Dwayne Johnson on Fatherhood, Hustle, Mental Health & Building a Life Beyond Fame

How long were you touring for? I toured from... We started when we were 15. When we left home we were 17. And then we were just kind of... We were traveling, touring, trying to make it work. And then by 19 I was on the road. Full time? Full time. And then I retired when I was 35. What a run, man. So I didn't retire, retire, we still make records every five years. We'll go do a world tour or something. But not like 10 months a year. That was a grind. It's like the wrestling schedule. It's the same thing. There's no off season. You're just going. We probably wrestled in the same venues that you guys play too, I'm sure. Same venues, same arenas. I imagine it's the same thing. You're killing time all day before the show. Doing press, going to some radio station. Promoting the whole thing. And then that hour a night, hour and a half a night, that's what you do it for. Nothing like it. That's the magic. That's it. That's a connection. Did you run two shows in the same town often, or three shows? Or after the show you were on to the next town? Most of the time you're out. You're packing up. We were doing five or six shows a week. Five or six cities then? Yeah. We had a six day, one day off. That was our rule because we were just so... Have to. You spend money when you're sitting. When you're paying for the whole tour. You have trucks and you have all that stuff. We were always kind of impoverished in the way that I think we were afraid not to work. Because you think it's going to go away. You think you're going to lose it. Do everything you can. Yes. Which is good in some ways. But in other ways, I think we ran ourselves into the ground a little bit. We had multiple years where we did 330 shows a year. For like five years straight. Wow. We would do back then 230, 240 a year, which is a lot. For what you're doing. Still, it's performance, performance. Our matches would last maybe, it all depends, anywhere between 10 and 30 minutes. But you're getting surprise injuries. We're trying not to get injuries. Doing our best. Same thing like you guys, we would pack up after the show and then just go to the next town. But over 300, that's hardcore. Many years of that. We shouldn't have done that. We overtoured markets. We did all that, but we were so afraid. That it's all going to go away. That's the hunger and drive part of it. You know what's crazy, dude? My old man was a pro wrestler back in the 80s. Remember the wrestler, Mickey Rourke? Had it not been for the grace of God that I was able to take care of my mom and dad, we would have ended up like that. There's not a lot of glory back then. My point was, those guys were doing over 300 dates a year, like you guys. And running into the ground. It was nuts back then. When you come from nothing. Yes. My dad, I had a very complicated relationship with my dad. He left when I was young, but he was a good guy. I always liked him. But he had a lot of stuff he didn't know how to work out. Alcoholic. Rageaholic. Old school, tough guy. My dad too, man. It was a different generation. They didn't have the access to tools that we have. Now you can go on an app and get a therapist. Like emotional tools. The toolbox has grown now where we can figure it out pretty quickly. We're also in a generation of guys that talk more about their stuff. Your dad wasn't about that. I had a really complicated relationship with my old man too. Alcoholic, same thing. I, like you, liked my dad a lot. I really started to understand, especially once he passed away. He passed away in 2020 suddenly, so I never had a chance to say goodbye. Me too. 2019, gone. We had a really nice 10 years together. We had a nice relationship. He hadn't worked out everything, but he had evolved enough to see that we had worked some stuff out and we bonded in a way that was really nice. That's great. We had made our amends and our peace. We were in a good place. I was really sad when he passed away. Your friend passed away. I'm sorry. What did he pass away from? Alcohol. Did he ever get clean? No. That's what I was saying. That generation, they just worked until they died. That's it. He worked in a shipyard. Never wanted anything from me. I literally could only buy him a couple things. That was it. I bought him an old car. He always loved 65 Impalas. I bought him an old car. Couldn't give that back. I was like, you can't give this back. Bought him a truck. Couldn't give that back. Wouldn't let me pay his house off. Wouldn't let me do anything like that. That's that generational pride. Generation, yes. When they're working in a shipyard, you're like, I'm touring. This isn't a real job, so I'm going to work myself into the ground if I can. That's that hunger part. I'm curious about your parents. Were they divorced? When they divorced and you started to make it and started to make money, was he more like, hey, just take care of your mom. I'm good. Take care of her. He wasn't in my life for the first part. My career, if I put it in chapters, the first chapter was music success. Hit records, platinum records, do the thing, go on that ride for a decade or so. Then he didn't show back. We didn't reconnect until towards the end of that. He wasn't there for the ride. He followed us. He did quietly. He was never hitting you up? No. Old school. Really proud of us. We always took care of our mom from day one. The minute I got my first check, first thing I did was put a down payment on a house for her. That was it. It was awesome. He was proud of that. He never wanted anything. He was a special guy. He didn't even have to tell you guys, take care of your mom. It was always the dream. You know how it is when you're young. One day I'm going to buy you a house, mom. I don't know about you guys, but we never lived. It was always apartments and trailer parks. At that time, pro wrestling wasn't as global. These guys were just grinding and grinding every night. My dream was to buy them their first house. Man, that was a good feeling. I have a theory about you, though. I follow you. I'm a fan. I follow the stuff you do. Everything you do. One of the things I see you do that makes me really happy is when you surprise people. You give them stuff. I always know when I see another guy who came from nothing. We want to play Santa Claus. We want to show up for all the kids. You watch those movies when you're a kid where the kid gets to go to Toys R Us and buy the rich dad or adopt something and they get to get whatever they want. That's the feeling as a kid when you don't have anything. You dream of being able to buy whatever you want. Then as you get older, you realize giving to other people you get the most joy out of that. I see you surprise a guy. I saw you gave a guy a truck. I was like, that's badass. That's what life's all about. I always know when another guy came from nothing because that's the feeling that we want to have when we get something. It's not even actually about us. It's about letting them experience what our dreams were when we didn't have. That's cool. Thank you. You do the same thing. Any chance I get. People always ask, what's your top five movies? One of my top five movies is Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory. There's a gazillion reasons why that movie is amazing. The original with Gene Wilder. That moment at the end where he tells Charlie, you did it. You got it all. Charlie's like, wait, what? Even Grandpa Joe? He's like, Grandpa Joe too? Everybody moves in. You got the entire Chocolate Factory. I love ---- like that. Me too. In those moments, it's surprising somebody with a car, a truck, a this, a that, whatever it is. It's all Willy Wonka moment, man. Exactly. It's the joy of knowing what it's like to not have something. It's the joy of actually having it. Even when I bought my first car or my first house. It's surreal when you haven't had that before. We were always moving around. It was just always a thing. The house thing was always tough. Get evicted or you have to move in with people from church. Even to this day when I walk in my bathroom and I feel the wood floor or the marble shower. It's a nice house. You never get tired of it. Ever. There's never a day I take it for granted. Always grateful. You're always having those moments. Is this my life? This is my life. Then you want someone to experience any piece of that you can share with them. It'd be impossible to share all of it with everyone, but I always tell my kids if we have something, we give something. Whatever it is. Even if it's just the tip at the restaurant. Anytime you notice an opportunity to give something, it feels good to give. It's great. I see you do that and I'm just like, man, that guy, what a hero. I love doing that kind of stuff because you're right. I always feel like you and I are really lucky and blessed boys. We work our asses off, but also just to be able to do the stuff we love to do. You get up in the morning and that thing, you hope you're able to do something where you get up and you run to it in the morning. With you guys, music, with me, the stuff I do, you just run to it. We get lucky and blessed. I tell our girls too. I got one 22-year-old and then we have two little ones, all girls. The little ones, I'm always telling them, same thing, you give, but always, I've gotten to a great place now with them where they love surprising too as well. I got into a good place where tips are important. I'll do the math. I'm like, hey, how much should we leave? They'll know. Go big. It's great. Then it's gotten to a point where they're like, can I give them the money? I say, yeah. You go up and you give them money. Say thank you for your time and service. We appreciate it very much. It's just the best. I got a seven-year-old. She's eight now and a five-year-old. They go up, have that moment, give them money. It's really cool. It's nice. It's nice to be able to do that. How do you... Before we start, I got a little thing. Can I break out some tequila for you and I? Yes, please. In the ice, please. I'm a tequila guy. Thank you. My pleasure, man. A little bit more. You know Glenn Campbell? That singer, Glenn Campbell? He said, I've never been drunk. I've just been over served. You can put it up here if you want. Thank you, brother. Cheers, brother. Cheers. Good to see you. Good to sit down with you. Thanks for coming. Happy birthday. Thank you. It's my birthday shot. I also love this. Good, man. Reminds me of a grape soda when I was a kid. Funny story behind that. In today's market, there's a ton of flavors out there with all the energy drinks and cotton candy fruity pebble and all that. I was telling our group, I said, we need a flavor that reminds me of when I was a kid. Grape. Exactly. Get a Debbie cake and a grape soda. This is great. Thank you, brother. Thank you. It's a good one. It's super clean, by the way. Is that the only alcohol you drink, tequila? It's the one I like. Love tequila. Always a big fan. Me too. Love it. Love the tequila. It's the only one that I can drink through the night. I can have three drinks over three hours. Sip it. Still gets me. Takes me back a little, but I can't get too crazy. Now I'm 45. Yeah, man. I got teenagers. My son's 14. My daughter's 16. They're great. You got to contain the animal. Whiskey, no good. Vodka, no good. Tequila, I drink tequila. That's my drink. You can sip it. It's perfect. Exactly. You were going to say something. I have a question for you too, but go ahead. One more thing with your dad, but I'm just so curious about that relationship, man. He was proud of your success. Absolutely. Did it take him a long time to say, hey man, I just want you to know, I wasn't there in the beginning. I want you to know I love you. I'm so proud of you. Did you get that from him? I eventually got that from my old man, but it took a long time. As sons, it's the stuff that we wait for. It's all you want. We had that conversation more or less. He said, sorry I wasn't there, but look at what you've done. I'm proud of you. You turned out okay. Somewhere in that 10 or 11 years, we had that conversation a few times. We got all the way there. I found myself always looking around at other guys because I didn't have a model. He was kind of in and out. He struggled to stay, but he was always pretty honest. There's a ton of things in me that I got from my dad. Honesty, pull over and help someone change a tire. That was him. If you can help someone, help them. Hard work. Worked his ass off. Always had two or three jobs. Callous kind of guy. Yeah, tough. I was angry at him for most of my life until I had kids. That's when I realized this is what that feels like. I probably would have ran too. Poor kids. God bless my mom. Marriage is tough. I think back then too, they didn't have the tools and the resources to figure out what is this partnership? How do we normalize the challenges of marriage and talk about it and work it out? That conversation was not happening with our dads. They didn't talk about it much. It would have been nice. He was tough. He was tough on me. When he was around, we were young. He was just a tough guy. That was his way of loving you. He was trying to get you ready for the world. I feel like with my old man too, once I became a dad and a father, I realized, ah, got it. Then once I got a little older, I realized, man, he had real limited capacity for love. What really helped me was the moment I understood, all right, my old man is loving me with all he's got. Everything he's got. Even if it's just this much, it's everything he's got. I need to appreciate that. Then go back a generation before him. My granddad was a World War II vet. You come back with trauma that you don't even know how to work out back then. That's right. My dad inherited some of that. When I think about I'm obsessed with history. I love watching and learning about what men went through to build the world. World War II is interesting because when you think about what those men sacrificed and then what their families gave for generations, we're the first generation of people who have probably broken the chains and the cycle of all the trauma and worked some out. We still have our work to do, but we're more in touch with if there's a problem we have to work out, we can talk about it. It's like mental health stuff. There was no mental health back then. No. That wasn't even a word we used. Our dad's not at all. In the generation before that, no, not at all. Could you imagine your dad saying, I'm taking a mental health day? No, I could not, by the way. Hey, family, I'm taking a mental health day. I need to take a day for me. This is it. They should have. God bless these guys, man. That's why I'm not mad at them. I'm like, dude, you were limited resources, limited income, you're raising four kids, you're trying to figure it all out, trying to stay married. Yes. That's that perspective that I learned and I'm glad you learned it too. When I talk with my buddies and we talk about the complicated relationships that we have with our dads, especially in that generation, I'm always telling them, man, your dad loved you to his full capacity. I love that you reconciled with your old man and you guys were able to have that beautiful eight, 10-year run, whatever it was, before he passed away suddenly. It was so challenging with me because I went into my dad like your dad, blue collar, he was kicked out of the house at 13. I'll tell you this crazy story. His dad died when he was 13. That's tough. Yes. The mom, my grandmother, had another boyfriend a couple of months later. That boyfriend was a drunk and on Christmas, it was either Christmas or Thanksgiving, I think it was Christmas, the new boyfriend took the turkey out of the oven and pissed on it. Then my dad got pissed. They got into a fight and my dad went outside and had a it was a stick or a toy gun and drew a line in the dirt and said, if you cross that, I'm sorry, yeah, he drew a line in the dirt and then took a shovel and said, if you cross that, I'm going to kill you. The drunk who pissed on the turkey crossed the line and my dad laid him out. With the shovel? With the shovel. Cold as a block of ice. This was in Amherst, Nova Scotia up in Canada. Oh, wow. Cops came. He was still knocked out. Cops told my grandmother, two things are going to happen when he regains consciousness. He's either going to kill your son or your son is going to kill him. One of these guys got to go. They can't live in the same house. To the cops, they were like, we're just being real with you. That's what's going to happen. My grandmother at that time looked at my dad who was 13 and said, you're out. Kicked him out and that was it. That's his reference. Right there, man, his life. That's it. That informed his life, his capacity to love. That was love. That was his example. That's the man who raised me. Shovel to the guy's head who's doing wrong. Now I got to leave, but I'll always protect my family and I'll work hard, but that's my capacity for love. That was the man who raised me. Then I wish, not only that, but he was also a pro wrestler. There was that dynamic of young buck son getting in the business. How's he going to do? He's probably worried about you too. Oh, because he told me when I told him, I think I want to do this. I think I've got some talent. Maybe I'll suck, but I feel like I have a passion for this. He was so adamantly against me getting into pro wrestling. He's like, you don't know if you have anything to offer. I don't want you to live like this. I live in an apartment that I can't even afford in Tampa, Florida for $500 a month. I don't want this for you. That's how you know he loves you though. Right, but at that time, if you think about it, I didn't have the emotional tools to realize, man, that's love. Dad, thank you. I love you. I still got to make my path. I didn't have that. I was like, what are you talking about? This is my life. Then we just did that for a long time. Then I wish I had what you had with your dad and you reconciled. We got into this huge fight Christmas 2019. It was awful. One of the biggest fights we ever got into. Just some stupid ... Then about a month later, he passed away. We weren't talking. Me too. Thank you though, man. I wish, you know what I mean? Man, I got to tell you though, I guarantee you that you guys somehow, someway ... I know I'm a more spiritual person now. It's weird. It's like your father always goes before you into the world, into the unknown. Even in death, he went somewhere before me. I was always terrified of death. I was always anxious. Something happened when he passed away. It was like he was going first. I feel like we're closer than we ever were when he was here. Yes, man. Yes. Me too. That's powerful. What is that? What do you think that is? I felt that way too. I was like, man, when my dad passed away, I feel like all the dumb that we were arguing about ... It doesn't even matter. It doesn't matter. Even that we didn't get to have a final conversation. I have a similar ... It's not the same. I feel your pain. My dad called me and I didn't answer. I would blow him off sometimes because sometimes he would call me and maybe he would be drinking. He was always calling me to tell me he loved me. It wasn't a bad thing. Yes. He was a character. I'll never forget this. My wife's father is Lionel Ritchie. Legendary Lionel. We're very close. Oh, that's right. You married to ... Nicole. Nicole. Lionel is the best. Yes. I have a story about him, but go ahead. I don't want to hear it. We could probably talk for three hours. The first time my dad ever met Lionel, he was a huge fan of Lionel. I said to Lionel, I was like, just so you know, my dad is just ... He's from Southeast D.C. He's old school. He's different from everybody out here. Lionel was like, Joel, you don't even have to tell me. I already know where you're from. I'm not from here either. I'm from Alabama. He's like, don't even worry. You don't have to explain. I want to meet your dad. He comes out for Thanksgiving. He's a black guy. He got into a bar fight. Wait, you're an old man? Yes. The night before he got on the plane, he flies out for Thanksgiving. He comes to Thanksgiving. He's a black guy. He's got some Ray-Bans on. I was like, Dad, you can take your glasses off. He's like, no, I can't. I was like, what's up? He pulls it down. He's got a black eye. Lionel is cool. He always told me, just like what you said, your dad loves you. I can just see it. I can feel it. As a dad, I know it. He's loving you how he can. That is just how it is. Right before he passed away, it was a few days. It was a day or two. He called me and I was at my kid's game. You're working. You're watching your kid play. You're like, I'll call him back. Now, the next chapter of my career is all these businesses we're building. It's great. It's going well. It keeps you busy. You're just running through your life. Nothing's more important sometimes than getting this deal done or getting this done or doing this. I was there at my kid's game multitasking. I was watching him. I was rolling some emails and doing the thing. He called me and I didn't take the call. A day or two later, gone. You'll always regret that. You can't hold on to it. You got to let it go. Do you remember the last time you talked to him? I don't remember the last time I talked to him. Do you have any of his messages? I saved one of his voicemails. I still have his number in my favorites. Oh yeah? Yeah. I see it every time I go. You know when you go to your quick call? Yeah. I got my wife, my brother, and there's my dad. I leave him there. I can't take him off. What was your dad's name? Roger. Roger? Yeah. That's cool. My dad's name was Rocky. Cool. Let me ask you this. What do you miss about your dad? He was the easiest person to call and talk to about anything. Wow. He never judged me. Wow. He never said easy for you to say. Yeah. You know all the things when you come from nothing and then you get something and you go back home, everyone's like, oh, out there in Hollywood. You're like, I don't know what you're talking about. I'm just out here working hard. It's just in me to not stop. He never did that. There was no judgment. If I said, I'm having a hard time because of this, he'd just go, yeah, I understand. He would always say little things like, it's just a dress rehearsal. Wow, yeah. He'd always say that. But he wasn't like an entertainment guy, right? He goes, ah, it's just a dress rehearsal. I'd be like talking about something that doesn't even matter now. You're like, ah, this deal, I'm trying to blah, blah, blah. We'd talk about stuff and I would talk about work and he would let me. Couldn't relate to it. Wow, man. He goes, I don't know, man. Yeah, that sounds stressful but yeah, you'll be all right. He'd say, you're good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're good. Just little things like that, I came to appreciate the ease of it and that he really did, he was proud of me and he believed in me. That's so cool, man. Yeah, my dad was the same way. I feel like he was super proud but he expressed it differently. Look, it would have been awesome to have a conversation like that, like you have with your dad where I just talked to him about and he's like, it's going to be okay, cool, dress rehearsal, whatever. He would listen and then figure, this is some of the that I miss actually about my dad. He would listen and then kind of bring it back around to himself. Like, oh yeah, absolutely. No, I totally understand. Hey, you know that shirt you had on on TV? Can I get a couple of those shirts? Is that by, he'd do that or can you hook me up with the, like it was always that. You're like, uh, sure, dad. Yeah, it was always that. Like you know how, I'm sure your dad was the same, like my old man was just like always hustling, man, for a buck. You know, always hustling, so I would always get the hustle too. We would always, like, we'd be at events. Dude, I'll never forget this. This is such a Hollywood story. I love Hollywood stories. Dude, we were at the Chinese theater where you put your hands in the cement. I had that honor. Amazing. Everyone comes out, put their hands in the cement. I had my daughter there at that time. My wife, family, everybody brought my old man out, him and my mom. The event's done. Everyone's just chilling in the back, having some drinks. Everyone's talking. Hey, congratulations. My dad comes up and he's like, hey, yeah, congratulations. And I'm expecting him to say, I gotta tell you, that was really awesome. I mean, this is crazy, right? It was, you know, two wrestlers and my son, this Hollywood dude. He goes, can I talk to you a second? I said, yeah. And anytime, you know, I'm used to that. I was like, here it comes. He's like, you know, the truck you got me, it's a little hard for me to fit into nowadays with my hip. He's got those old wrestler injuries. My hip and I gotta get in. I saw this amazing escalate. It's nice and wide. I'm thinking, here's what I think. So now here comes a hustle. Instead of him saying, could you pick this up for me? He's like, alright, here's what we're gonna do. I'll give you back the one you gave me. Then I know a guy down at the dealer. Give it to him. He's gonna give you a great deal. We'll do the exchange and blah, blah, blah. And I'll pay you back. I'll figure out the payments monthly. I was like, dad, it's all good. There's no payments. It's all good. But it's the hustle. It's his way of, in his mind, like my dad, similar things. It wasn't that they wanted anything from us. But a dad's always gonna think they know more than a son. I mean, I look at my son and I probably do the same thing to him. And he's more up on a bunch of ---- than me. He's 14 and he's locked in with a bunch of ---- that I don't understand. And he's got good insights. I need to listen to him a little bit more. But I think I know everything because I'm the older you know? And he won't listen in some regards. And I'm sure we didn't listen to our dads on a lot of ----. But the grace of all of it is that we realize that we are standing on their shoulders. Regardless. Their imperfections. I think about my dad all the time and I will say, and I wrote a ton of songs pissed off of my dad. And just shredded him. That was one of good Charlotte's things was like, I hate my dad. He left. The narrative wasn't on the nose or a bit more subtle? Both. Everything went back to that. Because it was really painful when he left. How old were you? He came and went from like 13 to 15. But he was really 13 when he bounced. So you were old enough to know. Old enough for it to be painful. And then all the real trouble started with like, we were always moving. I mean the money trouble started way before that. But I can't even imagine how you could support four kids. I feel like I can barely support two kids and I do pretty well. I think four kids working two or three jobs painting houses on the side, doing this. He was working his ass off and trying to be married. Again, no one gives credit to doesn't matter. Our wives are amazing. I love my wife. She's amazing. And we've been together for 18 years. Keeping that together is work. It's just hard. It's just the nature of relationships. So you have to give that credit and space and room to be imperfect and be honest about it. They couldn't back then. But the grace of all of it is that we are, no matter the imperfections, no matter the mistakes, we're standing on their shoulders. If they didn't exist, we don't exist. I love that you use the word grace. It's grace. Give ourselves that grace and also it's that gratitude that we have grace and gratitude. And to remember that, that we're standing on their shoulders, it's easy, I think, for us who had complicated relationships to be pissed or remain pissed. But I love that you keep going back there. I think that's so important. And that's something I've learned to do thankfully, because it wasn't always that way. But just keep going back to the grace part. You love me with all your capacity. You had flaws. Things were messed up. But like you said, when we started talking, dude, more and more, around every corner, I'll say to myself in these little quiet moments, that's just like my dad. Just like my dad. I do that just like my dad, right? Same exact thing. The thing that I'll say strikes me when I think about you and my idea of you. Because I have my idea of you and then there's really you. How we're perceived is real. It's important. And then who we really are is partly that. And then there's our actual real life that no one can know but us and our family. The idea that you got into a huge fight with your dad in 2020 says to me how much you love him. That you would get into a horrible fight. Because when you think about the person you are, that you've built yourself to be in the world. And I can only imagine how much work and relentless drive it's taken to start from here and get to here. You didn't start here in this world and get here. You started here. You went from there to here. A lot of people start here and get here. They're born in the opportunity and they build up. And I'm not even mad at that. I hope my kids do that. Absolutely. But to go from there to here is incredible. And it's the hero's story, the one we want to believe in, that anything's possible. To build your life up to a place where you have built a global brand that people look to for inspiration. They look to it for all kinds of things. That you could still get into a horrible fight with your father over some you know. It means that you're still a human being that wants a relationship with their dad and loves their dad enough to stay in at a dinner and get into a fight. And it turns into a big thing. I understand how painful that is and how horrible that is. But to me, I hear a story that I love because I go, oh, he didn't just say f*** off. I'm out. And my people will blah blah. There's plenty of people that are just completely isolated themselves from the world and their past. We have to leave the things in our past that damage us. I had to learn how to do that. There was plenty of bad things in my past. But then there were some things that I needed to hold on to and heal and repair. And that was my job. It wasn't going to be their job because they didn't have the capacity to do that. But the fact that in 2020, that was only four years ago, you are you then. Successful guy at the top of his game and you're still getting into a fight with your dad at Thanksgiving or Christmas. That means I love my dad and I want a relationship with him and I'm trying. No matter if you guys worked it out or not, that's not the point. I actually think that he and you both felt the love and you just didn't get the time to work out some of the things. But a lot of that gets worked out in the other life. Man, I appreciate that, man. Thank you. That's really beautiful. That's amazing, bro. A lot of people wouldn't even care. It's like you're the same way. It's like, that's my old man and I feel like this thing was messed up and why did you do that? I don't understand. And we had it out. He was like, well, but I blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, yeah, but then this happened. He's like, yeah, but I only did it because of this. I'm like, yeah, but you see it affected this thing and it ultimately now that I think about it, it got to a good place. He was like, I understand. We still ended with, all right, I love you. Love you too, which was good, man. But I never looked at it like that. But the fact that you both were there doing it says it all to me because a lot of people and you've seen it too, I'm sure. They build these halls of mirrors and they don't want to let anyone in for real. Then they're not a human being anymore. You can't even really talk about anything because they don't want to feel anything. I understand it but I think sometimes with success we don't want to feel real life anymore. We almost were escaping the pain of life and we thought success was the answer. Success is just our idea of success, whatever that is. All the byproducts of it, we could line the walls with it but it doesn't do anything. I think success is more of a... Ultimately it doesn't. We think it does. It doesn't mean it's not nice but that's not the point of the success. The success is, can I climb that mountain? I think I want to. I think I can and then we start trying and we do it. All the byproducts of that success are the fruits we get to enjoy sometimes but when the fruits become the focus and not the mountain. Man, yes. Dude, I always say that I love that you're saying this. Let me just back up for a second because this is a big thing I think about success and a lot of times when you run into people, whether they're older people, our age, younger, even sometimes teenagers when we talk to them, try your best not to focus on the shiny thing. The shiny thing will come. The money will come, the watch, the this, whatever it is in your head like, oh, I want to buy that thing, it's important, that'll come but focus on being really good at something and focus on putting in the work and making that decision, I'm going to put in the work, I'm going to grind, I'm going to keep my blinders on but I love that you use the analogy about a mountain because I say that all the time and I'm constantly reminding myself of the importance of this idea that I'm always in my head, even as we're climbing the mountain, I see it up there, man, that's at peak, that's summit, let's go for it. You bring everybody with you and everyone works hard and then the moment I feel like it's starting to get close, I always say, mountain changed, there it is up there, now we got to keep going up there, like you never arrive and I always tell younger people, the best part about success is the ethic behind it, the work ethic behind it, like that's the stuff that will never go away, it's not the shiny that you could buy, it's nice, I love it and I'm grateful, you know what I mean? But it's not, you realize once you get a little older, like that really matters is the stuff that's just in front of you at that time, like kids and family and you know what I mean? And your desire or your willingness to work, like yeah, let's put in the work, let's put some calluses here, you know? How do you manage the big life, the work life, right? In my opinion, we can never stop trying, we just have to keep going, let's see how fast we can fly this thing, let's see how high we can climb, and I see you doing that, I love all the stuff you do, as an entrepreneur, I just think you're running the game, I really love, I love how you move and also to have limits, I think, set on where you started, everybody's gonna put a limit on that. Then you beat those limits, go from wrestling to movies, then they're gonna put a limit on that, what kind of movies can you do? Then you're gonna beat those limits, then you move into entrepreneurial endeavors, they're gonna limit that, you can only do this, you can only do that, you're gonna beat all those, so that's the big life, it just keeps growing if you keep it. How do you manage that life with the small life? Fatherhood, family, and how do you keep that calm and still and small while managing the hurricane of the big life? For sure, that's a great question, I try to and I'm curious to know how you feel about this, I try to keep the small life the closest thing to me, because there was a time where I was running and gunning where I was on the road 230 days out of the year, whether it's wrestling, or even when I transitioned into movies, I had this idea that, well, let me go get established, let me get in that town for a month, then family can come out, and then you can be out for a month, family goes back home, and then I'll come back home, but this clear separation, I don't know where that came from, protection, probably yeah, or thinking, no, this is what I need, but you realize, oh no, well the thing that I really need is I need my anchor, and that's the stuff that I love, keep that close, because the stuff, the small stuff, our kids babies, family relationships, that's what really matters, that the small life allows big life to really happen I feel like, and I feel like the small life allows you and I to I always say, I feel like we get lucky, we get to fly the spaceship, around the universe, and look cool, you know, but there's a lot of other people who you don't see who are building this thing, and help you build it and when it comes back down to ground zero, then they all come in there, and they get behind the, you know, they get inside the rocket, and they help everything that they need to do so, I try and do that with small life, I keep small life super close now, so when I go on the road, if we're shooting different location, brother, we're all going yeah, the dog, it's the only way it works everybody, yep, right you too, you protect them from the things that I feel I need to protect them from, but they have to share in all of it, so that they have they feel ownership of it, and they don't feel isolated from me, like, that's right like, I don't want them to feel on the outside, I don't want them to feel I want them to feel like they're on the inside, even down to making decisions, yes, like hey, should we go do this, that's right, then it's an adventure for everyone, that's right, you know, so I think it's, I love that, it's including them so they feel like, because you could easily be the one to make all the calls, make the decision, or pass it off to somebody else they'll do it, you guys don't have to worry about it but I love that you include them too as well, yeah as you move forward what's the thing for you that allows you to, like, if you look at that wall, and the wall is an opportunity and it looks like that wall, it looks like there's no cracks in it, but you and I could see one little crack there, and we're going to go up to that crack and we're going to rip that thing open, we're going to, we're going to pull our nails off just trying to make that crack bigger and bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, so now we could step through that thing, like, what is the thing for you that keeps that mindset for you, like, why, because you and I talked about a lot of people who we know who became successful wanted to separate themselves, found comfort in the success didn't want to with real life I don't like real life so I like the success and keeping it here what's allowed you to maintain that? Hunger never arrive it, by the way, when I got cut from the CFL, the Canadian football league, I had 7 bucks in my pocket, I had like a 5 a 1 and some change and I always like to say, at least I rounded up I was optimistic, like, hey I got 7 bucks and we were evicted, like you guys we were evicted when I was 14 same age same, right? so, dude, that that fucks you up and in my mind, and I know it's crazy chat here, but there's times when I think I'm right around the corner from getting evicted man, like I can't stop it's crazy, my wife is like, what are you talking about? we're good, chill mine too, man, it's funny Lauren's the same way I'm sure as Nicole no, we're good we're good thank God for wives, man good wives how do you hold on to that? what's allowed you to hold on to that? the drive? my brother our dream together, we're best friends and we talk all day long, we text all day long and we're dreamers and I want to be more than what people, I think when you grow up with a low self esteem, a low self worth you never lose a little part of that and you always have a chip on your shoulder to be more than what people think you can be, so I'm always building these businesses with the mind that we can scale them and that they can be bigger than what anyone thinks and that we can, you know and I think it's just the two of us, that's our dream it's to keep climbing any mountain we can find we're relentless the two of us though, I really feel like he's my, we're twins, so we were born together, we survived together and I really do, and then our families you know, I want to impress my wife, I want to impress her family, and I want to continue to build a place in the world and contribute something that's positive, that's meaningful that's why I love what you do everything you do behind it is an undertone of positivity and get back up aim up, try that's right and you're teaching people how to be disciplined a lot of us didn't know how to do that, we didn't grow up in families where fitness was even a thing so it took me two decades to learn, I'm just getting my fitness down where I'm dedicated to it took me two decades and eating, you do that, you're teaching people a lot of things, but it's the idea that it's worthwhile to try to be the best you can be and you set your own limit not anyone else so I think you're a great example of someone who's bucked against every limit that's been put on them whether it's been said or not some things are said, some things are implied some people assume and you just go right through it and that's the examples we need, and we live in a world where there's not a lot of those examples, it's a pretty negative place sometimes and we look around and we find models, especially guys who do we look out to and see who's trying to be a dad who's trying to be in a relationship, at least they're trying and they're putting their best foot forward that's what we need by the way, it's in the power of trying because that's how important it is, especially for our students, but also, there's so much noise out there and it's negative and it's judgmental and it's all the that is very sludgy, but I always admire you, your brother and everyone out there male, female, who bucks at the system, who doesn't want to be pretzeled, who even if somebody say, no you can only do it like this and somebody goes, well, that I want to do it like this, and don't tell me what to do this is what I feel so I can appreciate that, and especially how noisy things are today and how easy it is for people to just jump on and judge I always appreciate and admire the people who go, well I'm going to do this for me I'm going to be me I'm going to be a good person, I'm going to be positive and I'm going to try, like you said, like I'm going to give this thing a shot. And then who can do it elegantly, and presidentially, like who can stay buttoned up, not win and then chop everyone's head off. That's right. That's the thing is you do it with elegance you keep tight that's what I look at, when I look at how do I want to win, who's a good winner, who wins and we can all actually celebrate with them versus them, you know spike the ball in our face and that's the thing that I love about how you move through the world, whether it's putting out products movies, football leagues, back to wrestling all the things, who can beat every wall who can continue to rise and then do it elegantly and keep their tight and move through the world with some class because I think that's an old school thing that we've lost a lot of now, people just make spectacles of everyone and I look for the guys that I want to follow because they keep it tight, they move presidentially they move with class I look to those guys you're one of the examples I always use how do you move through the world win, lose or draw keep it together, keep it tight, move elegantly through the world, that's a skill that takes practice and it takes real self discipline, self control, self esteem, so I want to talk about Papatui that was one of the big reasons I wanted to talk to you, so before you go, I want to tell you, I love Papatui I'm now using four products I'm a big on skin care and like smelling good and all that stuff and I feel like there isn't especially with guys, it's like no one talks about it, girls talk about it all the time they have all these options and products and you usually end up using their wife's stuff and you put this out and I use the tattoo stick big time, much needed someone needed to make this for tattoos, I have it on right now and then I use this all day yes, the eye roller it's got a cooling gel in there it's also got a cooling ball in there too it's like my zen I have it in the car I'll just be like it'll zen you it'll also bring down some puffiness you have but dude, really quickly you bring up about conversation one of the reasons why I wanted to create Papatui was us as dudes, we could talk about our favorite cars movies, booze, relationships mental health working out, cheap meals all that, every dude who's come up to me in the past especially when it comes to skin care they'll be like what are you whispering and it dawned on me wait a second there's a white space out here not only in the market for a product but also an opportunity to encourage let's be open about what we put on our skin, we get one body, one life one skin, let's take care of it so I love that it's been encouraging this conversation with dudes, which is important because you were saying, I know I go to use my wife's stuff, you do as well we all do, so I wanted to make this line where it was the ingredients were great I didn't know this, I became a student of the game there's a lot of bad parabens and sulfates and all that that are in products that we normally love and use, I won't mention who they are you can straight up get cancer from using it it's crazy so we removed all that from Papatui clean, effective and it was important like you, because we never arrive and if you've come from I always say if you're hungry, you'll never be full so it was important to me just to keep everything under $10 that's one of the reasons I love it because everyone can get it I hate telling people, hey you should do this and then it's like $50 or $60 any guy can go out and get it and the face also the face cream that's my morning face lotion now it's fantastic so have confidence with this stuff the toner is the magic, that's the magic it's the secret weapon dude, toner is the secret weapon because your skin looks good thank you brother yours too I know we gotta go, but thank you for this but let me say this aside this has been a real pleasure man I really appreciate sitting with you and chopping this stuff up in my life I don't have opportunities like this a lot where I'm talking about stuff with my old man somebody who understands and talking about success and the craziness of fame and all the stuff that we talked about so I really appreciate this time I'm happy to do it again come back when we have more time thanks for coming all this way I think the important thing for people listening it doesn't matter who you are the human being that had to get from there to here had to go through a whole lot of and you've proved that it's possible if it's anything that you want to do give it a shot and bet on yourself give it a shot because even in the shot in the effort of it even if it doesn't shake out the way you want it to shake out there's some magic that happens in the effort and that you walk away and if you don't get the thing that you wanted to get it may lead you down another path where you go, look at this thing maybe this is what my path is first time I met Lionel Richie he's getting on his plane I'm getting off my plane and I see him and I'm walking and I'm like, that's Lionel Richie big fan as we all are give him some love and I had just saw a documentary on him and the end of the documentary I repeated it back to him he got some advice from George Burns and it so moved me because we're in the entertainment business I know it's going to move you too and he said George what's the best advice you could give me I need to get something from you and George looked at him and said stay booked kid stay booked and I love that because I feel like even though you may not be running and gunning 300 dates a year I'm not wrestling 250 dates a year but we're still looking to stay booked and doing that thing we're doing everything we possibly can we're doing everything we can in the capacity we have to do it and trying our best and keeping our feet moving and that's it no days off unless it's with the family and you're spending that time if I'm not working I'm with my family same thing I got another story I'll tell you man so anyway thank you for watching Artist Friendly if you liked this episode please make sure you hit the like button you follow the channel and please share it with your friends we appreciate the support that is why this show exists because you listen to it thank you guys and we'll see you next time