Why is FRENCH 🇫🇷 WINE so INTIMIDATING???

Why do you think French wine is so intimidating to a lot of people? It's the, I think it's the known unknown in a way. That's a great way to put it. Can you extrapolate on that? If you ask any wine drinker or even a casual wine drinker they will tell you, they know the wines and they can tell you the names of the wines and it makes sense because typically the types are named after places and that's in a way the genus of the French because they have marks to remind people what the types of the wine is but beyond that if you dig a little bit deeper and you ask questions they really don't know the wines and I don't think the market serves them well either because the market typically feeds customers what they know and the whole idea behind offering wines and merchanting is really to expose people to different things that you don't know and make the argument why they should have it. The market spoon feeds people like maybe varietal labeled wines to make it easy and that's... Exactly and what people know already and I've had a great burgundy winemaker here in the shop and he was amazed by the collection that I have and he asked me, he said, do your customers buy these wines? And I said no, I sell it to them. There's a difference, you know, so no seriously I always tell people that there is a difference between a stockist and a merchant. A stockist is a very smart person that puts on the shelf what people would ask for and they're happy and they take it home and end of the story. A merchant is an ancient craft that acquires a certain editorial gesture that you have to take on a subject, you have to know what the subject is and decide what it is worth bringing to your people and hopefully your customers will give you the audience to explain why they should have it. Very Kermit Lynch-like philosophy, another Francophile. You're one of the most knowledgeable people I know amongst a lot of wine people, writers, educators about French wine and I see we have something special to start because when it comes to sparkling wine, people want to emulate champagne but there's only one. It's champagne and everything else for me, right? And then add to that, Matt, is I tell people that at this moment in time, champagne is the most compelling wine that there is because in a way they're victims of their success. I mean of course, you know, we all know that champagne is not cheap and they can sell it all day long but what's out there is really the Big Macs and the Whoppers, the winemakers there and that's a new phenomenon altogether, you know, to just make small batches if you may. They want to show you that champagne is a wine rather than something that sparkles. The wine sparkling, that's just a second bonus but the champagne as a wine, that's what we're after. And you're not going to carry in your shop like the big labels like Moet and they do a great job. But you don't have them here. No, I do a great job and I think I don't want to be redundant to the market. They're available and customers can buy them anywhere. The idea is that I go there, talk to people every day and I do and I bring those people in and it's not easy because there's of course the trade itself that you can't sometimes, you desire a product and maybe it's not available, you cannot get it but ultimately because there's so many people. Matt, there is 5,500 small producers of champagne. Yeah. So there's plenty out there to really dig into and sink the proverbial teeth in and what we're doing today here, I'm going to show you one that is just a gem of a producer. I'm here with Eli of Eli's Wine Company, great shop. You've been in business since what? Since 91? Since 1991. But this location is fairly new, right? Fairly new. I opened the store Eli Wine Company in Royal Oak, Michigan. Yeah. And since day one, I specialized in French wine. So of course, I was telling people, they asked me what I do and I say I only sell French wines and my obituary was written day one. So this is a grower? This is a grower and many growers really, they buy grapes as well. So it's not uncommon. To be a negotiator? To be a negotiator. I mean, champagne is a well-established area. So there are many great vineyards that they sell to the big houses and the co-ops. So they want to tap into that. So the growers will grow some of what they produce but also they will go to their neighbors and work with them in the vineyard and they make the wine. This is, and I like, I saw the label 60% Mornier, which I love Mornier. Yeah, it's fantastic. It's kind of interesting because what I would like to tell you that you know that champagne could be drawn from seven different grape varieties, but what's common is the three, the Pinot Noir and the Mornier and the Chardonnay. I've never seen Arbonne. Arbonne, I know it's the seventh grape. I've never seen anybody with Arbonne. Well, before you leave, I'll show you Arbonne. Okay. This is a Champagne Laerte, and his name is Aurelien Laerte, a small producer and we import him directly to the state of Michigan. He comes from a particular area, one of the several regions of Champagne is called Cote-au-Sud-de-Barnay. And it's really a middle ground between the mountain of Rennes, Montagne de Rennes that is known for Pinot Noir for some of it. Yes. And the other area, which is south of here, which is the Cote de Blanc, which is known for the Chardonnay. So being a middle ground, you have all sorts of grape varieties there, whether it's Pinot Noir, Chardonnay, Mornier, Arbonne, Pinot Gris, Petit Messalier, Pinot Gris, you know, Pinot Blanc, I think we named them all. Somebody told me that they authorize an eighth grade in Champagne. I haven't double checked the reference, but this smells great. This smells like everything I want in Champagne, baked apples. Very explosive, very rich. I get a spit mostly, but I think I'm going to drink the Champagne. Green apple and toast. Customers, when they come in and they're kind of confused about Champagne versus sparkling wine, how do you explain to them what kind of different flavors you're going to get in Champagne versus other sparkling wines? Well, first, I have to explain to them that Champagne is a place and that makes a wine that's called Champagne. And I want to tie the two together because what makes Champagne unique, it's where it comes from and the particular situation they're in, the circumstance, the climate, the soils, and that's what makes it unique and different. And I have to say that that could be said about any other sparkling wine from anywhere, but it's not Champagne and Champagne is not done either. This is done for people that like more of the oxidative style Champagne. I get more dried fruit flavors on this, which I like because they must use a lot of old vintages when they blend this together. Well, they use a reserve that has older vintages, but they also use one vintage predominantly, which is the 18. So you're right, what I smell here is the oxidative, but also I smell the autolytic, you know, the brioche and all that ready, that's totally autolytic. I love the baked bread in Champagne. I want autolytic for people that don't know, that's the baked bread type. How much is this? So this is for $48. You can't get a Vouv now, it's 75 bucks. This blows us out of the water. But it's of course hard to find, but you can find it at Eli's and it comes from a specific area, small producer. Small producer does not guarantee quality by the way, but in the right hands, a small producer has a garden. They don't have a farm. Big producers have farms. I want you to challenge me on this because you're going to disagree with me and I want this. I know grower Champagnes are hot right now. I've always thought when you have a house, like this is great though, but if you have like a house style of grower Champagne, I a lot of times prefer the good big houses because they have a lot of reserve wine. Like I love Bolognese. I think Bolognese is fantastic. Some of the grower Champagnes I have, just they're not autolytic enough. They just taste like fruit. You're probably going to say I'm grower Champagne all day. No, no, no, no, no. I agree with you. Oh, I agree with you. No, no, no. Oh really? I'm not of the thought that the Champagne houses, they don't know what they're beautiful, beautiful, beautiful Champagnes. I think the approach has to be different with the smaller producer. Let's not say grower. Their mission is to be more specific. They tend to capture a particular place. The bigger houses, it's a style, but the style has been earned over many, many years. So they make beautiful, beautiful wine. Idea of you can taste fruit in a small producer's wine. Some of it is by design because, well, that's the whole idea behind capturing a place. You have to have the fresher fruit that hopefully you can age it a little bit longer and age it. It could be a year, two years that it gives you an idea of that sort of fingerprint of that place. So there's a place for both. Okay. There is a place for both. For this palette, though, there's only a place for autolytic Champagne. Go ahead. You're right there. The age. Yeah, no, no, I totally, I totally, people always ask me, what's your favorite wine? And people ask you, Matt, what's your favorite? It's a question of a moment. What's my most, I always ask people, what's your most memorable wine? Or some of the most memorable, not the best. And for me, some of the most memorable wines have been really cheap wines because you're with. It's a question of a moment. And then Matt, I get that every day. People come in here and they say, I was in Paris or I was in the South France and I had this beautiful wine and I typically have it. I typically have it here. And I say, this is the wine, but let me remind you, you're home now. It's different. They don't do anything different when I bring the wines here, but your moment is going to be different. Mark in Paris is different than Mark in Detroit. So there's something to be said about the circumstance. Absolutely. How many different labels do you have? I have 5,500. The first time I came to the shop, I mean, this is a staple of the Detroit Metro area, but I was just blown away. Okay. Let's, let's, let's move. This is great. You got it. So this is Le Herte, a great producer, small production. As I said, we, we import it. We get that literally 60 bottles from him. Oh, that's it. 60 bottles. And this is the base cuvee. It's extra brut. That's all tradition. That's what he calls it. And so from him, we get about 13 or 14 different wines. So we get typically 60 of something, maybe a dozen of something else. It all adds up. Of course, you know, that wine is what you and I get attracted to, like the small producers, small runs. But for the general public, that's what can be frustrating because probably only 60 bottles in Michigan. That's probably it. Right. So to me, I always say that wine is like a treasure hunt. So you should treat it as such. It's, it's, it's fun. It's the process. It's not having the best wine in your glass. It's learning. And I'm of the thought also is that if you like something, move on, try something else. You know, that's the whole idea. It's a journey, you know, it's, it's a journey. And, and if you taste more, you develop benchmarks and that, that, that elevates the wines that you'll taste later. And, you know how it's said, you know, practice, practice, practice, you know, to get there. And speaking of what I like, we're going on the burgundy. So this is a burgundy and it's what's called the regional burgundy, Borgogna. And nowadays it's qualified. So Borgogna, Oak Cote du Bon. Oak Cote du Bon. The high coats, the high hills of the bone. The high hills. And this is really important because one of the things that I do, Matt, when I provide information about the wines to my customers, I want to, I want the information to be relevant. I want them to be immediate. It's for what's going on today. And we have the climate change, of course. And so that's a big challenge for the producers that I deal with. So there are, there are a few things that we do to, to mitigate some of that. And one of them is going to a higher elevation. Can we rinse it? Is that what you're doing? Yeah. Oh, yes. Come on in. Come on in. We have a customer here. I'm going to have to pause it here for a second. I heard you handle a customer. We had to take a little pause. This is former winemaker Dominus. Bought land in Burgundy. Boris Champy. And then he brought, he's originally from Burgundy and he brought this sensibility with him to, to California. And so the Dominus style is very much of, it's all about elegance and finesse and all that good stuff. And they even use more Petit Verdot in their blend, from what I know, to sort of add a little bit more cleanness to the wine. But what he brings to, to, to Burgundy, and this is why I said earlier, I want to be in the current conversation. Things that matter. And the French all together are just as important as anybody else now, if not more, in terms of what to do with, with the vines and to, to, to fight or to adjust to climate change. So what he has done and many people do to mitigate that climate change issue, issue, he went to a higher elevation, which is, that's where the word Oud is. Now, Cote du Bon is an area, and I know in the beginning I said, this is a regional wine. This is really the holy land for the Chardonnay grape. That's where all the greatest Chardonnays in the world come from, or the benchmark Chardonnays, you know, to be less judgmental. And they typically are between 255 meters, 277 meters band. And what he did, he went beyond that. In fact, he puts that on the label, 382 meters above sea level, the vineyards or the land that used to be wet and it doesn't get enough sun. And that's where he has his vines, the Chardonnay, and he makes this wine. Burgundy for reds, of course, red burgundies can be pretty pricey. White burgundies, great value when you talk to Chardonnay. And I, and I know I'm, I'll be quick to say, yes, some of them, the, the, the, the ones that everybody knows and wants, they tend to be expensive, but there's a really, either they're expensive or they're reasonably priced. What does this have? This is for $54. This reminds me a lot of the real high quality Chardonnays from the Jura. From the Jura. Yeah. I don't know why. It's got the, it's got the yeastiness on the nose in a good way. It's flinty. It has a little bit of chablis-ness. I mean, I know it's bone. I'm just putting together associations. This could be because of the elevation too. I mean, the Jura area is a higher elevation in the Alp area. So that could be part of the reason. That is killer. I used to think you're going to love this. You're going to be, this is going to make you so happy as a Francofield. For a while, I thought that white Burgundy was the most overrated style in the world. Why? Because I thought I'd been tricked in a lot of blind tastings by great Chardonnay from all over the world. Yum. But then lately, this last year, I've been tasting a lot of older white Burgundy and then I'm like, I get it. I get it. That's why white Burgundy is white Burgundy. They really... This mineral hit is, man, this is a heck of a wine. I just saw you interact with a customer who was a part of your champagne club. And then you let him taste this. He's like, oh, I want a few bottles. You don't have to know a lot about wine. Just go to a great shop from somebody you trust and ask for recommendations, right? That's probably everything you do. Absolutely. In fact, when people come in, people that come from other states or other places in and I tell them that for every day, go to the local shop, get more for your money. Talk to the buyer of the wine for the place and why they bought the wine for the place. Why are they offering the wine? Do it there. And by extension, incidentally, for me here, I tell them that my business is not about generating a sale. It's about cultivating a customer. So that's very important with that. There's a process. You know, it's a first time buyer. Sometimes I say, don't buy anything from me. Let me know your taste. I'll ask you a question because that's how I know what you like and your reference points. And let's develop our own reference points together and we can see how we can go from here. There's so few wine merchants like you, though. To be sure, Matt, that's not a way to build an empire. That's not how Amazon was built. But I'm happy because the customers, the people that I deal with, that they come here, they want to know, they're curious, they're secure, that they don't know something, they would ask questions. And I think that's an important thing for what I do, for really any other small business like mine. That is a heck of a wine. Our choices of wines, each one of them, and we're going to taste some more, they reflect different ways of thinking, not on their part, but on my part. What is it that animates the place? The champagne was an example of a small producer that focused on elevating the product that everybody knows to a different level. I'm not going to say higher level, a different level and a different way to look at it. They come to it from a different angle. It's the idea that the place matters, the soil matters. The second producer for the white wine, it's a wine that somebody is dealing with climate change. They all deal with climate change. But he started a vineyard because it's a newly put together vineyard to mitigate some of those issues. The third one here, it comes from the Loire Valley. This is somebody that uses an indigenous grape variety. Pinot Donis, right? Pinot Donis. Last year on my trip to Loire, just give me a little bit and I'll rinse it, is the first time I tried Pinot Donis. I was really impressed. It's such a weird grape, right? It's like light, but it's got tannins. It's such a weird grape in a good way. I tell people that Pinot Donis was the infanterrible of the vines. A lot of people just didn't want to deal with it, but now it has been picked up again by a new generation. It's like wild raspberry. You could confuse this on the nose with some kind of minimal intervention Pinot Noir, like just wild raspberry flavors and flowers and crushed violets and a little bit of funkiness in a good way. This comes from an area on top of the Loire River that the whole Appalachian is literally 190 acres. There's something like 11 producers. They make these wines. And he's one of them. Oh, it's 20% Cote, 20% Malbec, but mostly Pinot Donis. How much is this? So this is for $33. This is so fun. People, when they think of French wine, they just think of the first gross, maybe the second gross. Maybe you think of a Chateau Pommave, but look at what you can get in France. There's an incredible variety of wines and types of wines in France. And they all translate different issues. The first gross and those are beautiful wines. And the prices are not cheap either. But that said, that's their story. And that's what they make. And it has been in the making for 500, 600 years. This is more of the new generation. And therein lies the beauty of the French wine. There is an old story and there is a new story being made. I love the younger generation in France, like making stuff like this. It still has character. It's not sterile. I spent a lot of time in Italy. And Italy was my first love with fine wine. But every time I go to France, because I go every year, the real you in, especially with the cheese, the fromage. Oh God, God, you're killing me. No, and that's, I mean, you know, for a great wine to exist, there has to be great cuisine. Do you get frustrated with people wanting to come in and just wanting like, just wanting love or just wanting more, or just wanting the big, the big high end? No, no, I'm never frustrated. It's really an opportunity. Truly, I look at it as an opportunity because they're coming in to me. They're drinking. First, they drink wine. Yeah. And second, they pay attention to something that's specific. It's called champagne. Yeah. And then after that, it's a conversation. And sometimes we may arrive at a point where I say, I'm not your person. I totally understand why you want to buy that bottle. And here's where you can find it. But please come back and let's continue this conversation. So no, it's not frustrating. The frustrating part of it is that I'm not taking the money to the bank. But that said, no, it's an opportunity to engage the customer. I've noticed about you, you're quietly confident and you really enjoy talking to people. Sometimes it can drain. Depending on personality, you can drain a person. But you really love it. I thrive on that. And I think, but in a way, it's a dialogue. Yeah. I mean, of course, I enjoy talking, but I also want to listen to people. I want to see what they have to say and what they say. And my customers are smart. No, I know. I noticed the times I've been in here. They're curious. They're going to listen to you. And they bring a lot of information that maybe it makes me think about what I'm looking at too. Okay. Yeah. Let's try this next one. I'm fond of saying that I'm not a human being. I'm a human becoming. So the idea that we can change. So that's the Pinot Donné. That's the use of an indigenous grape variety. In the Loire Valley from an area that's very, very small by young people. Redefining not only what they use, which is allowed in the typicity, but the approach altogether. We tasted this at your house during one of the tastings a couple of weeks ago. That's it. And I remember we actually, we were done with the tasting. I think we drank the bottle because it was so good. This is, yeah. And this is for $26. A Fleury for $26. $26, yeah. A Crue Beaujolais, I tell people. Man, Beaujolais is funny because there was a couple of years where the sums were pushing it and the prices were going up. But I feel like the market softened. I don't know. You're in the biz. I shouldn't be asking you. Has the market softened on them? Are they still in? No, no, Matt. It hasn't softened, but I also, maybe I'm an optimist. But having a higher price is not a bad thing. No, no. Because it creates coattails. Yeah. You know, so there are many people that come in and make wines and fill the gap. And that allows us to look at different points of view. Well, it's weird for me as like when you're in the business, you're different. You're a merchant. As a consumer, you want to get the best wine for money. But also, I know the producers have spent time with them. You want them to make money because wine's not a high margin product. So tell me about Fleury. I mean, it's a crew that I like a lot, but I probably don't know as well as Morgon. So Fleury is completely different than Morgon. Here, what you have, a wine that's typically very floral, very extroverted. But also, the style here, this is Claude Demez, which is a small producer, LOD, her name, the woman that makes it. She uses both styles. The style that is meant to be for current consumption, the more carbonic macerated, and this is slightly carbonic macerated. And the Burgundian model, which can age. This is more of the Pinot. Yeah, Pinot. Her approach is Pinot. Talking to LOD, she tells the story. How she tried a 1918 Morgon at Clos Bourgeois, and how it was magnificent, and it has become more Pinot-like. So for those of you who don't know Fleury, one of the 10 crews of Beaujolais, based on the grape Gamay, I always get frustrated when people say, oh, I've tried Beaujolais, I just can't get into it. I was like, you could probably try and just Beaujolais, Beaujolais Nouveau, maybe some cheap Beaujolais Village, go to a merchant, take 26 bucks, you can't get good Pinot Noir for under 50 these days. And it's so joyous. The wine is so joyous and exuberant. Every time I drink a Beaujolais, all I can think of is Alan Greenspan. Remember, Matt, his irrational exuberance? Yep, yes. But it's full of joy because it's very pretty and very deep. And it's great food wine. Great food wine. And in fact, that's the most consumed wine in Lyon, which is a gastronomical center for France. I mean, the food in Lyon. Yeah, it's amazing, yeah. On the nose, just to smell a little Pinot, on the palate, it is Beaujolais. It's Fleury for me. It's very flowery, very light red fruits. I don't know if people might sound like Pinot Noir, but it doesn't. It doesn't taste like Pinot Noir. No, no, it's completely different. No, but your point is valid, which is you smell and there's other set of aromatics in the mouth that still tells you the wine is Fleury. But the finish on it, good Cru Beaujolais have mineral flavors, right? It's not just those cheaper Beaujolais or Beaujols are just bubblegum and fruit. This has real terroir, minerality, really floral notes. It's absolutely, when it leaves your mouth, it feels like it's anchored in some place. All the wines you showed me are fantastic. This is no-brainer, $26. That's insane. I think it's one of the wines that people should be looking at, among many other great producers. Obviously, you have so many wines that you can point people to. Are you a big Beaujolais guy? Are you really recommend it hard to a lot of people? Matt, I like good wine. That could happen in Beaujolais and bad wines could happen in Beaujolais. It could happen anywhere else. And what we're doing today, that's an example of what I think is good wine. I think ultimately, a drinking wine is a moment. And that moment also, we said earlier that you have to, you're part of that moment, how you feel and what you think. But also, the wine itself, the keys to the kingdom, that's wine, it's balance. You've never given me a bad wine to try. And all the wines that you let me taste, as I've known you the last couple of months, have all been balanced. They have all been balanced. Not too tannic, not too acidic, not too sour, not too all fruit, not too just mineral. I think that's the key issue when I recommend a wine. I have people come in the store here and I say, you're going to hate 90% of what I have in the shop. Not because they're bad wines. It's just because I know there are the moments that they're not balanced. I mean, you and I know that water is balanced because there is nothing in it. Yeah. But the more complicated wines or complex wines, there's more to them and the more there's in a wine that typically it's easy for it to be off balance. It just doesn't seem like your style from what I've tasted from you. Are you a Bordeaux guy? Because Bordeaux, especially the modern Bordeaux's can be pretty big, can be almost Californian. It could be. And there's a younger generation, even in the big houses, Matt, there's younger generation, they're seeking more of elegance and finesse and all that. That's just the zeitgeist of the time. It just doesn't seem to me like you would, if you're going to drink, it doesn't seem to me like you just grab a Bordeaux, you grab something else. And I could, and I could, and I do. And again, going back to the issue of balance. And that's something that I struggle with because some of those wines are really meant as they want you to think, meant for aging. It's not for to achieve that profundity. You have to wait for years. But like everybody else, I grabbed two hard wines that give me pleasure for the moment. So there's nothing wrong with just mere pleasure in a sense. So when those wines are sometimes delivered, if they have the right balance. I love what you said. There's complex wines and there's wines like these two. It's for the moment. And I want to drink. I want some complexity. I don't want to have to think too much. I want to enjoy myself. This is the hedonistic side where some of this is, it's more searching beyond that. That's fantastic. We're going to move to the south of France here. And one of my favorite regions in France, maybe in Europe, to be honest. Yeah, the Terrasse de l'Arzac. Terrasse de l'Arzac and the Languedoc. And you have been there many times. Oh, I've been there a couple of times. Syrah is king there. Well, GSM, but Syrah is really what's... Yeah, some of the expression there of Syrah. But so Terrasse de l'Arzac, it's a new delineation in the Languedoc area as of the past 15 years. Like 2006, I think it was. Something like that, yeah. I don't know off the top of my head, but... But so it's a newly coined appellation out of the Languedoc area. And I met him. He's the president of the... The association, Falun and his wife. And so the Terrasse de l'Arzac is first among equals in the south there. There's about 70 or 80 producers. 38 Syrah, 30% Cavignan, one of my favorite grapes, 30% Grenache. And I hardly see Terrasse de l'Arzac in the U.S. Nobody has... It's not very easily found. But then, as you pointed out, they make beautiful wines. And not only that, because it is a larger area, Matt. And this comes from an area that is closer to the Massif Central mountains. And they have a particular kind of soil that's more volcanic, if you may. This is everything I expect of Terrasse de l'Arzac. You get the Syrah, but they get the Cavignan, that wild savageness. They could get with Petit Verdot sometimes. But man, the blackberries, like the pepper. Terrasse de l'Arzac, to me, can act more northern Rome than southern Rome. Even though it's closer to southern Rome. It makes sense because of the elevation. Got it. The climate is more continental. And that's what you get in the northern Rome. And there is, to your point, the architecture of the wine, if you may. It has more tension to it that you get out of the northern Rome. You don't get that out of the southern Rome, like Chateauneuf-du-Pape in Juventus. But you get it out of the Syrah-based in the northern Rome. I'm biased because I love Terrasse de l'Arzac. And I have tasted some wines from this producer before. But this wine's kind of given me chills. Because I love that Terrasse de l'Arzac, you don't get the real hard tannins that sometimes you can get in the Languedoc. They're chewy, but they're not ripping your face off. No, they're not. They're not. And that's partially because of their style of winemaking. And partially because of what the food comes across as. How much is this? So that's for $29. That has got enough fruit for everybody. But it's got so much complexity and uniqueness for connoisseurs, or more evolved palates, I guess, so to speak. It doesn't matter what you like. But $29. I mean, Chateauneufs are going through the roof. I know Chateauneuf really well. Going through the roof. $29 you get. And then the point that even if somebody's not a connoisseur, it gets your attention. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, sometimes certain wines, they stop you in your tracks. And this is one of them, because it has a presence to it. I'm quite... Because honestly, it's not like I would give... If I was scoring crates, I'm like $95. But it's just a moving wine. I like Terrasse de l'Arzac. It's delicious. It's really a moving wine. Maybe I'm here in this great shop. It's really nice. I was really impressed. Sancerre Rouge. So Sancerre Rouge, if you ask anybody, even people that have been drinking wine for a long time, they would tell you that Sancerre has only one duty is to be white. No, it's not true. So there's red and there's rosé as well. And of course, because of the climate change again, you know, the Pinot Noir, what used to be a bit more fickle, now is all blown. That's amazing wine. Sancerre Rouge is Pinot Noir. It's not Cabernet Franc, even though it's from the Loire. The eastern reaches Loire. I think Domaine Vache, it's a well-known name. It's the only Sancerre Rouge I've seen in America. This is like... This smells... It's a single vineyard, right? That's a single vineyard, $38. This smells... I haven't tasted yet. Not gonna get crazy. This tastes... This has a Côte de Nuit smell to me. Because it's red, but going to darker fruit. The darker fruit, you know, slightly more terranian. But it's on... This is like real old world Pinot. I might drink this. This is really gorgeous, man. So this is, again, you know, young people, new generation. Stéphane Riffaut, he's a winemaker. That his approach is a little bit different. Very methodical, and it's all about precision. And you see that in the wine. In fact, there is a French rag, well-respected, La Revue des Vins de France, named him Le Metronome. Well, he's just ticking away, like consistently. And so his winemaking style here is Burgundian. So Sancerre is not far away from Burgundy, really. I mean, technically, probably Chablis should be part of Sancerre, actually. Because it's closer than... It gets closer. It's really close. This is $38. What do people say when you... I mean, people, you really know your stock and what you're coming in. So that's how you build the store, right? You give great recommendations to people. Like, oh my god, this was great. $38, better than what I'm spending for Burgundy coming back. No, absolutely. And incidentally, this is maybe a moment where I can share with you, which is, there's no secret, how I source wine. I keep my ears to the ground in France. So I really know what I want to have. And it's an ongoing conversation. So I talk to people there just about every day. And I know what's going on, reading, talking to people. And I try to find who sells it. They typically have importers in the US. That maybe they have it exclusive. So I try to seek those importers to bring it in. And therein lies the challenge to bring them to the state. Because of course, we have a set of distributors. And they have products they would like to sell, and rightfully so. They need to sell what they buy. So how can Eli have a particular selection that reflects what I want, rather than the vagary of the market itself. You know, that's what everybody cares, therefore I'm going to buy it. But it took me, it was since 1991, to build this kind of portfolio. So you've been open for over 30 years now. For over 30 years. Somebody coming in doesn't know anything about French wine. Like comes into a shop like yours, or just a shop in general. What are the key questions you would tell them to ask, to try to pick out a good bottle. Or any tips. Just any tips. So they come in, and mostly the reference point is California. What's typically out there. Well first, I mean, I always think that a question deserves a question. So when they ask questions, I need to ask questions to find out. Never trust words, because there are different reference points for words. So I ask them about what experience they've had. What wines they have had, that they like. And after that, I, and this is always matters that challenge. How I can take them from the mindset of the grape variety to the type. And so, you know, typically people would tell you they like Cabernet. They like Pinot Noir. They like Merlot. Which is fine. And those are really reference points for a place that's called Bordeaux. But that's not the conversation that I'm going to have with them in the beginning. And so sometimes it's the shock treatment. You say, well, there is no type of wine called Cabernet Sauvignon. There is no type called Merlot. It's like somebody asking the question, what kind of cuisine do you like? And you say, I like chicken. Well, is it Thai chicken or is it Szechuan chicken? Exactly. So, and if we can agree, well, it's not the chicken that matters. And of course, you can identify the chicken in the dish. So now we can talk about the type. We can talk about the type. We can talk about the Szechuan. And everything out there is really a mirror of what the French do. Whether if it's Cabernet Merlot, Cabernet Blanc, it's a Bordeaux. Pinot Noir, Sperg and the Loire Valley. And the list goes on. So if I can get them into that mindset, I can recommend wine for them. But the issue is always the issue of balance. The issue of balance. And of course, I have many people that come in for the first time and they want to know more. They want to know more. And I can tell them that what I can do for them is three things. I can give them the right mindset. What is it that matters in wine? There's the fog of marketing. And I'm guilty of it just like everybody else. So how can we get to what matters? It's the farm that matters. And the second is how to unpack a wine. How to take it apart. I mean, if I go to another beverage, I don't know how to take it apart. So somebody has to tell me what I should be looking for. I start looking for different issues. So how to unpack a wine. So that's the second. The third where the French come in. To give you the type is attached to a place. When we go to Burgundy, it's all made from Pinot Noir. But there are hundreds and hundreds of types. And those types serve as an exquisite filing system for the information. There are labels. Instead of tasting a Pinot Noir, you're tasting a Pinot Noir from Nuit Saint Georges. Now you attach that label to it. Now you remember. And so at the end of it, I consider it a triumph. And I tell them that they're somewhere else. It could be another wine shop. It could be a restaurant. They know what they're doing because they learned it. I love that you don't oversimplify wine. There's a lot of movement in wine education to simplify everything. And that's a difficult balance. I don't know. Where do you stand on that? Your newsletter is great. It's packed full of information. What you're talking about. The farm's important. The producer's important. The place is important. Well, at the core of it, Matt, I think customers, people are smart. And if I dumb it down, it does not do them service. I am all for explaining the best that I can do. And if they don't understand it, incidentally, I tell them because I did not do a good job explaining it. So I explain it the best I can. Throw at them as much information as I can. You've seen the newsletter. They're very long. And it's against any kind of marketing advice that I've received. But people read them and they go back to them. And you have fun writing them. I can tell. It's only because the subject is fun. Yeah. The subject is engaging. And wine is one of the things in life that many things lead to. It's the confluence of many things. You can talk about it in geography, geology, chemistry, culturally. There are many things that lead to wine. It just happens that Eli stacks it in a way that makes sense to me. And it makes sense to my customers. Somebody else somewhere else, they can stack it differently. And they're to be lauded for that. Because that's the genius of what wine is. That lends itself to different interpretations and different conversations. So I think it's best to be true to yourself. And just explain the best way you can. And what you know. You want to share it with people in an earnest way. And in a fun way. And hopefully, they will walk away from it with something. Otherwise, it's my failure if they don't. I'm going to put your website in the description box. You need to sign up for his newsletter. Because it's amazing. Thank you so much. And I hope we will do another one of these. Because you were great. Thank you. Merci.