Co-Parenting with an Emotionally Unavailable Ex Will Break You—Unless You Learn This

You don't have a co-parenting problem. You have a pattern that you're still trying to survive in a relationship that already ended. I'm your host, Edna White, and this is Keeping It Real On Purpose, where we stop playing small, break patterns, and build what actually works. Today, I'm sitting down with Clover Taylor Johnston, faith-filled co-parenting coach, author, and founder of a co-parent accelerator transformation program. She helps women navigate divorce, co-parenting with the emotional unavailable partners, and healing from broken marriages without losing themselves in the process. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. I'm delighted to be here. Great, great. Let's get straight to it. Most women think the issue is the X, but it's deeper than that. Clover, what are women actually dealing with when they say co-parenting is hard? Okay, so I'm going to start by, let me define co-parenting. I'm coming from my own perspective. When we think of co-parenting, we actually think of co, which means shared, doing it together, as in cooperation. But for many of us, including myself, that's not how it worked. The pattern that evolved in my post-divorce relationship was one of check-in parenting. I'm just coming over to check in to see that the children are alive. I am just coming to check in to see if they went to school. But it was a check-in process, just to make sure no one can say, I don't know if they're alive. However, that is not what co-parenting is about. Co-parenting should be shared parenting. And actually, that is where the courts are going, except in the tender years, which is the under five age group. So shared parenting means if you get divorced when your kid is a year old, it means that both mom and dad have to learn to change diapers, they have to learn to make the formula, they have to learn to mash the food, they have to learn to administer the medication, and they have to learn all the nutritional and health needs of that child. And if that child is born or has developed any health issues, they have to have all the information because a child can get sick anywhere. And you need to know what your response, where to take them and all of that. So we have to transcend the traditional gender stereotype of dad as provider and mom as nurturer. That is something that just has to go through the window because none of us were born nurturers. I remember with my first child, I went and I bought an appropriate baby book that took me from pregnancy right up until age five. And I taught myself. And so really inform myself. And that's what most of us do, especially with our first kids, because there was no one to teach us. And even if you had a mom or a sister, you need first-hand information for yourself. So you can actually relate. I remember, for instance, something which showed up very early with my first child was cradle cap. And I said to someone, I would have been horrified had I not read about it in that baby book. I would have thought that she had leprosy or some illness that was fatal. But fortunately for me, I had prepared myself. So shared co-parenting now means that we have to prepare ourselves, mom and dad, for every age group and for every situation that's going to face us. And so there can be no division of labor and duties. So it's a redefinition of co-parenting. Yes, absolutely. I like that. Redefinition, because you're right, because we've adopted or piggybacked off the father and the mother role. And then we just added co-parenting to it. You come pick them up. I'll drop them off. That's co-parenting. I see that a lot. I see that a lot. Or you buy these clothes. You have them for the weekend. That's co-parenting. That's what they call it. And I'm like, I don't think that's the way it's supposed to be. Absolutely not. It's not supposed to be that way. There are emotional burdens that we need to share. So when that child gets really ill, you can't run back to mom and say, mom, take on this responsibility. You have to step up to the plate and take that child to the doctor, administer the medication. You may want a little backstory from the mother if it has happened before and you weren't aware and how to respond. But that's as far as it goes. You have to assume the full parenting responsibility. I see a lot that women through this are having like butting heads. And I see a lot of this because I work with a lot of children who come from the CPS world and butting heads and then arguments ensue. And then the children are left to kind of figure out this craziness within themselves. Why are women still trying to get emotional closure from someone who I think was never emotionally available to begin with? Why do they do that? I think it is natural is probably not the best word, but when our relationships break up, there are two default emotions that we pivot to. One is fear and one is shame. So we tend to want to chase the ghost for a while, because it's what's familiar to us. And we hang on to familiarity, even if the familiarity is not productive, even if it's not, it hasn't worked for us. But it's almost a natural response, because we can't see ourselves yet outside of that frame. So for a while, we're in the rear view, rather than the windscreen mode. It's just who we are as people. We hold on to safety, or what we perceive to be safety. And that's why many of us end up holding on to abuse as well for a while, because we are so used to it. Okay, go ahead. I'm sorry. How much goes back to what they tolerated during the marriage or the togetherness? Absolutely. That has to do with where you were emotionally in coping with the challenges of that marriage. So some people may have been near done with it. But some people may have been looking for change and hoping and maybe even start counseling. So it really comes down to the individual. But once the relationship ends, and I remember an older man who had a lot of respect for him who became a deacon in a church I knew. And he said to me when my second relationship ended, my second long term relationship, I was married before and I had a child. And he said to me, Clover, once a man stops having sex with you, go to the courts, and whatever assets are to be shared, you get it. Whatever value you are to get from it, get it. Because I was shocked, but he was absolutely correct. Because energy flows where your emotions go. And I have proven him wrong, right? I have proven him right. Because oftentimes, they have moved on emotionally to somebody else. We don't know if that is temporary, permanent or long term. But the fact is, emotional movements have taken place and it's away from you. So this doesn't just start after the divorce or this doesn't start, this has probably been happening, right? It's just a continuation. You're absolutely right. In many cases, this was already going on. Because in both of my relationships, I found that my ex-husband, he has started seeing someone. And in my second co-parenting relationship, he was in more than one. It's just that sometimes we are late to the party. And it's not our responsibility to be walking around snooping and looking for these. But when you are confronted, it is actually decision time. And so the decision you need to make as soon as difficult, because our emotions are still involved, but difficult as it is, the focus is now on your child or children. You need to know, you are no longer a lover, you are caregivers. So the requirements for that job and those duties are completely different from when you were lovers. And now you just have to be assessing, not just the relationship that you want to have with this man, but you're not going to look back. What kind of father was he? Was he a disapproving dad? For many of us, it's different. Did he have mental health issues? Was he a substance abusing dad? Was he a physically abusive dad? Was he an unreliable father or an absent father? And for many of us post-divorce, it's unreliable and absenteeism. Because many of them lose commitment, as I've said, because they have gone in a new emotional direction. And the first dysfunction that usually happens is inconsistent child support payments or withholding of child support payments, because that is one where they can knife you. And oftentimes, depending on the relationship you have had, some of them want to screw you over. I've seen this, I've had these interactions, I've read them in Facebook groups, and it is so painful. I remember one that has lived with me. So the guy, they're not divorced yet, recent separation, and he comes back to her and says, oh, he made a mistake. He shouldn't have gone with that person. And he wants to come back. And yes, he comes back for a few weeks and she says, it's all a lovey-dovey, like he never left. And guess what she found out? Okay. Oh, the child support payment, you know, I'm going to ask you to give me a few weeks. And so he hangs around with her for about two months, and then he disappears again and sends her a message. I'm going to Italy with my partner on holidays, and I won't be able to pay the child support. So that's how manipulative people can be. So much as our heartstrings are still tugging, and we're still in that emotional turmoil, we have to have one focus. How am I going to care for my children? What is the support that I expect? And you begin to pencil down your expenses, just as when you were in the relationship. What is the cost of everything? Childcare, if there is childcare, co-curricular activities, clothing, food, and then you create your budget and you pass it to him. And if it's one of these people who are, you know, obstreperous and volatile, use one of the family apps and send information because you have the family apps where you can plug in everything and you just share it. You don't have to have an interface because in the, especially in the early stages, things can get really volatile and fractious. And you want to stay away from that because you are emotionally coping and building your resolve to move forward. So you don't want to be engaging in any back and forth at all. But I know for me, and I'm sure for many of the listeners, that unavailable dad and that different seasons of absenteeism is what I faced. And so I had to resolve that. And very early that this is what I want for my children. This is the budget I know that I have. In my case, the child support took over five years from separation to divorce for any regularity. And when it came, it was a paltry sum, but at least I knew what I was getting, but I had to work with the budget I had and it was shoestring. And I was always choking financially. There was no doubt about that, but let's go back a little bit. Let's go back a little bit to the person that counseled you that if they are disconnected with you sexually, the energy's gone and go down to the courthouse. Shouldn't women that have an emotionally unavailable ex, should they still be trying to have a cooperative relationship with them still? You should. And this is the- Even if they're emotionally unavailable? This is the problem with parenting. You would never want it to be said that as a mom or dad, you deprive your children of access to their father. What I so said to myself is that the children will get old enough to decide for themselves whether that person availed themselves and made the effort to care for them. And ultimately that really should be the child's decision because the other side of that coin can come back to bite you. It's parental alienation. And you do not want your children to label you as a alienator from their dad or from their mom. And then it builds resentment and hatred. And I will say this in particular about girls, as I have three, and Kevin Lehman is a very important psychologist on the father-daughter relationship. Your daughters, even if they did not have a good relationship with their father when they are growing up, there's a hole in the heart there and it needs to be filled. And so if it's 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, they find him, they are going to bond. They are going to bond. And we will often question, he didn't show up. He didn't do this. He wasn't present. Why? There is a hole in the heart, psychologists tell you. I also, there's Dr. Meg Mika, she's a gynecologist and she has this exact observation. And she says, look, even if you have a fractured relationship, your daughter is always waiting for you to amend it. She's always willing to do it. Even if on the outside, it appears that there is a wall, but you can easily crack that wall and tear it down because there is the void waiting to be filled. And it is true. Okay. So let me, I want to go back because I want to stay here where the emotional part is, because this is some of the questions that the audience does ask. You said that you have to try your best, right? To get along with someone who's emotionally unavailable. Well, when does that compromise over? And are we teaching women to keep the peace at the expense of their own mental health? Well, that's a very significant question. It's a very, very significant question. What I would say, and I'm going by a lot of my own experience and what I've seen, you do the best that you can. So if you have an arrangement that you are to pick them up every other weekend, or you are to pick them up one day out of the week or whatever it is, the arrangement, take them to co-curricular activities, but an activity that involves contact. That's the important thing. And if, if, if he doesn't show up with regularity, then you know, you have to change the arrangement and the child, the child herself or himself will see that he is not showing up regularly. And therefore that frustration now can boil over and be even worse than the father, not, not showing up at all. Okay. You know, the irregularity versus the absenteeism. So a parent now has to choose the residential or the custodial parent now has to say, is this working for this child? Is it causing the child more stress? Because now you're thinking through the eyes of the child, not yourself. And so if it gets to the point where it's causing the child more stress, you have to take action. Okay. So there were times when my ex couldn't take the children to school or whatever his reasons were, and I just accepted it. And I made alternative arrangements because there is no way I'm going to work and I can have my kids waiting and not knowing if they will get to school because that now is emotional trauma for me. Yeah. Yeah. So ultimately the custodial parent has to watch the pattern and therefore make that decision, but it cannot be just an extended period of do what you want to do. It doesn't matter. No, it does not work because children thrive on consistency, especially in single parent households. So it cannot be an indefinite run of irresponsibility, absenteeism and irregularity in showing up. No, it cannot. Okay. So let's shift this a little bit. If the woman's out there listening right now and she's exhausted, what does she need to understand first? If you're exhausted and I, if a woman is out there listening to us right now and reflecting on the mental health of her, you know, of her, because she's exhausted, you know, it's mentally draining dealing with this person and in all that's happening, what do you tell her that she needs to understand right now? So here's what I'll tell her, build your household activities around what you can afford and the budget that the budget supplement that you get, create the activities that benefit your child, create a support system of friends and family who are your natural whoville. You're not going outside to look for anybody, but we have aunts, we have uncles, we have sisters, we have brothers, we have people with friends in our church community, because it is very important. I know this was important to me. People would show up. Can I do, can I take the kids to the movies? Oh, sure. You need anything at the pharmacy, especially if you have a child that struggles with maybe asthma and ongoing, you know, one of these ongoing illnesses. So make sure do never ever remain in isolation. Isolation means complete darkness and cut off. And it's just engendering shame. And there is no need for that. Create your own community of supporters. Your whoville, there are always people rooting for you. Always each and every one of us have our angel network. There's somebody looking out for us and sometimes even more people than we think. But oftentimes we have to, we have to ask. I remember in one of the occasions where I was actually struggling with getting kids to school and my, the eldest of my three children at the time, she had met one of her classmates and they became very close and they lived like a couple of minutes away from each other. So they became friends. She lived with her, her grandparents. And one day the grandfather said to me, Clover, I have to pass your house every morning. If the children are ready, let them wait at the gate. I can take them to school every morning for you. That was music to my ears because for a number of years, I never had to think about who was taking them to school. They just knew they had to be ready by a certain time and they had to stand at the gate. So oftentimes there are people looking out to support us, but we have to make our connection. Yes, exactly. Yeah. So what I hear you saying is an audience for you, you are not co-parenting from a place of partnership any longer. You're managing access. And once you accept that your decisions change around, you know, co-parenting all together. This is what our guest today Clover is talking about. So I want to be practical with my audience. I want everyone, every woman listened to sit in these questions right now. Because I got them from Clover. What she's talking about is what am I still expecting from this person that they have consistently shown me they cannot give. That's a question for yourself. Where am I over explaining, over negotiating or over compensating? And what would co-parenting look like if I operated from peace instead of permission? So that's the process for us, right? So Clover, walk the audience through healthy co-parenting, how it actually looks like when other person is emotionally available, what it looks like. Right. So healthy co-parenting is shared co-parenting. Each parent knows when it is their parenting time. There's an agreed pickup time. Yes, we have to be flexible. There's an agreed pickup time. So is it every Thursday? Is it every Friday? Is it after school? Are the kids picked up from school? Are they picked up from the residential home? All of that would be agreed. The number of days that they go, that would also be agreed. When they go to the other parent's house, you are completely detached from the responsibilities as well as what goes on in that household. Because I have heard, there's a woman who told me that when she drops off her children, she goes into the father's house and tidies it up because she does not think it meets the standard of her home. Do not. Do not. You are crossing boundaries. Your responsibility is your home and what happens in your home with your children. And that's the big mistake a lot of women, I see a lot of women make is stepping into caring about what they're doing there. Because it's a co-parenting, like you said, a situation. As long as they're safe people for your children, you're not invading their privacy. You're not calling them on check time, interrogating them, what are you guys doing? You're not doing all of that. It's like you have to trust the process. And if anything happens, I'm sure the children would say something, but we go overboard. Some of the women go overboard. Let me just say that, they do. Like you're saying. Yes, some of them do go overboard and they cross boundaries and this can also create a backlash, especially when you're the new partner. And even if the new partner is not living in the house, because inevitably it is going to filter back to them. And what is also important is that all medical records must be shared with your co-parent. So they do not have to call you for anything. If there is a problem or if the child needs medication or needs to go to the hospital, all of that needs to be shared. Also the entire school calendar that you have for every semester must be shared. Their co-curricular activities as well, because what you're doing, you are trying to minimize the back and forth because each and every one of us has a different communication pattern with the co-parent. Some are on an even keel, but many are not. So you do not want to be having a back and forth. You also do not know what's happening in the other person's life. So be like the school. The school sends out at the beginning of every semester, it sends out a schedule. You electronically forward that schedule or you scan it and you send it. Information about doctors, medication, you do the same. Information about co-curricular activities, you do the same. And if you are somebody who plans ahead, maybe travel, a summer break, you let that parent know ahead of time that you have blocked out two weeks or one week during the summer. Otherwise the arrangements for summertime is fluid and you decide on how many days at Christmas time and how many days at Easter time. But it is supplying the information ahead of time so that the other person knows what is happening in your child's life and they can plan around it. And if they need to ask for flexibility, they can request it before the appointed time to minimize tension. So what I'm hearing from you that when you replace structure, emotions, you replace it with structure and the boundaries make sure you set things up. And clarity replaces confusion. So you're just laying it all out. It just makes so much sense. No one has ever taught that. We go to court and we're sitting with the stuff and we're taught it's over, it's over. But we're not taught what's left with the residual that we have to now plan, which makes so much sense. Structure, boundaries, and clarity. Oh my gosh, how simple. And it's very simple to do. Very simple to do. It is very simple to do. And you take the burden off of yourself because you have already decided, you have already emailed it, or you have sent it through your family app, whatever it is, it is done. There's no burden on you now to supply anything else. And if the co-parent has any issues or any questions, they can now send you an email in response. But you don't have to be texting back and forth because that's where the annoyance and the buildup, right? Right, exactly. So clear communication is absolutely important and putting information on the other person's plate ahead of time. That makes sense. A lot of women feel guilty when they start pulling back, like you're saying, no texting and things like that. What do you say to that? Here's what I'll say. We are no longer lovers. We are caregivers and I know it's hard. However, a place of peace is a place of power. And there is nothing you want more than peace at this stage of your life because you cannot nurture children from a place of confusion and emotional turmoil because it spills over to them and they feel the chaos. So you want to create a kind of peace that allows you to plan your own professional life and also your own recreational life because we have to be refilling the cup. And that is so important. So when you send over the schedule for your children, you can now identify little breaks that you can now take to refill your cup. Maybe it's a case where when the kids are with you, you can't go to the gym, but okay, they're going to be away for this long weekend. Oh, I can go to the gym for the next three days or I haven't been to the spa in months. So maybe I can go to the spa and do a body massage or do a facial. And these things help us to cope. It's care. It's personal care of ourselves. And we have to show ourselves compassion for what we are going through. And we constantly have to administer self-care and compassion to ourselves. It's very important in rebuilding who we are and remaining strong and resilient. Yes. That's beautiful. I'm not going to touch that because that was perfect. Clover, how can the audience find you and talk to you? I know I'm going to have all the information in this video in the comments section, but I want you to say how they can reach out to you. Sure. So my email is johnston.clover at gmail.com. I am on Instagram as co-parenting coach Clover. So you can message me there. And I'm also on Facebook as Clover Taylor Johnston. Awesome. Awesome. Now audience, you know, this is real what's been said. This is not about just co-parenting. It's about identity after the relationship. That's what was said. So you heard the story. Now let's talk about it. Let's not talk about it only. Let's do it. If you're tired of repeating the same emotional patterns in your relationships, your co-parenting and your life, all you need to do is reach out to my co-host today, who's Clover Johnston. Reach out to her or reach out to me and figure it out. You know, reset your direction and build something that actually works for you. Please like and share this video and don't forget to stay tuned to keeping it real on purpose. This is your host Edna White and my guest Clover Johnston saying goodbye for now.