InFocus featuring Janet Domenitz (MASSPIRG)

From the 22 News Plus Studio, this is 22 News In Focus with Patrick Berry. Hello everyone and welcome to this edition of In Focus. I'm your host Patrick Berry. We live here in Massachusetts and we are very thankful because we have a wealth of wonderful outdoor spaces, wonderful clean air that we have, recycling programs or whatever it may be. But there's an organization here in the state that really kind of makes sure all that stays in check and that we have great quality of life and great way of living. And I'm excited today because joining me across the desk today is Janet Dominitz. She is the Executive Director of MassPERG. So thank you so very much for joining me today. When you first sat down in that chair, I said to you, I know this much about MassPERG, but you guys have been around for a long time. And that's why I wanted you here because I'm probably no different than a lot of people. We just, we don't know much about the organization. I really appreciate the opportunity. I'm so glad to be here. And I will say the story starts in Western Mass because MassPERG was founded at the University of Massachusetts in Amherst in 1971. In the early seventies, we've been around over 50 years. It started with college students and maybe some of your viewers remember then University President Bob Wood was a huge supporter of the idea of PERG, which was in the seventies, students need to learn more than just what's in the classroom. Of course, academic learning is crucial, but part of getting educated as a college student is learning. How do you make a difference? How do you help improve the world? How do you get those hands-on skills? And the first MassPERG chapter was founded at UMass Amherst in 1971. That is too funny. So what do you do on a day-to-day basis? When I started this conversation, I talked about clean air and great way of life and safety and healthy. Is that sort of the overarching umbrellas? First of all, the word PERG stands for public interest research group. Now, the good news is we have enough name recognition now that we're not going to change it, but we do a lot more than research. That said, to think about what are the issues we work on, we take those two words literally, we work on public interest issues. So as you said in your opening, when we all breathe the air, we all drink water, we all go outside and our- Basis to human survival. Exactly. And so our agenda is how do we make, how do we elevate the public interest? Now, as you probably have guessed, there's also special interests. And so our work really focuses on where is the public interest being inhibited because of special interest influence? So just jumping on that phrase, special interest, are you a liberal organization, a conservative organization? Are you tied to any political party or are you neutral? Yeah. So let me take the second one first. We are 100% non-partisan. Non-partisan. End of statement. Yes. And then I don't think air, water, outdoors, I don't think those are liberal or conservative. I think those are common sense and important to everybody. So we bristle at being pigeonholed in any one category other than the public interest category. And I think our history and our legacy shows that we have fought for more than 50 years for interest of the public. So what are some of the things that Mass Perk has fought for that people might not recognize, but might take a step back after you say it and go, oh yeah, that's right. I just got an article about how expensive used cars are becoming. Oh my gosh. It's ridiculous. It's a challenge. It reminded me, I believe it was 25 years ago that we helped with State Senator Lois Pines of Newton pass the state's first lemon law. So protections for consumers that were buying used cars. So were lemon laws that was originated in Massachusetts? I don't think we were the first state, but the law that passed here 25 years ago, that was top on our agenda. And I think it's a consumer protection and you asked what might people know the issue, but not know that we're connected to it. And Mass Perk was, let me mix metaphors here, the engine behind the lemon law. So that's one example. Another one you and I were talking about earlier, when I walked in the door in 1980, the big campaign we were working on then was around recycling, trying to get deposits on beverage containers so that they would end up recycled rather than litter and waste. And we pushed the law through the legislature. Governor Ed King vetoed it. And we ended up going to the ballot in 1982. And that's how we got that law established at the very beginning in 1982. So going back to the early 80s, the little top of the soda can or on your wall bottle or whatever it is that Mass MA5 sends, that's because of Mass Perk. Going to the ballot in 1982. Well, first we ran a legislative campaign. The governor was from Lynn, Massachusetts, where there was a huge Coca-Cola bottling plant. And they've never been supporters of this deposit system. So I can't speak for the governor, may he rest in peace. But he vetoed it, even though there was a lot of public support. And then we won on the ballot in 1982. You know, it's funny. I think back. We recycle so much now that it's hard to remember being a child or not even that long ago. We weren't recycling as much as we are now. Absolutely. It's in a scheme of things, you know, relatively new. I mean, the very first Earth Day was 1970. And I think that's when, writ large, the environment, you know, sort of got on the radar for people. And recycling came, you know, shortly thereafter. But yeah, it's relatively a new idea. You're funny. We are up on our first commercial break. Stay with us. We've got plenty more to talk about when it comes to Mass Perk. We're back in a moment. This is 22 News in focus with Patrick Berry. This is 22 News in focus with Patrick Berry. Welcome back, everyone, to this edition of In Focus. Janet Dominance is across the desk from me. I got your name right this time, didn't I? And she is the executive director of Mass Perk. And I want to thank you so very much for joining me. I didn't get a chance to ask you during the first block, because we already got right off on some interesting topics. How did you get involved? You said you got started with Mass Perk in 1980? 1980, right out of college. Well, a few months after college. I think I had this sense of, I should get some real world experience before I go to grad school, which, fast forward, never happened for those hanging by a thread. But I did think I should get some real world experience. I went to Brandeis University, and there was a strong sense of like, everyone here should go out into the world and, you know, help solve a problem or two or more. So I found this organization in one of those old-fashioned, like, actual directories of nonprofits. And I just remember that book sitting on my table. It was called Good Works. And I just went through, and I scheduled interviews on my IBM Selectric typewriter, sending out cover letters. Adding the stamp to the envelope. Exactly. And then I got hired, and I thought, okay, I'll do this for a year, and then head to law school. And now it's almost 46 years later. What I find interesting, though, is that the idea that started on the UMass Amherst campus within 10 years was pretty well known across college campuses across the state. Yeah, it really took off like wildfire. I think people were, listen, let's go back. I'll sort of set the stage. In 1971, on the cover of Time magazine, the biggest domestic problem on the cover, student unrest on college campuses. That doesn't shock me. What would shock me most is the date. I would have thought student unrest would have come a little earlier than that, late 60s, just because of the Kennedy assassinations, Vietnam, race riots, but not until the early 70s. Well, I mean, maybe there were more, but that one is marked in my head because at the point where Pergs were getting off the ground, we were, I mean, I wasn't there, but this is the story we tell, and there are files still, which is another problem. The paper that I won't throw away. But anyway, the idea was we're going to work within the system. We want to be on the campus, have faculty sponsor internships. We want to be integrated into the community and solve problems within the system. And that, for that time, was very welcome by college administrators. As I said earlier, the president of UMass rolled out the red carpet and it really took off very quickly here and around the country. So that's an interesting point. Mass Perg is just one of 50? Is there one for every state? It's not one for every state. I would say around the country, probably 24 or 25-ish, something like that. Yeah. Now, is Mass Perg a division of a larger organization or is it- We consider ourselves part of a federation. So Mass Perg, California Perg, Illinois Perg, Arizona Perg, we all are in a federation, and we were the ones who, in the later 80s, started an office in D.C. So most of the groups that I've experienced over the years, the energy is in Washington, D.C., and then maybe there are these state chapters out in the world. It was the opposite for us. We started as state organizations and we came together and said, you know, we should have an office in D.C. and lobby Congress on these same issues. So that's how it was born and we still have an office in D.C. What has been the legislation or legislator response to the federation? I think it totally varies the way legislators vary. Okay. Do you have anybody that's a strong proponent? I would say Bernie Sanders from Vermont, is he a strong proponent? Do you have anybody in the legislature that is your cheerleader? Yeah. So in Congress, I think we have been, you might imagine, looking for bipartisan opportunities in order to be as effective as possible. Absolutely. So the bills that are on the top of the list now are ones where we've got a Republican and a Democrat together going, this makes sense to us. So for example, we have right to repair legislation in Congress, which is hugely popular with Republicans and Democrats, and we're pushing a bill that has several co-sponsors on each side of the aisle. I mean, we're just very, as I said earlier, we're very practical and common sense about trying to move the ball forward. And it seems like just in the short time you and I have been together, it seems like a lot of the things that you're talking about just seem like common sense. They are. But then if you take, for example, right to repair in the Massachusetts legislature, we also have a bill and every bill has a public hearing. So I want your viewers to know that they're always, and now after COVID, you can participate on Zoom or come into the state house. Every bill that is filed gets a public hearing where anyone can show up and you absolutely do not have to be an expert in any way, shape, or form. You get three minutes. They're pretty strict about that. It's like your town government meeting. Anybody can show up, they have public participation, and you get your chance to speak. And so I think that's, I hope if people take away one thing from today, I want everyone to know every bill in the Massachusetts legislature has a public hearing and they are entitled and encouraged to show up for anything they care about. I say all that because at the public hearing for this right to repair bill, which just- Explain the right to repair. I was going to say, just to make sure everyone knows what I'm talking about, you purchase a phone or a laptop or a tablet, you own it, you should be able to repair it. But over the last decade or so, these companies are making them so that the pieces are not repairable, you don't get the directions, the items wear out and they try and convince you it's more expensive to repair it than to just buy another thing. Meanwhile, so much waste, electronic waste is the worst kind of waste. Oh, and our landfills, it's brutal. The dollar's coming out of your pocket. So anyway, we're trying to make companies accountable and require that they provide you with the tools you need and the instructions, they're called schematics, so that you can repair your own electronic devices. We shouldn't have to have a law, but at this point we do because these things have become out of reach. At the public hearing, who shows up but the lobbyists for the American Electronics Association and they talk about how this is proprietary information and they have all these, what's the French word for BS? The industry shows up because they don't want us to be able to repair our things. They want us to toss and purchase and toss and purchase. And so it's common sense. And yet in pretty much every issue we work on, there are these special interests, well-heeled, that push hard. And it takes longer to make a common sense reform happen than you would hope. Interesting. I had no idea. And that's different from the automotive right to repair bill that was several years ago. It is different. And that was sort of, you know, Goliath versus Goliath, because it is a different industry. We're talking about small electronics that consumers, you know, have in their everyday lives and it's, you know, we're pushing and we have a really good pair of legislators. Adrian Motoro is a rep from East Boston and Michael Brady is a senator from Southeastern Mass and they've been really good champs. There are also thousands of bills filed each session. Right. And so you have to fight hard to get yours to the top of the list. We're hopeful that this one has a shot. Very good. We are up on our second commercial break. Plenty more to talk about. We're back in just a minute. This is 22 News In Focus with Patrick Berry. Welcome back, everyone, to this edition of In Focus. I'm your host, Patrick Berry. Today, we are talking with Janet Dominance. She is the executive director of MassPIRG. Janet, thank you so very much for taking some time out of your busy schedule today and joining me here in our Chiggabee studios because you came out from Cambridge. So thank you very much. It's great to be here. Absolutely. You know, way back at the very beginning of this conversation, we kind of touched on recycling and the bottle bill and so forth. But here we are in 2026. That, what is it, 30, 40-year-old legislation is back on the agenda. Yeah. Why? So when we passed it in 1982, it was wildly popular for people who weren't around then. A lot of container, beverage containers were glass. And so it wasn't, litter wasn't just unsightly. It was dangerous. We had at the, I was just talking before the break about public hearings for legislation. I remember in the years leading up to the bottle bill passage, we would have like emergency room doctors come to testify in favor. Really? Yeah, because- Just people stepping on glass or incidents- The kids on the baseball field, what have you. So it was- So it's funny. I want to interrupt you there because- Yeah, of course. I, for those people who don't remember, milk jugs were glass. Yeah. Those big plastic two-liter soda bottles were glass. Yeah. And so it wasn't just like, yeah. It wasn't just litter and waste, although I hate to say just, because those are both really important things. It was also a matter of public health. So for many reasons, it was very popular. And for the first like 15 or 20 years, what we call the redemption rate. So if you went and bought a soda right now, you paid a nickel, and then you bring it back to the store or to a redemption center and get your nickel back, that's redemption. The redemption rate here was like 75, 80 into the 80%. It was hugely popular. Okay. Over the last, I'm going to say 20 years, a few things have happened in no particular order. One, everyone understands inflation. So a nickel has become less and less valuable. If we took the nickel from 1982 and updated it to 2026, I believe it would be 16 cents. Wow. So the nickel has become less valuable and therefore the law less effective. Secondly, in the early eighties, pretty much the only kind of single use beverage on the counter was carbonated. Okay. And so written into the law is this deposit is for carbonated beverages, because that's what was on the shelves. Water, iced tea, juice, all these beverages, they're literally called new age because they only came on the market like 20 or so years ago. Those containers don't have a deposit because in the legislation, in the law, it says for carbonated beverages. So that's the second reason the law has become less and less effective. It doesn't cover everything on the shelves. Here we are in 2026, a think tank literally called the Container Recycling Institute. All they do is study recycling of containers all over the world. They put out a study last year where on the planet earth, Massachusetts is dead last for the effectiveness of their redemption center because other states and other countries have updated their law, either going from a nickel to a dime or a quarter in some cases and or expanding the types of beverages that are covered by the deposit system. So Massachusetts, which is a leading part of this world in so many different things, we are dead last. And I'm talking about in the world. In the world. Because for anyone who's traveled in a lot of the European countries, Canada, deposits are part of everyday life. So the Container Recycling Institute, you can go on their website, find the report. They compared all the deposit systems around the world. We are last. It is a distinction with dishonor. And MassPIRG and a number of other organizations have been pushing for years to update the law to go from a nickel to a dime. And remember, it's a deposit. And the industry loves to call it a tax. It's not a tax. Because that's the boogeyman and that's how they get it blocked. But it is not a tax. Most of us paid our taxes a couple of months ago. There's no redeeming. You can't show up and go, I paid these thousands of dollars in taxes. I'd like my redemption now. No, that's not how it works. So the industry, you know, the people who make the cans and bottles, they don't want to take them back. It's on us. We have to deal with the litter and waste. With the bottle bill, they take the containers back. That's part of the loop. So, of course, they lobby hard against it. And so far in Massachusetts, their lobbying has prevailed. But we will keep fighting. And so before we run out of time, so here we are in 2026. Is that something that voters will face or the legislators will face this year? Absolutely not. And I'll tell you why. We went to the ballot in 2014. We had so much support. We had hundreds of organizations on our side. Governor Patrick would run around with us, do the press conference. We had so much support. And right after Labor Day in 2014, the American Beverage Association, the big supermarket chains, they all came in. They spend almost $10 million. And we got crushed because they buy the TV ads. They have all the money in the world to hire, you know, the expensive advertising. And we lost. And it's the, unfortunately, the ballot question method, which used to be a place for citizens to have their voice, in many cases has been like, you know, just taken over by the special interests. So I don't think we'll be going back to the ballot anytime soon. We don't want it. We're not gluttons for punishment that way. It is common sense. The public wants less waste and litter. We have studies showing how effective an updated bottle bill would be. So we'll keep pushing forward on the common sense merits. Fantastic. Janet, I can't thank you enough for joining me today. Hopefully we can have you back in the studio again. It was great. I really appreciate you having me out here. It's just a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so very much. Thank you.