What every Christian parent should know about autism

I truly felt God had given me a broken gift, that he had given other people better gifts than he had given me. And it caused anger, it caused jadedness, it caused cynicism, mistrust in God. And so I had a little bit of a phase of like, I'm doing this on my own, God. You know, following you has got me here where I'm at today. So I'm gonna take it from here for a little bit. And I kind of dissociated myself from church family. I was hurt, I was jaded, judgment and shame from the church community. It was not a safe place all the time. And then as the Lord said, get to know her, get to know the gift in her. See the gift that I have given you and I have placed her with you for such a time as this. And it was a very slow process of reminding myself that God is a good God and works all things for good and all the, who God says he is, because it was difficult at times. Some people at church would say things like, you know, you must have sin in your life or generational curses, or God must have known you couldn't handle other kids. I mean, there's all these things that people said. And that, I had to realize that was not God. That was people of God, not representing God very well. And that's a hard thing to navigate sometimes. Well, hi and welcome to Practice Makes Parent, where we understand it's not about perfection, but about transformation. I'm Dr. Danny Huerta. And I'm Rebecca St. James. And we have a wonderful episode coming up that I think is gonna be very, very helpful for parents in knowing how to handle the topic of autism and children on the autism spectrum. And I think every single one of us knows somebody who is dealing with this if we're not dealing with it directly. So it's a big issue. Yeah, there's a lot of ground to cover on this topic. I mean, there's from health issues, there's a lot of dietary things to consider with autism, and then to behavioral issues, emotional issues, possible issues at school, sibling relationships, all kinds of things. So there's lots to talk about. I'm excited about this interview. Me too. And later on in the show, we will be answering a voicemail from a mom who would like some advice on how to show love to a family member who is living a lifestyle that doesn't align with their beliefs and how to handle that graciously and well. So we're looking forward to that as well. This is gonna be a great episode, so stick around. Our guest today is Dr. Stephanie Holmes, and she got her doctorate from Abilene Christian University, and she's an ordained minister. And also professionally in this. So it's gonna be fun to dance in both worlds with you. All right, let's go. Can you share just a little bit about your story, a little bit about how you entered into this special field of study? Where was the passion behind your heart for this? It is my, I'm so about people's stories. Yeah, like what makes you tick? Like what makes you want to be in this conversation right now and encourage families? That's a great question. You know, it started for me, I do have my master's in counseling, and so my original goal was to work with marriage and family just in difficult conversations. I really felt called to the church because mental health has been something, the church with a capital C is sometimes struggled with, and the kind of different complexities that that can bring for marriage and family. So that's kind of where I was starting off. And that's an important part of the story because when I was in school, the diagnosis manual called the Diagnostic Statistical Manual version four came out in 1994, and it introduced high functioning autism and Asperger's syndrome. And the professor said, you will never see this. This is like one in 10,000 individuals on the spectrum, kind of all these stereotypes. So you just know it for diagnosis purposes, move on. I was like, okay, memorize the thing, took the test. And then my daughter is born, we're noticing some things that are different. And because of my developmental psychology background, I did notice that some things were a little bit different. It seemed like some things were developing at different rates. And my brain said, is this that Asperger thing that I was never supposed to see? Because this doesn't feel, I don't feel equipped for this. And so as I began to just dig into that, following my mom instinct and my developmental psychology instinct, that kind of landed me at what was then called Asperger's and now autism level one. But when she was diagnosed, while I was a clinician, I still didn't have any skills. I didn't have any know-how on how to parent an autistic child. I just had some clinical knowledge as to what the criteria were. Yeah, and let's talk about those a little bit. What did you see in your daughter? What were the red flags that caught your attention? And then how did you go through that process of figuring this out? Some of the things that I was seeing, I thought was obsessive compulsive disorder or anxiety related. She would like to line things up. She had a big vocabulary, but didn't necessarily understand the context, the relationship, how things were going on. And so that was like my first thing. And when things would change, it would just throw her off or something like we're gonna go to the park on Saturday. Okay, and then it's raining, it's torrential raining outside. So obviously we are not going to the park on Saturday and that just causing a huge dysregulation and logic not working. Honey, it's raining, but you said we were going to the park. It's storming outside. Nobody's going to the park, but you said you lied, you promised. And so these are like, okay, these things aren't adding up developmentally. There's like some things that are really excelled and some things that are really behind. And so I really need to look into the gap of her intellect and her social skills, these repetitive behaviors, needing routines, sameness. And then she was a super picky eater because of textures and how things felt in her mouth or how it looked on the plate. What a good list to work off of, Stephanie, you just provided. And I remember one of my only sessions as a therapist where I had to actually restrain a child was with a child who's about 10-ish years old and had high-functioning autism or Asperger's as a diagnosis. And his dad had said, hey, after the session, we're not going to be doing this thing that he was planning on doing. And he just lost it and actually jumped over and attacked his dad in the middle of the session, just jumped on him. And I had to grab and restrain him. And it was a moment where the actual session had to stop in that moment. I actually had to carry him out because he tended to be violent in that home. And as I was going out, there were some new clients sitting in the waiting room and they're seeing me carry this kid. Did they leave before the session? No, they're just watching me as I'm carrying this child out and the dad's ahead of me. And we had to go outside and just kind of regroup and reset. That would be an extreme situation. That's an extreme situation, but it was a moment where there was a lockup. And just in his brain, he had expected this to happen in the way that it happened for him. It doesn't always happen this way. He would have this very strong emotional reaction to it. It dysregulated him emotionally, as Stephanie, as you were talking about. When we're thinking about a diagnosis, how does a person go about getting this diagnosis and kind of ruling this out? Because it's a big deal to have this become a diagnosis because now you're able to find the right treatment path for your child and very treatable. Very treatable, you can give a lot of great tools. So how does a person or parent begin that path and understanding that, getting the diagnosis? So kind of the things that you're looking for, one thing, let me kind of put it out there, very important that you're keeping up with your pediatrician and kind of talking through developmental milestones. Your pediatrician might be part of that process and kind of talking about what's happening from stage to stage and things that you're noticing. But not all pediatricians really understand high-functioning autism, what used to be called Asperger's, autism level one, especially in girls. So the pediatrician might be part of it. Where most people end up in getting a diagnosis is entering school, entering preschool or entering kindergarten, elementary school. Because maybe at home, there weren't a lot of the stressors that would activate someone into dysregulation. But now you're going into a school system, either maybe a mother's morning out even, at something at a church-based or something in formal education. And now there are very specific rules, protocols, routines, overcrowded classroom, lots of noises. And some of those things are starting to, this person may not have the compensatory strategies to handle those things. And so you mentioned that some might get really dysregulated. My daughter was one of those who would get a little assertive and aggressive. Some may elope, they just like run away, they get scared and they flee. And then some might shut down, almost borderline dissociate, overwhelmed, can't function. You call their name and they're not there. So that fight-flight-freeze is very, very easily activated in an autistic child. And what does a parent do at that point? Say the school is saying, hey, we're seeing that there might be some autistic tendencies here, they might be on the spectrum. Will the school or a pediatrician suggest resources at that point? What would be your go-to resource for a parent that this is flagging? I think the earlier, the better. Because while there's not so much a treatment as in this person will no longer be autistic, protocols and different things that we can introduce to the child, the earlier we do, the better the outcomes. But that's not to say for any parent who you've missed it and your child's a teenager, they're not lost. They're not forlorn. There are still things that can be done. But the earlier, the better. And so if the pediatrician doesn't see it, the school will only mention it as much as it is impeding the classroom or impeding learning for other students. So they do have a concept called child find that if someone's education is being impacted by some form of disability or disorder or diagnosis, then they're supposed to run that through the school psychologist. But public schools are very big and school counselors and school psychologists might have 50, 60 students assigned to them at one time. And you could start that in August and might not even come up with an evaluation or something till the end of the school year. So sometimes you might then, if you're insurance or you have resources, you would do what's called an independent evaluation where maybe you wanna go to a clinical psychologist and have a full evaluation of processing and learning and autism or ADHD and get a bigger picture of what's happening for the child. One of the reasons that I love that you're on this show today is because I think as parents, we can go to the fear place really fast of I don't understand this. I don't know what to do with it, and just get kind of panicky. And I think what you're saying is don't panic within the child or it just helps. So can you speak to that, the effective therapies that you're seeing? Sure, and for each child, for neurotypically developing children, pencil feels in my hand. My daughter was very sensory sensitive to the way scissors felt on her hand or holding a pencil. So occupational therapy, about working through some of those sensory sensitivities, those can be super helpful. And a good occupational therapist that's trained in autism who knows the specific things for getting the central nervous system regulated and giving skills and tools, sometimes physical therapy. Some kids, not all, might be a little clumsy or awkward and might need help with gross motor skills, especially like they're using playground equipment. Maybe they don't know how to do the monkey bars. Maybe they can't get their feet going in the right way to use a swing. So maybe physical therapy can help with some of those things. ABA or Applied Behavioral Analysis is very controversial. I wanna say I used to be very against it 20 years ago because it felt a lot like dog training, which was not cool with me. I felt like we were really telling kids to listen to all adults for all reasons. And that felt like that also puts them in a vulnerable position. So new ABA that is more trained on autism is more about learning specific skills and social nuances and maybe focusing on things that could be really problematic. The one that's often missed that I feel is so important is social language pragmatics. For many of our autistic kids, let's say they're autism level one, they have average or above average intelligence, they are missing how to use language in a social relational way. So if I can do a little bit of a demonstration of how I'm gonna say a sentence in five different ways, the exact same words, how an autistic person is missing out on the nuances. So the sentence I wanna say is, I didn't say you took my purse, okay? So if I say it the first way, I didn't say you took my purse, but somebody else said it. I didn't say you took my purse, but I indicated in some other way that you did. I didn't say you took my purse, but I said somebody took my purse. I didn't say you took my purse, you took somebody else's purse. I didn't say you took my purse, you took something else that belonged to me. So as you see, there was body, if you're watching the video, there was body, there was face, there was tone, but the exact same words were said. Those kind of nuances are missed with our autistic kids and teens. And that becomes problematic with joking, bullying, teasing, how to pass an interview, how to get a college scholarship, how to interact with professionals. That's a higher level of communication. And that, even though the person can have a huge vocabulary, that missing piece of how to use language pragmatically, that is really important for kids to have some training and social skills. Yes, it is. And I think it's important to also understand just how differently the brain is processing that information that it's taking in through the sensory world. Can you talk to that a little bit? What's the difference between that autistic brain and a neurotypical brain? Because it connects to this, on that sensory input, especially socially, emotionally, faces, all that. What's the difference in the brain processing? Okay, I could totally geek out on this, on the structure of the brain. But I thought when I was looking this over, like, well, maybe two or three things that I could share that might be helpful. So one important thing, we don't really understand the why, but there is a lot of inflammation in autistic and ADHD brains. So for some people, not all, that's when you might get the gluten-free, dairy-free, or the anti-inflammation diet going. It's not going to cure autism, but anything any person can do that can remove inflammation in their brain is a good thing. So sometimes it's that inflammation in the brain that's kind of keeping the brain from talking to each other, talking right to left and back and forth with each other. So we know there's more inflammation in the brain. Another key piece is the piece that connects the right and left hemisphere. It's called the corpus callosum. And it's this little piece that's very important because the right and left hemisphere need to be able to talk to each other to give accurate information. And we know that that little piece is smaller and it doesn't always transmit information back and forth to the right and left brain. So that might be some of this misunderstanding of what people are saying, what's going on, the social context, the feelings that I'm feeling in my body, the feelings that you're feeling, not being able to process that. And then you mentioned the sensory world. And so what's definitely different structurally is the amygdala. The amygdala is our fight, flight, or freeze system. It's usually the size of a pea in most people. It's the size of a walnut in autistic people. So the sensory information coming in or the threats in your office that day, when dad said, we're not going to do that, that person's brain said, dad is an enemy or dad is a threat. And it started running him through as if dad was a bear or a snake. We were programmed by God to be able to do things in danger, but sometimes the autistic brain perceives a threat that isn't a threat, and then the body goes into action as if that is a real threat. What can you encourage parents with that are dealing with this dysregulation pretty often, and especially in public? And I mean, every parent has dealt with it, right? Two-year-old in Target, and I mean, they have a meltdown and it's embarrassing and you're just like, ah. So we all know dysregulation if we're a parent. We've all navigated that to some degree, but I feel like from proximity to parents that I know, including a cousin of mine who has a autistic child and more on the medium to severe level, I think that's something that they've had to navigate graciously, the side looks, the judgment, what's going on, especially if it's an older child having a meltdown. What encouragement can you give to parents that are listening going, oh my goodness, this is my every day? How can you help them navigate that with grace and wisdom? Okay, I kind of have two thoughts on that, and I'm gonna give credit to my friend Faye who came up with this, and she says you have to know your Ds. What is disorganized thought disorder diagnosis, differences, delays, dysregulation versus disrespect and disobedience? And that is very, very tricky, and you're not gonna get it right all the time. Sometimes you're gonna consequence something, thinking it's disrespect and disobedience, but it might be the person's in dysregulation and they're not completely in control of all of the things that they're saying and doing. So knowing the Ds, and I find this really difficult for Christian families because most parents I know, we read the books, do the things, we wanna raise a godly kid, godly home, and you know all the godly things. And then when your child isn't acting right at church, and your child is dysregulated at church, there's also shame. So navigating the grocery store is actually easier than navigating church because when you're at church, there can also be the shame factor. You're not a good parent, you're not disciplining well, what's wrong with you? Is there sin in your life? You have to break a generational curse. There's all that stuff that comes on with it. And so being sure of what you know about yourself and your child and developing kind of a safe community and having a counselor or coach is really important because shame can really be, even more than fear of the future, the shame of my church community and their judgment on me, that can be, that is why families will leave the church and then they'll become isolated and not, and then this is one of the most unreached people groups in our American church today. And when you talk to parents about just a tool set of how to prepare for those moments, going to church, going to the grocery store or any other store, what are some general tips that you give parents to have in their back pocket as far as just a preparation, these tools that they can be using as they go into those environments in case this happens? Okay, number one is you knowing how to regulate yourself. That's good. Because in those situations, it's a good word for every parent, every parent needs to hear that. I gotta stay regulated. And especially with an autistic child, I call them emotional barometers. If you go up one degrees, they go up five to 10 degrees. And so they are very much relying on you to co-regulate with them. So knowing what my own triggers, knowing how I can stay regulated is number one. Then knowing my child well enough to know when to kind of use some breathing and regulation tactics and practicing when you're not in it. Because when you're in it, it's hard to do it correctly. So even like, let's do some breathing right now. Let's do some butterfly taps, which is a form of tapping for regulation. Let's do some jumping jacks. And so kind of practicing some of these things. How does your body feel when you feel tight? How does your body feel when you feel relaxed? And having those conversations when we're not in the moment, we practice some of these things to say, man, right now let's do some big breaths and some jumping jacks. And you do the jumping jacks in the parking lot or wherever you're at, you just do it. You do what is necessary. And so sometimes it's a dysregulation thing, but sometimes a use of distraction, it can be good too. Like, oh my goodness, that's a big, oh, look at that bird over there. Oh, what color is that bird? So sometimes a distraction can get their brain off of that record skip that's in their brain going on. A distraction might get them off key. Yeah, and Stephanie, I'd love to add to that. One of them that I've used that is really fun for not only toddlers, but in this case, just with the autistic brain, because they love, they're attracted to those facts about things that they absolutely love. So whether it's dinosaurs or dolphins or sharks or whatever it is, if you have some facts in your back pocket for those moments and you bring it out and go, hey, did you know, did you know that sharks have this many teeth? Or did you know that sharks can swim that far and that fast? And you bring a fact out, it does shift that brain to something else they're paying attention to. So I love that you brought that up. That's something that works very, very well in those situations for a lot of the kids. And sometimes with my daughter, because she's a little precocious and cheeky, I would state a fact wrong so she'd correct me. So what's happening when they're in dysregulation and they're in the amygdala and they're in the fight-fighter part of their brain, your front part of your brain, your executive function, your ability to understand consequences and all of that, it's off, it's not working. So when you start talking about facts, that starts shifting the brain from the emotional, the limbic system to the logic system, the verbal system. Yes, like you're in stick shift, right? You're shifting it into a different gear, yes. Did you ever intentionally get a fact wrong for Sydney so that she would correct you and like? Absolutely, you definitely have to be, you can't be a poser, as the kids say. You gotta know, like if they're into sharks or dinosaurs, hers was ancient mythology, Roman, Greco-Roman stuff. Like you have to know your stuff and you have to know your gods and goddesses or whatever they're into. And so sometimes I would mix up Greek and Roman ones to kind of like, I would pair, you know what, this one should marry that one. They can't, they're in the different universes, they're in different cultures, mom. And so just enough of that would kind of bring her out to be able to get to that piece of her brain that says, let's start talking about this. Let's calm down first. I think it's super important for parents, do not try to teach, instruct or discipline in the dysregulated state. That's really good. No brain learns in a dysregulated state. We've gotta be calm, we've gotta be out of the situation and then what I call hindsight learning. Hey, let's talk about what happened at the store today. What do you think we could do better? Now we're gonna do learning and discipleship later, but we've gotta do regulation first. And so many people wanna go in and teach the lesson, you're punished for this, this is what's gonna happen and that's gonna make the dysregulation even bigger. And you're doing a lot of teaching just by modeling and being a part of that regulating, co-regulating with your child, that is teaching. And again, I think what you just said is so helpful for every parent. You know, like just wait for the teaching moments until we're all regulated really well. You know, I thought that was really good. The verbal teaching, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You said something too about like the faith component of all of this and I'd love for you to unpack that a little bit more. Like did your experience with autism affect your faith, positively, negatively? Like how did you navigate that faith-wise? What was the component there? Oh wow, that's so big. I think at first, you know, when she got her diagnosis because our situation was people were telling me it's not that and I was like, no, I know what I'm seeing and we're going to push towards that. There was like a grief and relief, like I knew I was right and I followed my mother instinct. And then the grief of like, this is lifelong. Like this isn't, because trained as a clinician, you see the problem, you diagnose it, come up with a plan, treatment plan, move on, move the client out. And that is not how autism works. So I went through a phase, I talk about this in the book and I'm sorry if this is gonna trigger anyone or offend anyone, but this is where I was. That I had gone through a series of infertility and was finally pregnant and you know, all the teaching about children are a gift from the Lord. And at the moment, in my immature faith self and my immature mom self, I truly felt God had given me a broken gift. That he had given other people better gifts than he had given me. And it caused anger, it caused jadedness, it caused cynicism, mistrust in God. And so I had a little bit of a phase of like, I'm doing this on my own God. You know, following you has got me here where I'm at today. So I'm gonna take it from here for a little bit. And I kind of dissociated myself from church family. I was hurt, I was jaded, judgment and shame from the church community. It was not a safe place all the time. And then as the Lord said, get to know her, get to know the gift in her. See the gift that I have given you and I have placed her with you for such a time as this. And it was a very slow process of reminding myself that God is a good God and works all things for good and all the, who God says he is. Because it was difficult at times, some people at church would say things like, you know, you must have sin in your life or generational curses or God must have known you couldn't handle other kids. I mean, there's all these things that people said and that I had to realize that was not God, that was people of God, not representing God very well. And that's a hard thing to navigate sometimes. Thanks for being so vulnerable. It's really a beautiful gift. Yes. And I just can picture the parent that has a child with autism that is really consumed with wanting to teach all these things and giving that attention because it does take extra attention and extra energy to respond to the needs of that child. And if they have two, three, four, five other children, how does a parent navigate that in a way that balances out because they're still teaching and guiding and discipling these other kids? What are some tips that you would give that parent and some words of encouragement as they're trying to do this? A lot. Thankfully in two decades since I was going through this, there's so much more autism supports out there through autism societies and so many more networking opportunities. So don't try to go this alone. I'm a type A person and I like to do things alone, but this is not something you can do alone. This is a community, we need a village, we need support. So finding what that is for you and your family. And a sad statistic that I feel is really important to share is that only between nine and 12% of evangelical churches are equipped to handle children with needs of any kind, including autism. So that means a lot of families with kids with needs are not in the local body in the church because we can't find a place that will accept us, knows how to deal with our child or our teenager, or won't give a shame. Some of my clients call it the left foot of fellowship. So there's that, not having church community. So finding a church and a community that will support you. Grandparents, extended family, leaning in to understanding whatever the need is. For us, it was autism, but many families have different needs. And instead of offering advice, offering care, support, respite, support, encouragement is really, really helpful. And then doing the reading that you can. So then we've got the siblings you mentioned. And so I always said it's important sometimes for the sibling to have an autism-free zone. If that means getting to go with grandma or grandpa or a friend or someone to get to do something that they know they're gonna get to do that maybe my sibling goes, they might dysregulate. We might have to leave. We might not get to do the thing. Making sure that there are those spaces and some one-on-one time. And that gets so complicated the bigger your family is. And so don't hear shame around that at all. Maybe we take a couple of kids at a time, but that is a sure need that a sibling has. It's like, I wanna be seen and I don't want it to be autism or special needs all the time. I wanna be seen as a person and I wanna do what I wanna do and not have to worry about if my sibling's gonna melt down or not. And so there's just so many complicated pieces and then we won't get a chance to talk about today, but in 80% of the cases, one of the parents is on the spectrum too and they don't know it. And so they can dysregulate each other, the child and that parent, and then differences. So really the neurotypical parent ends up doing a lot of mental emotional load alone. And that was probably you, right? Yes. Because you had two in your family dealing with this. Can you speak to the marriage component too? Do you encourage parents just in navigating this to be counseled themselves in marriage counseling? Is that something that you suggest? Yes, absolutely. Whether it's coaching or counseling, just like your child has developmental stages, your marriage has developmental stages, right? Your stages are no children to one to elementary to teenager. All of these things change in your marriage and family as you're kind of aging and growing and you need different things and different supports. And so just knowing that as a marriage and our child has different developmental needs, that might mean our developmental needs are different, right? We might not empty nest as soon or retire as soon as our friends. We might have our child living with us longer. We may be supporting them longer. And sometimes parents, if they're not on the same page, that's gonna cause division and sometimes divorce or separation. A child is a child, whether they're autistic or neurotypical. And if I want what I want and I know who I can divide, how I can play the game, I'll play the game. So focusing on your marriage, being on the same page, both parents being involved, whatever the protocol is, is so important for the best outcomes of the child and your relationships. So good. Because there can be so much miscommunication in the marriage. I know it's actually our number one call here at Focus on the Family on our counseling line. And by the way, listeners, if you don't know that line, be sure to use that resource. It's 1-800-232-6459. And it's free. Or 1-800-A-FAMILY, and it's absolutely free. Yeah, it's amazing. And so if you wanna talk about issues in your marriage or with your children on various issues that they may be facing, including autism, call that line. But I know that with this type of situation, communication's already difficult, but that interpretation that has the fight, flight, or freeze already there, there can be a reactiveness already present or a shutting down, as you mentioned. And the other spouse, it feels hurt, it feels confused, doesn't know how to manage that reaction. And over time, I've seen this happen where a couple just survives together instead of teaming up. So we don't want that for you. We want you to have a thriving marriage, a thriving home. That's what we hope for you. Can you speak to the gift that autism can be to families too? I've noticed this in my cousin's family and the character of the other children in the family. I think they've navigated it well. And they've really, oh, just, their son has just been such a blessing to the other children in the character that it's developed and the leadership in some of these kids too. But can you speak to the gift that autism can be in a family? Right, and some of those gifts sometimes feel like a double-edged sword at some points. So like honesty, do not ask an autistic person how you look and address if you do not want to truly know. They do not know how to do a social lie most of the time. If you really want to know the truth, you really want some honest feedback, ask an autistic person. Also loyalty, they tend to be very loyal. When they attach to someone, they attach very deeply and very loyally. And so where that can be a problem is a breakup, a boyfriend, girlfriend breakup, maybe even being taken advantage of at a job because they love work so much and they're overworked and underpaid, but they're loyal to the organization and loyal to their boss. So that loyalty can be like a really big strength. They go deep with the people that they trust, but then it also makes them vulnerable sometimes to people who would not honor that loyalty. And then whatever they're interested in, whether it's trains or technology or math or engineering, and they have both intellectual capacity and that focus in that area, that is something usually they're gonna be very, very successful in and would make a great employee if they can get past the interview process. They will be a great employee, problem solve in different areas and usually see solutions to problems that other people can't see. Stephanie, your daughter has a video message for people out there with a diagnosis and we'd love to hear that. Kind of how I always saw our story was a story of hope that autism isn't this terrible and I'll be all like, final nail in the coffin on your family. But from the perspective of someone who is autistic, you always hear, you're not gonna amount to anything, you're weird, you're stupid, all just sorts of negativity from people on the outside. And it's very easy to fall into a self-fulfilling prophecy. So I guess what I'm hoping that those who are my age or maybe a little bit younger, or even if they're a little bit further down the road, that you don't have to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. You are not what other people say you are. How your autism defines you is up to you and only you. If you want to be a self-fulfilling prophecy and that's the road you choose, that's all on you. It is not on your diagnosis, it's on the actions that you make as a result of it. So that's something that I really tried to emphasize, particularly in like where I am now. Like I have my master's degree, I am living independently across the country. I have a kitten now. I am thriving out here. And I didn't fall into any of the traps that people said I was going into. So that's probably what I want the main takeaway to be is you are in control of your future and your destiny in terms of how people label you and what you define yourself as. You don't have to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. What a powerful message. Okay, so people on YouTube can see it, but I'm literally wiping away tears. Before you, Stephanie, even started, I was already like tears welling up. You must be so proud of her. Like, listen to her. Like, what are you feeling right now? Because I'm feeling proud of her. I don't even know your daughter, Sydney, but she's amazing. Like, speak to that, what you're feeling right now. It's beautiful. Oh, I think, you know, people in my head right now going through the stories of various IEP meetings or, you know, people saying, you know, she needs to be institutionalized. You know, you're not the right parent for her. You know, she's a curse or whatever. And I remember when she was kicked out of her third or fourth school, thinking like, can she live independently? You know, is she going to be able to live independently? And just watching each milestone, there was something that finally rose up in her, and it's in the book and it's cute. She kind of misapplied Philippians 4, 13 about I can do all things through God who gives me strength. She's like, I am going to do all things through God who gives me strength. You know, she doesn't go like, I'm gonna do this. And then she had to come to like, oh, yes, God. And then just seeing like the church that she is a part of in Omaha. I mean, I'm just like, I'm thinking about that pastor. I'm thinking about how he took her in, the amazing people that she knows who accepts her for who she is. So all those things are kind of coming into my mind right now. Where she was, and she's married now. That was a little bit older recording. She is older, married and employed. So it's awesome, and two cats. Two cats now. And a message, what a message of hope. I love that, Stephanie. And just the way it tugged at your mama's heart that you've got there. You love her tremendously. And we can see that. You have poured into her. Well done, well done. I was thinking the same thing. Well done, good and faithful parent. You've run the race. Good job. Oh, that was just so beautiful. I think there's only been a few times where I'm just like wiping away tears on this show. I can hear you over here, and I was watching her, and I'm going, wow. Yeah. Well, Stephanie, we're going to make your book, Embracing the Autism Spectrum, available to our listeners for a gift of any amount. And this is a substantial resource that outlines not only your story, but your daughter and your husband, and they've shared in the book from their perspectives as well. And so I'm delighted that our audience is going to get to receive that. Well, this conversation is for anyone who is wanting more support with autism or just neurodiversity. I mean, this can apply across the board on that. And who wants to improve their ability to serve and support this very unique set of wiring in the brain. And I think that's important for us to talk about. It's a unique wiring. You get to lean into that. This is something that you can tackle. And so this conversation is for anyone that is in the middle of that. And I hope it's been of encouragement to you. We hope it's helped you. Make sure you pass this link along to any of your friends, anyone that you know of that is in the midst of this and may need a word of encouragement or just listen to your daughter speak. If they just listen to that one piece, they would love it. But the rest of this conversation could be helpful to a friend or someone you know that is struggling with a child with autism. Absolutely, pass this around. It is a wonderful resource that Stephanie's just given us. And if we've ministered to you, would you let us know? Write us a review or send us a voicemail because we really enjoy engaging with you. We want this to be a real community, a real back and forth. So please write into us and our podcast family. If you're on YouTube, we want you to like this video, subscribe to this channel. We don't want you to miss any of the videos here. We wanna continue to have relevant conversations to you. So make sure in the comments, you leave some other ideas of some things we can be hitting on this show that we can be talking about and having these conversations on. Absolutely, that feedback is priceless. And speaking of voicemail, Ashley left us a great voicemail for our Q&A segment today. Hi, Danny. Hi, Rebecca. My name is Ashley. I just wanted to say thank you so much for your wonderful podcast. It's such an encouragement for me as a mother. And I also wanted to ask you for some input, some words of wisdom and godly advice. I have a sister who in the last 10 years or so has came out and said that she now is a transgender female to male. And it has made things very difficult for me and my family, especially now raising a kiddo. What kind of advice can you give me? Can you give other listeners who may be in the same boat as me? How do we show love even though we don't agree with this lifestyle? And how do we instill this into our children, how to love them and stand firm in our faith? Thank you. Have a wonderful, blessed day. What a great question and a very relevant question from Ashley and a difficult one to navigate. It's very difficult. You know, I think all of us as parents are going to have to address this issue at some point, whether we have a sister who is directly bringing it to the forefront or not. And we're all navigating that exact same question that Ashley is asking, how do we handle it? What is the spirit with which we handle it? And I think it is one, what comes to mind, and again, I wanna listen to the experts here, Stephanie and you, Danny, but it's just, it's grace and truth, right? We have to let our kids know what is true, what is biblical, what God asks of us. And it can get messy in there. Stephanie, any thoughts that you would add in there? So what's interesting is some research that I'm doing right now is there's a high crossover in later in life, transgenderism and autism. It's a huge crossover. So it has come to my families and so it is something that we have to talk about a lot. And I lean in on some information. I got this, the person's name is Mark Yarhouse, so it's not my own information, but he talks about the different lenses we can look at this through. We could stay in the religious lens of right and wrong. That's one lens. We could go to a pity compassion lens, but we might just pity that person or see them as less than us. And then the world and maybe that person wants a celebration lens. This is who I'm calling myself and you have to do it this way or you can't be in a relationship with me. And the encouragement was we stay in our truth of right and wrong and gender and biology and how God made man and woman. That's the truth. We stand in that truth. We do have compassion on this person because for those I have dealt with who are struggling with transgenderism, it's really painful and really difficult, complex, confusing. Yes, there's an agenda in our world, but the person going through it is really struggling. It's a mental health thing. So we gotta take that into consideration. And I might not be able to celebrate their new pronouns, but what else can I celebrate about them, their character and who they are and that relationship as we navigate this very tenderly because sometimes that person will make you choose. Do this my way, my pronouns or whatever, I'll cut you off. But until we get to that point, what can we do in the middle that keeps our truth intact, compassion that's not pity and celebration of still who they are? Yeah, what a great answer, Stephanie, I love it. And you're right, the newest research is showing that this is a more common reality within the autism community. And Ashley, I'm sure that you've had a relationship with your sister for many, many years and you know a lot about her and you wanna respond with gentleness. And that means strength under control. And as you bring your boundaries, that means you're kind of really what your home is about. You wanna say, I know you're struggling, I know you're in a place of wanting us to just adopt wherever you're at. What I need is grace on our end that our brains are having a hard time with this, right? This isn't something that we were expecting and really we're catching up to this reality in our children. I need to figure out how I'm gonna navigate this with my children to explain to them something that for them is gonna be a bit confusing. And I need you to understand that, that this is gonna be an imperfect thing between us. Still love you. And there may be times where I need you to understand that I'm putting a boundary because I'm needing to guide my kids in my home and guide them towards what I believe to be the truth and where I'm guiding them towards that developmental next stage for them. And if you're coming and you're wanting them to just adopt this thing that's confusing for them, that's gonna be hard to do. And I just need to be upfront with that. And then from there, if your sister is wanting to bring other people or other things into your home, I know that that happens, right? They say, I'm gonna bring this other person. They're all from that same community. You're gonna need to talk about the boundaries that are gonna be there and be upfront ahead of time so that it isn't in the middle of the scenario and the middle of the situation. This is a complex one. It's a tough one. It can be a very reactive and explosive one. And I love how you started. You talked about this with the autism side. I think this is with this as well. Be regulated yourself. Go in with compassion. Know that there's pain behind a lot of this. There's confusion behind it. And you may go towards a defensive mode. You don't need to go there. You just need to go to an assertive, loving, grace-filled mode, but that is clear and consistent in the boundaries you're putting. And Ashley, thank you so much for your question. We really appreciate it. And we're gonna send you as a gift as our way of saying thank you, Danny's wonderful book, Seven Traits of Effective Parenting. And if you have a question, if you're watching on YouTube or you're listening right now on wherever you listen to your podcasts, we do encourage you to like and subscribe. We'd love that. But also send us in your questions because we really want to be addressing what you're interested in, what your needs are, what you need to hear about, what you need wisdom about. Like that will influence our guests as well. So please do let us know and we'd love to send you his book if you send in a voicemail or a question as well. Excellent. And let me know what you think of it. If you, once you get it, let me know. Did you like it? Did you not? Only if you like it. Only if you like it, that's right. Only if you like it, then send. That's right. If you like it. And for our new listeners, we want you to be plugged in to all the resources here focused on the family. Not only parenting, we have marriage resources. We have resources on advocacy for life. We have so much here. But on the parenting side, know that there's a free assessment. It's the seven traits of effective parenting assessment. The link will be in the show notes. And if you're watching on YouTube, the link is below. We love that you are joining this community with us. And know that we have grandparenting resources as well. So let the grandparents know they can go through our age and stage resource alongside of you. That means they can get the weekly e-newsletters that are stage specific to the stage you're in. But they're in it with you as grandparents. And they can also get that annual newsletter that you can sign up for. And that is, you give us the month and year of each of your kids. And we will send you immediately content specific to those ages. And then every year around their birthday, you'll get the new resource. And stick around for another episode. We'll talk about you being able to be a sustainer and getting all those age and stage resources for free. I hope you tune in to another show. We'll talk about that. And to receive all the things that Danny was just talking about, you just have to log in and sign up and look for links in the show notes or in the show description if you're watching on YouTube. Well, Dr. Stephanie Holmes, thank you so much for being with us. You brought a wealth of wisdom. I'm sure it left people going, man, I want some more. I wanna hear more about this. Because this is a complex topic. It's difficult. It's challenging. You've given us some great tips and some great starting points as parents. Stephanie, it's been great having you on Practice Makes Perfect. Yes, thank you so much. Well, everybody, here's the moment you've been waiting for. Here's the crib to college update. Always a fun one. Parents everywhere are now doing away with the softer approach to child rearing that dominated Gen Z. And are now taking a harder line. Critics have blamed the gentle parenting approach for some of the problems that Gen Zers are having in adulthood. So instead of coddling a child's every emotional need and raising what they might call snowflakes, I have heard that term before, parents are now focusing on perseverance and responsibility through the tough things like picking up toys, doing chores, or finishing what they started. Tough love is back. But this generation of parents is labeling the method out feral, you're feral. This is a new one for me, Danny. I've never heard that one. So maybe I guess that the participation trophy is gone. This is not a thing anymore. It sounds that way, right? Yeah, I think there is a mess around and find out type of parenting, which I think is the same thing. It's just a much harder line of parenting. What's the mess around it? Well, it's just you do what you do. Here's the line. And if you cross it, you're gonna find out, right? If you touch that, you might get hurt or whatever. If you mess with my rules. Right, and it's more of an authoritarian approach compared to gentle parenting as it tends to go more towards a permissive side. But both of them are trying to figure out what authoritative parenting looks like. We talk about that with the seven traits of effective parenting. It's a balance of high levels of sensitivity and warmth, and then high levels of expectation and guidance. And that can be boundaries, limits, correction. And some parents wanna highlight one side more than the other. And this is one where we're swinging to the other side of saying, hey, we need to toughen up these kids. The other one is we need to really be sure that we're aware and attuned to the kids' emotions. When you look at the foundations of gentle parenting, when it started, it was about the sensitivity and warmth, but also correction and guidance. But people took it to the extreme and said, no, it's all about feelings and emotions. Let's just be gentle. And they forgot about this other part that had that demandingness to it, and saying, hey, kids, I expect you to do this, and I'm gonna be warm and understanding. On this one, they're trying to highlight more of the other side, where it's more about this expectation, demandingness of rules. You better follow me and have respect. But they're also saying that it's done with warmth and love for their kids. It's just one is highlighting more of the other side of that authoritative parenting. And it looks more like authoritarian and permissive parenting styles. And so as you think about this, think about how you as a parent can bring both to the highest level possible. And if you want a resource to help you with that, that's the Seven Traits of Effective Parenting. And again, it's free. You just need to give us your name, your email, then we'll send you the results. And you'll be thinking about each child at a time. It's not just general parenting. And so it's even more customized. It'll be a great tool for you. And we wanna thank you for watching on YouTube. Thank you for liking and subscribing to those of you who have. And thank you so much for listening. We know parents are busy. They are, they are. And so that you would choose to spend time with us, we're really, really grateful for that. Next week, we'll be talking about ideas to help your child embrace their faith with Tricia Goya and Leslie Nuttery. I'm looking forward to that. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. They've written a book called Faith That Sticks. And it's gonna take you through a journey of age-specific ways to lead your children towards a thriving faith in Christ. And that's what we're about on this show, leading our kids towards that thriving faith in Christ at each stage of their development. So it's gonna be a great conversation. You don't wanna miss it. And I'm just excited that you're part of the community here. I'm Dr. Danny Huerta. And I'm Rebekah St. James. Join us next time for more tips for transforming your parenting on Practice Makes Parents.