leaving and you could draw a through line from when the Donald Trump administration and Congress got rid of the state and local tax deduction. All of a sudden, everybody in New York paid higher taxes because we used to, since Abraham Lincoln was president, they started the tax code. You never were double taxed. They changed that. So states like New York, you lost that deduction. So it got more expensive to be here just with the signing of that law 2017 2019. Those are the years when people started the out migration of businesses and individuals. And then what happens in 2020 gets slammed with the pandemic. So people who maybe had a vacation home or a temporary home in Palm Beach said, I'm moving my whole family here. I mean, the city's falling apart here. Everybody's getting sick. I'm not staying. So there's a interesting trend right that drove that factor. I don't think that's a problem now, but I'm here I am today. I'm doing what I can to stop that because I believe that we should not be raising taxes on high net worth individuals. We should not be raising taxes on the companies that are creating the jobs and generating the revenue that helps us pay for the services that people in New York City come to rely on. So I've taken a different approaches. I want to expand the pie. I'm letting businesses know that you want. We want you to succeed here. We also have to make sure that all new yorkers succeed. So this is a pro new yorker approach is to encourage the businesses to stay. And we've had more technology companies signing long term leases in the last three months than any time in history. Are you concerned, though, about the luxury market? There's talk now, uh, a new report today in the paper that the luxury market over $10 million apartments is sitting, uh, not moving. People are concerned about the pieta tear tax. Do you, are you concerned about that? Is that on your radar at all? Well, when you think about what's behind the pieta tear attacks, these are people who have, you know, we have russian oligarchs, we have saudi princes, we have people who are not necessarily new yorkers and they're buying a second home, maybe a third, maybe a fourth home of $5 million or higher. I'm not talking about someone who has a little apartment that they want to visit the grandkids, right? This is $5 million apartment and you're also getting police services, fire service. You're not paying your fair share to basically be a new yorker. And so you want to be a new yorker, make this your primary home. You don't have to pay the tax, but as long as you're someone from the outside, you're going to contribute more to the services that you use. It just makes sense instead of putting that burden on the people who really do call new york home. That's that's what we decided to do. Governor running short on time here, did want to ask you about ice very quickly. I know that there have been these two shootings across the country and talk now about whether there should be stops or should not be stops. The president sort of changed things this morning, but you've also reached out to the administration about the expansion of detention facilities um in the state. What are you, what is your biggest concern? First of all, why do you need more detention facilities? The president said he would go after the baddest of the bad, the worst of the worst and we support that. We are not a sanctuary for criminals here in the state of new york. We want it, we will always cooperate with law enforcement when someone has committed a crime, there's a court order warrant for arrest, we always have always will. And if someone has served time in our jails, we'll let you know so they can be deported when they're done doing their time for a crime. That being said, this overreach is just unamerican. I mean this is not who we are as americans to take someone, a father in houston texas and murder him. He's worked here 35 years, raised a family paying taxes where a young man, a 25 year old father with a three year old in the car to gun him down in the street. So they really think he was a threat to their lives. I mean this has gotten so out of control and people of all parties are saying stop, stop, we'll help you go after the worst of the worst. But you are now going after everyday people who reside here and are contributing. So it is, it's appalling. I was sick to my stomach when I saw the images, when I heard the story, I said this has to stop. We have a blind refugee from buffalo who was detained and was left out in the cold and froze to death in my hometown of buffalo just this last february. People are dying. I want investigations, I want to know what's happening, I want people held accountable. We appreciate you coming here this morning. Governor hocal before you go, if you get the choice, would you keep daylight saving time the entire year? Bill just passed out. I know, I know, I know. Yes or no? Yes or no? I don't know. I got to think this out because I don't want it darker longer, but I also love waking up at five o'clock in the morning and it's bright out when you're, you must get up with the crack of dawn. So, so you must want, you want to, okay, what do you want? What do you want? Yes. Okay. Keep it the same. He was too confusing. I just needed to keep it the same. Yes. Keep it the same. It's our vote. Two votes. Okay, two votes. I'll be with you. All right. Thank you so much. Governor hocal. We appreciate you coming on good day new york. We'll be right back with more of good day.