Kate Winslet on Directing Goodbye June, James Cameron's Avatar and Her Hollywood Career

I'm a person who, you know, I try and live my life as authentically as I can. I care very much about young women learning how to embrace their true selves. And I know that that journey for me was an extremely hard one. It's extraordinary. I don't think I've ever been up this high, ever, in a building. Miss Winslet, thank you so much for being here today. Thank you for having me. You have spoken about turning down roles or projects that weren't in line with your values. Has there ever been a role or a project that you regretted not signing on to? I just don't believe in regret. I don't sort of live like that. It's funny, I feel, you know, I'm such a big believer in everything happens for a reason. So no, I don't have any regrets. I don't dwell on any of those things. And I've been really fortunate that because of Titanic, quite honestly, for my entire adult life, I've had freedom of choice, which meant so much to me when I became a parent. Because it meant that I could be at peace within myself, taking lots and lots of time off, to be able to focus on being a mother. I would love to ask a mom question here, from one mom to another. You mentioned having your children in really the heat of your career. How were you able to manage your family and being a mother while having this, nurturing this successful career in Hollywood? It's the great juggle of being a working mother, you know. I mean, I don't think, quite honestly, that it was any different for me than a working mother outside of the film industry. And in many ways, probably easier for me, because I was always able to take big periods of time off. You know, never in a position where I got four weeks of holiday per year, whilst my children were having eight weeks of summer vacation, for example. So I have huge respect for working women everywhere. I read that your kids were the ones who encouraged you to pursue appearing in the upcoming Avatar film. Tell me about that. What did they say to persuade you? Well, there was very little persuading. So Jim Cameron, who I've obviously known for many, many years, he got in touch with me and he said, I think it's time we got you big and blue, were his exact words actually. And I was like, great, tell me more. And he said, I'll send you the script. And I told my children, I said, oh, I had a really exciting phone call today with James Cameron. And they said, oh my God, is he doing another Avatar? And I said, well, he might be. And they went, is he asking you to be in it? I said, well, he might be. And they said, oh mum, you have to do it, you have to do it, you have to do it. And of course, without even reading the script, I knew that it was going to be an irresistible opportunity. So exciting to get to work with Jim again, to walk into that world of Pandora that he, I just don't know how, how does his mind work like that, that he invented an entire universe? I mean, how can somebody hold that much in their own head? He's just extraordinary. Avatar is a franchise that is very much at the forefront of technological advancement in Hollywood. What were some of the technological advancements that you observed while voicing your character? Well, seeing it come to life, you know, because being part of Avatar, you know, it involves motion capture. So you are with the other actors, you are wearing motion capture suits. Every single fiber of your muscular structure on your face is captured, probably more than even a regular film camera would pick up your movements. What I think is very exciting is that the technological advancement since the first Avatar movie to now, it feels a little bit like technology has finally caught up with Jim Cameron's brain, because he imagined all of this for two and for three. And to see the films now, and even though the first movie was and will always be extraordinary, the visual impact of two and three is, it goes beyond. I mean, you can't even begin to describe. And the clarity and the crispness, you feel like you can touch it. But that is the power of performance capture. And speaking of technology, I wanted to talk about AI for a second. AI is disrupting Hollywood, AI is disrupting journalism. Do you see artificial intelligence as a creative enabler or as a threat to creativity? It's really interesting, because I don't know that I've... I think I feel so ambivalent and so fearful of the consequences, I guess, that I think I'm almost not thinking about it or engaging with it as much as I know I will be, because it will be important to engage fully. I think time is going to tell, but it definitely feels like a machine, doesn't it? And I think that's probably why I do feel fearful of it, because I just don't really know what it could become. Technology is changing the business, but the business itself also seems to be changing. We're seeing some of that play out with the Netflix Paramount, Warner Brothers moves in the news. How are these changing landscapes on the business side impacting the creative side? I think we're yet to find out. And I think that these changes will probably take several years to really bed in. I think it's a thing of kind of time will tell. I certainly am a firm believer in independent film, as I always have been, and putting together the independent movie, Lee, that I was a part of, that was released last year. There's no women allowed in the press briefing. You've got to be kidding me. You know, it was almost a decade of my life, stitching that movie together, raising the financing to get it made, and it was an exhaustive but very exhilarating experience. And so, I mean, I just certainly hope that the world of independent film is able to continue because it's been such a meaningful, special part of my life, and the majority of the actors that I grew up working with came from that world of independent filmmaking. So I certainly hope that that still has a place. I want to talk about Titanic for a second. You were catapulted seemingly overnight into the zeitgeist. You became a household name, but at the same time, you've been candid about the body shaming that you endured as part of that process. Do you get tired of folks like me asking you about that experience, or do you feel like it's your responsibility to tell your story and to tell your truth, especially for other actresses that are coming up in this genre? I mean, I think I'm a person who, you know, I try and live my life as authentically as I can, but also I care very much about young women outside of the industry, actually, learning how to embrace their true selves. And I know that that journey for me was an extremely hard one, and I think it's hard for people to share their personal stories, and I think we can never judge someone else's story because we just simply don't know. But I know that for me, I did feel extremely exposed and vulnerable, and I felt that at the time, the degree of body shaming that was happening to me as somebody who was a normal shape was way off kilter and was 100% not okay. And if that happened today, I think people would honestly file lawsuits. I really do. But I'm proud to say that I've lived through it all and that I am very proud of who I am. I'm comfortable in my own skin. In spite of how hard one, that journey, you know, for me has been in this moment in time, and I feel very, very blessed to have had an opportunity in this 50th year of my life to have directed a movie for the first time. I didn't, you know, I didn't let fear hold me back. I just decided, you know what, I really care about changing the culture around female filmmakers. You know, what am I doing if I'm not actively participating in directing films in order to try and change that culture? And so I got there and I did it, and I feel so honored to be able to talk about it. Let's talk about Goodbye, Joan, your directorial debut. Families are hard. Just please. That's why I make sure people get good advice. What drew you to directing Goodbye, Joan, at this point in your career? It's amazing, isn't it, how life kind of reveals itself to you in so many ways, and I think I had thought about directing but never in any serious way in the sense that I hadn't pursued anything, I hadn't been considering anything as a director, largely because, you know, I became a mother when I was 25. But it was when my son handed me this beautiful script that he had written on a screenwriting course that I just found myself thinking, I've got to do it, I've got to do it, because I didn't want to let it go, I didn't want to give it away, but also I wanted for him to remain a part of it. And actually, typically with screenwriters, they're not really on set. They might come and say hi to everyone at the beginning and then visit again at the end, but I didn't want that for him. I wanted him to see this story come alive and be placed in the hands of these incredible actors and for him to learn, because it doesn't matter what you're taught, it's lived experience, really, that will benefit you the most. And I love spending time with him, so selfishly it meant that I was going to get to do that as well. As a mother of two small children, what really struck me about the film was the real level of familial authenticity that the characters bring to Goodbye, June. How were you, as a director, able to extract that level of authenticity? Well, casting the film and getting that part right was obviously incredibly important, and when my son was writing the film, he really didn't believe me when I said, we're going to make this into a movie. He was like, it's meant to be an assignment, I didn't ever see it as anything more than that, what are you talking about? And so a part of me getting him to just believe in himself, we sat down and we wrote our wish list of actors who could possibly play these parts. I said to him, you've got to have these people in your head as you're redrafting it, so that you can visualise them saying those lines. But we didn't think that they would all say yes, and they did, including Helen Mirren. What happens when you have actors who are so, not just extraordinary at their jobs, but really good people, is that they come prepared, they come knowing what the job is, in the sense that we had 35 days, I had seven children also in this film, my son writing for the first time, me directing for the first time, that also meant that we needed to look after one another. And I'm just like that as a person anyway, I like to bring everyone in and make sure that everybody feels seen and acknowledged and included. And that was certainly how I worked with all of these actors, changing the on-set environment a bit so that it didn't really resemble your kind of more commonplace, quite chaotic film set. We didn't have any overhead booms, you can see it in your peripheral vision right now, just in the same way that I can see the one that's above my head. Well as an actor it's almost impossible to tune that out. And it's very, very difficult when you change your mind in a scene about your position, you might be sitting in a chair and you want to get up and go and stand at the window the next minute, but if the boom operator is set for you staying put in that chair, they might be delayed going to that window, and then you feel them wishing that they'd gone there first for you, or you sense that they're trying to do a job alongside you that is challenging for everybody. So I worked very closely with Denise Yard, our fantastic sound designer, and her team to make sure that technically we could always get what we needed, as a technical team, that we could somehow step away and not use overhead boom microphones, so that the actors felt they were in a much, much freer, slightly unusual space without having that above their heads. And for the children, you know, you move a pole above children's heads and they just go like that, and more importantly actually they try and grab it because it looks like a sponge toy. So we didn't have any overhead boom microphones, and for some of the quieter scenes that often involved only two people, we were able to work in a way that I myself have actually never experienced as an actress, and I have dreamt of experiencing it. So we would set our cameras in position once the actors were comfortable with how they wanted the scene to be, and we would lock off the cameras, hit roll, and we would all as a crew walk out of the room and leave them completely alone, and they would sometimes say, where are you going? And I'd say, well you don't need any of us, and we would just leave the space. And they would be completely alone, in a state of reality, without having to feel that sense of being watched. And actually it ended up being incredibly efficient too, because when you work with actors like that, you know, they get to the end of a take, they weren't so sure about it, they just back themselves up and start again without any interruption. So full ownership and total flow of the scene. And it really did make a difference, and I was so proud one day, and happy when Helen Mirren said to me, do you know, I don't think I've ever come across a film set quite like it. And the sound department, they're so invisible, it's really very good. And I remember thinking, my God, how great for her that she was able to be given that experience. You know, she's 80 years old, she's an extraordinary woman, there's absolutely nothing she hasn't heard, or said, or done, or experienced as an actress. And so to have offered her something that made her feel slightly different inside, was really, really meaningful, and contributed to the quietness and the intimacy, and also that feeling of reality that we were trying to create. Film directing is still a very heavily male-dominated industry. What advice would you have for female directors who wish to break into this industry? I mean, I think I'd say to them, probably what I said to myself, which is that there's nothing to fear. You know, you have just as much right to be in those positions, you should be pushing forward, make sure there's opportunity where you feel there isn't, and pursue the dream. Because I'm literally the most unlikely person to be in this position. I came from a tiny town just outside of London, my parents had absolutely no money. We grew up in a two-up, two-down, small, terraced house that's like a sliver of a building. When I took my children, about ten years ago, to visit the home that I grew up in, we parked outside. Because the house is so small, they almost didn't understand what they were looking at. And I just wanted to act, I wanted to pretend to be other characters. I never thought I'd do films, I hoped I might be lucky enough to be on stage one day. And just sometimes having that belief in oneself is more important than anything, especially in a world where it's tough out there, and there are people who want to knock you down, and you will hear negative comments. Somehow, just tuning out that noise, and hanging on to that one thing that you believe you have every right to be able to do, that can sometimes be the single most important thing that gets you through. I think that's great advice, not only for women that want to pursue directing, I think that's great advice for all women. Yeah, for all women in general, yeah. And I think as we get older, you know, it's interesting, I had a text message from a friend of mine the other day, she's 60. And she says to me, I need you to call me, I need you to give me a boost, I feel so invisible. And I was like, okay, well you can stop that right now, you need to promise yourself you're never going to say that again. And I think that women get more interesting as we grow older, I think that we're more involved in life, we have so much more experience. And I turned 50 this year, it feels fantastic, and I'm looking forward to whatever is next to come. What is next for you, and what does success look like for you in this stage of your career? It's such an interesting word, success, isn't it? You know, because I think when we grow up and we think about what we want to be when we're older, I never imagined any of this. And so success actually for me more these days is more about pulling it off, being a decent person, you know, being able to take care of people, having time for friends. Also learning how to be okay with not being busy all the time. And I think the world is an extremely fast-paced place to be. And I think it's important to remind ourselves that sometimes being okay, just in stillness and in our own company, I wish I knew how to meditate, I don't. I've got to learn that sometime. But I myself feel that I'll probably be feeling at my most successful if I'm able to learn that little bit of just be okay with not much going on today. So, yeah, I think my own sort of relationship with success as I'm getting older is just slightly changing, I think, because the world is changing for sure. Well, congratulations once again on Goodbye June. Thank you. Authentic film. Thank you so much. And wonderful to meet you. Thank you so much for coming today. You're welcome. Thanks for having me. Wonderful to meet you. And you. Thank you very, very much.