Who wants Kamala Harris to run again? | America, Actually

I'm going to let you in on a little political secret, maybe the worst kept secret in national politics. Former Vice President Kamala Harris is considering a comeback and thinking about running for president in 2028. I'm thinking about it. She went on a book tour through important Democratic primary states. She's chatting with Zohra Mamdani and she's dialing up pro-Palestinian activists to gauge their level of interest. Most importantly, though, she's leading the polls, beating out big names like California's Gavin Newsom and New York's AOC. But I covered Harris' first two presidential runs in 2019 and also in 2024. So I know that the idea of Harris the candidate is sometimes better than the reality. So I have a question. Does anybody actually want the Kamala Harris comeback to happen? I called up Democratic insiders to get their take. The person you're trying to reach is not available. Let's try somebody else. Your call has been forwarded to voicemail. At the tone, please record your message. Oh, you know, a lot of journalism is just voicemails. Oh, I'm getting a call back. Hey, how are you? This Alex? I took you to my Uber. I'm trying to get to the airport. I also talked to donors. Everything that happened has left a bad taste and we need a fresh start. And of course, the voters. Absolutely. I think Kamala Harris should run for president again. Kamala Harris 2028. Yay or yikes? That's this week on America Actually. Let's dig in. Now, on this show, we like to think about American politics beyond the question of Donald Trump. And yes, that'll be shaped by voters' opinions on things like A.I. regulation or foreign policy. But it'll also be shaped by individuals, aka the people actually running for president in the next election. And while I usually think it's too early to talk about particular candidates, that feels like it's changing right about now. Gavin Newsom has basically declared himself a candidate for the 2028 election. And AOC is the clear choice of the left should she run. But there's much less discussion about the person actually leading the 2028 polling, the former vice president. Virtually all of the recent press about Harris has actually been about the unease that Democrats feel about the prospect of her mounting another campaign. In fact, some of the stories read like Democrats are downright begging her not to jump into the race. That largely lines up with what I've heard from Democrats privately. So I decided to conduct a little experiment. Let's hear the case for Kamala Harris as described by people in her inner circle. And then let's put that case to the test with key groups that will shape her decision and the presidential primary. So I started by reaching out to her spokesperson and got a list of surrogates that they said can provide their perspective. Here's what they said. One, they excused the 2024 campaign as an anomaly. Why do I think Harris lost in 2024? I think Jesus Christ would have lost in 2024 after the assassination attempt. And Kamala Harris had to run a shortened campaign after Joe Biden dropped out. The idea that she does not deserve the opportunity to put an infrastructure in place beyond the construct of 107 days, I think is incredibly unfair. Two, they argued that Harris is a strong candidate. And there are groups of the Democratic base, particularly groups of women and black voters, who are excited by the prospect of her return. They adore her. They want her back 100 percent. Now that I've heard the logic of a Harris candidacy, I wanted to get a sense of her decision making. She's been noncommittal when it comes to the prospect of another presidential campaign. So what are the factors that actually go into that decision? I called up Jamal Simmons, her former communications director, who gave me a sense of her decision making process. Somebody's got to pay for the buses. Somebody's got to pay for those TV ads. Who is actually going to come out and support the campaign, work on the campaign, volunteer? Who's the base? Who's the base of this party? But who's the infrastructure? Simmons said that Harris needs to ask herself two important questions. Number one, are the donors behind you? And number two, are the voters behind you? And so that gave me a helpful framework to think about the next stage of our experiment. Let's talk. Now that we've heard from the party, what about everybody else? Do voters actually want another dose of Kamala Harris? Let's find out. So we went to a Juneteenth picnic in North Charleston. Now South Carolina is a crucial state for Democrats running for president. It's one of the first primary states and it has a highly influential share of black voters. OK, so I am going to write out a couple of signs that give people a sense of what we're doing here so they know to talk to us. The first is going to say podcast taping. Come chat with us. You know, something friendly to bring in the vibes. And then the second one will ask our question, should Kamala Harris run for president again in 2028? We had our signs, a yes and a no bucket for people to vote. OK, King, let's wish us good luck. You got to hit, you got to know. Yeah, thanks. What's up, y'all? You want to chat with us? Hey, y'all. How are you? Do you want to vote in our poll? Please. Pretty please. So here's the deal. It's a little experiment. We got to either vote yes, no, and tell us why. And so you can go ahead so we can look. We can not look. We can talk to you and keep it secret. It's up to you. OK. See, that's why you're not going to look at my poll. Now, I won't if you don't want me to. Now, let's all look. All right. So we're going to look. Go ahead and look. I'm just going to say, burnt out. Big time. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Now, why do you think that? Well, I mean, you know, you got Biden dropping out. You bring her in. You know, no primary. And she's like, she's stacking up the minority cards a little bit too much. You know, if it didn't go for Hillary, it's definitely not going to go for Kamala. I think we found that out. I don't think there's any need for us to dip our toe in that pool again. So what am I hearing? Is you think just like it's too hard for a woman, a black woman to win? Absolutely. One hundred percent. Just in general. Not even elections. Just in America. You know? So you're saying because of that, you think that Democrats should nominate somebody else? Absolutely. For sure. What do you think? What do you think about what he just said? I think it's hard because, like, you want black women to succeed. You want to see them. But you have to play the game. And I don't think that Kamala can win the game. Going into Election Day last year, did you think she was all ready? Did you think like, oh, a black woman can win? No, I didn't. Or what did it took after that? You're like, now I'm done. It took after that. I think I was just as surprised as I think a lot of people were to think that. It's not even like, oh, we're not as progressive. It's just like, oh, I think we're in a unique time in America where it's like, you don't need to be political to be a politician. You need to be popular. You need to be sellable. You need to be favorite. You need to be a lot more. Well, why isn't she? I mean, theoretically. She's too smart. Yeah. She's too smart. I think that people can't relate to her. I think the people in middle of nowhere, I think it's really easy in a big city to compare yourself to other people looking around. But I've lived in rural Georgia, rural Ohio, like I've lived in these rural areas where you drive and you see nothing but a Republican, you see nothing but support. And it's like, how do you change the mind? Yeah. And I don't think a person like Kamala, I think she's too far. I think, yeah, you need to consider someone like Abby Newsom, someone who looks a little bit more like what they're used to, to dip the toe in. So we're saying white guy again. Yeah. Or white woman. But you showed them how that went the first time. I want to hear you though. Are we saying white guy? I'm saying it because I'm at a point now where I would rather have a competent white man than have another Trump run that back. And I think it's unfortunate. I think it's unfortunate. That's like where we are. Yeah. But I think that we've like just progressed so far back to like, it's almost like we have to start the game over again. I think the whole Democratic Party needs to step their game up. I mean, what he's doing in the office right now, nobody's doing nothing. It's ridiculous. They need me in there. Tell us which bucket you're going to vote in. I'm going to vote in the no bucket. You're going to vote in the no bucket? Why? Only just because before she, you know, ran for president and then also was the vice president She did a lot of stuff that was not, I don't know how to say it, uh, I guess beneficial to the black community really. And a lot of times I feel like us black people, when we see someone that is of our color, they kind of like gravitate towards them because they feel as if they're going to do what's best for us. And then also I care a lot about what's happening in Palestine too. And I don't like her politics when it comes to that either. What she does is she tries to benefit off of the black community too. What do you mean by that? As in like a lot of times, like before, before like all this presidential stuff, I didn't really recall her acknowledging that she was kinfolk, if that makes sense. That makes sense to me. So, and now because it's beneficial for her and she needs our votes, she's like, I'm black and I'm proud all of a sudden. But you're saying looking forward, that's not where you want to go next. Oh. The question is, should she run again? You know what? Yeah. I mean, why not? All right. So it seems like it's if you have some problems last time, but you're not opposed to her running again. If she, yeah, if she does a lot of things and she changes certain things and she comes and hit all these pointers, especially after like dealing with Trump's presidency, I feel like we're not going to have that many candidates just willing to do half the things that she's probably willing to do, especially in this upcoming election. Because if we see what's going on, I feel like JD Baird is probably going to try to run for president and that's a heck no. So like. So you're saying if that's your two options, then you're kind of leaning more towards her. I'll lean most definitely towards her. So how about you put down what the things you would want her to see differently? You mentioned Palestine and things like that. When you're saying things that you felt weren't for the black community before, are you talking about like the criminal justice stuff? Yeah, which I understand it, but it's like, to me, I feel as if her target more so was us, if that makes sense. You're saying she was locking us up until she needed our vote? Yeah. Okay. Like, let me cut through the day. Yeah. That's what you're saying? All right. Did you vote for Kamala Harris in 2024? Yes, I did. You did? Now, do you think she should run for president again? Well, I don't see why not. I mean, I think she has the right to, just like any other American citizen. Do you think it's a good idea for the Democratic Party? Well, I'll be totally honest with you. I don't think the Democratic Party right now knows its head from a hole in the ground. So they don't have anything to lose really by putting her up there, to be honest with you, because, you know, I just basically think that right now I really don't see anyone else on the horizon that has the charisma to rally those who are opposed to the current regime right now. Mm-hmm. So we heard some people saying, like, they worry that a woman would have a tough time winning. They worry that after last time that they need somebody fresh, like, things like that. I wonder what you think about those type of things. Well, now, Joe Biden ran for president at least three or four times before he was actually elected. Yep. Okay. Ronald Reagan ran about two times before he was reelected. So I really don't think that that's an accurate comparison to say that just because you lost once doesn't mean that you shouldn't run again. Yeah. Twice. She ran twice. Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, there's no real reason why she shouldn't. You want to join us? Yes. Absolutely. Okay. So how about, you said no way. I don't think she should run again. Tell me why. Because you haven't seen her since she ran. That's the only time you've seen her, when she was politicking. Ever since then, we heard nothing else from her. So why would she run again? We're in South Carolina because this is an all-important state, all-important question. And so people like you are the exact thoughts we want to hear. So I see you pondering. I think she should. I know I wasn't pondering. I was just thinking about what I was going to say. Oh, okay. Okay. Now, can you give us a reason why? Because we need women. We need women. Women do the thing right. And every time we get a chance to make a step, they push us back. But if all of us get in together and vote for her, she can win, and then everything is going to change. Why do you think it will go differently next time than it went the last couple of times? Because she's been through it three times in charge. Third time's the charm? Third time's the charm. There we go. You're more than welcome. Thank you. You want to talk to us about what you voted and why? Well... Oh, you think she should run again? Yes. Now, the question I've been asking all the people who vote yes is, why do they think next time will go differently than last time? Because clock has opened up those eyes of those dingbats. Alright, so we're asking people if they think Kamala Harris should run for president again in 2028. We would love to know y'all's answers. Yeah! Yeah? Yeah! I think so. Why? Yeah, why? I think she had a really strong political standpoint. She had a strong ability. Yes, she really did. Like, she told us everything that was going to happen in this presidency, like in this candidacy. I feel like she genuinely wants to help everybody. Why do you think she would have a better chance of being successful in 2028 than she wasn't in 2024? Because now she can anticipate what goes wrong. Like, now she can... You're not on us to the ground. You're saying, like, the circumstances are different. Yeah. Uh-huh. She can anticipate what goes wrong. She can build her campaign based off what went wrong, and then she can build back and come back stronger. Uh-huh. So, I think she has, like, great candidacy. Some people are like, you know, we might, you know, Democrats might need a white guy Is that a fear that you all have? No, black women can do anything. I think people in this country have gotten too comfortable... For sure. ...being outwardly against groups of people. Uh-huh. You're saying there's a moment of recognition that Trump is kind of fumble that you think that Harris can now come back and seize him. Is that right? Hear you all right? It's possible. OK. In a nutshell, America's not ready for a woman to lead. I would love to see her take office, but I have to agree. I don't think the United States is ready right now to actually put a woman in the office. I don't think there'll never be a woman president in the United States. Now, wait, wait, wait. You can't just walk away on that. Tell us why. Because of the system. Mm-hmm. And if you look at the system, there's been all men from the beginning of time. Certainly. But, you know, I mean, as of 2007, there was only white guys for a whole period of time. Yeah. Why can't that system change? Well, if we could get out and do the right thing, yeah. Mm-hmm. That's the man thing. Doing the right thing. I would say Harris. Harris? And why? Yeah. Well, I didn't think she got a fair shot the first go-round. Uh-huh. Wasn't enough time for her to get in what she needed to as far as getting the word out for what she can actually implement, if anything at all, or just, you know, talking to people and doing the whole. You just think that she had too little bit of time left. Uh, I'll ask you. What do you think? I would be, I would vote for her again if she ran again. Uh-huh. But do you want her to run again? I don't know if I want her subjected to all she had me subjected to. Uh-huh. Yours seems to be more like, you don't want to see her go through that again? Interesting. Now, is that something, is that a penalty of, like, racism and sexism you think would apply to any black woman running? Absolutely. So this isn't Harris specific. Uh-huh. Okay, so I'm just going to tell you straight up. I'm not a chump. Right. And when you're dealing with the Rethuglicans, you have to, you really have to step up and be ready to, to deal with them. And I think Gavin Newsom, uh, he's ready to throw punches. He's ready to fight. He's not afraid of them. He won't back down, you know, from them. So, I'm hoping that we can have, if not Kamala, which I think she won't back down either, but if not Kamala, um, I just want it to be someone with a backbone. Someone who's going to stand up to them. The election is, primary is today, and you have to choose between Newsom and Harris. Who do you vote for? I'm still rolling with Harris. Okay. I'm rolling with Harris all the way. Support for this show comes from Mint Mobile. When you're buying a new phone plan, transparency is everything. That's why Mint Mobile makes sure that you get your wireless plan with no gotcha. Just high-speed 5G data. And right now, plans start at just $15 per month, even for unlimited. We have a colleague here at Vox who's on Mint, and he swears by it. He said it saves him so much money, and he's never run into an issue about where his data might be limited. To get your new wireless plan for just $15 per month, go to MintMobile.com slash Estet. That's MintMobile.com slash Estet. Cut your wireless bill to just $15 per month. That's it. There is no catch. Upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12 months. Plan required, $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when the network is busy. Includes up to 20 gigabyte hotspot. Capable device required. Availability, speed, and coverage varies. See MintMobile.com for more details. Alright, so I'm back in New York, and I'm getting ready to count the votes from South Carolina. But before we do that, there is one person I really wanted to talk to. Now remember, Kamala Harris' former communications director, Jamal Simmons, told me that she needs the support of two groups in order to mount another campaign. She needs her base, who we talked to in South Carolina. And she needs the donors. And so to get a temperature check on that group, I decided to call up John Morgan. I'm John Morgan, and I'm a lawyer in Florida. John's an influential mega-donor. He first got involved in Democratic politics way back in Bill Clinton's years. Donated and raised tens of millions of dollars. So I decided to start by asking him straight up, do you want Kamala Harris to run for president again? I do not. I think that everything associated with the Biden administration needs to be put to the side and moved on. I mean, Hillary Clinton came out saying that everything that happened was a disaster. He made a terrible mistake for himself, his legacy, and for the country. He had said that he would not run again. I just think that everything that happened has left a bad taste, and we need a fresh start on that side of the aisle. And look, I understand how she's feeling because the books I read, I think she went to bed thinking she had a shot. You can imagine her feelings to have felt that she was that close. And look, she knows why. I mean, she had a short campaign. She was tied to Biden. I think it's time to turn the page. New book, new song book. And I don't think the money would come to her and the votes wouldn't come. That was my second question. I hear your individual opinion. Do you think, from a donor community largely, that there's any appetite for a Harris return? I don't. And look, her natural base is going to be California, and she's going to be competing heavily with Gavin Newsom in California. So they're going to be kind of cannibalizing each other's donors. But are you hearing that privately? Because I'm sure there's conversations that you're having among the donor class. I'm hearing it privately, and I'm hearing it publicly. I mean, the loss was so spectacular with so much money. I mean, it was not as bad as McGovern in 1972, but it was a shellacking. If people are privately saying that they don't think Harris should run, why was there such reticence to say it publicly? When we talked to people, we were calling folks around, people I kind of know privately even might be skeptical. But there's a real concern about saying it out loud. If Democrats think her running again puts them in a worse position, why not just say it? Well, Democrats are so worried about being labeled and saying something like, oh, I got you. But I think people think to say no to her, they could be labeled racist. And they don't want that because they're Democrats. I guess to play devil's advocate against even my last point, what would be so bad about her throwing her hat in there? Like, you know, should donors kind of have the right to preclude someone or kind of get ahead of their decision process in the ways that might not be where the electorate is? No, absolutely not. Listen, when you have a robust primary with everybody taking real bullets and shooting real bullets, the strong usually survive. And so I'm not saying she should not run. I'm saying if you believe that's your destiny, I believe that the journey is the reward, not necessarily the win. And if I was thinking like her, I would never want to go to my grave wondering what if. I mean, one of the things, you know, she's got to really be thinking about, and we all would if we were her, if she did throw her hat in the ring and if the money didn't come, it would be very embarrassing. That's kind of where I was going to land, is like, if what you're saying is that you don't think the money would necessarily flow to her if she came back, doesn't that create some sort of awkwardness? Like if the former vice president was to run for president again and there's not an appetite from the highest levels of the party, that would seem sort of unsustainable as a campaign. It would be. And it would be very hurtful to her because she'll be going. Look, she knows where all that money is coming from. And so her first calls would be to go back to all of that. Go back to those folks. And guess what? She might be doing it now. If I was her, I would. I'd be ferreting out who's in and who's out. And I don't think that she'll jump in if she starts getting a lot of no's. But by no means should she just say, hey, the donor class doesn't want me. The donor class doesn't get to decide who the people get to decide. The donor class get to decide who they're going to support. And by the way, it's going to be about 15 people. If Kamala Harris does kind of end up getting in the race, would you sit out money-wise? How would you play that if she were seeming to return, if Democrats looked like they were going to nominate her again? I did not appreciate the anointing of Kamala Harris for president. I believe that there should have been a brief, aggressive primary to let the best person win. And I think that what Joe Biden did is he was pissed off. It was an F-you to Nancy Pelosi. And in a fit of anger, and maybe in a fit of daze, he just made her the nominee. And everybody had to live with it. All right, my last question, John, is, okay, let's say, if Harris isn't the standard bearer you're seeking for a more moderate, liberal lane, who are the names that you're excited by, who you think could occupy what the Biden administration was supposed to represent, but in a new, fresh form? The ironic part about the Democratic Party is they have a long bench, big bench. And I think there are people like Andy Beshear, who won three times in a very red state. I think Mark Kelly, who was attacked by the Trump administration and he fought back. I think Wes Moore in Maryland is like, you know, just, I mean, off the charts, charismatic. I don't think you can count Whitmer out. Look, there are so many good ones. The Democratic Party has a lot of options. John, it kind of sounds like you're saying anyone but Harris. I would not want her, and I would not want Buttigieg. Just saying, anyone but, anyone tied to Biden. Yes. The campaign needs to be called Bye Bye Biden. Like the, what was that, NSYNC or the Backstreet Boys? Yeah, yeah, yeah, NSYNC, Bye Bye Bye. Bye Bye Bye. It needs to be Bye Bye Bye Biden. And everybody associated with it, all the campaign managers, everybody that worked on the campaign, just go home. Let's start fresh. Let's see what we can get. John, I appreciate your time. Thank you, and let's stay in touch as we keep going through the cycle. All right, you're good at this. I appreciate it. Okay, so it's finally time to count the votes from our afternoon at the Juneteenth picnic in North Charleston. We asked dozens of people about whether they think Kamala Harris should run for president again, or whether they would prefer a new option. She is intelligent, and we need to bring hope back alive. We need more women in government. Yes, she should run. People are fed up with MAGA and Republicans. And as we tally up the votes, it seems like a firm victory for the yes corner. About 60-40 split. Here are some of the reasons we heard from the noes. Folks are still racist and sexist, and you need a new face. Fresh face ideas, a lot of use of the term fresh. No, we're burnt out. When you hear the reasons that people laid out in both the yes and the no buckets, there is a desire among some parts of the base seemingly for her return. But at the same time, the skepticism represented by people like John was also clear in Charleston, which I think speaks to the uncertainty that is currently gripping the Democratic Party. Even among the supposed frontrunner who is leading the polling at the top of their 2028 prospective candidates, they can't even agree whether it's a good idea, whether that person gets in the race or not. America Actually will be in your feeds every Saturday with an interesting interview in politics or culture. And you can, of course, listen to us wherever you get your podcast or in the Today Explained feed. The best way to support this show is by becoming a Vox member. Members get a bonus segment on Patreon every week. And of course, we are very grateful for their support. Go to Vox.com slash members to join. That is Vox.com slash members to join. And before we go, our friends at the Unexplainable Science Podcast have been cooking up something special. Unexplainable investigates the big questions that we all have that we still don't quite have answers to about our bodies, about the universe and the world around us. And starting July 13th, you can watch the Unexplainable podcast on Netflix every Monday. Here's a sneak peek. Why can't you watch Unexplainable on Netflix? You can watch Unexplainable on Netflix. Unexplainable is a science podcast from Vox about everything we don't know. It's coming to Netflix July 13th. What? You are finally going to be able to see some of the things that you previously could only hear. 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