Echoes of Us featuring Ruth Carter

Hey, y'all, welcome back to Echoes of Us. I'm Arata Odayo. And I'm Sarah Bien-Ime. You know, our podcast is all about those in the community who inspire us in a culture that shapes us. And today our guest was on Zoom, but it's a very special guest, a two time Academy Award winner. Her work on the movie Sinners received 16 Oscar nominations. And she also worked on Black Panther and the sequel, Black Panther Wakanda Forever, making her the most nominated Black woman in Oscar history. Take a look. Thank you so much to the Ruth Carter for joining us on the podcast. And, you know, we talked a couple of months ago when you were nominated. But now we want to dive deeper into getting to know who you are. So let's get to the root. You're from the great city of Springfield. I mean, what was that like? Walk us through some of your spots growing up. It was costume designing a part of this at the time. Oh, wow. No, I don't think anybody knows when they're a kid what they want to be. But for me, I grew up with brothers who were artists and we revered them as a family, especially my brother, Robert, who we knew that he had work that our neighbors owned. He had portraits of people we knew. And so as a child, we knew that art was in our family, but I didn't consider it, you know, as a part of my life until much, much later. We just tried to be like him. And I grew up on Maynard Street. That's the one of my earliest memories, even though I know we lived other places. But Maynard Street was a straight shot to the Boys and Girls Club. You walked all the way up Maynard Street to Acorn. And I go to the Boys and Girls Club and get into a lot of the activities there. And I feel like, you know, when I was growing up, you know, long before any of you all were born in the 60s, like, you know, 69, 70, 71. I you could like leave your front door unlocked. You could, you know, as a kid, I could walk all those two blocks up the road to the Boys and Girls Club and be completely safe. We don't live in that kind of world today. Maybe we didn't then. But it seemed as though there were less risks back then. And I went to Homer Street School there and I was there in like first or second grade. Then busing happened and we were bused to other schools, better schools, I guess. And so I went to Glickman, which was in 16 Acres in elementary school. And then I went to Van Sickle. And I remember being in a play at Van Sickle and actually getting like the leading part, the star role. And I was really proud of it. And my mother and my sister came to see the performance. But it started to kind of gradually enter my life as I emulated what I saw my brothers doing. My brother, Roy, who was a Springfield police officer, he's since retired. But growing up, we like to sketch and draw. And that was some part of our activities as kids. I love that. I love that. And so you visit Springfield a lot. You come back so many times. Do you feel as though Springfield still influences your future talent or your creativity? Yeah, I think that the great thing about Springfield is that it's right, like right in the middle between Boston and New York. So you can actually go to New York City. I remember going to school, shopping in New York City. And also my mom took me on church bus trips. You know, I went. We were members of Bethel AME Church and we did bus trips to New York to see plays, Broadway plays, off Broadway plays. And I remember being fascinated by seeing for colored girls, you know, and Mama, I want to sing and the Wiz. We went on bus trips to New York. And then my sister, Debbie Carter, she went to school at Northeastern University in Boston. My brother, Richard, he lived in Boston. I had friends that went to universities. And so we when we thought of Boston, we thought of education. And so I would go visit them and I would get, you know, a taste of what the Boston lifestyle was like in terms of like very cold. I remember being very cold. But, you know, when you grow up in Springfield, you know, cold, you know, cold, you know how to be prepared for cold. But, you know, it just gave me a little bit more of an expanse on like what what step are you going to make after you graduate from from high school? Are you going to go to Boston? Are you going to go towards New York? And it just gave me a greater sense of the world because, you know, Springfield gives you choices. And, you know, even within Springfield, we had the Dunbar. We have Frank Hatchett, who used to teach dance. And there was at UMass Amherst. We we had Upward Bound at Amherst College. We had Uhuru Sasa. There were all of these, you know, regional programs that you could get involved with that were enriching and sort of, you know, you had mentors there and helped you make decisions about your future. That's great. And I'm curious, is your family still here? Do you still have family here or they kind of like moved around now? Oh, yeah, I have family. I have brothers, their sisters, their nieces. Nieces got kids. One of my nieces, just her child just got married. We went to their their wedding. Now they're having a child. Like I have family all over Springfield. So when do we meet you in person? Oh, yeah. I'm waiting for that. What's your spot? Do you have like a certain food spot or somewhere you're always going? I always go to Beauty Within to get my spa treatments and my hair done. That's over in Six Corners. You know, it's Vanessa. Vanessa. Oh, God, what's your last name? Vanessa Hall. And she owns Beauty Within. And that's one of my spots. I go to the Jamaican spot right there on William Wilbraham Boulevard, Wilbraham Road to get me some oxtails. Yeah, yeah. I'm looking for the soul food spot. Every time I go home, I call. She used to be the mayor's assistant. Yes, I did. Have you landed on my soul food spot yet? Because when I come home, I'm ready to celebrate, to eat, to play some spades and to just get my party on. See, we're both new to Western Mass. So you're giving us the recommendations because now we got to go. Yes, yes. There's like spots like that that I I go to all the time. And I yeah, just like all kinds of places. All right, then. So we're writing all that down. But for now, we're going to take a quick break and about the thought of a game we should play in the next segment. So we're going to do that, OK? All right. You're watching Echoes of Us. We'll be right back. Back to Echoes of Us. We're here with the Ruth Carter. We have a little game to play. You said it was a quiz off camera. So let's get into it. So we're going to name some of the characters in Sinners, obviously costume designer for the movie. So we're going to name some of the characters and you're going to tell us maybe a few words to describe the look, your inspiration behind it. So Sarah is going to start. Let's do it. Let's do it. So let's start with everybody's crush, Michael B. Jordan, who plays Smoke in Stack. So what was your inspiration behind his looks? He was to play two people, basically. Yeah, he played his own twin. He was Chicago, up in Chicago, working for Al Capone. And so Chicago, being that it's a cold place, we want to show that they migrated. They did a reverse migration from the north back to the south. And instead of making them look like they were rooted there, we put them in wool. So their suits were made of wool and they were a little bit heavier. So when you see them buying the sawmill from the the white guy, he looks very southern. He looks like, you know, he's in light tones and a white shirt because it's hot. They, on the other hand, look like they migrated back from the northern cities. And so they're in blue houndstooth. And Michael B. Jordan is in a stack. He's in a reddish brown three piece suit. And they have all the accoutrements of like being, you know, somebody who moves away and comes back and they're wealthier and they've got, you know, they've got a plan. Well, that's how they had to look and smoke in blue with his denim cap. You know, he came out of the war and so he has no tie. And you see, he has trouble. His hands shake when he tries to roll the cigarette. He can't roll a cigarette. So his brother rolls it for him and he hands it to him. But also he can't not a tie either. He can't do any of those little things because of of his post traumatic situation. But Stack, his brother, can do it all. He's got the collar bar. He's got the tie bar. He's got the pocket watch. He has all of the accessories of of a man in control. But smoke, on the other hand, does not, but smoke holds a gun under his coat. And he has so his clothes fit him a little bit bigger. There's pants are a little bit big. Stack on the other side. His clothes are tailored to his body. So that's how we kind of got those ideas out. Wow. So many details and parallels. And now that I think about it, I'm like, wait, right. That was honestly put on purpose. So what about Mary, played by Haley Steinfeld? Yes. Well, Mary was kind of the ghost of their past. And, you know, everyone in the film wears some version of red, white and blue because we wanted to kind of subtly say this is American story. So it was sort of like a Norman Rockwell painting. So Mary is like a ghost from Stack's past. So she's in pink. She's like this light pastel pink. We see her at the train station. She's like he look. You can't mistake her. You pick her out of everyone else because she's also married to someone who has a little bit more money. She's more put together than she was if she was that country girl. She don't want to be that country girl anymore. Then we see her coming into the come into the juke joint. It's like she's wearing the slip to that dress. So it's the same tone, but it's super lightweight and silky and flowy because she doesn't live there anymore. So she's coming to party and everyone. Actually, it's 1931. It's not the late 20s. Well, there are little things like you've got something in your closet that you've had for five years. I know I do. Even longer, especially if you were a shore cropper, you know. And so we wanted to like, you know, let the timeline of the way that the clothes fit in the way that they draped be be kind of linear and play with it back and forth so that, you know, even the other people in the juke joint could have something that felt a little late 20s. But but Mary at the train station, you see her. She's like giving us the timeline. It's 1931 where the clothes were more bias cut and long down to the ankle. And she has the matching cap. It's like she's new money. And then when she goes to the juke joint, she dials that back to a higher, a higher skirt length. And more of a late 20s look. OK, OK, OK. So up next, we got Sammy, who was played by Myles Caton. He you showed the center show a younger version of him and then an older version of him as well. So what was the inspiration behind his looks? Yeah, well, Sammy brought back hand-me-downs and patches and like people think of patches now as being such a fashionable thing. But back then you didn't want to have no patches in your clothes. So when I looked at patches from back in some of the real vintage clothes, people were trying to match that denim up and put the patch in. So almost like it disappeared. So he has patches all over his clothes and one patches on his shoulder that maybe the guitar strap wore it down. So I love that Sammy was trying to make a look that felt like it was a blues man, an old blues man. He has old like two-tone shoes. He has his own little vest. But all of his clothes are made of cotton and that and his shirt. Actually, if he were to pop his collar on his shirt, he'd have like a tuxedo shirt on. So his pieces are found. Pieces are gained from from the here and there. And he represents the earth because he's in earth tones. You see Smoke and Stack and Red and Blue like that American story. But you see Sammy is in earth tones because he represents the earth. He is what this whole story kind of centers around, especially when you get to the surreal montage. Wow. OK, last up, we have Annie played by our pregnant queen, Wunmi Musaku. Yes, our pregnant queen. Wunmi was so great and she was so open to so many different directions. And we we tried many things on her, but because she was a root worker and she practiced hoodoo and ifa and, you know, back then you didn't. If you were sick, you couldn't just go to the doctor. Doctor wasn't in your in the black communities. There was a root worker there. And you went to that place. I know at the end of our block on Main Street, we had a lady who used to sell icees and we would go to her back door and she will have made them in her freezer. But she was this woman we could depend on for that. And that's who Annie was. She was somebody in the community that you could depend on when you were sick. You could go there and get some hop, John, and a little pinch of this. So she tell you, you know, your fortune. She could she could look in your palm. You know, she was a special person to this community. So I didn't want her to look like she was a witch. I didn't want her to look like he had some black magic. And I looked at all the other people that played these kind of spiritual workers in movies. And they always seem to have like a shawl wrapped around their shoulders and a third eye and a turban. And I didn't want to make her that character. I wanted to make make her as real a woman as possible, because that's who they were. They were real people. And and also I wanted her to be just very womanly and very relatable so that when smoke gets there and she talks about their lost child, that you could forget that she was a root worker for a moment and you could just see that she was this strong woman. I'm going to call you a stack with. Now, I need to like rewatch to really understand everything. But before we continue, let's just take a quick break. But let everybody know that this nomination or this movie was nominated for so much. So we're going to talk about that in the next break and then upcoming projects. Yeah. Miss Ruth. Yeah. You're watching because of us. We'll be right back. We are back with Ruth Carter. Thank you again for joining us. We have, again, so much to cover. So so on the last part of that segment, we did sneak in some things about the Oscars, the nominations as well. So let's talk about that. How was it going to the Oscars? Well, you know, this was my fifth nomination. So this is the fifth time that I've been to the Oscars and this Oscar nomination marked that I am the most nominated black woman in Oscar history. And I'm proud of that. I'm proud to keep like breaking ground for the next gen to, you know, walk that path. And I think that, you know, me being there at the Oscars, you know, aside from it being like really thrilling to be with everybody on centers, we had 13 nominations. So the team was there. You know, we were sitting with the team and most of the other nominations you're sitting there with maybe one other person. And we're like, what are you going to do afterwards? I don't know. What are you going to do afterwards? You know, you're you're kind of like a little bit lonely for your colleagues. But not this one. This one, Ryan Coogler was sitting with his wife in front of me and the editor was sitting there. And next to me was the casting director. And behind me was Rafael Sadiq, who wrote I lied to you. And and, you know, Michael V. Jordan was just ten rows up. And it's wonderful to be able to celebrate that with the team. And we have to include that you designed your outfit for the Oscars, and we loved it. What inspired that look of yours? Well, you know, I repurposed the beaded part, because when I won for Wakanda Forever, I did some tribal beaded looks that didn't make it to the Oscars. I wore it to Jay-Z's Gold Party, but I was like, nobody saw this. And so I took the beadwork, which was very intricate, and I redesigned the top and put it on a black skirt. And then I always like to wear those like capes with big puff sleeves. And so I did that when I won the first Oscar. I had the puff sleeve cape and then I did it again. So, you know, it's like, I guess it's my my thing. Right. Wow. I love that. Well, let's talk about where you are. What's coming up next? You give us a little hint. I'm off camera, but feel free to tell the people. Yeah. Yeah. What time is it there? One twenty six p.m. It's seven twenty six p.m. here. I'm in Rome. We are we are eight hours, seven hours ahead of you. I'm working with Denzel Washington again. I haven't worked with him since Malcolm X, I believe. That was. I can't believe it myself. I keep saying to him, I got to look at my resume again because are you sure that was the last one? And so he's playing Hannibal Barca. You know, Hannibal, he fought the Romans and he created an army of tribes around Africa and fought the Romans. So we're telling that story here in Rome. Wow. And then you just finish up another project as well. Yes, I just came from London and Naples, Italy, where we shot the Thomas Crown Affair. And that was with Michael B. Jordan. Everybody cried. Yes, you know, I have such a hard job. I go from Michael B. Jordan to Denzel and back again. Oh, to be you. Well, they're challenging jobs, really challenging. I don't take it lightly. Sometimes I don't even like to talk about it because I don't like I'm a little superstitious, you know, and I feel like I like to keep things kind of quiet and close, you know, until I haven't figured out because we're just figuring it out now. Yeah, give us I'm curious. Give us a pro and a con of your job. I know there's probably a bit of both, but is there any main ones that people would be like, oh, like I didn't know that? Oh, I guess the pros are you get to meet some amazing makers, shoemakers, craftspeople, leather workers, amazing cutters, people who can do dye work and print work all over the world. That is a super plus. And then I get the budgets to actually work with them with, you know, I work on really big films that have, you know, they want you to excel with the costumes. So I get the budgets to work with them. And then I guess the cons are it is a lot of pressure. It takes you away from home. I sometimes bring my loved one with me to be on location. But, you know, you are constantly on the move. And so you might have a few dinners alone or, you know, you might be people watching a little more than you really want to. But I think that's kind of like the sacrifice that you make as an artist to, you know, for the luxury of being able to go all over the world and do what you love. You sometimes have to do it by yourself. Interesting, interesting. And this might tie into like my next question. So what advice would you give young, inspiring and costume designers that want to be just like you? I would say that you really have to have a love for this because of the sacrifices that you might have to make to learn. You're never you're always a student of your passion and you're always a student of costume design. And there's no one person that's going to be able to bring you on their team and hand you the golden ticket to success. You're going to have to carve your own niche and you're going to have to really be dedicated to it to succeed. And, you know, just because I worked with Spike Lee and I had my own path doesn't mean that you can't find a young filmmaker. You're someone from your peers that you align with and you can grow together. And so I think that that, you know, align with your peers and understand their creative creative path. And you guys can do it together. Wow. That's so you're so humble as well, because I feel like it can be easy. I want to know it's going to be easy to get lost in the sauce and all the fame and glory. But I feel like you even just coming and talking to us while you're in Rome. I mean, just thank you so much for taking time to speak with us and share your journey. So it's about giving back. I think that's what happened to me in Springfield. So, you know, if I can give somebody some inspiration, I'm here to do it. Well, thank you again for speaking to us. Hopefully we do see you in person so we can see you again as well. And I thank everybody. You need to have a smoking spot on Wolverham Road. Yeah, you got it. Thank you so much.