Famous Winemaker Rajat Parr Blind Tastes Against Protegé Wine Expert

Today I'm blind tasting with Rajat Par. If you've ever heard of him. Today I am blind tasting with Brenna Quigley. Brenna is a geologist based here in Santa Barbara. She's been working with some winemakers and growers here in Santa Barbara, in Napa, also in France, in Burgundy, in Jura, Loire. So she has a pretty deep understanding of wine and of course soil. She's an expert in soil. I met her maybe like five years ago and became friends. And then the deal was she teaches me about soil and I teach her about blind tastings. Rajat is a good friend of mine and a mentor of mine. He makes wine. He tastes wine beautifully. I've heard on occasion he can be pretty good. He's exceptional. It'll be really fun today to taste two wines blind with her. I'm terrified. I think he'll be great. They should be pretty easy layups if she doesn't kind of overthink it. This seems a little rigged, if we're being honest. It seems like slightly, you know, skill levels are slightly off. I picked two wines for Brenna today. The white is a white burgundy from Merceau from a producer called Brenna Bonnet, 2017. A new wine to me also, but excuse me to taste the wine. She's very deeply connected with the burgundy. She is planning to move there eventually. And so it'll be fun to kind of taste a new producer with her. If you don't call her Merceau, she could maybe call her Jura. She could maybe even call it from one of our wines, American wine. And then we have a Jean-Louis Dutreve Fleury Beaujolais, 2016. Which is a wine she will hopefully nail in five seconds because she knows Jean-Louis Dutreve. We've been there together. She knows the vineyard. She knows the wine. So should be layups. All right. Well, this is just like blind tasting we did like five years ago. Same thing. Yeah, but this is like layups. They're like, you know, grapes you drink and wines we drink. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. Feels a little higher stakes. Well, it's just crossbow. Okay. Do we get any hints? Do we get any starters? You know, I think like for me, if I was going to redo the blind tasting program for someone, I would always encourage them to taste the red wines first. Okay. My reason being, as you know, you brew burgundy, you always taste the reds first and then the whites after because the whites usually have higher acidity. But your palate will be easier to come off a red and then the white is refreshing. And I think the red will be easier for you to recognize to start with. So, you know, I mean, and you don't have to go through the whole grid or anything else. You just smell the wine, taste the wine. I don't have a grid to go off. Great. Well, then you, you know. I'm hoping this will be a learning experience. Yeah. You know, I mean, it's just simple. It's just color, viscosity, and any other hints you can see from the color itself. Okay. Usually color tells you a lot. Mm-hmm. And color, clarity, all these things can tell you a lot about the wine. Okay. Oftentimes, the taste is only like the final. Okay. I don't know if we've actually ever tasted like this before, this formally. Yeah, no, not blind tasting what we've done. We did, you know, initially when we were talking about rocks and soils. We did a lot of tasting. We did like comparisons of, you know, different soils, and so in this case, there's only one white, one red. You know, and I can also give you like geological hints, very, very vague hints. You know, a question like, are these two wines from a similar soil type? Like that. I'm not going to tell you if it is or not. Right. But if you ask me that question, I can tell you. Okay. But I'm pretty sure that you'll pretty much be able to tell what soil type it's from because it's, yeah. Okay. All right. So starting with the red, I can't help but smell it right away. I'll pretend like I didn't. Okay, so it's very light and also a little bit cloudy. I'm not going to use technical terms. Well, cloudy is good. I don't know them, but yeah. Slight haze, they call it slight haze. Haze, yeah. Yeah. A little hazy makes me think that it is going to be very light bodied. It makes me think that it's going to be from a- And it's not fine and filtered because- Yeah. It'll be of a natural, had a natural life. There we go. I mean, just from smelling it, it's super light and fresh, so it makes me think that it's, one, was handled gently, but also maybe it was from kind of a cooler region is my hunch. And also sometimes you can mention like, not that it's important, but thin skin or thick skin variety. Yeah, yeah. And just the color is clearly it's a thin skin variety. Something thin skinned. It smells beautiful. It smells super fresh, crunchy. It has that, just from the aroma, it has that, it's a difficult thing to say because I don't want it to come off the wrong way, but that way where it smells kind of like fresh water, you know, like fresh flowing water, which I love. I already think I like it. Good. That's important. Any specific fruit you get on the nose? You know, not super specific, but red, bright, you know, maybe underripe red, cherry, strawberry. Yeah. Any influence of any oak? You get any vanilla? I don't get any vanilla. I don't get any, I don't get anything other than like freshness, fresh brightness. Any kind of secondary aromas of like, you know, what are like smoky, peppery, leathery, anything outside of non-fruit aromas? I think that when I say the kind of wateriness, it refers to like, to me it feels like a very gentle minerality. Like it's this very smooth, soft minerality. Okay. Taste it. Hmm. Super bright acidity, super crunchy, lively. Definitely feels naturally made. It has a lot of good energy to it. A lot of life, a lot of movement. Hmm. Super light, pretty, bright. Soil type? Think of the grape, go straight for the soil. Yeah, straight for the soil. What could it be? It's kind of acting different than I thought it would, so I'm going back and forth. But I think the most prominent thing as far as the texture of the wine that sticks out to me is that it does have, despite it having sort of a breadth to it, it still has a straight line, a linearity. Mm-hmm. So it's really tricky that it has this kind of straight line with also all of this grace. It's not hard in any way, but it's still. What are the potential grape varieties it could be? Potential grape varieties it could be? I could be wrong, but I don't think that it's Pinot Noir. It could be Pinot Noir, though. I mean, just thinking of light red grapes. It could be Pinot Noir, it could be Trousseau. It could, I don't know, maybe be Gamay, but probably not. What is the three differences between Trousseau, Gamay, and Pinot Noir? Which two are most similar? Which is the outlier? Which is the outlier of those three grapes? Regardless of terroir, not thinking about where they would come from, just the grapes. That's probably a question I should know. Outlier would be, I guess, maybe Pinot Noir? Yeah, Pinot Noir. Because Pinot Noir usually have more tannin and usually would have maybe a little barrel influence. Yeah, yeah, a little more serious. And would only be hazy if it's old. Yeah. Is it an old wine or a young wine? I think it's young, despite its haze and kind of rich, you know, almost rusty color. Okay, so then we're down to Trousseau and Gamay now. Trousseau and Gamay, which is higher acidity? Trousseau? No, Gamay. Gamay. Gamay is quite a bit more acidic. Trousseau is usually a low-acid grape, unless it's in a rainy vintage or that, yeah. Okay. And did you get any whole bunch in there, or you think it's... Yeah, I think there's definitely some whole cluster in there. The question is limestone or granite? Mm-hmm. My first feeling was that it had sort of the looseness of that sort of loose, light, ethereal texture of granite, despite having a linearity that maybe was also coming from the acidity, because it's so high in acid. Yeah. So the texture to me is that kind of like sandy, decomposed something, maybe granite, in the context of being super lifted and high in acid. Okay, keep going down the road, and then it's maybe slightly outlier in the place. Vintage is slightly outlier because it's not a... Okay. It's young, but it's not that young. Mm-hmm. Is that right? I mean, in that region, yeah, you could drink the wine from the same year. Mm-hmm. Of course, that beautiful minerality and lightness and bright acidity. I mean, if it's a vintage, I would guess 14 Beaujolais, because it's absolutely beautiful and I haven't tasted... 14 Beaujolais and what appellation? Fleury. 14 Fleury. Okay, let's go to the next one. Okay. Ooh. Start with the color. I just dove right in. Nice. Okay, so very, very clear, very... Pale straw. Pale straw, yes, I like that. With the tinge of green, you get these very green tinge, which tells you the cool vintage or young wine. Okay, cool vintage, young wine. Yeah. And or? And or. And or, okay. And or, yeah. I was surprised how green lemon this wine was myself. Okay. Yeah. The nose? The nose has more of that sort of richness to it, especially... What kind of fruit? Lemon citrus, but there's a ripeness to it. There's a soft, maybe candied lemon to it. Yeah, like a yellow fruit, like kind of an under-ripe apricot or something like that. Mm-hmm, yeah. Any hints of barrel in there? I think there's a hint of there being more, you know, more of a hint of barrel than on the red. Yeah. There's that sort of soft give to it. Mm-hmm. It's, you know, I mean, and it's funny, because we tasted them in this order too, but there's this, like, there's this coziness to it that wasn't in the red, you know? Yeah, yeah. The red was more rock and roll. Yeah, yeah. Even, you know, even though it was beautiful in time. Full contact, the red was definitely rock and roll, yeah. But this has a cozy gentleness to it. Does it smell like more of a serious wine or kind of a glug-glug wine in your mind? I think it's more serious, despite it also being gentler. You know, it's kind of, it's gently telling you something wise. Great, now taste it and see what happens. Yeah, I love it. I think that it has this, it's very upright with those soft edges at the same time. Anything unusual on the palate? Is it like a soft texture, angular, sharp edges, round edges? You know, there's, I think there's certainly a softness, like I said, I mean, maybe this is a rabbit hole, but I think there's certainly a softness to the, you know, like I said, maybe there's some influence of, you know, a little bit of oak or, like, something that's rounding off those edges, but I don't think that that's inherent to the wine. To me, the shape of the terroir is more angular, more upright, more, I wouldn't say blocky, I wouldn't say sharp, but I would say, you know, intensity, energy, still straight lines, it's not meandering by any means. So what soil type could it be? So I would say limestone. OK, that's clear, limestone. What's the grape variety? I would say Chardonnay. OK, where from where? I would say, I think it has kind of the beauty and grace of Burgundy, and I would err towards higher up on the slope. Vintage? I'm going to throw out 17. OK, 17, upslope. Any commune you want to throw out there? I like the feeling of some of the cooler communes, but to me it feels higher up on the slope, so it could be a range of them. Just throw a commune out there. Saint-Aubin. It could be Saint-Aubin. I don't think it's Saint-Aubin. What do you think it is if it's not Saint-Aubin? Haute Cote or Saint-Romain, I guess. Saint-Romain, OK, great. OK, so you called the first red, you said Fleury, 14. Any producer you want to throw out there? I think if I know the wine, it's Dutreve, which is funny. OK. Yeah, 16. So 16. Well, it's a difficult vintage. He had a lot of loss in the hill. It was frost, I guess. It got frosted in 16, so he lost. This was the only estate bottling, everything together, so slightly outlier because the grapes were quite bruised. That's so fascinating. So yeah, pretty spot on. And the other wine, we've never had this together, but right on, 17, White Burgundy. It's Merceau. Oh! Clos de Cromer from Bernabéau. Cool, we've never had this together. Never had it together, yeah. No, this is a newer producer in our world. Good job. Yeah, pretty much nailed them both. Village, very rocky soil. Yeah, we've got to take a look at Clos de Cromer. It's a village wine. But Ludi, as is a lot of Ludis in Merceau. So bravo. Nicely done. Layup. Wow. OK. Well, those weren't too hard, but hopefully what I have for you will at least make you think. I don't know if they're layups, but... I don't expect any layups, don't worry. Yeah, no favors. No favors. OK. Oops, sorry. So for the white, I picked Chardonnay Rose by Sylvain Patai, which is a wine and a grape that Raj and I have talked about many times, and the work Patai is doing is something we're both really interested in in terms of terroir and very bold farming. So it's a meaningful thing for both of us. He could actually call that from the Jura. I think the Patai style could maybe lend itself to that, especially because it's not a super classic Burgundian wine. I think he could... I think he'll... I think he'll err towards the Jura, though. And for the red, I chose a Trousseau by Stéphane Tissot in the Jura that was aged in amphora. You know, the amphora's a little bit of a sneak attack, but it's something that I know is super meaningful to him. It's the wine that we tasted together in the Jura last year. So if he... I think that he'll for sure call Trousseau for the Jura. I can't imagine him saying anything else. I think he'll nail it. No cheating. Uh, red wine. Kind of a deep red. It's... Yeah, it's slightly translucent. Looks clear. Uh, rim... Slight rim variation. Not much. Viscosity seems medium. Slight haze. Not too hazy. A little bit. Alcohol seems moderate. Moderate plus. Smells, uh... Red fruits. Slightly kind of a pine cone. Slightly herbal. Maybe a little bit of jasmine, oolong. Maybe some stem inclusion. Bright red fruit. Seems pretty primary. Little kind of a candied note. Seems pretty ripe. No indication of oak, but I do smell some kind of warmth, alcohol kind of flavors. Yeah, thin-skinned variety. A lot of fruit. Like, fruit dominates the nose, but young. Acidity medium. A lot of fruit. Kind of a little hot on the finish. It's balanced with a little bit of heat on the finish. Easy drinking wine. Low tannin. Length is medium, medium minus. Thoughts on the terroir? Yeah, it seems like, um, some bitterness in the finish. Seems like an old-world wine. Seems like it's definitely from a kind of a rocky, stony place. See, the tannins are, like, very suave, but you get these edges, so the wine goes sideways. It's not as linear. It's more side, more kind of, you know, a little bottom-heavy for me. Mm-hmm. Granite. Gamay. Morgon. Yeah, vintage. I don't know. Yeah, rustic tannins. It's not pinot. You get a little bit of kind of, well, it's Gamay. I'll stick to Gamay, Beaujolais, Morgon. It's a little hot, maybe 17. Maybe, it could be 18. Any thoughts on the winemaking? Anything that sticks out about it? Seems like it's carbonic. It's a little, it's a little bready on the nose. Yeah, well, maybe it's a little older. It's not 16. Definitely feel... Do you want me to sneak you some more? Yeah, sure. No cheating. We'll move the other way. I mean, it has a foyard. Okay. And a foyard light. I totally see what you mean. Wow, that smells different than the first. Miss me or less? Could it be pinot noir? Yeah, there is some tannin. Salty. Mm-hmm. Let's talk terroir. Let's go back to the terroir thing, actually. You said width? Yeah, I think it's got like a, yeah, I think it's more serious than a Gamay. The way the wine is behaving, I think the terroir kind of has to take you there. I don't think you can follow the winemaking. There are some whole bunches, maybe. It seems very fruity at the front and seems like tannin at the finish. This is the granite. But then I had a second glass you poured me, and it clearly is limestone. Right. Is it hard limestone, or is it wide limestone? Hard limestone. Yeah, it's not board. What about it is moving it sideways? I don't know. It has a very jagged edge on the mouth. So like, because instantly when I said maybe it's a fruit vintage. I mean, it could be a 17 Red Burgundy from, you know, a producer who is making low-intervention wines which are like, you know, stand back and watch it instead of like going in and attacking. In the beginning, it had this kind of very rustic note, and then as the air is kind of opening up and... You're saying all of the things. You're like dancing around it. It's kind of awesome. I mean, it's becoming more serious as you taste more and more of it because it's like... Yeah, it's not a layup. Let's put it that way. It's not a layup. I don't know. I've never tasted wine so long. It takes me like two seconds usually. Go back to the shape. What would Paul Wasserman say about the shape? He would probably like... It does go sideways, but it's deep. It's not hollow. It's kind of backwards. Yeah. Where does that take you? It just seems like a wine with a lot of fruit, moderate tannin, moderate complexity. You want to drink it. You want to age it. You want to drink it. You want to age it. Yeah, it's more like Pinot than it is Gamay in a way. Gamay wouldn't have these jagged edges. I would say 17... 17... Producer. Village. It's burgundy. I thought initially, like after that, I thought it could be Marseillais. Then I'm like, yeah, it's not like... It's not that jagged. But maybe it is Marseillais. Maybe it is Sylvain Pate. Kind of that kind of wine. Marseillais. 17. Okay. White wine. Looks pretty clear. Kind of yellow. Not much. A little bit green, but more kind of... Yellow. Viscosity looks moderate. Viscosity. Pear. Honey. There's some kind of primary and secondary aromas on the nose. A little bit of kind of that leazy, cheesy character. Yeah, cheese rind. Pear. A little bit of honey. More oxidative than reductive. No influence of oak on the nose or the palate. I mean, probably maybe old. Acid, moderate, moderate plus. Length. Wow. This wine has great length. Like, wow, I can still taste it. Like, really great length. Limestone clay. Creamy texture. Really superb wine. Like, really high quality. A wine you could drink now, age five years, maybe longer. Low sulfur. If not, there's no sulfur. Jura. Yeah, Jura Chardonnay. 16. Jura Chardonnay, 16. Producer? I don't know. Maybe La Bay. Pretty fascinating. The red is the Jura. Trousseau Amphora. Trousseau Amphora from Tissot. Wow. 17. Amazing. Which I totally felt all of the things you were saying about it. And the white is the Petit Chardonnay Rose, which is also in the Jura. That's hilarious. 14. Yeah. Wow, I've had that wine like 10 times. This seems sort of like familiar. Uh-huh. And I love the Jura connection, because there's Chardonnay Rose in the Jura as well. Yeah, this is a very hard wine, too. That's a hard wine. No, it's an amazing wine. I love this wine. 14.5% alcohol. You get the heat. I was so confused. Why is there heat? The heat was weird. Where does the heat come from? The breadiness of it was weird. I think had I known how bready it was going to be, I wouldn't have gone that direction. Fascinating. This wine is great. Yeah, this is killing it. It tastes like Jura wine. It doesn't taste like bourguignon. It doesn't. It's so cool. I didn't go easy on you. No, no, but that, this is, yeah. I mean, if I'd call that white bourguignon, it'd be cheating, because not many people make white bourguignon like that. Yeah. Two years, all of ours, most, like, I think the sulfur, the bottling, right? Uh, I'm, I think so. No. Yeah. I don't think I've ever had a Trousseau at 14.5% alcohol. It was a weird series of events. Also, also, also an Alfora. Yeah. So de-stemmed, hand de-stemmed, put it in an Alfora, and just left. Mm-hmm. For, I don't know how many days after asking. Yeah, cool. Thank you.