Forgiveness at Work ｜ John Ortberg & Pat Gelsinger

Being angry about something to start with and sort of like, God, how did you let that happen? Yeah, right. You know, and you're really questioning his purpose and his motivation in that. And again, after I got over it for two years, it was like two or three more years until it's like, okay, God, you know, you really might have a plan. All right, we're now rolling. I'm in an undisclosed location. We live in a world of hurting people. We all hurt. That's natural. Forgiveness is supernatural. I'm with Pat Gelsinger. I cannot tell you where we are or else I'd have to kill you. But we were talking about forgiveness. Pat, as you probably know, is the CEO of Intel. One of the most visible and pressured challenges in the world right now. He's also pretty much my wife, Nancy's boss. She heads up the board of the organization she serves. And he's a big part of what we're doing, Become New. Pat's on the board of that. And I don't know, honestly, where Nancy and I would be if it weren't for you and your encouragement and your heart over these last years. So I am, as many people are, very deeply in debt with Pat. But we've been talking about forgiveness. We talked about that a little bit. I think the workplace is a place where a lot of people experience hurt, disappointment. But we don't always talk a lot about how do you forgive and how do you reconcile in workplace value. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. Oh, very good. And thanks, John. And you and Nancy just play a special place in the hearts of Linda and I. And we get great joy out of seeing both what Nancy's doing with TBC. And I like to joke that I hired the more talented Orkberg. That's no joke. That is not a joke at all. And TBC, transforming the Bay with Christ, an organization that I started. Now it's almost 10 years ago that we've been on the journey of how do we transform the Bay for Christ? My leadership role at Intel, two and a half years now, is the CEO of this iconic company that we're working to build back, to restore Intel and this iconic company. I like to say the founders of Intel, the trinity of the Silicon Valley, with Bob Noyce, the inventor of the integrated circuit, Moore's Law, Gordon Moore, and Andy Grove, the iconic management leader. But it's also about rebuilding the industry, rebuilding its role in Western manufacturing. So as I like to say, this is a God-sized task. It's way bigger than I can do or any other individual. But relationships in the workplace, right? You can have brilliant leaders, but I now have 100,000, 110,000 people that work as part of Intel. And their role at Intel is very much one where it's all about team. We need to continue the team aspects. And in that, it's all about people, right? And the personal relationships as part of it. And I know myself that, hey, I was pushed out of the company 13 years ago. Tell that story a little bit. You started at Intel when you were how young? I was 18 years old. I joke that I went through puberty at Intel. I started so young with the company. And this idea of becoming the CEO early in my career, maybe 23, 24, and I wrote my mission statement. And I wrote down, become the CEO of Intel. It was an audacious statement. When I wrote it, it was like, that ain't going to happen, right? Not in the wildest things. But 10 years later, it became sort of this driving force for me of, could I say that? What if I said that? As I saw Gordon, Andy, and Bob in the industry, wow, maybe someday. I could be there. Yeah. And then after another 10 years, it's like, I'm going to make this true. It moved from a crazy thing that was sort of just driving my own development to something that I really thought could be true. And then at about 30 years with the company, the then CEO, Paul, made it clear he did not want me part of the future of the company. I threatened him. And I wasn't part of his team in that regard. And when I was pushed out of the company, I consider it sort of like a Joseph or a Moses kind of experience where my vision was dead. You know, this is something I was dreaming of for 30 years. You know, I was passionate about it. You wanted that with every cell in your body. Absolutely. And it was just working and driving. And then when, in fact, when you started this series on forgiveness, you know, and Paul, the CEO at the time, you know, I said, I have to go back to his grave because I'm not done with forgiveness in him. And it was one of those where what was meant for evil worked out for good because it began a 10-year, 11-year journey for me of one getting over it. The first two years being out of the company, I was just angry. Two years. Yeah, two years. So if you think you're supposed to get over something immediately. It takes a while. It does take a while. And the deeper the hurt, the longer it takes. You can't microwave that. And, you know, after two years, it's sort of like, okay, I'm really getting on with my career, my personal development. But also when you lose your vision, right? You know, that dream that you have. Then you got to go say, you know, was I successful because of Intel or was I successful because of me? And I got, and I got after my own personal development, new skills to develop new culture and environment. And I went on. So that's where it kind of pushed you to grow in ways that you might not have if you had stayed at Intel. Today, as the CEO of Intel, after that 11 years outside of the company, which by the way, is almost to the day, the time that Steve Jobs was out of Apple. Wow. Right. And it's sort of like, wow, that's sort of a coincidence. It takes you 11 years to get over it. And then you're ready to come back. And when you come back, I came back more mature, you know, more humble. It wasn't about me, right anymore. It was very much about the job, about the role that I could play. And, you know, as you said, when I first started listening to the series, I realized I'm going to go back to Paul's grave. Can I ask, what was it like when you went there? Have you done that yet? I haven't done it yet, but I've now convicted as part of this series that I too have some forgiveness that I haven't finished in my heart around Paul and being pushed out. And it worked out to be extraordinary for me in my own development. But at the time, I was just foul about this. And it was really hard. But it began a series of personal developments. And now I'm doing this job for the right reason. Before, I would have been doing it for my own reason. You know, now I'm doing it really because God is placing me in this position of leadership. Then I would have done it of my own motivation. I found in situations like that, the forgiveness thing is kind of messy because it's like, they didn't want me. They may have done things wrong, said things wrong, been in error. But also, there could have been sensitivities inside of me and things where I wasn't. Has it been that kind of journey for you as you've looked at it? Absolutely. Because, you know, I was just angry about things. You know, it was an injustice that was done. Yeah. And it was bad for the company. It was bad for me. Bad for the company. I mean, the earth was misaligned. The universe was broken. And then when I started to get into my own development, it's like, man, I had so much to work on on me. This was so good for the skills that I started to develop. You know, realizing the things I needed to work out of my character. And I know, Pat, for you, God is just a huge, huge, huge part of your life. And faith is. How did you talk to God about that? Did you have a sense of God speaking or interacting with you? How did the faith side interact with the forgiveness process? Yeah. And it was very much where, you know, being angry about something to start with. And it's like, God, how did you let that happen? Yeah. Right. You know, and you're really questioning of his purpose and his motivation in that. And again, after I got over it for two years, it was like two or three more years until it's like, OK, God, you know, you really might have a plan. You might know what you're doing after all. Maybe so. And then when I was given the opportunity to become the CEO of VMware. Yeah. Right. Moved from EMC to the East Coast, came back to the Bay Area. And that was the moment that TBC began. Wow. Because then it was like, OK, you know, I'm going to be the CEO of a big software company named VMware, but you have a bigger purpose in this. And it's sort of like, OK. And that was where TBC began. And as we came back to the Bay Area from the East Coast, it's like, OK, God, you really are. You do have a better plan for this. And then our kids and grandkids started to congregate around us in the Bay Area. And then, you know, Linda was thrilled as well. So then, you know, it was like, OK, God, you do have a plan for our family as well. Yeah. And then becoming CEO of a major software company. So we're like, OK, this is really good. But then Intel also went through a period where the CEO, after Paul, Brian was pushed out of the company. He was fired over, you know, some ethical and moral reasons. And then I thought, well, maybe now I get to be CEO. And the board was divided. And it was like, no, it's still not going to happen. So then there was sort of this tweak, you know, maybe, you know, I think it was like, you know, after the cupbearer in the Joseph story. Oh, yeah. He's almost going to get out of prison. And then it's another two years. That's how I felt, too. And it's like if I thought my vision was maybe going to come back to life. And I was like, no, it is really dead. Right. And then it was sort of like yet another round of forgiveness and pain was sort of brought back to the fore. And then right before Thanksgiving in 2021, the board reached out. Would you join the board? And it's sort of like a little teaser. Right. It wasn't even would you be the CEO? And then I interviewed about joining the board. And then, you know, I insisted that it had to be we shared this vision and it must be unanimous with the board. And we made that decision in January. And since then, it's just been this incredible journey where, you know, chips act in the U.S. E.U. Chips act, you know, changing the shape of the industry. Yep. This is a much bigger job than I could ever dream of. You know, I'm, you know, I met with probably 30 heads of state since I've taken this job shaped the most significant industrial policy since World War Two, you know, with the passage of the chips act in both U.S. and in Europe. That's right. God got a plan. I just didn't see what it was 11 years prior when I was pushed out of the company and letting him be in charge. But then it's also come back to say, I still got forgiveness to work on a me too. Yeah. So here's what I'd say to you. Maybe it will involve being the CEO with one of the biggest challenges in the history of the world. But we all have work to do whether or not you get a paycheck and we all face hurts and disappointments. So I'd advise you to just think about your work, whatever that looks like, volunteer, whatever it is. Where have you been hurt? Where have you had a dream that's died? Where do you find anger inside you? Be really honest with God about that. Pat, I love your honesty that it was a two year journey of just processing that anger with God and God can handle that. So take that to him and ask him for his help. And if there's any steps you need to take around forgiveness at work, maybe it's a place where you used to work or with coworkers, it's worth doing. Amen. It's worth doing. So forgive us our debts as we forgive. Thank you, Pat. Thank you, John. Love you brother. Love you. Thanks for joining us. At Become New, we want to grow spiritually one day at a time, but it's tough to do that alone. So we're offering a little more support for anyone who would like to work on putting the content into practice. You can sign up to receive a text at the end of each week in this series, asking if you completed the here's how portion for that week. If you want, you can reply to the text and let us know how it went or if you need prayer in taking those action steps. To sign up for the end of week reminder, just text the word MORE to 855-888-0444. As always, to receive the emails or video links by text, you can let us know at become new.com slash subscribe. If you're already signed up for the emails, but aren't getting them, try checking your spam folder or better yet, you can add us to your contact list. Our email address is connect at become new.com. 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