Michael Keaton, Emma Stone, Edward Norton, and Zach Galifianakis on Birdman

So you'd come in and you'd say one or two lines and if you messed up, you had ruined the scene for the other actor and had to go back to the beginning, which I did, I think, more than once. Oh, yeah. No. That's kind of like my trademark, so. Everybody really looks forward to it. Come in and kill, literally. That's right. Just... Wipe it out. Ruin the day. Pretty nice. Feels like opening night or something. Welcome to this amazing group of actors. I'm sure that... Well, you heard my intros beforehand, so I won't repeat it. I'm going to start off with a few questions that really are for... Can you hear me okay? A few questions for the entire group and then a few specifically geared towards individuals. As I'm sure you all noticed, the camera of Emanuel Lubecki moves through this movie with a lyrical virtuosity. It almost seems to incarnate Riggins' desire and ability to fly. But as I said before the film, that poses all kinds of challenges for actors who have to do a whole lot of stuff within one camera movement. I was wondering if we could talk a little about that. I'll start with Michael Keaton and move through each of you. What were the particular challenges? Was there a scene or two where you had to completely redo what normally would have been your approach to acting a scene, simply because of the visual style that was an integral part of this story? Well, I don't think there was any redoing... I don't want to speak for everyone else, but I don't think there was any redoing because he was... Alejandro was pretty clear about how this was going to work and what the process was going to be. So I would guess that they all felt like I did, which was, oh, this is going to be really interesting. There was two things. This is pretty interesting, good luck. And also, this is pretty interesting, wow, I wonder if I can do this. So I don't think it was a case of, well, now I'm going to have to alter everything I normally do. I think it was, okay, well, I'm just going to have to adjust to that. And then it becomes fun, actually, and to see if you can pull it off. And the memorizing of sometimes 15 pages of a scene as opposed to individual stuff, is that harder or is that just more like theater? It's hard. Well, it's, I think, probably harder in that it's very easy to get lazy and that part of your brain starts to shut down and you've got to reactivate it. So only harder in that you had to say to yourself, okay, well, I'm going to do my work here. And then once you do it, you remember that's what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to know your lines. It really gets pretty fundamental. And for Emma Stone, I mean, to have the camera essentially almost as a co-star with you as something that you're moving with, any particular scene that was challenging or extremely gratifying precisely because of that camera situation? I think it was all challenging and gratifying because of that additional part. I mean, I think the only time it really got scary was when you were in the end of a scene that you hadn't been in kind of the whole portion before it. So you would come in and you would say one or two lines. And if you messed up, you had ruined the scene for the other actor and had to go back to the beginning, which I did, I think, more than once. Oh, yeah. No, that's kind of like my trademark. So everybody really looks forward to that. Come in and kill, literally. Just ruin the day. So I think that that's where it was scary, you know, less so if you were throughout the scene because it felt like you had, you know, opportunities to go back and all of that. But no, I mean, the whole thing became much more exhilarating because there was no sitting and waiting and coverage and all of the other pieces that you're used to when you're making a movie. You're used to kind of sitting, hurry up, hurrying up and waiting a lot. And there was none of that. There was not a lot of waiting around. Once it was happening, it was going and it took all day or days. The adrenaline kept pumping, to use a word that you invoke in the film. And for Zach Galifianakis? I didn't make any mistakes. And, you know, doing this press for this week on this film, I learned just yesterday that this movie took 30 days to make. So the way we shot, I think, expedited the process in a very amazing way because that movie can take up to three to four months. And I think if traditional coverage had, this movie had been done in traditional coverage, it probably would have taken that long. But yeah, it was exhilarating, as Emma said. It was this kind of thing where, OK, the baton's coming. I'm out of shape, or am I in shape? So it's, you know, it was it was fun to do. It was very kind of it was a rush. And each scene seemed like a tiny play itself. I think it's true. He never made a mistake. There was a little thing Edward and I and some of the other actors kept backstage. It was kind of a scorecard, if you will. And it was fascinating how we really never, Ed and I would go, he still hasn't fucked up. We still, to this day, I can't figure out how he did it. And did you know about the scorecard? And maybe that kept you at a higher level? I'm joking. OK, it's a joke. I liked it enormously. I thought, you know, my first reaction was, wait, I just want to be clear. Once you say action, no one can interrupt me for the next 15 minutes. I mean, no, it was it was, you know, on the one hand, you know, we all we all got to this theater and made our way onto stage and had a few conversations on the way without anybody cutting and resetting the lights. It's like it's not like it's not it's not like moving through life, having complex interactions and and getting there should be that much more difficult because we're doing it all the time. I think it was more that it was more that I think the person, the person taking the real risk with the whole thing was Alejandro, not really us, because if joking aside, if we if something botched it, if the camera hit the corner and and jumped, if if one of us, if one of us flubbed something in a way that wasn't recoverable, you go back just to get I didn't, but go ahead. One of us want to point out, I did, but I did it on purpose. You go back to it again. But but what but every time he every time he completed one of these, you know, chunks that that were of all of pretty substantial length and sort of put a pin in one and said, I think we've we've got something pretty magic. Alejandro was was essentially throwing away the normal insurance package that you're essentially building when you make a film, because he was throwing away all his future optionality to do anything manipulative with that entire section of the film. And that that is a very, very nervy, nervy thing to do. For anyone, I think, who understands sort of how much the editing process is generally a process of discovery and salvage and manipulation and reinvention even. So I think that he he was he was he put himself pretty far out on a limb. And we we I think we're trying to just deliver as much unpredictable magic and sense of spontaneity and inspiration within each of each of these chunks as possible. But but it was I do think it was a very liberating way to work. It's very like to to Zack's point. You know, you there's an incredible efficiency in it once you've prepared and once you've come up with these things, it you I found myself at times going, why do we not do a version of this more often? Because there was such elegance. There was such an elegance to that approach. The the way that you the way that it forced you to stop sort of going into these rote mechanisms where a conversation means you go here and then you go here and then you go here. It it it created visual poetry. It create it created much more fluid moments for all of us with each other. And and I guess that the thing is that the answer to that is that it's it you can't take for granted how how virtuosic the director and the DP have to be to pull something like that off without all the without all the air going out of it, all the dramatic tension, all the fluidity. And I do think watching I think for all of us watching those two guys Chivo and Alejandro kind of put heads together and sort out how this was going to work without storyboards, without previz or any of that stuff. Just sort of imagining these. It was really I mean, it really was like watching two guys at the absolute peak of their powers taking a big swing and connecting day after day after day, which was really very, very special. It was very, very special. You are aware that Alejandro is not here, right? Well, actually. Oh, what a waste. No, no, no. I just want to be clear. He's on a plane. So but it's precisely because Alejandro is on a plane. He's shooting a new film with Leonardo DiCaprio called The Revenant and had to leave New York today. Right. But he told me what he wanted me to say. And I also and I did some homework, too, where because I've known him for about 15 years and he actually said something that I figured I might as well share, because it's not just that he wanted to do some sort of self-conscious virtuosity, which would show how incredibly talented they are. He said, I didn't want to create reality through fragmentation, but from a linear or monolithic reality. Basically, the way we live our lives, no cuts. We just open our eyes and there we go, floating in a continuous steadicam all day. The challenge is there is no room to improvise. The writing, design, blocking rehearsals, plus all the technical aspects, lighting, camera movements have to be conceived, thought out, prepared in advance in order to flow with naturalness, truth and honesty. It's a process that demands the total awareness of the actors. It possesses the fear and adrenaline of the moment. You can't fake it. And if Alejandro were on this stage, I wouldn't bother quoting him. But it seems to me that there's a real desire to also make something more authentic by using that kind of camera strategy, authentic, not just in terms of the relationships between actors in space, but authentic in terms of how we see and move, which not all of us are lucky enough to be steadicam. I get a lot of fragmentation in my daily life, but I appreciate this extraordinary effort. Similarly, this is a movie that doesn't have a traditional movie soundtrack. Rather, it's that drum, the drums of Antonio Sanchez that he created. You hear it from beginning to end. Essentially, I was curious whether you actually heard that music while you were on set, whether it was part of the shoot or whether it was added afterwards. Afterwards, only a couple of times that you saw him when you saw the drummer in space. Yeah. OK. And because you were shooting primarily in one space, the St. James Theatre, could you talk a little bit about whether the rehearsal was the was the rehearsal process primarily in that theatre space or how long did you get to rehearse prior? Because it seems to me that without a lot of rehearsal, this could never be pulled off. Yeah, you can't do it without rehearsal. Most of it, I think, was done in Los Angeles, which is an unbelievable undertaking because what they did was they meticulously measured, literally measured the distances. They measured the space. We only had access to the theatre for a small window of time. And so they measured out everything. And then you rehearse in a one dimension on a soundstage in Los Angeles and then some here. And they and this was important for the camera operators, for Chivo, Emmanuel Lubezki, the cinematographer, and Alejandro and all of us. And that and also during that during that time, it wasn't just the physicality of the rehearsal was you were working on the character and discussing the script and your character, et cetera, which I that was astounding to me, because when we showed up and they built the set that was in our heads, there was no for me. Anyway, there was no wow, it looks exact. You were just there. The next thing I know, I was there and I kind of weirdly been there. I mean, it was astounding. And he said the designer doesn't probably get enough notice or attention. And it made it a whole lot easier. You know, there was exactly I have all these scenes. They were sitting there. We're talking down downstairs in the hallways of the dresser near the dressing rooms. And I don't know, it was like being being there. But you can't make the movie without literally can't make it. It's not possible. So you had a couple of weeks altogether of rehearsal. It was more than a month, right? There was like a couple of weeks where all of the physical spacing was just taped out on the floor of soundstages. Sometimes they used some black scrims. Yeah, like that. And then and then I guess we had a couple of weeks here in New York. But to be clear, I think people I mean, not to pick it apart or reveal too much, but but but everything from the wings of the theater down into the belly was the St. James underbelly was replicated on the stages at Coffin Astoria. So good job. I was positive I was in the theater. But of course, as I said before the movie, I mean, this is very much a riff on illusion and allusion. And each layer that we think we're in in the movie, there's always suddenly the revelation that there is another possible layer, not only of action, but of emotion. And that's one of the things that makes it so exciting. Did you shoot in sequence? No, no, because I it always I sense that because the camera kept following that it might have been shot at the beginning of the film to the end the way that it wasn't shot that way. OK. And especially because Edward Norton is a theater actor, too. When you were doing these scenes, actually for the camera, did it sometimes feel to you more like you were doing a theater scene because of the unity of time and space or not? Not really. I I'm not really. I it was like making a it was like making a movie in a very different way. But it never I mean, I think, you know, I'm sure you feel the same way, like doing doing comedy, doing anything, there's a live audience. That's just an entirely different proposition. The exchange of energy. The fact that you whenever you begin that, whatever you're doing, you're carrying it through to the end from the time you walk on the time you walk off, it's all it's with you. And there's an audience there. Those are the two defining aspects of the theater experience for me. And none of that was the case with this. It just was and and it was still the same intimacy with the camera. It was still the same collaboration with the crew. It just was it just was different. It was just a different sort of film. And may I ask approximately how many takes you had to do? Because everything seems so seamless and unified. But I'm guessing that each of these 10 or 15 minute takes, you didn't do it only once. Whether Zach was involved. I was involved one. I don't remember the average of takes. I mean, sometimes it seemed like it was only three. Right. Yeah, I thought I think it I don't remember either. It varied pretty wildly. But in general, depending on the, you know, I mean, I don't think we should unpack it too much because I think it's I think it's more interesting for people to wonder where the pieces and stitches are. But OK, but but I think but I but the but the pieces, the pieces are all substantial, but they do vary pretty wildly in dimension. And that affected how long it took to get each one. There were some there are some that are epically. Yeah, there are some that are authentically epically long. And where I would say one of the things that was really impressive and delightful to me is that places that I think people who make movies for a living will assume that that there is a handoff that represents a digital stitch or something like that is not. And where there's the old the old fashioned lo-fi quick changes and prop whipping out, you know, there's there's a lot of really lo-fi stuff going on that's capacitating some pretty really, really long sequences. And that was that was kind of neat. And the most important thing is that you tell this solid. Hopefully, you know, engaging story in a way that in a way, how it's done is not an afterthought, but it's odd. It doesn't work if you don't shoot it like this, but not so as you notice it kind of, you know. Now, I know that Alejandro is a cinephile. He really knows movie history. You know, I've talked about it occasionally. And I was wondering, especially because Raymond Carver is the source not only for the play that is mounted in the film, but for another movie, Robert Altman's The Player, which also happens to be this wonderful exercise of long takes where the first shot lasts about 10 minutes and it literally follows at least 20, 25 characters on a studio lot. I'm wondering whether Alejandro either screened for the cast or asked you to watch any particular movies to get you into a tonality for this one. No. OK, because at the Telluride Film Festival, he was sorry. He was on a panel that I moderated, and he actually said specifically, he invoked, and I'll share this with all of you. He said the ghosts of Robert Altman, Max Ophuls, Billy Wilder and Sidney Lumet are floating through the Birdman dressing room. I think Chivo, Chivo. I know Chivo was looking at a lot of those Russian films like Cranes Are Flying and Russian Ark. Yeah, Russian, Russian Ark more recently. But Cranes Are Flying and I Am Cuba, which have those pretty legendary and still hard to figure out shots from those Russian guys in the 60s. Those are I know he was I know he was taking some inspiration from those. Mostly, he said to me, look, you're lucky to be in a film. Don't watch anything because I just **** you up even more. Just just show up and do what I tell you to do. And that's kind of how it worked for me. On the other hand, because he chose as the costume designer Albert Wolski, oh, man, among whose credits is all that jazz. Yeah. You know, I couldn't help but feel that somehow that film was in the back of his head. I didn't know to what extent he might have mentioned it to me or Cassavetes. I mean, something like Opening Night. That's another amazing movie about acting and about the very discomforting overlaps between what you do on a stage and what you do backstage. By the way, Children of Men. We showed a clip when Clive Owen was the guest here a few months ago. Already, Emmanuel Lubezki with that film was doing some amazing long take stuff. We showed the clip with Julianne Moore and Clive Owen in a car where so many things are taking place on a road that ends in violence. And any other cinematographer and director probably would have shot it in a much more, you know, montage oriented way. But Alfonso Cuaron in that case and Emmanuel Lubezki did it that way. And then I think it leads very much into here. We're talking a bit about Inaritu. I'm curious, especially because many people in this audience have recently seen Magic in the Moonlight, which stars Emma Stone. Is it very different working with someone like Woody Allen, who is a much more, I think, no, verbally oriented director? I mean, somebody for whom the dialogue is probably key to certain developments. And Inaritu, who seems to have a more visual sense of how the story is to be told. It's I mean, it could not be more different. Working with those two directors. And it was you know, I went straight to do Magic in the Moonlight after Birdman. And but I will say something that they have in common is they both like those long takes. And so you show up. I mean, with Woody, there's absolutely no rehearsal. There's no read through. There's no. And you just show up and he goes, we're going to do it in one. And then he goes and sits behind the monitor and you go, OK. And then you have a, you know, a six page scene in one take. So there's a you're a little more shot out of a cannon and there's less discussion. But but I felt I felt more prepared for that because of something like Birdman. I mean, I felt like I could go in and but I mean, no, their personalities could not be more different. Each is great in his own way, and it takes all kinds to make movies. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's too it's too incredibly, you know, genius and distinct styles. But it's but it's so interesting to such very different people. And also, I mean, I find it fascinating that after making such international films as Babel, United makes a really New York film, which is what Woody Allen has often done prior to this period of internationalism. They've gone in opposite directions in a way. And I mentioned to you backstage, I happened to watch Night Shift last night, which was the first big movie for Michael Keaton. I applaud. I was actually surprised at how much I appreciated it. And one of the things. No, I mean, hey, you know, I mean, I I'm honest. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Professor Innsbruck here. I teach film at Columbia. You dumb clown. I know. I just kind of assumed it would be fun. And I found it to be more than fun. And your performance was amazing. I feel like I need a pipe right now. But one of the things I couldn't help but notice is Times Square. Yeah. As it was shot in Night Shift, because that was 1982 when Times Square was marked by prostitutes, pimps and a certain, shall we say, grungier reality compared to the Times Square in which your character runs out at night, which leads me to the question. I couldn't help but wonder. Was it staged with extras as you were running out in your underwear or was that perhaps a real crowd? Combo, because, you know, in practical terms, you couldn't do it either way. And so it was, you know, and this is the great thing about this guy. He's just well, he's just, you know, unbelievable. But he can balance that where you had to deal with what you had. So he's, you know, meticulous. And we had the a certain amount of extras and then you can only control that up to a point, which is actually perfect, you know, for the scene. And frankly, you're shooting in Times Square in New York and some guy runs through in his underwear. People don't really take that much. You know, in fact, here's a here's a great story. There's this guy toward the end of the night. One of the crew guys, I'll tell you this story, one of the crew guys goes, hey, Mike, come here. And I go over and he goes, there's some guy standing with a guy who's like on his way to like either coming home from work or going to work or going to get high or going to wherever he was going to. Just like kind of some dude just walking by. And the guy standing there, he says, show him. This guy rolls up his sleeves up to here and had this unbelievably beautiful meticulous tattoo starting here all the way down to his forearm of Beetlejuice. Me, because I'm a dope and I'm easily impressed, I guess I go because it was really, really good. And I went, oh, my God. And because, you know, it's on flesh, so it could go it could go wrong. It was unbelievably it was cute. It looked exactly like the character. And I'm going, holy moly, this is tremendous. And I'm looking at the wing and I'm saying, why don't you do that? I'm asking this question. I'm really knocked out by this thing. The guy's kind of standing there going, nothing, just nothing. And then I go, I ask him, he looks at the guy, goes, is that it? And he goes, yeah. And he rolls down his sleeves and leaves. Never even recognized who I was. I swear to God, I did not care. It's the greatest. Oh, wow. Hey, I have a question for Zach Galifianakis, because I'm sure most of us here are more familiar with your comic persona. I mean, films like The Hangover. But I also, as I mentioned to you, really appreciated your work in a small independent film. It's kind of an unlikely story. And I'm not the only one. And my Aunt Louise, my Aunt Louise. You don't have to clap every time. OK, so you also had a small part in Into the Wild, not a comedy directed by Sean Penn. And I was curious, were you particularly desirous to be in this film, though your character is not what I would call very comic, except for the line we're talking about the actor, Ralph, who has a thing for nuns with diapers. I mean, basically, you play a more straightforward dramatic character. Are you trying I mean, do you want to have a balance now in your career where you do not just the comic films, but the dramatic also? I think I think, you know, comedians can tend to get paint themselves into a corner or get typecast. And Alejandro kind of asked me if I could if I wanted to do it. And I really liked his movies. And you don't get a lot. I don't get a lot of chances to do that kind of thing. So but yeah, I would like to. You know, you want to kind of grow and change and expand. And there's a certain amount of time where you can do a certain amount of tricks and then you have to kind of move on to other things. So, yeah, I mean, I don't know if I'll be able to keep doing this kind of. I mean, this is like this kind of movie. I don't think they come around that often. But yeah, I think I have a chip on my shoulder a bit about like maybe trying to do more dramatic stuff. I think a lot of comedians do in a weird way. Be honest. Yeah, I can understand that. But actually, I mean, even in terms of your career, you started out with the comedy, you know, Light Shift, Mr. Mom, but then Clean and Sober was a very important development, I think, in your career so that it was obvious you had the dramatic chops, too, and not just the comic ones. This is a film that in a way calls upon absolutely at least two layers, comic and dramatic. But I think that's just touching the scratching the surface because obviously you have played Batman and Batman Returns. And this is about a former superhero in movies. To what extent do you think that Alejandro and his collaborators were writing the screenplay directly for you? And how much of a personal connection do you feel to the story of a movie actor who's trying to make a meaningful comeback? As of part one, I I apparently he was and I didn't know because frankly, when he and I discussed it, I was working on a film and I flew back to have this meeting with him or dinner with him. And we sat and talked. And I mean, unless I can't remember something, which is highly possible because we had a couple of bottles of wine, but I don't I don't remember the discussion coming up. I'm sure it did at some point. Somebody must have said something like, well, there's the obvious thing. And then during it, we maybe discussed it. I don't I don't really know. So what I've learned since then is he was, in fact, homing in on me. And but if I was him and I'm sure he did a little of this, too, I would have been thinking about, you know, ten guys and then I'd get it down to seven and then I go up to eight and then I get it out of four. That's what I would have done. And I'm sure there were others he was thinking about. Otherwise, if you don't, if it doesn't work out, if I say, you know, I just had a stroke, so I can't really do it or I'm unavailable. You know, he he would have said, oh, boy, no, I'm stuck. So there was that. And then for me personally, in terms of I saw his movies, so it took me maybe 14 seconds to decide to do it. You know what I mean? I said, well, there's this issue. Honestly, I don't think it was for me. It was the easiest thing to jump over because I'm kind of lazy, probably. And I thought, man, if I were to really deal with that, that's going to mislead me. And I have to go back and just do things the way I always do them, just approach things like I approach them, you know. And and these guys will probably understand this. And actors, ironically, will understand this. It would have been. I keep saying that I didn't I didn't. It's the character I related to least, and that might be an exaggeration, but honestly, I just don't relate to the guy all that much. But there's the reality, you know, there's the reality of, you know, I play Batman and he played he was, you know, significant Berman. And also I'm an actor and he's an actor. So you're a moron if you don't accept that, address that. But really, that's that's not the work. You know, that's not that's that's not the work that would have tied me up and made me waste a whole lot of energy, you know. So and I kind of like this guy is pathetic and needy as he is. You know, he's noble, too. You know, he's very courageous to to do what he does, I think. In fact, I can't remember if it was Zach or Edward, but there was a line, pardon me, in the script for a long, long time where it literally said, you know, he used to be Batman. And I thought, well, it's kind of like a joke or they made a mistake or something. And it's going on and we're doing rehearsal after rehearsal and then we're running it. It's still in there. And I'm thinking, eventually you can't say that. This is like not going to work. And I think you and I looked at one another and went, all right. And I said, hey, you know, Alejandro, don't you think that's going to kind of shift the focus of the movie if you actually use the word Batman? He goes, where? And I go, well, right here in the script. He goes, oh, yeah, we can't say that. So so he said, no, no, we have to say Birdman. So there you know, there was that there was that typo. Yeah, yeah. And the movie was going to be called Batman. So I had to deal with that. That's right. It's actually him trying to find a way to do another Batman. I think I think Alejandro has been pretty clear, though, in saying that the the superficial connections were the least of his interest in. I mean, I think he's he's said it over and over again, that the thing that he was most. Most focused on was what you pointed out, which is the balance of the balance of how do you how do you find someone who can who can portray in a really unvarnished way a guy who's flushed a lot of the best things in his life because of his ego and his need and his sort of skewed priorities, perhaps, and yet still be appealing. And I think he was I think I mean, Alejandro's, I think, been pretty abundantly clear that the the the you know, the obvious was not really the the root of his interest, don't you feel? There's a magnificent scene for me where Regan essentially destroys his dressing room with a kind of telekinetic, ferocious energy that actually reminded me of Fight Club. Bizarrely, you know, maybe because you're in the film, that was one of the reasons in terms of almost a self that's divided. You know, in other words, the actor that we're watching, Regan, also has this alter ego whose voice he hears and actually whose image manifests itself. And it even made me wonder whether Alejandro cast you, Edward, not just because you're such a gifted actor, but because you've played that duality so well in Primal Fear, as well as Fight Club. Did he ever talk to you guys about the kind of dual level of the characters or or did you even feel it yourself? I'm not not not in a. No, no, no. I mean, I don't I don't think that I think it's intrinsic to the way I don't think Alejandro, if you look at his films, he just doesn't deal in two dimensions. He doesn't even really deal in three dimensions. He's I don't say this facetiously. I think almost all of Alejandro's films deal in at least four dimensions because they're in the physical world. But then he really messes with the temporal dimension, too. He he he messes around with time and the way that film as a medium can represent time. And and and on a character level, it would be it would have stunned me if he was mucking around in characters who were less than multidimensional. And I don't think any of them. I don't think I don't think any of the characters we played weren't multidimensional right on the page. So it didn't even really need a lot of discussion, to be honest. It was it was intrinsic to not only the way it was written, but the way he works. And I think to me, what was more interesting was I think that for the rest of us, Mike, the way I perceived it, Michael's Riggins journey is that, you know, you you're sort of drawn to him in the beginning because of his admirable qualities and because of the risk he's taking. And almost everybody else, his bitchy daughter, his, you know, nagging producer, his prima donna star, all have initial presentations that in some sense make them make them seem like they're kind of his furies. You know, they're they're they're they're creating friction for him. But as the film goes, each of them, you get a glimpse into what's behind their their facade. And as they start to make observations about him, it starts to almost take the air out of his nobility because each of them has something to say to him that's pretty much right. And I and I think there's a it's a I'm still thinking about it when I'm watching the film. But one of the things I like most about what what the piece pulls off is there's kind of this inversion, you know, Reagan Reagan kind of goes from the admirable one to a guy you realize is kind of a straw man. And and a lot of the other characters start off very unappealing and in some sense, you know, deepen and and and it's and rise a little bit. I don't know. Everyone's arc was so kind of unorthodox, you know, the arc of your character and all that was all unorthodox. And so this guy's just so bold. I mean, we could spend hours talking about the courage Alejandro has and the intelligence and the passion. But, you know, everybody's right. Everybody's wrong. He's an equal opportunity offender, you know. And I don't think Birdman is always this voice. A lot of what he says is true. A lot of what the critic says is true. A lot of what I say back to the critic is true. You know, it's really about humanity. You know, it's really just thick with just thick with with humanity, you know, how we all are and aren't. But I would say that Alejandro is not the only one manifesting courage here. I think it takes very courageous actors to do this kind of material, because even if it's about humanity, it uses actors as the prism and theater as the prism to find the humanity. It's the wonderful moment where Riggins on top of the roof and yells flames, sacrifice Icarus. And, you know, but there's also the moment where the lady is so New York, a lady yells to me, you're making a movie or what? I mean, it says your people are so full of ----. That's my favorite moment. But at the risk of asking perhaps a silly question, I was wondering, because you are actors, whether the impulse to act or to fly, is that more of a soaring out of the self or into the self? Wow. Hmm. I mean, wow. I'm just asking. This is a this is this is this is why I took her film class. I mean, you know, I'm just curious, you know, for an actor. What does that mean? The soaring, is it? Mm hmm. Or is it somehow, you know, maybe maybe not tonight? OK. Maybe it's time to open this up to questions from the audience. So I will repeat. I see one right in the middle there. Yes. Is acting escape from yourself as an actor, you're saying. And great acting all around. And I saw another hand somewhere down here. Sorry. Where am I? Yes. Sorry. Yes. And oh, OK. First here and then right over there. What's that? What is the book that the character Mike is reading in the suntan tube capsule? Borges. It's Borges' Labyrinths. Now, for those of you, I hope many of you know that Borges is the great Latin American writer whose Labyrinths does in literary terms a little bit of what directors like Iñárritu try to do in cinematic terms where it's not just a linear reality, but a dislocation that forces the reader or the viewer to move into a more questioning relationship to what is being read or watched. It's kind of great stuff, actually. Yes. Great actor. Wow. That Johnny Carson talked about books that he had dreams that he used to have related to flying, which he related to performance. For the actors, are there dreams that you've had, whether of flying or something else that you can connect to these characters? Zach? All my dreams are all my dreams involve hitchhiking like I'm. So I don't know what that means, but I'm always hitchhiking somewhere with a sign that says I don't have a gun. So I don't know. I don't know what that means, but I've never connected my unconscious life with my conscious life yet. I'll look into it one of these days, but I'm not that mature yet. I've had the classic dream where you're in school or in public and you have no pants on, no clothes on. And I sometimes think, wow, what is that about? And then I go, oh, yeah, there was that day I went to school in no pants. I have dreams that I'm like in a in a Brazilian bikini or naked. And then I realize that I mean, that's that's just Alejandro's film that I've just done. I have dreams of that, too, but they're daydreams. Big difference. Wait, but of me in the bikini? Why do you think I signed on? Dreams? Oh, I've had dreams, plenty of dreams. Oh, yeah, they're all linked. I'm dreaming right now. And this is this is Sally Bowles in Cabaret a couple of weeks or so. Wait, are you going to be doing that? Oh, then you are literally going to be having your Broadway debut after having played an actress. Let's all go together. No, actually. Right. I was. Wow. I wasn't. But it's I was saying the other day, it feels like I really am my father's daughter with this one, you know. And is Alan Cummings still going to be in the cast when you're doing it? Oh, I'm going to come and see that one. All right. But and maybe it's because I'm teaching this week in my class at Columbia, the unbearable lightness of being. But there is this wonderful line, actually. I think Koundra says it in the book. Can I just ask, did did Fulcoffman ever make a better movie than that? No, I think that's his masterpiece, although the right stuff comes very close. But that's the unbearable lightness of being the film and the movie. There's the sense of that the unbearable lightness is like going on stage on rehearsed that unbearable lightness of not really in control of what you have to do. And in a way, I think that does hover over the film, too. There was a hand right over there. Yes. Wouldn't that be an actor's nightmare? How do you relate acting to out of body experience or astrological projections? Yes, I'm sorry. Astral, astral, astral, astral, astral. Well, you know, actually, without me and without, you know, that's that's kind of an interesting question, actually, because you do. No, it is because you kind of do sometimes get to the point where you, you know, certain things just take over and you're kind of lost from it. Especially if it's good. I think you kind of go there, to be honest, without. Yeah. Well, I don't know what that is. But, yeah, sometimes you just get lost and you're kind of in it. Right. There's a hand in the back on the right that I just saw. Yes. On the aisle. Go ahead. Not sure if all of you in the balcony could hear, but a question about what is your take on the film's cultural critique of actors doing work? On the one hand, but it's the social media, the sort of attention to the things that are not the acting that dominate attention instead. I'm going to Facebook for an answer. No, I'm kidding. And. Emma, you're young and. All right, here we go. Um, yeah, no, that's that's a fantastic question. And that obviously was one that I I needed to to look at a little bit for myself because because Sam, because my character was so was so adamantly, you know, in support of her Twitter, Instagram, Googling generation. Yeah, it's difficult. I mean, from it's I this is the time that I, you know, I'm 26. So it's my I think my generation was probably the very, very last generation to grow up on actual books and iPads or laptops. So I I don't I don't know. I mean, I've never known life as an adult without iPhones all around. And and I think I mean, I don't have any social media. And I think it's I don't it's a very it's a very interesting conversation. And obviously, infamy seems to be kind of the goal for a great portion, at least of America, rather than, you know, working towards something. There seems to be this sort of reality show culture. I am losing myself as I speak. I don't even know. I'm clearly talking about this. But yeah, it's I don't know. I don't know. I really don't know what what the answer is. I don't know what I'm saying. No, that makes sense. No, I think that actually makes sense. My face is melting off. All right. Amazing. Yes. Didn't even answer anything. I just said a bunch of words about about media, actually. But if you were in my class, I'd give you a high grade for that. Really? Yes, I would think. It seems at one point, everyone in the cast slaps Edward Norton's character. A question about how did how you did the fight scene? Is it true that one can't do a fight scene with someone who's afraid of being hurt? I think the only really. I was going to say, I think the only really significant stunt punch was, you know, our right. Although you took it, you took a good whack there in the end from Amy, but she really did it, right? I mean, she. Yeah, that was supposed to be a blooper. Yeah, I think, Amy. Yeah. You grew your beard a little. She connected a little too hard. It occurred. I think the one we did that that one was a good example, actually, of one of those things that's the main thing that was tense about it to me was that that was, in fact, getting that was like two thirds of the way through. I think one of the longer unbroken sequences in the movie that there was a lot of really, really long and emotionally involved and intricate scenes stacked up before we got to that. And the thing the tough thing about a movie punch is that sort of a camera has to line up at about the right angle and Michael has to throw at about the right height. And I have to sell at about the right pitch. And a lot of those things are easy to fall off. And on a new on a normal film, you would just you would just work that alone for a bit and to have something like that, you know, knowing that that was coming and at the cost of not hitting the mark on that, so to speak, was was a lot of really, really connected. Work was a good example of what Emma talked about. Sort of the stress of where the whole construct could get a little stressful. Yeah. So there's the thing where, you know, that's that's the scene where he and I go through this whole thing. And it's long. It's emotional. That's fake emotional. He's got to buy in and they got to sell the comedy of that. And then you're thinking, but it went back way before that. It went back to the dressing room prior to. Oh, yeah. All the way down. All your stuff. And then it could all be blown if Chivo doesn't get in the right angle or Ed doesn't sell it or I'm not high enough because, you know, the there's a whole thing that it's talking about where, you know, if you camera moves are here, you see the myths all the time. And it's the most it's the most simple thing. We could have done all that and blown it and probably in the back of our heads. We're thinking this is probably going, OK, man, I got to sell this punch because I really don't want to redo this. This is the thing. And also what I was saying earlier today, it occurred to me weeks later after that scene, because I think that seems really funny. And I was thinking about it. I thought, wait a minute. Edwards was in Fight Club. I could have gotten my ass kicked. Totally easy on me. I love that scene. I think scenes with what's the movie where Ben Stiller and somebody else are in little little towels and they get into a fight. Starsky and Hutch in that scene with the funniest ******* thing I've ever seen. Professor, do you agree of Starsky and Hutch? Is that one of your favorite films as well? I missed that one. No, that scene is really funny, really funny. I try to keep up with everything. I missed that one. I know that there are more questions and we would love to spend more time with these people. I'm just going to conclude by saying fascinating that Alejandro sent them all, if I read this correctly, a photo of Philippe Petit when he was walking on that height, the tight wire, the height between the Twin Towers, saying to them something like I wanted them to remember that we would all be walking on a high wire dependent on precision, confidence and a trust in each other. We could all fall very easily. That they didn't is, to me, the quintessential aspect of ensemble. People ask me, what's ensemble acting? Just a lot of good actors in a movie? No. What I've learned tonight is that ensemble acting is when each depends so much on the genius of the others as well as the director. And this, I think, brings the whole notion of ensemble acting to a new height. Even though I like the line in the movie, Mike says popularity is the slutty little cousin of prestige. I really hope that when this film opens on Friday in New York and L.A., it finds a really large and appreciative audience. Thank you so much for joining us.